Author Topic: Is draymond being exposed?  (Read 7927 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Is draymond being exposed?
« on: December 10, 2019, 12:28:58 AM »

Offline celticsclay

  • Reggie Lewis
  • ***************
  • Posts: 15739
  • Tommy Points: 1386
I feel like a lot of people talked about him as a top 15 player but he looks completely irrelevant without curry, Thompson and Durant. Is he any different than a Drummond, Vucevic or even Marcus smart?

Re: Is draymond being exposed?
« Reply #1 on: December 10, 2019, 12:37:08 AM »

Offline gouki88

  • NCE
  • Red Auerbach
  • *******************************
  • Posts: 31552
  • Tommy Points: 3141
  • 2019 & 2021 CS Historical Draft Champion
His performance this season is basically exactly what I expected to see. He's way past his prime (look at 15-16 Green compared to now), and defences are giving him some actual attention now that the big 3 aren't out there with him. He's been reliably inefficient at scoring over the last few years, but it's noticeably worse this season.

Can't say I'm sorry to see him decline like this. Always disliked the way he played the game
'23 Historical Draft: Orlando Magic.

PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
SG: Joe Dumars (92-93) / Jeff Hornacek (91-92) / Jerry Stackhouse (00-01)
SF: Brandon Roy (08-09) / Walter Davis (78-79)
PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)

Re: Is draymond being exposed?
« Reply #2 on: December 10, 2019, 01:24:45 AM »

Offline CelticsElite

  • NCE
  • Danny Ainge
  • **********
  • Posts: 10774
  • Tommy Points: 789
Big time exposed. A lot of people theorized this is how green would perform if he lead a team on his own

Should be interesting to see if golden state re-signs him at how much?  And how his free agency overall goes

Re: Is draymond being exposed?
« Reply #3 on: December 10, 2019, 01:30:36 AM »

Offline wiley

  • Antoine Walker
  • ****
  • Posts: 4849
  • Tommy Points: 386
I don’t think so.  It’s hard to look good on a horrible team.  He was excellent just some months ago in the playoffs. 
His thing is intangibles.  His defense may not be so good this year but that’s good for the Warriors future. It’ll be good again next year.
An intangibles guy on the worst team in the league will have trouble impressing anyone.  He’d be an absolute stud on this Celtics team...
And I mean without scoring.

Re: Is draymond being exposed?
« Reply #4 on: December 10, 2019, 01:44:12 AM »

Online SparzWizard

  • JoJo White
  • ****************
  • Posts: 16057
  • Tommy Points: 990
Draymond Green had the luxury of playing along with 3 other superstar players in the past.

He can eat dog crap for dissing Paul Pierce. At least PP34 can lead his team with or without help.


#JTJB (Just Trade Jaylen Brown)
#JFJM (Just Fire Joe Mazzulla)

Re: Is draymond being exposed?
« Reply #5 on: December 10, 2019, 02:17:54 AM »

Offline MattyIce

  • Bailey Howell
  • **
  • Posts: 2202
  • Tommy Points: 740
Big time exposed. A lot of people theorized this is how green would perform if he lead a team on his own

Should be interesting to see if golden state re-signs him at how much?  And how his free agency overall goes

he just signed a 4 year 100 mill extension

Re: Is draymond being exposed?
« Reply #6 on: December 10, 2019, 02:29:37 AM »

Offline Somebody

  • Tiny Archibald
  • *******
  • Posts: 7816
  • Tommy Points: 560
  • STAND FIRM, SAY NO TO VIBE MEN
His qualities just aren't great at carrying poor teams. KG had a similar (but much more minor) problem when he was stuck with poor personnel in Minnesota, his passing, defence and shooting unlocked the potential of his teammates, but he couldn't ramp up his scoring if his teams needed a big time scorer who could score oodles of moderate to high efficiency points.

I think Draymond has declined from his 2015-2016 season (that year was nuts, he was a DPOY calibre defender who provided great complementary offensive value with efficient outside shooting on high volume and great passing), but he's still an All-NBA frontcourt player due to his defence (still insane) and passing (hasn't really declined).
Jaylen Brown for All-NBA

Re: Is draymond being exposed?
« Reply #7 on: December 10, 2019, 03:46:38 AM »

Offline RockinRyA

  • Rajon Rondo
  • *****
  • Posts: 5572
  • Tommy Points: 699
His qualities just aren't great at carrying poor teams. KG had a similar (but much more minor) problem when he was stuck with poor personnel in Minnesota, his passing, defence and shooting unlocked the potential of his teammates, but he couldn't ramp up his scoring if his teams needed a big time scorer who could score oodles of moderate to high efficiency points.

I think Draymond has declined from his 2015-2016 season (that year was nuts, he was a DPOY calibre defender who provided great complementary offensive value with efficient outside shooting on high volume and great passing), but he's still an All-NBA frontcourt player due to his defence (still insane) and passing (hasn't really declined).

This is crap. KG was an all-nba type of player even with mediocre teammates. The one season in minnesota where he got some borderline all-star teammates? He got MVP. Green is nowhere that.

Re: Is draymond being exposed?
« Reply #8 on: December 10, 2019, 05:17:58 AM »

Offline Somebody

  • Tiny Archibald
  • *******
  • Posts: 7816
  • Tommy Points: 560
  • STAND FIRM, SAY NO TO VIBE MEN
His qualities just aren't great at carrying poor teams. KG had a similar (but much more minor) problem when he was stuck with poor personnel in Minnesota, his passing, defence and shooting unlocked the potential of his teammates, but he couldn't ramp up his scoring if his teams needed a big time scorer who could score oodles of moderate to high efficiency points.

I think Draymond has declined from his 2015-2016 season (that year was nuts, he was a DPOY calibre defender who provided great complementary offensive value with efficient outside shooting on high volume and great passing), but he's still an All-NBA frontcourt player due to his defence (still insane) and passing (hasn't really declined).

This is crap. KG was an all-nba type of player even with mediocre teammates. The one season in minnesota where he got some borderline all-star teammates? He got MVP. Green is nowhere that.
That's why I said much more minor (Garnett could score really well, but he couldn't be an offensive anchor like Dirk/Duncan). What you're saying is crap if you don't see the similarities between prime Draymond and KG: both provided floor spacing, elite defence, great passing but imperfect scoring (obviously Draymond is much worse at scoring, that's why Garnett is an MVP player while Draymond is an All-NBA guy).

KG had difficulties in leading some Wolves teams that needed resilient playoff scoring to deep playoff runs while his contemporaries that had more floor-raising friendly games (Duncan, Dirk) lead some similar teams to deep playoff runs (eg. 03 Spurs, 06 Mavs). This is similar (although to a much larger degree) to what Draymond is experiencing right now: he's fantastic as a third/fourth banana in terms of scoring (KG would ideally be second, he's way better than Green at scoring) that'll raise the ceiling of teams through the roof, but will struggle to raise the floor of subpar teams that need a floor raiser who can do the heavy lifting, and in Draymond's case he can't do any significant floor raising at all due to his scoring regressing to craprastic levels (jumpshot is gone). This isn't Draymond getting exposed, this is him in the worst situation possible for his skillset. It doesnt change the fact that he's still an All-NBA calibre player (maybe All-Star if you look at him in a more negative light) due to his unique skillset, even after his regression into a non-shooter.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2019, 05:23:38 AM by Somebody »
Jaylen Brown for All-NBA

Re: Is draymond being exposed?
« Reply #9 on: December 10, 2019, 05:55:17 AM »

Offline Androslav

  • Jim Loscutoff
  • **
  • Posts: 2983
  • Tommy Points: 528
Dray is a high-level role player. Just like Rodman or Smart.
My opinion on him hasn't changed this year due to Warriors tanking and him being unmotivated.
"The joy of the balling under the rims."

Re: Is draymond being exposed?
« Reply #10 on: December 10, 2019, 07:23:33 AM »

Offline cman88

  • Rajon Rondo
  • *****
  • Posts: 5153
  • Tommy Points: 359
Dray is a high-level role player. Just like Rodman or Smart.
My opinion on him hasn't changed this year due to Warriors tanking and him being unmotivated.

yeah, imagine if everyone on the celtics went down and your best player was now marcus smart..thats essentially what happened here.

Re: Is draymond being exposed?
« Reply #11 on: December 10, 2019, 07:55:25 AM »

Offline CelticsWhat35

  • Jim Loscutoff
  • **
  • Posts: 2904
  • Tommy Points: 353
I feel like a lot of people talked about him as a top 15 player but he looks completely irrelevant without curry, Thompson and Durant. Is he any different than a Drummond, Vucevic or even Marcus smart?

Yes, he absolutely is and he’s exactly what I thought he’d be without a bunch of all stars.  He’s a good role player and any contending team would love to have a guy like him, but he’s not an all-star and he’s been vastly overrated by the media throughout his career.  I hope he picks up the tab whenever he goes out to dinner with Steph and Klay

Re: Is draymond being exposed?
« Reply #12 on: December 10, 2019, 08:03:24 AM »

Offline RockinRyA

  • Rajon Rondo
  • *****
  • Posts: 5572
  • Tommy Points: 699
His qualities just aren't great at carrying poor teams. KG had a similar (but much more minor) problem when he was stuck with poor personnel in Minnesota, his passing, defence and shooting unlocked the potential of his teammates, but he couldn't ramp up his scoring if his teams needed a big time scorer who could score oodles of moderate to high efficiency points.

I think Draymond has declined from his 2015-2016 season (that year was nuts, he was a DPOY calibre defender who provided great complementary offensive value with efficient outside shooting on high volume and great passing), but he's still an All-NBA frontcourt player due to his defence (still insane) and passing (hasn't really declined).

This is crap. KG was an all-nba type of player even with mediocre teammates. The one season in minnesota where he got some borderline all-star teammates? He got MVP. Green is nowhere that.
That's why I said much more minor (Garnett could score really well, but he couldn't be an offensive anchor like Dirk/Duncan). What you're saying is crap if you don't see the similarities between prime Draymond and KG: both provided floor spacing, elite defence, great passing but imperfect scoring (obviously Draymond is much worse at scoring, that's why Garnett is an MVP player while Draymond is an All-NBA guy).

KG had difficulties in leading some Wolves teams that needed resilient playoff scoring to deep playoff runs while his contemporaries that had more floor-raising friendly games (Duncan, Dirk) lead some similar teams to deep playoff runs (eg. 03 Spurs, 06 Mavs). This is similar (although to a much larger degree) to what Draymond is experiencing right now: he's fantastic as a third/fourth banana in terms of scoring (KG would ideally be second, he's way better than Green at scoring) that'll raise the ceiling of teams through the roof, but will struggle to raise the floor of subpar teams that need a floor raiser who can do the heavy lifting, and in Draymond's case he can't do any significant floor raising at all due to his scoring regressing to craprastic levels (jumpshot is gone). This isn't Draymond getting exposed, this is him in the worst situation possible for his skillset. It doesnt change the fact that he's still an All-NBA calibre player (maybe All-Star if you look at him in a more negative light) due to his unique skillset, even after his regression into a non-shooter.

Disagree. KG was very hard to guard, its just that he wasn't that too willing to shoot. The difference between the two is huge. He is inferior to KG in almost every tangible stat there is.

I see Draymond as a premium Marcus Smart, not as KG-lite. That is an insult to KG who is undoubtedly a top 5 player in his era (which Draymond is nowhere near)

Re: Is draymond being exposed?
« Reply #13 on: December 10, 2019, 08:07:03 AM »

Offline Fafnir

  • Bill Russell
  • ******************************
  • Posts: 30859
  • Tommy Points: 1327
I think part of it is that the NBA has changed and adapted to what Draymond does now. Going small and effectively guarding, the passing, the spacing, etc. Every team does this at least some of the game, most teams do it for the entire game. Somewhat similar to Kevin Love, the game moved in his direction such that he is no longer as special as he once was.

Now add in Draymond's own athletic and shooting decline and you have what we are seeing now.

Re: Is draymond being exposed?
« Reply #14 on: December 10, 2019, 08:40:52 AM »

Online Roy H.

  • Forums Manager
  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 58539
  • Tommy Points: -25636
  • Bo Knows: Joe Don't Know Diddley
I think the folks who had him as a top-15 player were always wrong.  Draymond has always been very bad at creating his own shot. He’s an elite role player, not a star.


I'M THE SILVERBACK GORILLA IN THIS MOTHER——— AND DON'T NONE OF YA'LL EVER FORGET IT!@ 34 minutes