Luka doesn't make those around him better.

[SHAQATTACK]

Luka is one of my favorite players . So when I compared him to all time greats , it’s really out of respect . He isn’t a picture of athleticism, kinda looks out of shape to me , same way Babe Ruth always struck me .  But his brain works at hyper speed seeing and recognizing everything on the court like Magic or Bird .  Once he decides to alter his game and us the other four players around him for more than picks he should really shine.

[mig3zwo]

players putting up better numbers after a trade is nothing new. I wouldn't say Luka is hindering developement of others.
He's a one-man-show. And I sometimes saw better chemistry in DAL when he wasn't playing. But he'll come around. If he ever wants to win it all (and not just the player titles), he'll have to stop making it about himself.
Dallas has the team to win it, I believe. But Luka is still the immature leader.

[michigan adam]

My biggest issue isn't the selfish play as much as the lack of defense.  WAY to many of the current top players think they are superstars, and then don't play defense.  Luka, Shae, Durant, Curry, Trae, Bronson...none of these guys play a lick of defense.  They barely try.  It should make you appreciate the Embiid's, Kawaii's, JT...even Giannis is a decent defender.  These are your true superstars.

[liam]

My biggest issue isn't the selfish play as much as the lack of defense.  WAY to many of the current top players think they are superstars, and then don't play defense.  Luka, Shae, Durant, Curry, Trae, Bronson...none of these guys play a lick of defense.  They barely try.  It should make you appreciate the Embiid's, Kawaii's, JT...even Giannis is a decent defender.  These are your true superstars.

Agreed. Two way players are more valuable and they should be considered in the awards and All Star selections.

[GreenEnvy]

I watched the 4th of his 73-point game. They were picking him up full court. Doubling when he got past half court. He was making great reads, smart plays, and beautiful passes. His teammates couldn’t make wide-open shots or even bunnies near the rim.

That is not a great team around him. Maybe now with Gafford and Washington they can be better defensively while allowing Luka and Kyrie to run the show offensively. But that roster is not well constructed, even with Kyrie as Robin.

Luka is a special player. Generational. It’s hard to quantify how much better he makes his team compared to others his age, but I certainly wouldn’t blame Grant Williams’ struggles on him.

[Muzzy66]

My biggest issue isn't the selfish play as much as the lack of defense.  WAY to many of the current top players think they are superstars, and then don't play defense.  Luka, Shae, Durant, Curry, Trae, Bronson...none of these guys play a lick of defense.  They barely try.  It should make you appreciate the Embiid's, Kawaii's, JT...even Giannis is a decent defender.  These are your true superstars.

I'll accept all of those except Embiid.  Embiid is lazy as hell on defence and can't guard anything that moves beyond 5 feet of the basket. 

He's one of the most immobile big men I've ever seen, and I've lost count of the number of times I've seen him downright embarrassed when trying to guard wings and quicker bigs on the perimeter.   He moves like a 36 year old 350 pound Shaq with two busted knees.   

Back to the subject of Luka - he's clearly an amazing talent, but I can't help but feel concerned by the constant ongoing lack of success.  I know he hasn't had the strongest teams on earth, but if the players around him are THAT bad he should be #1 every year in VORP, Box Plus/Minus but he's barely cracked the top 5 in either category over the past 4 years.

Also lets be honest - KG had nobody at all in Minnesota and he dragged that team to the playoffs year after year, and eventually took them to the WCF.  Hakeem win a title with a Houston team that didn't have a single other star player.  Lebron (much as I hate him) carried the Cavs to deep playoff runs year after year and even when he didn't have the greatest group around him.  Stockton and Malone had nobody else on their teams worth mentioning and they were contenders a in the West almost every year.  Giannis pretty much single handedly turned the Bucks from nothing into a perennial contender.

There comes a point in time where I have to question - if Luka really is as good as his sheer numbers suggest, why did he miss the playoffs last season? Recently he had Kyrie, Dinwiddie, Wood and Hardaway Jr.  Before that he had Brunson and Porzingis.  It's not like he hasn't had any talent around him.  I'm not going to try to suggest those are elite stacked teams, but man...they should be at least good enough for a player of his calibre to be able to make the playoffs with. 

If Luka can't get to the playoffs with a teammate as talented as Kyrie I don't know what the problem is.  Tatum took the Celtics further as a rookie the Luka seems capable of taking the Mavs as a bonafide superstar. 

[wdleehi]

My biggest issue isn't the selfish play as much as the lack of defense.  WAY to many of the current top players think they are superstars, and then don't play defense.  Luka, Shae, Durant, Curry, Trae, Bronson...none of these guys play a lick of defense.  They barely try.  It should make you appreciate the Embiid's, Kawaii's, JT...even Giannis is a decent defender.  These are your true superstars.

I'll accept all of those except Embiid.  Embiid is lazy as hell on defence and can't guard anything that moves beyond 5 feet of the basket. 

He's one of the most immobile big men I've ever seen, and I've lost count of the number of times I've seen him downright embarrassed when trying to guard wings and quicker bigs on the perimeter.   He moves like a 36 year old 350 pound Shaq with two busted knees.   

Back to the subject of Luka - he's clearly an amazing talent, but I can't help but feel concerned by the constant ongoing lack of success.  I know he hasn't had the strongest teams on earth, but if the players around him are THAT bad he should be #1 every year in VORP, Box Plus/Minus but he's barely cracked the top 5 in either category over the past 4 years.

Also lets be honest - KG had nobody at all in Minnesota and he dragged that team to the playoffs year after year, and eventually took them to the WCF.  Hakeem win a title with a Houston team that didn't have a single other star player.  Lebron (much as I hate him) carried the Cavs to deep playoff runs year after year and even when he didn't have the greatest group around him.  Stockton and Malone had nobody else on their teams worth mentioning and they were contenders a in the West almost every year.  Giannis pretty much single handedly turned the Bucks from nothing into a perennial contender.

There comes a point in time where I have to question - if Luka really is as good as his sheer numbers suggest, why did he miss the playoffs last season? Recently he had Kyrie, Dinwiddie, Wood and Hardaway Jr.  Before that he had Brunson and Porzingis.  It's not like he hasn't had any talent around him.  I'm not going to try to suggest those are elite stacked teams, but man...they should be at least good enough for a player of his calibre to be able to make the playoffs with. 

If Luka can't get to the playoffs with a teammate as talented as Kyrie I don't know what the problem is.  Tatum took the Celtics further as a rookie the Luka seems capable of taking the Mavs as a bonafide superstar.

Except we see how at least two of his teammates are game changers now that they are no longer on his team.  One as a first option and one with what should be a similar role they would of had in Dallas.   

[Celtics2021]

My biggest issue isn't the selfish play as much as the lack of defense.  WAY to many of the current top players think they are superstars, and then don't play defense.  Luka, Shae, Durant, Curry, Trae, Bronson...none of these guys play a lick of defense.  They barely try.  It should make you appreciate the Embiid's, Kawaii's, JT...even Giannis is a decent defender.  These are your true superstars.

I'll accept all of those except Embiid.  Embiid is lazy as hell on defence and can't guard anything that moves beyond 5 feet of the basket. 

He's one of the most immobile big men I've ever seen, and I've lost count of the number of times I've seen him downright embarrassed when trying to guard wings and quicker bigs on the perimeter.   He moves like a 36 year old 350 pound Shaq with two busted knees.   

Back to the subject of Luka - he's clearly an amazing talent, but I can't help but feel concerned by the constant ongoing lack of success.  I know he hasn't had the strongest teams on earth, but if the players around him are THAT bad he should be #1 every year in VORP, Box Plus/Minus but he's barely cracked the top 5 in either category over the past 4 years.

Also lets be honest - KG had nobody at all in Minnesota and he dragged that team to the playoffs year after year, and eventually took them to the WCF.  Hakeem win a title with a Houston team that didn't have a single other star player.  Lebron (much as I hate him) carried the Cavs to deep playoff runs year after year and even when he didn't have the greatest group around him.  Stockton and Malone had nobody else on their teams worth mentioning and they were contenders a in the West almost every year.  Giannis pretty much single handedly turned the Bucks from nothing into a perennial contender.

There comes a point in time where I have to question - if Luka really is as good as his sheer numbers suggest, why did he miss the playoffs last season? Recently he had Kyrie, Dinwiddie, Wood and Hardaway Jr.  Before that he had Brunson and Porzingis.  It's not like he hasn't had any talent around him.  I'm not going to try to suggest those are elite stacked teams, but man...they should be at least good enough for a player of his calibre to be able to make the playoffs with. 

If Luka can't get to the playoffs with a teammate as talented as Kyrie I don't know what the problem is.  Tatum took the Celtics further as a rookie the Luka seems capable of taking the Mavs as a bonafide superstar.

Except we see how at least two of his teammates are game changers now that they are no longer on his team.  One as a first option and one with what should be a similar role they would of had in Dallas.

Who are the two?  Porzingis, sure, but who else am I forgetting?

[bdm860]

My biggest issue isn't the selfish play as much as the lack of defense.  WAY to many of the current top players think they are superstars, and then don't play defense.  Luka, Shae, Durant, Curry, Trae, Bronson...none of these guys play a lick of defense.  They barely try.  It should make you appreciate the Embiid's, Kawaii's, JT...even Giannis is a decent defender.  These are your true superstars.

I'll accept all of those except Embiid.  Embiid is lazy as hell on defence and can't guard anything that moves beyond 5 feet of the basket. 

He's one of the most immobile big men I've ever seen, and I've lost count of the number of times I've seen him downright embarrassed when trying to guard wings and quicker bigs on the perimeter.   He moves like a 36 year old 350 pound Shaq with two busted knees.   

Back to the subject of Luka - he's clearly an amazing talent, but I can't help but feel concerned by the constant ongoing lack of success.  I know he hasn't had the strongest teams on earth, but if the players around him are THAT bad he should be #1 every year in VORP, Box Plus/Minus but he's barely cracked the top 5 in either category over the past 4 years.

Also lets be honest - KG had nobody at all in Minnesota and he dragged that team to the playoffs year after year, and eventually took them to the WCF.  Hakeem win a title with a Houston team that didn't have a single other star player.  Lebron (much as I hate him) carried the Cavs to deep playoff runs year after year and even when he didn't have the greatest group around him.  Stockton and Malone had nobody else on their teams worth mentioning and they were contenders a in the West almost every year.  Giannis pretty much single handedly turned the Bucks from nothing into a perennial contender.

There comes a point in time where I have to question - if Luka really is as good as his sheer numbers suggest, why did he miss the playoffs last season? Recently he had Kyrie, Dinwiddie, Wood and Hardaway Jr.  Before that he had Brunson and Porzingis.  It's not like he hasn't had any talent around him.  I'm not going to try to suggest those are elite stacked teams, but man...they should be at least good enough for a player of his calibre to be able to make the playoffs with. 

If Luka can't get to the playoffs with a teammate as talented as Kyrie I don't know what the problem is.  Tatum took the Celtics further as a rookie the Luka seems capable of taking the Mavs as a bonafide superstar.

Except we see how at least two of his teammates are game changers now that they are no longer on his team.  One as a first option and one with what should be a similar role they would of had in Dallas.

Who are the two?  Porzingis, sure, but who else am I forgetting?

Umm, hello?  17/7, 100% win rate.

[liam]

My biggest issue isn't the selfish play as much as the lack of defense.  WAY to many of the current top players think they are superstars, and then don't play defense.  Luka, Shae, Durant, Curry, Trae, Bronson...none of these guys play a lick of defense.  They barely try.  It should make you appreciate the Embiid's, Kawaii's, JT...even Giannis is a decent defender.  These are your true superstars.

I'll accept all of those except Embiid.  Embiid is lazy as hell on defence and can't guard anything that moves beyond 5 feet of the basket. 

He's one of the most immobile big men I've ever seen, and I've lost count of the number of times I've seen him downright embarrassed when trying to guard wings and quicker bigs on the perimeter.   He moves like a 36 year old 350 pound Shaq with two busted knees.   

Back to the subject of Luka - he's clearly an amazing talent, but I can't help but feel concerned by the constant ongoing lack of success.  I know he hasn't had the strongest teams on earth, but if the players around him are THAT bad he should be #1 every year in VORP, Box Plus/Minus but he's barely cracked the top 5 in either category over the past 4 years.

Also lets be honest - KG had nobody at all in Minnesota and he dragged that team to the playoffs year after year, and eventually took them to the WCF.  Hakeem win a title with a Houston team that didn't have a single other star player.  Lebron (much as I hate him) carried the Cavs to deep playoff runs year after year and even when he didn't have the greatest group around him.  Stockton and Malone had nobody else on their teams worth mentioning and they were contenders a in the West almost every year.  Giannis pretty much single handedly turned the Bucks from nothing into a perennial contender.

There comes a point in time where I have to question - if Luka really is as good as his sheer numbers suggest, why did he miss the playoffs last season? Recently he had Kyrie, Dinwiddie, Wood and Hardaway Jr.  Before that he had Brunson and Porzingis.  It's not like he hasn't had any talent around him.  I'm not going to try to suggest those are elite stacked teams, but man...they should be at least good enough for a player of his calibre to be able to make the playoffs with. 

If Luka can't get to the playoffs with a teammate as talented as Kyrie I don't know what the problem is.  Tatum took the Celtics further as a rookie the Luka seems capable of taking the Mavs as a bonafide superstar.

Except we see how at least two of his teammates are game changers now that they are no longer on his team.  One as a first option and one with what should be a similar role they would of had in Dallas.

Who are the two?  Porzingis, sure, but who else am I forgetting?

Brunson.

[Moranis]

These are Porzingis stats from this season and his last full season in Dallas.

20.1 ppg, 8.9 rpg, 1.6 apg, 1.3 bpg
20.2 ppg, 6.9 rpg, 1.9 apg, 1.9 bpg

He shot better from 3 and the line in Dallas but is a lot better from 2 this year.

Luka and Kristaps didn't get along personality wise, but the play on the floor was there.

Brunson obviously has the ball so much more now, but his actual production rates are similar and he was actually better from 2 and the line with Luka, though is better from 3 in NY. Better rebounder in Dallas.  Shoots a lot more shots, which obviously makes him more valuable, but his actual production is very similar on a per shot basis.

Last year the Mavs were 28-19 with Luka before trading for Kyrie (they were 0-6 without Luka pre-Irving).  The Irving trade destroyed their season last year. 

[Roy H.]

These are Porzingis stats from this season and his last full season in Dallas.

20.1 ppg, 8.9 rpg, 1.6 apg, 1.3 bpg
20.2 ppg, 6.9 rpg, 1.9 apg, 1.9 bpg

He shot better from 3 and the line in Dallas but is a lot better from 2 this year.

Luka and Kristaps didn't get along personality wise, but the play on the floor was there.

Brunson obviously has the ball so much more now, but his actual production rates are similar and he was actually better from 2 and the line with Luka, though is better from 3 in NY. Better rebounder in Dallas.  Shoots a lot more shots, which obviously makes him more valuable, but his actual production is very similar on a per shot basis.

Last year the Mavs were 28-19 with Luka before trading for Kyrie (they were 0-6 without Luka pre-Irving).  The Irving trade destroyed their season last year.

Yeah, Porzingis has always been quite productive.  His biggest issue in Dallas was that he was always injured.

As for a personality clash, it's hard to imagine KP being the problem there after he has blended in perfectly in Boston, but it's hard to say.

[bdm860]

These are Porzingis stats from this season and his last full season in Dallas.

20.1 ppg, 8.9 rpg, 1.6 apg, 1.3 bpg
20.2 ppg, 6.9 rpg, 1.9 apg, 1.9 bpg

He shot better from 3 and the line in Dallas but is a lot better from 2 this year.

Luka and Kristaps didn't get along personality wise, but the play on the floor was there.

Brunson obviously has the ball so much more now, but his actual production rates are similar and he was actually better from 2 and the line with Luka, though is better from 3 in NY. Better rebounder in Dallas.  Shoots a lot more shots, which obviously makes him more valuable, but his actual production is very similar on a per shot basis.

Last year the Mavs were 28-19 with Luka before trading for Kyrie (they were 0-6 without Luka pre-Irving).  The Irving trade destroyed their season last year.

It's the playoff stats though.

In '21, Porzingis dropped to 13.1ppg and his shots went from 15.9 fga per game to 10.3, and his usage dropped from 26.5% to 16.3%.  While Luka's shot attempts went from 20.5 to 28.0 per game, and his usage went from 36.0% to 40.4%.

Is that Luka carrying the team on his back while Porzingis craps the bed, or is that Luka ignoring Porzingis and trying to do everything himself?  (Porzingis didn't shoot well from 3, but is it chicken or egg with Luka not passing to him, or maybe just a small sample size of 7 games?).

And maybe just cherry picked clips, but there's also this compilation.

Whatever the case, hoping we don't see a big dip in Porzingis's playoff stats this year.

[Kernewek]

My biggest issue isn't the selfish play as much as the lack of defense.  WAY to many of the current top players think they are superstars, and then don't play defense.  Luka, Shae, Durant, Curry, Trae, Bronson...none of these guys play a lick of defense.  They barely try.  It should make you appreciate the Embiid's, Kawaii's, JT...even Giannis is a decent defender.  These are your true superstars.

I'll accept all of those except Embiid.  Embiid is lazy as hell on defence and can't guard anything that moves beyond 5 feet of the basket. 

He's one of the most immobile big men I've ever seen, and I've lost count of the number of times I've seen him downright embarrassed when trying to guard wings and quicker bigs on the perimeter.   He moves like a 36 year old 350 pound Shaq with two busted knees.   

Back to the subject of Luka - he's clearly an amazing talent, but I can't help but feel concerned by the constant ongoing lack of success.  I know he hasn't had the strongest teams on earth, but if the players around him are THAT bad he should be #1 every year in VORP, Box Plus/Minus but he's barely cracked the top 5 in either category over the past 4 years.

Also lets be honest - KG had nobody at all in Minnesota and he dragged that team to the playoffs year after year, and eventually took them to the WCF.  Hakeem win a title with a Houston team that didn't have a single other star player.  Lebron (much as I hate him) carried the Cavs to deep playoff runs year after year and even when he didn't have the greatest group around him.  Stockton and Malone had nobody else on their teams worth mentioning and they were contenders a in the West almost every year.  Giannis pretty much single handedly turned the Bucks from nothing into a perennial contender.

There comes a point in time where I have to question - if Luka really is as good as his sheer numbers suggest, why did he miss the playoffs last season? Recently he had Kyrie, Dinwiddie, Wood and Hardaway Jr.  Before that he had Brunson and Porzingis.  It's not like he hasn't had any talent around him.  I'm not going to try to suggest those are elite stacked teams, but man...they should be at least good enough for a player of his calibre to be able to make the playoffs with. 

If Luka can't get to the playoffs with a teammate as talented as Kyrie I don't know what the problem is.  Tatum took the Celtics further as a rookie the Luka seems capable of taking the Mavs as a bonafide superstar.

Well that and...

KG took eight seasons to get out of the first round with Minnesota
Giannis took a long, long time to see any meaningful playoff success and to date it was essentially one Cinderella run.
Hakeem made it out of the first round once before going all the way and had to wait for Jordan to retire to win a championship.
&c.

[Who]

Hakeem made it out of the first round once before going all the way and had to wait for Jordan to retire to win a championship.
&c.

Not to detract from the point. I just want to give Hakeem his due. He made it out of the first round 3 times before winning a title. He had the Finals run 1986. Then he had two series against Seattle in the second round that went 6 & 7 games. One in 1993. The other in 1987 or 1988 I think. Not sure which year. Both were great series.

They were a contender already in 1993 but were unlucky against Seattle. Very close series.

Seattle always had their number. Beat them twice in the late 80s, 1993 and again in 1996 (sweep). 4 times they beat Hakeem. Never lost to him.