Davis to Lakers trade reportedly in the works for years

[Moranis]

Latest from Lowe:

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/25619439/anthony-davis-trade-talk-biggest-story-nba

What's up with KG pushing AD to go to the Lakers???

I think it is more of pushing AD out of New Orleans to a place he can legitimately win.  At least that was the impression I got from the whole context of quotes.  It centered on Lebron and the Lakers because that has been in the news, but his underlying point is, get out while you are still young because that was KG's greatest professional regret i.e. he stayed in Minny too long.

[Atzar]

Latest from Lowe:

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/25619439/anthony-davis-trade-talk-biggest-story-nba

What's up with KG pushing AD to go to the Lakers???

From reading the article, it looked like ‘not the Pelicans’ was the destination KG had in mind, lol.  The Lakers and Lebron were the specific example he used, but the crux of his argument was that Davis needs to go somewhere that he can win more for the sake of his legacy.

I’d guess that KG would have given us the same approval if pressed.  Wouldn’t read into it as some anti-Celtic statement.

Edit:  Moranis beat me to it.  TP.

[mef730]

Interesting article from Lowe. So let's game it out from the viewpoint of the three parties:

1) New Orleans: At this point, it seems they have to work under the assumption that Davis isn't coming back. Thus, there's an incentive to trade him. Do you trade him now, when the only real player is the Lakers, or do you wait until the summer, when the Celtics can get involved? Lowe mentioned Kawhi as a reason that NOP might want to trade him now, to avoid a collapse in his value. But it seems to me that Kawhi was an entirely different situation. Davis has no marks against him, whereas Kawhi was either A) coming off a season ending injury, or B) was so toxic in the locker room that he couldn't get along with one of the most popular coaches in the league.

In other words, I don't see much threat of AD's value collapsing. I guess that he could declare that there's no way he's resigning with NOP, which would, in theory, diminish his trade value. But for a top-5 player without Kawhi's issues, there's still going to be a huge bid.

2)  Lakers: Because the Lakers have to assume that NOP is willing to hold out, they're gonna have to make their Godfather offer before the trade deadline. None of this "We'll offer them our second-best package and raise it later if we need to." Their goal is to prevent this situation from ever getting to the point where the Celtics have a shot at him. What will it take? As someone suggested earlier, looks like Kuzma, Hart and Ball, plus a few draft picks. It definitely leaves them a little thin, but with a starting two like AD and LeBron, they could definitely attract players to come to LA at a discount and will have some room to do so.

LeBron plans on winning a championship in LA, and I'm sure that the Lakers promised him that they would spare no expense to do so.

If Davis is still available after the trade deadline, I feel much better about the Celtics' chances.

3) Boston: Totally screwed by an obscure rule, and can't get involved until July. I think we all know that, so their ability to play is controlled by the other two parties. The plus side is that we have the best assets to offer. A deal of Brown, Smart, Yabu and Williams, plus the Memphis and Sac picks, is a better deal than what the Lakers can offer.

The problem is this: We don't know the future value of our assets, only the current value. If Brown continues to play like he is now, his value drops. We don't know how NOP would value Smart, but he strikes me as one of those players who won't do nearly as well anywhere else (and who can picture the Celtics without Smart, anyway; could we do a S&T with Rozier instead of Marcus?). And if SAC and Memphis continue their winning ways, those picks won't be nearly as valuable.

Ultimately, if I'm New Orleans, I'm probably better off waiting it out. Even if the Cs players fall apart, the LA offer will still be on the table. But the one thing that we don't know is how AD feels about all of this. If he says, "I want to go to LA," then chances are that's where he'll end up. On the other hand, from Davis's point of view, it's now him, LeBron and a much thinner team, not to mention the fact that stars don't see to work well with LeBron, even though I'm sure that James is promising him that it will be his team in a couple of years.

Right now, I think I'm slightly leaning toward LA, because of the whole bird in hand thing, not to mention that they don't want to risk a situation where AD tells them that he wants to go to Tinseltown, scaring off other suitors.

Mike

[PhoSita]

I feel the way this story ends is that Davis ends up in LA.

The real question is whether Leonard will join him there, as well.

Question for the Celts is can they contend with this group?  Can they make it out of the East?  If not, who cares which West team dominates?

Does Danny try to turn Brown, Williams, and picks into some other piece to add?

Will Hayward ever be All-Star caliber again?

Will Horford negotiate down his deal to give the Celts more flexibility?

[footey]

Interesting article from Lowe. So let's game it out from the viewpoint of the three parties:

1) New Orleans: At this point, it seems they have to work under the assumption that Davis isn't coming back. Thus, there's an incentive to trade him. Do you trade him now, when the only real player is the Lakers, or do you wait until the summer, when the Celtics can get involved? Lowe mentioned Kawhi as a reason that NOP might want to trade him now, to avoid a collapse in his value. But it seems to me that Kawhi was an entirely different situation. Davis has no marks against him, whereas Kawhi was either A) coming off a season ending injury, or B) was so toxic in the locker room that he couldn't get along with one of the most popular coaches in the league.

In other words, I don't see much threat of AD's value collapsing. I guess that he could declare that there's no way he's resigning with NOP, which would, in theory, diminish his trade value. But for a top-5 player without Kawhi's issues, there's still going to be a huge bid.

2)  Lakers: Because the Lakers have to assume that NOP is willing to hold out, they're gonna have to make their Godfather offer before the trade deadline. None of this "We'll offer them our second-best package and raise it later if we need to." Their goal is to prevent this situation from ever getting to the point where the Celtics have a shot at him. What will it take? As someone suggested earlier, looks like Kuzma, Hart and Ball, plus a few draft picks. It definitely leaves them a little thin, but with a starting two like AD and LeBron, they could definitely attract players to come to LA at a discount and will have some room to do so.

LeBron plans on winning a championship in LA, and I'm sure that the Lakers promised him that they would spare no expense to do so.

If Davis is still available after the trade deadline, I feel much better about the Celtics' chances.

3) Boston: Totally screwed by an obscure rule, and can't get involved until July. I think we all know that, so their ability to play is controlled by the other two parties. The plus side is that we have the best assets to offer. A deal of Brown, Smart, Yabu and Williams, plus the Memphis and Sac picks, is a better deal than what the Lakers can offer.

The problem is this: We don't know the future value of our assets, only the current value. If Brown continues to play like he is now, his value drops. We don't know how NOP would value Smart, but he strikes me as one of those players who won't do nearly as well anywhere else (and who can picture the Celtics without Smart, anyway; could we do a S&T with Rozier instead of Marcus?). And if SAC and Memphis continue their winning ways, those picks won't be nearly as valuable.

Ultimately, if I'm New Orleans, I'm probably better off waiting it out. Even if the Cs players fall apart, the LA offer will still be on the table. But the one thing that we don't know is how AD feels about all of this. If he says, "I want to go to LA," then chances are that's where he'll end up. On the other hand, from Davis's point of view, it's now him, LeBron and a much thinner team, not to mention the fact that stars don't see to work well with LeBron, even though I'm sure that James is promising him that it will be his team in a couple of years.

Right now, I think I'm slightly leaning toward LA, because of the whole bird in hand thing, not to mention that they don't want to risk a situation where AD tells them that he wants to go to Tinseltown, scaring off other suitors.

Mike

Lakers offer without Ingram is not Godfather territory. I see the Lakers offering anyone not named Lebron, and maybe create picks through trading Ball, if the Pels don’t want him.

I also see Pels, with Laker offer in hand, calling Celtics and asking hypothetically what they would be willing to offer come July, and specifically whether it would include Tatum in package.

My biggest concern is that agent Paul will do everything possible to steer Davis to L A, and bash Boston in the process. Call me paranoid.

The more I watch our current team the more I’m convinced we need another star like Davis to get to the mountaintop. Maybe I’ll feel differently at the end of the season.

[Rondo9]

https://www.masslive.com/celtics/2018/12/anthony-davis-rumors-2018-boston-celtics-likely-to-be-ultra-aggressive-without-guarantee-per-zach-lowe.html

So do you guys think the Celtics best offer is better than the Lakers?

[Moranis]

Interesting article from Lowe. So let's game it out from the viewpoint of the three parties:

1) New Orleans: At this point, it seems they have to work under the assumption that Davis isn't coming back. Thus, there's an incentive to trade him. Do you trade him now, when the only real player is the Lakers, or do you wait until the summer, when the Celtics can get involved? Lowe mentioned Kawhi as a reason that NOP might want to trade him now, to avoid a collapse in his value. But it seems to me that Kawhi was an entirely different situation. Davis has no marks against him, whereas Kawhi was either A) coming off a season ending injury, or B) was so toxic in the locker room that he couldn't get along with one of the most popular coaches in the league.

In other words, I don't see much threat of AD's value collapsing. I guess that he could declare that there's no way he's resigning with NOP, which would, in theory, diminish his trade value. But for a top-5 player without Kawhi's issues, there's still going to be a huge bid.

2)  Lakers: Because the Lakers have to assume that NOP is willing to hold out, they're gonna have to make their Godfather offer before the trade deadline. None of this "We'll offer them our second-best package and raise it later if we need to." Their goal is to prevent this situation from ever getting to the point where the Celtics have a shot at him. What will it take? As someone suggested earlier, looks like Kuzma, Hart and Ball, plus a few draft picks. It definitely leaves them a little thin, but with a starting two like AD and LeBron, they could definitely attract players to come to LA at a discount and will have some room to do so.

LeBron plans on winning a championship in LA, and I'm sure that the Lakers promised him that they would spare no expense to do so.

If Davis is still available after the trade deadline, I feel much better about the Celtics' chances.

3) Boston: Totally screwed by an obscure rule, and can't get involved until July. I think we all know that, so their ability to play is controlled by the other two parties. The plus side is that we have the best assets to offer. A deal of Brown, Smart, Yabu and Williams, plus the Memphis and Sac picks, is a better deal than what the Lakers can offer.

The problem is this: We don't know the future value of our assets, only the current value. If Brown continues to play like he is now, his value drops. We don't know how NOP would value Smart, but he strikes me as one of those players who won't do nearly as well anywhere else (and who can picture the Celtics without Smart, anyway; could we do a S&T with Rozier instead of Marcus?). And if SAC and Memphis continue their winning ways, those picks won't be nearly as valuable.

Ultimately, if I'm New Orleans, I'm probably better off waiting it out. Even if the Cs players fall apart, the LA offer will still be on the table. But the one thing that we don't know is how AD feels about all of this. If he says, "I want to go to LA," then chances are that's where he'll end up. On the other hand, from Davis's point of view, it's now him, LeBron and a much thinner team, not to mention the fact that stars don't see to work well with LeBron, even though I'm sure that James is promising him that it will be his team in a couple of years.

Right now, I think I'm slightly leaning toward LA, because of the whole bird in hand thing, not to mention that they don't want to risk a situation where AD tells them that he wants to go to Tinseltown, scaring off other suitors.

Mike

Brown, Smart, Yabu, and Sacto and Memphis is not a better offer than the Lakers can make unless the Sacto pick is 2 and the Memphis pick is 9 (i.e. the best they can be).  Ingram, Kuzma, Hart, and Ball (plus some late 1st's) easily tops Boston's offer unless those picks end up great (and even then if the Pelicans don't love Barrett, maybe they still prefer that Lakers offer).  Boston has to offer Tatum to have any shot at realistically beating the Lakers best deal (I say realistically because the odds of Boston striking gold on the picks at this point seems unrealistically low).   

[PhoSita]

Do Ingram and Ball actually have significantly greater value now than middle-of-the-lottery picks in the upcoming draft?

I'm not sure they do.

Neither player has exactly lit the world on fire or looked like a surefire star.  Teams tend to fall in love with the uncertainty and "potential" of guys who haven't entered the league yet.


Jaylen's development has stagnated, too, to be sure.  Not sure what his trade value is, either.  But he's at least been a quality player in the playoffs for a good team, and he profiles as a solid complementary piece in most situations.  Whereas  Ingram seems to need a lot of time on the ball.


Kuzma's a good trade piece, certainly better than Robert Williams or Marcus Smart.  Maybe better than Jaylen Brown.


I think it would come down to whether New Orleans prefers players with some experience (albeit young) or picks. 

[nickagneta]

Interesting article from Lowe. So let's game it out from the viewpoint of the three parties:

1) New Orleans: At this point, it seems they have to work under the assumption that Davis isn't coming back. Thus, there's an incentive to trade him. Do you trade him now, when the only real player is the Lakers, or do you wait until the summer, when the Celtics can get involved? Lowe mentioned Kawhi as a reason that NOP might want to trade him now, to avoid a collapse in his value. But it seems to me that Kawhi was an entirely different situation. Davis has no marks against him, whereas Kawhi was either A) coming off a season ending injury, or B) was so toxic in the locker room that he couldn't get along with one of the most popular coaches in the league.

In other words, I don't see much threat of AD's value collapsing. I guess that he could declare that there's no way he's resigning with NOP, which would, in theory, diminish his trade value. But for a top-5 player without Kawhi's issues, there's still going to be a huge bid.

2)  Lakers: Because the Lakers have to assume that NOP is willing to hold out, they're gonna have to make their Godfather offer before the trade deadline. None of this "We'll offer them our second-best package and raise it later if we need to." Their goal is to prevent this situation from ever getting to the point where the Celtics have a shot at him. What will it take? As someone suggested earlier, looks like Kuzma, Hart and Ball, plus a few draft picks. It definitely leaves them a little thin, but with a starting two like AD and LeBron, they could definitely attract players to come to LA at a discount and will have some room to do so.

LeBron plans on winning a championship in LA, and I'm sure that the Lakers promised him that they would spare no expense to do so.

If Davis is still available after the trade deadline, I feel much better about the Celtics' chances.

3) Boston: Totally screwed by an obscure rule, and can't get involved until July. I think we all know that, so their ability to play is controlled by the other two parties. The plus side is that we have the best assets to offer. A deal of Brown, Smart, Yabu and Williams, plus the Memphis and Sac picks, is a better deal than what the Lakers can offer.

The problem is this: We don't know the future value of our assets, only the current value. If Brown continues to play like he is now, his value drops. We don't know how NOP would value Smart, but he strikes me as one of those players who won't do nearly as well anywhere else (and who can picture the Celtics without Smart, anyway; could we do a S&T with Rozier instead of Marcus?). And if SAC and Memphis continue their winning ways, those picks won't be nearly as valuable.

Ultimately, if I'm New Orleans, I'm probably better off waiting it out. Even if the Cs players fall apart, the LA offer will still be on the table. But the one thing that we don't know is how AD feels about all of this. If he says, "I want to go to LA," then chances are that's where he'll end up. On the other hand, from Davis's point of view, it's now him, LeBron and a much thinner team, not to mention the fact that stars don't see to work well with LeBron, even though I'm sure that James is promising him that it will be his team in a couple of years.

Right now, I think I'm slightly leaning toward LA, because of the whole bird in hand thing, not to mention that they don't want to risk a situation where AD tells them that he wants to go to Tinseltown, scaring off other suitors.

Mike

Lakers offer without Ingram is not Godfather territory. I see the Lakers offering anyone not named Lebron, and maybe create picks through trading Ball, if the Pels don’t want him.

I also see Pels, with Laker offer in hand, calling Celtics and asking hypothetically what they would be willing to offer come July, and specifically whether it would include Tatum in package.

My biggest concern is that agent Paul will do everything possible to steer Davis to L A, and bash Boston in the process. Call me paranoid.

The more I watch our current team the more I’m convinced we need another star like Davis to get to the mountaintop. Maybe I’ll feel differently at the end of the season.

Most likely the Celtics and Pelicans would consumate the deal in July but it would have already been agreed upon before the draft so that the Celtics could draft the players the Pels wanted in this draft. Similar to the Andrew Wiggins and Kevin Love trade that was agreed upon before the draft but wasn't official until the summer.

[Moranis]

Do Ingram and Ball actually have significantly greater value now than middle-of-the-lottery picks in the upcoming draft?

I'm not sure they do.

Neither player has exactly lit the world on fire or looked like a surefire star.  Teams tend to fall in love with the uncertainty and "potential" of guys who haven't entered the league yet.


Jaylen's development has stagnated, too, to be sure.  Not sure what his trade value is, either.  But he's at least been a quality player in the playoffs for a good team, and he profiles as a solid complementary piece in most situations.  Whereas  Ingram seems to need a lot of time on the ball.


Kuzma's a good trade piece, certainly better than Robert Williams or Marcus Smart.  Maybe better than Jaylen Brown.


I think it would come down to whether New Orleans prefers players with some experience (albeit young) or picks.

I think Ingram does, not sure on Ball.  Ingram has actually been as good as Kuzma this year in many respects, for example he is scoring 1.27 pps while Kuzma is down around 1.24 pps.  Kuzma is shooting more, so he is scoring more and getting more pub, but the fall of Ingram has been greatly exaggerated by the national media.  And despite the extra year in the league, Ingram is in fact 2 years younger than Kuzma.  I think there are reasonable arguments that both Ingram and Kuzma are better prospects than Brown, and even Ball might be (depending on the team).  That is why any trade for Davis has to start with Tatum or Boston has no real shot at landing him (the only caveat would be if that Sacto pick ends up at like 2). 

[Moranis]

Interesting article from Lowe. So let's game it out from the viewpoint of the three parties:

1) New Orleans: At this point, it seems they have to work under the assumption that Davis isn't coming back. Thus, there's an incentive to trade him. Do you trade him now, when the only real player is the Lakers, or do you wait until the summer, when the Celtics can get involved? Lowe mentioned Kawhi as a reason that NOP might want to trade him now, to avoid a collapse in his value. But it seems to me that Kawhi was an entirely different situation. Davis has no marks against him, whereas Kawhi was either A) coming off a season ending injury, or B) was so toxic in the locker room that he couldn't get along with one of the most popular coaches in the league.

In other words, I don't see much threat of AD's value collapsing. I guess that he could declare that there's no way he's resigning with NOP, which would, in theory, diminish his trade value. But for a top-5 player without Kawhi's issues, there's still going to be a huge bid.

2)  Lakers: Because the Lakers have to assume that NOP is willing to hold out, they're gonna have to make their Godfather offer before the trade deadline. None of this "We'll offer them our second-best package and raise it later if we need to." Their goal is to prevent this situation from ever getting to the point where the Celtics have a shot at him. What will it take? As someone suggested earlier, looks like Kuzma, Hart and Ball, plus a few draft picks. It definitely leaves them a little thin, but with a starting two like AD and LeBron, they could definitely attract players to come to LA at a discount and will have some room to do so.

LeBron plans on winning a championship in LA, and I'm sure that the Lakers promised him that they would spare no expense to do so.

If Davis is still available after the trade deadline, I feel much better about the Celtics' chances.

3) Boston: Totally screwed by an obscure rule, and can't get involved until July. I think we all know that, so their ability to play is controlled by the other two parties. The plus side is that we have the best assets to offer. A deal of Brown, Smart, Yabu and Williams, plus the Memphis and Sac picks, is a better deal than what the Lakers can offer.

The problem is this: We don't know the future value of our assets, only the current value. If Brown continues to play like he is now, his value drops. We don't know how NOP would value Smart, but he strikes me as one of those players who won't do nearly as well anywhere else (and who can picture the Celtics without Smart, anyway; could we do a S&T with Rozier instead of Marcus?). And if SAC and Memphis continue their winning ways, those picks won't be nearly as valuable.

Ultimately, if I'm New Orleans, I'm probably better off waiting it out. Even if the Cs players fall apart, the LA offer will still be on the table. But the one thing that we don't know is how AD feels about all of this. If he says, "I want to go to LA," then chances are that's where he'll end up. On the other hand, from Davis's point of view, it's now him, LeBron and a much thinner team, not to mention the fact that stars don't see to work well with LeBron, even though I'm sure that James is promising him that it will be his team in a couple of years.

Right now, I think I'm slightly leaning toward LA, because of the whole bird in hand thing, not to mention that they don't want to risk a situation where AD tells them that he wants to go to Tinseltown, scaring off other suitors.

Mike

Lakers offer without Ingram is not Godfather territory. I see the Lakers offering anyone not named Lebron, and maybe create picks through trading Ball, if the Pels don’t want him.

I also see Pels, with Laker offer in hand, calling Celtics and asking hypothetically what they would be willing to offer come July, and specifically whether it would include Tatum in package.

My biggest concern is that agent Paul will do everything possible to steer Davis to L A, and bash Boston in the process. Call me paranoid.

The more I watch our current team the more I’m convinced we need another star like Davis to get to the mountaintop. Maybe I’ll feel differently at the end of the season.

Most likely the Celtics and Pelicans would consumate the deal in July but it would have already been agreed upon before the draft so that the Celtics could draft the players the Pels wanted in this draft. Similar to the Andrew Wiggins and Kevin Love trade that was agreed upon before the draft but wasn't official until the summer.

Wiggins and Love was not agreed upon before the draft.  A Love traded wasn't even discussed until Lebron signed with the Cavs as a free agent, long after the draft.  And then for awhile, the Cavs refused to include Wiggins in the trade before finally relenting.  Your greater point though is sound i.e. you can agree to the trade before the draft and then finalize it after.  That happens every year.

[nickagneta]

Interesting article from Lowe. So let's game it out from the viewpoint of the three parties:

1) New Orleans: At this point, it seems they have to work under the assumption that Davis isn't coming back. Thus, there's an incentive to trade him. Do you trade him now, when the only real player is the Lakers, or do you wait until the summer, when the Celtics can get involved? Lowe mentioned Kawhi as a reason that NOP might want to trade him now, to avoid a collapse in his value. But it seems to me that Kawhi was an entirely different situation. Davis has no marks against him, whereas Kawhi was either A) coming off a season ending injury, or B) was so toxic in the locker room that he couldn't get along with one of the most popular coaches in the league.

In other words, I don't see much threat of AD's value collapsing. I guess that he could declare that there's no way he's resigning with NOP, which would, in theory, diminish his trade value. But for a top-5 player without Kawhi's issues, there's still going to be a huge bid.

2)  Lakers: Because the Lakers have to assume that NOP is willing to hold out, they're gonna have to make their Godfather offer before the trade deadline. None of this "We'll offer them our second-best package and raise it later if we need to." Their goal is to prevent this situation from ever getting to the point where the Celtics have a shot at him. What will it take? As someone suggested earlier, looks like Kuzma, Hart and Ball, plus a few draft picks. It definitely leaves them a little thin, but with a starting two like AD and LeBron, they could definitely attract players to come to LA at a discount and will have some room to do so.

LeBron plans on winning a championship in LA, and I'm sure that the Lakers promised him that they would spare no expense to do so.

If Davis is still available after the trade deadline, I feel much better about the Celtics' chances.

3) Boston: Totally screwed by an obscure rule, and can't get involved until July. I think we all know that, so their ability to play is controlled by the other two parties. The plus side is that we have the best assets to offer. A deal of Brown, Smart, Yabu and Williams, plus the Memphis and Sac picks, is a better deal than what the Lakers can offer.

The problem is this: We don't know the future value of our assets, only the current value. If Brown continues to play like he is now, his value drops. We don't know how NOP would value Smart, but he strikes me as one of those players who won't do nearly as well anywhere else (and who can picture the Celtics without Smart, anyway; could we do a S&T with Rozier instead of Marcus?). And if SAC and Memphis continue their winning ways, those picks won't be nearly as valuable.

Ultimately, if I'm New Orleans, I'm probably better off waiting it out. Even if the Cs players fall apart, the LA offer will still be on the table. But the one thing that we don't know is how AD feels about all of this. If he says, "I want to go to LA," then chances are that's where he'll end up. On the other hand, from Davis's point of view, it's now him, LeBron and a much thinner team, not to mention the fact that stars don't see to work well with LeBron, even though I'm sure that James is promising him that it will be his team in a couple of years.

Right now, I think I'm slightly leaning toward LA, because of the whole bird in hand thing, not to mention that they don't want to risk a situation where AD tells them that he wants to go to Tinseltown, scaring off other suitors.

Mike

Lakers offer without Ingram is not Godfather territory. I see the Lakers offering anyone not named Lebron, and maybe create picks through trading Ball, if the Pels don’t want him.

I also see Pels, with Laker offer in hand, calling Celtics and asking hypothetically what they would be willing to offer come July, and specifically whether it would include Tatum in package.

My biggest concern is that agent Paul will do everything possible to steer Davis to L A, and bash Boston in the process. Call me paranoid.

The more I watch our current team the more I’m convinced we need another star like Davis to get to the mountaintop. Maybe I’ll feel differently at the end of the season.

Most likely the Celtics and Pelicans would consumate the deal in July but it would have already been agreed upon before the draft so that the Celtics could draft the players the Pels wanted in this draft. Similar to the Andrew Wiggins and Kevin Love trade that was agreed upon before the draft but wasn't official until the summer.

Wiggins and Love was not agreed upon before the draft.  A Love traded wasn't even discussed until Lebron signed with the Cavs as a free agent, long after the draft.  And then for awhile, the Cavs refused to include Wiggins in the trade before finally relenting.  Your greater point though is sound i.e. you can agree to the trade before the draft and then finalize it after.  That happens every year.

I must have been remembering that the trade had been discussed for months before the trade was consumated and agreed upon just after LeBron's signing. Also there was the 30 day delay between when the deal was agreed upon in mid July to consummation in August due to needing to wait 30 days before being able to trade Wiggins after he signed.

You are absolutely wrong that the trade wasn't discussed not only before LeBron signed but before the draft. The trade was probably mostly agreed upon before the draft.

[PhoSita]

I think Ingram does, not sure on Ball.  Ingram has actually been as good as Kuzma this year in many respects, for example he is scoring 1.27 pps while Kuzma is down around 1.24 pps. 

Ingram ... -4.2 BPM, 0.32 WS/48 ... very poor rebounder for his size, TOV% much higher than AST%, TS% is mediocre for a scorer type, low STL% and BLK% for his size and length, as well. 

He generates free throws OK, but hits a low percentage.  He doesn't take many threes and is a poor three point shooter.


Ingram has never played well for a good team for any significant stretch.  Jaylen has been a valuable contributor to a team that made a deep playoff run.  It's a lot easier to see the path to above-average value, let alone star value, for Jaylen than for Ingram.


Ingram is young, it's true, but unlike Jaylen he has a long way to go physically in addition to mental and skill development.

I continue to feel that Ingram is super overrated as a prospect and asset.  He's skinny Harrison Barnes, at this point.

[Moranis]

I think Ingram does, not sure on Ball.  Ingram has actually been as good as Kuzma this year in many respects, for example he is scoring 1.27 pps while Kuzma is down around 1.24 pps. 

Ingram ... -4.2 BPM, 0.32 WS/48 ... very poor rebounder for his size, TOV% much higher than AST%, TS% is mediocre for a scorer type, low STL% and BLK% for his size and length, as well. 

He generates free throws OK, but hits a low percentage.  He doesn't take many threes and is a poor three point shooter.


Ingram has never played well for a good team for any significant stretch.  Jaylen has been a valuable contributor to a team that made a deep playoff run.  It's a lot easier to see the path to above-average value, let alone star value, for Jaylen than for Ingram.


Ingram is young, it's true, but unlike Jaylen he has a long way to go physically in addition to mental and skill development.

I continue to feel that Ingram is super overrated as a prospect and asset.  He's skinny Harrison Barnes, at this point.

I was responding to your question about mid-lottery pick value as that is the question you asked in the post I was responding to.

That said, I think Ingram still has a higher ceiling than Brown.  However, Brown is much more likely to reach (or at least get close to) his ceiling.

[celticsclay]

We obviously have no way of knowing this, but my opinion would be that most front offices probably view brown as a guy that is in a bad situation and is still an elite prospect. He performed incredibly in the playoffs, has physical tools and that had his role completely change overnight. If I was a gm I would want him if I can take advantage of the Celtics glut of wings that have suppressed Browns value slightly. I’m not really sure anyone is high on lonzo. Hasn’t he generally been outplayed by rondo in the twilight of his career?