Poll

Of the 4 American sports, who is the greatest G.O.A.T?

Michael Jordan - NBA
4 (13.3%)
Tom Brady - NFL
11 (36.7%)
Babe Ruth - MLB
8 (26.7%)
Wayne Gretzky - NHL
7 (23.3%)

Total Members Voted: 29

Author Topic: Who is The Greatest G.O.A.T?  (Read 21875 times)

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Re: Who is The Greatest G.O.A.T?
« Reply #15 on: October 10, 2021, 03:07:05 PM »

Offline greg683x

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It’s Gretzky.  I don’t even think it’s that close and I’m not even a hockey fan.  The guys holds 61 NHL records. 

He has the most goals in NHL history and has almost 100 more than the next guy under him.


Greg

Re: Who is The Greatest G.O.A.T?
« Reply #16 on: October 10, 2021, 03:08:10 PM »

Offline Moranis

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I don't think you can include Jordan as A LOT of people don't think he is the greatest basketball player so how could he be the greatest GOAT.

So for me

I think it comes down to only Ruth and Gretzky as they are the 2 guys pretty much universally regarded as the greatest ever in their sports.  I'd probably have Ruth and then Gretzky, but I think you could easily argue the other order.

Now if you were to include individuals then I think Phelps and Nicklaus would also be in the discussion. Serena might as well, though I know there are still some that feel Graf is the best player ever.
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Re: Who is The Greatest G.O.A.T?
« Reply #17 on: October 10, 2021, 03:17:56 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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I wouldn’t have Brady first.  He may be the best QB ever, but it’s hard to compare across positions.  Is Brady better as a QB than Jim Brown as a RB, LT at linebacker, Jerry Rice at WR?

I think the two most dominant relative to their peers were Ruth and Gretzky.  Both did unprecedented things.
Yes, Brady is better than any other player at their respective positions in the NFL and has done unprecedented stuff. In my opinion, that's unquestionable.
I think Brady is the QB GOAT as well, but Brady's winning actually isn't unprecendented.  Otto Graham played for 10 years and won 7 Championships and was the runner-up the other 3 years he played.  He won 3 MVP's.  He led the league in passing 5 of his 10 seasons.  Obviously a much different sport in the early days, but the guy led his team to the championship game all 10 years he played.

And Roy is right, the positions in football make it so much different.  I mean Brown played 9 years and led the league in rushing 8 of those years.  His level of excellence and dominance was remained unmatched by other RB's. 

In 2019, USA Today put out their list of the greatest players in NFL history.  Jerry Rice was #1.  Brady was 2.  LT was 3 and Brown was 4.  So this notion that Brady is the unquestioned best player in NFL history just isn't all that clear or decided.  QB, yes, but player not so much.
Your contrarianism is incredible, Mo. In another thread you stated that QB was by far the most important position in football and Belichick was an awful GM because he had the best QB ever, that gave his team a +7 more wins per year.

But here, suddenly you are arguing Rice, who played a considerably less important position and Graham, who you admit isn't even the best QB ever as examples as to why Brady isn't the NFL GOAT.


Re: Who is The Greatest G.O.A.T?
« Reply #18 on: October 10, 2021, 03:43:55 PM »

Offline liam

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My list is:

GOAT of GOATS: Russell

Larry Brid - NBA
Tom Brady - NFL
Ted Williams - MLB
Wayne Gretzky - NHL

Re: Who is The Greatest G.O.A.T?
« Reply #19 on: October 10, 2021, 04:38:22 PM »

Offline Moranis

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I wouldn’t have Brady first.  He may be the best QB ever, but it’s hard to compare across positions.  Is Brady better as a QB than Jim Brown as a RB, LT at linebacker, Jerry Rice at WR?

I think the two most dominant relative to their peers were Ruth and Gretzky.  Both did unprecedented things.
Yes, Brady is better than any other player at their respective positions in the NFL and has done unprecedented stuff. In my opinion, that's unquestionable.
I think Brady is the QB GOAT as well, but Brady's winning actually isn't unprecendented.  Otto Graham played for 10 years and won 7 Championships and was the runner-up the other 3 years he played.  He won 3 MVP's.  He led the league in passing 5 of his 10 seasons.  Obviously a much different sport in the early days, but the guy led his team to the championship game all 10 years he played.

And Roy is right, the positions in football make it so much different.  I mean Brown played 9 years and led the league in rushing 8 of those years.  His level of excellence and dominance was remained unmatched by other RB's. 

In 2019, USA Today put out their list of the greatest players in NFL history.  Jerry Rice was #1.  Brady was 2.  LT was 3 and Brown was 4.  So this notion that Brady is the unquestioned best player in NFL history just isn't all that clear or decided.  QB, yes, but player not so much.
Your contrarianism is incredible, Mo. In another thread you stated that QB was by far the most important position in football and Belichick was an awful GM because he had the best QB ever, that gave his team a +7 more wins per year.

But here, suddenly you are arguing Rice, who played a considerably less important position and Graham, who you admit isn't even the best QB ever as examples as to why Brady isn't the NFL GOAT.
I was commenting directly to your post where you said Brady was better than any other player to their respective position and had done unprecedented things.  I assumed one of the unprecedented things you were talking about was championships which is why I mentioned Graham, who won at a higher rate.  I also absolutely disagree with the first part as I do believe Rice, Brown, and LT are every bit as great compared to their peers as Brady is when looking at their respective positions.  If I was ranking players I would have Brady 1 just ahead of Brown, Rice, and LT, but I don't believe it is a given. It is pretty much a given with Ruth and Gretzky, which sets them apart.
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Re: Who is The Greatest G.O.A.T?
« Reply #20 on: October 10, 2021, 04:50:22 PM »

Offline Moranis

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And I absolutely believe QB is the most important position, but in hockey it is the goaltender(same with soccer) and yet no one even thinks of someone like Hayek, Broderick, or Roy when discussing the greatest hockey player of all time.  Heck I think you could argue starting pitcher is the most important position in baseball yet you only hear Ruth followed by other hitters like Mays and Aaron.

I just don't think most important position necessarily means the best at that position is the best in the sports history.
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Re: Who is The Greatest G.O.A.T?
« Reply #21 on: October 10, 2021, 04:57:58 PM »

Offline gouki88

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I wouldn’t have Brady first.  He may be the best QB ever, but it’s hard to compare across positions.  Is Brady better as a QB than Jim Brown as a RB, LT at linebacker, Jerry Rice at WR?

I think the two most dominant relative to their peers were Ruth and Gretzky.  Both did unprecedented things.
Yes, Brady is better than any other player at their respective positions in the NFL and has done unprecedented stuff. In my opinion, that's unquestionable.
I think Brady is the QB GOAT as well, but Brady's winning actually isn't unprecendented.  Otto Graham played for 10 years and won 7 Championships and was the runner-up the other 3 years he played.  He won 3 MVP's.  He led the league in passing 5 of his 10 seasons.  Obviously a much different sport in the early days, but the guy led his team to the championship game all 10 years he played.

And Roy is right, the positions in football make it so much different.  I mean Brown played 9 years and led the league in rushing 8 of those years.  His level of excellence and dominance was remained unmatched by other RB's. 

In 2019, USA Today put out their list of the greatest players in NFL history.  Jerry Rice was #1.  Brady was 2.  LT was 3 and Brown was 4.  So this notion that Brady is the unquestioned best player in NFL history just isn't all that clear or decided.  QB, yes, but player not so much.
I think winning when Graham played is very different to winning in the modern era of free agency and liberal trading.

I voted for Brady out of reflex, but I think you could make an argument for any of he, Gretzky and Ruth. Ruth revolutionised baseball, Gretzky was significantly better than all his competition, and Brady has been dominant in terms of winning and longevity. Jordan probably has the weakest claim
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PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)

Re: Who is The Greatest G.O.A.T?
« Reply #22 on: October 10, 2021, 06:30:59 PM »

Offline celts55

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Ali.

Re: Who is The Greatest G.O.A.T?
« Reply #23 on: October 10, 2021, 06:36:25 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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My list is:

GOAT of GOATS: Russell

Larry Brid - NBA
Tom Brady - NFL
Ted Williams - MLB
Wayne Gretzky - NHL
I would respect this list a whole lot more if Bobby Orr was you NHL GOAT.

😂😂😂

Re: Who is The Greatest G.O.A.T?
« Reply #24 on: October 10, 2021, 06:43:22 PM »

Offline gouki88

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Ali.
It's American team sports, so he doesn't count. If it was sportspeople in general then Phelps and Schumacher would also have to be in the conversation. As would Messi, Ronaldo & Bradman. It gets too broad when you include individual athletes (Ali, Phelps, and tennis players) I think, and sports like soccer and cricket have very worldwide appeal yet little American coverage (relatively), so the discussion can stall.
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C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)

Re: Who is The Greatest G.O.A.T?
« Reply #25 on: October 10, 2021, 06:50:15 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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The WNBA is an American team sport. Is there a WNBA GOAT? I have no idea as I don't follow it.

Re: Who is The Greatest G.O.A.T?
« Reply #26 on: October 10, 2021, 06:58:07 PM »

Offline gouki88

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The WNBA is an American team sport. Is there a WNBA GOAT? I have no idea as I don't follow it.
Funnily, they just recently did a fan vote of it. Diana Taurasi won it. 3 Championships, 2 Finals MVPs, 1 MVP, 14 All-WNBA appearances, 10 All-Star appearances, all-time scoring leader, 5 time scoring champ, 6 EuroLeague titles, 7 Russian league titles, 3 NCAA titles, 2 Naismith awards. Lots of accolades.

I personally think Lauren Jackson is the WNBA GOAT.
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PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
SG: Joe Dumars (92-93) / Jeff Hornacek (91-92) / Jerry Stackhouse (00-01)
SF: Brandon Roy (08-09) / Walter Davis (78-79)
PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)

Re: Who is The Greatest G.O.A.T?
« Reply #27 on: October 10, 2021, 06:58:14 PM »

Offline Ed Monix

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Babe Ruth’s career was during a racially segregated period so IMO he shouldn’t be in this discussion.

For me, Brady is the quarterback GOAT but he fell into the perfect situation as a young quarterback surrounded by HOFers during his first 3 rings and he’s fortunate that new rules protecting quarterbacks has allowed him to play into his 40’s.

Out of that list, IMO it would be between Jordan & Gretzky…but Bill Russell should be in that discussion too.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2021, 07:04:15 PM by Ed Monix »
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Re: Who is The Greatest G.O.A.T?
« Reply #28 on: October 10, 2021, 07:14:39 PM »

Offline feckless

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Bill Russell!  # 6!  The real G.O.A.T.!

11 rings in 13 years!

Plus NCAA and Olympics.

Most competitive ever!

No one else achieved even close to what he did.

Days up and down they come, like rain on a conga drum, forget most, remember some, don't turn none away.   Townes Van Zandt

Re: Who is The Greatest G.O.A.T?
« Reply #29 on: October 10, 2021, 07:35:12 PM »

Offline bricone29

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Babe Ruth’s career was during a racially segregated period so IMO he shouldn’t be in this discussion.


Just stop.