CelticsStrong
Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: lightspeed5 on November 30, 2012, 01:41:31 AM
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Goat? ;D
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/5055
for a rookie he isnt doing too bad, 19th best PF
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/stats/byposition?pos=PF&conference=NBA&year=season_2012&qualified=0
He is being more productive than thomas robinson who was drafted 5th overall, 16 spots above him.
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From what I've seen, sullinger plays smarter than T-rob, which is giving him the advantage in their early NBA careers.
T-rob is definitely more athletically gifted however and should become a very good player.
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Major respect for Bowen on this. He knows whats up. The spineless media does not, however.
wrong thread sorry
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For what it's worth...Hollinger has Sully ranked 13th in PER for all rookies. 6th in Rebound rate. 8th in True Shooting.
He's ranked 44th overall for all PFs.
Interestingly...Chris Wilcox has the 3rd highest True Shooting % in the league.
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I think Sully will be a great PF for us down the road.
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For what it's worth...Hollinger has Sully ranked 13th in PER for all rookies. 6th in Rebound rate. 8th in True Shooting.
He's ranked 44th overall for all PFs.
Interestingly...Chris Wilcox has the 3rd highest True Shooting % in the league.
I guess that's what happens when you're an athletic big that rolls hard to the basket when you play with Rondo! Beautiful to watch!
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I think Sully's going to a really solid player for us in the coming years (provided Danny doesn't trade him). hopefully something like a healthier (yet less athletic) Leon Powe. does the dirty work on the boards, scores buckets in the paint and gets to the line (a lot).
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Sully has been tossed in the fire to spell Bass. And he holds his own pretty darn good for a kid, I think. He seems to have earned the respect of KG and Pierce , two old hard nosed players. There are some HOT-SHOT rookie guards with great numbers and couple guys on really lousey teams playing tons of minutes making better numbers.
But, as a TRUE rookie, not some 25 year old joker who played ball in Italy for years making his NBA start, SUlly just playing the amount of minutes he plays I bet he is one of the best out there. Go in and does exactly what he is told and plays hard "EVERY GAME" and he might get out foxxed , but never quits .
Lakers would LOVE to have Sully ,I can tell you.
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I think Sully's going to a really solid player for us in the coming years (provided Danny doesn't trade him). hopefully something like a healthier (yet less athletic) Leon Powe. does the dirty work on the boards, scores buckets in the paint and gets to the line (a lot).
I think he has way more potential than Leon ever had. Sully is much much better on the offensive end but I still think he can play the dirty work, hustle role that Leon was so great at. For the NBA, I never thought Leon had much of a post game or jump shot, he got his points off of hustle, rebounds, and transition plays. Sullinger is a guy we could give the ball in the post to, or he could make a move to the basket facing up his opponent.
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He has been put in a position to be successful (good coaching and management) and has taken that opportunity to succeed and grow (what you want out of the player)
Hopefully they keep adding more and more to his plate as he continues to grow.
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i like what i see in sully thus far. i hope he continues to mature and grow. i like how doc has given him an opportunity, but is doing so the right way, in moderation. crossing my fingers that there is no "rookie wall" and he continues to develop and eventually play an impactful role for us.
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He has got to be one of the slowest players that I've ever seen in my life, and he needs to lose 10-20 pounds. Based on what I've seen so far, he's not close to being as good as Powe was at his best. He is a good passer and a good rebounder, I'll say that. Defense is average to slightly above average. Jury is still out on this guy from where I sit.
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He plays atrocious defense.
Hopefully some GM out there gets enamored with Sully's offensive #'s and trades us a REAL big man.
I loathe undersized, slow-footed, no-defense, all-offense PFs. UGH!
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He plays atrocious defense.
Hopefully some GM out there gets enamored with Sully's offensive #'s and trades us a REAL big man.
I loathe undersized, slow-footed, no-defense, all-offense PFs. UGH!
Powe/Baby we're both pretty bad their first few years. (Powe never really got to playing good defense) But both figured it out with time how to play effectively, as has Bass.
Giving up on a useful big man 15 games into his rookie season because he's bad defensivelY? Most rookies are really bad defensively.
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I think Sullinger will develop and become a good starter for years to come with this team. Just give him some time...
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He plays atrocious defense.
Hopefully some GM out there gets enamored with Sully's offensive #'s and trades us a REAL big man.
I loathe undersized, slow-footed, no-defense, all-offense PFs. UGH!
I don't like him either, but he is not an atrocious defender. On the ball, though...
maybe. I amend my former statement to- average team defender.
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I think his team defense is even worse than his man to man defense. Gets completely lost in rotations and is slow when he's not lost.
Forces others to rotate down and surrender wide open shots from the next player.
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What evidence is there that Sullinger plays bad defense? Doc has stated that Sullinger knows the rotations better than the vets even. KG doesn't call someone a high IQ player and compare him favorably to Perk if you can't play defense. He's not as good as Perk but he's around where Perk was at 20. Doc won't give him minutes if he can't play defense. Watching him, he moves his feet extremely well, he draws charges, blocks shots, gets steals and boxes out. I would argue that he's one of the better defenders on the team.
Just because a guy has a certain body type doesn't mean he's "slow" and automatically can't defend. I've rarely seen anyone blow by Sullinger or him not run out and contest shots on the perimeter. He doesn't have the tools to be an athletic lock-down defender, but he has the length, quickness and IQ to be a good one, which he is.
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He is being more productive than thomas robinson who was drafted 5th overall, 16 spots above him.
He's also more productive than Darko, a second overall pick with years of NBA experience. So what?
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He needs to play more. We are in desperate need of his rebounding. Rebounding is part of defense, I'll deal with his on the ball issues if he's going to rebound the basketball and not give up second chance opportunities.
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He needs to play more. We are in desperate need of his rebounding. Rebounding is part of defense, I'll deal with his on the ball issues if he's going to rebound the basketball and not give up second chance opportunities.
Our defensive rebounding has been just fine. Our defense has not been.
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He needs to play more. We are in desperate need of his rebounding. Rebounding is part of defense, I'll deal with his on the ball issues if he's going to rebound the basketball and not give up second chance opportunities.
Our defensive rebounding has been just fine. Our defense has not been.
I agree. Although I think Sully has quietly turned into one of our best big man defenders over the last handful of games. It's by default, but no less true. He doesn't protect the basket, but he is more consistently in good defensive position than any of the other big men.
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He needs to play more. We are in desperate need of his rebounding. Rebounding is part of defense, I'll deal with his on the ball issues if he's going to rebound the basketball and not give up second chance opportunities.
Our defensive rebounding has been just fine. Our defense has not been.
Correct. I was somewhat surprised to see we actually rank out as the 6th team in defensive rebounding percentage. Sullinger has been slightly better than league average in this respect, which is acceptable for a rookie.
However, we're bottom feeders in terms of defensive efficiency (pts per 100 possession is an atrocious 103), which is just killing us.
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I have been happy with Sully so fare this season. I think he will be at his best defensively when paired with an athletic 6'10+ shot blocking center.
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I think he will be at his best defensively when paired with an athletic 6'10+ shot blocking center.
Isn't everyone? ;D
The problem is these don't exactly grow on trees. Here's to hoping that Fab Melo pans out.
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absolutely love Sully right now...looking like an absolute steal...he's doing better than the other 15 picks ahead of him.
Rivers, Robinson, Lamb, White, Jones, etc...love it!
More surprised...100% 3pt?
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He plays atrocious defense.
Hopefully some GM out there gets enamored with Sully's offensive #'s and trades us a REAL big man.
I loathe undersized, slow-footed, no-defense, all-offense PFs. UGH!
Powe/Baby we're both pretty bad their first few years. (Powe never really got to playing good defense) But both figured it out with time how to play effectively, as has Bass.
Giving up on a useful big man 15 games into his rookie season because he's bad defensivelY? Most rookies are really bad defensively.
Well, if Sully does, in time, learn to play better defense, my opinion of him would likely change. I just don't think he will ever be a good defender. His atheletic limitations will likely always hinder him on that end of the court.
Unlike Davis, Sully has very little lateral quickness. Neither have any "hops", but Davis is a good defender due to said lateral quickness, combined with his gerth. Sully has some gerth, and a much higher IQ, but I really believe his lack of quickness will be the ultimate deciding factor.
As to your point about giving up on a rookie, I don't really see how getting a higher quality big man through trade, especially when we are in win-now mode, is truly giving up. Sometimes the best use of assets isn't keeping them and seeing them fully develop, it's flipping them for a better player in the here and now.
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I don't care what people say about Sully, my eyes say he is bad on D. I won't say is horrible anymore but he is still bad. He gets ran around like he isn't there and he is too slow to rotate (yes he has a high IQ but genius does not make you get to a spot faster)! He is solid on man d though when he isn't facing anyone too quick, he uses his body well.
When KG compares him to Perk doesn't mean he is talking defensively, Perk did a lot of great things that never show up on the stat sheet (that's an aside to his defense), he was tough, and played hard! I can definitely see those qualities in Sully but no way KG was talking about defense in comparison.
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A lot of analysts / media critics have said Sully is slow but I just don't see that at all. He's not Larry Nance but rarely do I see guys just burning by him. He's generally in good position on D as well. Not a major shot blocker but he mixes it up.
I think the single most important thing Sully can do moving forward is to hit the weight room in a major way and focus on his upper body. Reggie Evans, amazingly, makes Sully look small.
If he can trim about 10-15 pounds of baby fat and replace with about 15-20 pounds of upper body strength - he will be a real bruiser under the boards, with a lot of skill as well. Like a Reggie Evans, with serious skills.
I like his future, but he needs the Perkins program.
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I also think his intelligence and foot work make up for a lot of the athleticism he is lacking.
For a true rookie, he's doing pretty [dang] good.
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He plays atrocious defense.
Hopefully some GM out there gets enamored with Sully's offensive #'s and trades us a REAL big man.
I loathe undersized, slow-footed, no-defense, all-offense PFs. UGH!
Didn't I see an article recently that talked about how HORRIBLE Anthony Davis has been defensively this year? That the Hornets become such a dramatically worse team when he's on the court?
This is for a guy who was hailed as the next KG, and a guy who people said was a sure thing on defense, but uncertain on offense.
Also people are WAY overrating how bad Sully's defense is. Maybe you guys haven't watched any games since the first week but he's already improved a LOT, and lately he's actually been pretty good. When he's defending 1-on-1 he's defended better then most guys on our team, he's just a little slow with team defence. That probably has somethign to do with the fact that he's played 15 games with the team and 15 games as an NBA player.
He's numbers aside, he's one of our most important players right now. He brings more to this team (on a more consistent basis) then Bass does ALREADY. If I had to trade one, I would trade Bass (even though I do like him on the team).
Kid works his butt off every night, give him a break.
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For what it's worth...Hollinger has Sully ranked 13th in PER for all rookies. 6th in Rebound rate. 8th in True Shooting.
He's ranked 44th overall for all PFs.
Interestingly...Chris Wilcox has the 3rd highest True Shooting % in the league.
He's 10th in statistic efficiency among Rookies
#1 - Anthony Davis (when he plays) - 20.0
#2 - Damian Lillard - 17.3
#3 - MKG - 14.2
#4 - Jonas V - 12.3
#5 - Kyle Singer - 10.4
#6 - Drummond - 10.4
#7 - Barnes - 10.2
#8 - Dion Waiters - 9.8
#9 - Alexey Shved - 9.6
#10 - Sully - 8.4
He aiight... about what you'd expect from a late 1st rounder who is our 3rd best big man by default.
For rookies who are averaging at least 12 minutes per game.... Efficiency per 48 minutes Sully is 8th (actually ahead of Damian Lillard who is averaging over 37 minutes for the Blazers... hence his big stats)
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Efficiency is a bad thing to look at, its pretty much all about how much you shoot.
You can raise it by chucking shots at anything greater than a 33% clip.
Sullinger's usage is at 14.3% taking only 4 shots a game or 9 shots per 36 minutes.
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I think sullinger has been the steal of the draft honestly...its not often you see rookies performing like him on "contending" teams.
he looks more like a veteran out there than someone who has played just 15 NBA games.
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He plays atrocious defense.
Hopefully some GM out there gets enamored with Sully's offensive #'s and trades us a REAL big man.
I loathe undersized, slow-footed, no-defense, all-offense PFs. UGH!
If you actually think he plays atrocious defense then you have no ability to analyze basketball. Sorry dude but your just repeating what you may have read, not what you see. The dude is a good defender.
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I think his team defense is even worse than his man to man defense. Gets completely lost in rotations and is slow when he's not lost.
Forces others to rotate down and surrender wide open shots from the next player.
Yall are watching some other games because you are as wrong as can be. He wouldnt be able to draw the charges he does if he was never in position. He also wouldnt be playing if he wasnt rotating. Sorry dude, but, your wrong.
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Reading some of these comments really makes me realize how lacking alot of yalls ability is to analyze talent. He does everything right. Good thing you guys aernt the coach.
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That's hard work on Sullys part puts the time in
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I think his team defense is even worse than his man to man defense. Gets completely lost in rotations and is slow when he's not lost.
Forces others to rotate down and surrender wide open shots from the next player.
Yall are watching some other games because you are as wrong as can be. He wouldnt be able to draw the charges he does if he was never in position. He also wouldnt be playing if he wasnt rotating. Sorry dude, but, your wrong.
He's not never in the right spot, he's trying but screws up a lot.
He did look good against the Blazers but who didn't on the Cs!
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He can shoot but we really need him to rebound more than anything. It's nice he has some touch but we need boards.
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For the record, Sullinger's defensive rating this season is a 105. That's not terrible. Not elite, but not terrible.
Anthony Davis this season is not much better at 104.
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He can shoot but we really need him to rebound more than anything. It's nice he has some touch but we need boards.
He's been rebounding pretty well, 15.2 RR. His defensive board work could use some improvement but he's doing a good job on both ends when he's in.
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I think his team defense is even worse than his man to man defense. Gets completely lost in rotations and is slow when he's not lost.
Forces others to rotate down and surrender wide open shots from the next player.
Yall are watching some other games because you are as wrong as can be. He wouldnt be able to draw the charges he does if he was never in position. He also wouldnt be playing if he wasnt rotating. Sorry dude, but, your wrong.
He's not never in the right spot, he's trying but screws up a lot.
He did look good against the Blazers but who didn't on the Cs!
Apparently these Blazers are a good defensive team.
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SUlly is adjusting his game to NBA , playing taller & Quicker players every game requires tweaking for sets. In college , he could work at 75% energy and still dominate most teams . Here he has to learn and know each and every man 's weakness and tendencies work on new moves while learning a complex "D". It takes a while to deveople a complete NBA game. He'll figure out how to get open looks for jumpers, and how to put the ball in down low. Just gonna take some serious work , but he's only 20 .
I think by seasons end . 10 points /8 rebounds/game would be nice contribution by a rookie 20th pick.
His defense is improving somewhat.
I think the Celtics lucked out getting Fab, KJ and Sully, and at the same time dumped JJJ and picked up Lee.
In the big picture the rookies will pay off.
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SUlly is adjusting his game to NBA , playing taller & Quicker players every game requires tweaking for sets. In college , he could work at 75% energy and still dominate most teams . Here he has to learn and know each and every man 's weakness and tendencies work on new moves while learning a complex "D". It takes a while to deveople a complete NBA game. He'll figure out how to get open looks for jumpers, and how to put the ball in down low. Just gonna take some serious work , but he's only 20 .
I think by seasons end . 10 points /8 rebounds/game would be nice contribution by a rookie 20th pick.
His defense is improving somewhat.
I think the Celtics lucked out getting Fab, KJ and Sully, and at the same time dumped JJJ and picked up Lee.
In the big picture the rookies will pay off.
good points above. just in terms of stats, right now sully is 5th on the celtics in reb/game. (4.3 reb/game in 17:37 min.)
but projected to 30 minutes a game for comparison purposes, sully is 1st on the team (or really close to it). pretty good for rookie. i am happy with this pick by the celtics so far.
his defense...i can see what you mean when you say his defense is improving. yes, i agree. but looking at him against portland he still has a LONG way to go to pick up on the defensive schemes and switches.
so often he would switch at the wrong time (early/late) or to the wrong guy. he would wind up double teaming someone without the ball as a result.
but this too will improve with time and experience.
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if sully wasnt called for such ticky tack fouls, his defense would look alot better IMO
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I'm loving what I'm seeing from Sully. I never expected him to be legit on defense, so I'm not looking for it. I just want to see him be solid on D, really good rebounder, and contribute down low. And considering his role right now, I don't think we could ask for much more out of a rookie.
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He plays atrocious defense.
Hopefully some GM out there gets enamored with Sully's offensive #'s and trades us a REAL big man.
I loathe undersized, slow-footed, no-defense, all-offense PFs. UGH!
Oh my God, yeah, that Zach Randolph guy is such a bad player!
Not to mention Kevin Love! Who would want a guy like that on their team?
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I'm loving what I'm seeing from Sully. I never expected him to be legit on defense, so I'm not looking for it. I just want to see him be solid on D, really good rebounder, and contribute down low. And considering his role right now, I don't think we could ask for much more out of a rookie.
considering what we have generally gotten from Rookies on this team, Sullinger has been a pleasant surprise becoming a solid role-player