Author Topic: Cryrie at impasse with Nets, could test open market  (Read 2450 times)

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Re: Cryrie at impasse with Nets, could test open market
« Reply #30 on: June 22, 2022, 02:40:51 AM »

Offline pokeKingCurtis

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LeBron will probably try to orchestrate this: Kyrie opts-in, and sits out like Simmons, simultaneously getting KD to sit out too. They both demand to be dealt to the Lakers or say they’re not playing in 2022-2023. Nets do not have much leverage, so KD/Kyrie get dealt to LA Lakers for AD/Westbrook/whatever picks are left for LA to deal. 😬 then all the ring-chasers join the club for one last attempt by the King to win a title…

And it could just work…I mean, LA/LeBron need some shenanigans to get out of the Westbrick nightmare. Meanwhile, on the Nets side, having a frontcourt of AD/Simmons with a decent-ish supporting cast and a bunch of picks from LA, albeit years from now and second-rounders, is nothing to turn your nose up at. Plus Westbrook is still a big name and a frontcourt like that might be good for his game.

No part of this makes any sense. Reminds me of that scene from billy Madison.

OK. A simple “wrong” would’ve done just fine 🤣

In all seriousness, LAL have a ton of picks and swaps to throw at Brooklyn. We all know that LeBron gets special treatment. If KD/Kyrie want to force their way into LA with LeBron, I bet it can happen.

The Lakers have a ton of picks and swaps?

Didn’t they give all those away to get Anthony Davis?

LA's "tons of picks and swaps to throw at Brooklyn" include all of the following:

2023 2nd rounder from Chicago

2024 2nd rounder from Washington or Memphis

2028 2nd rounder from Wsahington

On top of that, they owe the following picks of their own to other teams:

2022 1st rounder to NOLA

2022 2nd rounder to SAS

2023 1st rounder pick swap to NOLA

2024 1st rounder to NOLA

2024 2nd rounder to Memphis

2026 2nd rounder to Cleveland

Hard to pass up that behemoth pick package!  ;D You can find it all here: https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/draft/future_drafts/detailed.

You forgot they could use these in addition to all of those seconds, and AD:

2025 1st swap
2026 1st
2027 1st swap
2028 1st
2029 1st swap

Do you think 37-year-old GM James is not going to try turning those into present day improvements?

Anybody who thinks the Lakers are just stuck with AD/Westbrick is not paying attention to how it works for the Lakers in this NBA of the past 25 years. Just wait and see.

The only picks they can trade are first rounds in 2027 and 2029. unless every article on the lakers blog is wrong. You are flat out wrong they could trade a first round pick in 2025 or 2026 at this time. This is substantially less than just about any team. Also in what world are the lakers getting good players in trades the last 20 years. They actually overpaid for Davis giving up a ton of first round picks on top of Ingram (a rising all star), ball and hart. The first of these picks is already the 8th pick. It was a massive overpay given the contract situation of Davis. Their other recent star Westbrook was an awful trade and a guy nobody wanted. Their last actual productive star you could argue they fleeced someone on was gasol 14 years ago. Again, I like your out of the box thinking sometime but this doesn’t make sense for about 8 different reasons.

Nitpicking but I guess the AD trade they already knew he was going to re-sign?

Re: Cryrie at impasse with Nets, could test open market
« Reply #31 on: June 22, 2022, 04:30:18 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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LeBron will probably try to orchestrate this: Kyrie opts-in, and sits out like Simmons, simultaneously getting KD to sit out too. They both demand to be dealt to the Lakers or say they’re not playing in 2022-2023. Nets do not have much leverage, so KD/Kyrie get dealt to LA Lakers for AD/Westbrook/whatever picks are left for LA to deal. 😬 then all the ring-chasers join the club for one last attempt by the King to win a title…

And it could just work…I mean, LA/LeBron need some shenanigans to get out of the Westbrick nightmare. Meanwhile, on the Nets side, having a frontcourt of AD/Simmons with a decent-ish supporting cast and a bunch of picks from LA, albeit years from now and second-rounders, is nothing to turn your nose up at. Plus Westbrook is still a big name and a frontcourt like that might be good for his game.

No part of this makes any sense. Reminds me of that scene from billy Madison.

OK. A simple “wrong” would’ve done just fine 🤣

In all seriousness, LAL have a ton of picks and swaps to throw at Brooklyn. We all know that LeBron gets special treatment. If KD/Kyrie want to force their way into LA with LeBron, I bet it can happen.

The Lakers have a ton of picks and swaps?

Didn’t they give all those away to get Anthony Davis?

LA's "tons of picks and swaps to throw at Brooklyn" include all of the following:

2023 2nd rounder from Chicago

2024 2nd rounder from Washington or Memphis

2028 2nd rounder from Wsahington

On top of that, they owe the following picks of their own to other teams:

2022 1st rounder to NOLA

2022 2nd rounder to SAS

2023 1st rounder pick swap to NOLA

2024 1st rounder to NOLA

2024 2nd rounder to Memphis

2026 2nd rounder to Cleveland

Hard to pass up that behemoth pick package!  ;D You can find it all here: https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/draft/future_drafts/detailed.

You forgot they could use these in addition to all of those seconds, and AD:

2025 1st swap
2026 1st
2027 1st swap
2028 1st
2029 1st swap

Do you think 37-year-old GM James is not going to try turning those into present day improvements?

Anybody who thinks the Lakers are just stuck with AD/Westbrick is not paying attention to how it works for the Lakers in this NBA of the past 25 years. Just wait and see.

The only picks they can trade are first rounds in 2027 and 2029. unless every article on the lakers blog is wrong. You are flat out wrong they could trade a first round pick in 2025 or 2026 at this time. This is substantially less than just about any team. Also in what world are the lakers getting good players in trades the last 20 years. They actually overpaid for Davis giving up a ton of first round picks on top of Ingram (a rising all star), ball and hart. The first of these picks is already the 8th pick. It was a massive overpay given the contract situation of Davis. Their other recent star Westbrook was an awful trade and a guy nobody wanted. Their last actual productive star you could argue they fleeced someone on was gasol 14 years ago. Again, I like your out of the box thinking sometime but this doesn’t make sense for about 8 different reasons.

Nitpicking but I guess the AD trade they already knew he was going to re-sign?

That is a counter argument to what I think you are trying to make. AD was going to sign with the lakers in free agency for nothing more than cap space.

Re: Cryrie at impasse with Nets, could test open market
« Reply #32 on: June 23, 2022, 04:22:22 AM »

Offline pokeKingCurtis

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LeBron will probably try to orchestrate this: Kyrie opts-in, and sits out like Simmons, simultaneously getting KD to sit out too. They both demand to be dealt to the Lakers or say they’re not playing in 2022-2023. Nets do not have much leverage, so KD/Kyrie get dealt to LA Lakers for AD/Westbrook/whatever picks are left for LA to deal. 😬 then all the ring-chasers join the club for one last attempt by the King to win a title…

And it could just work…I mean, LA/LeBron need some shenanigans to get out of the Westbrick nightmare. Meanwhile, on the Nets side, having a frontcourt of AD/Simmons with a decent-ish supporting cast and a bunch of picks from LA, albeit years from now and second-rounders, is nothing to turn your nose up at. Plus Westbrook is still a big name and a frontcourt like that might be good for his game.

No part of this makes any sense. Reminds me of that scene from billy Madison.

OK. A simple “wrong” would’ve done just fine 🤣

In all seriousness, LAL have a ton of picks and swaps to throw at Brooklyn. We all know that LeBron gets special treatment. If KD/Kyrie want to force their way into LA with LeBron, I bet it can happen.

The Lakers have a ton of picks and swaps?

Didn’t they give all those away to get Anthony Davis?

LA's "tons of picks and swaps to throw at Brooklyn" include all of the following:

2023 2nd rounder from Chicago

2024 2nd rounder from Washington or Memphis

2028 2nd rounder from Wsahington

On top of that, they owe the following picks of their own to other teams:

2022 1st rounder to NOLA

2022 2nd rounder to SAS

2023 1st rounder pick swap to NOLA

2024 1st rounder to NOLA

2024 2nd rounder to Memphis

2026 2nd rounder to Cleveland

Hard to pass up that behemoth pick package!  ;D You can find it all here: https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/draft/future_drafts/detailed.

You forgot they could use these in addition to all of those seconds, and AD:

2025 1st swap
2026 1st
2027 1st swap
2028 1st
2029 1st swap

Do you think 37-year-old GM James is not going to try turning those into present day improvements?

Anybody who thinks the Lakers are just stuck with AD/Westbrick is not paying attention to how it works for the Lakers in this NBA of the past 25 years. Just wait and see.

The only picks they can trade are first rounds in 2027 and 2029. unless every article on the lakers blog is wrong. You are flat out wrong they could trade a first round pick in 2025 or 2026 at this time. This is substantially less than just about any team. Also in what world are the lakers getting good players in trades the last 20 years. They actually overpaid for Davis giving up a ton of first round picks on top of Ingram (a rising all star), ball and hart. The first of these picks is already the 8th pick. It was a massive overpay given the contract situation of Davis. Their other recent star Westbrook was an awful trade and a guy nobody wanted. Their last actual productive star you could argue they fleeced someone on was gasol 14 years ago. Again, I like your out of the box thinking sometime but this doesn’t make sense for about 8 different reasons.

Nitpicking but I guess the AD trade they already knew he was going to re-sign?

That is a counter argument to what I think you are trying to make. AD was going to sign with the lakers in free agency for nothing more than cap space.

I'm not good with logic and word logic and whatnot but I think we're basically in agreement. Basically the AD trade wasn't a trade for his contract at the time, per se, but a trade with the understanding he'll re-sign. And we both think the Lakers have not made a good trade since forever,...

...and have won despite just generally being run poorly, by lucking into LeBron and whatnot - and that makes us both wanna throw up.

Re: Cryrie at impasse with Nets, could test open market
« Reply #33 on: June 23, 2022, 04:31:36 AM »

Offline ozgod

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Any odd typos are because I suck at typing on an iPhone :D

Re: Cryrie at impasse with Nets, could test open market
« Reply #34 on: June 23, 2022, 06:22:48 AM »

Offline tenn_smoothie

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Meanwhile, two teams heavy with homegrown talent just played in the finals for the title.

I am taking great pleasure in watching these "glitter" teams, who acquire all-star talent in free agency by falling out of bed in the morning, end up painting themselves into salary cap and draft pick corners with no good way out because the mega-stars that they signed become unhappy when things don't go exactly their way and then look for the easiest way out of town.
The Four Celtic Generals:
Russell - Cowens - Bird - Garnett

The Four Celtic Lieutenants:
Cousy - Havlicek - McHale - Pierce

Re: Cryrie at impasse with Nets, could test open market
« Reply #35 on: June 23, 2022, 06:53:51 AM »

Offline pokeKingCurtis

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Meanwhile, two teams heavy with homegrown talent just played in the finals for the title.

I am taking great pleasure in watching these "glitter" teams, who acquire all-star talent in free agency by falling out of bed in the morning, end up painting themselves into salary cap and draft pick corners with no good way out because the mega-stars that they signed become unhappy when things don't go exactly their way and then look for the easiest way out of town.

A third won out last year too (Bucks), and a 4th were in those finals I guess (Suns).

Re: Cryrie at impasse with Nets, could test open market
« Reply #36 on: June 23, 2022, 07:15:22 AM »

Offline Kernewek

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I will look back more fondly on Kyrie Irving's tenure in Boston if he can single-handedly turn a team that started last season with Kevin Durant and James Harden into a team that starts the next season with Ben Simmons.
Man had always assumed that he was more intelligent than dolphins because he had achieved so much—the wheel, New York, wars and so on—whilst all the dolphins had ever done was muck about in the water having a good time.

But conversely, the dolphins had always believed that they were far more intelligent than man—for precisely the same reasons.

Re: Cryrie at impasse with Nets, could test open market
« Reply #37 on: June 23, 2022, 08:59:09 AM »

Online Moranis

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Meanwhile, two teams heavy with homegrown talent just played in the finals for the title.

I am taking great pleasure in watching these "glitter" teams, who acquire all-star talent in free agency by falling out of bed in the morning, end up painting themselves into salary cap and draft pick corners with no good way out because the mega-stars that they signed become unhappy when things don't go exactly their way and then look for the easiest way out of town.
not that many teams are actually built through free agency.  The Nets obviously acquired Durant and Irving that way, but most of the rest of the roster was trades.  The Lakers signed Lebron in free agency, but the rest of the main roster was trades or drafted players, and trades of almost exclusively homegrown talent to acquire said players.  The Heat did acquire Butler and Lowry in free agency, but the rest of the key players were draft picks (or players they signed very young and developed). 

The last team to win a title where at least 2 of the 3 best players were acquired in free agency were the Heat in 12 and 13 (the Lakers in 20 were arguable depending on who you consider the 3rd player i.e. KCP, Green, Kuzma).  And frankly, those might be the only 2 teams in history that fit that description. 
I was finally wrong. Boston not only didn't win in 5, but didn't win at all.

Re: Cryrie at impasse with Nets, could test open market
« Reply #38 on: June 23, 2022, 09:16:32 PM »

Offline ozgod

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Here's how it would possibly work.

Quote
For the Lakers, the likely path to acquire Irving — and reunite him with LeBron James — would be Irving opting in to facilitate a trade, because the Lakers cannot realistically clear cap space to sign him themselves, and a sign-and-trade would trigger the hard cap, thus making acquiring Irving significantly more difficult. If Irving would opt in, Lakers general manager Rob Pelinka would have to satisfy the collective bargaining agreement’s salary-matching rules, meaning if Irving’s $36.6 million was the only incoming salary, the Lakers could send anywhere from $29.3 million to $45.8 million to the Nets and/or a third team in a legal transaction.

For the Knicks, the likely path to acquire Irving depends on what the Nets prioritize. New York is even with the salary-cap line for 2022-23 so it could clear enough space to sign Irving on a maximum contract by offloading salaries such as Evan Fournier, Alec Burks, Nerlens Noel and Kemba Walker. But the Knicks could also offer some or all of those players to the Nets or a third team in a possible sign-and-trade.

For the Clippers, the likely path to get Irving requires him to opt in, because they are significantly over both the luxury-tax line and the hard cap for 2022-23. To satisfy salary matching, the Clippers would need to send out between $29.3 million and $45.8 million to the Nets and/or a third team if Irving is the only salary headed their way. The Clippers’ scenario is less complicated than the Lakers, as the Clippers have a series of players making $11 million to $17 million to work with. For example, two or three of Norman Powell, Marcus Morris, Luke Kennard and Reggie Jackson going out satisfies the CBA’s trade rules, and they also have a collection of young players like Terance Mann or Brandon Boston who could help sweeten the deal.

A potential Irving departure would be incredibly damaging to the Nets because of their limited ability to replace him and his salary slot should Irving sign elsewhere as a free agent. A likelier path to any departure would be via sign-and-trade. Brooklyn owes $111 million to six players in 2022-23, not including Irving, so even filling out the roster with minimum salaries would put the Nets over next season’s projected salary cap of $122 million. If Irving bolts, Brooklyn’s strongest path to adding talent would be the full $10.3 million midlevel exception. Irving is also eligible for a new deal via exercising his player option and extending his contract from there, which could land him a starting salary of $45.2 million for 2023-24.

https://theathletic.com/3373269/2022/06/20/nets-kyrie-irving-nba-news/
Any odd typos are because I suck at typing on an iPhone :D

Re: Cryrie at impasse with Nets, could test open market
« Reply #39 on: June 23, 2022, 09:59:12 PM »

Offline BringToughnessBack

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I really want a Celtics Lakers finals with Cryrie and Lebron vs us!