Kawhi Leonard (Merged Threads)

[nostar]

I'm not sure if Ainge would give up Brown for a rental year of Leonard, but I'm a little surprised that so many people think it's out of the question he would do it.

My feeling is that Brown is a borderline all star, which might be why I feel like he's not untouchable. I really like him. He's young, aggressive, and chocked full of potential. I think his floor is Luol Deng, and despite Deng's current albatross contract and crumpled body (Thibs!), he was a really good player for about a decade. Somewhere between Luol Deng and Kawhi Leonard feels like where he'll end up.

That said, a healthy Kawhi on the C's next year puts us at the level of the Warriors and that just isn't something you pass up. Even if Kawhi leaves in 2019 we'd get a really good shot at #18 this year, potentially a better shot that we'd have in any of the subsequent years with Jaylen.

I'm not saying I'd do it, but I'm saying I don't think it's as outrageous to consider.

[tarheelsxxiii]

Have the Spurs given other teams permission to talk to Kawhi's agent? If not, I can't imagine any deal is close.  This despite the fact that the C. Paul trade was agreed to on the 28th of last year, George was traded on the 1st, etc. 

An added confound is that Kawhi's uncle is his 'agent,' though I think it's unclear if he's his primary agent or not.  If the latter, teams may have been bold enough to have already had discussions with his camp.  And the Lakers have been calling him for months, regardless.

[csfansince60s]

This is a little off topic, but tangentially related

Apparently in his new documentary Paul George mentions the Celtics along with the Lakers and Clippers as teams he's like to play for.

That doesn't really seem financially feasible, but at the very least it shows how much league opinions of this organization have changed.

https://twitter.com/hmfaigen/status/1012465785892032512

Love Kawhi over George in a vacuum, BUT....

1. Is Kawhi capable of playing anywhere near his former level?
2. If the answer is yes, his stubbornness about coming back to play this past season is a huge red flag for me. (Uncle like LaVar influence?)
3. Will he re-sign with us?

George seems fully recovered from his injury and could cost less in assets in a S&T with OKC.

Both unlikely to happen, I know.

[Tr1boy]

Ainge wont lose this game

They want JB? Well if Leonard and agent promises to stay long term , he will

If they dont guarantee the best Spurs will receive are picks (and not even the Kings pick)

Lakers sound like they will offer one of Ingram, Kuzma but not both. And have no worthwhile 1sts

[keevsnick]

To be honest, I would take George over Kawhi. Now before you raise your pitchforks, at least George has the better mentality, and at least told the Pacers that he wanted to be traded. He didn't selectively choose the Lakers as his only destination, thus eroding any trade value he had, (at the time Oladipo/Sabonis wasn't considered a great deal,) and he seems like he is still the solid 2nd/3rd go to option. In our offense, he would be most likely 2nd or even leading in assists in our team. He's a willing passer with the knack to knock down shots, and in our switch heavy defense, he would be playing so many passing lanes for easy steals.

While Kawhi is undoubtedly still a top 7 MVP player when healthy, I'm not sure his baggage and his attitude is worth taking on anymore.

Same here.

I wonder if a sign and trade around Smart and Brown and/or picks would suffice?

Im probably in the minority here but i  would straight up rather have Brown than George. I dont dispute that George is a better player right now but im not sure the gap will be huge next season assuming Brown makes another even moderate size leap and given age and contract I would just rather have Brown. Then factor in that Georges stengths are some what mitagated by having a guy in Hayward that already does what he does largely. I get trading Brown for Kawhi, I dont love it but I get it. Those MVP level guys are tradiionally needed to win. George isnt that, and if we are gonna trade young player or assets we do it for an MVP level player. Nothing less.

[Phantom255x]

To be honest, I would take George over Kawhi. Now before you raise your pitchforks, at least George has the better mentality, and at least told the Pacers that he wanted to be traded. He didn't selectively choose the Lakers as his only destination, thus eroding any trade value he had, (at the time Oladipo/Sabonis wasn't considered a great deal,) and he seems like he is still the solid 2nd/3rd go to option. In our offense, he would be most likely 2nd or even leading in assists in our team. He's a willing passer with the knack to knock down shots, and in our switch heavy defense, he would be playing so many passing lanes for easy steals.

While Kawhi is undoubtedly still a top 7 MVP player when healthy, I'm not sure his baggage and his attitude is worth taking on anymore.

Same here.

I wonder if a sign and trade around Smart and Brown and/or picks would suffice?

HUH?? Jaylen in a trade for Paul George? HELL NO.

Honestly I think that ship has sailed anyways. I like George (as a #2 guy on a championship team) but since he opted-out, it's just not financially feasible anymore.

[keevsnick]

I'm not sure if Ainge would give up Brown for a rental year of Leonard, but I'm a little surprised that so many people think it's out of the question he would do it.

My feeling is that Brown is a borderline all star, which might be why I feel like he's not untouchable. I really like him. He's young, aggressive, and chocked full of potential. I think his floor is Luol Deng, and despite Deng's current albatross contract and crumpled body (Thibs!), he was a really good player for about a decade. Somewhere between Luol Deng and Kawhi Leonard feels like where he'll end up.

That said, a healthy Kawhi on the C's next year puts us at the level of the Warriors and that just isn't something you pass up. Even if Kawhi leaves in 2019 we'd get a really good shot at #18 this year, potentially a better shot that we'd have in any of the subsequent years with Jaylen.

I'm not saying I'd do it, but I'm saying I don't think it's as outrageous to consider.

You may have a better shot in 19 than any subsecuentes year with Jaylen, but the mear cumulative effective of another 6 controlable years means with Jaylen means he's easily more value added towards a chip than Kawhi for just one year.   And if you think Jaylen is a border line all star type thats fine, but the fact his best case scenario as better than that (solid all star, all nba) has to be factoresd in to.

I think we are also massively underselling the Kawhi injury factor. I keep on seeing people say this is a no brainer if Kawhi is the guy from 16-17. But I dont think there anyway you can be sure of that, given how many time ive seen "degenerative" used to describe this injury. Even with assurance from Kawhi (which I dont think we get) about resigning, this is a mássive ver on the health of a player who might never be the same again.

[ETNCeltics]

Ainge wont lose this game

They want JB? Well if Leonard and agent promises to stay long term , he will

If they dont guarantee the best Spurs will receive are picks (and not even the Kings pick)

Lakers sound like they will offer one of Ingram, Kuzma but not both. And have no worthwhile 1sts

Why would you think that? The minute you make the trade Kawhi is under zero obligation to do anything next year.

[ETNCeltics]

I wouldn't trade any of our top 5 players for Paul George. Certainly not straight up.

I believe the chatter we're hearing about PG staying in OKC is because LAL are slow playing him to see if they can get Lebron and Kawhi. IMO, PG is just a fall back option for them.

[CelticsElite]

Anyone have a strong feeling Danny is going to end up with Leonard? It’s starting to feel real

[Phantom255x]

Anyone have a strong feeling Danny is going to end up with Leonard? It’s starting to feel real

I'm 100% feeling that Danny and the C's will NOT trade for Kawhi, period. 

[SparzWizard]

Anyone have a strong feeling Danny is going to end up with Leonard? It’s starting to feel real

That's what some of us felt about Jimmy Butler and Paul George last year.

Luckily, Gordon Hayward was real and I remember that wait was atrocious.

[tarheelsxxiii]

Have the Spurs given other teams permission to talk to Kawhi's agent? If not, I can't imagine any deal is close.  This despite the fact that the C. Paul trade was agreed to on the 28th of last year, George was traded on the 1st, etc. 

An added confound is that Kawhi's uncle is his 'agent,' though I think it's unclear if he's his primary agent or not.  If the latter, teams may have been bold enough to have already had discussions with his camp.  And the Lakers have been calling him for months, regardless.

Not sure, tbh.  Always hard to parse speculation from truth at this time of year.  It'll be interesting to see.  TP, tar.

[tstorey_97]

One point of the Leonard discussion that keeps repeating here....Ainge isn't going to trade Brown for a rental.

Stop it. Stop saying it, it isn't going to happen.

Ainge might make a deal for Leonard's last year that would involve no important Celtics starter except Irving who also, only has one year and thus has no more value to the Celtics than Leonard on his final year of his contract  would.

Ainge is working on getting acknowledged as one of the top NBA execs of all time. Stop saying he's going to "trade Brown for a rental" and focus on what he might actually be doing in this Leonard deal. It is far more interesting.

Is Ainge just trying to mess with the deal to hurt the Lakers? Or, any other team? Is his tactic to try and drive Leonard's price higher?

I don't think those are the reasons. Ainge may have a deal that does not involve Leonard and this debate might have an impact on that deal.

Leonard
Hayward
Horford
Tatum
Bown

If Irving goes out there's your line up. Is this what Ainge wants? Believe it or not? It works financially.

Is the timing for this roster correct? Are Tatum and Brown NBA title game ready? Well? Would you bet your life on it?

Can this roster beat GSW? It is Ainge's job to win a title not assemble draft picks and young players for an unidentified point in the future. Ainge has all these assets to get the transcendent player(s) that will win the title now.

If Leonard and this roster can get them a title this year? It is Ainge's responsibility to get him and if you think that Ainge would trade Jaylen Brown for one year of Leonard just what have you been smoking for the last 15+ years?

[CelticsElite]

One point of the Leonard discussion that keeps repeating here....Ainge isn't going to trade Brown for a rental.

Stop it. Stop saying it, it isn't going to happen.

Ainge might make a deal for Leonard's last year that would involve no important Celtics starter except Irving who also, only has one year and thus has no more value to the Celtics than Leonard on his final year of his contract  would.

Ainge is working on getting acknowledged as one of the top NBA execs of all time. Stop saying he's going to "trade Brown for a rental" and focus on what he might actually be doing in this Leonard deal. It is far more interesting.

Is Ainge just trying to mess with the deal to hurt the Lakers? Or, any other team? Is his tactic to try and drive Leonard's price higher?

I don't think those are the reasons. Ainge may have a deal that does not involve Leonard and this debate might have an impact on that deal.

Leonard
Hayward
Horford
Tatum
Bown

If Irving goes out there's your line up. Is this what Ainge wants? Believe it or not? It works financially.

Is the timing for this roster correct? Are Tatum and Brown NBA title game ready? Well? Would you bet your life on it?

Can this roster beat GSW? It is Ainge's job to win a title not assemble draft picks and young players for an unidentified point in the future. Ainge has all these assets to get the transcendent player(s) that will win the title now.

If Leonard and this roster can get them a title this year? It is Ainge's responsibility to get him and if you think that Ainge would trade Jaylen Brown for one year of Leonard just what have you been smoking for the last 15+ years?

tp

It’s an interesting thought and interesting lineup

Ainge might kill the point guard and go full wing