NFL 2022 Season

[Moranis]

FWIW

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2022/09/29/demaurice-smith-vows-to-pursue-every-legal-option-regarding-the-handling-of-tua-tagovailoa-on-sunday/

The biggest concern emerging from Thursday night’s game between the Dolphins and Bengals is whether Miami quarterback Tua Tagovailoa should have been playing.

As explained by Michael Smith on the Amazon postgame show, NFL Players Association executive director DeMaurice Smith texted to Andrew Whitworth (a former NFLPA player rep) and Richard Sherman (a member of the NFLPA executive committee) the following message: “We insisted on these rules to avoid exactly this scenario. We will pursue every legal option, including making referrals against the doctors to licensing agencies and the team that is obligated to keep our players safe.”

I just wanted to bump this because it seems like some posters think it is only some fans that think this was an issue…

And?

Unless Smith has information fans don't, he's doing the same thing fans are, playing doctor based on a video. Who cares who he sent out messages to.

An independent neurologist determined no concussion and the Miami doctors determined it an upper back and neck injury.

Has anyone here ever had an upper back or neck injury or seen someone that has? I have. They can wreak havoc on the ability to stand and walk, much like Tua showed. They can also cause you to lose your breath, which won't help matters when trying to stand up or walk.

Now, Tua could be lying to all the doctors. But he wouldn't be able to hide some of the symptoms a neurologist would see in trying to determine if someone has a concussion.

So if Tua isn't lying to the medical people, then it comes down to either several doctors not being competent enough to diagnose a concussion, one independent doc and then a whole medical staff of the Dolphins, or all of them breaking their sworn oaths and lying about it so Tua can play.

It's possible Tua was playing with a concussion, but if he was, I'm thinking it's Tua's fault for lying to doctors about what he was suffering from. I really don't see multiple doctors being incompetent and/or dishonest here.

I think the concussion protocol in the nfl clearly needs some work. You seem to be putting quite a bit of blind faith into team doctors when we have a close to a half century of them doing fairly unethical things (overprescribing pain pills and cortisone shots and risking the long term health of players that has had absolutely horrible real life consequences).

The independent neurologist is not a team doctor. What motive does that doctor have to ignore concussion symptoms and okay a player to play?

In just about any profession there is motivation to not rock the boat if something is borderline or in a grey area. Probably a pretty lucrative job and there are very few of them. This seems like fairly reasonable logic.

Malpractice claims are a pretty big disincentive, right?

Especially ones that could have hundreds of milliona of dollars in lost earning potential at play.

[Goldstar88]

NFLPA president JC Tretter delivers impassioned message to NFL over Tua Tagovailoa injury: 'We are all outraged'

We are all outraged by what we have seen the last several days and scared for the safety of one of our brothers. What everyone saw both Sunday and last night were “no-go” symptoms within our concussion protocols. The protocols exist to protect the player and that is why we initiated an investigation.

Our job as the NFLPA is to take every possible measure to get the facts and hold those responsible accountable. We need to figure out how and why the decisions were made last Sunday to allow a player with a “no-go” symptom back on the field.

Until we have an objective and validated method of diagnosing brain injury, we have to do everything possible, including amending the protocols, to further reduce the potential of human error. A failure in medical judgment is a failure of the protocols when it comes to the well being of our players.

We have come a long way over the past 15 years but the last week proves how far we have left to go.

[Neurotic Guy]

NFLPA president JC Tretter delivers impassioned message to NFL over Tua Tagovailoa injury: 'We are all outraged'

We are all outraged by what we have seen the last several days and scared for the safety of one of our brothers. What everyone saw both Sunday and last night were “no-go” symptoms within our concussion protocols. The protocols exist to protect the player and that is why we initiated an investigation.

Our job as the NFLPA is to take every possible measure to get the facts and hold those responsible accountable. We need to figure out how and why the decisions were made last Sunday to allow a player with a “no-go” symptom back on the field.

Until we have an objective and validated method of diagnosing brain injury, we have to do everything possible, including amending the protocols, to further reduce the potential of human error. A failure in medical judgment is a failure of the protocols when it comes to the well being of our players.

We have come a long way over the past 15 years but the last week proves how far we have left to go.

What’s odd to me is that everyone knew that Tua playing after the hit on Sunday was suspect. So why isn’t the NFLPA intervening proactively?

[celticsclay]

So you guys really think that with a hit and after effect so visible that the Dolphins and the independent doctor are going to play fast and loose with the protocols?  I mean that makes zero sense.  I might buy it if it was a lineman that ran off the field without issue, but there is no way the Dolphins are going to skirt protocols when it is their QB, who got up, fell down, and stumbled around a bit.  NFL teams may be run by lying Edited for profanity.  Please do not do it again.s, but they generally aren't morons and to believe they'd skirt the rules that blatantly, you have to believe they are morons.

Oh I hundred percent do. And we have a literally a half a century of evidence of nfl teams skirting best health practices. Really baffled by the amount of benefit of the doubt people are giving the nfl.

[celticsclay]

NFLPA president JC Tretter delivers impassioned message to NFL over Tua Tagovailoa injury: 'We are all outraged'

We are all outraged by what we have seen the last several days and scared for the safety of one of our brothers. What everyone saw both Sunday and last night were “no-go” symptoms within our concussion protocols. The protocols exist to protect the player and that is why we initiated an investigation.

Our job as the NFLPA is to take every possible measure to get the facts and hold those responsible accountable. We need to figure out how and why the decisions were made last Sunday to allow a player with a “no-go” symptom back on the field.

Until we have an objective and validated method of diagnosing brain injury, we have to do everything possible, including amending the protocols, to further reduce the potential of human error. A failure in medical judgment is a failure of the protocols when it comes to the well being of our players.

We have come a long way over the past 15 years but the last week proves how far we have left to go.

What’s odd to me is that everyone knew that Tua playing after the hit on Sunday was suspect. So why isn’t the NFLPA intervening proactively?

They opened their investigation before the second hit last night. So they literally did.

https://dolphinswire.usatoday.com/2022/09/25/nflpa-tua-tagovailoa-injury/

From 5 days ago. It didn’t look right at the time and now it looks downright ridiculous. There will be changes in the protocols over this for sure. Not really getting a lot of peoples takes on this.

[celticsclay]

FWIW

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2022/09/29/demaurice-smith-vows-to-pursue-every-legal-option-regarding-the-handling-of-tua-tagovailoa-on-sunday/

The biggest concern emerging from Thursday night’s game between the Dolphins and Bengals is whether Miami quarterback Tua Tagovailoa should have been playing.

As explained by Michael Smith on the Amazon postgame show, NFL Players Association executive director DeMaurice Smith texted to Andrew Whitworth (a former NFLPA player rep) and Richard Sherman (a member of the NFLPA executive committee) the following message: “We insisted on these rules to avoid exactly this scenario. We will pursue every legal option, including making referrals against the doctors to licensing agencies and the team that is obligated to keep our players safe.”

I just wanted to bump this because it seems like some posters think it is only some fans that think this was an issue…

And?

Unless Smith has information fans don't, he's doing the same thing fans are, playing doctor based on a video. Who cares who he sent out messages to.

An independent neurologist determined no concussion and the Miami doctors determined it an upper back and neck injury.

Has anyone here ever had an upper back or neck injury or seen someone that has? I have. They can wreak havoc on the ability to stand and walk, much like Tua showed. They can also cause you to lose your breath, which won't help matters when trying to stand up or walk.

Now, Tua could be lying to all the doctors. But he wouldn't be able to hide some of the symptoms a neurologist would see in trying to determine if someone has a concussion.

So if Tua isn't lying to the medical people, then it comes down to either several doctors not being competent enough to diagnose a concussion, one independent doc and then a whole medical staff of the Dolphins, or all of them breaking their sworn oaths and lying about it so Tua can play.

It's possible Tua was playing with a concussion, but if he was, I'm thinking it's Tua's fault for lying to doctors about what he was suffering from. I really don't see multiple doctors being incompetent and/or dishonest here.

I think the concussion protocol in the nfl clearly needs some work. You seem to be putting quite a bit of blind faith into team doctors when we have a close to a half century of them doing fairly unethical things (overprescribing pain pills and cortisone shots and risking the long term health of players that has had absolutely horrible real life consequences).

The independent neurologist is not a team doctor. What motive does that doctor have to ignore concussion symptoms and okay a player to play?

In just about any profession there is motivation to not rock the boat if something is borderline or in a grey area. Probably a pretty lucrative job and there are very few of them. This seems like fairly reasonable logic.

Malpractice claims are a pretty big disincentive, right?

Especially ones that could have hundreds of milliona of dollars in lost earning potential at play.

Ravens coach couldn’t believe what he saw on Sunday. (And also last night, but Thursday is more relevant for the “but independent doctor crowd”

https://sports.yahoo.com/ravens-head-coach-john-harbaugh-couldnt-believe-the-tua-tagovailoa-injury-he-watched-185520288.html

He was very careful with his wording to avoid fines, but clearly didn’t think Sunday was handled well. Ravens guy must be a real idiot.

[Neurotic Guy]

NFLPA president JC Tretter delivers impassioned message to NFL over Tua Tagovailoa injury: 'We are all outraged'

We are all outraged by what we have seen the last several days and scared for the safety of one of our brothers. What everyone saw both Sunday and last night were “no-go” symptoms within our concussion protocols. The protocols exist to protect the player and that is why we initiated an investigation.

Our job as the NFLPA is to take every possible measure to get the facts and hold those responsible accountable. We need to figure out how and why the decisions were made last Sunday to allow a player with a “no-go” symptom back on the field.

Until we have an objective and validated method of diagnosing brain injury, we have to do everything possible, including amending the protocols, to further reduce the potential of human error. A failure in medical judgment is a failure of the protocols when it comes to the well being of our players.

We have come a long way over the past 15 years but the last week proves how far we have left to go.

What’s odd to me is that everyone knew that Tua playing after the hit on Sunday was suspect. So why isn’t the NFLPA intervening proactively?

They opened their investigation before the second hit last night. So they literally did.

I guess by intervening proactively I mean doing something that would prevent Tua from taking the field.   If there is every indication that the Sunday hit had “no go” symptoms, what influence could the player’s association have on whether or not he could play?

[celticsclay]

NFLPA president JC Tretter delivers impassioned message to NFL over Tua Tagovailoa injury: 'We are all outraged'

We are all outraged by what we have seen the last several days and scared for the safety of one of our brothers. What everyone saw both Sunday and last night were “no-go” symptoms within our concussion protocols. The protocols exist to protect the player and that is why we initiated an investigation.

Our job as the NFLPA is to take every possible measure to get the facts and hold those responsible accountable. We need to figure out how and why the decisions were made last Sunday to allow a player with a “no-go” symptom back on the field.

Until we have an objective and validated method of diagnosing brain injury, we have to do everything possible, including amending the protocols, to further reduce the potential of human error. A failure in medical judgment is a failure of the protocols when it comes to the well being of our players.

We have come a long way over the past 15 years but the last week proves how far we have left to go.

What’s odd to me is that everyone knew that Tua playing after the hit on Sunday was suspect. So why isn’t the NFLPA intervening proactively?

They opened their investigation before the second hit last night. So they literally did.

I guess by intervening proactively I mean doing something that would prevent Tua from taking the field.   If there is every indication that the Sunday hit had “no go” symptoms, what influence could the player’s association have on whether or not he could play?

I think the investigation was the extent of their powers. They can’t force a player to sit from what I understand. So this was the most proactive action they could take. It’s possible this is inaccurate but I would be genuinely surprised.

[Roy H.]

NFLPA president JC Tretter delivers impassioned message to NFL over Tua Tagovailoa injury: 'We are all outraged'

We are all outraged by what we have seen the last several days and scared for the safety of one of our brothers. What everyone saw both Sunday and last night were “no-go” symptoms within our concussion protocols. The protocols exist to protect the player and that is why we initiated an investigation.

Our job as the NFLPA is to take every possible measure to get the facts and hold those responsible accountable. We need to figure out how and why the decisions were made last Sunday to allow a player with a “no-go” symptom back on the field.

Until we have an objective and validated method of diagnosing brain injury, we have to do everything possible, including amending the protocols, to further reduce the potential of human error. A failure in medical judgment is a failure of the protocols when it comes to the well being of our players.

We have come a long way over the past 15 years but the last week proves how far we have left to go.

What’s odd to me is that everyone knew that Tua playing after the hit on Sunday was suspect. So why isn’t the NFLPA intervening proactively?

They opened their investigation before the second hit last night. So they literally did.

I guess by intervening proactively I mean doing something that would prevent Tua from taking the field.   If there is every indication that the Sunday hit had “no go” symptoms, what influence could the player’s association have on whether or not he could play?

I think the investigation was the extent of their powers. They can’t force a player to sit from what I understand. So this was the most proactive action they could take. It’s possible this is inaccurate but I would be genuinely surprised.

They could have contacted him or his agent, providing their own doctor on Monday.

Or, Tua or his agent could have consulted a doctor.

Nobody did anything, presumably because he wasn’t showing any signs of being concussed.

[Moranis]

NFLPA president JC Tretter delivers impassioned message to NFL over Tua Tagovailoa injury: 'We are all outraged'

We are all outraged by what we have seen the last several days and scared for the safety of one of our brothers. What everyone saw both Sunday and last night were “no-go” symptoms within our concussion protocols. The protocols exist to protect the player and that is why we initiated an investigation.

Our job as the NFLPA is to take every possible measure to get the facts and hold those responsible accountable. We need to figure out how and why the decisions were made last Sunday to allow a player with a “no-go” symptom back on the field.

Until we have an objective and validated method of diagnosing brain injury, we have to do everything possible, including amending the protocols, to further reduce the potential of human error. A failure in medical judgment is a failure of the protocols when it comes to the well being of our players.

We have come a long way over the past 15 years but the last week proves how far we have left to go.

What’s odd to me is that everyone knew that Tua playing after the hit on Sunday was suspect. So why isn’t the NFLPA intervening proactively?

They opened their investigation before the second hit last night. So they literally did.

I guess by intervening proactively I mean doing something that would prevent Tua from taking the field.   If there is every indication that the Sunday hit had “no go” symptoms, what influence could the player’s association have on whether or not he could play?

I think the investigation was the extent of their powers. They can’t force a player to sit from what I understand. So this was the most proactive action they could take. It’s possible this is inaccurate but I would be genuinely surprised.

They could have contacted him or his agent, providing their own doctor on Monday.

Or, Tua or his agent could have consulted a doctor.

Nobody did anything, presumably because he wasn’t showing any signs of being concussed.

he was tested at halftime Sunday by both the team and the independent doctor. No concussion symptoms.  He was tested Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday. No concussion symptoms.  There really is nothing else they could do except not play him and if he showed no symptoms, why wouldn't they play him?  They had a game to win and a star QB they had no reason not to play.

And as I said earlier, that hit yesterday was nasty.  It would have concussed almost any QB.

[sgrogan]

I can't imagine the players union working to remove a player that wanted to play.
I'm sure they would investigate proto-calls.
But only after the fact would they assert that the league should protect the player from themself.

[celticsclay]

I can't imagine the players union working to remove a player that wanted to play.
I'm sure they would investigate proto-calls.
But only after the fact would they assert that the league should protect the player from themself.

We will just have to what the investigation turns up or if there are changes to protocols. At this point it probably just comes down to whether you trust nfl doctors or their “independent” doctors. I don’t and think there if a lot of evidence why we shouldn’t from history. But doesn’t seem like I will change anyones opinion on this.

[sgrogan]

I can't imagine the players union working to remove a player that wanted to play.
I'm sure they would investigate proto-calls.
But only after the fact would they assert that the league should protect the player from themself.

We will just have to what the investigation turns up or if there are changes to protocols. At this point it probably just comes down to whether you trust nfl doctors or their “independent” doctors. I don’t and think there if a lot of evidence why we shouldn’t from history. But doesn’t seem like I will change anyones opinion on this.

I think you are correct.
I just think there is too much incentive for the player to play.

[Roy H.]

I can't imagine the players union working to remove a player that wanted to play.
I'm sure they would investigate proto-calls.
But only after the fact would they assert that the league should protect the player from themself.

We will just have to what the investigation turns up or if there are changes to protocols. At this point it probably just comes down to whether you trust nfl doctors or their “independent” doctors. I don’t and think there if a lot of evidence why we shouldn’t from history. But doesn’t seem like I will change anyones opinion on this.

I think you are correct.
I just think there is too much incentive for the player to play.

Really?  I see it the opposite in the current era.

If you sit your QB for a game, you may lose.

If you play your QB when he’s got concussion symptoms, you still may lose.  You also could further injure your $100+ million asset, subject yourself to many more millions in liability, get your coaching staff fired, and lose draft picks.

[nickagneta]

I can't imagine the players union working to remove a player that wanted to play.
I'm sure they would investigate proto-calls.
But only after the fact would they assert that the league should protect the player from themself.

We will just have to what the investigation turns up or if there are changes to protocols. At this point it probably just comes down to whether you trust nfl doctors or their “independent” doctors. I don’t and think there if a lot of evidence why we shouldn’t from history. But doesn’t seem like I will change anyones opinion on this.

I think you are correct.
I just think there is too much incentive for the player to play.

Really?  I see it the opposite in the current era.

If you sit your QB for a game, you may lose.

If you play your QB when he’s got concussion symptoms, you still may lose.  You also could further injure your $100+ million asset, subject yourself to many more millions in liability, get your coaching staff fired, and lose draft picks.

I agree.

And yes, @clay, the history of doctors doing some questionable and ethically bad stuff to get NFL players playing is bad. But it's just that....history. It's why the concussion protocols are in place with independent doctors doing the screenings. It's why there is drug testing. It's why injuries are handled so differently.

The modern game, with gigantic money involved and the NFL league office and owners knowing steroids, painkillers and CTE were terrible historic issues for them that could seriously hurt their PR in modern society with the advent of instant news and social media, isn't about to let an independent neurologist purposely allow a player to skirt the concussion protocols and let the history be revisited.