Author Topic: NFL Off-season 2022  (Read 70373 times)

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Re: NFL Off-season 2022
« Reply #570 on: August 10, 2022, 01:55:55 PM »

Offline johnnygreen

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Watson settled with 20 out of the 24 lawsuits filed against him. I'm guessing the 4 women that testified for the NFL, were the women that didn't settle. Could it be, these women had an axe to grind because their payout wasn't to their liking?

Re: NFL Off-season 2022
« Reply #571 on: August 10, 2022, 01:59:26 PM »

Online Moranis

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Can someone remind what punishment the NFL handed down on Robert Kraft for the massage parlor investigation.

None.

Of course, Robert Kraft isn't accused of sexually assaulting four women, either.

Certainly, but Kraft still warranted more punishment than he received for harming the NFL’s reputation.

I don't disagree, but that stuff gets tricky.  If there's no complaining witness, the tape is destroyed, and Kraft doesn't cooperate, what evidence is there to make a factual finding (a precursor of any punishment)?

So the police had videos of Kraft paying for sex acts at the massage parlor on consecutive days, but the judge ruled it to be inadmissible and then they were destroyed. I don't see how that doesn't damage the NFL's image and he should have been punished regardless.

For what conduct, that is proven how?

For repeatedly visiting a massage parlor that was involved in and closed down for sex trafficking. Kraft may not have been found guilty, but he was still involved in the police sting at the location. He apologized for being part of the investigation. I don't see how that doesn't make the league look terrible.


CNN
 —
New England Patriots owner Robert Kraft publicly broke his silence for the first time since charges of soliciting prostitution were brought against him in Florida.

“I am truly sorry,” Kraft said in a statement Saturday. “I know I have hurt and disappointed my family, my close friends, my co-workers, our fans and many others who rightfully hold me to a higher standard.”

Kraft, 77, was charged with two misdemeanor counts of soliciting prostitution last month. He was among the more than 100 people who were linked to several central Florida day spas and massage parlors suspected of being used for prostitution and targeted by law enforcement during a months-long investigation.


There needs to be proof of misconduct to punish. 

What if all of those media reports turned out to be based upon a police officer's lie?

If the NFL could see the tape, I'd agree with you, but it can't because a judge had it destroyed.  So, the proof that a arbitrator would rely upon to find that Kraft did something wrong is...  ?  Negative publicity is punishable, but only if that negative publicity is based upon proven negative conduct.

An arbitrator ruled that it was unfair to Watson to punish him beyond six games, because he couldn't have possibly known that sexually assaulting four women was prohibited conduct.  What would a similar arbitrator find if Kraft was fined $2 million and lost draft picks because there's proof he entered a massage parlor?  Because, that's about as much proof as the NFL had without the tape and without cooperating witnesses.
I don't think you actually need to have criminal conduct though.  Kraft's actions embarrassed the league.  "I expect to be judged not by my words, but by my actions. And through those actions, I hope to regain your confidence and respect.”  I mean if he didn't place the league in a negative light, what was he apologizing for and why does he have to regain confidence and respect?  The league simply puts out a report that says Kraft's actions have tarnished the image of the league so we've suspended and fined him.  Not that hard.
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Re: NFL Off-season 2022
« Reply #572 on: August 10, 2022, 02:02:40 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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Watson settled with 20 out of the 24 lawsuits filed against him. I'm guessing the 4 women that testified for the NFL, were the women that didn't settle. Could it be, these women had an axe to grind because their payout wasn't to their liking?

Sure, it could be.  It could also be that Watson is a scumbag sex offender.  I guess I'll never understand the mentality of "all the victims could be lying", but it's hypothetically possible.

After a full and fair hearing, the independent arbitrator found that four separate sexual assaults occurred. 


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Re: NFL Off-season 2022
« Reply #573 on: August 10, 2022, 02:06:36 PM »

Offline Goldstar88

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Can someone remind what punishment the NFL handed down on Robert Kraft for the massage parlor investigation.

None.

Of course, Robert Kraft isn't accused of sexually assaulting four women, either.

Certainly, but Kraft still warranted more punishment than he received for harming the NFL’s reputation.

I don't disagree, but that stuff gets tricky.  If there's no complaining witness, the tape is destroyed, and Kraft doesn't cooperate, what evidence is there to make a factual finding (a precursor of any punishment)?

So the police had videos of Kraft paying for sex acts at the massage parlor on consecutive days, but the judge ruled it to be inadmissible and then they were destroyed. I don't see how that doesn't damage the NFL's image and he should have been punished regardless.

For what conduct, that is proven how?

For repeatedly visiting a massage parlor that was involved in and closed down for sex trafficking. Kraft may not have been found guilty, but he was still involved in the police sting at the location. He apologized for being part of the investigation. I don't see how that doesn't make the league look terrible.


CNN
 —
New England Patriots owner Robert Kraft publicly broke his silence for the first time since charges of soliciting prostitution were brought against him in Florida.

“I am truly sorry,” Kraft said in a statement Saturday. “I know I have hurt and disappointed my family, my close friends, my co-workers, our fans and many others who rightfully hold me to a higher standard.”

Kraft, 77, was charged with two misdemeanor counts of soliciting prostitution last month. He was among the more than 100 people who were linked to several central Florida day spas and massage parlors suspected of being used for prostitution and targeted by law enforcement during a months-long investigation.


There needs to be proof of misconduct to punish. 

What if all of those media reports turned out to be based upon a police officer's lie?

If the NFL could see the tape, I'd agree with you, but it can't because a judge had it destroyed.  So, the proof that a arbitrator would rely upon to find that Kraft did something wrong is...  ?  Negative publicity is punishable, but only if that negative publicity is based upon proven negative conduct.

An arbitrator ruled that it was unfair to Watson to punish him beyond six games, because he couldn't have possibly known that sexually assaulting four women was prohibited conduct.  What would a similar arbitrator find if Kraft was fined $2 million and lost draft picks because there's proof he entered a massage parlor?  Because, that's about as much proof as the NFL had without the tape and without cooperating witnesses.

Is there proof of misconduct with Watson?
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Quote
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Re: NFL Off-season 2022
« Reply #574 on: August 10, 2022, 02:07:04 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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Can someone remind what punishment the NFL handed down on Robert Kraft for the massage parlor investigation.

None.

Of course, Robert Kraft isn't accused of sexually assaulting four women, either.

Certainly, but Kraft still warranted more punishment than he received for harming the NFL’s reputation.

I don't disagree, but that stuff gets tricky.  If there's no complaining witness, the tape is destroyed, and Kraft doesn't cooperate, what evidence is there to make a factual finding (a precursor of any punishment)?

So the police had videos of Kraft paying for sex acts at the massage parlor on consecutive days, but the judge ruled it to be inadmissible and then they were destroyed. I don't see how that doesn't damage the NFL's image and he should have been punished regardless.

For what conduct, that is proven how?

For repeatedly visiting a massage parlor that was involved in and closed down for sex trafficking. Kraft may not have been found guilty, but he was still involved in the police sting at the location. He apologized for being part of the investigation. I don't see how that doesn't make the league look terrible.


CNN
 —
New England Patriots owner Robert Kraft publicly broke his silence for the first time since charges of soliciting prostitution were brought against him in Florida.

“I am truly sorry,” Kraft said in a statement Saturday. “I know I have hurt and disappointed my family, my close friends, my co-workers, our fans and many others who rightfully hold me to a higher standard.”

Kraft, 77, was charged with two misdemeanor counts of soliciting prostitution last month. He was among the more than 100 people who were linked to several central Florida day spas and massage parlors suspected of being used for prostitution and targeted by law enforcement during a months-long investigation.


There needs to be proof of misconduct to punish. 

What if all of those media reports turned out to be based upon a police officer's lie?

If the NFL could see the tape, I'd agree with you, but it can't because a judge had it destroyed.  So, the proof that a arbitrator would rely upon to find that Kraft did something wrong is...  ?  Negative publicity is punishable, but only if that negative publicity is based upon proven negative conduct.

An arbitrator ruled that it was unfair to Watson to punish him beyond six games, because he couldn't have possibly known that sexually assaulting four women was prohibited conduct.  What would a similar arbitrator find if Kraft was fined $2 million and lost draft picks because there's proof he entered a massage parlor?  Because, that's about as much proof as the NFL had without the tape and without cooperating witnesses.
I don't think you actually need to have criminal conduct though.  Kraft's actions embarrassed the league.  "I expect to be judged not by my words, but by my actions. And through those actions, I hope to regain your confidence and respect.”  I mean if he didn't place the league in a negative light, what was he apologizing for and why does he have to regain confidence and respect?  The league simply puts out a report that says Kraft's actions have tarnished the image of the league so we've suspended and fined him.  Not that hard.

I didn't say criminal conduct:

Quote
Negative publicity is punishable, but only if that negative publicity is based upon proven negative conduct.

The NFL needs to establish that Kraft's actions -- rather than some outside intervenor -- caused the NFL's negative publicity.  Without a tape or cooperating witnesses, how do we know that Kraft did anything negative at all?

Yes, there was media uproar, but that media uproar needs to be based upon events that are factually proven to a preponderance standard.


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Re: NFL Off-season 2022
« Reply #575 on: August 10, 2022, 02:08:56 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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Can someone remind what punishment the NFL handed down on Robert Kraft for the massage parlor investigation.

None.

Of course, Robert Kraft isn't accused of sexually assaulting four women, either.

Certainly, but Kraft still warranted more punishment than he received for harming the NFL’s reputation.

I don't disagree, but that stuff gets tricky.  If there's no complaining witness, the tape is destroyed, and Kraft doesn't cooperate, what evidence is there to make a factual finding (a precursor of any punishment)?

So the police had videos of Kraft paying for sex acts at the massage parlor on consecutive days, but the judge ruled it to be inadmissible and then they were destroyed. I don't see how that doesn't damage the NFL's image and he should have been punished regardless.

For what conduct, that is proven how?

For repeatedly visiting a massage parlor that was involved in and closed down for sex trafficking. Kraft may not have been found guilty, but he was still involved in the police sting at the location. He apologized for being part of the investigation. I don't see how that doesn't make the league look terrible.


CNN
 —
New England Patriots owner Robert Kraft publicly broke his silence for the first time since charges of soliciting prostitution were brought against him in Florida.

“I am truly sorry,” Kraft said in a statement Saturday. “I know I have hurt and disappointed my family, my close friends, my co-workers, our fans and many others who rightfully hold me to a higher standard.”

Kraft, 77, was charged with two misdemeanor counts of soliciting prostitution last month. He was among the more than 100 people who were linked to several central Florida day spas and massage parlors suspected of being used for prostitution and targeted by law enforcement during a months-long investigation.


There needs to be proof of misconduct to punish. 

What if all of those media reports turned out to be based upon a police officer's lie?

If the NFL could see the tape, I'd agree with you, but it can't because a judge had it destroyed.  So, the proof that a arbitrator would rely upon to find that Kraft did something wrong is...  ?  Negative publicity is punishable, but only if that negative publicity is based upon proven negative conduct.

An arbitrator ruled that it was unfair to Watson to punish him beyond six games, because he couldn't have possibly known that sexually assaulting four women was prohibited conduct.  What would a similar arbitrator find if Kraft was fined $2 million and lost draft picks because there's proof he entered a massage parlor?  Because, that's about as much proof as the NFL had without the tape and without cooperating witnesses.

Is there proof of misconduct with Watson?

Is this a good faith question?  I mean, are you oblivious to the entire thread about the arbitrator's findings?

Yes, there's proof of misconduct, which was put in front of the arbitrator, who made a ruling that that misconduct happened based upon the evidence before her. 

In return for answering your question, I'll ask you one:  how can you weigh in on this topic at all, without knowing the particulars of what was factually found in Watson's case?  Before giving an opinion, don't you feel any obligation to educate yourself?


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Re: NFL Off-season 2022
« Reply #576 on: August 10, 2022, 02:34:02 PM »

Offline Goldstar88

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Can someone remind what punishment the NFL handed down on Robert Kraft for the massage parlor investigation.

None.

Of course, Robert Kraft isn't accused of sexually assaulting four women, either.

Certainly, but Kraft still warranted more punishment than he received for harming the NFL’s reputation.

I don't disagree, but that stuff gets tricky.  If there's no complaining witness, the tape is destroyed, and Kraft doesn't cooperate, what evidence is there to make a factual finding (a precursor of any punishment)?

So the police had videos of Kraft paying for sex acts at the massage parlor on consecutive days, but the judge ruled it to be inadmissible and then they were destroyed. I don't see how that doesn't damage the NFL's image and he should have been punished regardless.

For what conduct, that is proven how?

For repeatedly visiting a massage parlor that was involved in and closed down for sex trafficking. Kraft may not have been found guilty, but he was still involved in the police sting at the location. He apologized for being part of the investigation. I don't see how that doesn't make the league look terrible.


CNN
 —
New England Patriots owner Robert Kraft publicly broke his silence for the first time since charges of soliciting prostitution were brought against him in Florida.

“I am truly sorry,” Kraft said in a statement Saturday. “I know I have hurt and disappointed my family, my close friends, my co-workers, our fans and many others who rightfully hold me to a higher standard.”

Kraft, 77, was charged with two misdemeanor counts of soliciting prostitution last month. He was among the more than 100 people who were linked to several central Florida day spas and massage parlors suspected of being used for prostitution and targeted by law enforcement during a months-long investigation.


There needs to be proof of misconduct to punish. 

What if all of those media reports turned out to be based upon a police officer's lie?

If the NFL could see the tape, I'd agree with you, but it can't because a judge had it destroyed.  So, the proof that a arbitrator would rely upon to find that Kraft did something wrong is...  ?  Negative publicity is punishable, but only if that negative publicity is based upon proven negative conduct.

An arbitrator ruled that it was unfair to Watson to punish him beyond six games, because he couldn't have possibly known that sexually assaulting four women was prohibited conduct.  What would a similar arbitrator find if Kraft was fined $2 million and lost draft picks because there's proof he entered a massage parlor?  Because, that's about as much proof as the NFL had without the tape and without cooperating witnesses.

Is there proof of misconduct with Watson?

Is this a good faith question?  I mean, are you oblivious to the entire thread about the arbitrator's findings?

Yes, there's proof of misconduct, which was put in front of the arbitrator, who made a ruling that that misconduct happened based upon the evidence before her. 

In return for answering your question, I'll ask you one:  how can you weigh in on this topic at all, without knowing the particulars of what was factually found in Watson's case?  Before giving an opinion, don't you feel any obligation to educate yourself?

I haven't been following the story closely, that's why I asked.  Just recall that the grand jury declined to charge him. Will go back and read the other thread.
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Quote
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Re: NFL Off-season 2022
« Reply #577 on: August 10, 2022, 02:41:34 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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Can someone remind what punishment the NFL handed down on Robert Kraft for the massage parlor investigation.

None.

Of course, Robert Kraft isn't accused of sexually assaulting four women, either.

Certainly, but Kraft still warranted more punishment than he received for harming the NFL’s reputation.

I don't disagree, but that stuff gets tricky.  If there's no complaining witness, the tape is destroyed, and Kraft doesn't cooperate, what evidence is there to make a factual finding (a precursor of any punishment)?

So the police had videos of Kraft paying for sex acts at the massage parlor on consecutive days, but the judge ruled it to be inadmissible and then they were destroyed. I don't see how that doesn't damage the NFL's image and he should have been punished regardless.

For what conduct, that is proven how?

For repeatedly visiting a massage parlor that was involved in and closed down for sex trafficking. Kraft may not have been found guilty, but he was still involved in the police sting at the location. He apologized for being part of the investigation. I don't see how that doesn't make the league look terrible.


CNN
 —
New England Patriots owner Robert Kraft publicly broke his silence for the first time since charges of soliciting prostitution were brought against him in Florida.

“I am truly sorry,” Kraft said in a statement Saturday. “I know I have hurt and disappointed my family, my close friends, my co-workers, our fans and many others who rightfully hold me to a higher standard.”

Kraft, 77, was charged with two misdemeanor counts of soliciting prostitution last month. He was among the more than 100 people who were linked to several central Florida day spas and massage parlors suspected of being used for prostitution and targeted by law enforcement during a months-long investigation.


There needs to be proof of misconduct to punish. 

What if all of those media reports turned out to be based upon a police officer's lie?

If the NFL could see the tape, I'd agree with you, but it can't because a judge had it destroyed.  So, the proof that a arbitrator would rely upon to find that Kraft did something wrong is...  ?  Negative publicity is punishable, but only if that negative publicity is based upon proven negative conduct.

An arbitrator ruled that it was unfair to Watson to punish him beyond six games, because he couldn't have possibly known that sexually assaulting four women was prohibited conduct.  What would a similar arbitrator find if Kraft was fined $2 million and lost draft picks because there's proof he entered a massage parlor?  Because, that's about as much proof as the NFL had without the tape and without cooperating witnesses.

Is there proof of misconduct with Watson?

Is this a good faith question?  I mean, are you oblivious to the entire thread about the arbitrator's findings?

Yes, there's proof of misconduct, which was put in front of the arbitrator, who made a ruling that that misconduct happened based upon the evidence before her. 

In return for answering your question, I'll ask you one:  how can you weigh in on this topic at all, without knowing the particulars of what was factually found in Watson's case?  Before giving an opinion, don't you feel any obligation to educate yourself?

I haven't been following the story closely, that's why I asked.  Just recall that the grand jury declined to charge him. Will go back and read the other thread.

Here's the decision:

https://www.espn.com/pdf/2022/0801/watson.pdf

In terms of evidence against Watson, it starts with the last paragraph on Page 3.


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Re: NFL Off-season 2022
« Reply #578 on: August 11, 2022, 11:06:33 PM »

Online Moranis

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The Ravens beat the Titans tonight continuing the longest and strangest preseason win streak ever, which now sits at 21 straight preseason games.  I really don't understand how that is possible for a team to not lose a preseason game for over 5 seasons.  Just weird.  And it isn't like they play their starters as none of their skill position starters played in the game against the Titans.
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Re: NFL Off-season 2022
« Reply #579 on: August 12, 2022, 07:14:06 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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Serial sexual assaulter Watson playing right now. Just disgusting. I had some close coworkers that were browns fans so I had a soft spot for them, hope they go 0-16 now.

Re: NFL Off-season 2022
« Reply #580 on: August 12, 2022, 08:07:22 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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Serial sexual assaulter Watson playing right now. Just disgusting. I had some close coworkers that were browns fans so I had a soft spot for them, hope they go 0-16 now.

And then Watson gets reinstated in Game 17, takes a hit to the "groin", it gets infected and he develops Fournier's gangrene.


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Re: NFL Off-season 2022
« Reply #581 on: August 12, 2022, 10:56:06 PM »

Offline Phantom255x

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Wow the Jets are truly cursed

Wilson goes down with a knee injury and it’s feared it could be a torn ACL. MRI tomorrow but even if it’s not torn hopefully it could still mean he misses a good chunk of time  :(
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Re: NFL Off-season 2022
« Reply #582 on: August 18, 2022, 12:04:03 PM »

Online Moranis

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11 games, 5 million fine

His first game active will be against the Texans.
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Re: NFL Off-season 2022
« Reply #583 on: August 18, 2022, 12:07:02 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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11 games, 5 million fine

His first game active will be against the Texans.

Settlement or ruling?

Assuming it's a settlement, it probably makes some sense.  It certainly does for Watson, as there was real risk of him missing a full season.  The NFL, on the other hand, didn't want to risk its appeal being denied, or having the federal courts get involved.  This preserves Goodell's process, and the prior arbitrator's ruling won't be used as precedent.


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Re: NFL Off-season 2022
« Reply #584 on: August 18, 2022, 12:10:50 PM »

Online Moranis

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11 games, 5 million fine

His first game active will be against the Texans.

Settlement or ruling?

Assuming it's a settlement, it probably makes some sense.  It certainly does for Watson, as there was real risk of him missing a full season.  The NFL, on the other hand, didn't want to risk its appeal being denied, or having the federal courts get involved.  This preserves Goodell's process, and the prior arbitrator's ruling won't be used as precedent.
Yeah it was a settlement.
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