Author Topic: Red Sox 2022  (Read 37248 times)

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Re: Red Sox 2022
« Reply #45 on: May 23, 2022, 03:56:18 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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Looks like Boegarts is still willing to negotiate, even after being absolutely low-balled in extension talks.

https://sports.yahoo.com/xander-bogaerts-just-gave-red-132300377.html

Meanwhile, Trevor Story has a .561 OPS.

Story now has an ops of .748 and 4th in AL in rbi. Wow

Re: Red Sox 2022
« Reply #46 on: May 23, 2022, 03:59:46 PM »

Offline Vermont Green

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Something went wrong, deleted.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2022, 05:06:53 PM by Vermont Green »

Re: Red Sox 2022
« Reply #47 on: May 23, 2022, 04:03:40 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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In reference to mookie, who is currently the oldest gold glove outfielder? I don’t think historically it is even players in their mid 30’s.

Re: Red Sox 2022
« Reply #48 on: May 23, 2022, 04:16:31 PM »

Offline jambr380

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Bloom got killed for not resigning Mookie, and he's now hitting .254.

He's now hitting .273 (45th in MLB), with a league-leading 40 runs scored, 10 HRs (7th), and 24 RBIs (22nd).  His OPS is .888 (14th), just percentage points below his career average (.890).  He's 15th in WAR.

Trading him was still one of the bigger mistakes in Red Sox history in my opinion.

In history seems a little much. He is essentially going to be getting paid ~$30M/yr until he is 40 years old. And he isn't even 30 yet. At least they were able to trade him, rather than just letting him go for free. I get that the Red Sox organization has infinite money and he's definitely not the kind-of player a franchise in our position chooses to let go, but his contract is definitely concerning. Even though he is still good, he's not exactly elite at this point either.

How do you define elite?  A top-15 player offensively and still a very good defender.  Is that elite?
Actually, I just looked at Spotrac.  They list the contract as $365 over 12 years (2021-2031, at which time he will be 39) but according to Spotrac, there is another $115 deferred over the following 12 years (2033 to 2044).  So the total contract is $480M.  12 years of deferred money?  I didn't even know you could do that?

If we hadn't traded him, and signed him to this type of contract, people would be saying it is the worst contract in Red Sox history for many many years.

Can you imagine in 2030, When Mookie is 37, likely hitting far below what is is doing now and maybe can't even play the field, and he has 3 more seasons at about $33M per and then 12 years and $115M deferred?

I am willing to bet that the Dodgers end up trading him before the end of his contract, eating substantial money as part of the trade.  The risk is just too high for this type of contract.  I cannot fault the Red Sox for not getting tied up in this.

I could be totally wrong, but it looks like the deferred money is part of that $365M contract, not in addition to. There is $255M in yearly cash through 2032 and then another $120M through 2044 (which strangely adds up to $375M, not $365M). I can see how you may have come to that based on the way the numbers are presented, but I think it is basically a way to help keep their luxury tax numbers lower by paying him less now. You do have to admit that it is kind-of hilarious that he will be making $11M in 2044.

Re: Red Sox 2022
« Reply #49 on: May 23, 2022, 05:04:56 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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Bloom got killed for not resigning Mookie, and he's now hitting .254.

He's now hitting .273 (45th in MLB), with a league-leading 40 runs scored, 10 HRs (7th), and 24 RBIs (22nd).  His OPS is .888 (14th), just percentage points below his career average (.890).  He's 15th in WAR.

Trading him was still one of the bigger mistakes in Red Sox history in my opinion.

In history seems a little much. He is essentially going to be getting paid ~$30M/yr until he is 40 years old. And he isn't even 30 yet. At least they were able to trade him, rather than just letting him go for free. I get that the Red Sox organization has infinite money and he's definitely not the kind-of player a franchise in our position chooses to let go, but his contract is definitely concerning. Even though he is still good, he's not exactly elite at this point either.

How do you define elite?  A top-15 player offensively and still a very good defender.  Is that elite?
Actually, I just looked at Spotrac.  They list the contract as $365 over 12 years (2021-2031, at which time he will be 39) but according to Spotrac, there is another $115 deferred over the following 12 years (2033 to 2044).  So the total contract is $480M.  12 years of deferred money?  I didn't even know you could do that?

If we hadn't traded him, and signed him to this type of contract, people would be saying it is the worst contract in Red Sox history for many many years.

Can you imagine in 2030, When Mookie is 37, likely hitting far below what is is doing now and maybe can't even play the field, and he has 3 more seasons at about $33M per and then 12 years and $115M deferred?

I am willing to bet that the Dodgers end up trading him before the end of his contract, eating substantial money as part of the trade.  The risk is just too high for this type of contract.  I cannot fault the Red Sox for not getting tied up in this.

I could be totally wrong, but it looks like the deferred money is part of that $365M contract, not in addition to. There is $255M in yearly cash through 2032 and then another $120M through 2044 (which strangely adds up to $375M, not $365M). I can see how you may have come to that based on the way the numbers are presented, but I think it is basically a way to help keep their luxury tax numbers lower by paying him less now. You do have to admit that it is kind-of hilarious that he will be making $11M in 2044.

Yeah, this is the Bobby Bonilla method. 

Deferred money generally is to the benefit of the team, not the player.  $11 million in 2044 is worth way less than $11 million in 2022.

As for the "risk"...  I don't see a lot of risk when Fenway essentially mints money.  The Dodgers certainly aren't letting spending hold them back.


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Re: Red Sox 2022
« Reply #50 on: May 23, 2022, 05:18:44 PM »

Offline Celtics2021

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Bloom got killed for not resigning Mookie, and he's now hitting .254.

He's now hitting .273 (45th in MLB), with a league-leading 40 runs scored, 10 HRs (7th), and 24 RBIs (22nd).  His OPS is .888 (14th), just percentage points below his career average (.890).  He's 15th in WAR.

Trading him was still one of the bigger mistakes in Red Sox history in my opinion.

In history seems a little much. He is essentially going to be getting paid ~$30M/yr until he is 40 years old. And he isn't even 30 yet. At least they were able to trade him, rather than just letting him go for free. I get that the Red Sox organization has infinite money and he's definitely not the kind-of player a franchise in our position chooses to let go, but his contract is definitely concerning. Even though he is still good, he's not exactly elite at this point either.

How do you define elite?  A top-15 player offensively and still a very good defender.  Is that elite?
Actually, I just looked at Spotrac.  They list the contract as $365 over 12 years (2021-2031, at which time he will be 39) but according to Spotrac, there is another $115 deferred over the following 12 years (2033 to 2044).  So the total contract is $480M.  12 years of deferred money?  I didn't even know you could do that?

If we hadn't traded him, and signed him to this type of contract, people would be saying it is the worst contract in Red Sox history for many many years.

Can you imagine in 2030, When Mookie is 37, likely hitting far below what is is doing now and maybe can't even play the field, and he has 3 more seasons at about $33M per and then 12 years and $115M deferred?

I am willing to bet that the Dodgers end up trading him before the end of his contract, eating substantial money as part of the trade.  The risk is just too high for this type of contract.  I cannot fault the Red Sox for not getting tied up in this.

I could be totally wrong, but it looks like the deferred money is part of that $365M contract, not in addition to. There is $255M in yearly cash through 2032 and then another $120M through 2044 (which strangely adds up to $375M, not $365M). I can see how you may have come to that based on the way the numbers are presented, but I think it is basically a way to help keep their luxury tax numbers lower by paying him less now. You do have to admit that it is kind-of hilarious that he will be making $11M in 2044.

Yeah, this is the Bobby Bonilla method. 

Deferred money generally is to the benefit of the team, not the player.  $11 million in 2044 is worth way less than $11 million in 2022.

As for the "risk"...  I don't see a lot of risk when Fenway essentially mints money.  The Dodgers certainly aren't letting spending hold them back.

Who benefits from “deferred” money all depends on what interest rate you’re using to calculate the deferred payouts.  In the case of Bonilla, the 8% guaranteed annual interest he received has outperformed the S&P 500 since his deferred payout was agreed to, and so it was to the benefit of the player.  I don’t know the details about Betts, but if they’re deferring $11 million until some period in the future, it again depends on the interest rate they’ve agreed to over that period.  Or if he’s just getting a flat $11 million, interest included, it depends what he alternatively could have received had he not deferred money (presumably an amount less than $11 million).

Re: Red Sox 2022
« Reply #51 on: June 19, 2022, 12:46:16 PM »

Offline Phantom255x

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So in other non-basketball news, at least the Red Sox dug themselves out of the 11-20 hole they found themselves in around early May and are now 35-31. They are currently still out of the wild card picture but only barely. Only about 3 games separate the group of Toronto, Tampa, Boston and Cleveland and those 4 teams will battle for 3 wild card spots.

I personally think Cleveland could slip later in the summer anyways so as long as Boston keeps it up, we should see some October baseball here again (or on the road, depending where they finish seedings-wise and in terms of WC number).

But I'm just happy we have meaningful baseball this summer. It would suck if the Sox were still very bad and this summer was basically a wash.
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Re: Red Sox 2022
« Reply #52 on: June 19, 2022, 06:34:36 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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Just hope they pay Rafy. I don't want to see one of the best hitters in baseball get Mookied away for mediocre talent once again. Pay the man.

Re: Red Sox 2022
« Reply #53 on: June 19, 2022, 08:53:47 PM »

Offline Phantom255x

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Just hope they pay Rafy. I don't want to see one of the best hitters in baseball get Mookied away for mediocre talent once again. Pay the man.

Obviously true, but it's not just him they will have A TON of decisions to make soon. JD, Eovaldi, Enrique, Bogaerts, Vazquez, Wacha, etc. all become FA's after this season. I know the focus is on Devers and Bogaerts which is fair, but a lot of these other guys are also very key contributors for their positions and if the Sox just let them walk, then they better have a Plan B or a bunch of capable replacements for them too.
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Re: Red Sox 2022
« Reply #54 on: June 19, 2022, 09:15:10 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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Just hope they pay Rafy. I don't want to see one of the best hitters in baseball get Mookied away for mediocre talent once again. Pay the man.

Obviously true, but it's not just him they will have A TON of decisions to make soon. JD, Eovaldi, Enrique, Bogaerts, Vazquez, Wacha, etc. all become FA's after this season. I know the focus is on Devers and Bogaerts which is fair, but a lot of these other guys are also very key contributors for their positions and if the Sox just let them walk, then they better have a Plan B or a bunch of capable replacements for them too.
You lose Devers and all those other guys won't matter. Pay Rafy. As for Bogaerts, if he signs, great, if not, that's one of the reasons why they signed Story. You move Story to his more natural position and bring up one of the kids or take all that savings and sign a free agent 2nd baseman for a year or so until one of the kids are ready

Re: Red Sox 2022
« Reply #55 on: June 26, 2022, 05:22:54 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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Red Sox are on a 29-10 run and have rocketed up to the 2nd spot in the AL East, the 3rd best record in the American League and to the top of the wild card race, 1-1/2 games ahead of Toronto and Tampa.

A very 2022 Celtic like turnaround.

Re: Red Sox 2022
« Reply #56 on: June 26, 2022, 05:48:26 PM »

Offline Celtics2021

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Red Sox are on a 29-10 run and have rocketed up to the 2nd spot in the AL East, the 3rd best record in the American League and to the top of the wild card race, 1-1/2 games ahead of Toronto and Tampa.

A very 2022 Celtic like turnaround.

I just made a purchase at Jordan’s Furniture, so I need the Sox to win the Series in a sweep!  They’ve got a ways to go, but I think this team has it in them!

I don't care about the Sox or baseball, but I do want you to get free furniture, so Go Red Sox!

Thanks!  Made the purchase Wednesday and they’re undefeated since then, so if this continues, you’re welcome Sox fans!

28-9 since I made my purchase.  Keep it up!

Re: Red Sox 2022
« Reply #57 on: June 26, 2022, 07:11:01 PM »

Offline W8ting2McHale

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Red Sox are on a 29-10 run and have rocketed up to the 2nd spot in the AL East, the 3rd best record in the American League and to the top of the wild card race, 1-1/2 games ahead of Toronto and Tampa.

A very 2022 Celtic like turnaround.

The Red Sox started cold, but they’re playing as well as the Yankees since over the past 40 games.

Re: Red Sox 2022
« Reply #58 on: June 26, 2022, 07:15:09 PM »

Offline rocknrollforyoursoul

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Red Sox are on a 29-10 run and have rocketed up to the 2nd spot in the AL East, the 3rd best record in the American League and to the top of the wild card race, 1-1/2 games ahead of Toronto and Tampa.

A very 2022 Celtic like turnaround.

The Red Sox started cold, but they’re playing as well as the Yankees since over the past 40 games.

Still a lot of questions for me, though, with this team: Will Pivetta and Wacha hold up this well for a whole season? Can the bullpen—mostly made up of castoffs—perform well over the long haul? Will Sale and Paxton be able to contribute anything?

And I hope they don't end up like the 2022 Celtics: "close but no cigar." Not sure I can take another one of those this year.

But they certainly are playing well these days, and I appreciate that.
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Re: Red Sox 2022
« Reply #59 on: July 14, 2022, 02:25:41 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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Big Papi, David Ortiz echoing what I've been saying for quite some time: Pay Rafael Devers and make him a Red Sox player for a very long time

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/34243347/david-ortiz-says-boston-red-sox-keep-rafael-devers-long-term-deal-touts-all-star-3b-face-organization

Quote
David Ortiz has touted the talents of Rafael Devers for a few years now, and if it's up to the new Hall of Famer, the star third baseman will remain with the Boston Red Sox for a very long time.

"As a fan, watching the game, you always expect him to come through," Ortiz said Thursday in advance of next week's Hall of Fame induction ceremonies in Cooperstown, New York. "I hope the Red Sox make sense about the decision they have to make about him.

"We've got to keep Devers around. It's the face of that organization, as of right now. Nobody can argue that."

Devers has one year of arbitration eligibility left after this season before becoming eligible for free agency. If Devers and his representatives are unable to agree to a long-term contract with the Red Sox, the two-time All-Star could become a trade candidate, following in the footsteps of former Red Sox MVP Mookie Betts.

Please, BoSox management, do not "Mookie Betts" Devers. Pay the man.