Brown for Sabonis and a 1st? who says no

[slamtheking]

I like Sabonis but not at the cost of Brown.

[Vox_Populi]

Danny Ainge.

[footey]

Brown is a crazy number of times better than Sabonis.

It like someone suggested PG13 for Kanter trade, stating that PG is a burden for cap space more than Kanter is.
While true it has no anchorage in team building sanity.

Lol, what? This hyperbole is especially funny because Sabonis is better than Kanter, while Brown is worse than PG by a massive amount. Brown has higher potential, but Sabonis is probably better right now and is at our most shallow position

I don't even know if Brown has higher potential.  I think he at best caps out as a Paul Pierce like career and player, while I think Sabonis can at best cap out as a Chris Webber like career and player.  In other words, pretty darn similar at their peak.  I do know that unlike Brown, Sabonis has continued to progress in all facets of the game in all 3 seasons and he out performed Brown last year in very similar roles for their teams.

As I've said many times, I'd trade Brown for Sabonis straight up as I do think that is just overall a better fit for the team with Sabonis playing a position of need and Brown being very redundant with Hayward, Tatum, and Smart.  Perhaps Brown ends up with a better career, but I can't see it so much better that I wouldn't make the trade to improve the team in the near term.

Without a doubt the fit is better. People hesitate here because of local bias, plus the feeling that Sabonis has about reached his peak, whereas Brown is just tapping into his potential.  And that last year for Brown should be discounted due to the wing surplus, team chemistry issues, etc.

Plus the comparison to Chris Webber seems a bit far fetched to me, even as his limit.

[mmmmm]

Yabu and the MEM pick for Sabonis, my finally offer

Indiana says no. Even Memphis says no deal to that low ball offer. They do not want their pick associated with such a heist.

Sabonis worth more than that pick? I don't think so. It's an overpay. But then again they do have to take Yabu...

This is a drastic under valuation of Sabonis. He’s a good young player. For a big, he’s a great passer and can score/rebound. He’d cost more than a pick but I don’t think Indy has any interest in trading him.

I've seen this proposed elsewhere;
Langford & Milwaukee 2020 pick for Sabonis. Something like that.
It gives Indiana 2 prospects on rookie deals for Sabonis. Indiana's backcourt is depleted. Collison retired and Oladipo is out till Dec. Langford won't be buried on the depth chart like he is in Boston, plus he's an Indy guy.

I think the idea of Romeo + modest pick for Sabonis is a solid transaction for both teams.

Financially, it favors IND, giving them full rookie contract control of Langford (plus the pick) for the last rookie year of Sabonis.  It takes the future cost of Sabonis' pending RFA status off them and puts it on the Celtics.

Basketball-wise, it solves an immediate huge need for the Celtics with almost the exact kind of big man that they could use (mobile, great rebounder, good passer).   And it gives IND a local product that they apparently were hoping would slip to them in this last draft.   Both teams would be dealing from positional surplus.

Romeo's rookie scale contract should be about ~2.8M.   So if they sign him and then wait 30 days to make the transaction that should be sufficient for salary-matching Sabonis' incoming 3.8M.

[gpap]

Indiana says no to Sabonis AND a 1st for Brown.

It's Jaylen Brown, not Giannis or James Harden.

[wiley]

watching Sabonis try to score in the paint against his defender is like watching a fly try to push a bean across a swath of molasses.

I'd take him with pleasure.  Just not for Brown....and probably not for Langford either.  Can't let the need dictate the trade...

Langford at some point will likely give us some unique, hard to replace talent (frequency getting to line?, scoring in general?, etc.)  Sabonis is replaceable. 

We could get a better big for Brown, and in that case we'd need Langford (if all goes as expected with him)

[gpap]

Danny Ainge.

You're probably right, and that's the scary part.

[td450]

Sabonis is a very nice player, but he doesn't provide the defensive profile that we need for a big.  He's a power forward.

The C's neutralized him pretty well in the playoffs. He's a very clever offensive player who makes a lot happen, but it seems if you turn up the effort, interrupt his offensive sets and focus on putting a body on him, he doesn't have a counter for that.

The reason Brown is such a valuable guy is that he has another gear. A lot of other players shrink in the playoffs, or struggle against superstars. He does not. This is a superstar league, and you need guys confident, skilled and athletic enough to not get overwhelmed. He's one of those guys, even if he doesn't become a superstar.

[wiley]

Sabonis is a very nice player, but he doesn't provide the defensive profile that we need for a big.  He's a power forward.

The C's neutralized him pretty well in the playoffs. He's a very clever offensive player who makes a lot happen, but it seems if you turn up the effort, interrupt his offensive sets and focus on putting a body on him, he doesn't have a counter for that.

The reason Brown is such a valuable guy is that he has another gear. A lot of other players shrink in the playoffs, or struggle against superstars. He does not. This is a superstar league, and you need guys confident, skilled and athletic enough to not get overwhelmed. He's one of those guys, even if he doesn't become a superstar.

Thank you and TP for explaining better than me. 

[DefenseWinsChamps]

Ainge has balked at trading the young talent on the team for more proven talent. He hasn't pushed his chips in when he had Irving and Horford.

He's not panicking now. They've had months to prepare for this inevitability. They have backup plans we don't know about. He's not going to make a panic trade because we missed out on Dwayne Dedmon and Julius Randle.

CBS's system is proven successful even with fringe NBA bigs (Zeller, Sully, Johnson). I'd like to get one more rotation guy too. I'd like Sabonis a lot. But this team's final form won't be until Jayson Tatum and Jaylen Brown hit their stride as players. He's got time to get another guy.

[Androslav]

Ainge has balked at trading the young talent on the team for more proven talent. He hasn't pushed his chips in when he had Irving and Horford.

He's not panicking now. They've had months to prepare for this inevitability. They have backup plans we don't know about. He's not going to make a panic trade because we missed out on Dwayne Dedmon and Julius Randle.

CBS's system is proven successful even with fringe NBA bigs (Zeller, Sully, Johnson). I'd like to get one more rotation guy too. I'd like Sabonis a lot. But this team's final form won't be until Jayson Tatum and Jaylen Brown hit their stride as players. He's got time to get another guy.

If TP had a dad, you'd get it.

[knuckleballer]

Indiana says no to Sabonis AND a 1st for Brown.

It's Jaylen Brown, not Giannis or James Harden.

What about Brown for Sabonis straight up?  I think I would do it.  I feel there's a perceived upside with Brown that's going to get him the max next season.  I'm uncomfortable with that as he hasn't shown much improvement.  I'm sure a lot of that has to do with last year's logjam, but his free throw shooting, ball handling, and ability to create for others haven't improved much. 

I feel there isn't as much excitement for Sabonis's potential which will prevent him from getting as much money as Brown.  Sabonis is a hard worker whose game has shown consistent improvement.  He averaged 13.5 rebounds and 4.2 assists per 36 last season.  Compare that to Brown's 5.9 rebounds and 1.9 assists.

Most importantly Sabonis fills a need.  I don't know how we're going to get as talented of a big without trading away talent.  I don't know if the Pacers would have interest though.

[slamtheking]

Indiana says no to Sabonis AND a 1st for Brown.

It's Jaylen Brown, not Giannis or James Harden.

Boston says no.

It's Sabonis, not KAT or Anthony Davis.

[footey]

Yabu and the MEM pick for Sabonis, my finally offer

Indiana says no. Even Memphis says no deal to that low ball offer. They do not want their pick associated with such a heist.

Sabonis worth more than that pick? I don't think so. It's an overpay. But then again they do have to take Yabu...

This is a drastic under valuation of Sabonis. He’s a good young player. For a big, he’s a great passer and can score/rebound. He’d cost more than a pick but I don’t think Indy has any interest in trading him.

I've seen this proposed elsewhere;
Langford & Milwaukee 2020 pick for Sabonis. Something like that.
It gives Indiana 2 prospects on rookie deals for Sabonis. Indiana's backcourt is depleted. Collison retired and Oladipo is out till Dec. Langford won't be buried on the depth chart like he is in Boston, plus he's an Indy guy.

I think the idea of Romeo + modest pick for Sabonis is a solid transaction for both teams.

Financially, it favors IND, giving them full rookie contract control of Langford (plus the pick) for the last rookie year of Sabonis.  It takes the future cost of Sabonis' pending RFA status off them and puts it on the Celtics.

Basketball-wise, it solves an immediate huge need for the Celtics with almost the exact kind of big man that they could use (mobile, great rebounder, good passer).   And it gives IND a local product that they apparently were hoping would slip to them in this last draft.   Both teams would be dealing from positional surplus.

Romeo's rookie scale contract should be about ~2.8M.   So if they sign him and then wait 30 days to make the transaction that should be sufficient for salary-matching Sabonis' incoming 3.8M.

I would agree but for they have loaded up the last few days on similar players (Brogdon, Lamb, Warren) so think they have less interest in Romeo.

[Moranis]

Brown is a crazy number of times better than Sabonis.

It like someone suggested PG13 for Kanter trade, stating that PG is a burden for cap space more than Kanter is.
While true it has no anchorage in team building sanity.

Lol, what? This hyperbole is especially funny because Sabonis is better than Kanter, while Brown is worse than PG by a massive amount. Brown has higher potential, but Sabonis is probably better right now and is at our most shallow position

I don't even know if Brown has higher potential.  I think he at best caps out as a Paul Pierce like career and player, while I think Sabonis can at best cap out as a Chris Webber like career and player.  In other words, pretty darn similar at their peak.  I do know that unlike Brown, Sabonis has continued to progress in all facets of the game in all 3 seasons and he out performed Brown last year in very similar roles for their teams.

As I've said many times, I'd trade Brown for Sabonis straight up as I do think that is just overall a better fit for the team with Sabonis playing a position of need and Brown being very redundant with Hayward, Tatum, and Smart.  Perhaps Brown ends up with a better career, but I can't see it so much better that I wouldn't make the trade to improve the team in the near term.

Without a doubt the fit is better. People hesitate here because of local bias, plus the feeling that Sabonis has about reached his peak, whereas Brown is just tapping into his potential.  And that last year for Brown should be discounted due to the wing surplus, team chemistry issues, etc.

Plus the comparison to Chris Webber seems a bit far fetched to me, even as his limit.

I don't see how anyone can say that Sabonis reached his peak given he made significant strides not only from year 1 to year 2 but also year 2 to year 3.  And it isn't just total numbers increasing, it is rates, efficiency, and advanced metrics.  Last year in about 25 mpg, he averaged 14.1 ppg, 9.3 rpg, and 2.9 apg with a TS% of 63.  Even his defense has improved as he had a DRTG of 104 last year (to go along with his ORTG of 118). 

BTW, per 36 those stats equate to 20.4/13.5/4.9 which are significantly better than Chris Webber's career per 36 numbers (and are on par with Webber's prime seasons - a bit less scoring, but a better rebounder and passer).