MLB owners vote for lockout

[Redz]

So do I understand correctly, the Universal DH is adopted but the Shift Ban will only be experimental and tested in Double A?

I think the DH rule change is good.  I don't enjoy watching pitchers bunt and the whole strategy aspect is overblown.  I say about time.

As to the shift, I don't think banning shifts will improve the game.  Hitters should be able to adjust.  If a hitter slaps a few singles or doubles down the opposite field line, the defense will adjust.  Base runners are excitement.  It doesn't matter how you get on base.

Sometimes in a game the smart play is to bring an outfielder in to add an additional infielder.  9th inning, man on third, tie game, that sort of situation.  Are you going to ban that too?

There's no shift ban in MLB in 2022, but I believe that the Commissioner can impose it in 2023 if he so chooses without further player input.

But seriously, a player can't defeat this strategy?

With Verlander on the mound?  It’s tough, and defeating it probably only gets you to 1st base.

I don't know about.  A well placed bunt and you might get to 2nd base just from the shear fact there is no one able to field the ball if you get it enough past the pitcher down the 3rd base line.

But even if you only get to 1st base, you still get to 1st base and what is wrong with that.

That's my thought.  Any MLB should be able to get to first base at least 75% of the time against a shift that severe.

The shift has been around for over a decade, and a generations of hitters has proven they can’t.  I’m surprised myself, but the shift is used more every year, and hitters have decided it’s in general not worth trying to beat.  My guess is because hitting a ball traveling at 95 mph is difficult enough, and accordingly fighting muscle memory trying to aim a certain direction doesn’t have the payoff we might think it will in the abstract.

Unable or unwilling?

Probably a mix of both.

Purposely trying to hit to opposite field is no joke.  Especially with major league pitching coming at you.  But I'm also sure they're are guys just unwilling also.

I've got to think that if these guys spent an hour a day during the offseason practicing bunting to third base, they could do it at a highly successful rate.

Do you think power hitters bunting is going to make the game more exciting?

It would punish and discourage extreme shifts like that, while also putting runners on base. As someone that likes to see teams putting together strings of hits... yeah, kind of.

Really?   So you are saying instead of a guy that can drive a ball and pick up two or a HR, we can have him bunt and maybe get on 1st?

That seems like the equivalent of force big time 3 point shooters into always shooting long twos.

why don't you set the ball on T for them too while you're at   

Why can other sports change the rules but not baseball?   


Why add the breakaway foul in the NBA?   It is good defensive strategy. 

Why change the hand checking rule?   Why add the charge line under the basket?  Why add the three point line?   Why add the shot clock?   Why widen the lane?   



The point is to make the game more exciting keep viewers.  And more hits makes the game more exciting.  More baserunners makes the game more exciting.

you're taking a huge leap from opposing a rule against shifts to "Why can other sports change the rules but not baseball?".  some rule changes can be improvements.  this one would not be.

if a player can't counter a defensive shift in baseball, too bad.  I could care less about whiny batters who are incapable of dealing with a gimmicky defensive move.  as for your baserunner argument, what was said before would address that -- bunting where the defense isn't.  easy base hit.  of course, batters don't seem to know how to do that either right along with hitting to the opposite field.   drop a few bunts for base hits and you'll see that shift change pretty quickly.

Bryce Harper did and they kept using the shift.

so let Bryce Harper keep dropping bunts.  have a guy hitting with a high enough average with no one on base because of that shift and the other team will stop shifting because letting a guy get on base .500 on the time on bunts due to a shift is a helluva lot less effective than letting him hit .275 without the shift.

i wonder what the percentage of successful bunts would be with an average to above-average bunter would be?  Would it be 50%?  I think that's a trade off defenses would be willing to make when facing a power hitter of Harper's caliber - especially since the bases are empty.

[Moranis]

Looks like the Freddie Freeman era in Atlanta has ended as the Braves traded for 1B Matt Olson today.  Olson is an Atlanta native, which probably takes some of the sting out for the fanbase, but Freeman was the heart and soul of the Braves over the last decade or so.

[greg683x]

So do I understand correctly, the Universal DH is adopted but the Shift Ban will only be experimental and tested in Double A?

I think the DH rule change is good.  I don't enjoy watching pitchers bunt and the whole strategy aspect is overblown.  I say about time.

As to the shift, I don't think banning shifts will improve the game.  Hitters should be able to adjust.  If a hitter slaps a few singles or doubles down the opposite field line, the defense will adjust.  Base runners are excitement.  It doesn't matter how you get on base.

Sometimes in a game the smart play is to bring an outfielder in to add an additional infielder.  9th inning, man on third, tie game, that sort of situation.  Are you going to ban that too?

There's no shift ban in MLB in 2022, but I believe that the Commissioner can impose it in 2023 if he so chooses without further player input.

But seriously, a player can't defeat this strategy?

With Verlander on the mound?  It’s tough, and defeating it probably only gets you to 1st base.

I don't know about.  A well placed bunt and you might get to 2nd base just from the shear fact there is no one able to field the ball if you get it enough past the pitcher down the 3rd base line.

But even if you only get to 1st base, you still get to 1st base and what is wrong with that.

That's my thought.  Any MLB should be able to get to first base at least 75% of the time against a shift that severe.

The shift has been around for over a decade, and a generations of hitters has proven they can’t.  I’m surprised myself, but the shift is used more every year, and hitters have decided it’s in general not worth trying to beat.  My guess is because hitting a ball traveling at 95 mph is difficult enough, and accordingly fighting muscle memory trying to aim a certain direction doesn’t have the payoff we might think it will in the abstract.

Unable or unwilling?

Probably a mix of both.

Purposely trying to hit to opposite field is no joke.  Especially with major league pitching coming at you.  But I'm also sure they're are guys just unwilling also.

I've got to think that if these guys spent an hour a day during the offseason practicing bunting to third base, they could do it at a highly successful rate.

Do you think power hitters bunting is going to make the game more exciting?

It would punish and discourage extreme shifts like that, while also putting runners on base. As someone that likes to see teams putting together strings of hits... yeah, kind of.

Really?   So you are saying instead of a guy that can drive a ball and pick up two or a HR, we can have him bunt and maybe get on 1st?

That seems like the equivalent of force big time 3 point shooters into always shooting long twos.

why don't you set the ball on T for them too while you're at   

Why can other sports change the rules but not baseball?   


Why add the breakaway foul in the NBA?   It is good defensive strategy. 

Why change the hand checking rule?   Why add the charge line under the basket?  Why add the three point line?   Why add the shot clock?   Why widen the lane?   



The point is to make the game more exciting keep viewers.  And more hits makes the game more exciting.  More baserunners makes the game more exciting.

Some of those comps are a far reach

The better NBA comparison is the Hack-a-Shaq strategy and the NBA has not implemented rules to prevent teams from doing this.

Shooting free throws is a basic fundamental skill that all basketball players should have, if a player has that big of a hole in their game the other team should be able to take advantage of it.

Shift to Baseball, being able to bunt, push the ball to the opposite field are basic fundamental skills that any major league hitter should have, if they can’t do it, why shouldnt the other team use it to their advantage?

So much of baseball is about stats and playing the percentages, strategy, etc.  why start taking away from it??

[slamtheking]

So do I understand correctly, the Universal DH is adopted but the Shift Ban will only be experimental and tested in Double A?

I think the DH rule change is good.  I don't enjoy watching pitchers bunt and the whole strategy aspect is overblown.  I say about time.

As to the shift, I don't think banning shifts will improve the game.  Hitters should be able to adjust.  If a hitter slaps a few singles or doubles down the opposite field line, the defense will adjust.  Base runners are excitement.  It doesn't matter how you get on base.

Sometimes in a game the smart play is to bring an outfielder in to add an additional infielder.  9th inning, man on third, tie game, that sort of situation.  Are you going to ban that too?

There's no shift ban in MLB in 2022, but I believe that the Commissioner can impose it in 2023 if he so chooses without further player input.

But seriously, a player can't defeat this strategy?

With Verlander on the mound?  It’s tough, and defeating it probably only gets you to 1st base.

I don't know about.  A well placed bunt and you might get to 2nd base just from the shear fact there is no one able to field the ball if you get it enough past the pitcher down the 3rd base line.

But even if you only get to 1st base, you still get to 1st base and what is wrong with that.

That's my thought.  Any MLB should be able to get to first base at least 75% of the time against a shift that severe.

The shift has been around for over a decade, and a generations of hitters has proven they can’t.  I’m surprised myself, but the shift is used more every year, and hitters have decided it’s in general not worth trying to beat.  My guess is because hitting a ball traveling at 95 mph is difficult enough, and accordingly fighting muscle memory trying to aim a certain direction doesn’t have the payoff we might think it will in the abstract.

Unable or unwilling?

Probably a mix of both.

Purposely trying to hit to opposite field is no joke.  Especially with major league pitching coming at you.  But I'm also sure they're are guys just unwilling also.

I've got to think that if these guys spent an hour a day during the offseason practicing bunting to third base, they could do it at a highly successful rate.

Do you think power hitters bunting is going to make the game more exciting?

It would punish and discourage extreme shifts like that, while also putting runners on base. As someone that likes to see teams putting together strings of hits... yeah, kind of.

Really?   So you are saying instead of a guy that can drive a ball and pick up two or a HR, we can have him bunt and maybe get on 1st?

That seems like the equivalent of force big time 3 point shooters into always shooting long twos.

why don't you set the ball on T for them too while you're at   

Why can other sports change the rules but not baseball?   


Why add the breakaway foul in the NBA?   It is good defensive strategy. 

Why change the hand checking rule?   Why add the charge line under the basket?  Why add the three point line?   Why add the shot clock?   Why widen the lane?   



The point is to make the game more exciting keep viewers.  And more hits makes the game more exciting.  More baserunners makes the game more exciting.

you're taking a huge leap from opposing a rule against shifts to "Why can other sports change the rules but not baseball?".  some rule changes can be improvements.  this one would not be.

if a player can't counter a defensive shift in baseball, too bad.  I could care less about whiny batters who are incapable of dealing with a gimmicky defensive move.  as for your baserunner argument, what was said before would address that -- bunting where the defense isn't.  easy base hit.  of course, batters don't seem to know how to do that either right along with hitting to the opposite field.   drop a few bunts for base hits and you'll see that shift change pretty quickly.

Bryce Harper did and they kept using the shift.

so let Bryce Harper keep dropping bunts.  have a guy hitting with a high enough average with no one on base because of that shift and the other team will stop shifting because letting a guy get on base .500 on the time on bunts due to a shift is a helluva lot less effective than letting him hit .275 without the shift.

i wonder what the percentage of successful bunts would be with an average to above-average bunter would be?  Would it be 50%?  I think that's a trade off defenses would be willing to make when facing a power hitter of Harper's caliber - especially since the bases are empty.

I doubt that but let's see Harper drop some bunts down and what happens from there.

[celticsclay]

So do I understand correctly, the Universal DH is adopted but the Shift Ban will only be experimental and tested in Double A?

I think the DH rule change is good.  I don't enjoy watching pitchers bunt and the whole strategy aspect is overblown.  I say about time.

As to the shift, I don't think banning shifts will improve the game.  Hitters should be able to adjust.  If a hitter slaps a few singles or doubles down the opposite field line, the defense will adjust.  Base runners are excitement.  It doesn't matter how you get on base.

Sometimes in a game the smart play is to bring an outfielder in to add an additional infielder.  9th inning, man on third, tie game, that sort of situation.  Are you going to ban that too?

There's no shift ban in MLB in 2022, but I believe that the Commissioner can impose it in 2023 if he so chooses without further player input.

But seriously, a player can't defeat this strategy?

With Verlander on the mound?  It’s tough, and defeating it probably only gets you to 1st base.

I don't know about.  A well placed bunt and you might get to 2nd base just from the shear fact there is no one able to field the ball if you get it enough past the pitcher down the 3rd base line.

But even if you only get to 1st base, you still get to 1st base and what is wrong with that.

That's my thought.  Any MLB should be able to get to first base at least 75% of the time against a shift that severe.

The shift has been around for over a decade, and a generations of hitters has proven they can’t.  I’m surprised myself, but the shift is used more every year, and hitters have decided it’s in general not worth trying to beat.  My guess is because hitting a ball traveling at 95 mph is difficult enough, and accordingly fighting muscle memory trying to aim a certain direction doesn’t have the payoff we might think it will in the abstract.

Unable or unwilling?

Probably a mix of both.

Purposely trying to hit to opposite field is no joke.  Especially with major league pitching coming at you.  But I'm also sure they're are guys just unwilling also.

I've got to think that if these guys spent an hour a day during the offseason practicing bunting to third base, they could do it at a highly successful rate.

Do you think power hitters bunting is going to make the game more exciting?

It would punish and discourage extreme shifts like that, while also putting runners on base. As someone that likes to see teams putting together strings of hits... yeah, kind of.

Really?   So you are saying instead of a guy that can drive a ball and pick up two or a HR, we can have him bunt and maybe get on 1st?

That seems like the equivalent of force big time 3 point shooters into always shooting long twos.

why don't you set the ball on T for them too while you're at   

Why can other sports change the rules but not baseball?   


Why add the breakaway foul in the NBA?   It is good defensive strategy. 

Why change the hand checking rule?   Why add the charge line under the basket?  Why add the three point line?   Why add the shot clock?   Why widen the lane?   



The point is to make the game more exciting keep viewers.  And more hits makes the game more exciting.  More baserunners makes the game more exciting.

Some of those comps are a far reach

The better NBA comparison is the Hack-a-Shaq strategy and the NBA has not implemented rules to prevent teams from doing this.

Shooting free throws is a basic fundamental skill that all basketball players should have, if a player has that big of a hole in their game the other team should be able to take advantage of it.

Shift to Baseball, being able to bunt, push the ball to the opposite field are basic fundamental skills that any major league hitter should have, if they can’t do it, why shouldnt the other team use it to their advantage?

So much of baseball is about stats and playing the percentages, strategy, etc.  why start taking away from it??

The nba literally invented a rule to stop hack a Shaq right? Or am I getting confused. Seemed like they made a change in the last few minutes when it was happening to Shaq.

Looked this up. The nba did change the rules to stop hack a Shaq. Kind of funny you used this as your example.

[gouki88]

So do I understand correctly, the Universal DH is adopted but the Shift Ban will only be experimental and tested in Double A?

I think the DH rule change is good.  I don't enjoy watching pitchers bunt and the whole strategy aspect is overblown.  I say about time.

As to the shift, I don't think banning shifts will improve the game.  Hitters should be able to adjust.  If a hitter slaps a few singles or doubles down the opposite field line, the defense will adjust.  Base runners are excitement.  It doesn't matter how you get on base.

Sometimes in a game the smart play is to bring an outfielder in to add an additional infielder.  9th inning, man on third, tie game, that sort of situation.  Are you going to ban that too?

There's no shift ban in MLB in 2022, but I believe that the Commissioner can impose it in 2023 if he so chooses without further player input.

But seriously, a player can't defeat this strategy?

With Verlander on the mound?  It’s tough, and defeating it probably only gets you to 1st base.

I don't know about.  A well placed bunt and you might get to 2nd base just from the shear fact there is no one able to field the ball if you get it enough past the pitcher down the 3rd base line.

But even if you only get to 1st base, you still get to 1st base and what is wrong with that.

That's my thought.  Any MLB should be able to get to first base at least 75% of the time against a shift that severe.

The shift has been around for over a decade, and a generations of hitters has proven they can’t.  I’m surprised myself, but the shift is used more every year, and hitters have decided it’s in general not worth trying to beat.  My guess is because hitting a ball traveling at 95 mph is difficult enough, and accordingly fighting muscle memory trying to aim a certain direction doesn’t have the payoff we might think it will in the abstract.

Unable or unwilling?

Probably a mix of both.

Purposely trying to hit to opposite field is no joke.  Especially with major league pitching coming at you.  But I'm also sure they're are guys just unwilling also.

I've got to think that if these guys spent an hour a day during the offseason practicing bunting to third base, they could do it at a highly successful rate.

Do you think power hitters bunting is going to make the game more exciting?

It would punish and discourage extreme shifts like that, while also putting runners on base. As someone that likes to see teams putting together strings of hits... yeah, kind of.

Really?   So you are saying instead of a guy that can drive a ball and pick up two or a HR, we can have him bunt and maybe get on 1st?

That seems like the equivalent of force big time 3 point shooters into always shooting long twos.

why don't you set the ball on T for them too while you're at   

Why can other sports change the rules but not baseball?   


Why add the breakaway foul in the NBA?   It is good defensive strategy. 

Why change the hand checking rule?   Why add the charge line under the basket?  Why add the three point line?   Why add the shot clock?   Why widen the lane?   



The point is to make the game more exciting keep viewers.  And more hits makes the game more exciting.  More baserunners makes the game more exciting.

Some of those comps are a far reach

The better NBA comparison is the Hack-a-Shaq strategy and the NBA has not implemented rules to prevent teams from doing this.

Shooting free throws is a basic fundamental skill that all basketball players should have, if a player has that big of a hole in their game the other team should be able to take advantage of it.

Shift to Baseball, being able to bunt, push the ball to the opposite field are basic fundamental skills that any major league hitter should have, if they can’t do it, why shouldnt the other team use it to their advantage?

So much of baseball is about stats and playing the percentages, strategy, etc.  why start taking away from it??

The nba literally invented a rule to stop hack a Shaq right? Or am I getting confused. Seemed like they made a change in the last few minutes when it was happening to Shaq.

Looked this up. The nba did change the rules to stop hack a Shaq. Kind of funny you used this as your example.

Coming from a place of knowing next to nothing about baseball, I came to this thread to make this comment too, lol.

The NBA addressed the intentional fouling of poor free throw shooters pretty definitively.

[greg683x]

So do I understand correctly, the Universal DH is adopted but the Shift Ban will only be experimental and tested in Double A?

I think the DH rule change is good.  I don't enjoy watching pitchers bunt and the whole strategy aspect is overblown.  I say about time.

As to the shift, I don't think banning shifts will improve the game.  Hitters should be able to adjust.  If a hitter slaps a few singles or doubles down the opposite field line, the defense will adjust.  Base runners are excitement.  It doesn't matter how you get on base.

Sometimes in a game the smart play is to bring an outfielder in to add an additional infielder.  9th inning, man on third, tie game, that sort of situation.  Are you going to ban that too?

There's no shift ban in MLB in 2022, but I believe that the Commissioner can impose it in 2023 if he so chooses without further player input.

But seriously, a player can't defeat this strategy?

With Verlander on the mound?  It’s tough, and defeating it probably only gets you to 1st base.

I don't know about.  A well placed bunt and you might get to 2nd base just from the shear fact there is no one able to field the ball if you get it enough past the pitcher down the 3rd base line.

But even if you only get to 1st base, you still get to 1st base and what is wrong with that.

That's my thought.  Any MLB should be able to get to first base at least 75% of the time against a shift that severe.

The shift has been around for over a decade, and a generations of hitters has proven they can’t.  I’m surprised myself, but the shift is used more every year, and hitters have decided it’s in general not worth trying to beat.  My guess is because hitting a ball traveling at 95 mph is difficult enough, and accordingly fighting muscle memory trying to aim a certain direction doesn’t have the payoff we might think it will in the abstract.

Unable or unwilling?

Probably a mix of both.

Purposely trying to hit to opposite field is no joke.  Especially with major league pitching coming at you.  But I'm also sure they're are guys just unwilling also.

I've got to think that if these guys spent an hour a day during the offseason practicing bunting to third base, they could do it at a highly successful rate.

Do you think power hitters bunting is going to make the game more exciting?

It would punish and discourage extreme shifts like that, while also putting runners on base. As someone that likes to see teams putting together strings of hits... yeah, kind of.

Really?   So you are saying instead of a guy that can drive a ball and pick up two or a HR, we can have him bunt and maybe get on 1st?

That seems like the equivalent of force big time 3 point shooters into always shooting long twos.

why don't you set the ball on T for them too while you're at   

Why can other sports change the rules but not baseball?   


Why add the breakaway foul in the NBA?   It is good defensive strategy. 

Why change the hand checking rule?   Why add the charge line under the basket?  Why add the three point line?   Why add the shot clock?   Why widen the lane?   



The point is to make the game more exciting keep viewers.  And more hits makes the game more exciting.  More baserunners makes the game more exciting.

Some of those comps are a far reach

The better NBA comparison is the Hack-a-Shaq strategy and the NBA has not implemented rules to prevent teams from doing this.

Shooting free throws is a basic fundamental skill that all basketball players should have, if a player has that big of a hole in their game the other team should be able to take advantage of it.

Shift to Baseball, being able to bunt, push the ball to the opposite field are basic fundamental skills that any major league hitter should have, if they can’t do it, why shouldnt the other team use it to their advantage?

So much of baseball is about stats and playing the percentages, strategy, etc.  why start taking away from it??

The nba literally invented a rule to stop hack a Shaq right? Or am I getting confused. Seemed like they made a change in the last few minutes when it was happening to Shaq.

Looked this up. The nba did change the rules to stop hack a Shaq. Kind of funny you used this as your example.

Wow.  I’ll happily wear the dunce cap for this one.  I never knew the NBA actually implemented that rule change, I thought it was something always talked about but never actually went through with.

Doesn’t change the way I feel about baseball or basketball for that matter.  Why create handicaps for less talented players in a professional sport

[Celtics2021]

So do I understand correctly, the Universal DH is adopted but the Shift Ban will only be experimental and tested in Double A?

I think the DH rule change is good.  I don't enjoy watching pitchers bunt and the whole strategy aspect is overblown.  I say about time.

As to the shift, I don't think banning shifts will improve the game.  Hitters should be able to adjust.  If a hitter slaps a few singles or doubles down the opposite field line, the defense will adjust.  Base runners are excitement.  It doesn't matter how you get on base.

Sometimes in a game the smart play is to bring an outfielder in to add an additional infielder.  9th inning, man on third, tie game, that sort of situation.  Are you going to ban that too?

There's no shift ban in MLB in 2022, but I believe that the Commissioner can impose it in 2023 if he so chooses without further player input.

But seriously, a player can't defeat this strategy?

With Verlander on the mound?  It’s tough, and defeating it probably only gets you to 1st base.

I don't know about.  A well placed bunt and you might get to 2nd base just from the shear fact there is no one able to field the ball if you get it enough past the pitcher down the 3rd base line.

But even if you only get to 1st base, you still get to 1st base and what is wrong with that.

That's my thought.  Any MLB should be able to get to first base at least 75% of the time against a shift that severe.

The shift has been around for over a decade, and a generations of hitters has proven they can’t.  I’m surprised myself, but the shift is used more every year, and hitters have decided it’s in general not worth trying to beat.  My guess is because hitting a ball traveling at 95 mph is difficult enough, and accordingly fighting muscle memory trying to aim a certain direction doesn’t have the payoff we might think it will in the abstract.

Unable or unwilling?

Probably a mix of both.

Purposely trying to hit to opposite field is no joke.  Especially with major league pitching coming at you.  But I'm also sure they're are guys just unwilling also.

I've got to think that if these guys spent an hour a day during the offseason practicing bunting to third base, they could do it at a highly successful rate.

Do you think power hitters bunting is going to make the game more exciting?

It would punish and discourage extreme shifts like that, while also putting runners on base. As someone that likes to see teams putting together strings of hits... yeah, kind of.

Really?   So you are saying instead of a guy that can drive a ball and pick up two or a HR, we can have him bunt and maybe get on 1st?

That seems like the equivalent of force big time 3 point shooters into always shooting long twos.

why don't you set the ball on T for them too while you're at   

Why can other sports change the rules but not baseball?   


Why add the breakaway foul in the NBA?   It is good defensive strategy. 

Why change the hand checking rule?   Why add the charge line under the basket?  Why add the three point line?   Why add the shot clock?   Why widen the lane?   



The point is to make the game more exciting keep viewers.  And more hits makes the game more exciting.  More baserunners makes the game more exciting.

Some of those comps are a far reach

The better NBA comparison is the Hack-a-Shaq strategy and the NBA has not implemented rules to prevent teams from doing this.

Shooting free throws is a basic fundamental skill that all basketball players should have, if a player has that big of a hole in their game the other team should be able to take advantage of it.

Shift to Baseball, being able to bunt, push the ball to the opposite field are basic fundamental skills that any major league hitter should have, if they can’t do it, why shouldnt the other team use it to their advantage?

So much of baseball is about stats and playing the percentages, strategy, etc.  why start taking away from it??

The nba literally invented a rule to stop hack a Shaq right? Or am I getting confused. Seemed like they made a change in the last few minutes when it was happening to Shaq.

Looked this up. The nba did change the rules to stop hack a Shaq. Kind of funny you used this as your example.

Wow.  I’ll happily wear the dunce cap for this one.  I never knew the NBA actually implemented that rule change, I thought it was something always talked about but never actually went through with.

Doesn’t change the way I feel about baseball or basketball for that matter.  Why create handicaps for less talented players in a professional sport

Because these "less-talented" players are more talented at the things fans want to see more of (power-hitting and dunks), and less talented at the things fans want to see less of (bunts and free throws).  The Hack-a-Shaq strategy was abused, and the NBA changed it quickly, to their benefit.  Shifts have helped to make baseball games more boring, and over a decade-plus baseball has shed fans, all in the name of "tradition."

[Silas]

This discussion reminds me of the Alcindor Rule.  Way back in '67, NCAA officials felt Lew Alcindor (Jabbar) playing for UCLA, would be unstoppable, so they changed the rules to not allow dunking in college games.  The Alcindor rule was from 1967 to 1975, when it was finally rescinded, and players were allowed to dunk again.  Talk about screwing a player with an unfair rule.

[greg683x]

So do I understand correctly, the Universal DH is adopted but the Shift Ban will only be experimental and tested in Double A?

I think the DH rule change is good.  I don't enjoy watching pitchers bunt and the whole strategy aspect is overblown.  I say about time.

As to the shift, I don't think banning shifts will improve the game.  Hitters should be able to adjust.  If a hitter slaps a few singles or doubles down the opposite field line, the defense will adjust.  Base runners are excitement.  It doesn't matter how you get on base.

Sometimes in a game the smart play is to bring an outfielder in to add an additional infielder.  9th inning, man on third, tie game, that sort of situation.  Are you going to ban that too?

There's no shift ban in MLB in 2022, but I believe that the Commissioner can impose it in 2023 if he so chooses without further player input.

But seriously, a player can't defeat this strategy?

With Verlander on the mound?  It’s tough, and defeating it probably only gets you to 1st base.

I don't know about.  A well placed bunt and you might get to 2nd base just from the shear fact there is no one able to field the ball if you get it enough past the pitcher down the 3rd base line.

But even if you only get to 1st base, you still get to 1st base and what is wrong with that.

That's my thought.  Any MLB should be able to get to first base at least 75% of the time against a shift that severe.

The shift has been around for over a decade, and a generations of hitters has proven they can’t.  I’m surprised myself, but the shift is used more every year, and hitters have decided it’s in general not worth trying to beat.  My guess is because hitting a ball traveling at 95 mph is difficult enough, and accordingly fighting muscle memory trying to aim a certain direction doesn’t have the payoff we might think it will in the abstract.

Unable or unwilling?

Probably a mix of both.

Purposely trying to hit to opposite field is no joke.  Especially with major league pitching coming at you.  But I'm also sure they're are guys just unwilling also.

I've got to think that if these guys spent an hour a day during the offseason practicing bunting to third base, they could do it at a highly successful rate.

Do you think power hitters bunting is going to make the game more exciting?

It would punish and discourage extreme shifts like that, while also putting runners on base. As someone that likes to see teams putting together strings of hits... yeah, kind of.

Really?   So you are saying instead of a guy that can drive a ball and pick up two or a HR, we can have him bunt and maybe get on 1st?

That seems like the equivalent of force big time 3 point shooters into always shooting long twos.

why don't you set the ball on T for them too while you're at   

Why can other sports change the rules but not baseball?   


Why add the breakaway foul in the NBA?   It is good defensive strategy. 

Why change the hand checking rule?   Why add the charge line under the basket?  Why add the three point line?   Why add the shot clock?   Why widen the lane?   



The point is to make the game more exciting keep viewers.  And more hits makes the game more exciting.  More baserunners makes the game more exciting.

Some of those comps are a far reach

The better NBA comparison is the Hack-a-Shaq strategy and the NBA has not implemented rules to prevent teams from doing this.

Shooting free throws is a basic fundamental skill that all basketball players should have, if a player has that big of a hole in their game the other team should be able to take advantage of it.

Shift to Baseball, being able to bunt, push the ball to the opposite field are basic fundamental skills that any major league hitter should have, if they can’t do it, why shouldnt the other team use it to their advantage?

So much of baseball is about stats and playing the percentages, strategy, etc.  why start taking away from it??

The nba literally invented a rule to stop hack a Shaq right? Or am I getting confused. Seemed like they made a change in the last few minutes when it was happening to Shaq.

Looked this up. The nba did change the rules to stop hack a Shaq. Kind of funny you used this as your example.

Wow.  I’ll happily wear the dunce cap for this one.  I never knew the NBA actually implemented that rule change, I thought it was something always talked about but never actually went through with.

Doesn’t change the way I feel about baseball or basketball for that matter.  Why create handicaps for less talented players in a professional sport

Because these "less-talented" players are more talented at the things fans want to see more of (power-hitting and dunks), and less talented at the things fans want to see less of (bunts and free throws).  The Hack-a-Shaq strategy was abused, and the NBA changed it quickly, to their benefit.  Shifts have helped to make baseball games more boring, and over a decade-plus baseball has shed fans, all in the name of "tradition."

While I don’t completely disagree, but blaming tradition as the sole reason for baseball shedding fans is a bit much.  I feel like there’s a few things higher on the list of decisions made by baseball that has resulted in turning away fans.

[Roy H.]

Major League Baseball and the MLB Players Association have agreed to rule tweaks that will expand rosters, place an automatic runner on second base during extra innings and allow pitchers to remain in the lineup after they have been replaced on the mound, an industry source confirmed to ESPN on Tuesday.

The last of those changes will make it a lot easier for the Los Angeles Angels to keep Shohei Ohtani's bat in the lineup on his start days.

Yuck.  The “automatic runner” is the worst, most artificial rule in sports.  Yes, worse than a shootout. 

[Moranis]

Major League Baseball and the MLB Players Association have agreed to rule tweaks that will expand rosters, place an automatic runner on second base during extra innings and allow pitchers to remain in the lineup after they have been replaced on the mound, an industry source confirmed to ESPN on Tuesday.

The last of those changes will make it a lot easier for the Los Angeles Angels to keep Shohei Ohtani's bat in the lineup on his start days.

Yuck.  The “automatic runner” is the worst, most artificial rule in sports.  Yes, worse than a shootout.

They need to change how era is calculated then.  I mean how do you account for that guy scoring.  Does it count as an earned run against the pitcher?

[Vermont Green]

Major League Baseball and the MLB Players Association have agreed to rule tweaks that will expand rosters, place an automatic runner on second base during extra innings and allow pitchers to remain in the lineup after they have been replaced on the mound, an industry source confirmed to ESPN on Tuesday.

The last of those changes will make it a lot easier for the Los Angeles Angels to keep Shohei Ohtani's bat in the lineup on his start days.

Yuck.  The “automatic runner” is the worst, most artificial rule in sports.  Yes, worse than a shootout.

They need to change how era is calculated then.  I mean how do you account for that guy scoring.  Does it count as an earned run against the pitcher?

It is an unearned run in terms of the pitcher's ERA calculation.  Same as if an inherited runner scores.