Upshaw with the 16th pick. Yes or No?

[Csfan1984]

What was Upshaw's rank before the season? Because I never saw him ranked as a prospect higher than any of the top 15 guys. Now add in another failed season. Yet some people want to draft this guy at 16 after he still proves he is tall but nothing else mind you. No testing no scrimmage just shows up and says I'm tall and have a great wingspan, draft me high. Lol Come on people. 28 is one thing but 16... 16 .. really?

[Yoki_IsTheName]

Also if he didn't have some of those questions you mentioned, Upshaw would be a top 5 pick

Make a case for him being drafted over:

Towns
Okafor
Russell
Mudiay
Winslow
Porzingis
Hezonia
Johnson
WCS

I can't see any scenario, even without the drug use, where Upshaw would go before those nine guys.

10.9 points, 8.2 rebounds, 4.5 blocks, 59% shooting in 19 games before he got kicked. He has legitimate size and great length. Very mobile for his position. Better upside than WCS and Winslow because of his physical tools and mobility.

Washington are 14-6 before he got dismissed, after which they went 2-9.

Now compare that to WCS, another Center prospect who's in the top 10. Last year he posted 8/6/1.7/57%. That's not better numbers than Upshaw.

If not for the drug problems, he's a better prospect than WCS, Stanley Johnson and could challenge Porzingis and Hezonja mainly because we could have seen more than the internationals.

It's weird to say that he can't crack the top 5 pick. A prospect with that kind of physical tools and putting up those numbers could easily be a top 5 pick. Add to it that he's only 21. The only complain you'll have right then would be his defensive fundamentals and how raw he is. But without the drug issues, I bet a lot, if not all would say "we can fix the fundamentals, he's young, he can learn." 

And if we wait on the #28, he's gone. This is the time when we can afford to swing for the fences. I would like to try and ask everyone to do this exercise. Let's just talk basketball here. Just forget for one second that he doesn't have drug problems, will you pick him at #16. I don't want to hear "but he does". Just for once, please do me a favor and look at him and take away the drug issues and tell me if he's not worth the #16 pick.

[HeadDoctorJ]

If the C's can't move up from #16 and they feel good about Upshaw, then do it. He's not just tall. He's not Fab Melo 2.0. He's Marcus Smart's age, and he can play:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5vOZho1YuM

[Celtics4ever]

Rolling the dice, on a guy with substance abuse is always risky.   I read somewhere that they have an over/under on betting if he will play 300 games in the league.

[loco_91]

I have really come around to him. The key measurement is 9'5 standing reach - that's huge. He will be a force on the defensive end - looks like one of the top 5 or so defensive prospects in the draft (WCS, Towns, Winslow, ?RHJ?, ?Turner???)

Offensively he's a work in progress but he looks like he has some upside with his size. He'll never be a floor spacer (43%FT) but it looks like he can be more than a pure garbageman with his solid footwork and touch. I think his ceiling on this end is as a good #4 option / okay #3 option.

[hwangjini_1]

A general question to cb. As I listen to posters on upshaw, I am reminded of sanders, late of Milwaukee.  I don't mean to compare these two players, but I would be curious to see which player do you think would be better as a nba center, assuming no baggage for either one?

Thanks in advance.

[Celtics18]

Also if he didn't have some of those questions you mentioned, Upshaw would be a top 5 pick

Make a case for him being drafted over:

Towns
Okafor
Russell
Mudiay
Winslow
Porzingis
Hezonia
Johnson
WCS

I can't see any scenario, even without the drug use, where Upshaw would go before those nine guys.

10.9 points, 8.2 rebounds, 4.5 blocks, 59% shooting in 19 games before he got kicked. He has legitimate size and great length. Very mobile for his position. Better upside than WCS and Winslow because of his physical tools and mobility.

Washington are 14-6 before he got dismissed, after which they went 2-9.

Now compare that to WCS, another Center prospect who's in the top 10. Last year he posted 8/6/1.7/57%. That's not better numbers than Upshaw.

If not for the drug problems, he's a better prospect than WCS, Stanley Johnson and could challenge Porzingis and Hezonja mainly because we could have seen more than the internationals.

It's weird to say that he can't crack the top 5 pick. A prospect with that kind of physical tools and putting up those numbers could easily be a top 5 pick. Add to it that he's only 21. The only complain you'll have right then would be his defensive fundamentals and how raw he is. But without the drug issues, I bet a lot, if not all would say "we can fix the fundamentals, he's young, he can learn." 

And if we wait on the #28, he's gone. This is the time when we can afford to swing for the fences. I would like to try and ask everyone to do this exercise. Let's just talk basketball here. Just forget for one second that he doesn't have drug problems, will you pick him at #16. I don't want to hear "but he does". Just for once, please do me a favor and look at him and take away the drug issues and tell me if he's not worth the #16 pick.

I'll play.  Purely based on basketball talent and physical attributes, yes, I'd take him at 16.

The unfortunate truth, though, is that the drug issues remain.  And they seem fairly serious. 

It could be too big a risk to take on this guy.  There could be a number of guys left at that position in the draft with less upside, but also considerably less downside. 

I know you say "swing for the fences," but sometimes it makes sense to go for the singles and get on base rather to take the big, loud whiff. 

[Yoki_IsTheName]

Also if he didn't have some of those questions you mentioned, Upshaw would be a top 5 pick

Make a case for him being drafted over:

Towns
Okafor
Russell
Mudiay
Winslow
Porzingis
Hezonia
Johnson
WCS

I can't see any scenario, even without the drug use, where Upshaw would go before those nine guys.

10.9 points, 8.2 rebounds, 4.5 blocks, 59% shooting in 19 games before he got kicked. He has legitimate size and great length. Very mobile for his position. Better upside than WCS and Winslow because of his physical tools and mobility.

Washington are 14-6 before he got dismissed, after which they went 2-9.

Now compare that to WCS, another Center prospect who's in the top 10. Last year he posted 8/6/1.7/57%. That's not better numbers than Upshaw.

If not for the drug problems, he's a better prospect than WCS, Stanley Johnson and could challenge Porzingis and Hezonja mainly because we could have seen more than the internationals.

It's weird to say that he can't crack the top 5 pick. A prospect with that kind of physical tools and putting up those numbers could easily be a top 5 pick. Add to it that he's only 21. The only complain you'll have right then would be his defensive fundamentals and how raw he is. But without the drug issues, I bet a lot, if not all would say "we can fix the fundamentals, he's young, he can learn." 

And if we wait on the #28, he's gone. This is the time when we can afford to swing for the fences. I would like to try and ask everyone to do this exercise. Let's just talk basketball here. Just forget for one second that he doesn't have drug problems, will you pick him at #16. I don't want to hear "but he does". Just for once, please do me a favor and look at him and take away the drug issues and tell me if he's not worth the #16 pick.

I'll play.  Purely based on basketball talent and physical attributes, yes, I'd take him at 16.

The unfortunate truth, though, is that the drug issues remain.  And they seem fairly serious. 

It could be too big a risk to take on this guy.  There could be a number of guys left at that position in the draft with less upside, but also considerably less downside. 

I know you say "swing for the fences," but sometimes it makes sense to go for the singles and get on base rather to take the big, loud whiff.

Cool. I get that. So why not just work with him to make sure he's not going down that path again?

It's the 16th pick, not top 5. There is some risk, but at that spot, who else has upside as high as he does? And he fills a need. If he's at #16, take the talent that has star potential, and just work with him and make sure the red flags won't affect his career. Because if he pans out, he'll be a very good player to have, as a keeper or a trade chip.

[Beat LA]

A general question to cb. As I listen to posters on upshaw, I am reminded of sanders, late of Milwaukee.  I don't mean to compare these two players, but I would be curious to see which player do you think would be better as a nba center, assuming no baggage for either one?

Thanks in advance.

You speak of Sanders as if the guy's dead, lol , but, anyway, it might be Upshaw, if only because of his height and weight.  Sanders, while talented, just looks like his frame wouldn't be able to support the muscle/pounds necessary to eliminate the ability of guys like Hibbert and the Gasol brothers from punishing him inside, imo.

[Beat LA]

For those of you concerned about his past drug use, I'm with you 100%, but I also believe that you might find it interesting to hear that since his dismissal from Washington, and his, by all accounts, successful stint in rehab, Upshaw has not only started listening to the right people, again, but he has also benefited from the mentoring of one Bill Walton.  Ainge should ask Bill about the guy, imo, and, if we select him, I'd love it if Walton could spend the summer mentoring him on the court, as well.  After all, Bird had Hibbert work with Bill in the offseason a few years ago, and he greatly improved, which is hardly surprising to me, so why couldn't Walton do the same for Upshaw?  Just an idea.

[Evantime34]

Not sure how you feel about Chris Mannix's sources but he seems to indicate Upshaw will be a second round pick. Which really alleviates my concern about him at 16.

Ex-Washington center Robert Upshaw is a physical specimen. He measured in at 7’0”, 258 pounds with a 7’5” wingspan at the combine. And his shot blocking numbers last season—he averaged 4.5 blocks per game—are staggering. But Upshaw’s past—he was dismissed from Washington in January, just two years after being dismissed from Fresno State, for drug violations—is sticking to him. Several NBA executives said they wouldn’t touch Upshaw in the first round; the second round could be a stretch. Upshaw has hired a life coach and has been working out at the famed P3 gym in Santa Barbara. But it’s unlikely any team will guarantee him any money.

http://www.si.com/nba/2015/05/18/nba-draft-combine-dangelo-russell-rj-hunter-stanley-johnson

[saltlover]

Robert Upshaw was suspended twice in his freshman year at Fresno State, before being banished for good after two suspensions didn't get the message through.  At the same time, Robert Upshaw was the highest-rated recruit EVER at Fresno State.  They beat out schools like Arizona, UCLA, and Louisville for him.  To banish him after a year must tell you how much of a bad influence he was.  Having a guy like Upshaw around to dominate a smaller conference like the WAC produces the type of success that earns coaches large extensions or jobs at higher-profile schools.  That Fresno State decided, in less than a year, that they were better without him says a ton.

The following year, Upshaw landed at Washington.  Due to NCAA transfer rules, he had to sit out the season.  Halfway through that  season, in which he was only allowed to practice, and not play, the coach told him to stay away from the team.  Then this year, despite being a completely dominant center, he was again kicked off the team in the middle of the season.

This isn't a player who would be getting a second chance.  He arguably wouldn't be getting a third chance.  He's literally been kicked off his team three years in a row.  NBA coaches don't have time to deal with that sort of nonsense playing 4 games in four cities over five days.  Taking him at #16 overall would be pure folly, and at 28 would probably be regrettable.

Also, he's talented, but let's be clear -- even if he didn't get kicked off his team for the second time, he would be lucky to be picked before #10.  You're not talking about getting someone with the talent and athleticism of Karl-Anthony Towns but with character flaws.  You're talking about getting someone who's around Myles Turner level, but with character flaws.  The value simply isn't there at 16 for the outsized risk that he brings with him.

[TheFlex]

For those of you concerned about his past drug use, I'm with you 100%, but I also believe that you might find it interesting to hear that since his dismissal from Washington, and his, by all accounts, successful stint in rehab, Upshaw has not only started listening to the right people, again, but he has also benefited from the mentoring of one Bill Walton.  Ainge should ask Bill about the guy, imo, and, if we select him, I'd love it if Walton could spend the summer mentoring him on the court, as well.  After all, Bird had Hibbert work with Bill in the offseason a few years ago, and he greatly improved, which is hardly surprising to me, so why couldn't Walton do the same for Upshaw?  Just an idea.

Didn't know he was buddy buddy with Bill. No wonder he's been partying hard.

In all seriousness, this is a cool tidbit to keep in mind that, to me, supports the idea that Upshaw should be taken as soon as we can get him. I'm with Yoki that we have enough picks that afford us the luxury of being able to swing and miss, so long as we were trying for a home run.

[CelticGuardian]

Robert Upshaw was suspended twice in his freshman year at Fresno State, before being banished for good after two suspensions didn't get the message through.  At the same time, Robert Upshaw was the highest-rated recruit EVER at Fresno State.  They beat out schools like Arizona, UCLA, and Louisville for him.  To banish him after a year must tell you how much of a bad influence he was.  Having a guy like Upshaw around to dominate a smaller conference like the WAC produces the type of success that earns coaches large extensions or jobs at higher-profile schools.  That Fresno State decided, in less than a year, that they were better without him says a ton.

The following year, Upshaw landed at Washington.  Due to NCAA transfer rules, he had to sit out the season.  Halfway through that  season, in which he was only allowed to practice, and not play, the coach told him to stay away from the team.  Then this year, despite being a completely dominant center, he was again kicked off the team in the middle of the season.

This isn't a player who would be getting a second chance.  He arguably wouldn't be getting a third chance.  He's literally been kicked off his team three years in a row.  NBA coaches don't have time to deal with that sort of nonsense playing 4 games in four cities over five days.  Taking him at #16 overall would be pure folly, and at 28 would probably be regrettable.

Also, he's talented, but let's be clear -- even if he didn't get kicked off his team for the second time, he would be lucky to be picked before #10.  You're not talking about getting someone with the talent and athleticism of Karl-Anthony Towns but with character flaws.  You're talking about getting someone who's around Myles Turner level, but with character flaws.  The value simply isn't there at 16 for the outsized risk that he brings with him.

People can change attributes about themselves with due effort. I think Upshaw can be our answer to our rim protection need, he can even shoot a little bit too. At the combine, I didn't see a trace of this terrible kid that everyone is making him out to be, he actually is saying some of the right things when he mentions he's "surrounding himself with the right people", one of those people is no other than Celtics legend, Bill Walton.
Who opened up to Upshaw about his own drug addiction:

http://www.csnne.com/boston-celtics/will-nba-teams-be-willing-take-chance-robert-upshaw

I think the scene is playing itself out for Upshaw to really be an impact player if he keeps his head straight and off the weed, and that is accomplished by, as Robert said himself, surrounding himself by good influences, namely Brad Stevens. And also if he doesn't let the rookie contract money at #16 fool him into not maximazing his opportunity in the NBA.

It's the draft, there's suppose to be a risk/reward aspect, no player is a sure thing until they place a foot onto the hardwood floor.

[JHTruth]

Why not?? Can't see any other players I'm excited about. Of course he may just be a headcase but you take a chance on the guy outside the lottery