Author Topic: Hinrich for Marion  (Read 12073 times)

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Re: Hinrich for Marion
« Reply #15 on: July 09, 2008, 06:08:33 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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Did your mate who heard this rumor work in a deli?

This scenario makes zero sense to me. Marion is in the expiring year of his contract.

They could trade him at deadline for a lot more that Hinrich and a bunch of Bull mediocrity.

Or they could let him expire and be millions under the cap the year Kobe and Iverson hit the market.

If Wade and Kobe become fast friends playing with each other this summer could you envision the Heat with Kobe, Beasley, Wade, Haslam, Padgett, Chalmers and a couple of big vet minimum type players and this year's first rounder?

Shaq wins one with Wade and then Kobe wins one with Wade. Sick, demented thinking but with those two anything is possible.

Riley is out of his mind if he would ever even contemplate such a deal as this.

No, I'm pretty sure the OP's friend works in a deli!

Re: Hinrich for Marion
« Reply #16 on: July 09, 2008, 06:08:55 PM »

Offline Brickowski

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The Heat would do it in a hearbeat.  Marion is a free agent next year, while Hinrich is younger and under contract until 2012. Plus, the Heat need a point guard (Mario Chalmers is a nice backup, but that's about it) and are well stocked at the pf position with cheaper players like Beasley and Udonis Haslem.

No brainer for Miami.  The question is what Chi is willing to throw in to make the salaries match.

It's a no brainer to a PG with a 4 year contract coming off a poor year?

The guy had a career year from a shooting percentage standpoint, cashed in, and reverted back to average play.  $11+MM for a 13 PER PG with a 4 year commitment.

Hinrich is a good player who had a bad year.  Yes, he's worth what he is being paid.

The question is whether or not Miami would be willing to take back Larry Hughes aas part of the deal, to make the Salaries match.  The other alternatives are Nocioni and Gooden.

Re: Hinrich for Marion
« Reply #17 on: July 09, 2008, 06:30:48 PM »

Offline timepiece33

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Hinrich is a good player who had a bad year.  Yes, he's worth what he is being paid.

The question is whether or not Miami would be willing to take back Larry Hughes aas part of the deal, to make the Salaries match.  The other alternatives are Nocioni and Gooden.

Hinrich's splits say he is a little better than last year AND not as good as two years ago.  Average player.  Overpaid.  His value is dictated by his ability to shoot, because the rest of his game is average. 

IMO, unless the Bulls take back Mark Blount in a swap for Drew Gooden AND include young talent to help with the deal financials ... I don't see Miami even remotely considering it.

Re: Hinrich for Marion
« Reply #18 on: July 09, 2008, 06:32:54 PM »

Offline Brickowski

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I think Hinrich's defense and knowledge of the game are way above average.

Re: Hinrich for Marion
« Reply #19 on: July 09, 2008, 06:40:01 PM »

Offline Chief

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I think Hinrich's defense and knowledge of the game are way above average.

I agree. The problem is that it looks like he has spent the last 2 summers working with Scalabrine on his jumper.
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Re: Hinrich for Marion
« Reply #20 on: July 09, 2008, 06:52:43 PM »

Offline Brickowski

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I think Hinrich's defense and knowledge of the game are way above average.

I agree. The problem is that it looks like he has spent the last 2 summers working with Scalabrine on his jumper.

Well the Bulls had no one who can score in the paint, so Hinrich took alot of long jumpers with one second left on the shot clock. If you put him on a team with Michael Beasley and Dwayne Wade, Hinrich's shots taken will go way down and his percentage will go way up.

He's a legitimate starting caliber NBA point guard for under 10 million a year.  That's perfectly acceptable.

Re: Hinrich for Marion
« Reply #21 on: July 10, 2008, 05:29:02 PM »

Offline jaketwice

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I think Hinrich's defense and knowledge of the game are way above average.

I agree. The problem is that it looks like he has spent the last 2 summers working with Scalabrine on his jumper.

Well the Bulls had no one who can score in the paint, so Hinrich took alot of long jumpers with one second left on the shot clock. If you put him on a team with Michael Beasley and Dwayne Wade, Hinrich's shots taken will go way down and his percentage will go way up.

He's a legitimate starting caliber NBA point guard for under 10 million a year.  That's perfectly acceptable.

I agree Hinirch ain't chopped liver. I do not think, however, that the massively overpaid Larry Hughes is fair to include.  He's just not that good relatively.

It would have to be someone at least on the order of Gooden.

IMHO, Chicago really should've taken Beasley.

Re: Hinrich for Marion
« Reply #22 on: July 10, 2008, 08:33:46 PM »

Offline Chris

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I think Noah and Hinrich for Marion makes sense for the Heat, but it doesn't help Chicago that much.  Marion is the best player in the trade, but he plays the same position as their other best player, Deng.  However, if they can turn it into a 3 way deal, that brings a real big man back, it would make more sense.

Re: Hinrich for Marion
« Reply #23 on: July 10, 2008, 08:43:55 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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I will reierate that I think people are forgetting that Marion is a $19 million expiring contract. I think that increases his value tremndously and that you are undervaluing what his market worth could be because of it.

Big FAs hit the market in '09 and '10 and one of those guys is Wade. Miami may require a superstar signed long term in exchange for Marion's contract if they are going trade him. At the very least retaining Marion and using the cap flexibility to possibly entice LeBron or Bosh or someone south to Miami to play alongside Beasley and Wade is very possible.

How's the Heat let Marion expire and use the cash to sign Kobe. Let Kobe and Wade play a year together and if things don't work do a sign and trade the next year with Toronto sending Kobe to the Rators for Bosh.

I know, way outside the realm of reality but Miami looks to be having some nice cap flexibility over the next few years if the play their cards right and if Beasley turns out to be a relatively inexpessive monster of a player, wow, the possibilities are endless.

Re: Hinrich for Marion
« Reply #24 on: July 10, 2008, 08:46:05 PM »

Offline Chris

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I will reierate that I think people are forgetting that Marion is a $19 million expiring contract. I think that increases his value tremndously and that you are undervaluing what his market worth could be because of it.

Big FAs hit the market in '09 and '10 and one of those guys is Wade. Miami may require a superstar signed long term in exchange for Marion's contract if they are going trade him. At the very least retaining Marion and using the cap flexibility to possibly entice LeBron or Bosh or someone south to Miami to play alongside Beasley and Wade is very possible.

How's the Heat let Marion expire and use the cash to sign Kobe. Let Kobe and Wade play a year together and if things don't work do a sign and trade the next year with Toronto sending Kobe to the Rators for Bosh.

I know, way outside the realm of reality but Miami looks to be having some nice cap flexibility over the next few years if the play their cards right and if Beasley turns out to be a relatively inexpessive monster of a player, wow, the possibilities are endless.

Actually, I think Marion's value is lower than it normally would be because he just has the one year remaining.  He is not just a contract, he is one of the top 20 or so players in the league.  A team is not going to trade for him for his contract, they are going to trade for him to make him part of their core.

Re: Hinrich for Marion
« Reply #25 on: July 10, 2008, 08:57:54 PM »

Offline Brickowski

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Re: Hinrich for Marion
« Reply #26 on: July 10, 2008, 09:24:30 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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I will reierate that I think people are forgetting that Marion is a $19 million expiring contract. I think that increases his value tremndously and that you are undervaluing what his market worth could be because of it.

Big FAs hit the market in '09 and '10 and one of those guys is Wade. Miami may require a superstar signed long term in exchange for Marion's contract if they are going trade him. At the very least retaining Marion and using the cap flexibility to possibly entice LeBron or Bosh or someone south to Miami to play alongside Beasley and Wade is very possible.

How's the Heat let Marion expire and use the cash to sign Kobe. Let Kobe and Wade play a year together and if things don't work do a sign and trade the next year with Toronto sending Kobe to the Rators for Bosh.

I know, way outside the realm of reality but Miami looks to be having some nice cap flexibility over the next few years if the play their cards right and if Beasley turns out to be a relatively inexpessive monster of a player, wow, the possibilities are endless.

Actually, I think Marion's value is lower than it normally would be because he just has the one year remaining.  He is not just a contract, he is one of the top 20 or so players in the league.  A team is not going to trade for him for his contract, they are going to trade for him to make him part of their core.
You are missing the point in the other direction. Forget who gets Marion and what they do with him or his contract.

Miami has a top 20 player that has a contract running out. Two years after that they have a top 6 player that has a contract running out. They have one of the more heralded rookies to come into the league in the last 5-6 years or so. And after this year they start getting into a lot of contractual flexibility as they will be way under the cap.

Why on earth does Miami trade away the flexibility to turn Marion's spot on the roster into a couple of good, but not even close to being great, role playing type guys for a top 20 player who's cap money could easily be converted into another possible top 20 or possibly even top 5 guy at the end of the year?

It's great to look at it as Miami needs a point so let's trade Marion because he won't be here next year anyway. But his salary spot means so so so much more to Miami that taking in only Noah and Hinrich severely short sells what that $19 million slot could become.

Re: Hinrich for Marion
« Reply #27 on: July 10, 2008, 09:40:24 PM »

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Hinrich's contract is actually front loaded so it goes down from $10M to $8M over 4 years.  Compare this to the Beno Urdrih deal and Henrich's doesn't look all that bad.  Both are over paid but Hinrich's will look much better in a couple of years.

I don't think this is what Chi would be looking for though in return for Henrich and Noah.  I am not sure who is going to want Marion even though he is an excellent player.

Re: Hinrich for Marion
« Reply #28 on: July 13, 2008, 09:59:00 PM »

Offline timepiece33

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I fail to see why Miami would take the chance on Hinrich's contract AND provide value to the Bulls.

Hinrich is worth a package centered around Haslem as opposed to Marion.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2008, 10:38:44 PM by timepiece33 »

Re: Hinrich for Marion
« Reply #29 on: July 13, 2008, 10:18:32 PM »

Offline cdif911

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If I'm Marion, thats gotta be a bruise to my ego, to be in trade talks for Kirk Hinrich... I think Marion has all the tools in the world, but the impression I've go of him is he'll never be a winner. content to get paid, hang out, play a little ball, do this or that... but not a guy who really really wants it
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