Author Topic: Lebron extends with LAL  (Read 4469 times)

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Re: Lebron extends with LAL
« Reply #30 on: August 18, 2022, 07:50:09 PM »

Offline hwangjini_1

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More money then I thought, but that is exactly what I was predicting he would do.  This will now open the door to trading both 27 and 29 to improve the team.  The Lakers were hesitant to do so until Lebron committed.  Now I expect to see a Kyrie for Russ swap come to pass with at least 1 if not both of the picks going to the Nets and probably Harris and/or Curry also going to the Lakers.

Edit: Looks like if the cap increases enough in 23-24 it could end up worth as much as 111 million over the two years.
as much of a headache as Kyrie has been for the Nets really hate that deal for them -- especially if there's anything other than Irving going to the Lakers.  Would really want to see LA stay a dumpster fire and Durant become even more irritated with Irving missing a lot of games and Simmons lack of commitment to playing or improving his game.

Unless  there's another market for Harris, I think that Kyrie + Harris for Westbrook + two #1s is a good deal for both teams.  Those Lakers picks could be pretty good, and Kyrie is gone next season regardless.  Meanwhile, the Lakers would look very good on paper:

Bryant
Davis
Lebron
Harris
Irving

The rest of that roster is a giant dumpster dive, though.
I wouldn't expect those first rounders to be out of the 20's and I for one would not want Westbrook on the team.  He does not win plain and simple.  he'd be on the court more than Kyrie but that's small consolation.  why add yet another shooting-challenged guard to a backcourt with Simmons?

just don't see the appeal of Westbrook no matter what Kyrie has done.

The first rounders are in five and seven years.  I wouldn’t expect them to be in the 20s.  And Westbrook would be released.
they're the Lakers.  they have no problem attracting FAs.  they may have a season or two where they have a bad record but not several and even less likely during years when they won't be able to take advantage of a bad season with making use of their own pick
perhaps, but from 2013 to 2019 they had losing records and did not make the playoffs. six is most certainly "several." it may not be as easy and simple for them to attract free agents as some may believe.
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Re: Lebron extends with LAL
« Reply #31 on: August 18, 2022, 08:33:06 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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More money then I thought, but that is exactly what I was predicting he would do.  This will now open the door to trading both 27 and 29 to improve the team.  The Lakers were hesitant to do so until Lebron committed.  Now I expect to see a Kyrie for Russ swap come to pass with at least 1 if not both of the picks going to the Nets and probably Harris and/or Curry also going to the Lakers.

Edit: Looks like if the cap increases enough in 23-24 it could end up worth as much as 111 million over the two years.
as much of a headache as Kyrie has been for the Nets really hate that deal for them -- especially if there's anything other than Irving going to the Lakers.  Would really want to see LA stay a dumpster fire and Durant become even more irritated with Irving missing a lot of games and Simmons lack of commitment to playing or improving his game.

Unless  there's another market for Harris, I think that Kyrie + Harris for Westbrook + two #1s is a good deal for both teams.  Those Lakers picks could be pretty good, and Kyrie is gone next season regardless.  Meanwhile, the Lakers would look very good on paper:

Bryant
Davis
Lebron
Harris
Irving

The rest of that roster is a giant dumpster dive, though.
I wouldn't expect those first rounders to be out of the 20's and I for one would not want Westbrook on the team.  He does not win plain and simple.  he'd be on the court more than Kyrie but that's small consolation.  why add yet another shooting-challenged guard to a backcourt with Simmons?

just don't see the appeal of Westbrook no matter what Kyrie has done.

The first rounders are in five and seven years.  I wouldn’t expect them to be in the 20s.  And Westbrook would be released.
they're the Lakers.  they have no problem attracting FAs.  they may have a season or two where they have a bad record but not several and even less likely during years when they won't be able to take advantage of a bad season with making use of their own pick
perhaps, but from 2013 to 2019 they had losing records and did not make the playoffs. six is most certainly "several." it may not be as easy and simple for them to attract free agents as some may believe.
Let's not forget Kobe was there until 2016 making $25-30 million a year when the salary cap number was $68, $70 and $94 million in consecutive years. Kinda hard to sign free agents when you have no ability to do so because you're hanging onto Kobe at a massive premium in his worst years.

Re: Lebron extends with LAL
« Reply #32 on: August 18, 2022, 09:57:29 PM »

Offline Moranis

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More money then I thought, but that is exactly what I was predicting he would do.  This will now open the door to trading both 27 and 29 to improve the team.  The Lakers were hesitant to do so until Lebron committed.  Now I expect to see a Kyrie for Russ swap come to pass with at least 1 if not both of the picks going to the Nets and probably Harris and/or Curry also going to the Lakers.

Edit: Looks like if the cap increases enough in 23-24 it could end up worth as much as 111 million over the two years.
as much of a headache as Kyrie has been for the Nets really hate that deal for them -- especially if there's anything other than Irving going to the Lakers.  Would really want to see LA stay a dumpster fire and Durant become even more irritated with Irving missing a lot of games and Simmons lack of commitment to playing or improving his game.

Unless  there's another market for Harris, I think that Kyrie + Harris for Westbrook + two #1s is a good deal for both teams.  Those Lakers picks could be pretty good, and Kyrie is gone next season regardless.  Meanwhile, the Lakers would look very good on paper:

Bryant
Davis
Lebron
Harris
Irving

The rest of that roster is a giant dumpster dive, though.
I wouldn't expect those first rounders to be out of the 20's and I for one would not want Westbrook on the team.  He does not win plain and simple.  he'd be on the court more than Kyrie but that's small consolation.  why add yet another shooting-challenged guard to a backcourt with Simmons?

just don't see the appeal of Westbrook no matter what Kyrie has done.

The first rounders are in five and seven years.  I wouldn’t expect them to be in the 20s.  And Westbrook would be released.
they're the Lakers.  they have no problem attracting FAs.  they may have a season or two where they have a bad record but not several and even less likely during years when they won't be able to take advantage of a bad season with making use of their own pick
perhaps, but from 2013 to 2019 they had losing records and did not make the playoffs. six is most certainly "several." it may not be as easy and simple for them to attract free agents as some may believe.
Let's not forget Kobe was there until 2016 making $25-30 million a year when the salary cap number was $68, $70 and $94 million in consecutive years. Kinda hard to sign free agents when you have no ability to do so because you're hanging onto Kobe at a massive premium in his worst years.
They signed free agents then and let other very good players go.  I mean they let Pau walk right out the door in the summer of 14 only to have him put up better numbers in Chicago for a couple of years (before age caught up). 

During one summer, they traded for Roy Hibbert, signed Lou Williams (to basically the contract the Bulls gave Pau).

Kobe retired and they replaced him with Mozgov, Deng, and Clarkson (all 3 terrible contracts).  That was the summer of 17 and they didn't make the playoffs again until 20 when they won the title.  They were rumored for several free agents that spurned them as well. 

LA is a place the NBA guys want to be, but the Lakers have not been well run since they ran Jerry West out of there.  There is absolutely no guarantee that any Laker pick is going to be good any time soon, but similarly they could all be bad as well.  I mean NY is a place NBA players want to live, yet the Knicks have been terrible for 40 years because they haven't been well run.  The Lakers have not been well run in a decade at this point.  That does catch up to teams.
I was finally wrong. Boston not only didn't win in 5, but didn't win at all.

Re: Lebron extends with LAL
« Reply #33 on: August 18, 2022, 11:10:39 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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More money then I thought, but that is exactly what I was predicting he would do.  This will now open the door to trading both 27 and 29 to improve the team.  The Lakers were hesitant to do so until Lebron committed.  Now I expect to see a Kyrie for Russ swap come to pass with at least 1 if not both of the picks going to the Nets and probably Harris and/or Curry also going to the Lakers.

Edit: Looks like if the cap increases enough in 23-24 it could end up worth as much as 111 million over the two years.
as much of a headache as Kyrie has been for the Nets really hate that deal for them -- especially if there's anything other than Irving going to the Lakers.  Would really want to see LA stay a dumpster fire and Durant become even more irritated with Irving missing a lot of games and Simmons lack of commitment to playing or improving his game.

Unless  there's another market for Harris, I think that Kyrie + Harris for Westbrook + two #1s is a good deal for both teams.  Those Lakers picks could be pretty good, and Kyrie is gone next season regardless.  Meanwhile, the Lakers would look very good on paper:

Bryant
Davis
Lebron
Harris
Irving

The rest of that roster is a giant dumpster dive, though.
I wouldn't expect those first rounders to be out of the 20's and I for one would not want Westbrook on the team.  He does not win plain and simple.  he'd be on the court more than Kyrie but that's small consolation.  why add yet another shooting-challenged guard to a backcourt with Simmons?

just don't see the appeal of Westbrook no matter what Kyrie has done.

The first rounders are in five and seven years.  I wouldn’t expect them to be in the 20s.  And Westbrook would be released.
they're the Lakers.  they have no problem attracting FAs.  they may have a season or two where they have a bad record but not several and even less likely during years when they won't be able to take advantage of a bad season with making use of their own pick
perhaps, but from 2013 to 2019 they had losing records and did not make the playoffs. six is most certainly "several." it may not be as easy and simple for them to attract free agents as some may believe.
Let's not forget Kobe was there until 2016 making $25-30 million a year when the salary cap number was $68, $70 and $94 million in consecutive years. Kinda hard to sign free agents when you have no ability to do so because you're hanging onto Kobe at a massive premium in his worst years.
They signed free agents then and let other very good players go.  I mean they let Pau walk right out the door in the summer of 14 only to have him put up better numbers in Chicago for a couple of years (before age caught up). 

During one summer, they traded for Roy Hibbert, signed Lou Williams (to basically the contract the Bulls gave Pau).

Kobe retired and they replaced him with Mozgov, Deng, and Clarkson (all 3 terrible contracts).  That was the summer of 17 and they didn't make the playoffs again until 20 when they won the title.  They were rumored for several free agents that spurned them as well. 

LA is a place the NBA guys want to be, but the Lakers have not been well run since they ran Jerry West out of there.  There is absolutely no guarantee that any Laker pick is going to be good any time soon, but similarly they could all be bad as well.  I mean NY is a place NBA players want to live, yet the Knicks have been terrible for 40 years because they haven't been well run.  The Lakers have not been well run in a decade at this point.  That does catch up to teams.

A lot of this losing stuff was under or caused by Jim buss though right? Under Jeanie they have signed and extended Lebron, had AD really want to go there. Had demar really want to go there. Players seem to respect her to a degree compared to the days of signing mosgov and deng for 150 million (which is probably like 220 in todays terms). The Knicks are a different animal because I think before Dolan stepped backed a bit he was considered a real piece of crap owner and perhaps even racist. Players really noticed something like the Oakley incident. Since he seems to no longer be involved they got a highly coveted free agent in Brunson and it seems like Mitchell really wants to play for them. I predict they do better also unless Dolan starts meddling.

Re: Lebron extends with LAL
« Reply #34 on: August 19, 2022, 08:55:37 AM »

Offline Moranis

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More money then I thought, but that is exactly what I was predicting he would do.  This will now open the door to trading both 27 and 29 to improve the team.  The Lakers were hesitant to do so until Lebron committed.  Now I expect to see a Kyrie for Russ swap come to pass with at least 1 if not both of the picks going to the Nets and probably Harris and/or Curry also going to the Lakers.

Edit: Looks like if the cap increases enough in 23-24 it could end up worth as much as 111 million over the two years.
as much of a headache as Kyrie has been for the Nets really hate that deal for them -- especially if there's anything other than Irving going to the Lakers.  Would really want to see LA stay a dumpster fire and Durant become even more irritated with Irving missing a lot of games and Simmons lack of commitment to playing or improving his game.

Unless  there's another market for Harris, I think that Kyrie + Harris for Westbrook + two #1s is a good deal for both teams.  Those Lakers picks could be pretty good, and Kyrie is gone next season regardless.  Meanwhile, the Lakers would look very good on paper:

Bryant
Davis
Lebron
Harris
Irving

The rest of that roster is a giant dumpster dive, though.
I wouldn't expect those first rounders to be out of the 20's and I for one would not want Westbrook on the team.  He does not win plain and simple.  he'd be on the court more than Kyrie but that's small consolation.  why add yet another shooting-challenged guard to a backcourt with Simmons?

just don't see the appeal of Westbrook no matter what Kyrie has done.

The first rounders are in five and seven years.  I wouldn’t expect them to be in the 20s.  And Westbrook would be released.
they're the Lakers.  they have no problem attracting FAs.  they may have a season or two where they have a bad record but not several and even less likely during years when they won't be able to take advantage of a bad season with making use of their own pick
perhaps, but from 2013 to 2019 they had losing records and did not make the playoffs. six is most certainly "several." it may not be as easy and simple for them to attract free agents as some may believe.
Let's not forget Kobe was there until 2016 making $25-30 million a year when the salary cap number was $68, $70 and $94 million in consecutive years. Kinda hard to sign free agents when you have no ability to do so because you're hanging onto Kobe at a massive premium in his worst years.
They signed free agents then and let other very good players go.  I mean they let Pau walk right out the door in the summer of 14 only to have him put up better numbers in Chicago for a couple of years (before age caught up). 

During one summer, they traded for Roy Hibbert, signed Lou Williams (to basically the contract the Bulls gave Pau).

Kobe retired and they replaced him with Mozgov, Deng, and Clarkson (all 3 terrible contracts).  That was the summer of 17 and they didn't make the playoffs again until 20 when they won the title.  They were rumored for several free agents that spurned them as well. 

LA is a place the NBA guys want to be, but the Lakers have not been well run since they ran Jerry West out of there.  There is absolutely no guarantee that any Laker pick is going to be good any time soon, but similarly they could all be bad as well.  I mean NY is a place NBA players want to live, yet the Knicks have been terrible for 40 years because they haven't been well run.  The Lakers have not been well run in a decade at this point.  That does catch up to teams.

A lot of this losing stuff was under or caused by Jim buss though right? Under Jeanie they have signed and extended Lebron, had AD really want to go there. Had demar really want to go there. Players seem to respect her to a degree compared to the days of signing mosgov and deng for 150 million (which is probably like 220 in todays terms). The Knicks are a different animal because I think before Dolan stepped backed a bit he was considered a real piece of crap owner and perhaps even racist. Players really noticed something like the Oakley incident. Since he seems to no longer be involved they got a highly coveted free agent in Brunson and it seems like Mitchell really wants to play for them. I predict they do better also unless Dolan starts meddling.
And yet Demar isn't there because they wouldn't guarantee the 3rd year.  They let useful players like Schroder, Caruso, etc. walk last summer because they got cheap.  They added all sorts of over the hill not great fits last summer.  The Lakers are not a well run franchise.  Lebron wanted to be there but I think you or I could have been running the team and Lebron would have still wanted to be there because he wanted to be in LA.  I believe you were saying that Lebron going there meant he didn't want to win any more titles when he signed, and I suspect you felt that way in large part because they were horribly run. 

The only thing over the past decade they've really done well is draft.  They mostly made the correct decision when a pick could go either way and they found some quality players late like Nance, Kuzma, Zubac, and Caruso (undrafted) - who have all far exceeded their expected draft slot value (obviously Ball over Tatum is the high profile one that stands out, but Ball has still had a solid career and I think very few teams would have taken Tatum over Ball - I'm not even sure Ainge would have done that if given the option).  The Lakers have drafted well and lucked into Lebron, but have otherwise been pretty terribly run since West was forced out.  And I don't think that is going to change any time soon because they are a dysfunctional mess in the front office.  They do however have what should be 2 of the best players in the world on their team right now.  I could honestly see them missing the playoffs or making a long playoff run if it works out optimally.  I'd project them as a play-in team right now, but if they can move Westbrook for Turner and Hield, I think that would elevate them into the playoffs (and out of the play-in). 
I was finally wrong. Boston not only didn't win in 5, but didn't win at all.

Re: Lebron extends with LAL
« Reply #35 on: August 19, 2022, 09:34:17 AM »

Offline Who

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I am not sure I have ever seen a team with two top 10 players (LeBron, AD) with such a pathetic roster around them.

It amazes me that LeBron would hand-over his future, his remaining elite NBA years, to a team this dysfunctional / badly run.

Re: Lebron extends with LAL
« Reply #36 on: August 19, 2022, 10:01:27 AM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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I am not sure I have ever seen a team with two top 10 players (LeBron, AD) with such a pathetic roster around them.

It amazes me that LeBron would hand-over his future, his remaining elite NBA years, to a team this dysfunctional / badly run.

It’s what they the Lakers  do,  cater to the best ….cradle to grave …star.playersthere are allowed more power than anywhere else ,  Nets tried but failed . .  He really has no where else to go , he hasn’t really listened to a coach since he was with Heat .  He can’t go somewhere and not be the center of attention always.  They buy teams best stars .

I wish I could keep my job and pick and choose my immediate bosses.

Re: Lebron extends with LAL
« Reply #37 on: August 19, 2022, 10:13:27 AM »

Offline Moranis

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I am not sure I have ever seen a team with two top 10 players (LeBron, AD) with such a pathetic roster around them.

It amazes me that LeBron would hand-over his future, his remaining elite NBA years, to a team this dysfunctional / badly run.

It’s what they the Lakers  do,  cater to the best ….cradle to grave …star.playersthere are allowed more power than anywhere else ,  Nets tried but failed . .  He really has no where else to go , he hasn’t really listened to a coach since he was with Heat .  He can’t go somewhere and not be the center of attention always.  They buy teams best stars .

I wish I could keep my job and pick and choose my immediate bosses.
Lebron liked and listened to Lue.  Really is a symptom of the problems in LA's front office that Lue isn't their coach. 
I was finally wrong. Boston not only didn't win in 5, but didn't win at all.

Re: Lebron extends with LAL
« Reply #38 on: August 19, 2022, 10:17:39 AM »

Online Roy H.

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I am not sure I have ever seen a team with two top 10 players (LeBron, AD) with such a pathetic roster around them.

It amazes me that LeBron would hand-over his future, his remaining elite NBA years, to a team this dysfunctional / badly run.

Yeah, this is why I'm not assuming that those 2027 and 2029 draft picks will be late firsts.  The team really has been run incompetently.  The argument that things have been run well during the Jeanie Buss years doesn't make sense to me.  They took a team that won a title, and have followed that up with about the two worst off-seasons possible.  And people forget, but they dodged a bullet when Dennis Schroder turned down an $80+ million contract that the team offered.


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Re: Lebron extends with LAL
« Reply #39 on: August 19, 2022, 11:51:05 AM »

Offline Vermont Green

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I am not sure I have ever seen a team with two top 10 players (LeBron, AD) with such a pathetic roster around them.

It amazes me that LeBron would hand-over his future, his remaining elite NBA years, to a team this dysfunctional / badly run.

Yeah, this is why I'm not assuming that those 2027 and 2029 draft picks will be late firsts.  The team really has been run incompetently.  The argument that things have been run well during the Jeanie Buss years doesn't make sense to me.  They took a team that won a title, and have followed that up with about the two worst off-seasons possible.  And people forget, but they dodged a bullet when Dennis Schroder turned down an $80+ million contract that the team offered.

The Lakers won a title in 2019-20 with James and Davis and not much else.  The big difference was that they played 67 nd 62 games respectively.  The problems since then are more about the durability of James and Davis than it is about the talent around them or the coach (although all are factors of course).

If they can keep James and Davis on the court (something that probably isn't going to happen), even with Westbrook and whatever as the supporting cast, I think they are going to be better than a lot of people expect.  I don't see them winning a title again as there are several tough teams in the West now but I think they can be good.  LAL made a big bet on James staying healthy so we shall see.

Re: Lebron extends with LAL
« Reply #40 on: August 19, 2022, 12:01:54 PM »

Offline Moranis

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I am not sure I have ever seen a team with two top 10 players (LeBron, AD) with such a pathetic roster around them.

It amazes me that LeBron would hand-over his future, his remaining elite NBA years, to a team this dysfunctional / badly run.
Rockets in 95 were pretty weak.  Not sure Drexler was still a top 10 player still, but he was 3rd Team All League splitting his time between Portland and Houston.  Honestly the 1st Bulls 3-Peat really only had Horace Grant, an ancient Cartwright and a whole bunch of role players (of course MJ was the best player in the world and Pippen may have been top 5 so a whole other level).  Speaking of Grant, he was the Magic's 3rd best player with Shaq/Penney and that team was awful as well.  The Shaq/Kobe Lakers were pretty weak overall as well at least a season or two in their run.  Westbrook just really changed how the team was put together, but I don't think it is all that crazy for a team with two of the best players in the world to have a bunch of garbage surrounding them because of the salary cap, how they acquire the players, etc. 
I was finally wrong. Boston not only didn't win in 5, but didn't win at all.

Re: Lebron extends with LAL
« Reply #41 on: August 19, 2022, 12:47:07 PM »

Online Roy H.

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I am not sure I have ever seen a team with two top 10 players (LeBron, AD) with such a pathetic roster around them.

It amazes me that LeBron would hand-over his future, his remaining elite NBA years, to a team this dysfunctional / badly run.

Yeah, this is why I'm not assuming that those 2027 and 2029 draft picks will be late firsts.  The team really has been run incompetently.  The argument that things have been run well during the Jeanie Buss years doesn't make sense to me.  They took a team that won a title, and have followed that up with about the two worst off-seasons possible.  And people forget, but they dodged a bullet when Dennis Schroder turned down an $80+ million contract that the team offered.

The Lakers won a title in 2019-20 with James and Davis and not much else.  The big difference was that they played 67 nd 62 games respectively.  The problems since then are more about the durability of James and Davis than it is about the talent around them or the coach (although all are factors of course).

If they can keep James and Davis on the court (something that probably isn't going to happen), even with Westbrook and whatever as the supporting cast, I think they are going to be better than a lot of people expect.  I don't see them winning a title again as there are several tough teams in the West now but I think they can be good.  LAL made a big bet on James staying healthy so we shall see.

I agree that any team with two top-10 players is formidable, no matter how crappy the rest of the roster is.

But, that's different than suggesting that current management is competent.  They've been about as poor as possible in terms of surrounding Lebron and Davis with talent.

In 2020, their supporting cast was:  KCP, Kuzma, Bradley, Green, Howard, Rondo, McGee, THT, Caruso and Morris

In 2021, it was Schroder, Harrell, Kuzma, Drummond, KCP, THT, Caruso, Gasol, Matthews, McLemore, Morris

That's arguably an upgrade in talent, although chemistry and health were problems.

In 2022, they had:  Westbrook, Monk, Carmelo, Reaves, Ellington, Bazemore, D12, THT, Nunn and later Jordan, Augustin

That was an abject failure, showing no sense of appreciation for depth, chemistry or fit.

This year, they're rolling out: Westbrook, THT, Nunn, Bryant, Reaves and a whole bunch of mediocre-to-bad players.

It's just an absolutely garbage roster outside of Lebron and AD.  I'm not sure how anybody can look at the past two off-seasons and feel confident about Lakers management.  And that's without getting into the what ifs regarding Derozan wanting to be there and them passing on him; choosing Westbrook over Hield; management offering Schroder $80 million, etc.



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Re: Lebron extends with LAL
« Reply #42 on: August 19, 2022, 01:09:39 PM »

Offline Moranis

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I am not sure I have ever seen a team with two top 10 players (LeBron, AD) with such a pathetic roster around them.

It amazes me that LeBron would hand-over his future, his remaining elite NBA years, to a team this dysfunctional / badly run.

Yeah, this is why I'm not assuming that those 2027 and 2029 draft picks will be late firsts.  The team really has been run incompetently.  The argument that things have been run well during the Jeanie Buss years doesn't make sense to me.  They took a team that won a title, and have followed that up with about the two worst off-seasons possible.  And people forget, but they dodged a bullet when Dennis Schroder turned down an $80+ million contract that the team offered.

The Lakers won a title in 2019-20 with James and Davis and not much else.  The big difference was that they played 67 nd 62 games respectively.  The problems since then are more about the durability of James and Davis than it is about the talent around them or the coach (although all are factors of course).

If they can keep James and Davis on the court (something that probably isn't going to happen), even with Westbrook and whatever as the supporting cast, I think they are going to be better than a lot of people expect.  I don't see them winning a title again as there are several tough teams in the West now but I think they can be good.  LAL made a big bet on James staying healthy so we shall see.

I agree that any team with two top-10 players is formidable, no matter how crappy the rest of the roster is.

But, that's different than suggesting that current management is competent.  They've been about as poor as possible in terms of surrounding Lebron and Davis with talent.

In 2020, their supporting cast was:  KCP, Kuzma, Bradley, Green, Howard, Rondo, McGee, THT, Caruso and Morris

In 2021, it was Schroder, Harrell, Kuzma, Drummond, KCP, THT, Caruso, Gasol, Matthews, McLemore, Morris

That's arguably an upgrade in talent, although chemistry and health were problems.

In 2022, they had:  Westbrook, Monk, Carmelo, Reaves, Ellington, Bazemore, D12, THT, Nunn and later Jordan, Augustin

That was an abject failure, showing no sense of appreciation for depth, chemistry or fit.

This year, they're rolling out: Westbrook, THT, Nunn, Bryant, Reaves and a whole bunch of mediocre-to-bad players.

It's just an absolutely garbage roster outside of Lebron and AD.  I'm not sure how anybody can look at the past two off-seasons and feel confident about Lakers management.  And that's without getting into the what ifs regarding Derozan wanting to be there and them passing on him; choosing Westbrook over Hield; management offering Schroder $80 million, etc.
Walker and Toscano-Anderson aren't listed.  I actually like both those additions. 
I was finally wrong. Boston not only didn't win in 5, but didn't win at all.

Re: Lebron extends with LAL
« Reply #43 on: August 19, 2022, 01:25:57 PM »

Offline Vermont Green

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I am not sure I have ever seen a team with two top 10 players (LeBron, AD) with such a pathetic roster around them.

It amazes me that LeBron would hand-over his future, his remaining elite NBA years, to a team this dysfunctional / badly run.

Yeah, this is why I'm not assuming that those 2027 and 2029 draft picks will be late firsts.  The team really has been run incompetently.  The argument that things have been run well during the Jeanie Buss years doesn't make sense to me.  They took a team that won a title, and have followed that up with about the two worst off-seasons possible.  And people forget, but they dodged a bullet when Dennis Schroder turned down an $80+ million contract that the team offered.

The Lakers won a title in 2019-20 with James and Davis and not much else.  The big difference was that they played 67 nd 62 games respectively.  The problems since then are more about the durability of James and Davis than it is about the talent around them or the coach (although all are factors of course).

If they can keep James and Davis on the court (something that probably isn't going to happen), even with Westbrook and whatever as the supporting cast, I think they are going to be better than a lot of people expect.  I don't see them winning a title again as there are several tough teams in the West now but I think they can be good.  LAL made a big bet on James staying healthy so we shall see.

I agree that any team with two top-10 players is formidable, no matter how crappy the rest of the roster is.

But, that's different than suggesting that current management is competent.  They've been about as poor as possible in terms of surrounding Lebron and Davis with talent.

In 2020, their supporting cast was:  KCP, Kuzma, Bradley, Green, Howard, Rondo, McGee, THT, Caruso and Morris

In 2021, it was Schroder, Harrell, Kuzma, Drummond, KCP, THT, Caruso, Gasol, Matthews, McLemore, Morris

That's arguably an upgrade in talent, although chemistry and health were problems.

In 2022, they had:  Westbrook, Monk, Carmelo, Reaves, Ellington, Bazemore, D12, THT, Nunn and later Jordan, Augustin

That was an abject failure, showing no sense of appreciation for depth, chemistry or fit.

This year, they're rolling out: Westbrook, THT, Nunn, Bryant, Reaves and a whole bunch of mediocre-to-bad players.

It's just an absolutely garbage roster outside of Lebron and AD.  I'm not sure how anybody can look at the past two off-seasons and feel confident about Lakers management.  And that's without getting into the what ifs regarding Derozan wanting to be there and them passing on him; choosing Westbrook over Hield; management offering Schroder $80 million, etc.

I am not arguing in favor of the Lakers management.  They made the decision to bring in LeBron and more or less let him call the shots.  Now they have all their cap space tied up in two great but oft injured players.  Even if they are able to move Westbrook, that is still going to be the reality of the team.  They will live and die on the health of two players who haven't had a great durability track record lately.

But if they do somehow stay healthy, I think they will contend, and if they contend, suddenly the narrative around the front office will change.  Back when they got LeBron and Davis and won a championship, the narrative was that the Lakers always get what they want because they are LA.  They were savvy and able to attract ring chaser vets.  After two disappointing season, mostly the result of the health of Davis and LeBron in my opinion, now the front office doesn't seem so savvy.  It is the nature of the business.

Bottom line though is that LAL management made the decision to hitch their wagon to LeBron.  Then they decided to trade all their young players for Davis.  The result is 1 championship and a couple of really disappointing seasons.  Not what they were hoping for I am sure.  But what collection of role players they put around their big two isn't all that impactful relative to the foundation they built by having James and Davis, in my opinion.  Management will look really smart of James and Davis stay healthy and really dumb if they don't.  The truth is somewhere in the middle.

Re: Lebron extends with LAL
« Reply #44 on: August 19, 2022, 01:39:10 PM »

Offline Moranis

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I am not sure I have ever seen a team with two top 10 players (LeBron, AD) with such a pathetic roster around them.

It amazes me that LeBron would hand-over his future, his remaining elite NBA years, to a team this dysfunctional / badly run.

Yeah, this is why I'm not assuming that those 2027 and 2029 draft picks will be late firsts.  The team really has been run incompetently.  The argument that things have been run well during the Jeanie Buss years doesn't make sense to me.  They took a team that won a title, and have followed that up with about the two worst off-seasons possible.  And people forget, but they dodged a bullet when Dennis Schroder turned down an $80+ million contract that the team offered.

The Lakers won a title in 2019-20 with James and Davis and not much else.  The big difference was that they played 67 nd 62 games respectively.  The problems since then are more about the durability of James and Davis than it is about the talent around them or the coach (although all are factors of course).

If they can keep James and Davis on the court (something that probably isn't going to happen), even with Westbrook and whatever as the supporting cast, I think they are going to be better than a lot of people expect.  I don't see them winning a title again as there are several tough teams in the West now but I think they can be good.  LAL made a big bet on James staying healthy so we shall see.

I agree that any team with two top-10 players is formidable, no matter how crappy the rest of the roster is.

But, that's different than suggesting that current management is competent.  They've been about as poor as possible in terms of surrounding Lebron and Davis with talent.

In 2020, their supporting cast was:  KCP, Kuzma, Bradley, Green, Howard, Rondo, McGee, THT, Caruso and Morris

In 2021, it was Schroder, Harrell, Kuzma, Drummond, KCP, THT, Caruso, Gasol, Matthews, McLemore, Morris

That's arguably an upgrade in talent, although chemistry and health were problems.

In 2022, they had:  Westbrook, Monk, Carmelo, Reaves, Ellington, Bazemore, D12, THT, Nunn and later Jordan, Augustin

That was an abject failure, showing no sense of appreciation for depth, chemistry or fit.

This year, they're rolling out: Westbrook, THT, Nunn, Bryant, Reaves and a whole bunch of mediocre-to-bad players.

It's just an absolutely garbage roster outside of Lebron and AD.  I'm not sure how anybody can look at the past two off-seasons and feel confident about Lakers management.  And that's without getting into the what ifs regarding Derozan wanting to be there and them passing on him; choosing Westbrook over Hield; management offering Schroder $80 million, etc.

I am not arguing in favor of the Lakers management.  They made the decision to bring in LeBron and more or less let him call the shots.  Now they have all their cap space tied up in two great but oft injured players.  Even if they are able to move Westbrook, that is still going to be the reality of the team.  They will live and die on the health of two players who haven't had a great durability track record lately.

But if they do somehow stay healthy, I think they will contend, and if they contend, suddenly the narrative around the front office will change.  Back when they got LeBron and Davis and won a championship, the narrative was that the Lakers always get what they want because they are LA.  They were savvy and able to attract ring chaser vets.  After two disappointing season, mostly the result of the health of Davis and LeBron in my opinion, now the front office doesn't seem so savvy.  It is the nature of the business.

Bottom line though is that LAL management made the decision to hitch their wagon to LeBron.  Then they decided to trade all their young players for Davis.  The result is 1 championship and a couple of really disappointing seasons.  Not what they were hoping for I am sure.  But what collection of role players they put around their big two isn't all that impactful relative to the foundation they built by having James and Davis, in my opinion.  Management will look really smart of James and Davis stay healthy and really dumb if they don't.  The truth is somewhere in the middle.
I disagree with a lot of this.  not the health part, that is obviously critical, but with a better more thought out supporting cast last year, I don't think they miss the playoffs.  And it isn't hard to see the sort of team they could have had.

I mean just going for DeRozan instead of Westbrook would have changed a lot because the cost for DeRozan wasn't even as high (they would have been able to keep KCP most likely).  I mean how much different are the Lakers last year with KCP and DeRozan instead of Westbrook.  Now let's say they keep Caruso, Schroder, Matthews.  Maybe they still land Monk, Dwight, and Carmelo

are you telling me that even if Davis and James still missed as much as they did, this team wouldn't have made the playoffs last year

PG - Schroder, Caruso, Reaves
SG - KCP, THT, Matthews
SF - DeRozan, Monk
PF - James, Anthony
C - Davis, Howard

And that still leaves 3 roster spots for guys like Bradley, Jordan, Rondo, Johnson, Bazemore, Ellington, etc.

That team would have been much better suited to withstand injuries to James and Davis, and frankly wouldn't have required them to carry quite the load such that maybe they don't miss quite as many games as they did. 

The Lakers lucked into Lebron, which allowed Davis to reasonably as to go there, but they did a terrible job last summer.  Even if they still acquired Westbrook, there was no reason to just let Caruso and Schroder walk out the door.  They needed guys like that on mid-tier salaries if for no other reason to allow the ability to trade for other players, but also because they are actually good players that they let leave for nothing.  Teams trying to contend can't waste assets like that and the Lakers wasted those assets. 
I was finally wrong. Boston not only didn't win in 5, but didn't win at all.