Lebron’s Histrionics

[Moranis]

“[Tonight’s] game was decided by the players. In Boston, the game was decided by the refs.”

He is such a ----.

Still climbing that hill huh.  Unbelievable.

I mean, couldn't the argument be made, that BY MAKING THE CALL the refs would be deciding the game, not the players?

He's a tool.  And people wonder why Jordan is so beloved for the most part while Lebron is a lightning rod. 

This is part of the reason.  Whiny crap like this.

Is Jordan beloved?  Every report I've ever read about him was about how much of a an a hole he was, how most of his teammates despised him, how he basically has no friends from his time in the sport, etc.  The media definitely has created a mystique and legend about Jordan more than any other player, but I don't think beloved is the right word to use with Jordan.  Magic is beloved, Jordan is not.

Yeah, he is.  I guarantee if you polled NBA fans, you'd find much more positive feedback on Jordan than Lebron.  Any off the court stuff has pretty much had a negligible impact on the perception of Jordan by the general public. 

The so called "heir apparents" Kobe & Lebron have been much more polarizing among the general public

I have no doubt fans have a more positive view of Jordan than Lebron, but that doesn't make Jordan beloved.  I just don't think it is the correct word.

Most popular?

Revered?  Adulated?  I think we get the point I was making.

I mean, its really just semantics.  Regardless, Jordan is held is higher regard than Lebron.   I'm not sure there is anything Lebron can do at this point to reverse that.

I'm guessing that in 25 or 30 years when all of the people that grew up on the altar of Jordan are no longer living, you are going to see a significant shift on the debate as to who is better.  It will be very hard to argue against the sport's all time leading scorer who also happened to retire in the top 4 of assists, top 10 of steals, top 25 (or so) in rebounds, and top 75 (or so) in blocks with all of the Finals appearances, similar MVP's, etc. I don't think it will be a debate at all.  People will just say Lebron is better and won't get push back. 

[Roy H.]

“[Tonight’s] game was decided by the players. In Boston, the game was decided by the refs.”

He is such a ----.

Still climbing that hill huh.  Unbelievable.

I mean, couldn't the argument be made, that BY MAKING THE CALL the refs would be deciding the game, not the players?

He's a tool.  And people wonder why Jordan is so beloved for the most part while Lebron is a lightning rod. 

This is part of the reason.  Whiny crap like this.

Is Jordan beloved?  Every report I've ever read about him was about how much of a an a hole he was, how most of his teammates despised him, how he basically has no friends from his time in the sport, etc.  The media definitely has created a mystique and legend about Jordan more than any other player, but I don't think beloved is the right word to use with Jordan.  Magic is beloved, Jordan is not.

Yeah, he is.  I guarantee if you polled NBA fans, you'd find much more positive feedback on Jordan than Lebron.  Any off the court stuff has pretty much had a negligible impact on the perception of Jordan by the general public. 

The so called "heir apparents" Kobe & Lebron have been much more polarizing among the general public

I have no doubt fans have a more positive view of Jordan than Lebron, but that doesn't make Jordan beloved.  I just don't think it is the correct word.

Most popular?

Revered?  Adulated?  I think we get the point I was making.

I mean, its really just semantics.  Regardless, Jordan is held is higher regard than Lebron.   I'm not sure there is anything Lebron can do at this point to reverse that.

I'm guessing that in 25 or 30 years when all of the people that grew up on the altar of Jordan are no longer living, you are going to see a significant shift on the debate as to who is better.  It will be very hard to argue against the sport's all time leading scorer who also happened to retire in the top 4 of assists, top 10 of steals, top 25 (or so) in rebounds, and top 75 (or so) in blocks with all of the Finals appearances, similar MVP's, etc. I don't think it will be a debate at all.  People will just say Lebron is better and won't get push back.

Perhaps, but six rings speak loudly, and Jordan would probably have seven or eight rings if he hadn't taken time away from the game.

Lebron has had the most prolific career in NBA history.  That doesn't make him the GOAT, it just means he's been good longer than anybody else.  And, it's an open question regarding how much of that longer peak has been aided by pharmaceuticals.

[Donoghus]

“[Tonight’s] game was decided by the players. In Boston, the game was decided by the refs.”

He is such a ----.

Still climbing that hill huh.  Unbelievable.

I mean, couldn't the argument be made, that BY MAKING THE CALL the refs would be deciding the game, not the players?

He's a tool.  And people wonder why Jordan is so beloved for the most part while Lebron is a lightning rod. 

This is part of the reason.  Whiny crap like this.

Is Jordan beloved?  Every report I've ever read about him was about how much of a an a hole he was, how most of his teammates despised him, how he basically has no friends from his time in the sport, etc.  The media definitely has created a mystique and legend about Jordan more than any other player, but I don't think beloved is the right word to use with Jordan.  Magic is beloved, Jordan is not.

Yeah, he is.  I guarantee if you polled NBA fans, you'd find much more positive feedback on Jordan than Lebron.  Any off the court stuff has pretty much had a negligible impact on the perception of Jordan by the general public. 

The so called "heir apparents" Kobe & Lebron have been much more polarizing among the general public

I have no doubt fans have a more positive view of Jordan than Lebron, but that doesn't make Jordan beloved.  I just don't think it is the correct word.

Most popular?

Revered?  Adulated?  I think we get the point I was making.

I mean, its really just semantics.  Regardless, Jordan is held is higher regard than Lebron.   I'm not sure there is anything Lebron can do at this point to reverse that.

I'm guessing that in 25 or 30 years when all of the people that grew up on the altar of Jordan are no longer living, you are going to see a significant shift on the debate as to who is better.  It will be very hard to argue against the sport's all time leading scorer who also happened to retire in the top 4 of assists, top 10 of steals, top 25 (or so) in rebounds, and top 75 (or so) in blocks with all of the Finals appearances, similar MVP's, etc. I don't think it will be a debate at all.  People will just say Lebron is better and won't get push back.

I'm sure that's your hope.

Babe Ruth has been dead for nearly 75 years, hasn't played in over 85 years and you'd be hard-pressed to find more than a handful of people still alive who actually saw him play and is still generally regarded as the GOAT in his sport.   
'
So that theory might not necessarily come true.

[MarcusSmartFanClub]

Pharmies or working out/sleeping/eating right. Staying up late to gamble he does not.

[Roy H.]

Pharmies or working out/sleeping/eating right. Staying up late to gamble he does not.

In my mind, it's probably all of the above.  Lebron reportedly spends $1 million per year working on his body.  My guess is that a percentage of that might include a few designer "supplements".  Of course, I feel the same way about Tom Brady, which I know is a very taboo topic in Boston.  I just don't think that clean living adds 10 years to somebody's prime, even among the best of the best.

I personally wouldn't be opposed to leagues allowing monitored PED use, particularly for recovery purposes.  They're modern medicine and can be safe and effective if used properly.  But, I do suspect that a lot of athletes' longevity is a result of dabbling with drugs that are legally prohibited.

[MarcusSmartFanClub]

Sure we can guess that Lebron takes illegal drugs. We can also guess that MJ had unethical gambling habits. I like both MJ and Lebron, and I see no reason to besmirch either.

[Kernewek]

“[Tonight’s] game was decided by the players. In Boston, the game was decided by the refs.”

He is such a ----.

Still climbing that hill huh.  Unbelievable.

I mean, couldn't the argument be made, that BY MAKING THE CALL the refs would be deciding the game, not the players?

He's a tool.  And people wonder why Jordan is so beloved for the most part while Lebron is a lightning rod. 

This is part of the reason.  Whiny crap like this.

Is Jordan beloved?  Every report I've ever read about him was about how much of a an a hole he was, how most of his teammates despised him, how he basically has no friends from his time in the sport, etc.  The media definitely has created a mystique and legend about Jordan more than any other player, but I don't think beloved is the right word to use with Jordan.  Magic is beloved, Jordan is not.

Yeah, he is.  I guarantee if you polled NBA fans, you'd find much more positive feedback on Jordan than Lebron.  Any off the court stuff has pretty much had a negligible impact on the perception of Jordan by the general public. 

The so called "heir apparents" Kobe & Lebron have been much more polarizing among the general public

I have no doubt fans have a more positive view of Jordan than Lebron, but that doesn't make Jordan beloved.  I just don't think it is the correct word.

Most popular?

Revered?  Adulated?  I think we get the point I was making.

I mean, its really just semantics.  Regardless, Jordan is held is higher regard than Lebron.   I'm not sure there is anything Lebron can do at this point to reverse that.

I'm guessing that in 25 or 30 years when all of the people that grew up on the altar of Jordan are no longer living, you are going to see a significant shift on the debate as to who is better.  It will be very hard to argue against the sport's all time leading scorer who also happened to retire in the top 4 of assists, top 10 of steals, top 25 (or so) in rebounds, and top 75 (or so) in blocks with all of the Finals appearances, similar MVP's, etc. I don't think it will be a debate at all.  People will just say Lebron is better and won't get push back.

This doesn't track for me - if we figure Be Like Mike came out in 1991, Space Jam came out in 1996, and Jordan's last ring came in 1998, you think all the kids born in the late 80's and early 90's who are dyed in the wool Jordan GOATers are going to die off in 20-30 years?

What's your explanation for a mass extinction event for people in their late 50's and early 60's?

[Moranis]

“[Tonight’s] game was decided by the players. In Boston, the game was decided by the refs.”

He is such a ----.

Still climbing that hill huh.  Unbelievable.

I mean, couldn't the argument be made, that BY MAKING THE CALL the refs would be deciding the game, not the players?

He's a tool.  And people wonder why Jordan is so beloved for the most part while Lebron is a lightning rod. 

This is part of the reason.  Whiny crap like this.

Is Jordan beloved?  Every report I've ever read about him was about how much of a an a hole he was, how most of his teammates despised him, how he basically has no friends from his time in the sport, etc.  The media definitely has created a mystique and legend about Jordan more than any other player, but I don't think beloved is the right word to use with Jordan.  Magic is beloved, Jordan is not.

Yeah, he is.  I guarantee if you polled NBA fans, you'd find much more positive feedback on Jordan than Lebron.  Any off the court stuff has pretty much had a negligible impact on the perception of Jordan by the general public. 

The so called "heir apparents" Kobe & Lebron have been much more polarizing among the general public

I have no doubt fans have a more positive view of Jordan than Lebron, but that doesn't make Jordan beloved.  I just don't think it is the correct word.

Most popular?

Revered?  Adulated?  I think we get the point I was making.

I mean, its really just semantics.  Regardless, Jordan is held is higher regard than Lebron.   I'm not sure there is anything Lebron can do at this point to reverse that.

I'm guessing that in 25 or 30 years when all of the people that grew up on the altar of Jordan are no longer living, you are going to see a significant shift on the debate as to who is better.  It will be very hard to argue against the sport's all time leading scorer who also happened to retire in the top 4 of assists, top 10 of steals, top 25 (or so) in rebounds, and top 75 (or so) in blocks with all of the Finals appearances, similar MVP's, etc. I don't think it will be a debate at all.  People will just say Lebron is better and won't get push back.

Perhaps, but six rings speak loudly, and Jordan would probably have seven or eight rings if he hadn't taken time away from the game.

Lebron has had the most prolific career in NBA history.  That doesn't make him the GOAT, it just means he's been good longer than anybody else.  And, it's an open question regarding how much of that longer peak has been aided by pharmaceuticals.

Does 11 rings not ring louder (Kareem has 6 rings also, more MVP's, more finals appearances, and better career stats - why is he disregarded as well)?  And people started calling Jordan the greatest ever after he retired in 1993.  Look at the statue outside the United Center.  The ring argument is the only one that can be made at this point because Lebron dwarfs Jordan in statistical achievement.  I don't think that ring argument will hold up as well once the people that grew up in the Jordan era age out of relevancy.  And 50 years from now, whoever is the next great best player in the world will hold more sway than that old guy Lebron their grandpa's talk about.  That is the way it always works.

I think the Bulls were cooked in 93 and Jordan knew it.  Jordan retiring allowed them to remake the entire team.  Jordan and Pippen are the only two players that were on both the 3rd and 4th titles.  I don't think that transition happens if Jordan doesn't retire, and I don't think the Bulls would have beaten the Rockets.  They always struggled with Hakeem's teams.  They had no answer for him.  The Bulls, with Jordan, also couldn't get by Shaq in 95 either.  I just don't buy the narrative if he didn't retire he would have had 8 rings.  I think it is more likely that he had less than 6 rings rather than more than 6 rings if he didn't step away in 93 (and I think he would have lost a finals eliminating the 6-0 narrative).  He was just so intense, he burnt not only himself out, but the entire team.  They were basically toast and needed a whole new group of players and I don't see how that happens with Jordan still there.  Him leaving allowed the team to reset and move on from everyone other than Pippen.

[Moranis]

“[Tonight’s] game was decided by the players. In Boston, the game was decided by the refs.”

He is such a ----.

Still climbing that hill huh.  Unbelievable.

I mean, couldn't the argument be made, that BY MAKING THE CALL the refs would be deciding the game, not the players?

He's a tool.  And people wonder why Jordan is so beloved for the most part while Lebron is a lightning rod. 

This is part of the reason.  Whiny crap like this.

Is Jordan beloved?  Every report I've ever read about him was about how much of a an a hole he was, how most of his teammates despised him, how he basically has no friends from his time in the sport, etc.  The media definitely has created a mystique and legend about Jordan more than any other player, but I don't think beloved is the right word to use with Jordan.  Magic is beloved, Jordan is not.

Yeah, he is.  I guarantee if you polled NBA fans, you'd find much more positive feedback on Jordan than Lebron.  Any off the court stuff has pretty much had a negligible impact on the perception of Jordan by the general public. 

The so called "heir apparents" Kobe & Lebron have been much more polarizing among the general public

I have no doubt fans have a more positive view of Jordan than Lebron, but that doesn't make Jordan beloved.  I just don't think it is the correct word.

Most popular?

Revered?  Adulated?  I think we get the point I was making.

I mean, its really just semantics.  Regardless, Jordan is held is higher regard than Lebron.   I'm not sure there is anything Lebron can do at this point to reverse that.

I'm guessing that in 25 or 30 years when all of the people that grew up on the altar of Jordan are no longer living, you are going to see a significant shift on the debate as to who is better.  It will be very hard to argue against the sport's all time leading scorer who also happened to retire in the top 4 of assists, top 10 of steals, top 25 (or so) in rebounds, and top 75 (or so) in blocks with all of the Finals appearances, similar MVP's, etc. I don't think it will be a debate at all.  People will just say Lebron is better and won't get push back.

This doesn't track for me - if we figure Be Like Mike came out in 1991, Space Jam came out in 1996, and Jordan's last ring came in 1998, you think all the kids born in the late 80's and early 90's who are dyed in the wool Jordan GOATers are going to die off in 20-30 years?

What's your explanation for a mass extinction event for people in their late 50's and early 60's?

It is more a media thing and those guys are in their 50's (or older now).  They may not be dead but they probably won't be journalists either.  You can look at the talking head shows right now, most of the Jordan is better talking heads are the older ones, while the younger ones are team Lebron (so to speak).  As the older talking heads retire and move on, I think you will see a pretty significant shift.  Just as you did in the 90's when the Wilt/Bill guys started to age out and the new press was all team Jordan (Kareem really got shafted as by the time his career was ending the Jordan hype was in full swing). 

[Redz]

Pharmies or working out/sleeping/eating right. Staying up late to gamble he does not.

In my mind, it's probably all of the above.  Lebron reportedly spends $1 million per year working on his body.  My guess is that a percentage of that might include a few designer "supplements".  Of course, I feel the same way about Tom Brady, which I know is a very taboo topic in Boston.  I just don't think that clean living adds 10 years to somebody's prime, even among the best of the best.

I personally wouldn't be opposed to leagues allowing monitored PED use, particularly for recovery purposes.  They're modern medicine and can be safe and effective if used properly.  But, I do suspect that a lot of athletes' longevity is a result of dabbling with drugs that are legally prohibited.

Probably a side topic but I saw a picture on FB from 1969 of John Wayne cutting his 40th birthday cake.  He was with a bunch of contemporaries.  He and all of his contemporaries looked like they were 60 or 70 by today's standards. 

Elite athletes definitely have access to all sorts of ways of staying young, but in general, we humans just age differently now than we did 20-30-40-50 etc...years ago.

[Moranis]

“[Tonight’s] game was decided by the players. In Boston, the game was decided by the refs.”

He is such a ----.

Still climbing that hill huh.  Unbelievable.

I mean, couldn't the argument be made, that BY MAKING THE CALL the refs would be deciding the game, not the players?

He's a tool.  And people wonder why Jordan is so beloved for the most part while Lebron is a lightning rod. 

This is part of the reason.  Whiny crap like this.

Is Jordan beloved?  Every report I've ever read about him was about how much of a an a hole he was, how most of his teammates despised him, how he basically has no friends from his time in the sport, etc.  The media definitely has created a mystique and legend about Jordan more than any other player, but I don't think beloved is the right word to use with Jordan.  Magic is beloved, Jordan is not.

Yeah, he is.  I guarantee if you polled NBA fans, you'd find much more positive feedback on Jordan than Lebron.  Any off the court stuff has pretty much had a negligible impact on the perception of Jordan by the general public. 

The so called "heir apparents" Kobe & Lebron have been much more polarizing among the general public

I have no doubt fans have a more positive view of Jordan than Lebron, but that doesn't make Jordan beloved.  I just don't think it is the correct word.

Most popular?

Revered?  Adulated?  I think we get the point I was making.

I mean, its really just semantics.  Regardless, Jordan is held is higher regard than Lebron.   I'm not sure there is anything Lebron can do at this point to reverse that.

I'm guessing that in 25 or 30 years when all of the people that grew up on the altar of Jordan are no longer living, you are going to see a significant shift on the debate as to who is better.  It will be very hard to argue against the sport's all time leading scorer who also happened to retire in the top 4 of assists, top 10 of steals, top 25 (or so) in rebounds, and top 75 (or so) in blocks with all of the Finals appearances, similar MVP's, etc. I don't think it will be a debate at all.  People will just say Lebron is better and won't get push back.

I'm sure that's your hope.

Babe Ruth has been dead for nearly 75 years, hasn't played in over 85 years and you'd be hard-pressed to find more than a handful of people still alive who actually saw him play and is still generally regarded as the GOAT in his sport.   
'
So that theory might not necessarily come true.

That is fair, though I think Bonds probably would have been in the discussion but for the steroids as, even without steroids, he probably ends up as 600 HR/400 SB player that had a high OBP, BA, played elite defense, etc.  Maybe that didn't get him to Babe, but I think it would have been a much closer debate.  Steroids ended that though.

[Goldstar88]

Pharmies or working out/sleeping/eating right. Staying up late to gamble he does not.

In my mind, it's probably all of the above.  Lebron reportedly spends $1 million per year working on his body.  My guess is that a percentage of that might include a few designer "supplements".  Of course, I feel the same way about Tom Brady, which I know is a very taboo topic in Boston.  I just don't think that clean living adds 10 years to somebody's prime, even among the best of the best.

I personally wouldn't be opposed to leagues allowing monitored PED use, particularly for recovery purposes.  They're modern medicine and can be safe and effective if used properly.  But, I do suspect that a lot of athletes' longevity is a result of dabbling with drugs that are legally prohibited.

Feel like it’s hard to compare the two. For Brady, he just needed his arm to hold up, like a pitcher. There are plenty of MLB pitchers who have played well into their 40’s. What Lebron is doing at his age in the NBA..from a physical standpoint is a lot more freakish, IMO.

[Roy H.]

“[Tonight’s] game was decided by the players. In Boston, the game was decided by the refs.”

He is such a ----.

Still climbing that hill huh.  Unbelievable.

I mean, couldn't the argument be made, that BY MAKING THE CALL the refs would be deciding the game, not the players?

He's a tool.  And people wonder why Jordan is so beloved for the most part while Lebron is a lightning rod. 

This is part of the reason.  Whiny crap like this.

Is Jordan beloved?  Every report I've ever read about him was about how much of a an a hole he was, how most of his teammates despised him, how he basically has no friends from his time in the sport, etc.  The media definitely has created a mystique and legend about Jordan more than any other player, but I don't think beloved is the right word to use with Jordan.  Magic is beloved, Jordan is not.

Yeah, he is.  I guarantee if you polled NBA fans, you'd find much more positive feedback on Jordan than Lebron.  Any off the court stuff has pretty much had a negligible impact on the perception of Jordan by the general public. 

The so called "heir apparents" Kobe & Lebron have been much more polarizing among the general public

I have no doubt fans have a more positive view of Jordan than Lebron, but that doesn't make Jordan beloved.  I just don't think it is the correct word.

Most popular?

Revered?  Adulated?  I think we get the point I was making.

I mean, its really just semantics.  Regardless, Jordan is held is higher regard than Lebron.   I'm not sure there is anything Lebron can do at this point to reverse that.

I'm guessing that in 25 or 30 years when all of the people that grew up on the altar of Jordan are no longer living, you are going to see a significant shift on the debate as to who is better.  It will be very hard to argue against the sport's all time leading scorer who also happened to retire in the top 4 of assists, top 10 of steals, top 25 (or so) in rebounds, and top 75 (or so) in blocks with all of the Finals appearances, similar MVP's, etc. I don't think it will be a debate at all.  People will just say Lebron is better and won't get push back.

Perhaps, but six rings speak loudly, and Jordan would probably have seven or eight rings if he hadn't taken time away from the game.

Lebron has had the most prolific career in NBA history.  That doesn't make him the GOAT, it just means he's been good longer than anybody else.  And, it's an open question regarding how much of that longer peak has been aided by pharmaceuticals.

Does 11 rings not ring louder (Kareem has 6 rings also, more MVP's, more finals appearances, and better career stats - why is he disregarded as well)?  And people started calling Jordan the greatest ever after he retired in 1993.  Look at the statue outside the United Center.  The ring argument is the only one that can be made at this point because Lebron dwarfs Jordan in statistical achievement.  I don't think that ring argument will hold up as well once the people that grew up in the Jordan era age out of relevancy.  And 50 years from now, whoever is the next great best player in the world will hold more sway than that old guy Lebron their grandpa's talk about.  That is the way it always works.

I think the Bulls were cooked in 93 and Jordan knew it.  Jordan retiring allowed them to remake the entire team.  Jordan and Pippen are the only two players that were on both the 3rd and 4th titles.  I don't think that transition happens if Jordan doesn't retire, and I don't think the Bulls would have beaten the Rockets.  They always struggled with Hakeem's teams.  They had no answer for him.  The Bulls, with Jordan, also couldn't get by Shaq in 95 either.  I just don't buy the narrative if he didn't retire he would have had 8 rings.  I think it is more likely that he had less than 6 rings rather than more than 6 rings if he didn't step away in 93 (and I think he would have lost a finals eliminating the 6-0 narrative).  He was just so intense, he burnt not only himself out, but the entire team.  They were basically toast and needed a whole new group of players and I don't see how that happens with Jordan still there.  Him leaving allowed the team to reset and move on from everyone other than Pippen.

The Bulls weren't "cooked" in 1993.  Without Jordan, then won 55 games in 1994.  Pippen, Grant and Armstrong were all playing at a very high level, and they added Kukoc, Longley and Kerr.  There's no reason that they wouldn't have made those additions without Jordan.

[Moranis]

Pharmies or working out/sleeping/eating right. Staying up late to gamble he does not.

In my mind, it's probably all of the above.  Lebron reportedly spends $1 million per year working on his body.  My guess is that a percentage of that might include a few designer "supplements".  Of course, I feel the same way about Tom Brady, which I know is a very taboo topic in Boston.  I just don't think that clean living adds 10 years to somebody's prime, even among the best of the best.

I personally wouldn't be opposed to leagues allowing monitored PED use, particularly for recovery purposes.  They're modern medicine and can be safe and effective if used properly.  But, I do suspect that a lot of athletes' longevity is a result of dabbling with drugs that are legally prohibited.

except we don't really see players playing longer.  In fact they play less games, less minutes, and generally the same amount of years.  Every generation seems to have a player or a few that are quite simply genetic freaks of nature.  You had Wilt (didn't get the years, but was the greatest physical specimen the league has ever seen), you had Kareem, you had Malone, you had Duncan/Kobe/KG, and you have Lebron.  Those guys just took care of themselves and were professional off the floor as well as on it (when it comes to fitness).  That helps a great deal, but even then you just have to have the right genetics and a certain amount of luck to avoid the devastating injury.   

I have no idea if Lebron is using, but I suspect most players are and have been since the dawn of performance enhancing drugs, but only a handful end up with the longevity and skill necessary to play at a high level for 20 years.

[Moranis]

“[Tonight’s] game was decided by the players. In Boston, the game was decided by the refs.”

He is such a ----.

Still climbing that hill huh.  Unbelievable.

I mean, couldn't the argument be made, that BY MAKING THE CALL the refs would be deciding the game, not the players?

He's a tool.  And people wonder why Jordan is so beloved for the most part while Lebron is a lightning rod. 

This is part of the reason.  Whiny crap like this.

Is Jordan beloved?  Every report I've ever read about him was about how much of a an a hole he was, how most of his teammates despised him, how he basically has no friends from his time in the sport, etc.  The media definitely has created a mystique and legend about Jordan more than any other player, but I don't think beloved is the right word to use with Jordan.  Magic is beloved, Jordan is not.

Yeah, he is.  I guarantee if you polled NBA fans, you'd find much more positive feedback on Jordan than Lebron.  Any off the court stuff has pretty much had a negligible impact on the perception of Jordan by the general public. 

The so called "heir apparents" Kobe & Lebron have been much more polarizing among the general public

I have no doubt fans have a more positive view of Jordan than Lebron, but that doesn't make Jordan beloved.  I just don't think it is the correct word.

Most popular?

Revered?  Adulated?  I think we get the point I was making.

I mean, its really just semantics.  Regardless, Jordan is held is higher regard than Lebron.   I'm not sure there is anything Lebron can do at this point to reverse that.

I'm guessing that in 25 or 30 years when all of the people that grew up on the altar of Jordan are no longer living, you are going to see a significant shift on the debate as to who is better.  It will be very hard to argue against the sport's all time leading scorer who also happened to retire in the top 4 of assists, top 10 of steals, top 25 (or so) in rebounds, and top 75 (or so) in blocks with all of the Finals appearances, similar MVP's, etc. I don't think it will be a debate at all.  People will just say Lebron is better and won't get push back.

Perhaps, but six rings speak loudly, and Jordan would probably have seven or eight rings if he hadn't taken time away from the game.

Lebron has had the most prolific career in NBA history.  That doesn't make him the GOAT, it just means he's been good longer than anybody else.  And, it's an open question regarding how much of that longer peak has been aided by pharmaceuticals.

Does 11 rings not ring louder (Kareem has 6 rings also, more MVP's, more finals appearances, and better career stats - why is he disregarded as well)?  And people started calling Jordan the greatest ever after he retired in 1993.  Look at the statue outside the United Center.  The ring argument is the only one that can be made at this point because Lebron dwarfs Jordan in statistical achievement.  I don't think that ring argument will hold up as well once the people that grew up in the Jordan era age out of relevancy.  And 50 years from now, whoever is the next great best player in the world will hold more sway than that old guy Lebron their grandpa's talk about.  That is the way it always works.

I think the Bulls were cooked in 93 and Jordan knew it.  Jordan retiring allowed them to remake the entire team.  Jordan and Pippen are the only two players that were on both the 3rd and 4th titles.  I don't think that transition happens if Jordan doesn't retire, and I don't think the Bulls would have beaten the Rockets.  They always struggled with Hakeem's teams.  They had no answer for him.  The Bulls, with Jordan, also couldn't get by Shaq in 95 either.  I just don't buy the narrative if he didn't retire he would have had 8 rings.  I think it is more likely that he had less than 6 rings rather than more than 6 rings if he didn't step away in 93 (and I think he would have lost a finals eliminating the 6-0 narrative).  He was just so intense, he burnt not only himself out, but the entire team.  They were basically toast and needed a whole new group of players and I don't see how that happens with Jordan still there.  Him leaving allowed the team to reset and move on from everyone other than Pippen.

The Bulls weren't "cooked" in 1993.  Without Jordan, then won 55 games in 1994.  Pippen, Grant and Armstrong were all playing at a very high level, and they added Kukoc, Longley and Kerr.  There's no reason that they wouldn't have made those additions without Jordan.

Maybe maybe not.  They added Jordan the following year and lost to the Magic in 6 games.  In 92-93, they were smoked by the Rockets both games, in 91-92 they split with the Rockets, and in 90-91 they were smoked by the Rockets both games.  They did not handle Hakeem's teams well at all.  The 4 games in the middles years without Jordan they split with the Rockets.  I don't think it was a given they would have beaten a team that hadn't shown the ability to beat all while suffering from incredible burn out.  Adding Rodman and Harper made a big difference for them in the second 3-peat.  Maybe they would have kept on winning, but acting like it is automatically so, I just don't buy.  The entire team changed in the span 2 seasons and many of those guys were fairly young and kept playing.  They were burnt out.  Playing with Jordan was just exhausting because he was just so intense (there are all sorts of interviews about this) and they were playing a lot of games.  Those long post season runs take a lot of a player.