CelticsStrong
Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: KG Living Legend on November 10, 2018, 03:11:39 AM
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Love Horford. Perfect Team guy. Cold truth is this. He's 32 years old. He's post prime now. Prime ended at 27 years old for Big Al.
He's a 12 ppg 6rpg big that's a great passer that plays by himself most of the time as far as bigs go. This reminds me of having nothing behind Kevin Garnett. This current team has more depth but Baynes is limited.
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Yes. Horford is great. Not about too old or his production. He just needs more help.
Like Duncan did back in 2009/2010 when they were starting McDyess and then DeJuan Blair. They were just not offering enough support in interior defense & rebounding. Duncan needed a bit more help to deal with bigger teams. Then they brought in Tiago Splitter and the balance of the team worked much better.
Baynes was that player for the Celtics last season. He can be that player again this season.
But one of those 3 SFs (Hayward, Jaylen, Tatum) will need to become a 6th man.
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Yes and no....
Our offense is predicated on giving everyone a slice of the pie but the majority goes through Kyrie...
If anything to gripe on... Its the lack of production coming from Hayward is my concern.. He has been abysmal and paltry compared to his talent.. The guy is ave 8 ppg for someone even coming from injury that is waaaay too low.
GH should be in the 14 ppg by now... Lofty expectations well think again, PG13 came back from the same gruesome injury but was actually way better in terms of performance in his return and didn't miss a beat.... Hayward is the exact opposite... Too passive and more concerned about playmaking which he has been okyish but we need his offense which I may say is very much a concern.
Am I too hard on the guy.. Pobably but look at Kyrie, he already has dusted his post injury layoff and has been astounding... Id probably give Hayward another month or so but honestly if his production stays in the 10-13 ppg this season, id be very very concern. The Cs gave up a max contract to Hayward, he really ought to be producing much better than what he is providing right now.
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Yes and no....
Our offense is predicated on giving everyone a slice of the pie but the majority goes through Kyrie...
If anything to gripe on... Its the lack of production coming from Hayward is my concern.. He has been abysmal and paltry compared to his talent.. The guy is ave 8 ppg for someone even coming from injury that is waaaay too low.
GH should be in the 14 ppg by now... Lofty expectations well think again, PG13 came back from the same gruesome injury but was actually way better in terms of performance in his return and didn't miss a beat.... Hayward is the exact opposite... Too passive and more concerned about playmaking which he has been okyish but we need his offense which I may say is very much a concern.
Am I too hard on the guy.. Pobably but look at Kyrie, he already has dusted his post injury layoff and has been astounding... Id probably give Hayward another month or so but honestly if his production stays in the 10-13 ppg this season, id be very very concern. The Cs gave up a max contract to Hayward, he really ought to be producing much better than what he is providing right now.
Uh, Paul George averaged 8.8 ppg in his first 6 games back. he then had the off season to further get better, but he got the gitters out in that 6 games. He was also the focal point of the Pacers offense and was allowed to just shoot at will and he had a lot of bad games. Hayward needs some more time, but he also isn't being done any favors by being on such a good deep team. He just isn't getting the touches he needs to work the kinks out.
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I think we need to have daily shooting drills because whatever the reason shots are not falling and it is killing us.
We are shooting .429 from the field. 27th in the league.
https://www.teamrankings.com/nba/stat/shooting-pct
We are 14th in three point percentage
https://www.teamrankings.com/nba/stat/three-point-pct
Effective Field Goal % we are 22nd
https://www.teamrankings.com/nba/stat/effective-field-goal-pct
NBA Team True Shooting % we are 23rd
https://www.teamrankings.com/nba/stat/true-shooting-percentage
Right now we are struggling to make a two with a pencil we are shooting so bad.
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I just think we need a center to gobble up the rebounds. Gobert killed us yesterday in the post. It's time for Ainge to start thinking "BIG"
Acquiring a really good center is hard because they're hard to come by, but that's what we need.
I think the shots will start falling, but if they don't, we need a big man to put them back in.
Also, Stevens needs to start thinking about changing up that starting lineup. It's time for guys to start proving themselves, otherwise ride the pine until your name is called.
It's still very early, but for a championship team, this kind of play is unacceptable. We shouldn't be losing to teams like Indy and Utah and going to overtime with Phoenix.
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No.
the last few champs Cavs and Warrior won it all without rim protection or huge production from their "bigs".....at least not in the scoring department.
We need more points in the paint and more free-throws. We need more commitment to try driving the ball to the basket. 3s are fine, but we need to mix-it-up with points in the paint. Backcuts, drive, postups....whatever it takes
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Brad doesn't play his bigs. It is hard to produce when you are sitting on the bench.
We got killed inside last night while Baynes and Williams sat on the bench. It drives me crazy.
The Jazz got 17 more rebounds than we did. I would have played Williams, unless his knees are bad.
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We could use a center that has size and length and can get off of the floor. Al is beginning to look old to me, not all the time mind you...but more so in extended minutes.
While Baynes is a hulking guy, but he is slow off the floor when he does react. His strong suit is using his body.
We were killed inside against Utah.
When you add this defensive flaw in with our poor outside shooting and play in general, yeah an additional defensive minded center couldn't hurt at all.
Also...We're not the Golden State Warriors talent wise, no one is. We don't have the best player in the game like Cleveland did either. We need a different pallet of talent than other teams.
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Brad doesn't play his bigs. It is hard to produce when you are sitting on the bench.
We got killed inside last night while Baynes and Williams sat on the bench. It drives me crazy.
The Jazz got 17 more rebounds than we did. I would have played Williams, unless his knees are bad.
AND this is also very true. ^
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We could use a center that has size and length and can get off of the floor. Al is beginning to look old to me, not all the time mind you...but more so in extended minutes.
While Baynes is a hulking guy, but he is slow off the floor when he does react. His strong suit is using his body.
We were killed inside against Utah.
When you add this defensive flaw in with our poor outside shooting and play in general, yeah an additional defensive minded center couldn't hurt at all.
Also...We're not the Golden State Warriors talent wise, no one is. We don't have the best player in the game like Cleveland did either. We need a different pallet of talent than other teams.
We have a center with size and length who can get off the floor....Williams.
Unless he is injured, play him! Plenty of rookies are helping their teams now.
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This is fine compared to Olynyk Amir Johnson Zeller days :P
Theis is hurt again, but when healthy they aren’t the main problem... maybe when Horford ages more it’ll be a yes
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We could use a center that has size and length and can get off of the floor. Al is beginning to look old to me, not all the time mind you...but more so in extended minutes.
While Baynes is a hulking guy, but he is slow off the floor when he does react. His strong suit is using his body.
We were killed inside against Utah.
When you add this defensive flaw in with our poor outside shooting and play in general, yeah an additional defensive minded center couldn't hurt at all.
Also...We're not the Golden State Warriors talent wise, no one is. We don't have the best player in the game like Cleveland did either. We need a different pallet of talent than other teams.
We have a center with size and length who can get off the floor....Williams.
Unless he is injured, play him! Plenty of rookies are helping their teams now.
What that old saying, "you're preaching to the choir." lol.
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I don't believe in the concept of earning minutes. I believe in giving trust to your talented players and letting them make mistakes as long as they give effort and play with the right mindset. You learn most from your mistakes. And like Chris22 said, there are a lot of rookies getting regular minutes, why not Williams? (Especially now that Theis is out!!!)
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The issue isn't with the personnel, it's with the rotation.
Horford is best utilized as a C/F hybrid. Sometimes you start him at F next to Baynes. Sometimes you start him at C next to a big wing. The goal is to always have him going against the more advantageous matchup.
The issue is Horford isn't being used this way, like he has in the past, and the 'big wing' next to Horford has been Tatum/Hayward. One of them needs to come off the bench and have Morris start as the 'big wing'.
The team should go back to what was working last year in terms of the starting rotation. Yes, that means one of Tatum or Hayward need to become the '6th man'. It might be good for Hayward to get more minutes as the featured option against reserves. And it's probably best for both to split their minutes up as much as possible.
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Brad doesn't play his bigs. It is hard to produce when you are sitting on the bench.
We got killed inside last night while Baynes and Williams sat on the bench. It drives me crazy.
The Jazz got 17 more rebounds than we did. I would have played Williams, unless his knees are bad.
I think the problem is that Baynes and Williams are not that good (or in the case of Williams not that good yet). That is why he is not playing them. And yes, I think that is our problem. We need more skill at PF and C.
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Love Horford. Perfect Team guy.
Agreed!
Cold truth is this. He's 32 years old. He's post prime now. Prime ended at 27 years old for Big Al.
I’d say that his game is aging well, and that the last two seasons he has contributed as much to winning as he ever has. Having said that, he’s undoubtedly had a slow start - and I’m confident that it IS a slow start, since he finished last year so strong and hasn’t had to deal with injuries or procedures this year.
He's a 12 ppg 6rpg big
Beware of per-game stats. Boston plays slow and Horford is under 30 minutes. Having said that, he’s defensive-rebounding worse than Rozier.
Is Lack of Bigs Production the real problem
No. There is no single “real problem”.
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Love Horford. Perfect Team guy.
Agreed!
Cold truth is this. He's 32 years old. He's post prime now. Prime ended at 27 years old for Big Al.
I’d say that his game is aging well, and that the last two seasons he has contributed as much to winning as he ever has. Having said that, he’s undoubtedly had a slow start - and I’m confident that it IS a slow start, since he finished last year so strong and hasn’t had to deal with injuries or procedures this year.
He's a 12 ppg 6rpg big
Beware of per-game stats. Boston plays slow and Horford is under 30 minutes. Having said that, he’s defensive-rebounding worse than Rozier.
Is Lack of Bigs Production the real problem
No. There is no single “real problem”.
TP Vermont Green and Hoop.
His game is again well but not his rebounding peak was 26 years old and has been down every year since. Not picking on the guy it's his weakness as an aging star.
That said we need a Dominant young big man in his prime that can gobble up 10 boards a night and play perimeter defense as well.
We hope it's What about Bob. But we have to get an NBA ready version ASAP. He has to be good enough that Stevens has to play him 25 plus minutes.
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I see the problems being many and not just one but here they are, in no particular order:
- Cold shooting. They lead the league in wide open shots but have completed a horrid percentage of those shots. The offense is creating the opportunities but just not making them.
- Lack of offensive balance. The team needs to drive with a purpose to finish at the rim rather than just kick out for a three pointer. Just way too many three pointers. This is easily remedied with more pick and roll offense, especially with Horford or Baynes running to the rim. Theis is great at this. He has been missed.
- Lack of cohesion with the starters. Clearly everyone hasn't figured out their role yet and that is compounded with Hayward being far from the player he used to be. Tatum is not a PF and has transformed his game for the worse with mid range iso ball. Brown started in an awful slump and Kyrie seems to be hesitant, until recently, of being the alpha man on offense.
- Lack of scoring off the bench except for Morris. Theis was having a good year until getting hurt but other than he and Morris, not one player on the bench is shooting well or giving the team any type of consistent scoring.
- Lack of a player that can play defense against the bigger more talented centers in the league. They need someone who can take on the Jokics, Goberts, Embiids, etc. in the league. That may be Robert Williams in two years but it isn't now and Horford has not been able to contain those bigger talented centers in the NBA.
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I see the problems being many and not just one but here they are, in no particular order:
- Cold shooting. They lead the league in wide open shots but have completed a horrid percentage of those shots. The offense is creating the opportunities but just not making them.
- Lack of offensive balance. The team needs to drive with a purpose to finish at the rim rather than just kick out for a three pointer. Just way too many three pointers. This is easily remedied with more pick and roll offense, especially with Horford or Baynes running to the rim. Theis is great at this. He has been missed.
- Lack of cohesion with the starters. Clearly everyone hasn't figured out their role yet and that is compounded with Hayward being far from the player he used to be. Tatum is not a PF and has transformed his game for the worse with mid range iso ball. Brown started in an awful slump and Kyrie seems to be hesitant, until recently, of being the alpha man on offense.
- Lack of scoring off the bench except for Morris. Theis was having a good year until getting hurt but other than he and Morris, not one player on the bench is shooting well or giving the team any type of consistent scoring.
- Lack of a player that can play defense against the bigger more talented centers in the league. They need someone who can take on the Jokics, Goberts, Embiids, etc. in the league. That may be Robert Williams in two years but it isn't now and Horford has not been able to contain those bigger talented centers in the NBA.
I would add rebounding to that list. That is where I think swapping one of the SFs (Tatum, Hayward, Jaylen) for a 2nd big man in the starting lineup would help the most.
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right now we are a average team..
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Give Baynes more time by starting him but please for the love of god have him stop shooting those threes with that increasingly ugly shot of his.
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I see the problems being many and not just one but here they are, in no particular order:
- Cold shooting. They lead the league in wide open shots but have completed a horrid percentage of those shots. The offense is creating the opportunities but just not making them.
- Lack of offensive balance. The team needs to drive with a purpose to finish at the rim rather than just kick out for a three pointer. Just way too many three pointers. This is easily remedied with more pick and roll offense, especially with Horford or Baynes running to the rim. Theis is great at this. He has been missed.
- Lack of cohesion with the starters. Clearly everyone hasn't figured out their role yet and that is compounded with Hayward being far from the player he used to be. Tatum is not a PF and has transformed his game for the worse with mid range iso ball. Brown started in an awful slump and Kyrie seems to be hesitant, until recently, of being the alpha man on offense.
- Lack of scoring off the bench except for Morris. Theis was having a good year until getting hurt but other than he and Morris, not one player on the bench is shooting well or giving the team any type of consistent scoring.
- Lack of a player that can play defense against the bigger more talented centers in the league. They need someone who can take on the Jokics, Goberts, Embiids, etc. in the league. That may be Robert Williams in two years but it isn't now and Horford has not been able to contain those bigger talented centers in the NBA.
I would add rebounding to that list. That is where I think swapping one of the SFs (Tatum, Hayward, Jaylen) for a 2nd big man in the starting lineup would help the most.
I think it’s time to go back to the Baynes Horford starting combo that worked so well last year. Horford can get his minutes at center still but mix it up more. Maybe by not starting 3 wings they don’t be as tentative, and be more aggressive.
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I think Horford and Baynes need a side kick. I feel like we play too small for too long. A 3rd big would give us more rebounding and more interior defense. Our tandem of 2 just doesnt get it done when one is a bruiser and one plays outside the paint or on the perimeter.
Our rookie might be that guy. We never found out if Theis was because he is hurt, My guess is he is not.
Last year we ran more and in lushing the pace we attacked the rim. This is our only other option IMO with the current roster.
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Biggest problems statistically have been Brown, who has been brutal, and Hayward, who has been below average. As a team, we've slipped a bit offensively, but our ratings overall aren't that different than last year's. I think time is probably the best solution.
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I’m pretty sure Horford is pacing himself and that they are monitoring his workload. Last year, he cane out like a gang buster. This year he seems not as aggressive so far.
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Horford brings it in the playoffs... feels like there have always been complaints about his performance in the regular season since he joined BOS...
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The whole premise of this thread is false, another big is not going to suddenly make shots fall, which is our real problem.
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Absolutely not. Horford is our only good big. Gobert killed us. Add to that Horford inside game is sub par compared to Prime Al.
. We need a big man that can score and rebound.
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I think Horford and Baynes need a side kick. I feel like we play too small for too long. A 3rd big would give us more rebounding and more interior defense. Our tandem of 2 just doesnt get it done when one is a bruiser and one plays outside the paint or on the perimeter.
Our rookie might be that guy. We never found out if Theis was because he is hurt, My guess is he is not.
Last year we ran more and in lushing the pace we attacked the rim. This is our only other option IMO with the current roster.