Author Topic: Jeff, front page topic suggestion. Who's team is it now? (Pierce or Rondo)  (Read 5411 times)

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Offline chambers

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In another topic http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=54938.msg1176223;topicseen#new
we are debating who is the face of the franchise now. If Pierce still holds the reigns or has Rondo taken over?
Could you do a front page piece on the topic with a poll?

Most hardcore Celtics fans like us would say Pierce, but it seems to me that Rondo (jersey sales, all star votes), is now the 'face' of the franchise when it comes to NBA fans thinking about the Boston Celtics.
Would be interesting to see what people say.(people who regularly visit the site would still see Pierce given his long tenure with the team- does the rest of the world see it that way?)
Thanks...
"We are lucky we have a very patient GM that isn't willing to settle for being good and coming close. He wants to win a championship and we have the potential to get there still with our roster and assets."

quoting 'Greg B' on RealGM after 2017 trade deadline.
Read that last line again. One more time.

Offline StartOrien

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It depends on how you interpret that, and unfortunately my work firewall blocks the main site:

Basketball wise, for this year at least, it's Paul Pierce. He's the heart and soul of this team, and I think in their absences Pierce has shown himself much more valuable to this team than Rondo has.

Offline jdz101

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Its still Paul...if you think its Rondo you're kidding yourself.


how much wood would a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck was chris bosh?

Offline Jeff

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sounds like a good FanPost you could write yourself :)
Faith and Sports - an essay by Jeff Clark

"Know what I pray for? The strength to change what I can, the inability to accept what I can't, and the incapacity to tell the difference." - Calvin (Bill Watterson)

Offline 2short

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its doc's team

you can argue til the cows come in for who's team is it or mvp

rondo, pierce or kg

The celtics are a TEAM, rondo might score 4 its but gets 14 assists and spreads them around
paul might have an off night shooting but plays good defense and gets 10 bds
kg can score 10 pts but dominate defensively

whatever the team needs from any of its players

Offline chambers

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Its still Paul...if you think its Rondo you're kidding yourself.
That's funny because Kevin Garnett recently stated that it is Rondo's team now.
So I suppose he's kidding himself?
"We are lucky we have a very patient GM that isn't willing to settle for being good and coming close. He wants to win a championship and we have the potential to get there still with our roster and assets."

quoting 'Greg B' on RealGM after 2017 trade deadline.
Read that last line again. One more time.

Offline ImShakHeIsShaq

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Its still Paul...if you think its Rondo you're kidding yourself.
That's funny because Kevin Garnett recently stated that it is Rondo's team now.
So I suppose he's kidding himself?

Ainge isn't kidding himself though, if Rondo has the reigns he was going to be shipped of to no mans land with those reigns and KG and the rest would be saying it's CP3's team...

I have never heard of a player who is the "head" of a team that was close to being shipped out w/o asking to be sent to another team...

You think Clev wanted to ship their head... how about Orl, maybe Hornets, maybe Tor... no, these guys were only moved b/c they chose (will choose) to move on! To me, if it's "your team" then you aren't trade-able, unless you are an old player or you ask to be moved! If it's RR team that means he should have the "franchise tag"... seeing how they were ready to ship him out (YOUNG and on a hecka cheap contract/locked in), I doubt it's really his team, no matter if the other guys try to force that position on him (KG said they have to tell him constantly it's his team)! Even he doesn't believe it lol...
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Offline jdz101

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Its still Paul...if you think its Rondo you're kidding yourself.
That's funny because Kevin Garnett recently stated that it is Rondo's team now.
So I suppose he's kidding himself?

Alright Ill bite.

[DISCLAIMER: This isnt Rondo hate. I like Rondo]

Kevin Garnett is always going to love the guy that feeds him jumpshots. Thats where the quote comes from. Dont take it as gospel. (This is why KG hates the 5 position, he wants to play the 4 and roll off picks and shoot jump shots all game.)

Rondo runs the offense for most of the time he's on sure.

Pierce still finishes games and makes baskets in the clutch, which Rondo is unable to do.  Rondo is actually fairly ineffective at the end of games due to his poor free throw shooting and reluctance to actually score instead of pass off.

Pierce is ALSO a great passer, averaging 5 assists this year, and making several clutch passes to Ray for HUGE shots over the journey.

When the opposition is on a run, Paul takes the ball to their defense and gets to the line to stem the tide. Rondo does not and cannot due to his ineffectiveness at the free throw stripe.

Pierce is the vocal leader to rev up the team before and during games. Rondo stays quiet on the bench and sits there looking like ET wrapped in towels.

Pierce still carries the team's scoring load, being the only real guy that can create his own baskets. Its great to get assists but its even better to get the ball in the hoop, and until Rondo does this to even 3/4 of the level that Pierce can, he will always be second.

Pierce has learnt to accept responsibility for his own wrongdoing in games and taken full responsibility in post game interviews when the team has lost. Rondo constantly hints about things "the team" hasn't done well instead of his own mistakes, and also chucks hissy fits in film sessions, destroying TV's when his shortcomings are highlighted. Not signs of a true leader.

Rondo goes on camera proclaiming himself as "the best point guard in the league", yet has not developed a 3 point shot to make him a proper offensive threat at that position like nash and kidd have before him. Pierce says nothing of the sort, but yet can pass, shoot and drive to the rim, therefore is the more complete offensive triple-threat player.






how much wood would a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck was chris bosh?

Offline European NBA fan

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Its still Paul...if you think its Rondo you're kidding yourself.
That's funny because Kevin Garnett recently stated that it is Rondo's team now.
So I suppose he's kidding himself?

Alright Ill bite.

[DISCLAIMER: This isnt Rondo hate. I like Rondo]

Kevin Garnett is always going to love the guy that feeds him jumpshots. Thats where the quote comes from. Dont take it as gospel. (This is why KG hates the 5 position, he wants to play the 4 and roll off picks and shoot jump shots all game.)

Rondo runs the offense for most of the time he's on sure.

Pierce still finishes games and makes baskets in the clutch, which Rondo is unable to do.  Rondo is actually fairly ineffective at the end of games due to his poor free throw shooting and reluctance to actually score instead of pass off.

Pierce is ALSO a great passer, averaging 5 assists this year, and making several clutch passes to Ray for HUGE shots over the journey.

When the opposition is on a run, Paul takes the ball to their defense and gets to the line to stem the tide. Rondo does not and cannot due to his ineffectiveness at the free throw stripe.

Pierce is the vocal leader to rev up the team before and during games. Rondo stays quiet on the bench and sits there looking like ET wrapped in towels.

Pierce still carries the team's scoring load, being the only real guy that can create his own baskets. Its great to get assists but its even better to get the ball in the hoop, and until Rondo does this to even 3/4 of the level that Pierce can, he will always be second.

Pierce has learnt to accept responsibility for his own wrongdoing in games and taken full responsibility in post game interviews when the team has lost. Rondo constantly hints about things "the team" hasn't done well instead of his own mistakes, and also chucks hissy fits in film sessions, destroying TV's when his shortcomings are highlighted. Not signs of a true leader.

Rondo goes on camera proclaiming himself as "the best point guard in the league", yet has not developed a 3 point shot to make him a proper offensive threat at that position like nash and kidd have before him. Pierce says nothing of the sort, but yet can pass, shoot and drive to the rim, therefore is the more complete offensive triple-threat player.






Several things here:

First of all, KG's comment had nothing to do with him getting fed jumpers by Rondo, it was about how Rondo handled the trade rumours (which he did really great) and reassuring our best player, that he is needed.


Pierce is indeed a great passer but he falls short against elite one-on-one defense, where teams don't double team him. His offense simply stagnates (no passing, no free throws etc.), and I really hope Doc has some solutions for that. Rondo is much better at handling elite defenders, simply because noone can hold him. A semi valid strategy is to sag off him and make him hit jumpers. But when teams have done that this season, he has several times risen to the occasion and hit at a good percentage.

We might have different opinions about what a vocal leader is. What you point out is to me a difference in personalities, but Rondo is absolutely the vocal leader on this team when on the floor. He is the floor general, and that is probably why some people says that it is Rondo's team. 

You point to one unconfirmed incident and generalize about Rondo's maturity. While I also believe the report, that he once accidently crashed a TV, when he threw something at it, I think that Rondo learned from that incident. He is still young enough to learn from his mistakes. And you haven't seen many interviews with him, if you say that he doesn't take responsibility for his own mistakes. Some of his cocky attitude probably comes from playing with future HOFs. If he didn't assert himself among them, he would be irrelevant.

After his 2008 finals MVP award, Pierce according to a Spanish news site called himself the best player in the World.

Quote
Q: Is Kobe really the best player in the world? Pierce: I don't think Kobe is the best player. I'm the best player. There's a line that separates having confidence and being conceited. I don't cross that line but I have a lot of confidence in myself.

That's probably not what he actually said (I don't really trust news from Spain). But my point is: Pierce was and is also a cocky player.

As for Rondo's proclaiming himself the best point guard: No he's not, and he probably knows better now, than when he said it. But I also think that this is the standard he sets for himself, and that some of his problems comes from those high expectations.

Imo this team isn't really about being Rondo's or Pierce's or  KG's or even Doc's. This team looks beyond that.

Offline BballTim

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Its still Paul...if you think its Rondo you're kidding yourself.
That's funny because Kevin Garnett recently stated that it is Rondo's team now.
So I suppose he's kidding himself?

Ainge isn't kidding himself though, if Rondo has the reigns he was going to be shipped of to no mans land with those reigns and KG and the rest would be saying it's CP3's team...

I have never heard of a player who is the "head" of a team that was close to being shipped out w/o asking to be sent to another team...


  Kidd, Marbury, Gasol, Manning, Ray Allen, probably Kevin Martin, I don't think it's unheard of.

Offline chambers

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Its still Paul...if you think its Rondo you're kidding yourself.
That's funny because Kevin Garnett recently stated that it is Rondo's team now.
So I suppose he's kidding himself?

Ainge isn't kidding himself though, if Rondo has the reigns he was going to be shipped of to no mans land with those reigns and KG and the rest would be saying it's CP3's team...

I have never heard of a player who is the "head" of a team that was close to being shipped out w/o asking to be sent to another team...

You think Clev wanted to ship their head... how about Orl, maybe Hornets, maybe Tor... no, these guys were only moved b/c they chose (will choose) to move on! To me, if it's "your team" then you aren't trade-able, unless you are an old player or you ask to be moved! If it's RR team that means he should have the "franchise tag"... seeing how they were ready to ship him out (YOUNG and on a hecka cheap contract/locked in), I doubt it's really his team, no matter if the other guys try to force that position on him (KG said they have to tell him constantly it's his team)! Even he doesn't believe it lol...

So using your logic, when Danny Ainge recently tried to give Pierce to the Blazers for Batum before they announced they were 'blowing it up', then Pierce is not a franchise player or the 'head'?

Using the same twisted logic, do you think that New Orleans would ever trade CP3 for Pierce ? You think that if the Hornets said, 'Give us Paul Pierce and we'll give you CP3' that Danny Ainge wouldn't drop it in a heartbeat?

This is such one sided bias and you can't see your own hypocrisy in your statement?
Obviously if CP3 came to Boston he would take the reigns, he's supposedly a top 5 player in the NBA.
"We are lucky we have a very patient GM that isn't willing to settle for being good and coming close. He wants to win a championship and we have the potential to get there still with our roster and assets."

quoting 'Greg B' on RealGM after 2017 trade deadline.
Read that last line again. One more time.

Offline LeoMoreno

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It has caught my attention, when I talk to other people, regardless if on forums or in real conversations, when I mention the Celtics, non-Boston fans all have the same reaction: So tough, Rondo is so amazing, Garnett is so tough he makes everyone else 100 times tougher than they truly are (exaggeration for the point), Allen is incredible and there's no stopping Pierce when he gets it rolling.

Doesn't always go in that order but everyone thinks like that. It seems that the face of the franchise isn't a player, it's The Big Four trademark.

Offline GreenFaith1819

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I thought it was Ubuntu's Team.....

Offline Bankshot

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Pierce.  When Pierce retires, it becomes Rondo's team if he's still here.  I don't think you can just say it's someone else's team when the Captain is still on the team.  Seems like a slap in the face to Pierce.

When it was clear that Pierce was the better player than Walker, Pierce didn't take over as captain, he shared it with Walker.
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