Would you rather have 2 years of Kyrie or Collin Sexton

[Csfan1984]

Sexton because there wouldn't have been regression on this team or a need to keep guys like Rozier and Morris. Irving set the team back.

But Sexton is a very average player

Yes he is and we just gave a player who is marginally better a 4 year max contract.

Rofl. Completely off talent assessment. Please tell me what exactly is marginal about the difference between a 3x All-Star & All-NBA point guard vs a guy who put up a very inefficient 17PPG on one of the worst teams in the league, who also can't pass?

This is one of the most laughably wrong comparisons I've seen here in a while. Not quite Tacko = Wilt, but it's bad.

Take a look at the numbers not the awards. They are clearly closer than you think.

Ah yes, I forgot basketball is in fact all about stats! Silly me. Even if you were right and the stats were close (which they aren't) it wouldn't tell the story. Kemba nearly willed what is frankly a garbage roster to the playoffs.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1_hint=kemba+Walker&player_id1_select=Kemba+Walker&y1=2019&player_id1=walkeke02&idx=players&player_id2_hint=Collin+Sexton&player_id2_select=Collin+Sexton&y2=2019&player_id2=sextoco01&idx=players

Like the Cavs aren't a bad team.

Look at that usage rate and fg%. Sexton would score just as much and nearly as many ast with that usage.

Sorry man, I am with Gouki, this is a really really bad take. It is not even in the ballpark of reasonable. Probably best to just let it go. No offense.

Gotta agree.
 
https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1_hint=Kemba+Walker&player_id1_select=Kemba+Walker&y1=2019&player_id1=walkeke02&idx=players&player_id2_hint=Collin+Sexton&player_id2_select=Collin+Sexton&y2=2019&player_id2=sextoco01&idx=players

Here is the stat comparison. It's not even close. Evening things out with per36 numbers and Kemba is scoring over 7 PPG more and had double the amount of assists and steals and 4 times more blocks while shooting much better overall with TS% of 4 percentage points higher.

Then you add in the intangibles like proven experience, playoff experience, clutchness, leadership, accolades, and overall talent and you can easily see Sexton isn't anywhere close to being on Kemba's level.

Sorry but accolades? Guy hasn't won anything since college. Playoff experience.. how many playoffs has he won or made in his illustrious career? Leadership... wasnt Batum the guy in the past that many said was carrying the team before his injuries.

Where is the talk about usage rate, defense, or Walker's actual shooting? Let's not gloss over Walker's flaws since he is the Celtic. Let's look at the negatives. When another poster wrote on here some suggested Walker for Irving as his argument people liked Walker, I chuckled because there was a lot of negatives by the forum for Walker then. Now he is a Celtic and it's no more critiques.

Accolades matter because they show you performed on the court at an elite level. If you are constantly on All-Star teams it's because you are a top 25 or so player in the league. Getting there multiple times shows your performance wasn't some one and done type thing. Winning All-NBA awards shows you were a top 5, 10 or 15 player in the league for that year. Kemba with three straight All-Star appearances and a 3rd Team All-NBA pretty much cements him as a top 20-25 player in the league.

The difference between a top 25 player in the league and Sexton, an inefficient shoot first PG that sucks at virtually everything else he does is gigantic. It's not even close.

As for playoff experience, he has played in the playoffs. He has averaged 21.5/4.7/3.3 in the playoffs while being the scoring option the other teams needed to shut down because everyone else basically sucked.

And being surrounded by terrible talent has been a problem for Kemba since he entered the league. It's why his usage rate is so high. Most years, Kemba was the only real scoring option on his team. He needed to overcome that and the last three years he has.

His last three years, he has played 241 out if 246 regular season games, been an All-Star each year averaging 23.7/5.7/3.8 while shooting slightly above average at 43.6/37.8/85.2 for a TS% just under 57%.

Kemba came into his prime 3 years ago and has been stellar, overall. If you want to believe that Sexton will eventually be better than the player that Kemba is now, fine. But to try to push the idea that currently Sexton isn't that much less of a player than Kemba, frankly just doesn't have much credence to it, IMHO.

And, I would say the same thing about Kyrie, Lillard, Westbrook, Lowry, Steph, Harden, CP3, Ben Simmons, Bledsoe, or Conley. All of those PGs are world's better than Sexton.

Credence? After all that spin.

Some accolades matter but three all stars one from injury alt. is special? Let's not also forget he was going to this year's no matter what.

His playoff career is a joke. You can't salvage that. Tatum and Brown did more and have more experience than him as two and three year pros. And it's not hard to make it in the East so Walker doesn't have a lot of excuses.

Kemba's career numbers show what he is. I am not going off this last year alone or last three years. I'm going by the player career wise because you do have to project when a guy ask would you rather have player X or two years of player Y. That was the question. Sexton is slightly ahead of where Walker was. Both similar size, speed and even shooting numbers from the go. TS would increase easily with more experience with working the calls, you aren't getting many as a rook.

 There are multiple breakdowns on Sexton and Kemba's year this year on youtube you can review them. Sexton made a lot of rookie mistakes often but he has a lot of skill and should improve on decision making. Kemba's all NBA season they compare to a poor man's Irving, (guess that is why Irving made 1st team).

Kemba as you said hit his prime a couple years ago currently he is career wise 19pts/4reb/6ast per, shooting 41%/35%/84% usage of 27 that's giving him three peak years of his career.
Sexton at 20 years old had 17/3/3 shooting 43%/40%/84% usage 25. Now
this past year Kemba at 28 had 26/4/6 but was nearly on par with his shooting career wise with 43/36/84. It was usage that was the main factor in pts at 31.

We can all agree Cavs as a team, if you can call them that were a lot worse than Hornets so that accounts for missed ast.

So as I said take the team and usage into account it makes Kemba marginally better than Sexton. Two years of Irving or a marginally worse Kemba on a rookie deal? Give me Sexton

And boom. Goodbye to people taking your posts seriously on this matter. You're ignoring the years where he's begun to enter his prime while maintaining good health because it doesn't serve your argument, and you're blaming one player for not dragging the worst organisation in the NBA to playoffs. Hilarious.

He ignored years. I didn't ignore any.

Ps should I add a "boom" and tell you that your post should now not be taken seriously?

Ignoring years is completely reasonable. How many people talk about Rondo's first 3 years when discussing how good he was? Or people with Kobe and his first 4 years? It's a ridiculous angle to take.

You're intentionally ignoring context in some desperate attempt to be correct because your take is way off.

Lol trying to switch and save face. You're a move the goal post kind of guy I see. Just say oops and move along. Your post are no longer taken seriously especially after this flip flop.

If you can't understand the difference between ignoring someone's prime that they are still in and ignoring someone's early years that have literally no impact on how they're playing now that's not my fault. I can't control your comprehension, or lack thereof.

So funny. You talk about comprehension and ignoring things from me. You need to look in the mirror because you just ignored the numbers that feature his all NBA vs his own career vs Sexton, the fact I didn't skip years, then you even flip flopped after trying to shame me. Now it's move the goal post Aaaagain.

So in case of moving the goal post... we need to now ignore Walker's younger years and only take specific years while Sexton was on his rookie year, also we need to remember how bad Walker's team was but not how bad Cavs are or the fact Sexton is playing with this all new worst teammates. Do I have that right?

It's all too funny


All hail Walker the new Celtic! Praise thy in Green

[celticsclay]

Sexton because there wouldn't have been regression on this team or a need to keep guys like Rozier and Morris. Irving set the team back.

But Sexton is a very average player

Yes he is and we just gave a player who is marginally better a 4 year max contract.

Rofl. Completely off talent assessment. Please tell me what exactly is marginal about the difference between a 3x All-Star & All-NBA point guard vs a guy who put up a very inefficient 17PPG on one of the worst teams in the league, who also can't pass?

This is one of the most laughably wrong comparisons I've seen here in a while. Not quite Tacko = Wilt, but it's bad.

Take a look at the numbers not the awards. They are clearly closer than you think.

Ah yes, I forgot basketball is in fact all about stats! Silly me. Even if you were right and the stats were close (which they aren't) it wouldn't tell the story. Kemba nearly willed what is frankly a garbage roster to the playoffs.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1_hint=kemba+Walker&player_id1_select=Kemba+Walker&y1=2019&player_id1=walkeke02&idx=players&player_id2_hint=Collin+Sexton&player_id2_select=Collin+Sexton&y2=2019&player_id2=sextoco01&idx=players

Like the Cavs aren't a bad team.

Look at that usage rate and fg%. Sexton would score just as much and nearly as many ast with that usage.

Sorry man, I am with Gouki, this is a really really bad take. It is not even in the ballpark of reasonable. Probably best to just let it go. No offense.

Gotta agree.
 
https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1_hint=Kemba+Walker&player_id1_select=Kemba+Walker&y1=2019&player_id1=walkeke02&idx=players&player_id2_hint=Collin+Sexton&player_id2_select=Collin+Sexton&y2=2019&player_id2=sextoco01&idx=players

Here is the stat comparison. It's not even close. Evening things out with per36 numbers and Kemba is scoring over 7 PPG more and had double the amount of assists and steals and 4 times more blocks while shooting much better overall with TS% of 4 percentage points higher.

Then you add in the intangibles like proven experience, playoff experience, clutchness, leadership, accolades, and overall talent and you can easily see Sexton isn't anywhere close to being on Kemba's level.

Sorry but accolades? Guy hasn't won anything since college. Playoff experience.. how many playoffs has he won or made in his illustrious career? Leadership... wasnt Batum the guy in the past that many said was carrying the team before his injuries.

Where is the talk about usage rate, defense, or Walker's actual shooting? Let's not gloss over Walker's flaws since he is the Celtic. Let's look at the negatives. When another poster wrote on here some suggested Walker for Irving as his argument people liked Walker, I chuckled because there was a lot of negatives by the forum for Walker then. Now he is a Celtic and it's no more critiques.

Accolades matter because they show you performed on the court at an elite level. If you are constantly on All-Star teams it's because you are a top 25 or so player in the league. Getting there multiple times shows your performance wasn't some one and done type thing. Winning All-NBA awards shows you were a top 5, 10 or 15 player in the league for that year. Kemba with three straight All-Star appearances and a 3rd Team All-NBA pretty much cements him as a top 20-25 player in the league.

The difference between a top 25 player in the league and Sexton, an inefficient shoot first PG that sucks at virtually everything else he does is gigantic. It's not even close.

As for playoff experience, he has played in the playoffs. He has averaged 21.5/4.7/3.3 in the playoffs while being the scoring option the other teams needed to shut down because everyone else basically sucked.

And being surrounded by terrible talent has been a problem for Kemba since he entered the league. It's why his usage rate is so high. Most years, Kemba was the only real scoring option on his team. He needed to overcome that and the last three years he has.

His last three years, he has played 241 out if 246 regular season games, been an All-Star each year averaging 23.7/5.7/3.8 while shooting slightly above average at 43.6/37.8/85.2 for a TS% just under 57%.

Kemba came into his prime 3 years ago and has been stellar, overall. If you want to believe that Sexton will eventually be better than the player that Kemba is now, fine. But to try to push the idea that currently Sexton isn't that much less of a player than Kemba, frankly just doesn't have much credence to it, IMHO.

And, I would say the same thing about Kyrie, Lillard, Westbrook, Lowry, Steph, Harden, CP3, Ben Simmons, Bledsoe, or Conley. All of those PGs are world's better than Sexton.

Credence? After all that spin.

Some accolades matter but three all stars one from injury alt. is special? Let's not also forget he was going to this year's no matter what.

His playoff career is a joke. You can't salvage that. Tatum and Brown did more and have more experience than him as two and three year pros. And it's not hard to make it in the East so Walker doesn't have a lot of excuses.

Kemba's career numbers show what he is. I am not going off this last year alone or last three years. I'm going by the player career wise because you do have to project when a guy ask would you rather have player X or two years of player Y. That was the question. Sexton is slightly ahead of where Walker was. Both similar size, speed and even shooting numbers from the go. TS would increase easily with more experience with working the calls, you aren't getting many as a rook.

 There are multiple breakdowns on Sexton and Kemba's year this year on youtube you can review them. Sexton made a lot of rookie mistakes often but he has a lot of skill and should improve on decision making. Kemba's all NBA season they compare to a poor man's Irving, (guess that is why Irving made 1st team).

Kemba as you said hit his prime a couple years ago currently he is career wise 19pts/4reb/6ast per, shooting 41%/35%/84% usage of 27 that's giving him three peak years of his career.
Sexton at 20 years old had 17/3/3 shooting 43%/40%/84% usage 25. Now
this past year Kemba at 28 had 26/4/6 but was nearly on par with his shooting career wise with 43/36/84. It was usage that was the main factor in pts at 31.

We can all agree Cavs as a team, if you can call them that were a lot worse than Hornets so that accounts for missed ast.

So as I said take the team and usage into account it makes Kemba marginally better than Sexton. Two years of Irving or a marginally worse Kemba on a rookie deal? Give me Sexton

And boom. Goodbye to people taking your posts seriously on this matter. You're ignoring the years where he's begun to enter his prime while maintaining good health because it doesn't serve your argument, and you're blaming one player for not dragging the worst organisation in the NBA to playoffs. Hilarious.

He ignored years. I didn't ignore any.

Ps should I add a "boom" and tell you that your post should now not be taken seriously?

Ignoring years is completely reasonable. How many people talk about Rondo's first 3 years when discussing how good he was? Or people with Kobe and his first 4 years? It's a ridiculous angle to take.

You're intentionally ignoring context in some desperate attempt to be correct because your take is way off.

Lol trying to switch and save face. You're a move the goal post kind of guy I see. Just say oops and move along. Your post are no longer taken seriously especially after this flip flop.

If you can't understand the difference between ignoring someone's prime that they are still in and ignoring someone's early years that have literally no impact on how they're playing now that's not my fault. I can't control your comprehension, or lack thereof.

So funny. You talk about comprehension and ignoring things from me. You need to look in the mirror because you just ignored the numbers that feature his all NBA vs his own career vs Sexton, the fact I didn't skip years, then you even flip flopped after trying to shame me. Now it's move the goal post Aaaagain.

So in case of moving the goal post... we need to now ignore Walker's younger years and only take specific years while Sexton was on his rookie year, also we need to remember how bad Walker's team was but not how bad Cavs are or the fact Sexton is playing with this all new worst teammates. Do I have that right?

It's all too funny


All hail Walker the new Celtic! Praise thy in Green

Do you really think Sexton will ever be an all star? I don’t think Cleveland even thinks that or they would not have taken a new point guard this year. He could be a nice scoring guard, but I think everyone on the board would give you many tommy points for years if he ever becomes a 3 time all star. Walker is probably going to end up a 5 or 6 time all star when all is said and done. He is a really good player

[obnoxiousmime]

Using Sexton as the possible alternative outcome is flawed since most don't consider him to be a very promising player.

If we're doing fun "what-ifs," the question should be whether you'd rather have Kyrie for the two years or Anthony Davis for half a season in 2018-2019 and a full season in 2019-2020. If Kyrie's contract isn't here, there wouldn't have been the technicality preventing Ainge from trading for Davis before the trade deadline last season. With the guarantee of Davis being here at least 1.5 seasons, it's quite possible he would have been willing to take the risk.

Of course it's an impossible question because not trading for Kyrie would have butterfly effect'd a lot of things. It's fun to ponder though.

[nickagneta]

Sexton because there wouldn't have been regression on this team or a need to keep guys like Rozier and Morris. Irving set the team back.

But Sexton is a very average player

Yes he is and we just gave a player who is marginally better a 4 year max contract.

Rofl. Completely off talent assessment. Please tell me what exactly is marginal about the difference between a 3x All-Star & All-NBA point guard vs a guy who put up a very inefficient 17PPG on one of the worst teams in the league, who also can't pass?

This is one of the most laughably wrong comparisons I've seen here in a while. Not quite Tacko = Wilt, but it's bad.

Take a look at the numbers not the awards. They are clearly closer than you think.

Ah yes, I forgot basketball is in fact all about stats! Silly me. Even if you were right and the stats were close (which they aren't) it wouldn't tell the story. Kemba nearly willed what is frankly a garbage roster to the playoffs.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1_hint=kemba+Walker&player_id1_select=Kemba+Walker&y1=2019&player_id1=walkeke02&idx=players&player_id2_hint=Collin+Sexton&player_id2_select=Collin+Sexton&y2=2019&player_id2=sextoco01&idx=players

Like the Cavs aren't a bad team.

Look at that usage rate and fg%. Sexton would score just as much and nearly as many ast with that usage.

Sorry man, I am with Gouki, this is a really really bad take. It is not even in the ballpark of reasonable. Probably best to just let it go. No offense.

Gotta agree.
 
https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1_hint=Kemba+Walker&player_id1_select=Kemba+Walker&y1=2019&player_id1=walkeke02&idx=players&player_id2_hint=Collin+Sexton&player_id2_select=Collin+Sexton&y2=2019&player_id2=sextoco01&idx=players

Here is the stat comparison. It's not even close. Evening things out with per36 numbers and Kemba is scoring over 7 PPG more and had double the amount of assists and steals and 4 times more blocks while shooting much better overall with TS% of 4 percentage points higher.

Then you add in the intangibles like proven experience, playoff experience, clutchness, leadership, accolades, and overall talent and you can easily see Sexton isn't anywhere close to being on Kemba's level.

Sorry but accolades? Guy hasn't won anything since college. Playoff experience.. how many playoffs has he won or made in his illustrious career? Leadership... wasnt Batum the guy in the past that many said was carrying the team before his injuries.

Where is the talk about usage rate, defense, or Walker's actual shooting? Let's not gloss over Walker's flaws since he is the Celtic. Let's look at the negatives. When another poster wrote on here some suggested Walker for Irving as his argument people liked Walker, I chuckled because there was a lot of negatives by the forum for Walker then. Now he is a Celtic and it's no more critiques.

Accolades matter because they show you performed on the court at an elite level. If you are constantly on All-Star teams it's because you are a top 25 or so player in the league. Getting there multiple times shows your performance wasn't some one and done type thing. Winning All-NBA awards shows you were a top 5, 10 or 15 player in the league for that year. Kemba with three straight All-Star appearances and a 3rd Team All-NBA pretty much cements him as a top 20-25 player in the league.

The difference between a top 25 player in the league and Sexton, an inefficient shoot first PG that sucks at virtually everything else he does is gigantic. It's not even close.

As for playoff experience, he has played in the playoffs. He has averaged 21.5/4.7/3.3 in the playoffs while being the scoring option the other teams needed to shut down because everyone else basically sucked.

And being surrounded by terrible talent has been a problem for Kemba since he entered the league. It's why his usage rate is so high. Most years, Kemba was the only real scoring option on his team. He needed to overcome that and the last three years he has.

His last three years, he has played 241 out if 246 regular season games, been an All-Star each year averaging 23.7/5.7/3.8 while shooting slightly above average at 43.6/37.8/85.2 for a TS% just under 57%.

Kemba came into his prime 3 years ago and has been stellar, overall. If you want to believe that Sexton will eventually be better than the player that Kemba is now, fine. But to try to push the idea that currently Sexton isn't that much less of a player than Kemba, frankly just doesn't have much credence to it, IMHO.

And, I would say the same thing about Kyrie, Lillard, Westbrook, Lowry, Steph, Harden, CP3, Ben Simmons, Bledsoe, or Conley. All of those PGs are world's better than Sexton.

Credence? After all that spin.

Some accolades matter but three all stars one from injury alt. is special? Let's not also forget he was going to this year's no matter what.

His playoff career is a joke. You can't salvage that. Tatum and Brown did more and have more experience than him as two and three year pros. And it's not hard to make it in the East so Walker doesn't have a lot of excuses.

Kemba's career numbers show what he is. I am not going off this last year alone or last three years. I'm going by the player career wise because you do have to project when a guy ask would you rather have player X or two years of player Y. That was the question. Sexton is slightly ahead of where Walker was. Both similar size, speed and even shooting numbers from the go. TS would increase easily with more experience with working the calls, you aren't getting many as a rook.

 There are multiple breakdowns on Sexton and Kemba's year this year on youtube you can review them. Sexton made a lot of rookie mistakes often but he has a lot of skill and should improve on decision making. Kemba's all NBA season they compare to a poor man's Irving, (guess that is why Irving made 1st team).

Kemba as you said hit his prime a couple years ago currently he is career wise 19pts/4reb/6ast per, shooting 41%/35%/84% usage of 27 that's giving him three peak years of his career.
Sexton at 20 years old had 17/3/3 shooting 43%/40%/84% usage 25. Now
this past year Kemba at 28 had 26/4/6 but was nearly on par with his shooting career wise with 43/36/84. It was usage that was the main factor in pts at 31.

We can all agree Cavs as a team, if you can call them that were a lot worse than Hornets so that accounts for missed ast.

So as I said take the team and usage into account it makes Kemba marginally better than Sexton. Two years of Irving or a marginally worse Kemba on a rookie deal? Give me Sexton

Please understand, that what I am trying to do is properly evaluate the player Kemba is right now, to the player Sexton is right now because you contend that right now Kemba is only slightly better than Sexton.

I contend that the All-Star and All-NBA accolades prove Kemba is a top 25 player in the league right now. I then contend, Sexton isn't close to being a top 25 player, therefore, Sexton can't be only slightly worse than Kemba.

You brought up that Kemba is inefficient and not a good shooter. I used his last three years of stats, because it was obvious, three years ago, Kemba took a massive step up in his game and became a different player. He became the player he is right now, so I discarded the earlier years because that isn't the player he is right now. That is obvious, take a look:

In Kemba's first 5 years:

17.3/5.3/3.7 shooting 40.3/33.4/82.3 with a TS% of 51%

In Kemba's next three years, All-Star years, the years Kemba has been the player he currently is:

23.7/5.7/3.8  shooting 43.6/37.8/85.2 with a TS% 56.8%.

So clearly, when talking about the player Kemba is now, the player he has shown to be the last three years, three years he was an All-Star and once voted All-NBA, it's best to take a look at those three years and talk about them. So Kemba right now is a better shooter and scorer than you give him credit for.

I brought up Kemba's playoff experience because he does have some experience. Sexton has none. That is huge. Kemba's playoff experience is definitely subjective but he, did lead his team in scoring and assists in two playoff series when surrounded by bad supporting casts. That's something at least and Sexton has never done that, so it really is important to consider when looking at how good each player is right now.

[Csfan1984]

Sexton because there wouldn't have been regression on this team or a need to keep guys like Rozier and Morris. Irving set the team back.

But Sexton is a very average player

Yes he is and we just gave a player who is marginally better a 4 year max contract.

Rofl. Completely off talent assessment. Please tell me what exactly is marginal about the difference between a 3x All-Star & All-NBA point guard vs a guy who put up a very inefficient 17PPG on one of the worst teams in the league, who also can't pass?

This is one of the most laughably wrong comparisons I've seen here in a while. Not quite Tacko = Wilt, but it's bad.

Take a look at the numbers not the awards. They are clearly closer than you think.

Ah yes, I forgot basketball is in fact all about stats! Silly me. Even if you were right and the stats were close (which they aren't) it wouldn't tell the story. Kemba nearly willed what is frankly a garbage roster to the playoffs.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1_hint=kemba+Walker&player_id1_select=Kemba+Walker&y1=2019&player_id1=walkeke02&idx=players&player_id2_hint=Collin+Sexton&player_id2_select=Collin+Sexton&y2=2019&player_id2=sextoco01&idx=players

Like the Cavs aren't a bad team.

Look at that usage rate and fg%. Sexton would score just as much and nearly as many ast with that usage.

Sorry man, I am with Gouki, this is a really really bad take. It is not even in the ballpark of reasonable. Probably best to just let it go. No offense.

Gotta agree.
 
https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1_hint=Kemba+Walker&player_id1_select=Kemba+Walker&y1=2019&player_id1=walkeke02&idx=players&player_id2_hint=Collin+Sexton&player_id2_select=Collin+Sexton&y2=2019&player_id2=sextoco01&idx=players

Here is the stat comparison. It's not even close. Evening things out with per36 numbers and Kemba is scoring over 7 PPG more and had double the amount of assists and steals and 4 times more blocks while shooting much better overall with TS% of 4 percentage points higher.

Then you add in the intangibles like proven experience, playoff experience, clutchness, leadership, accolades, and overall talent and you can easily see Sexton isn't anywhere close to being on Kemba's level.

Sorry but accolades? Guy hasn't won anything since college. Playoff experience.. how many playoffs has he won or made in his illustrious career? Leadership... wasnt Batum the guy in the past that many said was carrying the team before his injuries.

Where is the talk about usage rate, defense, or Walker's actual shooting? Let's not gloss over Walker's flaws since he is the Celtic. Let's look at the negatives. When another poster wrote on here some suggested Walker for Irving as his argument people liked Walker, I chuckled because there was a lot of negatives by the forum for Walker then. Now he is a Celtic and it's no more critiques.

Accolades matter because they show you performed on the court at an elite level. If you are constantly on All-Star teams it's because you are a top 25 or so player in the league. Getting there multiple times shows your performance wasn't some one and done type thing. Winning All-NBA awards shows you were a top 5, 10 or 15 player in the league for that year. Kemba with three straight All-Star appearances and a 3rd Team All-NBA pretty much cements him as a top 20-25 player in the league.

The difference between a top 25 player in the league and Sexton, an inefficient shoot first PG that sucks at virtually everything else he does is gigantic. It's not even close.

As for playoff experience, he has played in the playoffs. He has averaged 21.5/4.7/3.3 in the playoffs while being the scoring option the other teams needed to shut down because everyone else basically sucked.

And being surrounded by terrible talent has been a problem for Kemba since he entered the league. It's why his usage rate is so high. Most years, Kemba was the only real scoring option on his team. He needed to overcome that and the last three years he has.

His last three years, he has played 241 out if 246 regular season games, been an All-Star each year averaging 23.7/5.7/3.8 while shooting slightly above average at 43.6/37.8/85.2 for a TS% just under 57%.

Kemba came into his prime 3 years ago and has been stellar, overall. If you want to believe that Sexton will eventually be better than the player that Kemba is now, fine. But to try to push the idea that currently Sexton isn't that much less of a player than Kemba, frankly just doesn't have much credence to it, IMHO.

And, I would say the same thing about Kyrie, Lillard, Westbrook, Lowry, Steph, Harden, CP3, Ben Simmons, Bledsoe, or Conley. All of those PGs are world's better than Sexton.

Credence? After all that spin.

Some accolades matter but three all stars one from injury alt. is special? Let's not also forget he was going to this year's no matter what.

His playoff career is a joke. You can't salvage that. Tatum and Brown did more and have more experience than him as two and three year pros. And it's not hard to make it in the East so Walker doesn't have a lot of excuses.

Kemba's career numbers show what he is. I am not going off this last year alone or last three years. I'm going by the player career wise because you do have to project when a guy ask would you rather have player X or two years of player Y. That was the question. Sexton is slightly ahead of where Walker was. Both similar size, speed and even shooting numbers from the go. TS would increase easily with more experience with working the calls, you aren't getting many as a rook.

 There are multiple breakdowns on Sexton and Kemba's year this year on youtube you can review them. Sexton made a lot of rookie mistakes often but he has a lot of skill and should improve on decision making. Kemba's all NBA season they compare to a poor man's Irving, (guess that is why Irving made 1st team).

Kemba as you said hit his prime a couple years ago currently he is career wise 19pts/4reb/6ast per, shooting 41%/35%/84% usage of 27 that's giving him three peak years of his career.
Sexton at 20 years old had 17/3/3 shooting 43%/40%/84% usage 25. Now
this past year Kemba at 28 had 26/4/6 but was nearly on par with his shooting career wise with 43/36/84. It was usage that was the main factor in pts at 31.

We can all agree Cavs as a team, if you can call them that were a lot worse than Hornets so that accounts for missed ast.

So as I said take the team and usage into account it makes Kemba marginally better than Sexton. Two years of Irving or a marginally worse Kemba on a rookie deal? Give me Sexton

Please understand, that what I am trying to do is properly evaluate the player Kemba is right now, to the player Sexton is right now because you contend that right now Kemba is only slightly better than Sexton.

I contend that the All-Star and All-NBA accolades prove Kemba is a top 25 player in the league right now. I then contend, Sexton isn't close to being a top 25 player, therefore, Sexton can't be only slightly worse than Kemba.

You brought up that Kemba is inefficient and not a good shooter. I used his last three years of stats, because it was obvious, three years ago, Kemba took a massive step up in his game and became a different player. He became the player he is right now, so I discarded the earlier years because that isn't the player he is right now. That is obvious, take a look:

In Kemba's first 5 years:

17.3/5.3/3.7 shooting 40.3/33.4/82.3 with a TS% of 51%

In Kemba's next three years, All-Star years, the years Kemba has been the player he currently is:

23.7/5.7/3.8  shooting 43.6/37.8/85.2 with a TS% 56.8%.

So clearly, when talking about the player Kemba is now, the player he has shown to be the last three years, three years he was an All-Star and once voted All-NBA, it's best to take a look at those three years and talk about them. So Kemba right now is a better shooter and scorer than you give him credit for.

I brought up Kemba's playoff experience because he does have some experience. Sexton has none. That is huge. Kemba's playoff experience is definitely subjective but he, did lead his team in scoring and assists in two playoff series when surrounded by bad supporting casts. That's something at least and Sexton has never done that, so it really is important to consider when looking at how good each player is right now.

See I still find a problem though even when you look at the right now. We made excuses for Kemba but regardless those are not efficient numbers. He has experienced players playing with him. I am giving all the credit he has earned IMHO. I'm not trolling but offering fair warning that Kemba is not the star people make him out to be. I made very good counter points and I feel no one is looking at what Sexton dealt with and dismiss the negatives of Kemba. I want to believe in Kemba but his play, those numbers and NBA career is not impressive at all.

[bdm860]

In Kemba's next three years, All-Star years, the years Kemba has been the player he currently is:

23.7/5.7/3.8  shooting 43.6/37.8/85.2 with a TS% 56.8%.

We made excuses for Kemba but regardless those are not efficient numbers.

Tried to cut out all the other stuff for simplicity, so if I'm taking your response out of context let me know, but are you calling those numbers inefficient?  Any TS% above the league average I'd consider efficient, regardless of what the individual splits are.

What do you think efficient numbers would be?

[nickagneta]

In Kemba's next three years, All-Star years, the years Kemba has been the player he currently is:

23.7/5.7/3.8  shooting 43.6/37.8/85.2 with a TS% 56.8%.

We made excuses for Kemba but regardless those are not efficient numbers.

Tried to cut out all the other stuff for simplicity, so if I'm taking your response out of context let me know, but are you calling those numbers inefficient?  Any TS% above the league average I'd consider efficient, regardless of what the individual splits are.

What do you think efficient numbers would be?

Yeah, it's why I posted his last three year's stats. Kemba's total career shooting numbers are slightly below average. But in the first 5 years his numbers were not good at all. Then Kemba got a lot better. The player he is today is a player that shoots for volume, yes, but is a slightly above average shooter and so, is an efficient scorer.

[celticsclay]

Sexton because there wouldn't have been regression on this team or a need to keep guys like Rozier and Morris. Irving set the team back.

But Sexton is a very average player

Yes he is and we just gave a player who is marginally better a 4 year max contract.

Rofl. Completely off talent assessment. Please tell me what exactly is marginal about the difference between a 3x All-Star & All-NBA point guard vs a guy who put up a very inefficient 17PPG on one of the worst teams in the league, who also can't pass?

This is one of the most laughably wrong comparisons I've seen here in a while. Not quite Tacko = Wilt, but it's bad.

Take a look at the numbers not the awards. They are clearly closer than you think.

Ah yes, I forgot basketball is in fact all about stats! Silly me. Even if you were right and the stats were close (which they aren't) it wouldn't tell the story. Kemba nearly willed what is frankly a garbage roster to the playoffs.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1_hint=kemba+Walker&player_id1_select=Kemba+Walker&y1=2019&player_id1=walkeke02&idx=players&player_id2_hint=Collin+Sexton&player_id2_select=Collin+Sexton&y2=2019&player_id2=sextoco01&idx=players

Like the Cavs aren't a bad team.

Look at that usage rate and fg%. Sexton would score just as much and nearly as many ast with that usage.

Sorry man, I am with Gouki, this is a really really bad take. It is not even in the ballpark of reasonable. Probably best to just let it go. No offense.

Gotta agree.
 
https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1_hint=Kemba+Walker&player_id1_select=Kemba+Walker&y1=2019&player_id1=walkeke02&idx=players&player_id2_hint=Collin+Sexton&player_id2_select=Collin+Sexton&y2=2019&player_id2=sextoco01&idx=players

Here is the stat comparison. It's not even close. Evening things out with per36 numbers and Kemba is scoring over 7 PPG more and had double the amount of assists and steals and 4 times more blocks while shooting much better overall with TS% of 4 percentage points higher.

Then you add in the intangibles like proven experience, playoff experience, clutchness, leadership, accolades, and overall talent and you can easily see Sexton isn't anywhere close to being on Kemba's level.

Sorry but accolades? Guy hasn't won anything since college. Playoff experience.. how many playoffs has he won or made in his illustrious career? Leadership... wasnt Batum the guy in the past that many said was carrying the team before his injuries.

Where is the talk about usage rate, defense, or Walker's actual shooting? Let's not gloss over Walker's flaws since he is the Celtic. Let's look at the negatives. When another poster wrote on here some suggested Walker for Irving as his argument people liked Walker, I chuckled because there was a lot of negatives by the forum for Walker then. Now he is a Celtic and it's no more critiques.

Accolades matter because they show you performed on the court at an elite level. If you are constantly on All-Star teams it's because you are a top 25 or so player in the league. Getting there multiple times shows your performance wasn't some one and done type thing. Winning All-NBA awards shows you were a top 5, 10 or 15 player in the league for that year. Kemba with three straight All-Star appearances and a 3rd Team All-NBA pretty much cements him as a top 20-25 player in the league.

The difference between a top 25 player in the league and Sexton, an inefficient shoot first PG that sucks at virtually everything else he does is gigantic. It's not even close.

As for playoff experience, he has played in the playoffs. He has averaged 21.5/4.7/3.3 in the playoffs while being the scoring option the other teams needed to shut down because everyone else basically sucked.

And being surrounded by terrible talent has been a problem for Kemba since he entered the league. It's why his usage rate is so high. Most years, Kemba was the only real scoring option on his team. He needed to overcome that and the last three years he has.

His last three years, he has played 241 out if 246 regular season games, been an All-Star each year averaging 23.7/5.7/3.8 while shooting slightly above average at 43.6/37.8/85.2 for a TS% just under 57%.

Kemba came into his prime 3 years ago and has been stellar, overall. If you want to believe that Sexton will eventually be better than the player that Kemba is now, fine. But to try to push the idea that currently Sexton isn't that much less of a player than Kemba, frankly just doesn't have much credence to it, IMHO.

And, I would say the same thing about Kyrie, Lillard, Westbrook, Lowry, Steph, Harden, CP3, Ben Simmons, Bledsoe, or Conley. All of those PGs are world's better than Sexton.

Credence? After all that spin.

Some accolades matter but three all stars one from injury alt. is special? Let's not also forget he was going to this year's no matter what.

His playoff career is a joke. You can't salvage that. Tatum and Brown did more and have more experience than him as two and three year pros. And it's not hard to make it in the East so Walker doesn't have a lot of excuses.

Kemba's career numbers show what he is. I am not going off this last year alone or last three years. I'm going by the player career wise because you do have to project when a guy ask would you rather have player X or two years of player Y. That was the question. Sexton is slightly ahead of where Walker was. Both similar size, speed and even shooting numbers from the go. TS would increase easily with more experience with working the calls, you aren't getting many as a rook.

 There are multiple breakdowns on Sexton and Kemba's year this year on youtube you can review them. Sexton made a lot of rookie mistakes often but he has a lot of skill and should improve on decision making. Kemba's all NBA season they compare to a poor man's Irving, (guess that is why Irving made 1st team).

Kemba as you said hit his prime a couple years ago currently he is career wise 19pts/4reb/6ast per, shooting 41%/35%/84% usage of 27 that's giving him three peak years of his career.
Sexton at 20 years old had 17/3/3 shooting 43%/40%/84% usage 25. Now
this past year Kemba at 28 had 26/4/6 but was nearly on par with his shooting career wise with 43/36/84. It was usage that was the main factor in pts at 31.

We can all agree Cavs as a team, if you can call them that were a lot worse than Hornets so that accounts for missed ast.

So as I said take the team and usage into account it makes Kemba marginally better than Sexton. Two years of Irving or a marginally worse Kemba on a rookie deal? Give me Sexton

And boom. Goodbye to people taking your posts seriously on this matter. You're ignoring the years where he's begun to enter his prime while maintaining good health because it doesn't serve your argument, and you're blaming one player for not dragging the worst organisation in the NBA to playoffs. Hilarious.

He ignored years. I didn't ignore any.

Ps should I add a "boom" and tell you that your post should now not be taken seriously?

Ignoring years is completely reasonable. How many people talk about Rondo's first 3 years when discussing how good he was? Or people with Kobe and his first 4 years? It's a ridiculous angle to take.

You're intentionally ignoring context in some desperate attempt to be correct because your take is way off.

Lol trying to switch and save face. You're a move the goal post kind of guy I see. Just say oops and move along. Your post are no longer taken seriously especially after this flip flop.

If you can't understand the difference between ignoring someone's prime that they are still in and ignoring someone's early years that have literally no impact on how they're playing now that's not my fault. I can't control your comprehension, or lack thereof.

So funny. You talk about comprehension and ignoring things from me. You need to look in the mirror because you just ignored the numbers that feature his all NBA vs his own career vs Sexton, the fact I didn't skip years, then you even flip flopped after trying to shame me. Now it's move the goal post Aaaagain.

So in case of moving the goal post... we need to now ignore Walker's younger years and only take specific years while Sexton was on his rookie year, also we need to remember how bad Walker's team was but not how bad Cavs are or the fact Sexton is playing with this all new worst teammates. Do I have that right?

It's all too funny


All hail Walker the new Celtic! Praise thy in Green

You really think Sexton ends up 4-5 time all star? I really haven't seen a single person suggest that.

[Csfan1984]

Sexton because there wouldn't have been regression on this team or a need to keep guys like Rozier and Morris. Irving set the team back.

But Sexton is a very average player

Yes he is and we just gave a player who is marginally better a 4 year max contract.

Rofl. Completely off talent assessment. Please tell me what exactly is marginal about the difference between a 3x All-Star & All-NBA point guard vs a guy who put up a very inefficient 17PPG on one of the worst teams in the league, who also can't pass?

This is one of the most laughably wrong comparisons I've seen here in a while. Not quite Tacko = Wilt, but it's bad.

Take a look at the numbers not the awards. They are clearly closer than you think.

Ah yes, I forgot basketball is in fact all about stats! Silly me. Even if you were right and the stats were close (which they aren't) it wouldn't tell the story. Kemba nearly willed what is frankly a garbage roster to the playoffs.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1_hint=kemba+Walker&player_id1_select=Kemba+Walker&y1=2019&player_id1=walkeke02&idx=players&player_id2_hint=Collin+Sexton&player_id2_select=Collin+Sexton&y2=2019&player_id2=sextoco01&idx=players

Like the Cavs aren't a bad team.

Look at that usage rate and fg%. Sexton would score just as much and nearly as many ast with that usage.

Sorry man, I am with Gouki, this is a really really bad take. It is not even in the ballpark of reasonable. Probably best to just let it go. No offense.

Gotta agree.
 
https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1_hint=Kemba+Walker&player_id1_select=Kemba+Walker&y1=2019&player_id1=walkeke02&idx=players&player_id2_hint=Collin+Sexton&player_id2_select=Collin+Sexton&y2=2019&player_id2=sextoco01&idx=players

Here is the stat comparison. It's not even close. Evening things out with per36 numbers and Kemba is scoring over 7 PPG more and had double the amount of assists and steals and 4 times more blocks while shooting much better overall with TS% of 4 percentage points higher.

Then you add in the intangibles like proven experience, playoff experience, clutchness, leadership, accolades, and overall talent and you can easily see Sexton isn't anywhere close to being on Kemba's level.

Sorry but accolades? Guy hasn't won anything since college. Playoff experience.. how many playoffs has he won or made in his illustrious career? Leadership... wasnt Batum the guy in the past that many said was carrying the team before his injuries.

Where is the talk about usage rate, defense, or Walker's actual shooting? Let's not gloss over Walker's flaws since he is the Celtic. Let's look at the negatives. When another poster wrote on here some suggested Walker for Irving as his argument people liked Walker, I chuckled because there was a lot of negatives by the forum for Walker then. Now he is a Celtic and it's no more critiques.

Accolades matter because they show you performed on the court at an elite level. If you are constantly on All-Star teams it's because you are a top 25 or so player in the league. Getting there multiple times shows your performance wasn't some one and done type thing. Winning All-NBA awards shows you were a top 5, 10 or 15 player in the league for that year. Kemba with three straight All-Star appearances and a 3rd Team All-NBA pretty much cements him as a top 20-25 player in the league.

The difference between a top 25 player in the league and Sexton, an inefficient shoot first PG that sucks at virtually everything else he does is gigantic. It's not even close.

As for playoff experience, he has played in the playoffs. He has averaged 21.5/4.7/3.3 in the playoffs while being the scoring option the other teams needed to shut down because everyone else basically sucked.

And being surrounded by terrible talent has been a problem for Kemba since he entered the league. It's why his usage rate is so high. Most years, Kemba was the only real scoring option on his team. He needed to overcome that and the last three years he has.

His last three years, he has played 241 out if 246 regular season games, been an All-Star each year averaging 23.7/5.7/3.8 while shooting slightly above average at 43.6/37.8/85.2 for a TS% just under 57%.

Kemba came into his prime 3 years ago and has been stellar, overall. If you want to believe that Sexton will eventually be better than the player that Kemba is now, fine. But to try to push the idea that currently Sexton isn't that much less of a player than Kemba, frankly just doesn't have much credence to it, IMHO.

And, I would say the same thing about Kyrie, Lillard, Westbrook, Lowry, Steph, Harden, CP3, Ben Simmons, Bledsoe, or Conley. All of those PGs are world's better than Sexton.

Credence? After all that spin.

Some accolades matter but three all stars one from injury alt. is special? Let's not also forget he was going to this year's no matter what.

His playoff career is a joke. You can't salvage that. Tatum and Brown did more and have more experience than him as two and three year pros. And it's not hard to make it in the East so Walker doesn't have a lot of excuses.

Kemba's career numbers show what he is. I am not going off this last year alone or last three years. I'm going by the player career wise because you do have to project when a guy ask would you rather have player X or two years of player Y. That was the question. Sexton is slightly ahead of where Walker was. Both similar size, speed and even shooting numbers from the go. TS would increase easily with more experience with working the calls, you aren't getting many as a rook.

 There are multiple breakdowns on Sexton and Kemba's year this year on youtube you can review them. Sexton made a lot of rookie mistakes often but he has a lot of skill and should improve on decision making. Kemba's all NBA season they compare to a poor man's Irving, (guess that is why Irving made 1st team).

Kemba as you said hit his prime a couple years ago currently he is career wise 19pts/4reb/6ast per, shooting 41%/35%/84% usage of 27 that's giving him three peak years of his career.
Sexton at 20 years old had 17/3/3 shooting 43%/40%/84% usage 25. Now
this past year Kemba at 28 had 26/4/6 but was nearly on par with his shooting career wise with 43/36/84. It was usage that was the main factor in pts at 31.

We can all agree Cavs as a team, if you can call them that were a lot worse than Hornets so that accounts for missed ast.

So as I said take the team and usage into account it makes Kemba marginally better than Sexton. Two years of Irving or a marginally worse Kemba on a rookie deal? Give me Sexton

And boom. Goodbye to people taking your posts seriously on this matter. You're ignoring the years where he's begun to enter his prime while maintaining good health because it doesn't serve your argument, and you're blaming one player for not dragging the worst organisation in the NBA to playoffs. Hilarious.

He ignored years. I didn't ignore any.

Ps should I add a "boom" and tell you that your post should now not be taken seriously?

Ignoring years is completely reasonable. How many people talk about Rondo's first 3 years when discussing how good he was? Or people with Kobe and his first 4 years? It's a ridiculous angle to take.

You're intentionally ignoring context in some desperate attempt to be correct because your take is way off.

Lol trying to switch and save face. You're a move the goal post kind of guy I see. Just say oops and move along. Your post are no longer taken seriously especially after this flip flop.

If you can't understand the difference between ignoring someone's prime that they are still in and ignoring someone's early years that have literally no impact on how they're playing now that's not my fault. I can't control your comprehension, or lack thereof.

So funny. You talk about comprehension and ignoring things from me. You need to look in the mirror because you just ignored the numbers that feature his all NBA vs his own career vs Sexton, the fact I didn't skip years, then you even flip flopped after trying to shame me. Now it's move the goal post Aaaagain.

So in case of moving the goal post... we need to now ignore Walker's younger years and only take specific years while Sexton was on his rookie year, also we need to remember how bad Walker's team was but not how bad Cavs are or the fact Sexton is playing with this all new worst teammates. Do I have that right?

It's all too funny


All hail Walker the new Celtic! Praise thy in Green

You really think Sexton ends up 4-5 time all star? I really haven't seen a single person suggest that.

I didn't say or suggest such. Don't put words in my mouth.

[CelticsElite]

Sexton because there wouldn't have been regression on this team or a need to keep guys like Rozier and Morris. Irving set the team back.

But Sexton is a very average player

Yes he is and we just gave a player who is marginally better a 4 year max contract.

Rofl. Completely off talent assessment. Please tell me what exactly is marginal about the difference between a 3x All-Star & All-NBA point guard vs a guy who put up a very inefficient 17PPG on one of the worst teams in the league, who also can't pass?

This is one of the most laughably wrong comparisons I've seen here in a while. Not quite Tacko = Wilt, but it's bad.

Take a look at the numbers not the awards. They are clearly closer than you think.

Ah yes, I forgot basketball is in fact all about stats! Silly me. Even if you were right and the stats were close (which they aren't) it wouldn't tell the story. Kemba nearly willed what is frankly a garbage roster to the playoffs.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1_hint=kemba+Walker&player_id1_select=Kemba+Walker&y1=2019&player_id1=walkeke02&idx=players&player_id2_hint=Collin+Sexton&player_id2_select=Collin+Sexton&y2=2019&player_id2=sextoco01&idx=players

Like the Cavs aren't a bad team.

Look at that usage rate and fg%. Sexton would score just as much and nearly as many ast with that usage.

Sorry man, I am with Gouki, this is a really really bad take. It is not even in the ballpark of reasonable. Probably best to just let it go. No offense.

Gotta agree.
 
https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1_hint=Kemba+Walker&player_id1_select=Kemba+Walker&y1=2019&player_id1=walkeke02&idx=players&player_id2_hint=Collin+Sexton&player_id2_select=Collin+Sexton&y2=2019&player_id2=sextoco01&idx=players

Here is the stat comparison. It's not even close. Evening things out with per36 numbers and Kemba is scoring over 7 PPG more and had double the amount of assists and steals and 4 times more blocks while shooting much better overall with TS% of 4 percentage points higher.

Then you add in the intangibles like proven experience, playoff experience, clutchness, leadership, accolades, and overall talent and you can easily see Sexton isn't anywhere close to being on Kemba's level.

Sorry but accolades? Guy hasn't won anything since college. Playoff experience.. how many playoffs has he won or made in his illustrious career? Leadership... wasnt Batum the guy in the past that many said was carrying the team before his injuries.

Where is the talk about usage rate, defense, or Walker's actual shooting? Let's not gloss over Walker's flaws since he is the Celtic. Let's look at the negatives. When another poster wrote on here some suggested Walker for Irving as his argument people liked Walker, I chuckled because there was a lot of negatives by the forum for Walker then. Now he is a Celtic and it's no more critiques.

Accolades matter because they show you performed on the court at an elite level. If you are constantly on All-Star teams it's because you are a top 25 or so player in the league. Getting there multiple times shows your performance wasn't some one and done type thing. Winning All-NBA awards shows you were a top 5, 10 or 15 player in the league for that year. Kemba with three straight All-Star appearances and a 3rd Team All-NBA pretty much cements him as a top 20-25 player in the league.

The difference between a top 25 player in the league and Sexton, an inefficient shoot first PG that sucks at virtually everything else he does is gigantic. It's not even close.

As for playoff experience, he has played in the playoffs. He has averaged 21.5/4.7/3.3 in the playoffs while being the scoring option the other teams needed to shut down because everyone else basically sucked.

And being surrounded by terrible talent has been a problem for Kemba since he entered the league. It's why his usage rate is so high. Most years, Kemba was the only real scoring option on his team. He needed to overcome that and the last three years he has.

His last three years, he has played 241 out if 246 regular season games, been an All-Star each year averaging 23.7/5.7/3.8 while shooting slightly above average at 43.6/37.8/85.2 for a TS% just under 57%.

Kemba came into his prime 3 years ago and has been stellar, overall. If you want to believe that Sexton will eventually be better than the player that Kemba is now, fine. But to try to push the idea that currently Sexton isn't that much less of a player than Kemba, frankly just doesn't have much credence to it, IMHO.

And, I would say the same thing about Kyrie, Lillard, Westbrook, Lowry, Steph, Harden, CP3, Ben Simmons, Bledsoe, or Conley. All of those PGs are world's better than Sexton.

Credence? After all that spin.

Some accolades matter but three all stars one from injury alt. is special? Let's not also forget he was going to this year's no matter what.

His playoff career is a joke. You can't salvage that. Tatum and Brown did more and have more experience than him as two and three year pros. And it's not hard to make it in the East so Walker doesn't have a lot of excuses.

Kemba's career numbers show what he is. I am not going off this last year alone or last three years. I'm going by the player career wise because you do have to project when a guy ask would you rather have player X or two years of player Y. That was the question. Sexton is slightly ahead of where Walker was. Both similar size, speed and even shooting numbers from the go. TS would increase easily with more experience with working the calls, you aren't getting many as a rook.

 There are multiple breakdowns on Sexton and Kemba's year this year on youtube you can review them. Sexton made a lot of rookie mistakes often but he has a lot of skill and should improve on decision making. Kemba's all NBA season they compare to a poor man's Irving, (guess that is why Irving made 1st team).

Kemba as you said hit his prime a couple years ago currently he is career wise 19pts/4reb/6ast per, shooting 41%/35%/84% usage of 27 that's giving him three peak years of his career.
Sexton at 20 years old had 17/3/3 shooting 43%/40%/84% usage 25. Now
this past year Kemba at 28 had 26/4/6 but was nearly on par with his shooting career wise with 43/36/84. It was usage that was the main factor in pts at 31.

We can all agree Cavs as a team, if you can call them that were a lot worse than Hornets so that accounts for missed ast.

So as I said take the team and usage into account it makes Kemba marginally better than Sexton. Two years of Irving or a marginally worse Kemba on a rookie deal? Give me Sexton

And boom. Goodbye to people taking your posts seriously on this matter. You're ignoring the years where he's begun to enter his prime while maintaining good health because it doesn't serve your argument, and you're blaming one player for not dragging the worst organisation in the NBA to playoffs. Hilarious.

He ignored years. I didn't ignore any.

Ps should I add a "boom" and tell you that your post should now not be taken seriously?

Ignoring years is completely reasonable. How many people talk about Rondo's first 3 years when discussing how good he was? Or people with Kobe and his first 4 years? It's a ridiculous angle to take.

You're intentionally ignoring context in some desperate attempt to be correct because your take is way off.

Lol trying to switch and save face. You're a move the goal post kind of guy I see. Just say oops and move along. Your post are no longer taken seriously especially after this flip flop.

If you can't understand the difference between ignoring someone's prime that they are still in and ignoring someone's early years that have literally no impact on how they're playing now that's not my fault. I can't control your comprehension, or lack thereof.

So funny. You talk about comprehension and ignoring things from me. You need to look in the mirror because you just ignored the numbers that feature his all NBA vs his own career vs Sexton, the fact I didn't skip years, then you even flip flopped after trying to shame me. Now it's move the goal post Aaaagain.

So in case of moving the goal post... we need to now ignore Walker's younger years and only take specific years while Sexton was on his rookie year, also we need to remember how bad Walker's team was but not how bad Cavs are or the fact Sexton is playing with this all new worst teammates. Do I have that right?

It's all too funny


All hail Walker the new Celtic! Praise thy in Green

You really think Sexton ends up 4-5 time all star? I really haven't seen a single person suggest that.

I didn't say or suggest such. Don't put words in my mouth.

cavs gave up on sexton when they drafted garland. There's no planet on earth where you can play 2 5'11 guards and expect there to be anything resembling defense

[Csfan1984]

In Kemba's next three years, All-Star years, the years Kemba has been the player he currently is:

23.7/5.7/3.8  shooting 43.6/37.8/85.2 with a TS% 56.8%.

We made excuses for Kemba but regardless those are not efficient numbers.

Tried to cut out all the other stuff for simplicity, so if I'm taking your response out of context let me know, but are you calling those numbers inefficient?  Any TS% above the league average I'd consider efficient, regardless of what the individual splits are.

What do you think efficient numbers would be?

For high volume it needs to be much better or he needs to give the ball up.

If people are right and he becomes a better distributor than you can live with his current numbers. He needs to at least be were Irving was with the C's at disturbing (not asking for higher shooting give Walker's career) he can't be what he was with the Hornets or we will be in worse shape than we were with Irving.

[Csfan1984]

Sexton because there wouldn't have been regression on this team or a need to keep guys like Rozier and Morris. Irving set the team back.

But Sexton is a very average player

Yes he is and we just gave a player who is marginally better a 4 year max contract.

Rofl. Completely off talent assessment. Please tell me what exactly is marginal about the difference between a 3x All-Star & All-NBA point guard vs a guy who put up a very inefficient 17PPG on one of the worst teams in the league, who also can't pass?

This is one of the most laughably wrong comparisons I've seen here in a while. Not quite Tacko = Wilt, but it's bad.

Take a look at the numbers not the awards. They are clearly closer than you think.

Ah yes, I forgot basketball is in fact all about stats! Silly me. Even if you were right and the stats were close (which they aren't) it wouldn't tell the story. Kemba nearly willed what is frankly a garbage roster to the playoffs.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1_hint=kemba+Walker&player_id1_select=Kemba+Walker&y1=2019&player_id1=walkeke02&idx=players&player_id2_hint=Collin+Sexton&player_id2_select=Collin+Sexton&y2=2019&player_id2=sextoco01&idx=players

Like the Cavs aren't a bad team.

Look at that usage rate and fg%. Sexton would score just as much and nearly as many ast with that usage.

Sorry man, I am with Gouki, this is a really really bad take. It is not even in the ballpark of reasonable. Probably best to just let it go. No offense.

Gotta agree.
 
https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1_hint=Kemba+Walker&player_id1_select=Kemba+Walker&y1=2019&player_id1=walkeke02&idx=players&player_id2_hint=Collin+Sexton&player_id2_select=Collin+Sexton&y2=2019&player_id2=sextoco01&idx=players

Here is the stat comparison. It's not even close. Evening things out with per36 numbers and Kemba is scoring over 7 PPG more and had double the amount of assists and steals and 4 times more blocks while shooting much better overall with TS% of 4 percentage points higher.

Then you add in the intangibles like proven experience, playoff experience, clutchness, leadership, accolades, and overall talent and you can easily see Sexton isn't anywhere close to being on Kemba's level.

Sorry but accolades? Guy hasn't won anything since college. Playoff experience.. how many playoffs has he won or made in his illustrious career? Leadership... wasnt Batum the guy in the past that many said was carrying the team before his injuries.

Where is the talk about usage rate, defense, or Walker's actual shooting? Let's not gloss over Walker's flaws since he is the Celtic. Let's look at the negatives. When another poster wrote on here some suggested Walker for Irving as his argument people liked Walker, I chuckled because there was a lot of negatives by the forum for Walker then. Now he is a Celtic and it's no more critiques.

Accolades matter because they show you performed on the court at an elite level. If you are constantly on All-Star teams it's because you are a top 25 or so player in the league. Getting there multiple times shows your performance wasn't some one and done type thing. Winning All-NBA awards shows you were a top 5, 10 or 15 player in the league for that year. Kemba with three straight All-Star appearances and a 3rd Team All-NBA pretty much cements him as a top 20-25 player in the league.

The difference between a top 25 player in the league and Sexton, an inefficient shoot first PG that sucks at virtually everything else he does is gigantic. It's not even close.

As for playoff experience, he has played in the playoffs. He has averaged 21.5/4.7/3.3 in the playoffs while being the scoring option the other teams needed to shut down because everyone else basically sucked.

And being surrounded by terrible talent has been a problem for Kemba since he entered the league. It's why his usage rate is so high. Most years, Kemba was the only real scoring option on his team. He needed to overcome that and the last three years he has.

His last three years, he has played 241 out if 246 regular season games, been an All-Star each year averaging 23.7/5.7/3.8 while shooting slightly above average at 43.6/37.8/85.2 for a TS% just under 57%.

Kemba came into his prime 3 years ago and has been stellar, overall. If you want to believe that Sexton will eventually be better than the player that Kemba is now, fine. But to try to push the idea that currently Sexton isn't that much less of a player than Kemba, frankly just doesn't have much credence to it, IMHO.

And, I would say the same thing about Kyrie, Lillard, Westbrook, Lowry, Steph, Harden, CP3, Ben Simmons, Bledsoe, or Conley. All of those PGs are world's better than Sexton.

Credence? After all that spin.

Some accolades matter but three all stars one from injury alt. is special? Let's not also forget he was going to this year's no matter what.

His playoff career is a joke. You can't salvage that. Tatum and Brown did more and have more experience than him as two and three year pros. And it's not hard to make it in the East so Walker doesn't have a lot of excuses.

Kemba's career numbers show what he is. I am not going off this last year alone or last three years. I'm going by the player career wise because you do have to project when a guy ask would you rather have player X or two years of player Y. That was the question. Sexton is slightly ahead of where Walker was. Both similar size, speed and even shooting numbers from the go. TS would increase easily with more experience with working the calls, you aren't getting many as a rook.

 There are multiple breakdowns on Sexton and Kemba's year this year on youtube you can review them. Sexton made a lot of rookie mistakes often but he has a lot of skill and should improve on decision making. Kemba's all NBA season they compare to a poor man's Irving, (guess that is why Irving made 1st team).

Kemba as you said hit his prime a couple years ago currently he is career wise 19pts/4reb/6ast per, shooting 41%/35%/84% usage of 27 that's giving him three peak years of his career.
Sexton at 20 years old had 17/3/3 shooting 43%/40%/84% usage 25. Now
this past year Kemba at 28 had 26/4/6 but was nearly on par with his shooting career wise with 43/36/84. It was usage that was the main factor in pts at 31.

We can all agree Cavs as a team, if you can call them that were a lot worse than Hornets so that accounts for missed ast.

So as I said take the team and usage into account it makes Kemba marginally better than Sexton. Two years of Irving or a marginally worse Kemba on a rookie deal? Give me Sexton

And boom. Goodbye to people taking your posts seriously on this matter. You're ignoring the years where he's begun to enter his prime while maintaining good health because it doesn't serve your argument, and you're blaming one player for not dragging the worst organisation in the NBA to playoffs. Hilarious.

He ignored years. I didn't ignore any.

Ps should I add a "boom" and tell you that your post should now not be taken seriously?

Ignoring years is completely reasonable. How many people talk about Rondo's first 3 years when discussing how good he was? Or people with Kobe and his first 4 years? It's a ridiculous angle to take.

You're intentionally ignoring context in some desperate attempt to be correct because your take is way off.

Lol trying to switch and save face. You're a move the goal post kind of guy I see. Just say oops and move along. Your post are no longer taken seriously especially after this flip flop.

If you can't understand the difference between ignoring someone's prime that they are still in and ignoring someone's early years that have literally no impact on how they're playing now that's not my fault. I can't control your comprehension, or lack thereof.

So funny. You talk about comprehension and ignoring things from me. You need to look in the mirror because you just ignored the numbers that feature his all NBA vs his own career vs Sexton, the fact I didn't skip years, then you even flip flopped after trying to shame me. Now it's move the goal post Aaaagain.

So in case of moving the goal post... we need to now ignore Walker's younger years and only take specific years while Sexton was on his rookie year, also we need to remember how bad Walker's team was but not how bad Cavs are or the fact Sexton is playing with this all new worst teammates. Do I have that right?

It's all too funny


All hail Walker the new Celtic! Praise thy in Green

You really think Sexton ends up 4-5 time all star? I really haven't seen a single person suggest that.

I didn't say or suggest such. Don't put words in my mouth.

cavs gave up on sexton when they drafted garland. There's no planet on earth where you can play 2 5'11 guards and expect there to be anything resembling defense

Thats flawed logic. Because based on that I could ask, Did Hornets give up on Kemba when they didn't offer a 5 year max and instead took Rozier? Is Rozier a better player?

Or I could say C's gave up on Brown because they drafted Langford.

Garland was likely BPA. (He was on my board at least)

[slamtheking]

Using Sexton as the possible alternative outcome is flawed since most don't consider him to be a very promising player.

If we're doing fun "what-ifs," the question should be whether you'd rather have Kyrie for the two years or Anthony Davis for half a season in 2018-2019 and a full season in 2019-2020. If Kyrie's contract isn't here, there wouldn't have been the technicality preventing Ainge from trading for Davis before the trade deadline last season. With the guarantee of Davis being here at least 1.5 seasons, it's quite possible he would have been willing to take the risk.

Of course it's an impossible question because not trading for Kyrie would have butterfly effect'd a lot of things. It's fun to ponder though.

first butterfly effect is quite probably Hayward doesn't get injured as well as the C's having a gaping hole at PG with no Kyrie and IT essentially toast.   not sure that reality makes it worth trading a ton of assets for AD or that AD would find that situation more enticing than trying to run to LA

[nickagneta]

In Kemba's next three years, All-Star years, the years Kemba has been the player he currently is:

23.7/5.7/3.8  shooting 43.6/37.8/85.2 with a TS% 56.8%.

We made excuses for Kemba but regardless those are not efficient numbers.

Tried to cut out all the other stuff for simplicity, so if I'm taking your response out of context let me know, but are you calling those numbers inefficient?  Any TS% above the league average I'd consider efficient, regardless of what the individual splits are.

What do you think efficient numbers would be?

For high volume it needs to be much better or he needs to give the ball up.

If people are right and he becomes a better distributor than you can live with his current numbers. He needs to at least be were Irving was with the C's at disturbing (not asking for higher shooting give Walker's career) he can't be what he was with the Hornets or we will be in worse shape than we were with Irving.

Here are Kyrie's numbers and shooting splits the 4 years before coming to the Celtics

22/5.5/3.3 shooting 45.6/38/87.7 with a TS% of 56.2%

Here is Kemba's the three year before he got to Boston:

23.7/5.7/3.8  shooting 43.6/37.8/85.2 with a TS% 56.8%.

Almost identical. If Kyrie could improve his scoring, passing and shooting numbers because of the talent around him and Stevens' offense, if IT could do the same and have one of the best Celtic offensive season's ever with the talent around him and Stevens' offense, I see no reason to not expect Kemba to do the same.

[Csfan1984]

In Kemba's next three years, All-Star years, the years Kemba has been the player he currently is:

23.7/5.7/3.8  shooting 43.6/37.8/85.2 with a TS% 56.8%.

We made excuses for Kemba but regardless those are not efficient numbers.

Tried to cut out all the other stuff for simplicity, so if I'm taking your response out of context let me know, but are you calling those numbers inefficient?  Any TS% above the league average I'd consider efficient, regardless of what the individual splits are.

What do you think efficient numbers would be?

For high volume it needs to be much better or he needs to give the ball up.

If people are right and he becomes a better distributor than you can live with his current numbers. He needs to at least be were Irving was with the C's at disturbing (not asking for higher shooting give Walker's career) he can't be what he was with the Hornets or we will be in worse shape than we were with Irving.

Here are Kyrie's numbers and shooting splits the 4 years before coming to the Celtics

22/5.5/3.3 shooting 45.6/38/87.7 with a TS% of 56.2%

Here is Kemba's the three year before he got to Boston:

23.7/5.7/3.8  shooting 43.6/37.8/85.2 with a TS% 56.8%.

Almost identical. If Kyrie could improve his scoring, passing and shooting numbers because of the talent around him and Stevens' offense, if IT could do the same and have one of the best Celtic offensive season's ever with the talent around him and Stevens' offense, I see no reason to not expect Kemba to do the same.

Irving was pretty solid. Clearly a better shooter and more experience but there was a difference in the past roles coming in, I dont know if that is a plus or negative in this case. There is a history of BS getting good play out of scoring guards here. But in the same vein sometimes these scoring guards tried to do too much and the team offense went south.