If we are going to lose Ray... might as well trade him for Eddie Curry

[wdleehi]

I think the better idea is to trade Ray to a team with cap room. 


Take a smaller salary player, a draft pick and one big trade exception. 



That big trade exception is worth more then any player on the last year of his contract.



Example, NJ trades Lee, next years 1st for Ray. 

Later in the year, the Celtics trade the TE created for another good young player and draft pick to a team looking to get under the tax threshold. 

[LarBrd33]

Chris,

Assuming we're a contending team that's over the cap, if we're going to lose Ray, maintaining the abiltiy to use that money is in essence an asset. As a last resort I agree with the OP, you make this deal instead of letting Ray walk. It's a no brainer in my opinion.

Fine, it's an asset.  But not a good enough asset to make that a good deal. 

And no offense, but on something like this, the only opinion that matters is the one who is going to be paying $11 million to Eddie Curry, just for the off chance they can trade him. 

And based on the precedents set all over the NBA for taking on someones bad contract, I would immediately call for Danny's head if he made that deal and did not get anything else out of the Knicks.

You guys are silly. 

Anyone who is responding with "NO way!  Curry stinks" totally doesn't get it. 

Anyone who is responding with "Why wouldn't we just let Ray walk" ... totally doesn't get it.

We have no cap room to make use of flexibility.  You take on Curry because he becomes "Theo Ratliff's expiring contract" at the deadline.    It's not like Theo Ratliff was playing for us. We used his expiring contract to make a deal.  At the deadline, combining Eddy Curry's expiring contract with the bum we selected #19 could net you a guy like Monta Ellis.

You take on Eddie Curry's contract for flexibility.  It's a 1 year deal and has plenty of value at the deadline.  IT HAS PLENTY OF VALUE RIGHT NOW.  The knicks could move that contract for any number of players.  Try to convince me that the Hornets wouldn't jump at a chance to get out from under the next 5 years of Emeka Okafor's contract, for example.   There is no way you'd just get stuck paying CUrry for a year... in February, we'd find a trade partner.   

The alternative is letting Ray walk and getting nothing in return.   Nothing.   Zero.  You start Tony Allen instead.

I mean... I sort of get what you guys are saying... let Ray Walk... let Pierce walk unless he wants to sign a 2 year contract... and get a bunch of cap room in 2012.   To do what?   I'd be on board if I thought Kevin Durant would be a free agent in 2012... but he's not going to be.   There is no "Class of 2010" coming in 2012...

[JSD]

I think the better idea is to trade Ray to a team with cap room. 


Take a smaller salary player, a draft pick and one big trade exception. 



That big trade exception is worth more then any player on the last year of his contract.



Example, NJ trades Lee, next years 1st for Ray. 

Later in the year, the Celtics trade the TE created for another good young player and draft pick to a team looking to get under the tax threshold. 

That's not going to happen. Why would a team with cap space do that? NJ could sign Ray without giving up anything...

[Jon]

I'm not sure how I feel about this.  The rational side of my brain says "why on earth would the Knicks want Ray Allen (especially when we consider that they aren't getting Wade or LeBron, and thus won't be instant contenders with whatever B-listers they do get)?  However, then I remember that it is the Knicks we're dealing with.  So anything is possible. 

[LarBrd33]

I'm not sure how I feel about this.  The rational side of my brain says "why on earth would the Knicks want Ray Allen (especially when we consider that they aren't getting Wade or LeBron, and thus won't be instant contenders with whatever B-listers they do get)?  However, then I remember that it is the Knicks we're dealing with.  So anything is possible. 

Well from the KNicks perspective it's a no-brainer.  They still have contract space to land two max contracts... they just swap out Eddy Curry for Ray Allen.   My concept is that from the Knicks perspective... it could help their chances of landing LeBron.  No longer is is "Why would bron go to NY to play with Gallinari and one other max player... " it becomes "why would Bron go to NY to play with Gallinari, Ray ALlen and another max player?"

[the_Bird]

"Don't get it..."  Meh.

Given a choice, you don't think ownership's going to be REALLY temped to just let Ray Allen walk, if it means that they get out from under the luxury tax (and start becoming a recipient of those dollars?)

Sure, it's nice to have an expiring contract...   but as it stands today, we're lacking in anything to pair it with.  There really aren't THAT many cases where good players get dumped for nothing; Kirk Hinrich recently, but the Wiz didn't send back an expiring contract, they were able to just absorb his deal.

Unless our young guys prove to be pretty good ballers, just having an expiring contract in February isn't likely to do us any more good than having Ray's expiring contract did us last February.

Besides...  if ownership doesn't believe we're truly a title contender, they aren't going to pay the lux tax if they've got any way out of it.  Can't blame them.  If we're losing Ray Allen, I can't see that we're legit contenders.  

If there's value coming back to the C's in addition to Curry's contract, that's when you consider a deal - but the Knicks are pretty depleted at this point.  They'd have to give us Gallinari, at a minimum, for ownership to sign off on continuing to pay the tax.

[wdleehi]

I think the better idea is to trade Ray to a team with cap room. 


Take a smaller salary player, a draft pick and one big trade exception. 



That big trade exception is worth more then any player on the last year of his contract.



Example, NJ trades Lee, next years 1st for Ray. 

Later in the year, the Celtics trade the TE created for another good young player and draft pick to a team looking to get under the tax threshold. 

That's not going to happen. Why would a team with cap space do that? NJ could sign Ray without giving up anything...

Because by doing that (and sending some salary) they keep open bigger FA holes.  They would add a guy like Ray to entice other FA to come.

[Jon]

I'm not sure how I feel about this.  The rational side of my brain says "why on earth would the Knicks want Ray Allen (especially when we consider that they aren't getting Wade or LeBron, and thus won't be instant contenders with whatever B-listers they do get)?  However, then I remember that it is the Knicks we're dealing with.  So anything is possible. 

Well from the KNicks perspective it's a no-brainer.  They still have contract space to land two max contracts... they just swap out Eddy Curry for Ray Allen.   My concept is that from the Knicks perspective... it could help their chances of landing LeBron.  No longer is is "Why would bron go to NY to play with Gallinari and one other max player... " it becomes "why would Bron go to NY to play with Gallinari, Ray ALlen and another max player?"

Problem is, good idea or not, I don't think this is happening tonight and I think we'll find out pretty quickly where LeBron's going, and I don't think it's NY.  And if that's not going to happen, Gallinary, Ray, and two max guys who shouldn't be max guys (which is what likely will happen) will be a playoff team, but not a contender.  So unless this is the Knicks being stupid (which is quite possible), I don't see it happening. 

[JSD]

I think the better idea is to trade Ray to a team with cap room. 


Take a smaller salary player, a draft pick and one big trade exception. 



That big trade exception is worth more then any player on the last year of his contract.



Example, NJ trades Lee, next years 1st for Ray. 

Later in the year, the Celtics trade the TE created for another good young player and draft pick to a team looking to get under the tax threshold. 

That's not going to happen. Why would a team with cap space do that? NJ could sign Ray without giving up anything...

Because by doing that (and sending some salary) they keep open bigger FA holes.  They would add a guy like Ray to entice other FA to come.

Bringing in Ray under the scenario you described would eliminate the possibility of landing 2 max. Unless they traded everyone but Harris and Lopez (or just Harris).

I see what you're saying but I don't think it's a slam dunk like the Curry trade.

[JSD]

Given a choice, you don't think ownership's going to be REALLY temped to just let Ray Allen walk, if it means that they get out from under the luxury tax (and start becoming a recipient of those dollars?)

They'd be tempted but they wouldn't. With KG, Pierce and Rondo maintaining ability to add another player would be enticing. Especially if the Knicks sent cash along with Curry, (which is a given.)

Sure, it's nice to have an expiring contract...   but as it stands today, we're lacking in anything to pair it with.  There really aren't THAT many cases where good players get dumped for nothing; Kirk Hinrich recently, but the Wiz didn't send back an expiring contract, they were able to just absorb his deal.

It happen's every year at every deadline. Good players traded for relief.

If there's value coming back to the C's in addition to Curry's contract, that's when you consider a deal - but the Knicks are pretty depleted at this point.  They'd have to give us Gallinari, at a minimum, for ownership to sign off on continuing to pay the tax.

You just greatly under-value expiring contracts.

[jarufu]

Chris,

Assuming we're a contending team that's over the cap, if we're going to lose Ray, maintaining the abiltiy to use that money is in essence an asset. As a last resort I agree with the OP, you make this deal instead of letting Ray walk. It's a no brainer in my opinion.

Fine, it's an asset.  But not a good enough asset to make that a good deal. 

And no offense, but on something like this, the only opinion that matters is the one who is going to be paying $11 million to Eddie Curry, just for the off chance they can trade him. 

And based on the precedents set all over the NBA for taking on someones bad contract, I would immediately call for Danny's head if he made that deal and did not get anything else out of the Knicks.

You guys are silly. 

Anyone who is responding with "NO way!  Curry stinks" totally doesn't get it. 

Anyone who is responding with "Why wouldn't we just let Ray walk" ... totally doesn't get it.

We have no cap room to make use of flexibility.  You take on Curry because he becomes "Theo Ratliff's expiring contract" at the deadline.    It's not like Theo Ratliff was playing for us. We used his expiring contract to make a deal.  At the deadline, combining Eddy Curry's expiring contract with the bum we selected #19 could net you a guy like Monta Ellis.

You take on Eddie Curry's contract for flexibility.  It's a 1 year deal and has plenty of value at the deadline.  IT HAS PLENTY OF VALUE RIGHT NOW.  The knicks could move that contract for any number of players.  Try to convince me that the Hornets wouldn't jump at a chance to get out from under the next 5 years of Emeka Okafor's contract, for example.   There is no way you'd just get stuck paying CUrry for a year... in February, we'd find a trade partner.   

The alternative is letting Ray walk and getting nothing in return.   Nothing.   Zero.  You start Tony Allen instead.

I mean... I sort of get what you guys are saying... let Ray Walk... let Pierce walk unless he wants to sign a 2 year contract... and get a bunch of cap room in 2012.   To do what?   I'd be on board if I thought Kevin Durant would be a free agent in 2012... but he's not going to be.   There is no "Class of 2010" coming in 2012...

Oh I understand the logic alright - still chicken every time over eddie ... 

If he's walking and we get nuthin back it'd suck, but I'm sure Wyc/Danny would have to consider it.

[Andy Jick]

After giving this some thought, there is an upside to a deal involving Curry...

All those Thomas Hamilton jerseys that are laying around in the equipment room could now be put to use...just change the name and I think that's about right.

[LarBrd33]

I'm not sure how I feel about this.  The rational side of my brain says "why on earth would the Knicks want Ray Allen (especially when we consider that they aren't getting Wade or LeBron, and thus won't be instant contenders with whatever B-listers they do get)?  However, then I remember that it is the Knicks we're dealing with.  So anything is possible. 

Well from the KNicks perspective it's a no-brainer.  They still have contract space to land two max contracts... they just swap out Eddy Curry for Ray Allen.   My concept is that from the Knicks perspective... it could help their chances of landing LeBron.  No longer is is "Why would bron go to NY to play with Gallinari and one other max player... " it becomes "why would Bron go to NY to play with Gallinari, Ray ALlen and another max player?"

Problem is, good idea or not, I don't think this is happening tonight and I think we'll find out pretty quickly where LeBron's going, and I don't think it's NY.  And if that's not going to happen, Gallinary, Ray, and two max guys who shouldn't be max guys (which is what likely will happen) will be a playoff team, but not a contender.  So unless this is the Knicks being stupid (which is quite possible), I don't see it happening. 

I think you oughta strap in for a couple more weeks of this.  I dont' see anything getting signed immediately.

[Jon]

I'm not sure how I feel about this.  The rational side of my brain says "why on earth would the Knicks want Ray Allen (especially when we consider that they aren't getting Wade or LeBron, and thus won't be instant contenders with whatever B-listers they do get)?  However, then I remember that it is the Knicks we're dealing with.  So anything is possible. 

Well from the KNicks perspective it's a no-brainer.  They still have contract space to land two max contracts... they just swap out Eddy Curry for Ray Allen.   My concept is that from the Knicks perspective... it could help their chances of landing LeBron.  No longer is is "Why would bron go to NY to play with Gallinari and one other max player... " it becomes "why would Bron go to NY to play with Gallinari, Ray ALlen and another max player?"

Problem is, good idea or not, I don't think this is happening tonight and I think we'll find out pretty quickly where LeBron's going, and I don't think it's NY.  And if that's not going to happen, Gallinary, Ray, and two max guys who shouldn't be max guys (which is what likely will happen) will be a playoff team, but not a contender.  So unless this is the Knicks being stupid (which is quite possible), I don't see it happening. 

I think you oughta strap in for a couple more weeks of this.  I dont' see anything getting signed immediately.

Possibly, though since all teams can offer the same amount, there isn't a lot to sit around and wait on.  It's not there's going to be a bidding war. 

And even if it does take weeks, I don't expect LeBron or Wade to go to the Knicks. 

[LarBrd33]

I'm not sure how I feel about this.  The rational side of my brain says "why on earth would the Knicks want Ray Allen (especially when we consider that they aren't getting Wade or LeBron, and thus won't be instant contenders with whatever B-listers they do get)?  However, then I remember that it is the Knicks we're dealing with.  So anything is possible. 

Well from the KNicks perspective it's a no-brainer.  They still have contract space to land two max contracts... they just swap out Eddy Curry for Ray Allen.   My concept is that from the Knicks perspective... it could help their chances of landing LeBron.  No longer is is "Why would bron go to NY to play with Gallinari and one other max player... " it becomes "why would Bron go to NY to play with Gallinari, Ray ALlen and another max player?"

Problem is, good idea or not, I don't think this is happening tonight and I think we'll find out pretty quickly where LeBron's going, and I don't think it's NY.  And if that's not going to happen, Gallinary, Ray, and two max guys who shouldn't be max guys (which is what likely will happen) will be a playoff team, but not a contender.  So unless this is the Knicks being stupid (which is quite possible), I don't see it happening. 

I think you oughta strap in for a couple more weeks of this.  I dont' see anything getting signed immediately.

Possibly, though since all teams can offer the same amount, there isn't a lot to sit around and wait on.  It's not there's going to be a bidding war. 

And even if it does take weeks, I don't expect LeBron or Wade to go to the Knicks. 

Nobody is going to commit anywhere until they know exactly where everyone else is going.   The teams don't officially get a chance to talk to LeBron until tomorrow... so maybe right now he's leaning towards going to Miami or Chicago... but what if during his meeting the Nets say they have a crazy deal in place to bring in Chris Paul and Okafor (a package around Devin Harris, Derrick Favors and multiple picks) and they will pull the trigger if Bron will sign...  what if he tells the Clippers he'll sign with them if they sell majority ownership to David Geffen? What if the Knicks say they'll trade Curry for Ray Allen if it means he'll come on board...  what if the Celtics call LeBron and say, "Just throwing this out there... what if we let Pierce and Ray walk.. any interest in signing with us?... think the Raptors will take back KG in a sign-and-trade for Bosh?"... this entire process could take some time.