The Sox are officially after Adrian Gonzalez

[Vermont Green]

I still don't get what's "in it" for the Padres to trade Gonzalez this season, and I don't blame Hoyer for asking for the kitchen sink.

I think the point is that the longer you wait to trade him (closer to end of his contract) the less you are going to get in return.  He could also get hurt and his value drop.  If they wait too long, they may get a lot less.  Timing is everything.

This will be a tough trade.  If it is just Buch and Jaco, I think about it but those two plus other top prospects, eh...

[moiso]

So, hear me out.  I think the Sox are making a push for the 2010 World Series.  The Cameron and Lackey signings don't make a whole lot of sense unless there's more to come.

The Mike Cameron signing makes Ellsbury a little more expendable.

The Lackey and (hopefully) Chapman signings would make Bucholz more expendable.

So, move Bucholz and Ellsbury to San Diego for Adrian Gonzalez, move Cameron to center, and go out there and get Matt Holliday for left.  The spending would be up around 170 million dollars for the upcoming year, but if we have the assets, we should use them to make a run for the next title.

Rotation:  Lackey, Beckett, Lester, Matsuzaka, Wakefield
Lineup:  Pedroia, Youk, Adrian Gonzalez, Martinez, Holliday, J.D. Drew, Ortiz, Cameron, Scutaro

There is no question that that team would go far.  It's amazing what money can do.

We're not getting Holliday.  Too bad what we are doing to Lowell.  I'd rather keep Lowell at the dh and eat some of Ortiz's contract.

[nickagneta]

So, hear me out.  I think the Sox are making a push for the 2010 World Series.  The Cameron and Lackey signings don't make a whole lot of sense unless there's more to come.

The Mike Cameron signing makes Ellsbury a little more expendable.

The Lackey and (hopefully) Chapman signings would make Bucholz more expendable.

So, move Bucholz and Ellsbury to San Diego for Adrian Gonzalez, move Cameron to center, and go out there and get Matt Holliday for left.  The spending would be up around 170 million dollars for the upcoming year, but if we have the assets, we should use them to make a run for the next title.

Rotation:  Lackey, Beckett, Lester, Matsuzaka, Wakefield
Lineup:  Pedroia, Youk, Adrian Gonzalez, Martinez, Holliday, J.D. Drew, Ortiz, Cameron, Scutaro

There is no question that that team would go far.  It's amazing what money can do.

This team has a lot of money but I doubt they have the money to be a $170 million team a year. $130-140 million sure. $150 million. Maybe an outside chance for one year. More than that is not going to happen.

[Big_Matt34]

I'd give up either of these packages, Buchholz/Kelly/Redick/Lin or Ellsbury/Redick/Kelly.

Westmoreland is the prospect i want them to keep, and he is supposedly borderline untouchable. He is their best position prospect since Hanley and has that type of talent, scouts absolutely LOVE him. While he was drafted out of HS he is extremely polished for his age, playing against kids 2/3 years older last year he had a .885 OPS, walked a ton, and stole 19 bases without being caught.

I like Ellsbury but id give him up, A-Gon is exactly what we need and he makes next to no money the next 2 years. Can just move Cameron to CF, and sign a LF like Nady. Cameron would just be a stopgap until someone like Kalish is ready, which shouldnt be too far off as he put up a .940 OPS in AA the 2nd half of last year.

[nickagneta]

I'd give up either of these packages. Buchholz/Kelly/Redick/Lin or Ellsbury/Redick/Kelly

Westmoreland is the prospect i want them to keep, and he is supposedly borderline untouchable. He is their best position prospect since Hanley and has that type of talent, scouts absolutely LOVE him. While he was drafted out of HS he is extremely polished for his age, playing against kids 2/3 years older last year he had a .885 OPS, walked a ton, and stole 19 bases without being caught.

What they are saying about Westmoreland this year they said about Anderson last year and Buchholz the year before. I think it's crazy to say anyone is off limits, especially for someone who if they play the next 10 years here could rack up 350 HRs and 1200 RBIs

[Big_Matt34]

What they are saying about Westmoreland this year they said about Anderson last year and Buchholz the year before. I think it's crazy to say anyone is off limits, especially for someone who if they play the next 10 years here could rack up 350 HRs and 1200 RBIs

Even after Lars 2008 season there were alot of doubters, he hadnt really developed power and there were questions about if he ever would, and he was a subpar defensive first basemen, alot of scouts figured he would end up at DH. Westmoreland hit for average, some power, took walks, stole bases, played great defense (in the short time he played OF before getting hurt). As position prospects they arent really close.

All that being said i'd give him up, but id rather not, and reports have come out since the trade deadline that he is basically untouchable. They will most likely be able to keep one of Kelly/Westmoreland, and id prefer it be Westmoreland. Red Sox develop alot of good pitching prospects, its very rare for them to have an elite position prospect.

[Chris]

What would be interesting would be if the trade Ellsbury and Bucholtz for Gonzalez, would they then get back into the Jason Bay sweepstakes...particularly as more teams start fading out?

While I would hate to give up Ellsbury and Buch, I think you have to consider it on a deal like this.  For once thing, you are getting a guy who is cost controlled for 2 more years.  Plus, if you can keep it to those two guys, and keep your other prospects, it would really set this team up well to "bridge the gap" for a couple years until guys like Kelly (perhaps a better prospect than Buch), Kalish, Westmoreland, and Iglesias are ready, while also giving them a good chance of resigning Gonzalez, and having him anchor the middle of the order for the next 6-8 years.  

I really like this lineup:

Scutaro
Pedroia
Martinez
Gonzalez
Youk
Papi/Max Ramirez
Drew
Hermida/LF
Cameron

With a rotation of Lester, Beckett, Lackey, Dice-K, Wakefield, and having Bonzer, Bowden, and Tazawa, ready to step in for injuries.  

That team is a contender for the next two years (well, depending on what they do with Beckett), and then will get a nice shot of youth.

[Big_Matt34]

What would be interesting would be if the trade Ellsbury and Bucholtz for Gonzalez.

I'd actually do that deal but id try to get Heath Bell back along with A-Gon. There is no way the Padres will get a better offer than Buchholz/Ellsbury/someone like Redick. I'd sign some like Nady to platoon with Hermida in left, but that would be a great lineup/rotation/and bullpen with Bell/Bard/Papelbon at the back of it.

As for Bay, if he really wants that extra year, have fun losing with the Mets. 4/60 is a fair deal and he'd play on a WS contender, but if he prefers the Mets then good luck to him.

[Chris]

Just throwing this out there, but if a deal with Ellsbury went down, do you think they would consider signing Damon to a 1 year deal to play/platoon in left?  He is not a base stealer anymore, but he could still hit leadoff for this team because of his ability to get on base, and work the count.  Then next winter they can go after someone more permanent.

[Big_Matt34]

Just throwing this out there, but if a deal with Ellsbury went down, do you think they would consider signing Damon to a 1 year deal to play/platoon in left?  He is not a base stealer anymore, but he could still hit leadoff for this team because of his ability to get on base, and work the count.  Then next winter they can go after someone more permanent.

I'd like that deal, he wouldnt put numbers like last year up obviously but he'd hit .280 or so with around 15 HR's, work alot of walks, and play good enough defense in left. Him and the Yankees are supposedly far apart, he wants 13 million a year while the Yanks are only offering 8. I'd still bet on him ending up back in NY for something like a 2 year/22 million dollar deal.

[Evantime34]

I still don't get what's "in it" for the Padres to trade Gonzalez this season, and I don't blame Hoyer for asking for the kitchen sink.

What's in it for them is they have atop notch first base prospect who is ready to play by the name of Blanks. Currently they are playing him in left but he is too big and slow to play there for an extended period of time.

My opinion is the Sox will go with what they have until the Padres are willing to be more reasonable with their demands. If they don't end up being reasonable we can get someone else who will become available (Miguel Cabrera, Prince Fielder) at the deadline if we seem to need it at that time.

I think in the end we give up Westmoreland, Kelly, Max Ramirez (by way of Texas) and Jed Lowrie for Gonzalez. If Lowrie can show he has value in the start of the season they should move him because we have no place to play him.

[yall hate]

Just throwing this out there, but if a deal with Ellsbury went down, do you think they would consider signing Damon to a 1 year deal to play/platoon in left?  He is not a base stealer anymore, but he could still hit leadoff for this team because of his ability to get on base, and work the count.  Then next winter they can go after someone more permanent.

not sure Damon's arm would make him worth playing in the of...

[Big_Matt34]

And maybe they are not officially after him, according to Alex Spier atleast. He does say it could change during the season but said San Diego has no desire to trade him and would have to be overwhelmed by a deal. I can definately understand that, so i still stick to my belief that their only other big move will be bringing in Adrian Beltre, which id be fine with as long as the Sox believe his struggles last year were just do to injury.

http://fullcount.weei.com/sports/boston/baseball/red-sox/2009/12/16/gonzalez-deal-unlikely-for-now/

According to multiple major-league sources, there’s very little likelihood of a deal between the Red Sox and Padres involving Adrian Gonzalez in the near future. As has been the case since last summer, the Sox continue to check in with the Padres on Gonzalez and to monitor his availability, but the team has not made a concerted push for the slugging first baseman in the aftermath of signing pitcher John Lackey and outfielder Mike Cameron. Indeed, one source suggested that there was absolutely nothing to the idea that a deal might soon be hatched

[nickagneta]

What they are saying about Westmoreland this year they said about Anderson last year and Buchholz the year before. I think it's crazy to say anyone is off limits, especially for someone who if they play the next 10 years here could rack up 350 HRs and 1200 RBIs

Even after Lars 2008 season there were alot of doubters, he hadnt really developed power and there were questions about if he ever would, and he was a subpar defensive first basemen, alot of scouts figured he would end up at DH. Westmoreland hit for average, some power, took walks, stole bases, played great defense (in the short time he played OF before getting hurt). As position prospects they arent really close.

All that being said i'd give him up, but id rather not, and reports have come out since the trade deadline that he is basically untouchable. They will most likely be able to keep one of Kelly/Westmoreland, and id prefer it be Westmoreland. Red Sox develop alot of good pitching prospects, its very rare for them to have an elite position prospect.

You mean other than Jacoby Ellsbury, Dustin Pedroia, Kevin Youkilis, Hanley Ramirez, Freddy Garcia, Trot Nixon, Kelly Shoppach, Tim Naehring, Wade Boggs, Nomar Garciaparra, Scott Cooper, Mo Vaughn,.......

You might want to revisit that last statement. That's off the top of my head. I'm sure there's a ton more.

[Fan from VT]

It is true that it is very dangerous and not good for the long term health of a franchise to deplete your farm system to make trades for current veterans.


However, being realistic, I'd have to say that "can't miss prospects" outnumber MLB star players by, whay, 10 to 1? 15 to 1? worse?  So getting rid of two prospects for a guy who would destroy opposing pitching in a park like fenway is a good move.