Author Topic: Dejounte Murray rumors...  (Read 9135 times)

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Re: Dejounte Murray rumors...
« Reply #75 on: June 25, 2022, 09:57:25 PM »

Offline tarheelsxxiii

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Not buying it.  Why would the Spurs trade Murray?
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Re: Dejounte Murray rumors...
« Reply #76 on: June 26, 2022, 03:06:19 AM »

Offline colincb

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The following is the 2021-22 TS% by position using the data at BReference.com:

 NBA    56.6%
 1       54.4%
 2       55.1%
 3       56.0%
 4       57.5%
 5       61.5%

The median PG's TS% was 52.4%.

As such, Murray's 53.3 TS% is slightly below average for his position. With a 54.0 TS%, Marcus Smart is a reasonable yardstick to measure Murray by. A comparison of the two players' 2021-22 results is below

https://stathead.com/tiny/HG9mI

3FG%, 2FG%, and FT% are virtually the same for these two players. Smart has the higher TS% because he shoots a much higher percentage of his shots from beyond the arc, while Murray has a much higher FG% (45% vs. 42%) because he shoots mainly in the 2-point territory. The scoring is in Murray's favor because of higher usage, but he's also the Spurs' number 1 option and should get most of the opponent's defensive attention. I would expect that Murray's scoring is more consistent (i.e., he has fewer droughts) than Smart's because 3-point shooting is more volatile than 2-point shooting and because Murray gets to the line more.

Where Murray blows Smart out of the water is in playmaking and rebounding. He has a 41% Assist% and a 12% Turnover% to Smart's 26% and 17%. Murray was 5th in the league on Assist% behind Young, Luka, Paul, and Jokic. IOW is elite and with a better TO rate than those four. Murray's TRB% is at 13% vs. Smart's 6% and second to Luka among PGs. I haven't seen enough to know whether he's that much better a rebounder than Smart, but he's also a top steals guy, which indicates he has a nose for the ball.

Lastly, the advanced +/- stats are in Murray's favor this year, with his dominance over Smart offensively more than offsetting Smart's advantage defensively. Last year, it was closer, and before that, Smart had better numbers which, however, could be reasonably attributed to having a couple of years more experience on Murray.

As to the original question, I'd do the deal for three late firsts in a minute if we're taking Murray into the TPE or giving the Spurs non-core players. I think the numbers indicate he's better than Smart and clearly a much better offensive PG, but I'd have trouble trading Smart and three firsts for him straight up, even if Murray gave me a lot less heartburn.



Re: Dejounte Murray rumors...
« Reply #77 on: June 26, 2022, 03:26:39 AM »

Offline KG Living Legend

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Not buying it.  Why would the Spurs trade Murray?


 They are rebuilding Tarheels. They are very willing to deal anyone right now for the right price. Pop and Brad are very close, and Pop could help us win a title with a Murray trade to Boston.

 Boston can help with picks and swaps setting up them for years to come.

Re: Dejounte Murray rumors...
« Reply #78 on: June 26, 2022, 08:19:50 AM »

Offline Dchuck

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The following is the 2021-22 TS% by position using the data at BReference.com:

 NBA    56.6%
 1       54.4%
 2       55.1%
 3       56.0%
 4       57.5%
 5       61.5%

The median PG's TS% was 52.4%.

As such, Murray's 53.3 TS% is slightly below average for his position. With a 54.0 TS%, Marcus Smart is a reasonable yardstick to measure Murray by. A comparison of the two players' 2021-22 results is below

https://stathead.com/tiny/HG9mI

3FG%, 2FG%, and FT% are virtually the same for these two players. Smart has the higher TS% because he shoots a much higher percentage of his shots from beyond the arc, while Murray has a much higher FG% (45% vs. 42%) because he shoots mainly in the 2-point territory. The scoring is in Murray's favor because of higher usage, but he's also the Spurs' number 1 option and should get most of the opponent's defensive attention. I would expect that Murray's scoring is more consistent (i.e., he has fewer droughts) than Smart's because 3-point shooting is more volatile than 2-point shooting and because Murray gets to the line more.

Where Murray blows Smart out of the water is in playmaking and rebounding. He has a 41% Assist% and a 12% Turnover% to Smart's 26% and 17%. Murray was 5th in the league on Assist% behind Young, Luka, Paul, and Jokic. IOW is elite and with a better TO rate than those four. Murray's TRB% is at 13% vs. Smart's 6% and second to Luka among PGs. I haven't seen enough to know whether he's that much better a rebounder than Smart, but he's also a top steals guy, which indicates he has a nose for the ball.

Lastly, the advanced +/- stats are in Murray's favor this year, with his dominance over Smart offensively more than offsetting Smart's advantage defensively. Last year, it was closer, and before that, Smart had better numbers which, however, could be reasonably attributed to having a couple of years more experience on Murray.

As to the original question, I'd do the deal for three late firsts in a minute if we're taking Murray into the TPE or giving the Spurs non-core players. I think the numbers indicate he's better than Smart and clearly a much better offensive PG, but I'd have trouble trading Smart and three firsts for him straight up, even if Murray gave me a lot less heartburn.

I hear you, the thought of breaking up the core doesnt sit well with me either.  But hypothetically speaking, if were to get him with the TPE, who starts?  Smart or Murray?  If we start Smart (the lesser of the two) to appease him we run the risk of Murray being unhappy about coming off the bench after an all star season.  It could make him start thinking about signing elsewhwere when his contract is up.  We certainly wouldnt want him to bolt after giving up 3 first rounders.
If we start Murray, Smart will be disgruntled.  And with his strong personality that could be a bad thing, with chemistry and such.

Is there room for both?

Re: Dejounte Murray rumors...
« Reply #79 on: June 26, 2022, 08:21:28 AM »

Offline Sophomore

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If you did take Murray into the TPE for picks I think you’d want another trade or trades to rebalance the team. Otherwise you carry Smart, White, Murray, and Pritchard as rotation-quality point guards and maybe SGs, but all with iffy outside shooting, while leaving the team’s lack of depth at forward unaddressed. Keeping all of that group would probably mean having to start smart and Murray together, with Smart as the 2 guard, or making Smart 6th man again. I would worry about either option.

So, Smart as the centerpiece of a deal for a forward of comparable quality, or adding contracts or picks to make the salaries and values match. Smart for Nance and a first?

None of this, of course, is in line with Stevens’ view that we need to be careful not to disrupt team chemistry…

Re: Dejounte Murray rumors...
« Reply #80 on: June 26, 2022, 10:04:27 AM »

Offline td450

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Assuming the story about Murray is essentially legit, the underlying rationale is to tank.

Murray has been good enough to keep them in the latter portion of the lottery. They need a true championship #1, and Murray isn't ever going to be that. Ship him out with no replacement, and they aren't competitive.

So any deal will mean draft picks. They won't want players, especially competitive starters like Smart. They will likely want to spend 2 years at the bottom of the league. Its hard to see them clawing back into championship mode any other way.

Am I wrong or are we the only team with the TPE to take Murray in without shipping salary? We would probably need to trade Smart for a quality pick to do this, and maybe do the same with Grant Williams who might fetch a later 1st at this point.

We can forget about just sending them the players we need least and doing this.

Re: Dejounte Murray rumors...
« Reply #81 on: June 26, 2022, 10:12:05 AM »

Offline Sophomore

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That sounds right - and if so they’d want good draft capital, they’d tank to try to get their own good pick, and they’d create cap room. For all those reasons sending them smart doesn’t seem likely.  What SA would require to send Murray idk.

We might be the only team with a TPE this big, but there are a few teams with cap room - which could create a TPE for SA if they liked the rest of the offer.

Re: Dejounte Murray rumors...
« Reply #82 on: June 26, 2022, 10:39:57 AM »

Offline Who

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Keldon Johnson would be a really interesting 6th man backup wing.

The new James Posey.

Re: Dejounte Murray rumors...
« Reply #83 on: June 26, 2022, 10:59:56 AM »

Offline colincb

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The following is the 2021-22 TS% by position using the data at BReference.com:

 NBA    56.6%
 1       54.4%
 2       55.1%
 3       56.0%
 4       57.5%
 5       61.5%

The median PG's TS% was 52.4%.

As such, Murray's 53.3 TS% is slightly below average for his position. With a 54.0 TS%, Marcus Smart is a reasonable yardstick to measure Murray by. A comparison of the two players' 2021-22 results is below

https://stathead.com/tiny/HG9mI

3FG%, 2FG%, and FT% are virtually the same for these two players. Smart has the higher TS% because he shoots a much higher percentage of his shots from beyond the arc, while Murray has a much higher FG% (45% vs. 42%) because he shoots mainly in the 2-point territory. The scoring is in Murray's favor because of higher usage, but he's also the Spurs' number 1 option and should get most of the opponent's defensive attention. I would expect that Murray's scoring is more consistent (i.e., he has fewer droughts) than Smart's because 3-point shooting is more volatile than 2-point shooting and because Murray gets to the line more.

Where Murray blows Smart out of the water is in playmaking and rebounding. He has a 41% Assist% and a 12% Turnover% to Smart's 26% and 17%. Murray was 5th in the league on Assist% behind Young, Luka, Paul, and Jokic. IOW is elite and with a better TO rate than those four. Murray's TRB% is at 13% vs. Smart's 6% and second to Luka among PGs. I haven't seen enough to know whether he's that much better a rebounder than Smart, but he's also a top steals guy, which indicates he has a nose for the ball.

Lastly, the advanced +/- stats are in Murray's favor this year, with his dominance over Smart offensively more than offsetting Smart's advantage defensively. Last year, it was closer, and before that, Smart had better numbers which, however, could be reasonably attributed to having a couple of years more experience on Murray.

As to the original question, I'd do the deal for three late firsts in a minute if we're taking Murray into the TPE or giving the Spurs non-core players. I think the numbers indicate he's better than Smart and clearly a much better offensive PG, but I'd have trouble trading Smart and three firsts for him straight up, even if Murray gave me a lot less heartburn.

I hear you, the thought of breaking up the core doesnt sit well with me either.  But hypothetically speaking, if were to get him with the TPE, who starts?  Smart or Murray?  If we start Smart (the lesser of the two) to appease him we run the risk of Murray being unhappy about coming off the bench after an all star season.  It could make him start thinking about signing elsewhwere when his contract is up.  We certainly wouldnt want him to bolt after giving up 3 first rounders.
If we start Murray, Smart will be disgruntled.  And with his strong personality that could be a bad thing, with chemistry and such.

Is there room for both?

You'd start them both, move JB to 3, JT to 3, and start either Al or TL and conserve them over the course of the season. Both could also play some at the 4 during games too.

Re: Dejounte Murray rumors...
« Reply #84 on: June 26, 2022, 12:23:54 PM »

Offline Sophomore

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The following is the 2021-22 TS% by position using the data at BReference.com:

 NBA    56.6%
 1       54.4%
 2       55.1%
 3       56.0%
 4       57.5%
 5       61.5%

The median PG's TS% was 52.4%.

As such, Murray's 53.3 TS% is slightly below average for his position. With a 54.0 TS%, Marcus Smart is a reasonable yardstick to measure Murray by. A comparison of the two players' 2021-22 results is below

https://stathead.com/tiny/HG9mI

3FG%, 2FG%, and FT% are virtually the same for these two players. Smart has the higher TS% because he shoots a much higher percentage of his shots from beyond the arc, while Murray has a much higher FG% (45% vs. 42%) because he shoots mainly in the 2-point territory. The scoring is in Murray's favor because of higher usage, but he's also the Spurs' number 1 option and should get most of the opponent's defensive attention. I would expect that Murray's scoring is more consistent (i.e., he has fewer droughts) than Smart's because 3-point shooting is more volatile than 2-point shooting and because Murray gets to the line more.

Where Murray blows Smart out of the water is in playmaking and rebounding. He has a 41% Assist% and a 12% Turnover% to Smart's 26% and 17%. Murray was 5th in the league on Assist% behind Young, Luka, Paul, and Jokic. IOW is elite and with a better TO rate than those four. Murray's TRB% is at 13% vs. Smart's 6% and second to Luka among PGs. I haven't seen enough to know whether he's that much better a rebounder than Smart, but he's also a top steals guy, which indicates he has a nose for the ball.

Lastly, the advanced +/- stats are in Murray's favor this year, with his dominance over Smart offensively more than offsetting Smart's advantage defensively. Last year, it was closer, and before that, Smart had better numbers which, however, could be reasonably attributed to having a couple of years more experience on Murray.

As to the original question, I'd do the deal for three late firsts in a minute if we're taking Murray into the TPE or giving the Spurs non-core players. I think the numbers indicate he's better than Smart and clearly a much better offensive PG, but I'd have trouble trading Smart and three firsts for him straight up, even if Murray gave me a lot less heartburn.

I hear you, the thought of breaking up the core doesnt sit well with me either.  But hypothetically speaking, if were to get him with the TPE, who starts?  Smart or Murray?  If we start Smart (the lesser of the two) to appease him we run the risk of Murray being unhappy about coming off the bench after an all star season.  It could make him start thinking about signing elsewhwere when his contract is up.  We certainly wouldnt want him to bolt after giving up 3 first rounders.
If we start Murray, Smart will be disgruntled.  And with his strong personality that could be a bad thing, with chemistry and such.

Is there room for both?

You'd start them both, move JB to 3, JT to 3, and start either Al or TL and conserve them over the course of the season. Both could also play some at the 4 during games too.

If you start Murray, Smart, and Rob, opposing teams are going to pack the paint. Smart as a 2 guard always put some pressure on the offensive scheme, but doubling and tripling down? Ime would really need to find some novel ways to open driving lanes.

Re: Dejounte Murray rumors...
« Reply #85 on: June 27, 2022, 05:12:44 PM »

Online Roy H.

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This one been discussed yet?

Quote
In talking with multiple sources around the NBA, many believe Hawks on verge of trading for San Antonio's All-Star guard Dejounte Murray - However, it's looking like John Collins is not part of deal. Would be Gallo & multiple 1st round picks. Spurs prepping for future & '23 draft

That would seemingly be a weird one for SAS.


I'M THE SILVERBACK GORILLA IN THIS MOTHER——— AND DON'T NONE OF YA'LL EVER FORGET IT!@ 34 minutes

Re: Dejounte Murray rumors...
« Reply #86 on: June 27, 2022, 05:31:41 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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This one been discussed yet?

Quote
In talking with multiple sources around the NBA, many believe Hawks on verge of trading for San Antonio's All-Star guard Dejounte Murray - However, it's looking like John Collins is not part of deal. Would be Gallo & multiple 1st round picks. Spurs prepping for future & '23 draft

That would seemingly be a weird one for SAS.

Is pop going to not retire ever? Seems a weird time to start a rebuild and Murray is only 25.

Re: Dejounte Murray rumors...
« Reply #87 on: June 27, 2022, 05:35:53 PM »

Offline Celtics2021

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This one been discussed yet?

Quote
In talking with multiple sources around the NBA, many believe Hawks on verge of trading for San Antonio's All-Star guard Dejounte Murray - However, it's looking like John Collins is not part of deal. Would be Gallo & multiple 1st round picks. Spurs prepping for future & '23 draft

That would seemingly be a weird one for SAS.

Is pop going to not retire ever? Seems a weird time to start a rebuild and Murray is only 25.

Pop doesn't seem like the type to worsen the future of a franchise for one last personal chance at glory.  He'll step away when he steps away, regardless of the trajectory of the team.

Re: Dejounte Murray rumors...
« Reply #88 on: June 27, 2022, 05:39:59 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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This one been discussed yet?

Quote
In talking with multiple sources around the NBA, many believe Hawks on verge of trading for San Antonio's All-Star guard Dejounte Murray - However, it's looking like John Collins is not part of deal. Would be Gallo & multiple 1st round picks. Spurs prepping for future & '23 draft

That would seemingly be a weird one for SAS.

Is pop going to not retire ever? Seems a weird time to start a rebuild and Murray is only 25.

Pop doesn't seem like the type to worsen the future of a franchise for one last personal chance at glory.  He'll step away when he steps away, regardless of the trajectory of the team.

Im not saying he has to Buck wild trying to get vets to be .500 but would seem tough to have your last season be for a 23 win team.

Re: Dejounte Murray rumors...
« Reply #89 on: June 27, 2022, 05:51:58 PM »

Online DefenseWinsChamps

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This one been discussed yet?

Quote
In talking with multiple sources around the NBA, many believe Hawks on verge of trading for San Antonio's All-Star guard Dejounte Murray - However, it's looking like John Collins is not part of deal. Would be Gallo & multiple 1st round picks. Spurs prepping for future & '23 draft

That would seemingly be a weird one for SAS.

My gosh. Gallo is almost certainly going to be released because of his partial guarantee.

If that's all that costs, the Cs should just offer multiple firsts and the TPE. I know the roster doesn't make much sense then, but you can figure that out later.