Markieff Morris Wants Out

[D.o.s.]

I mean I'm indifferent to whether or not he goes to jail but that's because I don't know what happened. If he's guilty, sure, he should serve time.

However, the quote was:

Will it keep Markieff off the court?  Because Sully's issues have tended to keep him off the court.

[PhoSita]

You did it repeatedly.

Nope.

I hate to go to the low-Internet phrase, "Learn to read!" but I think it applies here.

[PhoSita]

My biggest issue in this particular post is the fact that Phosita did make the comparison and then denied ever making it. That just rubs me the wrong way personally, because I don't like it when I feel like someone is going out of their way to be disingenuous rather just owning up to what they write. 

What I actually said:

Sully's defense and weight issues concern me a lot more than whatever Markieff's personality issues supposedly are.

Will it keep Markieff off the court?  Because Sully's issues have tended to keep him off the court.

My question, though, is will it keep him off the court?  I'm rather skeptical that it will.  This sort of thing doesn't tend to keep professional athletes from playing.

I'm not even sure how often we'll see the current, non-ideal version of Sullinger capable of actually playing, let alone playing 30+ minutes.

Markieff is the better bet, and he's a better deal over the next four years.

The point that was made is that Sullinger's weight has a greater chance of actually keeping him off the court.

Hey, look at that, throughout the entire post I've been consistent.  I've even repeatedly clarified my position -- though to any reasonable reader it was clear from the beginning -- as you huff and puff and insist on sticking with your initial misreading of what was said.  Go figure.

From the start, I've compared the two players' issues only in terms of the extent to which they might keep each player off of the basketball court.  Nothing else.  We are talking about basketball players -- people who only exist to us to the extent that they play basketball in the NBA. 

So you know, my focus has been on what is, for our purposes, actually relevant.  That is what "concerns" me.


If you find that morally repugnant, that's fine by me.  Just be clear about what you're actually accusing me of doing.  Your assertions to the contrary suggest either that you have trouble understanding the language we're all speaking, or you are willfully disregarding the meaning of what I've posted in context in order to justify your moral outrage.  Either way, yawn.

[Celtics18]

Removing any moral judgment, I actually think that Markieff Morris' off-the-court issues are a greater risk to his NBA basketball career than Jared Sullinger's fitness issues.

Markieff seems in serious danger of heading down a path where NBA franchises aren't going to want the headaches involved with having someone as volatile as Mook on their roster.

He'll probably be given another opportunity or two, but he'll be on a very short leash. 

[MJohnnyboy]

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/08/14/report-markieff-morris-prefers-trade-to-rockets-or-raptors-but-mainly-away-from-suns/

He prefers Rockets or Raptors. I understand the Raptors need a power forward especially since they lost Amir, but I'm not sure Morris is their guy. Morris is good but defensively he's a downgrade from Johnson. Then again, he provides more spacing than Amir.

I'm pulling for the Rockets to get him so they can tighten the western conference race, but I don't see how it could work without giving up too much. They could certainly get him, but I'm not sure they are willing to give up some of their vital rotation guys (Ariza, Jones, Beverley) to get him.

[PhoSita]

Removing any moral judgment, I actually think that Markieff Morris' off-the-court issues are a greater risk to his NBA basketball career than Jared Sullinger's fitness issues.

Markieff seems in serious danger of heading down a path where NBA franchises aren't going to want the headaches involved with having someone as volatile as Mook on their roster.

He'll probably be given another opportunity or two, but he'll be on a very short leash.

I agree that the leash is short.

Honestly, it seems like playing apart from his brother is probably a good thing as far as that goes.

I'll say again, if Brad Stevens is really deserving of all of our faith, he ought to be able to handle one guy like Markieff.  That's not the same thing as saying we should assemble the modern version of the JailBlazers.

Are there any other off-court issues with Markieff than this particular incident?  I'll reiterate my question from before re: when was the last time an NBA player missed time for something like this.  I'm interested to know the answer.



Anyway, the Raptors make some sense.  I could see  Patterson for Markieff trade working for both sides.

[jbp126]

Not terribly interested in Morris because I see him as a slight upgrade over Sully. That said, I'd trade for him based on consolidating this roster.

Also, I generally don't agree with the judgment of an athlete's personality/character issues. I don't condone assault, violence, or crime, but I don't know that whole story and if it's an isolated incident, I wouldn't avoid acquiring him due to it. About him asking for a trade because they traded his brother; that's the narrative that's been created. No one knows the whole story and he isn't the only player to be displeased with the Suns recently (Goran Dragic).

[hwangjini_1]

Removing any moral judgment, I actually think that Markieff Morris' off-the-court issues are a greater risk to his NBA basketball career than Jared Sullinger's fitness issues.

Markieff seems in serious danger of heading down a path where NBA franchises aren't going to want the headaches involved with having someone as volatile as Mook on their roster.

He'll probably be given another opportunity or two, but he'll be on a very short leash.

I agree that the leash is short.

Honestly, it seems like playing apart from his brother is probably a good thing as far as that goes.

I'll say again, if Brad Stevens is really deserving of all of our faith, he ought to be able to handle one guy like Markieff.  That's not the same thing as saying we should assemble the modern version of the JailBlazers.

Are there any other off-court issues with Markieff than this particular incident? I'll reiterate my question from before re: when was the last time an NBA player missed time for something like this.  I'm interested to know the answer.



Anyway, the Raptors make some sense.  I could see  Patterson for Markieff trade working for both sides.

it is a bit murkier than we might have thought, but your basic point is an interesting one.

a quick google search showed:

http://www.thesportster.com/basketball/15-nba-players-who-have-been-to-prison/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_professional_sportspeople_convicted_of_crimes

http://www.businessinsider.com/atlanta-hawks-mike-scott-arrested-2015-8

and then there is the man who admits he fired an automatic weapon during a drive-by shooting, but he never intended to kill anyone....

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/04/29/us-usa-georgia-crittenton-idUSKBN0NK1UY20150429

as for your next point on "is this the only thing wrong he has done?" (and yes, as stated it does raise the question of how many times for such heinous acts have to happen before disapproval sets in.  )

again, a quick and unthorough search did not show other criminal acts, but did show an interesting attitude on the part of MM as team player.

the reporter write: "The voices in the locker room. The passion. The voices I remember were arguing with refs, with coaches, with media and calling out the fans for being the worst in the NBA. Those were the voices.

Marcus berating the coach during a live game. The coach benching players for getting too many technical fouls for arguing with refs, often after the call WENT THEIR WAY. Players still getting techs anyway, and then telling the media the techs had nothing to do with their losses. The players banding together and finally convincing the coach they couldn't be held accountable to stop getting techs, and forcing the coach's hand to lift the benching rule."

http://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2015/8/12/9137711/markieff-morris-has-a-right-to-feel-disrespected-but-should-be-traded

[Celtics18]

Removing any moral judgment, I actually think that Markieff Morris' off-the-court issues are a greater risk to his NBA basketball career than Jared Sullinger's fitness issues.

Markieff seems in serious danger of heading down a path where NBA franchises aren't going to want the headaches involved with having someone as volatile as Mook on their roster.

He'll probably be given another opportunity or two, but he'll be on a very short leash.

I agree that the leash is short.

Honestly, it seems like playing apart from his brother is probably a good thing as far as that goes.

I'll say again, if Brad Stevens is really deserving of all of our faith, he ought to be able to handle one guy like Markieff.  That's not the same thing as saying we should assemble the modern version of the JailBlazers.

Are there any other off-court issues with Markieff than this particular incident?  I'll reiterate my question from before re: when was the last time an NBA player missed time for something like this.  I'm interested to know the answer.



Anyway, the Raptors make some sense.  I could see  Patterson for Markieff trade working for both sides.

Yeah, let the Raptors have him. 

[PhoSita]

as for your next point on "is this the only thing wrong he has done?" (and yes, as stated it does raise the question of how many times for such heinous acts have to happen before disapproval sets in.  )

Eh, I just don't really see why it should be important for me to approve, or not, of Markieff Morris.  I care about his characteristics as a basketball player.

The question as posed relates to: Is there a pattern of behavior here that should give us reason to think it would continue into his tenure with our team and threaten his playing time?

I understand he has a reputation for getting technical fouls.  There are some very beloved ex-Celtics who also had that reputation.

[PhoSita]

As an aside, I think culturally we are far too willing to say, "Lock 'em up!" when it comes to people who allegedly break the law.  I emphasize "allegedly" because the presumption of innocence is also easily forgotten, unless it's a beloved white franchise quarterback for the local team.

Especially true when we're talking about people we don't know personally, who look different than us, come from a different background than us, and whose crime is connected to a way of life / culture / community / class experience that is not our own.

Imprisonment is not a particularly good solution for anything, really, other than removing from society people that we have no better answer for.  Long term imprisonment, especially, is a terrible solution for anything other than completely excising an individual from society. 

But this is a whole can of worms for the off-topic forum, perhaps.

[hwangjini_1]

As an aside, I think culturally we are far too willing to say, "Lock 'em up!" when it comes to people who allegedly break the law.  I emphasize "allegedly" because the presumption of innocence is also easily forgotten, unless it's a beloved white franchise quarterback for the local team.

Especially true when we're talking about people we don't know personally, who look different than us, come from a different background than us, and whose crime is connected to a way of life / culture / community / class experience that is not our own.

Imprisonment is not a particularly good solution for anything, really, other than removing from society people that we have no better answer for.  Long term imprisonment, especially, is a terrible solution for anything other than completely excising an individual from society. 

But this is a whole can of worms for the off-topic forum, perhaps.

yes, it seems that bravado has replaced finding solutions to social problems and crime. as you note, the US does like to lock up people, which obviously does not lower crime rates.

the US has the highest incarceration rate in the world, at 716 per 100,000 of the national population. the US represents about 4.4 percent of the world's population, it houses around 22 percent of the world's prisoners.

sobering and depressing statistics for sure.

[Forza Juventus]

As an aside, I think culturally we are far too willing to say, "Lock 'em up!" when it comes to people who allegedly break the law.  I emphasize "allegedly" because the presumption of innocence is also easily forgotten, unless it's a beloved white franchise quarterback for the local team.

Especially true when we're talking about people we don't know personally, who look different than us, come from a different background than us, and whose crime is connected to a way of life / culture / community / class experience that is not our own.

Imprisonment is not a particularly good solution for anything, really, other than removing from society people that we have no better answer for.  Long term imprisonment, especially, is a terrible solution for anything other than completely excising an individual from society. 

But this is a whole can of worms for the off-topic forum, perhaps.

I agree with all of this

[Forza Juventus]

As an aside, I think culturally we are far too willing to say, "Lock 'em up!" when it comes to people who allegedly break the law.  I emphasize "allegedly" because the presumption of innocence is also easily forgotten, unless it's a beloved white franchise quarterback for the local team.

Especially true when we're talking about people we don't know personally, who look different than us, come from a different background than us, and whose crime is connected to a way of life / culture / community / class experience that is not our own.

Imprisonment is not a particularly good solution for anything, really, other than removing from society people that we have no better answer for.  Long term imprisonment, especially, is a terrible solution for anything other than completely excising an individual from society. 

But this is a whole can of worms for the off-topic forum, perhaps.

yes, it seems that bravado has replaced finding solutions to social problems and crime. as you note, the US does like to lock up people, which obviously does not lower crime rates.

the US has the highest incarceration rate in the world, at 716 per 100,000 of the national population. the US represents about 4.4 percent of the world's population, it houses around 22 percent of the world's prisoners.

sobering and depressing statistics for sure.

And it's so messed up that people own the prisons and make a lot of money off all of that. Also the food companies, the companies that make the stuff they inject death row inmates with, etc. the usa is often a bloodthirsty country that worships money.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dapocWEfczQ

[footey]

This is a sideways move at best.  Reminds me of the Ricky Davis trade. Just doubt it will help our roster any.  A trade just to make a trade.