2013 CB Draft Finals: Minnesota(1) vs Cleveland(3)

[indeedproceed]

This is another one of my ready to go rebuttals:

"I don't know how many Thunder games you watched, but I can say with confidence that Serge Ibaka cannot be the second best player on the floor and still have Minnesota walk away with the title here."

See what I did there?

But no seriously, major misgivings about Minnesota's roster. Not necessarily the talent level, but the demands on particular players. If only KG was 3 years younger, or Gerald Wallace less cooked than a pot roast on a Sunday, I'd buy Cleveland without qualms. At this point for me personally I'm just totally lacking in choice I feel like a clear winner. 

[dark_lord]

voting is unique and a personal thing to each voter, in any circumstance (politics, cb draft, etc.).  everyone is different in what they value, what they foresee, and how they interpret things.  being told a voter is wrong, uninformed, or anything else that is being implied is just wrong imo.  this is a hypothetical exercise where voting takes place.  no one's vote is more valued or more important than the next person.  if someone does not agree with someone's analysis, interprets things differently, or projects different outcomes....they aren't wrong, misinformed, a sheep, or anything else....they have a difference of opinion, plain and simple..

[nickagneta]

Minnesota rebounding based on Minnesota's posted lineups...top 5 forwards/centers playing

Lebron 8 rpg  13.1 TRB%
Ibaka  7.7 rpg  14.2 TRB%
Jordan 7.2 rPG  17.6 TRB
Davis  7.2 rpg  13.1 TRB%
Battier 2.3 rpg  5.7 TRB%

Cleveland rebounding based on Cleveland's posted lineups...top 5 forawrds/centers playing

Horford  10.2 rpg 15.7 TRB%
Garnett   7.8 rpg 15.5 TRB%
Landry    6.0 rpg 14.3 TRB%
Wallace   4.6 rpg 9.1 TRB%
Mozgov    2.6 rpg 16.4 TRB%

To the eye this looks fairly even but the difference is that come the most recent playoffs, everybody's numbers stayed about the same except for the old man's. KG's rebounding numbers went through the roof in his most recent playoffs(13.7 rpg 23.2 TRB%) and he has shown a history throughout his career of increasing his rpg and TRB% in the playoffs.

I think this would greatly favor Cleveland in the rebounding department as Minnesota's best rebounder will probably not be on the floor in 4th quarters and playing about just 24-25 MPG.

Given this rebounding advantage and about equal defenses it comes down to whether Minny can score efficiently and often enough to overcome a balaNced and efficient Cleveland offense. As Roy's TS% numbers show, that probably is not likely.

I think this is a close series but I see Cleveland in 6 really tight games. defense and reboundING and better shooting will win every time.

[KGs Knee]

Just voted....Timberwolves

[fitzhickey]

voted Cleveland

[fairweatherfan]

voting is unique and a personal thing to each voter, in any circumstance (politics, cb draft, etc.).  everyone is different in what they value, what they foresee, and how they interpret things.  being told a voter is wrong, uninformed, or anything else that is being implied is just wrong imo.  this is a hypothetical exercise where voting takes place.  no one's vote is more valued or more important than the next person.  if someone does not agree with someone's analysis, interprets things differently, or projects different outcomes....they aren't wrong, misinformed, a sheep, or anything else....they have a difference of opinion, plain and simple..

Agree fully.  Disrespecting and caricaturing the reasoning process or motivations of folks who vote differently is exactly the kind of crap that's kept me away from this exercise.  Presenting evidence or support is fine and often helpful, but ultimately everyone's decision-making is their own and should be respected.

That said, still don't know which way I'm gonna go.  Two talented but flawed teams.

[nickagneta]

CAN WE GENERALLY PUT A STOP TO THE "YOU ARE ALL SMART SO WHY ARE YOU BEING SO _______, NOW" ARGUMENTS, COMMENTS AND SO FORTH. ENOUGH IS ENOUGH AND I EXPECT BETTER FROM THE PEOPLE DISCUSSING SUCH THINGS!!!

[AB_Celtic]

To change topics...

It seems like nearly all that can be said about this series has been said. Both teams are flawed but Minnesota is more flawed IMO. Some people disagree, and that's fine.

Regardless of the outcome, I am quite proud to have made it all the way to the finals after starting out with the 19th pick in the first round. That, and being able to talk basketball with some very smart fans out there (I'm talking to all of you guys) made this a very fun experience for me. I'll probably do this exercise again next year, and I wouldn't be doing it if it weren't for all of the GMs and other commenters who put a lot of time and thought into this draft. So thank you all.

And a special thank you to Nick who worked his butt off to make this happen.

/sappy post

[nickagneta]

I would really like to have seen more head to head debate between the GMs which we have seen in past Finals debates. Kind of disappointed in that

[BleedGreen1989]

I'm voting for Drew Carey

[KGs Knee]

Just for posterity's sake, here is my reasoning on why I voted for Minny.  In order to beat a LeBron led team, you need to be have one of two things.

A)  A squad that is overwhelmingly more skilled in many, if not all, other areas.

B)  A SF who is capable of making LeBron work for his points, and also capable of getting his own (to varying degrees).  Here's the short list of players I view as fitting the criteria.  Kevin Durant, Carmelo Anthony, Paul George, Luol Deng, Paul Pierce, Kawhi Leonard.  If you don't have one of those players, you likely aren't winning.  Even then, it is still difficult if the rest of the team isn't also at least slightly better.

None of the teams Minny faced in the playoffs had one of those players, except for Portland, and I just didn't think Portland was good enough otherwise.

[Kane3387]

In 2012 Lebron basically willed Miami to the title by himself. Bosh missed almost two entire series with the abdominal muscle. Wade was on one leg and at best was good for one half a game. The rest of his team was crud.

He dominated Boston single handedly in a must win game six that catapulted his team over Boston and OKC. He destroyed durant and single handedly pretty much beat Indiana. His run was amazing averaging easily over 30 and 10.

Be real he just beat a team with rondo Aldridge and hibbert. Then a team with Dwight and rose. With this supporting cast??? Only way minny is winning is bc of the Lebron button. A team whose big three consists of 38 yr old kg, undersized horford, and Ty Lawson is now going to slow down King James who has the taste for winning titles?!

Don't see it. Maybe if Gerald Wallace, Caron butler, and Jamal Crawford were all three years younger then yeah I'd go Cleveland. But they're not. They're on the downside.

No way Lebron is being denied in this series at this point in his career in his prime.

[Who]

Just for posterity's sake, here is my reasoning on why I voted for Minny.  In order to beat a LeBron led team, you need to be have one of two things.

That is a good topic.

For me, I thought Minnesota had a very effective small ball lineup that would have been very difficult to beat ... but I also thought that their big lineup (two big men), while hugely effective defensively, was badly balanced offensively and would struggle to provide enough floor spacing and complementary scoring around LeBron to win at the highest level. So from the start, I viewed the best way to beat Minnesota was by forcing them to stay big.

And I thought Golden State (R.Hibbert, L.Aldridge) would've been able to do that in the second round and that is why -- along with Rondo who was a player capable of dominating a playoff series from start to finish + a deep supporting cast -- I chose Golden State to beat Minnesota in the 2nd round.

[Roy H.]

Just for posterity's sake, here is my reasoning on why I voted for Minny.  In order to beat a LeBron led team, you need to be have one of two things.

A)  A squad that is overwhelmingly more skilled in many, if not all, other areas.

B)  A SF who is capable of making LeBron work for his points, and also capable of getting his own (to varying degrees).  Here's the short list of players I view as fitting the criteria.  Kevin Durant, Carmelo Anthony, Paul George, Luol Deng, Paul Pierce, Kawhi Leonard.  If you don't have one of those players, you likely aren't winning.  Even then, it is still difficult if the rest of the team isn't also at least slightly better.

None of the teams Minny faced in the playoffs had one of those players, except for Portland, and I just didn't think Portland was good enough otherwise.

Where does Shawn Marion fit into this analysis?

Wallace is Cleveland's Marion. The rest of the roster compares favorably, as well

[indeedproceed]

Just for posterity's sake, here is my reasoning on why I voted for Minny.  In order to beat a LeBron led team, you need to be have one of two things.

A)  A squad that is overwhelmingly more skilled in many, if not all, other areas.

B)  A SF who is capable of making LeBron work for his points, and also capable of getting his own (to varying degrees).  Here's the short list of players I view as fitting the criteria.  Kevin Durant, Carmelo Anthony, Paul George, Luol Deng, Paul Pierce, Kawhi Leonard.  If you don't have one of those players, you likely aren't winning.  Even then, it is still difficult if the rest of the team isn't also at least slightly better.

None of the teams Minny faced in the playoffs had one of those players, except for Portland, and I just didn't think Portland was good enough otherwise.

Where does Shawn Marion fit into this analysis?

Wallace is Cleveland's Marion. The rest of the roster compares favorably, as well

So Cleveland's playing Wallace big minutes?