Old Man Yells At Cloud

[Ed Monix]

I love Charles Barkley, but some of his curmudgeonous rants get tiresome. The load management stuff in particular annoys me.

Barkley of all people should understand that not playing through injuries is a good idea. When you look at his NBA career, he didn’t even come into the league until 21. His rookie year he spent 80% of games coming off the bench. By the time he got to Houston at 33 years old, he was no longer the same athlete.

Barkley only really had 11 elite seasons in the NBA. In the modern NBA, players are coming into the league and starting at 19, and expecting to stay at the same physical level into their mid 30’s.

Guys like Barkley lost tens of millions of dollars simply because they were told to walk it off.

[green_bballers13]

Barkley's take on analytics was antiquated and dumb as well. I love when Shaq brings up Chuck's ring total.

[Kernewek]

I love Charles Barkley, but some of his curmudgeonous rants get tiresome. The load management stuff in particular annoys me.

Barkley of all people should understand that not playing through injuries is a good idea. When you look at his NBA career, he didn’t even come into the league until 21. His rookie year he spent 80% of games coming off the bench. By the time he got to Houston at 33 years old, he was no longer the same athlete.

Barkley only really had 11 elite seasons in the NBA. In the modern NBA, players are coming into the league and starting at 19, and expecting to stay at the same physical level into their mid 30’s.

Guys like Barkley lost tens of millions of dollars simply because they were told to walk it off.

Ed, I'd love a list of NBA guys who are the same athlete at 33 that they were at 21.

In the interest of full disclosure, I am expecting it to be very short.

[Moranis]

I love Charles Barkley, but some of his curmudgeonous rants get tiresome. The load management stuff in particular annoys me.

Barkley of all people should understand that not playing through injuries is a good idea. When you look at his NBA career, he didn’t even come into the league until 21. His rookie year he spent 80% of games coming off the bench. By the time he got to Houston at 33 years old, he was no longer the same athlete.

Barkley only really had 11 elite seasons in the NBA. In the modern NBA, players are coming into the league and starting at 19, and expecting to stay at the same physical level into their mid 30’s.

Guys like Barkley lost tens of millions of dollars simply because they were told to walk it off.

Ed, I'd love a list of NBA guys who are the same athlete at 33 that they were at 21.

In the interest of full disclosure, I am expecting it to be very short.

even a list of 11 elite seasons is not going to be very long

[Roy H.]

What's Barkley saying, specifically?

There's obviously a balance.  If guys are relatively healthy, they should play.  If they're injured, they should be allowed to heal.  And, players should never be shy about getting second opinions regarding injuries. 

But, there's a difference between not playing through injury, and taking off games for rest / load management.

[gift]

I love Charles Barkley, but some of his curmudgeonous rants get tiresome. The load management stuff in particular annoys me.

Barkley of all people should understand that not playing through injuries is a good idea. When you look at his NBA career, he didn’t even come into the league until 21. His rookie year he spent 80% of games coming off the bench. By the time he got to Houston at 33 years old, he was no longer the same athlete.

Barkley only really had 11 elite seasons in the NBA. In the modern NBA, players are coming into the league and starting at 19, and expecting to stay at the same physical level into their mid 30’s.

Guys like Barkley lost tens of millions of dollars simply because they were told to walk it off.

Ed, I'd love a list of NBA guys who are the same athlete at 33 that they were at 21.

In the interest of full disclosure, I am expecting it to be very short.

i particularly wouldn't expect a 6'4 power forward to have the same bounce at 33. for reference, Blake Griffin was 33 last year.

[Kernewek]

I love Charles Barkley, but some of his curmudgeonous rants get tiresome. The load management stuff in particular annoys me.

Barkley of all people should understand that not playing through injuries is a good idea. When you look at his NBA career, he didn’t even come into the league until 21. His rookie year he spent 80% of games coming off the bench. By the time he got to Houston at 33 years old, he was no longer the same athlete.

Barkley only really had 11 elite seasons in the NBA. In the modern NBA, players are coming into the league and starting at 19, and expecting to stay at the same physical level into their mid 30’s.

Guys like Barkley lost tens of millions of dollars simply because they were told to walk it off.

Ed, I'd love a list of NBA guys who are the same athlete at 33 that they were at 21.

In the interest of full disclosure, I am expecting it to be very short.

i particularly wouldn't expect a 6'4 power forward to have the same bounce at 33. for reference, Blake Griffin was 33 last year.

And Griffin is a guy who famously had a season-ending knee injury before his rookie year.

I do find the back and forth pretty interesting, though:
https://theathletic.com/4954304/2023/10/11/nba-load-management-data-analysis-no-longer-supported/
https://theathletic.com/4954969/2023/10/13/nba-load-management-rules-changes-improvement/

Rest isn't rest, except when it is rest? To be honest, I find this kind of thing fairly inescapable - the stakes are too high for players and teams to keep guys in when they could be injured, but all sports are inherently risky activities.

[gift]

I love Charles Barkley, but some of his curmudgeonous rants get tiresome. The load management stuff in particular annoys me.

Barkley of all people should understand that not playing through injuries is a good idea. When you look at his NBA career, he didn’t even come into the league until 21. His rookie year he spent 80% of games coming off the bench. By the time he got to Houston at 33 years old, he was no longer the same athlete.

Barkley only really had 11 elite seasons in the NBA. In the modern NBA, players are coming into the league and starting at 19, and expecting to stay at the same physical level into their mid 30’s.

Guys like Barkley lost tens of millions of dollars simply because they were told to walk it off.

Ed, I'd love a list of NBA guys who are the same athlete at 33 that they were at 21.

In the interest of full disclosure, I am expecting it to be very short.

i particularly wouldn't expect a 6'4 power forward to have the same bounce at 33. for reference, Blake Griffin was 33 last year.

And Griffin is a guy who famously had a season-ending knee injury before his rookie year.

I do find the back and forth pretty interesting, though:
https://theathletic.com/4954304/2023/10/11/nba-load-management-data-analysis-no-longer-supported/
https://theathletic.com/4954969/2023/10/13/nba-load-management-rules-changes-improvement/

Rest isn't rest, except when it is rest? To be honest, I find this kind of thing fairly inescapable - the stakes are too high for players and teams to keep guys in when they could be injured, but all sports are inherently risky activities.

agree. i think the league is directionally correct that they need to utilize rest to assist in players' overall performance and availability. however, i don't think anyone has figured out which data points combined with which variables can begin to inform a strategy. it's sort of a trial and error attempt currently.

[johnnygreen]

Count me as someone who doesn't get the load management excuse for missing games. Are those players that sit out games for load management, also practicing and traveling? Shouldn't load management include not traveling with the team, practicing, and playing in a game? I always found playing the game to be the actual break from the wear and tear of practice (and traveling).

[Donoghus]

I love Charles Barkley, but some of his curmudgeonous rants get tiresome. The load management stuff in particular annoys me.

Barkley of all people should understand that not playing through injuries is a good idea. When you look at his NBA career, he didn’t even come into the league until 21. His rookie year he spent 80% of games coming off the bench. By the time he got to Houston at 33 years old, he was no longer the same athlete.

Barkley only really had 11 elite seasons in the NBA. In the modern NBA, players are coming into the league and starting at 19, and expecting to stay at the same physical level into their mid 30’s.

Guys like Barkley lost tens of millions of dollars simply because they were told to walk it off.

Look at the time frame here.  How many 19 year olds were entering the league in 1984?  Heck, how many underclassmen were entering the league in 1980s?  What was the average career span for guys that entered the league then?

Conditioning & nutrition were a lot different back then. Not to mention medical science in general.  Some injuries that were considered career killers back then can now remedied in today's day & age.  We know so much more now.

Trying to trash Barkley's career isn't quite the flex you thought it was.  Only "11 elite seasons" and making it to your mid 30s, especially the way Barkley was built, is an accomplishment and not a dimishment.

[Moranis]

Actually listened to what Charles said and he is 100% correct.  If you are getting paid 50 million a year to play basketball 3 times a week, you should play basketball 3 times a week.  If you are injured then sit out, but if you ar3 sore or hurt a bit, you should play.  There is a very big difference between injured and hurt and that is what Charles was talking about.

[johnnygreen]

Barkley's take on analytics was antiquated and dumb as well. I love when Shaq brings up Chuck's ring total.

Barkley played during a time dominated by Magic, Bird, and Jordan. I don't recall Shaq winning a title during Jordan's 2nd 3-peat. BTW, Shaq didn't win a title until he had Kobe. It should go without saying, but Charles is an all-time great player. In his final season at 36 years old, he was still getting 10.5 rebounds per game.

[johnnygreen]

I feel like Barkley had a "expected" athletic lifespan for his time period. Around 2000's medical science took a big leap in helping you extend an athletes time frame. BTW, we shouldn't forget or get diswaded by some athletes taking illegal enhancers to extend that lifespan.

[86MaxwellSmart]

Well, since the regular season is useless and the only thing that matters is the playoffs...let players sit a few games here and there.

[Who]

Count me as someone who doesn't get the load management excuse for missing games. Are those players that sit out games for load management, also practicing and traveling? Shouldn't load management include not traveling with the team, practicing, and playing in a game? I always found playing the game to be the actual break from the wear and tear of practice (and traveling).

Yeah, that is how Phil Jackson did load management in the second three-peat. He gave MJ, Pippen, Rodman, Ron Harper practices off to avoid wear and tear. They played the games. They got rest during and instead of practice. Rather than missing games.