Poll: Marcus for Nerlens straight up

[MBunge]

If you want Noel, throw money at him as a RFA.  Would trading Smart for Noel make us any better than trading Rozier/Hunter and some excess 2nd rounder to the Kings for one of their 87 backup centers?

Mike

[Csfan1984]

Keep Smart and sign Noel as a RFA next year. Doubt 76ers match anything above $10 million. Noel isn't in their long term plans.

They'll match anything, they have no reason not to

I disagee. If a player doesn't fit you don't want to invest $ into him just because you can. What if besides the bad fit chemistry or even an injury comes back to bite ya.

I think the fit thing is overblown. They aren't even sure who does and doesn't fit yet. We know Okafor and Noel aren't great together but what about Noel-Saric, Noel-Embiid, Okafor-Simmons etc..

Also Noel isn't a bad player but nor is he a star. He's also a RFA next summer. The trend at the moment seems to be for teams to max their cap space and chase a star while the cap is booming, this is having an effect on the trade market for Noel. Philly aren't becoming contenders overnight so they can afford to wait, pay Noel and then use his contract later down the line to bring in help. His max salary is $22.1m I think which could bring them back some significant help in future years. In a way it becomes easier to trade him because he will have years of control.

All that is assuming Noel is even the one they decide doesn't fit. It could end up being Okafor that doesn't fit with Embiid or Saric proves to be too similar to Simmons and gets moved for wing help

Everything you posted doesn't address my points. Chemistry fit, and injury are concerns he does not look like a fit for Simmons already based on his skill set. Also Okafor is still likely the better player long term maybe by end of the season he is past Noel. After all they were all ready even.

 With that being the case no team even Philly, should over pay for limited defensive center who they intend to be their backup center which is likely Philly's case. And if they match that can't trade him right away which again goes into the chemistry and investment issue. As I said wait for off season and sign him if Philly wants Smart. If they lower their price then maybe trade for him but giving up an equal player with more upside and under longer control is not what you do.

[Moranis]

If you want Noel, throw money at him as a RFA.  Would trading Smart for Noel make us any better than trading Rozier/Hunter and some excess 2nd rounder to the Kings for one of their 87 backup centers?

Mike

Yes.  Noel is better than any big man on the Kings not named Cousins, and it isn't that close.  Noel would clearly start next to Horford on Boston, none of the Kings do that and Smart doesn't do start either.  So you improve your starting lineup for a backup guard that seems like a no brainer every single time, especially when a guy like Rozier might actually be better than Smart anyway.

[Csfan1984]

If you want Noel, throw money at him as a RFA.  Would trading Smart for Noel make us any better than trading Rozier/Hunter and some excess 2nd rounder to the Kings for one of their 87 backup centers?

Mike

Yes.  Noel is better than any big man on the Kings not named Cousins, and it isn't that close.  Noel would clearly start next to Horford on Boston, none of the Kings do that and Smart doesn't do start either.  So you improve your starting lineup for a backup guard that seems like a no brainer every single time, especially when a guy like Rozier might actually be better than Smart anyway.

Kings Centers aren't bad. Depending on what you want your center to do some would disagree that Noel is better.

[Moranis]

If you want Noel, throw money at him as a RFA.  Would trading Smart for Noel make us any better than trading Rozier/Hunter and some excess 2nd rounder to the Kings for one of their 87 backup centers?

Mike

Yes.  Noel is better than any big man on the Kings not named Cousins, and it isn't that close.  Noel would clearly start next to Horford on Boston, none of the Kings do that and Smart doesn't do start either.  So you improve your starting lineup for a backup guard that seems like a no brainer every single time, especially when a guy like Rozier might actually be better than Smart anyway.

Kings Centers aren't bad. Depending on what you want your center to do some would disagree that Noel is better.

Kings big men outside of Cousins are WCS, Koufos, Tolliver, Papagiannis, Labissierre.  None of those guys are anywhere near the player Noel is and they never will be (the two rookies I suppose could someday be).  It isn't close. 

[PickNRoll]

If you want Noel, throw money at him as a RFA.  Would trading Smart for Noel make us any better than trading Rozier/Hunter and some excess 2nd rounder to the Kings for one of their 87 backup centers?

Mike

Yes.  Noel is better than any big man on the Kings not named Cousins, and it isn't that close.  Noel would clearly start next to Horford on Boston, none of the Kings do that and Smart doesn't do start either.  So you improve your starting lineup for a backup guard that seems like a no brainer every single time, especially when a guy like Rozier might actually be better than Smart anyway.

Kings Centers aren't bad. Depending on what you want your center to do some would disagree that Noel is better.

Kings big men outside of Cousins are WCS, Koufos, Tolliver, Papagiannis, Labissierre.  None of those guys are anywhere near the player Noel is and they never will be (the two rookies I suppose could someday be).  It isn't close.

I think WCS is about the same player as Noel long-term and Koufos isn't much worse.  It's not saying much.  Noel would be behind Amir Johnson on the depth chart. 

[Csfan1984]

If you want Noel, throw money at him as a RFA.  Would trading Smart for Noel make us any better than trading Rozier/Hunter and some excess 2nd rounder to the Kings for one of their 87 backup centers?

Mike

Yes.  Noel is better than any big man on the Kings not named Cousins, and it isn't that close.  Noel would clearly start next to Horford on Boston, none of the Kings do that and Smart doesn't do start either.  So you improve your starting lineup for a backup guard that seems like a no brainer every single time, especially when a guy like Rozier might actually be better than Smart anyway.

Kings Centers aren't bad. Depending on what you want your center to do some would disagree that Noel is better.

Kings big men outside of Cousins are WCS, Koufos, Tolliver, Papagiannis, Labissierre.  None of those guys are anywhere near the player Noel is and they never will be (the two rookies I suppose could someday be).  It isn't close.

Per 36 they are very close as far as Koufos and WCS go as well as Fg%. Also they aren't bad defenders. MBunge is probably right on, for the price just go get a Kings backup center.

[PickNRoll]

Quick tangent on Noel.  I watched quite a few sixers games and I'd characterize him as a high energy player with a low IQ.  Spends a lot of time rim running for alley-oops.  Enjoys swatting the ball into the stands.  Doesn't establish position or control space well.  Prone to silly errors... has "Javale McGee Syndrome".  I don't think he'll ever be a high impact player or top tier center.

[TheSundanceKid]

Keep Smart and sign Noel as a RFA next year. Doubt 76ers match anything above $10 million. Noel isn't in their long term plans.

They'll match anything, they have no reason not to

I disagee. If a player doesn't fit you don't want to invest $ into him just because you can. What if besides the bad fit chemistry or even an injury comes back to bite ya.

I think the fit thing is overblown. They aren't even sure who does and doesn't fit yet. We know Okafor and Noel aren't great together but what about Noel-Saric, Noel-Embiid, Okafor-Simmons etc..

Also Noel isn't a bad player but nor is he a star. He's also a RFA next summer. The trend at the moment seems to be for teams to max their cap space and chase a star while the cap is booming, this is having an effect on the trade market for Noel. Philly aren't becoming contenders overnight so they can afford to wait, pay Noel and then use his contract later down the line to bring in help. His max salary is $22.1m I think which could bring them back some significant help in future years. In a way it becomes easier to trade him because he will have years of control.

All that is assuming Noel is even the one they decide doesn't fit. It could end up being Okafor that doesn't fit with Embiid or Saric proves to be too similar to Simmons and gets moved for wing help

Everything you posted doesn't address my points. Chemistry fit, and injury are concerns he does not look like a fit for Simmons already based on his skill set. Also Okafor is still likely the better player long term maybe by end of the season he is past Noel. After all they were all ready even.

 With that being the case no team even Philly, should over pay for limited defensive center who they intend to be their backup center which is likely Philly's case. And if they match that can't trade him right away which again goes into the chemistry and investment issue. As I said wait for off season and sign him if Philly wants Smart. If they lower their price then maybe trade for him but giving up an equal player with more upside and under longer control is not what you do.

I'm not at all in favour of trading for him, certainly not for Smart. But I think it's ignorant to believe Philly will just give him away because "chemistry could be an issue" or "he may get injured after we sign him"

Why is maxing him an overpay? Were they going to use that cap space somewhere else? Does it stop them when Okafor comes up for free agency is 3 years? Or Saric and Simmons in 4 years? No of course not.

If the best they can get is Rozier and picks then they may as well not bother. Especially as we are a division rival. They may as well trade him to New Orleans for Evans...

Your original answer was full of what ifs. Well what if Noel turns out to be the perfect foil for Embiid? Wouldn't it be worth finding out? If everyone is low balling you then what do you have to lose by trying it out? Nothing is the correct answer..

[Clench123]

Absolutely not

[Moranis]

If you want Noel, throw money at him as a RFA.  Would trading Smart for Noel make us any better than trading Rozier/Hunter and some excess 2nd rounder to the Kings for one of their 87 backup centers?

Mike

Yes.  Noel is better than any big man on the Kings not named Cousins, and it isn't that close.  Noel would clearly start next to Horford on Boston, none of the Kings do that and Smart doesn't do start either.  So you improve your starting lineup for a backup guard that seems like a no brainer every single time, especially when a guy like Rozier might actually be better than Smart anyway.

Kings Centers aren't bad. Depending on what you want your center to do some would disagree that Noel is better.

Kings big men outside of Cousins are WCS, Koufos, Tolliver, Papagiannis, Labissierre.  None of those guys are anywhere near the player Noel is and they never will be (the two rookies I suppose could someday be).  It isn't close.

Per 36 they are very close as far as Koufos and WCS go as well as Fg%. Also they aren't bad defenders. MBunge is probably right on, for the price just go get a Kings backup center.

There is a difference between not bad defender and elite defender.  Noel is an elite defender.  Every single metric shows this to be true.  Elite defenders, especially elite big man defenders, are hard to come by.  If all it takes to acquire an elite big man defender is a back-up defensive oriented guard, you do that every single time without question. 

Noel would start with Horford giving Boston plus to elite defenders at 4 of the 5 starting positions and solving two of Boston's glaring weaknesses, i.e. interior defense and rebounding.  I will give you that WCS or Koufos could also provide rebounding, but they will provide no where near the overall defense of Noel and neither is really much better offensively than Noel is. 

[Csfan1984]

Keep Smart and sign Noel as a RFA next year. Doubt 76ers match anything above $10 million. Noel isn't in their long term plans.

They'll match anything, they have no reason not to

I disagee. If a player doesn't fit you don't want to invest $ into him just because you can. What if besides the bad fit chemistry or even an injury comes back to bite ya.

I think the fit thing is overblown. They aren't even sure who does and doesn't fit yet. We know Okafor and Noel aren't great together but what about Noel-Saric, Noel-Embiid, Okafor-Simmons etc..

Also Noel isn't a bad player but nor is he a star. He's also a RFA next summer. The trend at the moment seems to be for teams to max their cap space and chase a star while the cap is booming, this is having an effect on the trade market for Noel. Philly aren't becoming contenders overnight so they can afford to wait, pay Noel and then use his contract later down the line to bring in help. His max salary is $22.1m I think which could bring them back some significant help in future years. In a way it becomes easier to trade him because he will have years of control.

All that is assuming Noel is even the one they decide doesn't fit. It could end up being Okafor that doesn't fit with Embiid or Saric proves to be too similar to Simmons and gets moved for wing help

Everything you posted doesn't address my points. Chemistry fit, and injury are concerns he does not look like a fit for Simmons already based on his skill set. Also Okafor is still likely the better player long term maybe by end of the season he is past Noel. After all they were all ready even.

 With that being the case no team even Philly, should over pay for limited defensive center who they intend to be their backup center which is likely Philly's case. And if they match that can't trade him right away which again goes into the chemistry and investment issue. As I said wait for off season and sign him if Philly wants Smart. If they lower their price then maybe trade for him but giving up an equal player with more upside and under longer control is not what you do.

I'm not at all in favour of trading for him, certainly not for Smart. But I think it's ignorant to believe Philly will just give him away because "chemistry could be an issue" or "he may get injured after we sign him"

Why is maxing him an overpay? Were they going to use that cap space somewhere else? Does it stop them when Okafor comes up for free agency is 3 years? Or Saric and Simmons in 4 years? No of course not.

If the best they can get is Rozier and picks then they may as well not bother. Especially as we are a division rival. They may as well trade him to New Orleans for Evans...

Your original answer was full of what ifs. Well what if Noel turns out to be the perfect foil for Embiid? Wouldn't it be worth finding out? If everyone is low balling you then what do you have to lose by trying it out? Nothing is the correct answer..

I never said give him away or implied that. What I did say is you dont over pay to keep him when he doesn't fit.

And maxing him is indeed a huge huge overpay. He isnt a max player. He is flawed and doesn't give Philly that much of a talent improvement over Okafor. You simple dont over pay for that guy when you have one or two better prospects at near equal talent already at cheaper $. Its pure crazy how some think max a guy because you can't let him walk when the guy isnt a elite player. Would you max Smart? Should we have given Turner a max? The answer is No to both and No to maxing Noel.

As for as what ifs. Those are legit questions that can come up when investing in a guy you already know doesn't fit with some of your players. If you believe you can move him later you still have to consider injury chances. It's part of being a responsible gm. And again I'm not saying you take a low offer I'm saying you let him go if he doesn't fit and someone else is willing to overpay him. If you can keep him cheap than sure match. But it's no big loss to Philly. It's not like they aren't letting KD walk it's more like they are letting Turner walk.

[Rosco917]

For me...close, but I'll pass.

Noel has no future in Philly, he can be gotten cheaper later.

Besides Smart would change the entire attitude on that 76ers team. I'm just not willing to see that.

[LarBrd33]

Couple people mentioned we should throw money at him in the summer instead. 

#1 - I'm not convinced philly lets an asset walk.   That's a reach. He's arguably their most valuable player and they are struggling to get to the salary floor.  My guess is they match any offer and work out a trade afterwards even if it's pennies on the dollar.  It would be moronic to let him walk for nothing.  Embiid is expected to be on a minutes restriction but even if he were to flourish in 40mpg ... And even if Simmons played PF (most expect him to start at SF), and even if Noel racked up a season of DNP's, he's shown enough defensively that teams are still going to have interest in trading for him two seasons from now.

#2 -  keep in mind that if you trade for Noel now, you can be the team to give him his qualifying offer next summer - which means you'd have a period of time where'd you still have cap flexibility to go after someone like Gordon Hayward.   Whereas, if you plan on just offering him 10+ million this summer, targeting another max salary no longer becomes possible because you would be eating too much salary in your Noel overpay.    So decide if you'd rather have Smart + Noel (which probably isn't happening anyways because philly will likely match any offer) or Potential Max Contact (Hayward?  Blake?  Durant?) + Noel.

[walker834]

Don't do it. I admittantly am a Marcus fan myself but there are probably reasons for that.  He's a big pg/sg who can really defend.  I think his primary position is still ultimately pg but with Isaiah here it's tough.   It's a fair deal on paper but this is one of those deals I just don't do.

I don't think Noel is a dominant center.   He's good but we have Horford and Olynyk and Amir and guys like Mickey and Zeller who can really do a lot of what Noel does.   I like our big men and particularly our guards.  Having Isaiah, Smart, Bradley and Rozier is really nice to have.  I don't move Marcus to make that shift to better big men here.

With free agency and other trade opportunities I don't force anything with this team.  I'd like Marcus to stay period and have an oldschool lineup where he can really play all over the place and as a primary pg at times too even with Isaiah.

I may not be as sold on Marcus as I was after a couple rough years offensively but he could turn that around quick.  Even if he doesn't he's still very young and a guy I hope we hang onto.

I think a major issue with the internet and the nba is people are too trade happy.   We can just build this oldschool.