Wish Horford was here to see this

[Fierce1]

And the Sixers gave Horford 109m for 4 years?

Crazy!

Yea I will admit I wanted him back on a three year deal at solid money, unless he is injured right now, I am worried that kind of deal would have been a disaster (let alone what Philly gave him). Could end up being worst deal of offseason

One of the main reasons I wanted him (and Irving) back was because I wanted to retain our stars while remaining over the cap. When Danny pulled the Kemba signing out of his hat, that alleviated a lot of the worry. I assumed Hayward would take on more responsibility as the front court distributor, but I don't know that any of us imagined Theis would be such a revelation (versatile plus defender, low usage but can score in variety of ways). Kanter has also been everything he was advertised to be and Time Lord is proving to be a useful player with loads of potential.

Many assumed we would get Horford on a 3-4 yr deal worth $15-20M (max). That wasn't the case and now it's up to Philly/Horford to find the best role for him. I will admit that sometimes it takes time to integrate a new player, but I am happy with the route Danny chose.

Danny didn't have a choice.

Both Kyrie and Horford wanted out.

Horford didn't even wait until July 1 to decide.

Here's the article below.

Celtics upset, claim 76ers tampered with Al Horford
https://94wip.radio.com/celtics-tampering-al-horford-sixers

Irving wanted out. From everything I've read, Horford might have been willing to stay, especially with Walker coming on, but the Sixers made him an offer he couldn't refuse.

True.

It was an offer Horford couldn't refuse.

That's why I'm saying Ainge didn't choose the path the Celts are in right now.

I'm sure Ainge would've re-signed Horford if it were up to Ainge.

Ainge just got lucky that the only path available ended up better than expected.

[nickagneta]

And the Sixers gave Horford 109m for 4 years?

Crazy!

Yea I will admit I wanted him back on a three year deal at solid money, unless he is injured right now, I am worried that kind of deal would have been a disaster (let alone what Philly gave him). Could end up being worst deal of offseason

One of the main reasons I wanted him (and Irving) back was because I wanted to retain our stars while remaining over the cap. When Danny pulled the Kemba signing out of his hat, that alleviated a lot of the worry. I assumed Hayward would take on more responsibility as the front court distributor, but I don't know that any of us imagined Theis would be such a revelation (versatile plus defender, low usage but can score in variety of ways). Kanter has also been everything he was advertised to be and Time Lord is proving to be a useful player with loads of potential.

Many assumed we would get Horford on a 3-4 yr deal worth $15-20M (max). That wasn't the case and now it's up to Philly/Horford to find the best role for him. I will admit that sometimes it takes time to integrate a new player, but I am happy with the route Danny chose.

Danny didn't have a choice.

Both Kyrie and Horford wanted out.

Horford didn't even wait until July 1 to decide.

Here's the article below.

Celtics upset, claim 76ers tampered with Al Horford
https://94wip.radio.com/celtics-tampering-al-horford-sixers

Danny had a choice. He had tons of choices.

Horford and Boston were in talks before Horford broke them off because he decided to go with the Sixers. Ainge could have given Horford whatever he wanted for money when he opened talks with him after the season. He chose not to which led to Horford committing to taking the giant offer from Philly. So far...good choice.

Ainge could have decided to resign Rozier and Morris, basically bringing back the 2018 playoff squad, rather than go after a major free agent but chose not to. So far...good choice.

Ainge could have decided to start completely over after he saw Kyrie and Horford were gone. Ainge could have blown things up right down to Smart, Brown and Tatum. He chose not to blow it up. So far...good choice.

Ainge could have decided to go after another free agent rather than Kemba. He decided on Kemba. So far...good choice.

You always have options and choices. It's just up to you to make the right choices. Ainge chose well

[Fierce1]

And the Sixers gave Horford 109m for 4 years?

Crazy!

Yea I will admit I wanted him back on a three year deal at solid money, unless he is injured right now, I am worried that kind of deal would have been a disaster (let alone what Philly gave him). Could end up being worst deal of offseason

One of the main reasons I wanted him (and Irving) back was because I wanted to retain our stars while remaining over the cap. When Danny pulled the Kemba signing out of his hat, that alleviated a lot of the worry. I assumed Hayward would take on more responsibility as the front court distributor, but I don't know that any of us imagined Theis would be such a revelation (versatile plus defender, low usage but can score in variety of ways). Kanter has also been everything he was advertised to be and Time Lord is proving to be a useful player with loads of potential.

Many assumed we would get Horford on a 3-4 yr deal worth $15-20M (max). That wasn't the case and now it's up to Philly/Horford to find the best role for him. I will admit that sometimes it takes time to integrate a new player, but I am happy with the route Danny chose.

Danny didn't have a choice.

Both Kyrie and Horford wanted out.

Horford didn't even wait until July 1 to decide.

Here's the article below.

Celtics upset, claim 76ers tampered with Al Horford
https://94wip.radio.com/celtics-tampering-al-horford-sixers

Danny had a choice. He had tons of choices.

Horford and Boston were in talks before Horford broke them off because he decided to go with the Sixers. Ainge could have given Horford whatever he wanted for money when he opened talks with him after the season. He chose not to which led to Horford committing to taking the giant offer from Philly. So far...good choice.

Ainge could have decided to resign Rozier and Morris, basically bringing back the 2018 playoff squad, rather than go after a major free agent but chose not to. So far...good choice.

Ainge could have decided to start completely over after he saw Kyrie and Horford were gone. Ainge could have blown things up right down to Smart, Brown and Tatum. He chose not to blow it up. So far...good choice.

Ainge could have decided to go after another free agent rather than Kemba. He decided on Kemba. So far...good choice.

You always have options and choices. It's just up to you to make the right choices. Ainge chose well

Really?

Every Celtic fan already knew Rozier was going to ask for big money and a starting job.

Why did the Celts cry tampering if they were the first ones to talk to Horford?

Celts never had a shot because the Sixers were there first.

The only real choice Ainge had was signing Kemba.

But when it comes to Horford, Ainge didn't have choice because the Sixers came to Horford first.

[Fierce1]

Here's what the article said, nick.

“The Celtics were, from what I am told, one of the teams that kind of stomped their feet with what they thought was tampering,” Windhorst said. “What happened with Horford—from what I am told—really upset the Celtics. They were thinking they were going to be able to negotiate with him, talk to him about a new contract and all of a sudden it was like, he already knew what his market was and what was out there.”

[Fierce1]

They were thinking they were going to be able to negotiate with him,

The key phrase there was "going to".

That means the Celts were "going to" talk to Horford.

So saying that Horford and Boston were in talks is not accurate.

[nickagneta]

You don't live in the Boston market, do you Fierce? Horford's negotiations with the Celtics were all over the local media and sports radio here for most of late May and early June.

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/celtics-free-agency-rumors-al-horford-expected-to-sign-elsewhere-after-talks-break-down-with-boston-report-says/

According to a report from Steve Bulpett of the Boston Herald, talks between Horford and the Celtics have broken down, and the veteran will look to sign elsewhere this summer. 

Steve Bulpett
@SteveBHoop
Major change in the Al Horford situation:
Per source close to Horford, his side is no longer discussing a new 3-year deal to stay with the Celtics. He is expected to sign a 4-year free agent contract elsewhere...
Story to come.
7:24 PM · Jun 18, 2019·Twitter Web Client

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2841431-celtics-rumors-al-horford-discussing-new-3-year-contract-if-he-declines-option

Al Horford could remain with the Boston Celtics even if he declines his $30.1 million player option for 2019-20.

According to Steve Bulpett of the Boston Herald, "the sides have been discussing a plan where he comes in at a lower number next season and gets two more years tacked on in a new deal."

https://www.masslive.com/celtics/2019/06/al-horford-rumors-100-million-contract-may-be-waiting-elsewhere-for-horford-report.html

Marc Stein
✔
@TheSteinLine
 The belief making the front-office rounds tonight is that Al Horford already knows there’s a four-year contract worth in excess of $100 million waiting out there for him June 30 .. knowledge that led to Horford’s talks with the Celtics dissolving

Steve Bulpett, Adam Himmelsbach and Jackie Mac were all discussing on sports radio about the negotiations at the time. Fact is the Celtics did negotiate with Horford but refused to give him what he wanted so Horford broke off talks and went elsewhere.

 

[Fierce1]

You don't live in the Boston market, do you Fierce? Horford's negotiations with the Celtics were all over the local media and sports radio here for most of late May and early June.

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/celtics-free-agency-rumors-al-horford-expected-to-sign-elsewhere-after-talks-break-down-with-boston-report-says/

According to a report from Steve Bulpett of the Boston Herald, talks between Horford and the Celtics have broken down, and the veteran will look to sign elsewhere this summer. 

Steve Bulpett
@SteveBHoop
Major change in the Al Horford situation:
Per source close to Horford, his side is no longer discussing a new 3-year deal to stay with the Celtics. He is expected to sign a 4-year free agent contract elsewhere...
Story to come.
7:24 PM · Jun 18, 2019·Twitter Web Client

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2841431-celtics-rumors-al-horford-discussing-new-3-year-contract-if-he-declines-option

Al Horford could remain with the Boston Celtics even if he declines his $30.1 million player option for 2019-20.

According to Steve Bulpett of the Boston Herald, "the sides have been discussing a plan where he comes in at a lower number next season and gets two more years tacked on in a new deal."

https://www.masslive.com/celtics/2019/06/al-horford-rumors-100-million-contract-may-be-waiting-elsewhere-for-horford-report.html

Marc Stein
✔
@TheSteinLine
 The belief making the front-office rounds tonight is that Al Horford already knows there’s a four-year contract worth in excess of $100 million waiting out there for him June 30 .. knowledge that led to Horford’s talks with the Celtics dissolving

Steve Bulpett, Adam Himmelsbach and Jackie Mac were all discussing on sports radio about the negotiations at the time. Fact is the Celtics did negotiate with Horford but refused to give him what he wanted so Horford broke off talks and went elsewhere.

I'm not in the Boston area, but here's the thing, why would the Celtics cry tampering if they were in negotiations with Horford first?

That doesn't make sense.

[nickagneta]

You don't live in the Boston market, do you Fierce? Horford's negotiations with the Celtics were all over the local media and sports radio here for most of late May and early June.

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/celtics-free-agency-rumors-al-horford-expected-to-sign-elsewhere-after-talks-break-down-with-boston-report-says/

According to a report from Steve Bulpett of the Boston Herald, talks between Horford and the Celtics have broken down, and the veteran will look to sign elsewhere this summer. 

Steve Bulpett
@SteveBHoop
Major change in the Al Horford situation:
Per source close to Horford, his side is no longer discussing a new 3-year deal to stay with the Celtics. He is expected to sign a 4-year free agent contract elsewhere...
Story to come.
7:24 PM · Jun 18, 2019·Twitter Web Client

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2841431-celtics-rumors-al-horford-discussing-new-3-year-contract-if-he-declines-option

Al Horford could remain with the Boston Celtics even if he declines his $30.1 million player option for 2019-20.

According to Steve Bulpett of the Boston Herald, "the sides have been discussing a plan where he comes in at a lower number next season and gets two more years tacked on in a new deal."

https://www.masslive.com/celtics/2019/06/al-horford-rumors-100-million-contract-may-be-waiting-elsewhere-for-horford-report.html

Marc Stein
✔
@TheSteinLine
 The belief making the front-office rounds tonight is that Al Horford already knows there’s a four-year contract worth in excess of $100 million waiting out there for him June 30 .. knowledge that led to Horford’s talks with the Celtics dissolving

Steve Bulpett, Adam Himmelsbach and Jackie Mac were all discussing on sports radio about the negotiations at the time. Fact is the Celtics did negotiate with Horford but refused to give him what he wanted so Horford broke off talks and went elsewhere.

I'm not in the Boston area, but here's the thing, why would the Celtics cry tampering if they were in negotiations with Horford first?

That doesn't make sense.

Because they needed to save face publicly. Because Horford actually was tampered with and the Celtics hoped to sick the NBA on their rivals.

Could be those things. Could be something else. But Ainge had been in talks with Horford since before he opted out of his contract and like all negotiations, Horford's team came in high, really high. Ainge refused to meet those demands so Horford broke off talks and decided to go with the team that would meet his demands.

Let's face it, in your scenario you are saying Horford and Ainge never negotiated before Horford decided to take Philly's offer, even when Horford was still under contract after the season and before Horford opted out.

That makes zero sense. None. And runs contrary to everything that was being reported.

[Fierce1]

You don't live in the Boston market, do you Fierce? Horford's negotiations with the Celtics were all over the local media and sports radio here for most of late May and early June.

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/celtics-free-agency-rumors-al-horford-expected-to-sign-elsewhere-after-talks-break-down-with-boston-report-says/

According to a report from Steve Bulpett of the Boston Herald, talks between Horford and the Celtics have broken down, and the veteran will look to sign elsewhere this summer. 

Steve Bulpett
@SteveBHoop
Major change in the Al Horford situation:
Per source close to Horford, his side is no longer discussing a new 3-year deal to stay with the Celtics. He is expected to sign a 4-year free agent contract elsewhere...
Story to come.
7:24 PM · Jun 18, 2019·Twitter Web Client

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2841431-celtics-rumors-al-horford-discussing-new-3-year-contract-if-he-declines-option

Al Horford could remain with the Boston Celtics even if he declines his $30.1 million player option for 2019-20.

According to Steve Bulpett of the Boston Herald, "the sides have been discussing a plan where he comes in at a lower number next season and gets two more years tacked on in a new deal."

https://www.masslive.com/celtics/2019/06/al-horford-rumors-100-million-contract-may-be-waiting-elsewhere-for-horford-report.html

Marc Stein
✔
@TheSteinLine
 The belief making the front-office rounds tonight is that Al Horford already knows there’s a four-year contract worth in excess of $100 million waiting out there for him June 30 .. knowledge that led to Horford’s talks with the Celtics dissolving

Steve Bulpett, Adam Himmelsbach and Jackie Mac were all discussing on sports radio about the negotiations at the time. Fact is the Celtics did negotiate with Horford but refused to give him what he wanted so Horford broke off talks and went elsewhere.

I'm not in the Boston area, but here's the thing, why would the Celtics cry tampering if they were in negotiations with Horford first?

That doesn't make sense.

Because they needed to save face publicly. Because Horford actually was tampered with and the Celtics hoped to sick the NBA on their rivals.

Could be those things. Could be something else. But Ainge had been in talks with Horford since before he opted out of his contract and like all negotiations, Horford's team came in high, really high. Ainge refused to meet those demands so Horford broke off talks and decided to go with the team that would meet his demands.

Let's face it, in your scenario you are saying Horford and Ainge never negotiated before Horford decided to take Philly's offer, even when Horford was still under contract after the season and before Horford opted out.

That makes zero sense. None. And runs contrary to everything that was being reported.

I would agree that maybe it would be to save face publicly.

But in the corporate world, you only cry tampering if one party violated the moratorium.

If the Celts and Horford were negotiating and they can't come to terms, the Sixers entering the picture would not be considered tampering.

It becomes tampering if all teams are not yet allowed to talk to free-agents and the Sixers didn't obey.

[arctic 3.0]

“...for he had only one idea, and that was wrong.“
Benjamin Disraeli

[nickagneta]

Fierce, tampering occurs if a team negotiated with a player that is under contract with another team or if a player is a free agent and a team negotiated with that player before the July 1st start of the free agency period.

That's it. Whether the Horford-Celtics talks broke off so Philly stepped in doesn't negate the fact that Philly was in negotiations with Horford before July 1st. That is what matters. They did and so they tampered

But Ainge is a hypocrite because he tampered with Kemba. He tampered with Hayward. And he tampered with Horford when Horford was in Atlanta.

[Fierce1]

Fierce, tampering occurs if a team negotiated with a player that is under contract with another team or if a player is a free agent and a team negotiated with that player before the July 1st start of the free agency period.

That's it. Whether the Horford-Celtics talks broke off so Philly stepped in doesn't negate the fact that Philly was in negotiations with Horford before July 1st. That is what matters. They did and so they tampered

But Ainge is a hypocrite because he tampered with Kemba. He tampered with Hayward. And he tampered with Horford when Horford was in Atlanta.

True.

That's why it's odd that the Celts would cry tampering.

Tampering is a serious charge and you would end up getting sued in the corporate world.

Guess the NBA doesn't take tampering seriously.

[nickagneta]

Guess the NBA doesn't take tampering seriously.

Ding. Ding. Ding. We have a winner.

I think Ainge went public with his Philly tampering charges because Philly's tampering was quite egregious with reports that Horford had come to terms on a deal in mid June. Also because if the NBA looked into it, Philly could be handcuffed with some bad penalties including loss of draft picks, which of course would benefit Boston.

But, the whole thing happened in the Summer of Tampering where big names moved left and right because everyone was tampering. So the league did what they have always done. They ignored it because, as you said, they don't take tampering seriously

[jambr380]

Fierce, tampering occurs if a team negotiated with a player that is under contract with another team or if a player is a free agent and a team negotiated with that player before the July 1st start of the free agency period.

That's it. Whether the Horford-Celtics talks broke off so Philly stepped in doesn't negate the fact that Philly was in negotiations with Horford before July 1st. That is what matters. They did and so they tampered

But Ainge is a hypocrite because he tampered with Kemba. He tampered with Hayward. And he tampered with Horford when Horford was in Atlanta.

I totally agree with most of this, but I do think the last part isn't totally true. The Horford (2016) and Hayward (2017) meetings took place during the allowed time. They may have had contact with them prior to the the moratorium, but neither one had made a decision until after their meetings took place.

As you mentioned, this was the summer of tampering, but there was obviously some semblance of respect between CHA and BOS since they were able to work out a s&t. Danny could have just told CHA to screw off (like Utah wanting Crowder in the Hayward signing), so it's possible he received consent to talk to Kemba. If not, I still don't hold the teams who signed and traded players to the same level of tampering as the ones who just sneakily stole a player from another team. At least in the s&t scenarios, those other teams received something in return. That seemed to be the price to pay for early access to their FAs.

[NKY fan]

Philly fans are turning against Horford. He is having a tough season so far.
I won’t be surprised if they trade him for Chris Paul. They have a history of reactionary trades.
That will make them better in the short term until Paul hoes down with an injury.