Harry Giles Thread (Merged)

[Who]

Giles has to show he can regain his athleticism by draft workouts to be a lotto pick.

[tankcity!]

I feel really badly for him. Apparently he is a really hard worker and worked his way up to the stud he was in high school. Hopefully he gets his explosion back. That's just one obstacle though. He also has to prove he can stay healthy. Still think he can be a lottery pick if he obtains his athleticism.

[saltlover]

I feel really badly for him. Apparently he is a really hard worker and worked his way up to the stud he was in high school. Hopefully he gets his explosion back. That's just one obstacle though. He also has to prove he can stay healthy. Still think he can be a lottery pick if he obtains his athleticism.

He also needs to show awareness on the defensive end.  He's out of place a good bit, and college defensive schemes aren't normally as complicated as NBA schemes.  He's looking less like a two-way player.

[drogbagarnett]

I can feel right now that we will be more likely to draft the 7'1 Justin Patton than the 6'10 Harry Giles with our BKN 2017 pick... Believe it or not...

Is there a moch draft that has Patton in the top 15?

Yes, # 14 here :

https://theringer.com/the-ringers-2017-nba-draft-lottery-big-board-version-2-0-446c31b6a473#.v9dqo56sb

[TrueFan]

I can feel right now that we will be more likely to draft the 7'1 Justin Patton than the 6'10 Harry Giles with our BKN 2017 pick... Believe it or not...

Is there a moch draft that has Patton in the top 15?

Yes, # 14 here :

https://theringer.com/the-ringers-2017-nba-draft-lottery-big-board-version-2-0-446c31b6a473#.v9dqo56sb

Yeah but you can't use a top 3 pick on a guy who is number 14 on one draft board.

[saltlover]

I can feel right now that we will be more likely to draft the 7'1 Justin Patton than the 6'10 Harry Giles with our BKN 2017 pick... Believe it or not...

Is there a moch draft that has Patton in the top 15?

Yes, # 14 here :

https://theringer.com/the-ringers-2017-nba-draft-lottery-big-board-version-2-0-446c31b6a473#.v9dqo56sb

Yeah but you can't use a top 3 pick on a guy who is number 14 on one draft board.

The worst-case scenario for the pick is #5, and even that would appear to be a major reach.

On the other hand, when was the last time that the top 5 in a draft contained neither a pure 5 nor a 4/5 hybrid?  That's a real question -- I remember looking a couple of years ago and I think I went back to the 80s without finding an example.  Accordingly, I think some big will be selected in the top 5.  Will it be Giles? Patton? Markkanen?  It's tough to make a strong case for any of them, but history indicates that one of them, or some other big, will be.

[Donoghus]

I can feel right now that we will be more likely to draft the 7'1 Justin Patton than the 6'10 Harry Giles with our BKN 2017 pick... Believe it or not...

Is there a moch draft that has Patton in the top 15?

Yes, # 14 here :

https://theringer.com/the-ringers-2017-nba-draft-lottery-big-board-version-2-0-446c31b6a473#.v9dqo56sb

Yeah but you can't use a top 3 pick on a guy who is number 14 on one draft board.

The worst-case scenario for the pick is #5, and even that would appear to be a major reach.

On the other hand, when was the last time that the top 5 in a draft contained neither a pure 5 nor a 4/5 hybrid?  That's a real question -- I remember looking a couple of years ago and I think I went back to the 80s without finding an example.  Accordingly, I think some big will be selected in the top 5.  Will it be Giles? Patton? Markkanen?  It's tough to make a strong case for any of them, but history indicates that one of them, or some other big, will be.

I can't come up with one.

EDIT:  '67?  Looks like G, G, G, F, G.  Someone will have to enlighten me more about Sonny Dove but he's listed as a SF in his bio.

[saltlover]

I can feel right now that we will be more likely to draft the 7'1 Justin Patton than the 6'10 Harry Giles with our BKN 2017 pick... Believe it or not...

Is there a moch draft that has Patton in the top 15?

Yes, # 14 here :

https://theringer.com/the-ringers-2017-nba-draft-lottery-big-board-version-2-0-446c31b6a473#.v9dqo56sb

Yeah but you can't use a top 3 pick on a guy who is number 14 on one draft board.

The worst-case scenario for the pick is #5, and even that would appear to be a major reach.

On the other hand, when was the last time that the top 5 in a draft contained neither a pure 5 nor a 4/5 hybrid?  That's a real question -- I remember looking a couple of years ago and I think I went back to the 80s without finding an example.  Accordingly, I think some big will be selected in the top 5.  Will it be Giles? Patton? Markkanen?  It's tough to make a strong case for any of them, but history indicates that one of them, or some other big, will be.

I can't come up with one.

EDIT:  '67?  Looks like G, G, G, F, G.  Someone will have to enlighten me more about Sonny Dove but he's listed as a SF in his bio.

Man, that's far back.  Basketball reference lists him as a PF, but also at 6'7" and 200 pounds, so I'm willing to say he's not a 4/5.  In either case, 50 years is a long time! TP for going back that far.

[Donoghus]

I can feel right now that we will be more likely to draft the 7'1 Justin Patton than the 6'10 Harry Giles with our BKN 2017 pick... Believe it or not...

Is there a moch draft that has Patton in the top 15?

Yes, # 14 here :

https://theringer.com/the-ringers-2017-nba-draft-lottery-big-board-version-2-0-446c31b6a473#.v9dqo56sb

Yeah but you can't use a top 3 pick on a guy who is number 14 on one draft board.

The worst-case scenario for the pick is #5, and even that would appear to be a major reach.

On the other hand, when was the last time that the top 5 in a draft contained neither a pure 5 nor a 4/5 hybrid?  That's a real question -- I remember looking a couple of years ago and I think I went back to the 80s without finding an example.  Accordingly, I think some big will be selected in the top 5.  Will it be Giles? Patton? Markkanen?  It's tough to make a strong case for any of them, but history indicates that one of them, or some other big, will be.

I can't come up with one.

EDIT:  '67?  Looks like G, G, G, F, G.  Someone will have to enlighten me more about Sonny Dove but he's listed as a SF in his bio.

Man, that's far back.  Basketball reference lists him as a PF, but also at 6'7" and 200 pounds, so I'm willing to say he's not a 4/5.  In either case, 50 years is a long time! TP for going back that far.

Yeah, its pretty insane to consider.  You think dumb luck would have a year where it was guards & small forwards.

[chilidawg]

I can feel right now that we will be more likely to draft the 7'1 Justin Patton than the 6'10 Harry Giles with our BKN 2017 pick... Believe it or not...

Is there a moch draft that has Patton in the top 15?

Yes, # 14 here :

https://theringer.com/the-ringers-2017-nba-draft-lottery-big-board-version-2-0-446c31b6a473#.v9dqo56sb

Yeah but you can't use a top 3 pick on a guy who is number 14 on one draft board.

Sure you can, if you're convinced that he's the right guy.  It takes guts, but that's what GM's are supposed to do.  The obsession with mock drafts (I'm guilty too!) is a little out of control.

[Donoghus]

I can feel right now that we will be more likely to draft the 7'1 Justin Patton than the 6'10 Harry Giles with our BKN 2017 pick... Believe it or not...

Is there a moch draft that has Patton in the top 15?

Yes, # 14 here :

https://theringer.com/the-ringers-2017-nba-draft-lottery-big-board-version-2-0-446c31b6a473#.v9dqo56sb

Yeah but you can't use a top 3 pick on a guy who is number 14 on one draft board.

Sure you can, if you're convinced that he's the right guy.  It takes guts, but that's what GM's are supposed to do.  The obsession with mock drafts (I'm guilty too!) is a little out of control.

You can but, from a value standpoint, its not the best thing to do.  If no other team has the guy in, say, the top 10 on their draft boards (not that you'd necessarily know) then you're sacrificing the opportunity to pick up additional assets by trading down and still being able to take your guy.  But then you're dealing with the gamble that the guy would still be there at 14 or wherever.

But I also totally see what you're saying; if you're in love with the guy and feel he's can't miss, maybe you just say the heck with it and draft it.  It's just a really ballsy to do.  Especially when you're talking a drop from 3 to 14. 

[coffee425]

i'll repeat. stay in school.
rehab.
dominate. fall back into the top 5.
just in time for the new rookie wages from the new CBA.

[saltlover]

I can feel right now that we will be more likely to draft the 7'1 Justin Patton than the 6'10 Harry Giles with our BKN 2017 pick... Believe it or not...

Is there a moch draft that has Patton in the top 15?

Yes, # 14 here :

https://theringer.com/the-ringers-2017-nba-draft-lottery-big-board-version-2-0-446c31b6a473#.v9dqo56sb

Yeah but you can't use a top 3 pick on a guy who is number 14 on one draft board.

The worst-case scenario for the pick is #5, and even that would appear to be a major reach.

On the other hand, when was the last time that the top 5 in a draft contained neither a pure 5 nor a 4/5 hybrid?  That's a real question -- I remember looking a couple of years ago and I think I went back to the 80s without finding an example.  Accordingly, I think some big will be selected in the top 5.  Will it be Giles? Patton? Markkanen?  It's tough to make a strong case for any of them, but history indicates that one of them, or some other big, will be.

I can't come up with one.

EDIT:  '67?  Looks like G, G, G, F, G.  Someone will have to enlighten me more about Sonny Dove but he's listed as a SF in his bio.

Man, that's far back.  Basketball reference lists him as a PF, but also at 6'7" and 200 pounds, so I'm willing to say he's not a 4/5.  In either case, 50 years is a long time! TP for going back that far.

Yeah, its pretty insane to consider.  You think dumb luck would have a year where it was guards & small forwards.

Yeah.  Even if you assume that there's a bias, and 50% of top 5 picks are 4/5 or pure 5 types, the odds of there not being a draft that's all guards and small forwards in 50 years is about 20%.

NBA front offices are always willing to gamble on a big.  It seems like a market inefficiency if you can figure out how to exploit it. On the other hand, maybe it isn't, and everyone is rational about their selection of bigs.

[gift]

I'm curious where he stands after he gets several games in. May not be top of the charts, but I don't think he's Skal, either.

Mike

If the draft was held today, giles would be drafted at the tail end of the lotto to late teens

But imo he is still rusty and not fully recovered from his surgery.  I would give it until the last 5 games of the season

Where was Thon Maker drafted? He was projected as a deep 2nd rounder at one point.

I think Giles is a top 10 pick, regardless of what he does at Duke.

There are a bunch of guys that I like in this draft for the Celtics:

-Fultz
-Tatum
-Jackson
-Ball
-Isaac
-Ivan Rabb

I would take Giles 5th, if Ball was taken.

IMO Thon Maker is black mark on draft express. They insisted on downplaying him even though it was clear someone (rightly or wrongly) was going to take him fairly early. They changed their mock at the last minute. But it raises the question, is draft express really a mock, or list of guys they like? Because if it's a mock, they dropped the ball on Thon Maker (and I think it was their own bias getting in the way).

Maker may have been a reach by Bucks. Does he get any PT so far? Don't think so.  Is he hurt?

For every Greek Freak, there are 99 Thon Makers who measure great but just don't work out. Too soon to say about him, I understand, but the odds work that way.

If Draft Express is doing a mock, they should predict someone reaching on a player like Thon, when it was pretty clear someone was going to (and the Bucks actually did). I think they fell more into ranking him as a second round talent which, while more appropriate from a talent evaluation standpoint, does not represent a "mock draft", or at least certainly not an accurate one.

It's only relevant here, because it seems a similar discussion is forming around Giles. Some people are talking about how far he's dropping, others project him to still be drafted quite high. When citing Draft Express as an example of his dropping stock, it's good to keep in mind they have a recent history of being incorrect when it comes to predicting a similar risk/reward scenario (albeit due to different circumstances).

[Boris Badenov]

I'm curious where he stands after he gets several games in. May not be top of the charts, but I don't think he's Skal, either.

Mike

If the draft was held today, giles would be drafted at the tail end of the lotto to late teens

But imo he is still rusty and not fully recovered from his surgery.  I would give it until the last 5 games of the season

Where was Thon Maker drafted? He was projected as a deep 2nd rounder at one point.

I think Giles is a top 10 pick, regardless of what he does at Duke.

There are a bunch of guys that I like in this draft for the Celtics:

-Fultz
-Tatum
-Jackson
-Ball
-Isaac
-Ivan Rabb

I would take Giles 5th, if Ball was taken.

IMO Thon Maker is black mark on draft express. They insisted on downplaying him even though it was clear someone (rightly or wrongly) was going to take him fairly early. They changed their mock at the last minute. But it raises the question, is draft express really a mock, or list of guys they like? Because if it's a mock, they dropped the ball on Thon Maker (and I think it was their own bias getting in the way).

Maker may have been a reach by Bucks. Does he get any PT so far? Don't think so.  Is he hurt?

For every Greek Freak, there are 99 Thon Makers who measure great but just don't work out. Too soon to say about him, I understand, but the odds work that way.

If Draft Express is doing a mock, they should predict someone reaching on a player like Thon, when it was pretty clear someone was going to (and the Bucks actually did). I think they fell more into ranking him as a second round talent which, while more appropriate from a talent evaluation standpoint, does not represent a "mock draft", or at least certainly not an accurate one.

I don't think you're remembering the Maker situation correctly.

It would only be a "black mark" for DX if they insisted on ranking him based on their lower evaluation but others (who understood that "someone" was going to take him) had him higher.

But nbadraft.net had maker #36:

http://www.nbadraft.net/2016mock_draft

CBS had him at #27:

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/nba-mock-draft-2016-lsus-ben-simmons-to-the-sixers-at-no-1-looks-to-be-done/

nba.com had him at #23:

http://www.nba.com/2016/news/features/scott_howard_cooper/06/23/2016-nba-mock-draft-4-0/

SI had him in the second round:

http://www.si.com/nba/photo/2016/05/18/2016-nba-mock-draft

His pick at #10 was a shock.