CelticsStrong
Around the League => Around the NBA => Topic started by: smokeablount on August 03, 2018, 07:52:51 AM
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UPDATE 1/24: Memphis is 19-29 and the pick is #6 atm (5 teams worse).
The Grizzlies, 14th of 15 in the West, have 19 wins which is 6th worst, so the pick will roll over if it finishes top 8. Right now, 2 teams could jump Memphis in the lottery and it would still roll over, and if top 6 in 2020, it's unprotected in 2021.
Memphis is the NBA's 7th worst in net points (-3.4, -0.1 from 6th worst), 2nd worst in the West (SAC is 3rd worst at -2.0 vs the Mavs at 0.0 at 4th worst).
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We own the Memphis Grizzlies lottery pick this if it lands outside the top 8.
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The pick is top 8 protected, not top 10
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So no one had already started a thread for the Memphis Grizz? Wow, I thought there was one already.
How about a LAC watch thread? It's a possibility, though unlikely, the pick conveys this upcoming season. If Kawhi goes there next year then it's more likely to convey, obviously.
Back to the Grizz....it's going to be real close. I see them no worse than 6th, unless they suffer an injury to one of their key players. JJJ will make a difference, especially on defense. I see it's protected in 2020 from 1-6. I thought it was 1-3. Not sure why it only drops 2 spots. It's unprotected in 2021. Does anyone know if there are any good prospects in that draft :) Just kidding!
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I would rather have that pick roll over at least one more year if not two to being completely unprotected. It would likely be one of the better future trade assets in the league in that scenario, and we already are guaranteed at least two first round picks next year.
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I would rather have that pick roll over at least one more year if not two to being completely unprotected. It would likely be one of the better future trade assets in the league in that scenario, and we already are guaranteed at least two first round picks next year.
And given the age of that team, if things go badly enough for them to be bottom 8 this year, I think it would be safe to assume they'd still be a bottom feeding team for a few more seasons, so we'd actually have a shot at a good pick.
But I don't think their record last year is indicative of who that team really is. I think it's a lot more likely they win in the 42-43 game range (as they did they previous 2 years) and the pick winds up around the bottom of the lottery.
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I would rather have that pick roll over at least one more year if not two to being completely unprotected. It would likely be one of the better future trade assets in the league in that scenario, and we already are guaranteed at least two first round picks next year.
And given the age of that team, if things go badly enough for them to be bottom 8 this year, I think it would be safe to assume they'd still be a bottom feeding team for a few more seasons, so we'd actually have a shot at a good pick.
But I don't think their record last year is indicative of who that team really is. I think it's a lot more likely they win in the 42-43 game range (as they did they previous 2 years) and the pick winds up around the bottom of the lottery.
It looks like they're actually trying to make the playoffs. It wouldn't be a surprise at all to see them come up just short.
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The pick is top 8 protected, not top 10
Thanks, fixed my OP
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I would rather have that pick roll over at least one more year if not two to being completely unprotected. It would likely be one of the better future trade assets in the league in that scenario, and we already are guaranteed at least two first round picks next year.
Yeah, I feel like maybe this isn't a good draft to get a lower pick than we could in the next year or two, each of which could give us a higher pick in a better draft, even a double draft.
But as some others have said, if Memphis tries this year, their core of Conley-Brooks-JaMychal Green-Jackson Jr-Gasol could win 35-40 games and land as low as #12 or #13 if the team doesn't implode and finish horribly. If that happens, here's hoping the late lottery bigs look promising (Bol, Gafford, Porter, Bassey) or that the draft is deeper than expected.
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I would rather have that pick roll over at least one more year if not two to being completely unprotected. It would likely be one of the better future trade assets in the league in that scenario, and we already are guaranteed at least two first round picks next year.
I could not agree with you more. I could try, but indeed, it would not be possible.
Mike
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So no one had already started a thread for the Memphis Grizz? Wow, I thought there was one already.
How about a LAC watch thread? It's a possibility, though unlikely, the pick conveys this upcoming season. If Kawhi goes there next year then it's more likely to convey, obviously.
Back to the Grizz....it's going to be real close. I see them no worse than 6th, unless they suffer an injury to one of their key players. JJJ will make a difference, especially on defense. I see it's protected in 2020 from 1-6. I thought it was 1-3. Not sure why it only drops 2 spots. It's unprotected in 2021. Does anyone know if there are any good prospects in that draft :) Just kidding!
http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=96570.0
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So no one had already started a thread for the Memphis Grizz? Wow, I thought there was one already.
How about a LAC watch thread? It's a possibility, though unlikely, the pick conveys this upcoming season. If Kawhi goes there next year then it's more likely to convey, obviously.
Back to the Grizz....it's going to be real close. I see them no worse than 6th, unless they suffer an injury to one of their key players. JJJ will make a difference, especially on defense. I see it's protected in 2020 from 1-6. I thought it was 1-3. Not sure why it only drops 2 spots. It's unprotected in 2021. Does anyone know if there are any good prospects in that draft :) Just kidding!
http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=96570.0
+TP
Mike
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THIS is why we need pick watch threads to be official.
Yeah, the idea it's better to wait is super FOX news town cray.
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Does anyone have ESPN Insider to let us know Pelton's W-L and Standings projections for the Grizz and Kings?
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For the record:
2019 Top 8 Protected 1st round
2020 Top 6 Protected 1st round
2021 Unprotected 1st round
The pick becomes more valuable as time goes on. I am with those that prefer if this slides a year or two.
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Does anyone have ESPN Insider to let us know Pelton's W-L and Standings projections for the Grizz and Kings?
33 for the Griz and 25 for the Kings. Good for the 8th worst and 1st worst records in the league.
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Does anyone have ESPN Insider to let us know Pelton's W-L and Standings projections for the Grizz and Kings?
33 for the Griz and 25 for the Kings. Good for the 8th worst and 1st worst records in the league.
Seems we'll be on the edge of our seats all year lol.
Thanks
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Does anyone have ESPN Insider to let us know Pelton's W-L and Standings projections for the Grizz and Kings?
33 for the Griz and 25 for the Kings. Good for the 8th worst and 1st worst records in the league.
Isn't Pelton the guy who said his analytics revealed that Jaylen wasn't a top 100 college player in 2016? Do we trust this guy's projections for team season wins? How'd he do last year?
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My current 2018-19 NBA projections vs. the Vegas totals released today:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dj3o73wX0AEp3Sy.jpg:large)
https://twitter.com/JacobEGoldstein/status/1026232414190882816
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If we get 3 and 9 in this draft I will party 10 days in a row
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If we get 3 and 9 in this draft I will party 10 days in a row
Vegas has Sacto #2, Memphis I think I counted #9. That'd be huge if this draft doesn't suck.
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simular to nets lopez deal,
If Gasol stumbles twists a toe , their wins are gonna be few.
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Gasol’s and Conley’s health is fragile, and that can sway maybe 5 to 10 spots. Plus they lost a key player in Evans.
I don’t see a ton of separation from say the bottom 9 or 10 teams Suns, Kings, Mavs, Grizzlies, Hawks, Bulls, Magic, Nets, Knicks (no Porzingas to start the year), maybe Hornets and even Cavs (those players were fit to surround Lebron’s talents. They could easily fall apart). Maybe a few teams like the Bulls, Magic, and Mavs (I think they could have the biggest jump in this group) will surprise.
It could be similar to last year where there was a bunch of teams at the bottom of league around the same pace until late in the year where teams started to separate. I recall at one point last year there were several teams right around 18 wins including the Lakers before they pulled away.
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If we get 3 and 9 in this draft I will party 10 days in a row
Vegas has Sacto #2, Memphis I think I counted #9. That'd be huge if this draft doesn't suck.
Even if it isn't super strong, teams will be dying to trade for high picks.
Draft Zion as our future small ball 5 for the most fun team ever
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If we get 3 and 9 in this draft I will party 10 days in a row
Vegas has Sacto #2, Memphis I think I counted #9. That'd be huge if this draft doesn't suck.
Even if it isn't super strong, teams will be dying to trade for high picks.
Draft Zion as our future small ball 5 for the most fun team ever
I'm curious what we would trade high picks for. Package Smart, Yabu, Bird, filler ($20M+) and 1-2 picks for a stud, sign Rozier or let him walk, and go over the tax big-time either way?
That's the option I see, and ssuming Kyrie re-signs, it'd put us in a position to pay 4 guys max deals or close to it for the foreseeable future (Kyrie, new stud, Al -> JB, Hayward -> Tatum).
If we don't trade the high picks with salary for a stud, I'm not sure how we'd trade them for value without rolling them over to 2020 basically. But I could be ok with rolling them over.
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If Sacramento pick falls to 5th or 6th and Memphis lands 9th or 10th, it would be nice if Danny could package both picks for the first pick and land the best player in the draft. It would decease the amount of roster slots you would need to open up for so many picks and assure the Cs get the best talent to develop.
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If Sacramento pick falls to 5th or 6th and Memphis lands 9th or 10th, it would be nice if Danny could package both picks for the first pick and land the best player in the draft. It would decease the amount of roster slots you would need to open up for so many picks and assure the Cs get the best talent to develop.
I agree about the asset consolidation but my only concern with this is, if it's supposed to be a mediocre draft due to a lack of top end talent, there's a distinct possibility #1 might not be a ton better than #5. The hype is quiet for an NBA draft and scouts say everyone has warts.
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If Sacramento pick falls to 5th or 6th and Memphis lands 9th or 10th, it would be nice if Danny could package both picks for the first pick and land the best player in the draft. It would decease the amount of roster slots you would need to open up for so many picks and assure the Cs get the best talent to develop.
I don’t think that would be enough, to be honest. If there’s enough of a talent gap that we’d want to move up, surely the other team would not also want to move down.
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Tankathon game has Memphis at #11!
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Just posting their starting lineup tonight as a one-off since it's Game 1... the pick watch (top-8 protected) is LIVE! :)
PG Mike Conley
SG Garrett Temple
SF Chandler Parsons
PF JaMychal Green
C Marc Gasol
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Why is Chandler Parsons starting? Crazy.
Memphis is going for it but they didn't look good last night. The best case for the Celtics, I think, is that they sputter out of the gate and decide their best course is to blow it up and build around Jaren Jackson and their 2019 pick. I think the longer the pick rolls, the more valuable it becomes because the West is going to stay really competitive and any rebuild is going to take a number of years.
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5-2
Should convey as long Conley and Gasol stay healthy...
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5-2
Should convey as long Conley and Gasol stay healthy...
Yeah. Which is too bad. If they were to slip and be bad enough that it rolls over again, that pick would be incredibly valuable.
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Too bad Mitchell didn’t play last night for the Jazz against The Grizzlies.
I too hope the pick carries over, and eventually becomes a top 5 pick. I think our only hope is the west is so deep they are likely fall back, and in the east there are several bad teams that have to play each other more.
If it does say 9th pick or after I hope we can consolidate to get a top 3 pick. I’d love to see Zion on this team.
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5-2 is no big deal. Orlando and the Lakers started out hot last year and ended up deep in the lottery. Too many teams much better than Memphis in the West.
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Memphis defeated Denver 89-87. Jokic with only one field goal attempt.
Grizzlies now 6-4
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Utah defeated Memphis (7-5) 96-88. :)
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Memphis beat the Bucks last night to get to 8-5. It would help the C's so much for Memphis to suck but I can't help but root for them. Conley and Gasol just keep chugging along.
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Memphis beat the Bucks last night to get to 8-5. It would help the C's so much for Memphis to suck but I can't help but root for them. Conley and Gasol just keep chugging along.
They just seem to never quit. I love the Grit n Grind mantra, and I like Jaren Jackson
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Brevin Knight was furious at one point in the fourth about Giannis getting away with obvious traveling LOL
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5-2
Should convey as long Conley and Gasol stay healthy...
Yeah. Which is too bad. If they were to slip and be bad enough that it rolls over again, that pick would be incredibly valuable.
Here's hoping the Grizzlies somehow choke along with the Kings.
Having both very high lottery picks would help us in possibly obtaining AD.
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If Jaren Jackson continues to play as well as last night the Grizzlies pick will be just a few notches before our own pick.. :o
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They have no depth... the pick will be from 10 to 18... i think they will be out of playoffs in the end... warriors houston spurs clippers lakers jazz thunder and nuggets are better with depth
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5-2
Should convey as long Conley and Gasol stay healthy...
Yeah. Which is too bad. If they were to slip and be bad enough that it rolls over again, that pick would be incredibly valuable.
Here's hoping the Grizzlies somehow choke along with the Kings.
Having both very high lottery picks would help us in possibly obtaining AD.
Or at least moving up in the draft to grab Zion. ;D
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They have no depth... the pick will be from 10 to 18... i think they will be out of playoffs in the end... warriors houston spurs clippers lakers jazz thunder and nuggets are better with depth
The West isn't as good as it's been in the past but it's still deep with 45-ish win teams. So they can play pretty well and still wind up in the lottery.
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weekly update
know it's not a lot of fun to pick watch a competitive team on top of the top-8 restriction, but
Memphis 12-7, currently #23-24 slot
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weekly update
know it's not a lot of fun to pick watch a competitive team on top of the top-8 restriction, but
Memphis 12-7, currently #23-24 slot
Conley and Gasol are the new Stockton and Malone.
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weekly update
know it's not a lot of fun to pick watch a competitive team on top of the top-8 restriction, but
Memphis 12-7, currently #23-24 slot
Conley and Gasol are the new Stockton and Malone.
Slowest pace of play this season. Sacramento is second fastest, Hawks #1
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The Grizzlies success is not sustainable and I think that they'll start slowing falling back into the lottery in the upcoming weeks. Gasol and Conley have been playing at a really high level. However, the minutes they're receiving is going to have an effect as the season continues. Gasol is turning 34 in 2 months and he's averaging 35.1 MPG and 37.3 MPG over his last 10 games. Conley, who missed a lot of games the last couple of seasons, is at 33.6 MPG for the year and 35.7 MPG over his last 10 games. Conley has especially been asked to do a lot of heavy lifting in terms of chasing guards around the floor and during crunch time situations the ball is always in his hands looking for him to create. Again, those are some tough minutes even with a slower paced system.
The Grizzlies have lost 3 straight games (2 at home) and have a difficult upcoming schedule through the end of the calendar year.
Away - Nets
Away - Sixers
Home - Clippers
Away - Pelicans
Home - Lakers (second night of a back to back)
Away - Nuggets (third game in four days)
Home - Blazers (fourth game in six days)
Home - Heat (fifth game in eights days)
Home - Rockets (sixth game in nine days)
Away - Warriors
Away - Blazers
Away - Kings
Away - Lakers
Home - Cavs
Home - Celtics
Away - Rockets
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Embarrassing trade fallout
Dillon Brooks is currently injured, Oubre could have helped
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Gasol has any injury they ll loose every game he is gone
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Memphis (16-13) lost to Houston.
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Gasol has any injury they ll loose every game he is gone
If Conley has to miss a significant amount of time again, I'll immediately give up on this pick conveying in 2019 :P
He has already been dinged up a few times recently.
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So Memphis has been on the skids recently. As of now their pick will still convey (#13 as of now and it's has a top 8 protection), especially thanks to some horrible teams in the East.
Question is, will they tank if they keep losing and/or lose one of their better players to injury?
I know some of you want them to keep the pick this year so we can collect their pick either 2020 (top 6 protected) or 2021 (UNPROTECTED).
Which side are you on? Collect the pick this year (2019), next year (2020) or take our chances in 2021?
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They lost
18-17 and #13 pick position atm
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18-18 and #13 going into 2019...
Lost to HOU 101-113
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94-101 home loss to Detroit
Conley went scoreless
Record now 18-19, tied for #12 with Dallas
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Kinda want this pick to not convey this year. Will be an even more valuable trade chip for AD.
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The Memphis Grizzlies' emotional team meeting after loss to Detroit tonight turned physical in an altercation between veterans Garrett Temple and Omri Casspi in locker room
https://twitter.com/shamscharania/status/1080693315492814848?s=21
Chris Wallace says there will be internal discipline based on last night’s reported locker room incident but declined to specify what that meant. He also expressed displeasure that the story leaked and said that would also “be dealt with internally.”
https://twitter.com/herringtonnba/status/1080914229484433408?s=21
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Lost to Nets 100-109
18-20 record now after starting out 12-5
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Lost to Nets 100-109
18-20 record now after starting out 12-5
Weird to see a fracturing Grizzlies locker-room
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Either this pick conveys in the 9-10 range or it’s a valuable pick in 2020 still. As long as they don’t land stars in FA then it’s a win win either way :)
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Either this pick conveys in the 9-10 range or it’s a valuable pick in 2020 still. As long as they don’t land stars in FA then it’s a win win either way :)
That won't happen because of the contract of Chandler Parsons.
Nice to see that Parsons still has a valuable role in the NBA.
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Either this pick conveys in the 9-10 range or it’s a valuable pick in 2020 still. As long as they don’t land stars in FA then it’s a win win either way :)
That won't happen because of the contract of Chandler Parsons.
Nice to see that Parsons still has a valuable role in the NBA.
Parsons says he's medically cleared and ready to play but the Grizz won't let him.
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Either this pick conveys in the 9-10 range or it’s a valuable pick in 2020 still. As long as they don’t land stars in FA then it’s a win win either way :)
That won't happen because of the contract of Chandler Parsons.
Nice to see that Parsons still has a valuable role in the NBA.
Oh yeah, good point! They have about 100M in payroll for next year it seems (assuming Gasol opts in which he will), but I reckon they'll look to re-sign some guys and such so it looks unlikely they can add another star in FA. Maybe trade? But idk what their trade chips look like (their best ones are the ones who make way too much $$$ - similar to the Wall situation before he got hurt).
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Grizzlies (18-21) lost to the Spurs 88-108 and have now lost 12 of their last 15
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It’s been a great night between the Kings and the Griz losing
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Either this pick conveys in the 9-10 range or it’s a valuable pick in 2020 still. As long as they don’t land stars in FA then it’s a win win either way :)
That won't happen because of the contract of Chandler Parsons.
Nice to see that Parsons still has a valuable role in the NBA.
Oh yeah, good point! They have about 100M in payroll for next year it seems (assuming Gasol opts in which he will), but I reckon they'll look to re-sign some guys and such so it looks unlikely they can add another star in FA. Maybe trade? But idk what their trade chips look like (their best ones are the ones who make way too much $$$ - similar to the Wall situation before he got hurt).
Despite them starting hot this season, I've said since the beginning that the Grizz pick is the biggest wild card. We got it as a throw in (as opposed to the Kings pick which was the tatum/fultz trade) so the risk reward is huge.
Love to see that they can't add much if it does end up conveying in 2020. Might be a good spacing for picks/players as we take Kings/Clips/Our own 1st this year.
Thank you Danny ;D
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I really don’t think they can fall back to those brutal EC teams (Wall-less WAS, CHI, NYK, ATL, CLE) and PHX out west.
So they will be in that 7-10 range even if the wheels come off.
Not sure about this draft beyond the top 5 or so, so don’t know if it’s better it doesn’t convey and hope MEM begins the rebuild and in a couple years if may be a top-4 pick, or just take the ~10th pick now (for impact player or trade piece).
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Both nbaDraft.net and Tankathon Show us in position to take Bol Bol at the 10th pick
https://www.nbadraft.net/
Https://www.tankathon.com
Other players available could be jontay porter, Nassir little, garland, hunter
We are in a good position to upgrade our team next year if these picks convey in this 9-12 range. If Memphis doesn’t convey we still have a nice trade chip or potentially better pick next year
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Chandler Parsons will leave the Grizzles indefinitely as management and his agent James Dunleavy work to structure a resolution on Parsons’ future with franchise. Sides agreed on separation Sunday. Parsons has been medically cleared since Dec. 21.
https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1082032313163268096?s=21
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Either this pick conveys in the 9-10 range or it’s a valuable pick in 2020 still. As long as they don’t land stars in FA then it’s a win win either way :)
That won't happen because of the contract of Chandler Parsons.
Nice to see that Parsons still has a valuable role in the NBA.
Oh yeah, good point! They have about 100M in payroll for next year it seems (assuming Gasol opts in which he will), but I reckon they'll look to re-sign some guys and such so it looks unlikely they can add another star in FA. Maybe trade? But idk what their trade chips look like (their best ones are the ones who make way too much $$$ - similar to the Wall situation before he got hurt).
Despite them starting hot this season, I've said since the beginning that the Grizz pick is the biggest wild card. We got it as a throw in (as opposed to the Kings pick which was the tatum/fultz trade) so the risk reward is huge.
Love to see that they can't add much if it does end up conveying in 2020. Might be a good spacing for picks/players as we take Kings/Clips/Our own 1st this year.
Thank you Danny ;D
Disagree that the Memphis pick was a throw in. It was the main asset the Celtics wanted in the Jeff Green deal (yes, a first round pick for Jeff Green. We knew wherever the pick landed it was worth it).
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Both nbaDraft.net and Tankathon Show us in position to take Bol Bol at the 10th pick
https://www.nbadraft.net/
Https://www.tankathon.com
Other players available could be jontay porter, Nassir little, garland, hunter
We are in a good position to upgrade our team next year if these picks convey in this 9-12 range. If Memphis doesn’t convey we still have a nice trade chip or potentially better pick next year
Hunter is old, relatively, but he's a guy I want for the Celtics and their next generation of solid grit...If his shot improves, a great get.
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Both nbaDraft.net and Tankathon Show us in position to take Bol Bol at the 10th pick
https://www.nbadraft.net/
Https://www.tankathon.com
Other players available could be jontay porter, Nassir little, garland, hunter
We are in a good position to upgrade our team next year if these picks convey in this 9-12 range. If Memphis doesn’t convey we still have a nice trade chip or potentially better pick next year
Hunter is old, relatively, but he's a guy I want for the Celtics and their next generation of solid grit...If his shot improves, a great get.
I just went to the UVA Marshall game on New years Eve specifically to watch Hunter and I don't want him with a lottery pick. He's passive and not anything close to other former UVA players like Brogden or Anderson defensively. Maybe with our pick but not the Sacramento or Memphis picks.
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Both nbaDraft.net and Tankathon Show us in position to take Bol Bol at the 10th pick
https://www.nbadraft.net/
Https://www.tankathon.com
Other players available could be jontay porter, Nassir little, garland, hunter
We are in a good position to upgrade our team next year if these picks convey in this 9-12 range. If Memphis doesn’t convey we still have a nice trade chip or potentially better pick next year
Hunter is old, relatively, but he's a guy I want for the Celtics and their next generation of solid grit...If his shot improves, a great get.
I just went to the UVA Marshall game on New years Eve specifically to watch Hunter and I don't want him with a lottery pick. He's passive and not anything close to other former UVA players like Brogden or Anderson defensively. Maybe with our pick but not the Sacramento or Memphis picks.
Thanks for insight! TP. Not what I would've expected, though his draft range is quite large...anywhere from around 7 to late teens or even lower. Definitely some mixed opinions on him. A similar sized guy is Hachimura...but he also has is all over the mocks from quite high to 20 ish...
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This pick won't convey this year.
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This pick won't convey this year.
That's fine. Becomes a valuable asset for 2020 :)
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Lost to Pels 95-116
18-22, tied with DAL for 9 and 10 slots, #8 DET 17-21
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This pick won't convey this year.
If the Clippers pick conveys, I’m ok with this rolling over with less protection.
Would be nice sweetener as a future lottery pick for AD package.
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I think they have to offload Conley and Gasol soon.
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I hope this thing doesn't convey.
Too much of a potential logjam.
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I think they have to offload Conley and Gasol soon.
Like a year or two ago...
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This pick won't convey this year.
That's fine. Becomes a valuable asset for 2020 :)
Yep. This is kind of a win-win. The West playoff picture is a bloodbath so if it conveys this season, it's probably still in the lottery and could be top 10. If it doesn't convey, Gasol and Conley are another year older and the pick as an asset increases in value.
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This pick won't convey this year.
That's fine. Becomes a valuable asset for 2020 :)
Screw that. Give me an unprotected pick in 2021.
Mike
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Dillon Brooks out ROS.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DwfwNLRU8AAFovb.jpg:large)
link (https://twitter.com/GrizzliesPR/status/1083098667945463808)
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MEM (19-22) def. SAS 96-86
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I hope this thing doesn't convey.
Too much of a potential logjam.
agree. We dont need it right now and it will be more use to us in 2020
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I hope this thing doesn't convey.
Too much of a potential logjam.
agree. We dont need it right now and it will be more use to us in 2020
Can always kick it down the road by trading the pick for future picks... One in the hand is worth two in the bush. Memphis have hit big time in JJJ, they could make a sideways move and be right back in the playoffs and then the pick in 2021 is late first...
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Thread / OP updated at the top of Page 1.
Sorry for the hiatus, I will try and keep up.
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Jeff Green was officially traded for the MEM pick four years ago today.
Posted: Jan 12, 2015
The Memphis Grizzlies completed a three-team trade with the Boston Celtics and New Orleans Pelicans in which they acquired forward Jeff Green from Boston and guard Russ Smith from New Orleans. In exchange, Memphis traded forward Tayshaun Prince and a protected future first round draft pick to Boston and traded guard/forward Quincy Pondexter and a 2015 second round draft pick to New Orleans, Grizzlies General Manager Chris Wallace announced today. As part of the trade, New Orleans also has traded guard Austin Rivers to Boston. In addition, Memphis will receive a traded player exception.
nba.com (https://www.nba.com/grizzlies/news/grizzlies-acquire-green-smith-three-team-trade-150112)
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Jeff Green was officially traded for the MEM pick four years ago today.
Posted: Jan 12, 2015
The Memphis Grizzlies completed a three-team trade with the Boston Celtics and New Orleans Pelicans in which they acquired forward Jeff Green from Boston and guard Russ Smith from New Orleans. In exchange, Memphis traded forward Tayshaun Prince and a protected future first round draft pick to Boston and traded guard/forward Quincy Pondexter and a 2015 second round draft pick to New Orleans, Grizzlies General Manager Chris Wallace announced today. As part of the trade, New Orleans also has traded guard Austin Rivers to Boston. In addition, Memphis will receive a traded player exception.
nba.com (https://www.nba.com/grizzlies/news/grizzlies-acquire-green-smith-three-team-trade-150112)
Happy Anniversary!
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MIA def. MEM (19-23) 112-108
currently 9th pick
rooting for DET ORL and WAS... CHA the current EC #8 is 19-23
6. WAS 18-25
7. ORL 18-24
8. DET 18-23
9. MEM 19-23
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Grizzlies (19-24) lost to HOU 94-112. HOU was on SEGABABA.
Harden 57 points (17-18 FT). MEM defensive effort was horrible, many straight line drives...
One whisper making the rounds: Marc Gasol can become a free agent at season's and, amid a growing belief around the league that he will indeed exercise that option, Memphis could be moved to explore trading Gasol now rather than face the threat of losing him without compensation
Marc Stein - Twitter (https://twitter.com/TheSteinLine/status/1085029143933321217)
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UPDATE: Memphis is 19-24, 14 of 15 in the West.
The Grizzlies 19 wins is tied with Orlando for 8th worst, so if they can 'break this tie' and hold that position through the lottery, the pick will roll over (#1-8). They’re 9th worst in the NBA in point differential (-2).
Note: this is updated in the OP as well.
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https://dailymemphian.com/article/2451/Calkins-The-Grizzlies-are-a-mess-and-theres-no-easy-fix
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KEEP LOSING
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its getting ugly
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UPDATE: Memphis is 19-25, 14 of 15 in the West.
The Grizzlies 19 wins is tied with Orlando for 7th worst, so currently the pick is slated to roll over if no one passes them between now and the rest of the season, or in the lottery process (#1-8 rolls over).
They’re 9th worst in the NBA in point differential (-2.2), and 2nd worst in the West (Kings are 3rd worst, fwiw).
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If they trade Gasol, they probably have 5th or 6th worst record in NBA when season ends
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I hope this thing doesn't convey.
Too much of a potential logjam.
agree. We dont need it right now and it will be more use to us in 2020
Can always kick it down the road by trading the pick for future picks... One in the hand is worth two in the bush. Memphis have hit big time in JJJ, they could make a sideways move and be right back in the playoffs and then the pick in 2021 is late first...
Or they turn into Brooklyn. Hello #1 pick, 2021!
Mike
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Wow, just looked and the 111-101 score is deceiving. It was garbage time 108-79 at the 5:37 mark...
Just 1/2 game ahead of #6 WAS...
B2B coming up @BOS and @TOR
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These guys are probably done as far as Playoff contention. The only question now is whether or not the pick conveys or not.
I don't think it does. But we'll see.
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Start the Memphis Grizzlies 2019-20 Season Watch Thread. This Memphis team will easily finish in bottom 8 this year. Time to focus on next year.
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Start the Memphis Grizzlies 2019-20 Season Watch Thread. This Memphis team will easily finish in bottom 8 this year. Time to focus on next year.
Thank goodness we still have Sacramento. ;D
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Celtics are actually in good shape with that pick. Why? Because it looks like Memphis will be somewhere between 6th and 10th worst. Keep in mind that even in the 7th slot, the Celtics can still get that pick if two teams were to "jump" over them in the lottery. So either the Celtics get something close to #9 this year or it rolls over into an even better draft next year.
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That Memphis pick is just as golden as the Brooklyn picks were.
Sure we had very high hopes for Sacramento pick as well (and who knows, maybe we get lucky in the lottery), but Memphis really has few options to get better the coming years. It's downhill from now on.
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We pushed them to 6th worst
It took me about 30 tries on tankathon for this to convey to Celtics
Meaning we are where we want it to be.. It will roll over if they can stay this bad or worse
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We pushed them to 6th worst
It took me about 30 tries on tankathon for this to convey to Celtics
Meaning we are where we want it to be.. It will roll over if they can stay this bad or worse
I think I'd rather have it convey this year. Makes it a better pick to use in a trade for Davis (agree before draft, make trade when new year starts) and there are no guarantees of where it will eventually end up. Sure it might end up #1 in 2021 or it could end up in the teens in 2020 or 2021. Just too much unpredictability in those type of things.
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We pushed them to 6th worst
It took me about 30 tries on tankathon for this to convey to Celtics
Meaning we are where we want it to be.. It will roll over if they can stay this bad or worse
I think I'd rather have it convey this year. Makes it a better pick to use in a trade for Davis (agree before draft, make trade when new year starts) and there are no guarantees of where it will eventually end up. Sure it might end up #1 in 2021 or it could end up in the teens in 2020 or 2021. Just too much unpredictability in those type of things.
I'm not sure that's true. I guess it depends on how the Pelicans view it but if I were the Pelicans looking to rebuild, I'm seeing that the protections on the pick go down more next year and then go away the year after, I'm seeing a Western conference that is still stacked, Gasol and Conley are another year older. I think it becomes a more valuable asset if it rolls over a season.
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We pushed them to 6th worst
It took me about 30 tries on tankathon for this to convey to Celtics
Meaning we are where we want it to be.. It will roll over if they can stay this bad or worse
I think I'd rather have it convey this year. Makes it a better pick to use in a trade for Davis (agree before draft, make trade when new year starts) and there are no guarantees of where it will eventually end up. Sure it might end up #1 in 2021 or it could end up in the teens in 2020 or 2021. Just too much unpredictability in those type of things.
I'm not sure that's true. I guess it depends on how the Pelicans view it but if I were the Pelicans looking to rebuild, I'm seeing that the protections on the pick go down more next year and then go away the year after, I'm seeing a Western conference that is still stacked, Gasol and Conley are another year older. I think it becomes a more valuable asset if it rolls over a season.
true. Giving it more thought, also there's value in having picks in different years rather than a bunch this year. Having a shot in a different batch of prospects must have a decent market value. Most around the league, even the grizzlies themselves, believe grizz will be bad, so it's likely the pelicans believe the same and desire the rolled over pick
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We pushed them to 6th worst
It took me about 30 tries on tankathon for this to convey to Celtics
Meaning we are where we want it to be.. It will roll over if they can stay this bad or worse
I think I'd rather have it convey this year. Makes it a better pick to use in a trade for Davis (agree before draft, make trade when new year starts) and there are no guarantees of where it will eventually end up. Sure it might end up #1 in 2021 or it could end up in the teens in 2020 or 2021. Just too much unpredictability in those type of things.
I'm not sure that's true. I guess it depends on how the Pelicans view it but if I were the Pelicans looking to rebuild, I'm seeing that the protections on the pick go down more next year and then go away the year after, I'm seeing a Western conference that is still stacked, Gasol and Conley are another year older. I think it becomes a more valuable asset if it rolls over a season.
true. Giving it more thought, also there's value in having picks in different years rather than a bunch this year. Having a shot in a different batch of prospects must have a decent market value. Most around the league, even the grizzlies themselves, believe grizz will be bad, so it's likely the pelicans believe the same and desire the rolled over pick
That's a good point. They even traded 2 second rounders for Justin Holiday to get them a few more wins to let the pick convey this year. That's panic mode, but also the awareness that there's no route for the Grizzlies to become a playoff candidate the next 2 years.
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We pushed them to 6th worst
It took me about 30 tries on tankathon for this to convey to Celtics
Meaning we are where we want it to be.. It will roll over if they can stay this bad or worse
I think I'd rather have it convey this year. Makes it a better pick to use in a trade for Davis (agree before draft, make trade when new year starts) and there are no guarantees of where it will eventually end up. Sure it might end up #1 in 2021 or it could end up in the teens in 2020 or 2021. Just too much unpredictability in those type of things.
I'm not sure that's true. I guess it depends on how the Pelicans view it but if I were the Pelicans looking to rebuild, I'm seeing that the protections on the pick go down more next year and then go away the year after, I'm seeing a Western conference that is still stacked, Gasol and Conley are another year older. I think it becomes a more valuable asset if it rolls over a season.
true. Giving it more thought, also there's value in having picks in different years rather than a bunch this year. Having a shot in a different batch of prospects must have a decent market value. Most around the league, even the grizzlies themselves, believe grizz will be bad, so it's likely the pelicans believe the same and desire the rolled over pick
That's a good point. They even traded 2 second rounders for Justin Holiday to get them a few more wins to let the pick convey this year. That's panic mode, but also the awareness that there's no route for the Grizzlies to become a playoff candidate the next 2 years.
Someone during the tv broadcast last night, I believe it was Gorman, said that several teams are eying this pick and their interest in it would increase significantly if it does not convey this year.
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We pushed them to 6th worst
It took me about 30 tries on tankathon for this to convey to Celtics
Meaning we are where we want it to be.. It will roll over if they can stay this bad or worse
I think I'd rather have it convey this year. Makes it a better pick to use in a trade for Davis (agree before draft, make trade when new year starts) and there are no guarantees of where it will eventually end up. Sure it might end up #1 in 2021 or it could end up in the teens in 2020 or 2021. Just too much unpredictability in those type of things.
I'm not sure that's true. I guess it depends on how the Pelicans view it but if I were the Pelicans looking to rebuild, I'm seeing that the protections on the pick go down more next year and then go away the year after, I'm seeing a Western conference that is still stacked, Gasol and Conley are another year older. I think it becomes a more valuable asset if it rolls over a season.
This is so fact. All they really have is Jaren Jackson and a couple of other guys that don't really make this team good. They may get the 5th or 6th pick this but the draft isn't all that good so they may end up with a player that will keep them in lottery and possibly the very bottom 5 of the standings next year. I doubt that these 3 players, along with FA signings (what really good players want to come here?) will make enough of a contribution to not make this pick in 2021 a "Brooklyn-type" pick, meaning a top 5 pick. I think DA is hoping for the same thing.
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Outscored 45-14 in the third quarter. Score 100-62 after three. Garbage time began before the fourth. :o
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We pushed them to 6th worst
It took me about 30 tries on tankathon for this to convey to Celtics
Meaning we are where we want it to be.. It will roll over if they can stay this bad or worse
I think I'd rather have it convey this year. Makes it a better pick to use in a trade for Davis (agree before draft, make trade when new year starts) and there are no guarantees of where it will eventually end up. Sure it might end up #1 in 2021 or it could end up in the teens in 2020 or 2021. Just too much unpredictability in those type of things.
I'm not sure that's true. I guess it depends on how the Pelicans view it but if I were the Pelicans looking to rebuild, I'm seeing that the protections on the pick go down more next year and then go away the year after, I'm seeing a Western conference that is still stacked, Gasol and Conley are another year older. I think it becomes a more valuable asset if it rolls over a season.
This is so fact. All they really have is Jaren Jackson and a couple of other guys that don't really make this team good. They may get the 5th or 6th pick this but the draft isn't all that good so they may end up with a player that will keep them in lottery and possibly the very bottom 5 of the standings next year. I doubt that these 3 players, along with FA signings (what really good players want to come here?) will make enough of a contribution to not make this pick in 2021 a "Brooklyn-type" pick, meaning a top 5 pick. I think DA is hoping for the same thing.
Gasol will be gone after this year if not sooner
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We pushed them to 6th worst
It took me about 30 tries on tankathon for this to convey to Celtics
Meaning we are where we want it to be.. It will roll over if they can stay this bad or worse
I think I'd rather have it convey this year. Makes it a better pick to use in a trade for Davis (agree before draft, make trade when new year starts) and there are no guarantees of where it will eventually end up. Sure it might end up #1 in 2021 or it could end up in the teens in 2020 or 2021. Just too much unpredictability in those type of things.
I'm not sure that's true. I guess it depends on how the Pelicans view it but if I were the Pelicans looking to rebuild, I'm seeing that the protections on the pick go down more next year and then go away the year after, I'm seeing a Western conference that is still stacked, Gasol and Conley are another year older. I think it becomes a more valuable asset if it rolls over a season.
This is so fact. All they really have is Jaren Jackson and a couple of other guys that don't really make this team good. They may get the 5th or 6th pick this but the draft isn't all that good so they may end up with a player that will keep them in lottery and possibly the very bottom 5 of the standings next year. I doubt that these 3 players, along with FA signings (what really good players want to come here?) will make enough of a contribution to not make this pick in 2021 a "Brooklyn-type" pick, meaning a top 5 pick. I think DA is hoping for the same thing.
Gasol will be gone after this year if not sooner
I honestly do think it would be in their best interest to move him and Conley. Tank as hard as you can this year and next to get a couple of young pieces to put with Jaren Jackson and build around those guys. There just isn't really a path forward for them with Gasol and Conley and Jackson is on a totally different timeline.
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I guess we should start a '20-'21 Memphis season watch thread.
Here's the top prospects for that draft, since we'll have a top 5 pick lol.
# Player Pos. Player Report Comp. ↕
1 Jalen Green SG HT: 6-6 - WT: 175 - WING: 6-7 1/2 - FROM: Fresno, CA
Jalen Green might be the best prospect in high school basketball, regardless of class. He's a sensational athlete with truly elite leaping ability and a scorers mentality. He heads an insanely strong class, which projects as the best draft class in many years.
Comp: Kobe
2 Evan Mobley PF HT: 7-0 - WT: 192 - WING: 7-4 - FROM: Temecula, CA
A tall, long and bouncy big man who is making moves up boards and shows flashes of big time ability. Needs to get stronger and fill out his frame but has all the makings of a potential top 5 pick.
Comp: Myles Turner
3 R.J. Hampton PG HT: 6-4 - WT: 170 - WING: 6-7 - FROM: Little Elm, TX
Hampton is a dynamic PG who has great size for the position, an elite first step and a polished all around game. He can shoot from deep, get to the rim and he has the type of athletic ability and elite skill level only found in top 5 picks.
Comp: John Wall with a jumper
4 Isaiah Todd PF HT: 6-10 - WT: 200 - WING: 7-0 - FROM: Richmond, VA
Todd is a silky smooth and ultra talented power forward who plays a finesse game. He can shoot it with range, take his man off the bounce and use his awesome mobility and coordination to blow by defenders.
Comp: Chris Bosh
5 Jalen Johnson SF HT: 6-7 - WT: 200 - WING: 6-10 1/2 - FROM: Sun Prairie, WI
Jalen is a long and talented wing with great court awareness and legit point forward skills. He's a plus athlete who can really get off the floor and is lethal in transition.
Comp: Paul Pierce
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I think I'd rather have it convey this year. Makes it a better pick to use in a trade for Davis (agree before draft, make trade when new year starts) and there are no guarantees of where it will eventually end up. Sure it might end up #1 in 2021 or it could end up in the teens in 2020 or 2021. Just too much unpredictability in those type of things.
Yeah, agree it's safer to take it now assuming it's lottery at say #9 or #10. Reminds me of the poll last year: would you rather have Lakers 2018 #10 pick or SAC 2019 pick?
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Start the Memphis Grizzlies 2019-20 Season Watch Thread. This Memphis team will easily finish in bottom 8 this year. Time to focus on next year.
I guess we should start a '20-'21 Memphis season watch thread.
I haven't written off the season yet. :P The standings are still too bunched up.
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We pushed them to 6th worst
It took me about 30 tries on tankathon for this to convey to Celtics
Meaning we are where we want it to be.. It will roll over if they can stay this bad or worse
I think I'd rather have it convey this year. Makes it a better pick to use in a trade for Davis (agree before draft, make trade when new year starts) and there are no guarantees of where it will eventually end up. Sure it might end up #1 in 2021 or it could end up in the teens in 2020 or 2021. Just too much unpredictability in those type of things.
I'm not sure that's true. I guess it depends on how the Pelicans view it but if I were the Pelicans looking to rebuild, I'm seeing that the protections on the pick go down more next year and then go away the year after, I'm seeing a Western conference that is still stacked, Gasol and Conley are another year older. I think it becomes a more valuable asset if it rolls over a season.
I think they trade Gasol and Conley though and get assets for them. The Kings elevated pretty quickly without any super high picks, just by having a volume of young players and cap space. The Nets, without any top tier draft picks, went from the worst teams in the league to above .500 and the current 6th seed in the East very quickly, just by acquiring a volume of young players and drafting well (from the end of the 1st round). If the Grizzlies trade Gasol at the deadline this year and move on from Conley next summer, there is a pretty decent chance that the pick to Boston that conveys in 2021 won't be a very high pick. Certainty is often far more important to value then uncertainty.
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We pushed them to 6th worst
It took me about 30 tries on tankathon for this to convey to Celtics
Meaning we are where we want it to be.. It will roll over if they can stay this bad or worse
I think I'd rather have it convey this year. Makes it a better pick to use in a trade for Davis (agree before draft, make trade when new year starts) and there are no guarantees of where it will eventually end up. Sure it might end up #1 in 2021 or it could end up in the teens in 2020 or 2021. Just too much unpredictability in those type of things.
I'm not sure that's true. I guess it depends on how the Pelicans view it but if I were the Pelicans looking to rebuild, I'm seeing that the protections on the pick go down more next year and then go away the year after, I'm seeing a Western conference that is still stacked, Gasol and Conley are another year older. I think it becomes a more valuable asset if it rolls over a season.
true. Giving it more thought, also there's value in having picks in different years rather than a bunch this year. Having a shot in a different batch of prospects must have a decent market value. Most around the league, even the grizzlies themselves, believe grizz will be bad, so it's likely the pelicans believe the same and desire the rolled over pick
That's a good point. They even traded 2 second rounders for Justin Holiday to get them a few more wins to let the pick convey this year. That's panic mode, but also the awareness that there's no route for the Grizzlies to become a playoff candidate the next 2 years.
I disagree. I think that they are trying to make a full on tank a viable route to take. There is no point in that if they don't own their 2021 pick. If they own that pick, though it allows them a viable route to tank, which in fact gives them more options going forward.
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To do what BKN (or any good drafting team) did, IMO they need to part ways with Chris Wallace first.
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The problem with using the 2019 picks, the Celtics own, on an Anthony Davis trade is the Celts can't trade for Davis until after the draft.
So the Celts would still have to pick the players.
The question is would the Celts be picking for New Orleans?
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Unpopular opinion, but AD trade is just a pipe dream IMO
Water cooler talk
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Unpopular opinion, but AD trade is just a pipe dream IMO
Water cooler talk
I get that angle, but I think there’s far too much smoke for there to not be a fire
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Unpopular opinion, but AD trade is just a pipe dream IMO
Fun water cooler talk
I disagree. The Celtics need to be determined and creative, but they have the assets to pull it off. I'm certain that the Pelicans will have no other way than to trade Davis this summer. They've missed their chances to build around him.
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If AD will not sign a max extension with the Pels then AD to the Celts will not be a pipe dream anymore.
The Celts have the best assets available.
If the 2019 Memphis doesn't convey this year then it becomes more valuable.
A combination of picks and young players, that's what the Pels would want.
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We pushed them to 6th worst
It took me about 30 tries on tankathon for this to convey to Celtics
Meaning we are where we want it to be.. It will roll over if they can stay this bad or worse
I think I'd rather have it convey this year. Makes it a better pick to use in a trade for Davis (agree before draft, make trade when new year starts) and there are no guarantees of where it will eventually end up. Sure it might end up #1 in 2021 or it could end up in the teens in 2020 or 2021. Just too much unpredictability in those type of things.
I'm not sure that's true. I guess it depends on how the Pelicans view it but if I were the Pelicans looking to rebuild, I'm seeing that the protections on the pick go down more next year and then go away the year after, I'm seeing a Western conference that is still stacked, Gasol and Conley are another year older. I think it becomes a more valuable asset if it rolls over a season.
I think they trade Gasol and Conley though and get assets for them. The Kings elevated pretty quickly without any super high picks, just by having a volume of young players and cap space. The Nets, without any top tier draft picks, went from the worst teams in the league to above .500 and the current 6th seed in the East very quickly, just by acquiring a volume of young players and drafting well (from the end of the 1st round). If the Grizzlies trade Gasol at the deadline this year and move on from Conley next summer, there is a pretty decent chance that the pick to Boston that conveys in 2021 won't be a very high pick. Certainty is often far more important to value then uncertainty.
It took the Nets a while after the Pierce KG trade as we were netting top picks from them for a few years.
The Kings turned it around rather quickly but they did draft 2 top 5 picks Fox and Bagley as part of their core as well as having the return of the Cousins trade. Gasol might be leaving in free agency in which case they get nothing back in a trade. They could get solid pieces back for Conley, but it could be more draft picks, than ready now players. Plus the west is loaded. We’ll see.
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The problem with using the 2019 picks, the Celtics own, on an Anthony Davis trade is the Celts can't trade for Davis until after the draft.
So the Celts would still have to pick the players.
The question is would the Celts be picking for New Orleans?
Of course they would.
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The problem with using the 2019 picks, the Celtics own, on an Anthony Davis trade is the Celts can't trade for Davis until after the draft.
So the Celts would still have to pick the players.
The question is would the Celts be picking for New Orleans?
Of course they would.
Yeah, it happens all the time. It’s not a binding trade, but front offices know better than to back out.
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We pushed them to 6th worst
It took me about 30 tries on tankathon for this to convey to Celtics
Meaning we are where we want it to be.. It will roll over if they can stay this bad or worse
I think I'd rather have it convey this year. Makes it a better pick to use in a trade for Davis (agree before draft, make trade when new year starts) and there are no guarantees of where it will eventually end up. Sure it might end up #1 in 2021 or it could end up in the teens in 2020 or 2021. Just too much unpredictability in those type of things.
I'm not sure that's true. I guess it depends on how the Pelicans view it but if I were the Pelicans looking to rebuild, I'm seeing that the protections on the pick go down more next year and then go away the year after, I'm seeing a Western conference that is still stacked, Gasol and Conley are another year older. I think it becomes a more valuable asset if it rolls over a season.
I think they trade Gasol and Conley though and get assets for them. The Kings elevated pretty quickly without any super high picks, just by having a volume of young players and cap space. The Nets, without any top tier draft picks, went from the worst teams in the league to above .500 and the current 6th seed in the East very quickly, just by acquiring a volume of young players and drafting well (from the end of the 1st round). If the Grizzlies trade Gasol at the deadline this year and move on from Conley next summer, there is a pretty decent chance that the pick to Boston that conveys in 2021 won't be a very high pick. Certainty is often far more important to value then uncertainty.
It took the Nets a while after the Pierce KG trade as we were netting top picks from them for a few years.
The Kings turned it around rather quickly but they did draft 2 top 5 picks Fox and Bagley as part of their core as well as having the return of the Cousins trade. Gasol might be leaving in free agency in which case they get nothing back in a trade. They could get solid pieces back for Conley, but it could be more draft picks, than ready now players. Plus the west is loaded. We’ll see.
I said they would trade Gasol at the deadline. They then trade Conley either at the deadline or in the summer. Probably get at least a couple of 1st's in those trades as well as some potential young players. They would likely get a top 5 pick with their own pick the next 2 seasons, use cap space to pick up more picks, etc. and can turn it around much like the Kings did.
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Down 15 with 3 minutes left against an AD-less Pelicans. Let Okafor drop 20/10.
Gasol checked out mid-way through last season. Dude looks completely out of it now as well. Need to get him out of there. Conley has been good the entire year.
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The 2019 Memphis pick becomes more valuable with every Memphis loss this season.
Good for the Celts.
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The 2019 Memphis pick becomes more valuable with every Memphis loss this season.
Good for the Celts.
Eh, it's not so cut and dry.
First, the pick is top 8 protected. So if you're hoping for the pick to convey this season, there's a fine line between losing and too much losing.
But if you think it's better the pick gets pushed back, then sure, you want Memphis to lose as many games as possible.
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The 2019 Memphis pick becomes more valuable with every Memphis loss this season.
Good for the Celts.
Eh, it's not so cut and dry.
First, the pick is top 8 protected. So if you're hoping for the pick to convey this season, there's a fine line between losing and too much losing.
But if you think it's better the pick gets pushed back, then sure, you want Memphis to lose as many games as possible.
I don't want the pick this year.
A 2021 unprotected pick is the best case scenario.
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The 2019 Memphis pick becomes more valuable with every Memphis loss this season.
Good for the Celts.
Eh, it's not so cut and dry.
First, the pick is top 8 protected. So if you're hoping for the pick to convey this season, there's a fine line between losing and too much losing.
But if you think it's better the pick gets pushed back, then sure, you want Memphis to lose as many games as possible.
I don't want the pick this year.
A 2021 unprotected pick is the best case scenario.
Maybe...
Or by then the team has turned it around and we end up with a non-lottery pick.
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The 2019 Memphis pick becomes more valuable with every Memphis loss this season.
Good for the Celts.
Eh, it's not so cut and dry.
First, the pick is top 8 protected. So if you're hoping for the pick to convey this season, there's a fine line between losing and too much losing.
But if you think it's better the pick gets pushed back, then sure, you want Memphis to lose as many games as possible.
I don't want the pick this year.
A 2021 unprotected pick is the best case scenario.
Maybe...
Or by then the team has turned it around and we end up with a non-lottery pick.
Hard to see how they could turn it around in 2 years with their 2 best players being age 30 and 34. The West isn't going to get easier.
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The 2019 Memphis pick becomes more valuable with every Memphis loss this season.
Good for the Celts.
Eh, it's not so cut and dry.
First, the pick is top 8 protected. So if you're hoping for the pick to convey this season, there's a fine line between losing and too much losing.
But if you think it's better the pick gets pushed back, then sure, you want Memphis to lose as many games as possible.
I don't want the pick this year.
A 2021 unprotected pick is the best case scenario.
Maybe...
Or by then the team has turned it around and we end up with a non-lottery pick.
Hard to see how they could turn it around in 2 years with their 2 best players being age 30 and 34. The West isn't going to get easier.
I agree, but also know that a lot can change in two years. They could be a low lottery team rather than high lottery.
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The 2019 Memphis pick becomes more valuable with every Memphis loss this season.
Good for the Celts.
Eh, it's not so cut and dry.
First, the pick is top 8 protected. So if you're hoping for the pick to convey this season, there's a fine line between losing and too much losing.
But if you think it's better the pick gets pushed back, then sure, you want Memphis to lose as many games as possible.
I don't want the pick this year.
A 2021 unprotected pick is the best case scenario.
Maybe...
Or by then the team has turned it around and we end up with a non-lottery pick.
Hard to see how they could turn it around in 2 years with their 2 best players being age 30 and 34. The West isn't going to get easier.
hard to predict this stuff. When we made that trade with Philly I was already pointing out that the kings could end better in two years and it looks like they are. Stuff can change quick. But yeah, you gotta figure Memphis is going to bottom out the next couple seasons.
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The 2019 Memphis pick becomes more valuable with every Memphis loss this season.
Good for the Celts.
Eh, it's not so cut and dry.
First, the pick is top 8 protected. So if you're hoping for the pick to convey this season, there's a fine line between losing and too much losing.
But if you think it's better the pick gets pushed back, then sure, you want Memphis to lose as many games as possible.
I don't want the pick this year.
A 2021 unprotected pick is the best case scenario.
Maybe...
Or by then the team has turned it around and we end up with a non-lottery pick.
Hard to see how they could turn it around in 2 years with their 2 best players being age 30 and 34. The West isn't going to get easier.
hard to predict this stuff. When we made that trade with Philly I was already pointing out that the kings could end better in two years and it looks like they are. Stuff can change quick. But yeah, you gotta figure Memphis is going to bottom out the next couple seasons.
I trust you my god
-
The 2019 Memphis pick becomes more valuable with every Memphis loss this season.
Good for the Celts.
Eh, it's not so cut and dry.
First, the pick is top 8 protected. So if you're hoping for the pick to convey this season, there's a fine line between losing and too much losing.
But if you think it's better the pick gets pushed back, then sure, you want Memphis to lose as many games as possible.
I don't want the pick this year.
A 2021 unprotected pick is the best case scenario.
Maybe...
Or by then the team has turned it around and we end up with a non-lottery pick.
Hard to see how they could turn it around in 2 years with their 2 best players being age 30 and 34. The West isn't going to get easier.
Tazz this is the first thing we have agreed on in a long time. Tp
-
The 2019 Memphis pick becomes more valuable with every Memphis loss this season.
Good for the Celts.
Eh, it's not so cut and dry.
First, the pick is top 8 protected. So if you're hoping for the pick to convey this season, there's a fine line between losing and too much losing.
But if you think it's better the pick gets pushed back, then sure, you want Memphis to lose as many games as possible.
I don't want the pick this year.
A 2021 unprotected pick is the best case scenario.
Maybe...
Or by then the team has turned it around and we end up with a non-lottery pick.
Hard to see how they could turn it around in 2 years with their 2 best players being age 30 and 34. The West isn't going to get easier.
Tazz this is the first thing we have agreed on in a long time. Tp
Is there a team in a worse situation than Memphis?
-
The 2019 Memphis pick becomes more valuable with every Memphis loss this season.
Good for the Celts.
Eh, it's not so cut and dry.
First, the pick is top 8 protected. So if you're hoping for the pick to convey this season, there's a fine line between losing and too much losing.
But if you think it's better the pick gets pushed back, then sure, you want Memphis to lose as many games as possible.
I don't want the pick this year.
A 2021 unprotected pick is the best case scenario.
Maybe...
Or by then the team has turned it around and we end up with a non-lottery pick.
The middle ground is getting the pick in 2020.
It's top 6 protected.
I don't think Memphis will be good next season.
Most probably they're going to lose Gasol in the summer.
-
It really doesn't matter if memphis turns it around in 2 years or not. We don't have space on the roster for 4 first round picks this year, and we want to offer a diverse set of picks in an AD trade offer. Future picks mixed with the upcoming picks is a good setup for a trade package
The only thing that matters is the perceived value of the pick. At the moment, things don't look good for memphis. Remember the nets pick? Was perceived to be indisputably a top 3 pick, but we ended up trading what was Collin Sexton for Kyrie
-
The 2019 Memphis pick becomes more valuable with every Memphis loss this season.
Good for the Celts.
Eh, it's not so cut and dry.
First, the pick is top 8 protected. So if you're hoping for the pick to convey this season, there's a fine line between losing and too much losing.
But if you think it's better the pick gets pushed back, then sure, you want Memphis to lose as many games as possible.
I don't want the pick this year.
A 2021 unprotected pick is the best case scenario.
Maybe...
Or by then the team has turned it around and we end up with a non-lottery pick.
Hard to see how they could turn it around in 2 years with their 2 best players being age 30 and 34. The West isn't going to get easier.
Tazz this is the first thing we have agreed on in a long time. Tp
Is there a team in a worse situation than Memphis?
Detroit?
-
The 2019 Memphis pick becomes more valuable with every Memphis loss this season.
Good for the Celts.
Eh, it's not so cut and dry.
First, the pick is top 8 protected. So if you're hoping for the pick to convey this season, there's a fine line between losing and too much losing.
But if you think it's better the pick gets pushed back, then sure, you want Memphis to lose as many games as possible.
I don't want the pick this year.
A 2021 unprotected pick is the best case scenario.
Maybe...
Or by then the team has turned it around and we end up with a non-lottery pick.
Hard to see how they could turn it around in 2 years with their 2 best players being age 30 and 34. The West isn't going to get easier.
Tazz this is the first thing we have agreed on in a long time. Tp
Is there a team in a worse situation than Memphis?
Detroit?
Charlotte. Washington. Cleveland. Detroit
None of those teams have premier young talent, are riddled with bad contracts, have players injured, and even Cleveland has protections on its 1st for 2 seasons (though it changes to a 2nd if it doesn't transfer).
Gasol and Conley still have decent trade value. The Grizzlies could move them and rebuild rather easily. Rebuild might take some time and with the pick protections it complicates things, but I don't think they are in a completely dire situation either.
-
The 2019 Memphis pick becomes more valuable with every Memphis loss this season.
Good for the Celts.
Eh, it's not so cut and dry.
First, the pick is top 8 protected. So if you're hoping for the pick to convey this season, there's a fine line between losing and too much losing.
But if you think it's better the pick gets pushed back, then sure, you want Memphis to lose as many games as possible.
I don't want the pick this year.
A 2021 unprotected pick is the best case scenario.
Maybe...
Or by then the team has turned it around and we end up with a non-lottery pick.
Hard to see how they could turn it around in 2 years with their 2 best players being age 30 and 34. The West isn't going to get easier.
Tazz this is the first thing we have agreed on in a long time. Tp
Is there a team in a worse situation than Memphis?
Detroit?
Charlotte. Washington. Cleveland. Detroit
None of those teams have premier young talent, are riddled with bad contracts, have players injured, and even Cleveland has protections on its 1st for 2 seasons (though it changes to a 2nd if it doesn't transfer).
Gasol and Conley still have decent trade value. The Grizzlies could move them and rebuild rather easily. Rebuild might take some time and with the pick protections it complicates things, but I don't think they are in a completely dire situation either.
Cleveland is OK. They're tanking and if Kevin Love comes back he's a tradeable asset. All their bad contracts will be off the book by the time they're read to get back into the free agent market. I think they're fine.
Washington has real talent on their roster, their only problem is Wall. Which is a big one.
Detroit and Charlotte, though, are in bad shape. Them and Memphis have to be the worst 3 situation in the league.
-
The 2019 Memphis pick becomes more valuable with every Memphis loss this season.
Good for the Celts.
Eh, it's not so cut and dry.
First, the pick is top 8 protected. So if you're hoping for the pick to convey this season, there's a fine line between losing and too much losing.
But if you think it's better the pick gets pushed back, then sure, you want Memphis to lose as many games as possible.
I don't want the pick this year.
A 2021 unprotected pick is the best case scenario.
Maybe...
Or by then the team has turned it around and we end up with a non-lottery pick.
Hard to see how they could turn it around in 2 years with their 2 best players being age 30 and 34. The West isn't going to get easier.
Tazz this is the first thing we have agreed on in a long time. Tp
Is there a team in a worse situation than Memphis?
Detroit?
Charlotte. Washington. Cleveland. Detroit
None of those teams have premier young talent, are riddled with bad contracts, have players injured, and even Cleveland has protections on its 1st for 2 seasons (though it changes to a 2nd if it doesn't transfer).
Gasol and Conley still have decent trade value. The Grizzlies could move them and rebuild rather easily. Rebuild might take some time and with the pick protections it complicates things, but I don't think they are in a completely dire situation either.
Cleveland is OK. They're tanking and if Kevin Love comes back he's a tradeable asset. All their bad contracts will be off the book by the time they're read to get back into the free agent market. I think they're fine.
Washington has real talent on their roster, their only problem is Wall. Which is a big one.
Detroit and Charlotte, though, are in bad shape. Them and Memphis have to be the worst 3 situation in the league.
Memphis has real talent on its roster. Gasol and Conley have value and Jackson was just a top 4 pick (and he wasn't a reach). Parsons is a bad contract no doubt, but he comes off after 19/20 and in 20/21 they only have Jackson, Anderson, and Conley's player option on the books, so if they move Conley they will be flush with cap space entering that season. They likely won't own their 2021 pick (as I expect them to try to tank the next 2 seasons), but if they draft correctly and trade off Gasol and Conley, I think they could certainly be a decent team in the 20/21 season and transfer a late lottery type pick to Boston. They need to just bite the bullet and trade Gasol at the deadline and make it known Conley is available as well (they don't need to trade him until the summer though).
-
The 2019 Memphis pick becomes more valuable with every Memphis loss this season.
Good for the Celts.
Eh, it's not so cut and dry.
First, the pick is top 8 protected. So if you're hoping for the pick to convey this season, there's a fine line between losing and too much losing.
But if you think it's better the pick gets pushed back, then sure, you want Memphis to lose as many games as possible.
I don't want the pick this year.
A 2021 unprotected pick is the best case scenario.
Maybe...
Or by then the team has turned it around and we end up with a non-lottery pick.
Hard to see how they could turn it around in 2 years with their 2 best players being age 30 and 34. The West isn't going to get easier.
Tazz this is the first thing we have agreed on in a long time. Tp
Is there a team in a worse situation than Memphis?
Detroit?
Charlotte. Washington. Cleveland. Detroit
None of those teams have premier young talent, are riddled with bad contracts, have players injured, and even Cleveland has protections on its 1st for 2 seasons (though it changes to a 2nd if it doesn't transfer).
Gasol and Conley still have decent trade value. The Grizzlies could move them and rebuild rather easily. Rebuild might take some time and with the pick protections it complicates things, but I don't think they are in a completely dire situation either.
Cleveland is OK. They're tanking and if Kevin Love comes back he's a tradeable asset. All their bad contracts will be off the book by the time they're read to get back into the free agent market. I think they're fine.
Washington has real talent on their roster, their only problem is Wall. Which is a big one.
Detroit and Charlotte, though, are in bad shape. Them and Memphis have to be the worst 3 situation in the league.
Detroit, Charlotte and Washington are all contending for a playoff spot in the East. Are any of them under threat of being moved? Are any of them under the financial constraints that Memphis has as a small market?
-
The 2019 Memphis pick becomes more valuable with every Memphis loss this season.
Good for the Celts.
Eh, it's not so cut and dry.
First, the pick is top 8 protected. So if you're hoping for the pick to convey this season, there's a fine line between losing and too much losing.
But if you think it's better the pick gets pushed back, then sure, you want Memphis to lose as many games as possible.
I don't want the pick this year.
A 2021 unprotected pick is the best case scenario.
Maybe...
Or by then the team has turned it around and we end up with a non-lottery pick.
Hard to see how they could turn it around in 2 years with their 2 best players being age 30 and 34. The West isn't going to get easier.
Tazz this is the first thing we have agreed on in a long time. Tp
Is there a team in a worse situation than Memphis?
Detroit?
Charlotte. Washington. Cleveland. Detroit
None of those teams have premier young talent, are riddled with bad contracts, have players injured, and even Cleveland has protections on its 1st for 2 seasons (though it changes to a 2nd if it doesn't transfer).
Gasol and Conley still have decent trade value. The Grizzlies could move them and rebuild rather easily. Rebuild might take some time and with the pick protections it complicates things, but I don't think they are in a completely dire situation either.
Cleveland is OK. They're tanking and if Kevin Love comes back he's a tradeable asset. All their bad contracts will be off the book by the time they're read to get back into the free agent market. I think they're fine.
Washington has real talent on their roster, their only problem is Wall. Which is a big one.
Detroit and Charlotte, though, are in bad shape. Them and Memphis have to be the worst 3 situation in the league.
Memphis has real talent on its roster. Gasol and Conley have value and Jackson was just a top 4 pick (and he wasn't a reach). Parsons is a bad contract no doubt, but he comes off after 19/20 and in 20/21 they only have Jackson, Anderson, and Conley's player option on the books, so if they move Conley they will be flush with cap space entering that season. They likely won't own their 2021 pick (as I expect them to try to tank the next 2 seasons), but if they draft correctly and trade off Gasol and Conley, I think they could certainly be a decent team in the 20/21 season and transfer a late lottery type pick to Boston. They need to just bite the bullet and trade Gasol at the deadline and make it known Conley is available as well (they don't need to trade him until the summer though).
This isn't accurate.
Zach Lowe:
Was talking to a couple of GMs today that both said the next 2-3 weeks would prove unusually important in determining which teams in the middle become buyers/sellers. Memphis getting ahead of it given current slump.
Memphis was always going to be a buyer considering they owe Boston a top-8 protected first-round pick that otherwise rolls over. They want to get that obligation over with this season, and obviously pass along as low a pick as possible.
-
The 2019 Memphis pick becomes more valuable with every Memphis loss this season.
Good for the Celts.
Eh, it's not so cut and dry.
First, the pick is top 8 protected. So if you're hoping for the pick to convey this season, there's a fine line between losing and too much losing.
But if you think it's better the pick gets pushed back, then sure, you want Memphis to lose as many games as possible.
I don't want the pick this year.
A 2021 unprotected pick is the best case scenario.
Maybe...
Or by then the team has turned it around and we end up with a non-lottery pick.
Hard to see how they could turn it around in 2 years with their 2 best players being age 30 and 34. The West isn't going to get easier.
Tazz this is the first thing we have agreed on in a long time. Tp
Is there a team in a worse situation than Memphis?
Detroit?
Charlotte. Washington. Cleveland. Detroit
None of those teams have premier young talent, are riddled with bad contracts, have players injured, and even Cleveland has protections on its 1st for 2 seasons (though it changes to a 2nd if it doesn't transfer).
Gasol and Conley still have decent trade value. The Grizzlies could move them and rebuild rather easily. Rebuild might take some time and with the pick protections it complicates things, but I don't think they are in a completely dire situation either.
Cleveland is OK. They're tanking and if Kevin Love comes back he's a tradeable asset. All their bad contracts will be off the book by the time they're read to get back into the free agent market. I think they're fine.
Washington has real talent on their roster, their only problem is Wall. Which is a big one.
Detroit and Charlotte, though, are in bad shape. Them and Memphis have to be the worst 3 situation in the league.
Memphis has real talent on its roster. Gasol and Conley have value and Jackson was just a top 4 pick (and he wasn't a reach). Parsons is a bad contract no doubt, but he comes off after 19/20 and in 20/21 they only have Jackson, Anderson, and Conley's player option on the books, so if they move Conley they will be flush with cap space entering that season. They likely won't own their 2021 pick (as I expect them to try to tank the next 2 seasons), but if they draft correctly and trade off Gasol and Conley, I think they could certainly be a decent team in the 20/21 season and transfer a late lottery type pick to Boston. They need to just bite the bullet and trade Gasol at the deadline and make it known Conley is available as well (they don't need to trade him until the summer though).
This isn't accurate.
Zach Lowe:
Was talking to a couple of GMs today that both said the next 2-3 weeks would prove unusually important in determining which teams in the middle become buyers/sellers. Memphis getting ahead of it given current slump.
Memphis was always going to be a buyer considering they owe Boston a top-8 protected first-round pick that otherwise rolls over. They want to get that obligation over with this season, and obviously pass along as low a pick as possible.
The question is, who is available that gets them out of the bottom eight? And what assets do they have to land that player?
-
The 2019 Memphis pick becomes more valuable with every Memphis loss this season.
Good for the Celts.
Eh, it's not so cut and dry.
First, the pick is top 8 protected. So if you're hoping for the pick to convey this season, there's a fine line between losing and too much losing.
But if you think it's better the pick gets pushed back, then sure, you want Memphis to lose as many games as possible.
I don't want the pick this year.
A 2021 unprotected pick is the best case scenario.
Maybe...
Or by then the team has turned it around and we end up with a non-lottery pick.
Hard to see how they could turn it around in 2 years with their 2 best players being age 30 and 34. The West isn't going to get easier.
Tazz this is the first thing we have agreed on in a long time. Tp
Is there a team in a worse situation than Memphis?
Detroit?
Charlotte. Washington. Cleveland. Detroit
None of those teams have premier young talent, are riddled with bad contracts, have players injured, and even Cleveland has protections on its 1st for 2 seasons (though it changes to a 2nd if it doesn't transfer).
Gasol and Conley still have decent trade value. The Grizzlies could move them and rebuild rather easily. Rebuild might take some time and with the pick protections it complicates things, but I don't think they are in a completely dire situation either.
Cleveland is OK. They're tanking and if Kevin Love comes back he's a tradeable asset. All their bad contracts will be off the book by the time they're read to get back into the free agent market. I think they're fine.
Washington has real talent on their roster, their only problem is Wall. Which is a big one.
Detroit and Charlotte, though, are in bad shape. Them and Memphis have to be the worst 3 situation in the league.
Memphis has real talent on its roster. Gasol and Conley have value and Jackson was just a top 4 pick (and he wasn't a reach). Parsons is a bad contract no doubt, but he comes off after 19/20 and in 20/21 they only have Jackson, Anderson, and Conley's player option on the books, so if they move Conley they will be flush with cap space entering that season. They likely won't own their 2021 pick (as I expect them to try to tank the next 2 seasons), but if they draft correctly and trade off Gasol and Conley, I think they could certainly be a decent team in the 20/21 season and transfer a late lottery type pick to Boston. They need to just bite the bullet and trade Gasol at the deadline and make it known Conley is available as well (they don't need to trade him until the summer though).
This isn't accurate.
Zach Lowe:
Was talking to a couple of GMs today that both said the next 2-3 weeks would prove unusually important in determining which teams in the middle become buyers/sellers. Memphis getting ahead of it given current slump.
Memphis was always going to be a buyer considering they owe Boston a top-8 protected first-round pick that otherwise rolls over. They want to get that obligation over with this season, and obviously pass along as low a pick as possible.
The question is, who is available that gets them out of the bottom eight? And what assets do they have to land that player?
Yeah. I don't see them getting out of the bottom 8. They are already 2nd worst in the West and Conley and Gasol have been healthier then they have been in years. If Gasol really is considering opting out this summer, then Memphis should absolutely trade him at the deadline and make sure they get something for him as well. I can see why they would want to get the transfer over with as it opens up options for them, I just don't think it is all that likely that they will actually transfer the pick and if they don't, they should absolutely try to bottom out and go into asset acquisition mode. The minor moves like Holiday, aren't going to keep that from happening, especially as the bottom of the East playoffs remains makeable for so many teams (6 to 11 is only separated by 4.5 games in the East - that makes 11 teams with the incentive to try and make the playoffs).
-
The 2019 Memphis pick becomes more valuable with every Memphis loss this season.
Good for the Celts.
Eh, it's not so cut and dry.
First, the pick is top 8 protected. So if you're hoping for the pick to convey this season, there's a fine line between losing and too much losing.
But if you think it's better the pick gets pushed back, then sure, you want Memphis to lose as many games as possible.
I don't want the pick this year.
A 2021 unprotected pick is the best case scenario.
Maybe...
Or by then the team has turned it around and we end up with a non-lottery pick.
Hard to see how they could turn it around in 2 years with their 2 best players being age 30 and 34. The West isn't going to get easier.
Tazz this is the first thing we have agreed on in a long time. Tp
Is there a team in a worse situation than Memphis?
Detroit?
Charlotte. Washington. Cleveland. Detroit
None of those teams have premier young talent, are riddled with bad contracts, have players injured, and even Cleveland has protections on its 1st for 2 seasons (though it changes to a 2nd if it doesn't transfer).
Gasol and Conley still have decent trade value. The Grizzlies could move them and rebuild rather easily. Rebuild might take some time and with the pick protections it complicates things, but I don't think they are in a completely dire situation either.
Cleveland is OK. They're tanking and if Kevin Love comes back he's a tradeable asset. All their bad contracts will be off the book by the time they're read to get back into the free agent market. I think they're fine.
Washington has real talent on their roster, their only problem is Wall. Which is a big one.
Detroit and Charlotte, though, are in bad shape. Them and Memphis have to be the worst 3 situation in the league.
Memphis has real talent on its roster. Gasol and Conley have value and Jackson was just a top 4 pick (and he wasn't a reach). Parsons is a bad contract no doubt, but he comes off after 19/20 and in 20/21 they only have Jackson, Anderson, and Conley's player option on the books, so if they move Conley they will be flush with cap space entering that season. They likely won't own their 2021 pick (as I expect them to try to tank the next 2 seasons), but if they draft correctly and trade off Gasol and Conley, I think they could certainly be a decent team in the 20/21 season and transfer a late lottery type pick to Boston. They need to just bite the bullet and trade Gasol at the deadline and make it known Conley is available as well (they don't need to trade him until the summer though).
This isn't accurate.
Zach Lowe:
Was talking to a couple of GMs today that both said the next 2-3 weeks would prove unusually important in determining which teams in the middle become buyers/sellers. Memphis getting ahead of it given current slump.
Memphis was always going to be a buyer considering they owe Boston a top-8 protected first-round pick that otherwise rolls over. They want to get that obligation over with this season, and obviously pass along as low a pick as possible.
The question is, who is available that gets them out of the bottom eight? And what assets do they have to land that player?
Yeah. I don't see them getting out of the bottom 8. They are already 2nd worst in the West and Conley and Gasol have been healthier then they have been in years. If Gasol really is considering opting out this summer, then Memphis should absolutely trade him at the deadline and make sure they get something for him as well. I can see why they would want to get the transfer over with as it opens up options for them, I just don't think it is all that likely that they will actually transfer the pick and if they don't, they should absolutely try to bottom out and go into asset acquisition mode. The minor moves like Holiday, aren't going to keep that from happening, especially as the bottom of the East playoffs remains makeable for so many teams (6 to 11 is only separated by 4.5 games in the East - that makes 11 teams with the incentive to try and make the playoffs).
Moranis, I pretty much agree with your assessment of Memphis. If they decide they want to move off of Gasol and Conley, they have a fruitful path forward.
But in a league moving away from centers that is flush with PG's, the value of those two could be in question, Gasol especially. And if Memphis is as dead set on being buyers at the trade deadline (as Lowe reported in Eddie20's quote) then they're following a bad path where their options get worse and worse.
-
The 2019 Memphis pick becomes more valuable with every Memphis loss this season.
Good for the Celts.
Eh, it's not so cut and dry.
First, the pick is top 8 protected. So if you're hoping for the pick to convey this season, there's a fine line between losing and too much losing.
But if you think it's better the pick gets pushed back, then sure, you want Memphis to lose as many games as possible.
I don't want the pick this year.
A 2021 unprotected pick is the best case scenario.
Maybe...
Or by then the team has turned it around and we end up with a non-lottery pick.
Hard to see how they could turn it around in 2 years with their 2 best players being age 30 and 34. The West isn't going to get easier.
Tazz this is the first thing we have agreed on in a long time. Tp
Is there a team in a worse situation than Memphis?
Detroit?
Charlotte. Washington. Cleveland. Detroit
None of those teams have premier young talent, are riddled with bad contracts, have players injured, and even Cleveland has protections on its 1st for 2 seasons (though it changes to a 2nd if it doesn't transfer).
Gasol and Conley still have decent trade value. The Grizzlies could move them and rebuild rather easily. Rebuild might take some time and with the pick protections it complicates things, but I don't think they are in a completely dire situation either.
Cleveland is OK. They're tanking and if Kevin Love comes back he's a tradeable asset. All their bad contracts will be off the book by the time they're read to get back into the free agent market. I think they're fine.
Washington has real talent on their roster, their only problem is Wall. Which is a big one.
Detroit and Charlotte, though, are in bad shape. Them and Memphis have to be the worst 3 situation in the league.
Memphis has real talent on its roster. Gasol and Conley have value and Jackson was just a top 4 pick (and he wasn't a reach). Parsons is a bad contract no doubt, but he comes off after 19/20 and in 20/21 they only have Jackson, Anderson, and Conley's player option on the books, so if they move Conley they will be flush with cap space entering that season. They likely won't own their 2021 pick (as I expect them to try to tank the next 2 seasons), but if they draft correctly and trade off Gasol and Conley, I think they could certainly be a decent team in the 20/21 season and transfer a late lottery type pick to Boston. They need to just bite the bullet and trade Gasol at the deadline and make it known Conley is available as well (they don't need to trade him until the summer though).
This isn't accurate.
Zach Lowe:
Was talking to a couple of GMs today that both said the next 2-3 weeks would prove unusually important in determining which teams in the middle become buyers/sellers. Memphis getting ahead of it given current slump.
Memphis was always going to be a buyer considering they owe Boston a top-8 protected first-round pick that otherwise rolls over. They want to get that obligation over with this season, and obviously pass along as low a pick as possible.
The question is, who is available that gets them out of the bottom eight? And what assets do they have to land that player?
Yeah. I don't see them getting out of the bottom 8. They are already 2nd worst in the West and Conley and Gasol have been healthier then they have been in years. If Gasol really is considering opting out this summer, then Memphis should absolutely trade him at the deadline and make sure they get something for him as well. I can see why they would want to get the transfer over with as it opens up options for them, I just don't think it is all that likely that they will actually transfer the pick and if they don't, they should absolutely try to bottom out and go into asset acquisition mode. The minor moves like Holiday, aren't going to keep that from happening, especially as the bottom of the East playoffs remains makeable for so many teams (6 to 11 is only separated by 4.5 games in the East - that makes 11 teams with the incentive to try and make the playoffs).
It's not impossible. They're 1-9 in their last 10 games yet only 1 game behind Dallas, Orlando, Washington, Detroit and 3 games behind Miami, Charlotte, New Orleans and Minnesota. A lot can happen to push them up to 9th or 10th spot, especially if they are trying to convey their pick and some other teams above them may be sellers or injuries happen as well. We won't know for a few weeks where they really stand (after the trade deadline and buy-outs).
-
The 2019 Memphis pick becomes more valuable with every Memphis loss this season.
Good for the Celts.
Eh, it's not so cut and dry.
First, the pick is top 8 protected. So if you're hoping for the pick to convey this season, there's a fine line between losing and too much losing.
But if you think it's better the pick gets pushed back, then sure, you want Memphis to lose as many games as possible.
I don't want the pick this year.
A 2021 unprotected pick is the best case scenario.
Maybe...
Or by then the team has turned it around and we end up with a non-lottery pick.
Hard to see how they could turn it around in 2 years with their 2 best players being age 30 and 34. The West isn't going to get easier.
Tazz this is the first thing we have agreed on in a long time. Tp
Is there a team in a worse situation than Memphis?
Detroit?
Charlotte. Washington. Cleveland. Detroit
None of those teams have premier young talent, are riddled with bad contracts, have players injured, and even Cleveland has protections on its 1st for 2 seasons (though it changes to a 2nd if it doesn't transfer).
Gasol and Conley still have decent trade value. The Grizzlies could move them and rebuild rather easily. Rebuild might take some time and with the pick protections it complicates things, but I don't think they are in a completely dire situation either.
Cleveland is OK. They're tanking and if Kevin Love comes back he's a tradeable asset. All their bad contracts will be off the book by the time they're read to get back into the free agent market. I think they're fine.
Washington has real talent on their roster, their only problem is Wall. Which is a big one.
Detroit and Charlotte, though, are in bad shape. Them and Memphis have to be the worst 3 situation in the league.
Memphis has real talent on its roster. Gasol and Conley have value and Jackson was just a top 4 pick (and he wasn't a reach). Parsons is a bad contract no doubt, but he comes off after 19/20 and in 20/21 they only have Jackson, Anderson, and Conley's player option on the books, so if they move Conley they will be flush with cap space entering that season. They likely won't own their 2021 pick (as I expect them to try to tank the next 2 seasons), but if they draft correctly and trade off Gasol and Conley, I think they could certainly be a decent team in the 20/21 season and transfer a late lottery type pick to Boston. They need to just bite the bullet and trade Gasol at the deadline and make it known Conley is available as well (they don't need to trade him until the summer though).
This isn't accurate.
Zach Lowe:
Was talking to a couple of GMs today that both said the next 2-3 weeks would prove unusually important in determining which teams in the middle become buyers/sellers. Memphis getting ahead of it given current slump.
Memphis was always going to be a buyer considering they owe Boston a top-8 protected first-round pick that otherwise rolls over. They want to get that obligation over with this season, and obviously pass along as low a pick as possible.
The question is, who is available that gets them out of the bottom eight? And what assets do they have to land that player?
Yeah. I don't see them getting out of the bottom 8. They are already 2nd worst in the West and Conley and Gasol have been healthier then they have been in years. If Gasol really is considering opting out this summer, then Memphis should absolutely trade him at the deadline and make sure they get something for him as well. I can see why they would want to get the transfer over with as it opens up options for them, I just don't think it is all that likely that they will actually transfer the pick and if they don't, they should absolutely try to bottom out and go into asset acquisition mode. The minor moves like Holiday, aren't going to keep that from happening, especially as the bottom of the East playoffs remains makeable for so many teams (6 to 11 is only separated by 4.5 games in the East - that makes 11 teams with the incentive to try and make the playoffs).
It's not impossible. They're 1-9 in their last 10 games yet only 1 game behind Dallas, Orlando, Washington, Detroit and 3 games behind Miami, Charlotte, New Orleans and Minnesota. A lot can happen to push them up to 9th or 10th spot, especially if they are trying to convey their pick and some other teams above them may be sellers or injuries happen as well. We won't know for a few weeks where they really stand (after the trade deadline and buy-outs).
They are 1-9 with full health from Gasol and Conley. The odds of both of them staying healthy the rest of the way, is virtually 0 based on prior seasons, but even with them they are 1-9. The only asset of any real value they have to trade is Jackson and the odds of them trading him (or finding a player worth trading him for) are also virtually 0. There are no moves they can reasonably make where it makes sense for them to actually make aside from trading Gasol.
As for Gasol's value, I think he is clearly worth a young player, 1st round, and salary filler. As an example, I could totally see something like Smart, Baynes, Yabu, 1st for Gasol being a realistic trade for both teams. Similar trades from Toronto, Milwaukee, Miami, Charlotte, and a handful of western teams also would make sense. Gasol would absolutely have a market and one that would almost certainly yield a 1st and other mid-tier assets.
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The 2019 Memphis pick becomes more valuable with every Memphis loss this season.
Good for the Celts.
Eh, it's not so cut and dry.
First, the pick is top 8 protected. So if you're hoping for the pick to convey this season, there's a fine line between losing and too much losing.
But if you think it's better the pick gets pushed back, then sure, you want Memphis to lose as many games as possible.
I don't want the pick this year.
A 2021 unprotected pick is the best case scenario.
Maybe...
Or by then the team has turned it around and we end up with a non-lottery pick.
Hard to see how they could turn it around in 2 years with their 2 best players being age 30 and 34. The West isn't going to get easier.
Tazz this is the first thing we have agreed on in a long time. Tp
Is there a team in a worse situation than Memphis?
Detroit?
Charlotte. Washington. Cleveland. Detroit
None of those teams have premier young talent, are riddled with bad contracts, have players injured, and even Cleveland has protections on its 1st for 2 seasons (though it changes to a 2nd if it doesn't transfer).
Gasol and Conley still have decent trade value. The Grizzlies could move them and rebuild rather easily. Rebuild might take some time and with the pick protections it complicates things, but I don't think they are in a completely dire situation either.
Cleveland is OK. They're tanking and if Kevin Love comes back he's a tradeable asset. All their bad contracts will be off the book by the time they're read to get back into the free agent market. I think they're fine.
Washington has real talent on their roster, their only problem is Wall. Which is a big one.
Detroit and Charlotte, though, are in bad shape. Them and Memphis have to be the worst 3 situation in the league.
Memphis has real talent on its roster. Gasol and Conley have value and Jackson was just a top 4 pick (and he wasn't a reach). Parsons is a bad contract no doubt, but he comes off after 19/20 and in 20/21 they only have Jackson, Anderson, and Conley's player option on the books, so if they move Conley they will be flush with cap space entering that season. They likely won't own their 2021 pick (as I expect them to try to tank the next 2 seasons), but if they draft correctly and trade off Gasol and Conley, I think they could certainly be a decent team in the 20/21 season and transfer a late lottery type pick to Boston. They need to just bite the bullet and trade Gasol at the deadline and make it known Conley is available as well (they don't need to trade him until the summer though).
This isn't accurate.
Zach Lowe:
Was talking to a couple of GMs today that both said the next 2-3 weeks would prove unusually important in determining which teams in the middle become buyers/sellers. Memphis getting ahead of it given current slump.
Memphis was always going to be a buyer considering they owe Boston a top-8 protected first-round pick that otherwise rolls over. They want to get that obligation over with this season, and obviously pass along as low a pick as possible.
The question is, who is available that gets them out of the bottom eight? And what assets do they have to land that player?
Yeah. I don't see them getting out of the bottom 8. They are already 2nd worst in the West and Conley and Gasol have been healthier then they have been in years. If Gasol really is considering opting out this summer, then Memphis should absolutely trade him at the deadline and make sure they get something for him as well. I can see why they would want to get the transfer over with as it opens up options for them, I just don't think it is all that likely that they will actually transfer the pick and if they don't, they should absolutely try to bottom out and go into asset acquisition mode. The minor moves like Holiday, aren't going to keep that from happening, especially as the bottom of the East playoffs remains makeable for so many teams (6 to 11 is only separated by 4.5 games in the East - that makes 11 teams with the incentive to try and make the playoffs).
It's not impossible. They're 1-9 in their last 10 games yet only 1 game behind Dallas, Orlando, Washington, Detroit and 3 games behind Miami, Charlotte, New Orleans and Minnesota. A lot can happen to push them up to 9th or 10th spot, especially if they are trying to convey their pick and some other teams above them may be sellers or injuries happen as well. We won't know for a few weeks where they really stand (after the trade deadline and buy-outs).
They are 1-9 with full health from Gasol and Conley. The odds of both of them staying healthy the rest of the way, is virtually 0 based on prior seasons, but even with them they are 1-9. The only asset of any real value they have to trade is Jackson and the odds of them trading him (or finding a player worth trading him for) are also virtually 0. There are no moves they can reasonably make where it makes sense for them to actually make aside from trading Gasol.
As for Gasol's value, I think he is clearly worth a young player, 1st round, and salary filler. As an example, I could totally see something like Smart, Baynes, Yabu, 1st for Gasol being a realistic trade for both teams. Similar trades from Toronto, Milwaukee, Miami, Charlotte, and a handful of western teams also would make sense. Gasol would absolutely have a market and one that would almost certainly yield a 1st and other mid-tier assets.
Even with a healthy team, our own C's went through a 4-6 stretch somewhere in there. And this was a team projected to win as many as 57-60. Gotta go 30-5 down the stretch. Just sayin'. Stuff happens with the best players on the floor. You can lose to a Phoenix, or blown out, with your best guys on the floor.
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Marc Stein: My sense is that the Grizzlies, since that Jan. 14 tweet, have indeed been quietly gauging the Gasol landscape and assessing their options — even though their preference surely remains not trading him. – via New York Times
If (when?) the Grizzlies reach the point that they are truly prepared to break up their star duo of Gasol and Mike Conley, one potential trade scenario I’ve heard would involve Memphis insisting to any interested team that Chandler Parsons must be involved in the same trade. – via New York Times
What team wants to pay Marc Gasol the functional equivalent of $48 million this season and $50 million next? That’s crazy talk.
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For first time, Memphis will begin listening to trade offers on franchise stars Marc Gasol and Mike Conley, league sources tell ESPN. Memphis has reached a crossroads and is preparing to weigh deals involving one or both of its cornerstone veterans. Story soon on ESPN.
https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1087860357626916864
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Marc Stein: My sense is that the Grizzlies, since that Jan. 14 tweet, have indeed been quietly gauging the Gasol landscape and assessing their options — even though their preference surely remains not trading him. – via New York Times
If (when?) the Grizzlies reach the point that they are truly prepared to break up their star duo of Gasol and Mike Conley, one potential trade scenario I’ve heard would involve Memphis insisting to any interested team that Chandler Parsons must be involved in the same trade. – via New York Times
What team wants to pay Marc Gasol the functional equivalent of $48 million this season and $50 million next? That’s crazy talk.
And at the same time you're crushing all the value that Gasol might offer you.
Wow. Just wow. How stupid is their GM?
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Marc Stein: My sense is that the Grizzlies, since that Jan. 14 tweet, have indeed been quietly gauging the Gasol landscape and assessing their options — even though their preference surely remains not trading him. – via New York Times
If (when?) the Grizzlies reach the point that they are truly prepared to break up their star duo of Gasol and Mike Conley, one potential trade scenario I’ve heard would involve Memphis insisting to any interested team that Chandler Parsons must be involved in the same trade. – via New York Times
What team wants to pay Marc Gasol the functional equivalent of $48 million this season and $50 million next? That’s crazy talk.
Yeah, and they aren't going to be contending any time soon or competing for any big name free agents, so why insist on unloading Parsons contract? That contract could become a good trade piece next year.
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Marc Stein: My sense is that the Grizzlies, since that Jan. 14 tweet, have indeed been quietly gauging the Gasol landscape and assessing their options — even though their preference surely remains not trading him. – via New York Times
If (when?) the Grizzlies reach the point that they are truly prepared to break up their star duo of Gasol and Mike Conley, one potential trade scenario I’ve heard would involve Memphis insisting to any interested team that Chandler Parsons must be involved in the same trade. – via New York Times
What team wants to pay Marc Gasol the functional equivalent of $48 million this season and $50 million next? That’s crazy talk.
And at the same time you're crushing all the value that Gasol might offer you.
Wow. Just wow. How stupid is their GM?
A very funny question!! You may be baiting me and you know who their GM is... If so, touche! But if not, their GM is old friend Chris Wallace who, among other gems, chose to trade Joe Johnson and keep Kedrick Brown when he could have traded either for Rogers/Delk. Selected Joe Forte over Tony Parker; traded for Vin Baker. His work as Celts GM (IMO) is legendary bad.
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Marc Stein: My sense is that the Grizzlies, since that Jan. 14 tweet, have indeed been quietly gauging the Gasol landscape and assessing their options — even though their preference surely remains not trading him. – via New York Times
If (when?) the Grizzlies reach the point that they are truly prepared to break up their star duo of Gasol and Mike Conley, one potential trade scenario I’ve heard would involve Memphis insisting to any interested team that Chandler Parsons must be involved in the same trade. – via New York Times
What team wants to pay Marc Gasol the functional equivalent of $48 million this season and $50 million next? That’s crazy talk.
Yeah, and they aren't going to be contending any time soon or competing for any big name free agents, so why insist on unloading Parsons contract? That contract could become a good trade piece next year.
They are justWe let some disguised profanity go but if you're going to try to get away with it, at least do a better job than you did with one of the most profane words there is. Thanks. BTW, I would prefer you actually follow the rules and not curse. stupid. They don't think ahead at all. Didn't they trade picks for Justin Holiday just three weeks ago! Just to try to get out of the bottom 8? And now they want to change their course? Pathetic.
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Marc Stein: My sense is that the Grizzlies, since that Jan. 14 tweet, have indeed been quietly gauging the Gasol landscape and assessing their options — even though their preference surely remains not trading him. – via New York Times
If (when?) the Grizzlies reach the point that they are truly prepared to break up their star duo of Gasol and Mike Conley, one potential trade scenario I’ve heard would involve Memphis insisting to any interested team that Chandler Parsons must be involved in the same trade. – via New York Times
What team wants to pay Marc Gasol the functional equivalent of $48 million this season and $50 million next? That’s crazy talk.
And at the same time you're crushing all the value that Gasol might offer you.
Wow. Just wow. How stupid is their GM?
A very funny question!! You may be baiting me and you know who their GM is... If so, touche! But if not, their GM is old friend Chris Wallace who, among other gems, chose to trade Joe Johnson and keep Kedrick Brown when he could have traded either for Rogers/Delk. Selected Joe Forte over Tony Parker; traded for Vin Baker. His work as Celts GM (IMO) is legendary bad.
I honestly didn't know that. I have been following the NBA just for like around a decade now. But that's interesting information. How does this guy have a job? Pretty sure he's also the one who messed up that 'wrong' Brooks deal with Washington and Phoenix (although DC's GM Grunfeld is also notoriously bad).
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Marc Stein: My sense is that the Grizzlies, since that Jan. 14 tweet, have indeed been quietly gauging the Gasol landscape and assessing their options — even though their preference surely remains not trading him. – via New York Times
If (when?) the Grizzlies reach the point that they are truly prepared to break up their star duo of Gasol and Mike Conley, one potential trade scenario I’ve heard would involve Memphis insisting to any interested team that Chandler Parsons must be involved in the same trade. – via New York Times
What team wants to pay Marc Gasol the functional equivalent of $48 million this season and $50 million next? That’s crazy talk.
And at the same time you're crushing all the value that Gasol might offer you.
Wow. Just wow. How stupid is their GM?
A very funny question!! You may be baiting me and you know who their GM is... If so, touche! But if not, their GM is old friend Chris Wallace who, among other gems, chose to trade Joe Johnson and keep Kedrick Brown when he could have traded either for Rogers/Delk. Selected Joe Forte over Tony Parker; traded for Vin Baker. His work as Celts GM (IMO) is legendary bad.
I honestly didn't know that. I have been following the NBA just for like around a decade now. But that's interesting information. How does this guy have a job? Pretty sure he's also the one who messed up that 'wrong' Brooks deal with Washington and Phoenix (although DC's GM Grunfeld is also notoriously bad).
Interestingly, the one trade I will truly never forgive Wallace for (who, btw, seems like a good guy and has done an overall OK job with the Griz) is his trade of Pau Gasol to the Lakers -- handing Lakers their mini-dynasty 10 years ago. At the time, it was a gift -- who knew Marc Gasol (part of the brothers trade) would turn out as good as he is. But at the time it was like Wallace handing the Lakers a championship.
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Marc Stein: My sense is that the Grizzlies, since that Jan. 14 tweet, have indeed been quietly gauging the Gasol landscape and assessing their options — even though their preference surely remains not trading him. – via New York Times
If (when?) the Grizzlies reach the point that they are truly prepared to break up their star duo of Gasol and Mike Conley, one potential trade scenario I’ve heard would involve Memphis insisting to any interested team that Chandler Parsons must be involved in the same trade. – via New York Times
What team wants to pay Marc Gasol the functional equivalent of $48 million this season and $50 million next? That’s crazy talk.
And at the same time you're crushing all the value that Gasol might offer you.
Wow. Just wow. How stupid is their GM?
A very funny question!! You may be baiting me and you know who their GM is... If so, touche! But if not, their GM is old friend Chris Wallace who, among other gems, chose to trade Joe Johnson and keep Kedrick Brown when he could have traded either for Rogers/Delk. Selected Joe Forte over Tony Parker; traded for Vin Baker. His work as Celts GM (IMO) is legendary bad.
Wallace was a disaster as the Celtics GM. He, M.L. Carr and Rick Pitino are all fighting it out as worst Celtic GM ever, but I think we have to be fair here. Joe Forte was actually a Red Auerbach pick. Red very famously made Joe Forte a 2 cigar player on draft night. He would light up 2 cigars whenever he thought he had pulled one over the rest of the league on draft day and drafted someone special.
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What Memphis should be doing is looking for franchises that are pretty desperate (besides themselves :D).
What about Charlotte:
Marc Gasol, Garrett Temple (expiring), JaMychal Green (expiring), Omri Casspi (expiring) for Nicolas Batum, Bismack Biyombo, Malik Monk, Willy Hernangomez + '19 Hornets 1st rounder?
Why: Gasol is the star to keep Walker. Temple, Green and Casspi are useful role players in the playoffs. And with trading Batum and Biyombo the Hornets clear a ton of salary.
Then of course Conley needs to go as well, how about New York:
Mike Conley, Shelvin Mack (expiring) for Tim Hardaway Jr, Lance Thomas, Frank Ntilikina + '20 and '21 Hornets 2nd rounders?
Why: Conley solves the PG situation for the Knicks and they become a more attractive free agent destination, while getting Hardaway and Thomas of the books.
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Now the Grizzlies can immediately build around Ntilikina, Carter, Monk, Hardaway Jr, Brooks, Anderson, Rabb, Jackson Jr, Hernangomez + '19 Grizzlies 1st + '19 Hornets 1st. That doesn't look too bad. Batum and Biyombo are useful professional vets as well.
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Thrilled that the Lakers management is still incompetent and they got rid of Deng
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Marc Stein: My sense is that the Grizzlies, since that Jan. 14 tweet, have indeed been quietly gauging the Gasol landscape and assessing their options — even though their preference surely remains not trading him. – via New York Times
If (when?) the Grizzlies reach the point that they are truly prepared to break up their star duo of Gasol and Mike Conley, one potential trade scenario I’ve heard would involve Memphis insisting to any interested team that Chandler Parsons must be involved in the same trade. – via New York Times
What team wants to pay Marc Gasol the functional equivalent of $48 million this season and $50 million next? That’s crazy talk.
And at the same time you're crushing all the value that Gasol might offer you.
Wow. Just wow. How stupid is their GM?
A very funny question!! You may be baiting me and you know who their GM is... If so, touche! But if not, their GM is old friend Chris Wallace who, among other gems, chose to trade Joe Johnson and keep Kedrick Brown when he could have traded either for Rogers/Delk. Selected Joe Forte over Tony Parker; traded for Vin Baker. His work as Celts GM (IMO) is legendary bad.
I honestly didn't know that. I have been following the NBA just for like around a decade now. But that's interesting information. How does this guy have a job? Pretty sure he's also the one who messed up that 'wrong' Brooks deal with Washington and Phoenix (although DC's GM Grunfeld is also notoriously bad).
Interestingly, the one trade I will truly never forgive Wallace for (who, btw, seems like a good guy and has done an overall OK job with the Griz) is his trade of Pau Gasol to the Lakers -- handing Lakers their mini-dynasty 10 years ago. At the time, it was a gift -- who knew Marc Gasol (part of the brothers trade) would turn out as good as he is. But at the time it was like Wallace handing the Lakers a championship.
I vividly remember telling anyone who would listen back then that Marc Gasol would be a much better player than Al Jefferson if he just got himself in shape. There were a few others that also recognized this, and I suspect Wallace knew this as well (given Marc grew up in Memphis). Now maybe that wasn't the sentiment here (I had yet to join CB), but there were definitely people that saw the raw talent Marc had.
Memphis ended up getting a much better deal for Pau than Minnesota got for KG.
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Marc Stein: My sense is that the Grizzlies, since that Jan. 14 tweet, have indeed been quietly gauging the Gasol landscape and assessing their options — even though their preference surely remains not trading him. – via New York Times
If (when?) the Grizzlies reach the point that they are truly prepared to break up their star duo of Gasol and Mike Conley, one potential trade scenario I’ve heard would involve Memphis insisting to any interested team that Chandler Parsons must be involved in the same trade. – via New York Times
What team wants to pay Marc Gasol the functional equivalent of $48 million this season and $50 million next? That’s crazy talk.
honestly my first thought was Batum and Charlotte. I came up with something like this.
Gasol, Parsons for Batum, Zeller, Lamb, lotto protected 1st
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Marc Stein: My sense is that the Grizzlies, since that Jan. 14 tweet, have indeed been quietly gauging the Gasol landscape and assessing their options — even though their preference surely remains not trading him. – via New York Times
If (when?) the Grizzlies reach the point that they are truly prepared to break up their star duo of Gasol and Mike Conley, one potential trade scenario I’ve heard would involve Memphis insisting to any interested team that Chandler Parsons must be involved in the same trade. – via New York Times
What team wants to pay Marc Gasol the functional equivalent of $48 million this season and $50 million next? That’s crazy talk.
honestly my first thought was Batum and Charlotte. I came up with something like this.
Gasol, Parsons for Batum, Zeller, Lamb, lotto protected 1st
I could see Charlotte but they have the uncertainty with Kemba. The Wizards should jump at the chance to get out from under the Wall contract. Same with the Cavs and Love.
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Marc Stein: My sense is that the Grizzlies, since that Jan. 14 tweet, have indeed been quietly gauging the Gasol landscape and assessing their options — even though their preference surely remains not trading him. – via New York Times
If (when?) the Grizzlies reach the point that they are truly prepared to break up their star duo of Gasol and Mike Conley, one potential trade scenario I’ve heard would involve Memphis insisting to any interested team that Chandler Parsons must be involved in the same trade. – via New York Times
What team wants to pay Marc Gasol the functional equivalent of $48 million this season and $50 million next? That’s crazy talk.
honestly my first thought was Batum and Charlotte. I came up with something like this.
Gasol, Parsons for Batum, Zeller, Lamb, lotto protected 1st
I could see Charlotte but they have the uncertainty with Kemba. The Wizards should jump at the chance to get out from under the Wall contract. Same with the Cavs and Love.
Yeah, I can honestly see the Grizzlies going the other way and deciding to keep Gasol and Conley, and trade for someone like Love to add to them.
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Per Woj: Grizzlies are starting to listen to trade offers for Gasol and Conley.
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How about the Wizards? They're starting Thomas Bryant at center with Mahinmi as backup.
Gasol for Mahinmi, Morris (expiring) and 2019 protected (top 10?) 1st
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Marc Stein: My sense is that the Grizzlies, since that Jan. 14 tweet, have indeed been quietly gauging the Gasol landscape and assessing their options — even though their preference surely remains not trading him. – via New York Times
If (when?) the Grizzlies reach the point that they are truly prepared to break up their star duo of Gasol and Mike Conley, one potential trade scenario I’ve heard would involve Memphis insisting to any interested team that Chandler Parsons must be involved in the same trade. – via New York Times
What team wants to pay Marc Gasol the functional equivalent of $48 million this season and $50 million next? That’s crazy talk.
honestly my first thought was Batum and Charlotte. I came up with something like this.
Gasol, Parsons for Batum, Zeller, Lamb, lotto protected 1st
I could see Charlotte but they have the uncertainty with Kemba. The Wizards should jump at the chance to get out from under the Wall contract. Same with the Cavs and Love.
Yeah, I can honestly see the Grizzlies going the other way and deciding to keep Gasol and Conley, and trade for someone like Love to add to them.
They can't as they have nothing of any real value to trade (aside from Jackson, Gasol, or Conley) and the Cavs have gotten a fair amount of interest in Love, such that they can actually trade him for value (not a lot, but some). That is the Grizzlies real problem is they just don't have many assets on their team right now aside from their top 4 pick and their 2 aging stars. They need to come to that realization and trade Gasol now and see what they can get for Conley.
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Marc Stein: My sense is that the Grizzlies, since that Jan. 14 tweet, have indeed been quietly gauging the Gasol landscape and assessing their options — even though their preference surely remains not trading him. – via New York Times
If (when?) the Grizzlies reach the point that they are truly prepared to break up their star duo of Gasol and Mike Conley, one potential trade scenario I’ve heard would involve Memphis insisting to any interested team that Chandler Parsons must be involved in the same trade. – via New York Times
What team wants to pay Marc Gasol the functional equivalent of $48 million this season and $50 million next? That’s crazy talk.
honestly my first thought was Batum and Charlotte. I came up with something like this.
Gasol, Parsons for Batum, Zeller, Lamb, lotto protected 1st
I could see Charlotte but they have the uncertainty with Kemba. The Wizards should jump at the chance to get out from under the Wall contract. Same with the Cavs and Love.
Yeah, I can honestly see the Grizzlies going the other way and deciding to keep Gasol and Conley, and trade for someone like Love to add to them.
They can't as they have nothing of any real value to trade (aside from Jackson, Gasol, or Conley) and the Cavs have gotten a fair amount of interest in Love, such that they can actually trade him for value (not a lot, but some). That is the Grizzlies real problem is they just don't have many assets on their team right now aside from their top 4 pick and their 2 aging stars. They need to come to that realization and trade Gasol now and see what they can get for Conley.
A fair amount of interest, based on what info?
Love's contract is a negative long term asset, that is irrefutable fact.
I don't know who is offering anything of value for him.
If by the value you mean getting another albatross contract (+ expiring) + some top 20 protected 2023 pick, then ok.
But then again why would Memphis clog their cap space and give future picks with an aged, often injured, over the hill star as they are entering the rebuilding phase, is beyond my imagination. Especially since they owe us a pick and they don't know when it will convey and they, due to Cleveland's own Ted Stepien rule, can't send another 1st rounder until 2023.
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Marc Stein: My sense is that the Grizzlies, since that Jan. 14 tweet, have indeed been quietly gauging the Gasol landscape and assessing their options — even though their preference surely remains not trading him. – via New York Times
If (when?) the Grizzlies reach the point that they are truly prepared to break up their star duo of Gasol and Mike Conley, one potential trade scenario I’ve heard would involve Memphis insisting to any interested team that Chandler Parsons must be involved in the same trade. – via New York Times
What team wants to pay Marc Gasol the functional equivalent of $48 million this season and $50 million next? That’s crazy talk.
honestly my first thought was Batum and Charlotte. I came up with something like this.
Gasol, Parsons for Batum, Zeller, Lamb, lotto protected 1st
I could see Charlotte but they have the uncertainty with Kemba. The Wizards should jump at the chance to get out from under the Wall contract. Same with the Cavs and Love.
Yeah, I can honestly see the Grizzlies going the other way and deciding to keep Gasol and Conley, and trade for someone like Love to add to them.
They can't as they have nothing of any real value to trade (aside from Jackson, Gasol, or Conley) and the Cavs have gotten a fair amount of interest in Love, such that they can actually trade him for value (not a lot, but some). That is the Grizzlies real problem is they just don't have many assets on their team right now aside from their top 4 pick and their 2 aging stars. They need to come to that realization and trade Gasol now and see what they can get for Conley.
A fair amount of interest, based on what info?
Love's contract is a negative long term asset, that is irrefutable fact.
I don't know who is offering anything of value for him.
If by the value you mean getting another albatross contract (+ expiring) + some top 20 protected 2023 pick, then ok.
But then again why would Memphis clog their cap space and give future picks with an aged, often injured, over the hill star as they are entering the rebuilding phase, is beyond my imagination. Especially since they owe us a pick and they don't know when it will convey and they, due to Cleveland's own Ted Stepien rule, can't send another 1st rounder until 2023.
Based on all the rumors and several different teams including the Pelicans, Thunder, Jazz, Lakers, Rockets, Nuggets, Pacers, and Heat have all been linked to Love this season and some of them even last week. Love has to get back on the court and play though for the Cavs to be able to get full value (whatever that is).
So apparently several teams disagree with your irrefutable fact.
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Marc Stein: My sense is that the Grizzlies, since that Jan. 14 tweet, have indeed been quietly gauging the Gasol landscape and assessing their options — even though their preference surely remains not trading him. – via New York Times
If (when?) the Grizzlies reach the point that they are truly prepared to break up their star duo of Gasol and Mike Conley, one potential trade scenario I’ve heard would involve Memphis insisting to any interested team that Chandler Parsons must be involved in the same trade. – via New York Times
What team wants to pay Marc Gasol the functional equivalent of $48 million this season and $50 million next? That’s crazy talk.
honestly my first thought was Batum and Charlotte. I came up with something like this.
Gasol, Parsons for Batum, Zeller, Lamb, lotto protected 1st
I could see Charlotte but they have the uncertainty with Kemba. The Wizards should jump at the chance to get out from under the Wall contract. Same with the Cavs and Love.
Yeah, I can honestly see the Grizzlies going the other way and deciding to keep Gasol and Conley, and trade for someone like Love to add to them.
They can't as they have nothing of any real value to trade (aside from Jackson, Gasol, or Conley) and the Cavs have gotten a fair amount of interest in Love, such that they can actually trade him for value (not a lot, but some). That is the Grizzlies real problem is they just don't have many assets on their team right now aside from their top 4 pick and their 2 aging stars. They need to come to that realization and trade Gasol now and see what they can get for Conley.
A fair amount of interest, based on what info?
Love's contract is a negative long term asset, that is irrefutable fact.
I don't know who is offering anything of value for him.
If by the value you mean getting another albatross contract (+ expiring) + some top 20 protected 2023 pick, then ok.
But then again why would Memphis clog their cap space and give future picks with an aged, often injured, over the hill star as they are entering the rebuilding phase, is beyond my imagination. Especially since they owe us a pick and they don't know when it will convey and they, due to Cleveland's own Ted Stepien rule, can't send another 1st rounder until 2023.
Based on all the rumors and several different teams including the Pelicans, Thunder, Jazz, Lakers, Rockets, Nuggets, Pacers, and Heat have all been linked to Love this season and some of them even last week. Love has to get back on the court and play though for the Cavs to be able to get full value (whatever that is).
So apparently several teams disagree with your irrefutable fact.
Read more efficiently.
I wrote that he is a longterm negative asset, not that there is no team willing to accept a negative asset in a trade.
-
Marc Stein: My sense is that the Grizzlies, since that Jan. 14 tweet, have indeed been quietly gauging the Gasol landscape and assessing their options — even though their preference surely remains not trading him. – via New York Times
If (when?) the Grizzlies reach the point that they are truly prepared to break up their star duo of Gasol and Mike Conley, one potential trade scenario I’ve heard would involve Memphis insisting to any interested team that Chandler Parsons must be involved in the same trade. – via New York Times
What team wants to pay Marc Gasol the functional equivalent of $48 million this season and $50 million next? That’s crazy talk.
honestly my first thought was Batum and Charlotte. I came up with something like this.
Gasol, Parsons for Batum, Zeller, Lamb, lotto protected 1st
I could see Charlotte but they have the uncertainty with Kemba. The Wizards should jump at the chance to get out from under the Wall contract. Same with the Cavs and Love.
Yeah, I can honestly see the Grizzlies going the other way and deciding to keep Gasol and Conley, and trade for someone like Love to add to them.
They can't as they have nothing of any real value to trade (aside from Jackson, Gasol, or Conley) and the Cavs have gotten a fair amount of interest in Love, such that they can actually trade him for value (not a lot, but some). That is the Grizzlies real problem is they just don't have many assets on their team right now aside from their top 4 pick and their 2 aging stars. They need to come to that realization and trade Gasol now and see what they can get for Conley.
A fair amount of interest, based on what info?
Love's contract is a negative long term asset, that is irrefutable fact.
I don't know who is offering anything of value for him.
If by the value you mean getting another albatross contract (+ expiring) + some top 20 protected 2023 pick, then ok.
But then again why would Memphis clog their cap space and give future picks with an aged, often injured, over the hill star as they are entering the rebuilding phase, is beyond my imagination. Especially since they owe us a pick and they don't know when it will convey and they, due to Cleveland's own Ted Stepien rule, can't send another 1st rounder until 2023.
Based on all the rumors and several different teams including the Pelicans, Thunder, Jazz, Lakers, Rockets, Nuggets, Pacers, and Heat have all been linked to Love this season and some of them even last week. Love has to get back on the court and play though for the Cavs to be able to get full value (whatever that is).
So apparently several teams disagree with your irrefutable fact.
Read more efficiently.
I wrote that he is a longterm negative asset, not that there is no team willing to accept a negative asset in a trade.
but those teams aren't looking at him that way. The rumors are that the Cavs will get value for him and not have to give up value to unload him. that means he is not a long term negative asset.
-
Marc Stein: My sense is that the Grizzlies, since that Jan. 14 tweet, have indeed been quietly gauging the Gasol landscape and assessing their options — even though their preference surely remains not trading him. – via New York Times
If (when?) the Grizzlies reach the point that they are truly prepared to break up their star duo of Gasol and Mike Conley, one potential trade scenario I’ve heard would involve Memphis insisting to any interested team that Chandler Parsons must be involved in the same trade. – via New York Times
What team wants to pay Marc Gasol the functional equivalent of $48 million this season and $50 million next? That’s crazy talk.
honestly my first thought was Batum and Charlotte. I came up with something like this.
Gasol, Parsons for Batum, Zeller, Lamb, lotto protected 1st
I could see Charlotte but they have the uncertainty with Kemba. The Wizards should jump at the chance to get out from under the Wall contract. Same with the Cavs and Love.
Yeah, I can honestly see the Grizzlies going the other way and deciding to keep Gasol and Conley, and trade for someone like Love to add to them.
They can't as they have nothing of any real value to trade (aside from Jackson, Gasol, or Conley) and the Cavs have gotten a fair amount of interest in Love, such that they can actually trade him for value (not a lot, but some). That is the Grizzlies real problem is they just don't have many assets on their team right now aside from their top 4 pick and their 2 aging stars. They need to come to that realization and trade Gasol now and see what they can get for Conley.
A fair amount of interest, based on what info?
Love's contract is a negative long term asset, that is irrefutable fact.
I don't know who is offering anything of value for him.
If by the value you mean getting another albatross contract (+ expiring) + some top 20 protected 2023 pick, then ok.
But then again why would Memphis clog their cap space and give future picks with an aged, often injured, over the hill star as they are entering the rebuilding phase, is beyond my imagination. Especially since they owe us a pick and they don't know when it will convey and they, due to Cleveland's own Ted Stepien rule, can't send another 1st rounder until 2023.
Based on all the rumors and several different teams including the Pelicans, Thunder, Jazz, Lakers, Rockets, Nuggets, Pacers, and Heat have all been linked to Love this season and some of them even last week. Love has to get back on the court and play though for the Cavs to be able to get full value (whatever that is).
So apparently several teams disagree with your irrefutable fact.
Read more efficiently.
I wrote that he is a longterm negative asset, not that there is no team willing to accept a negative asset in a trade.
but those teams aren't looking at him that way. The rumors are that the Cavs will get value for him and not have to give up value to unload him. that means he is not a long term negative asset.
I must say this seems really hard to believe because he is owed 120 million dollars for the next 4 years and has battled all kinds of injuries in his 20's (including scary back stuff). How can you feel comfortable paying him for 4 years of his 30's (he turned 30 this season)? I am curious what a potential value deal is for him? If you have seen any legit rumors I would love to see them.
-
Marc Stein: My sense is that the Grizzlies, since that Jan. 14 tweet, have indeed been quietly gauging the Gasol landscape and assessing their options — even though their preference surely remains not trading him. – via New York Times
If (when?) the Grizzlies reach the point that they are truly prepared to break up their star duo of Gasol and Mike Conley, one potential trade scenario I’ve heard would involve Memphis insisting to any interested team that Chandler Parsons must be involved in the same trade. – via New York Times
What team wants to pay Marc Gasol the functional equivalent of $48 million this season and $50 million next? That’s crazy talk.
honestly my first thought was Batum and Charlotte. I came up with something like this.
Gasol, Parsons for Batum, Zeller, Lamb, lotto protected 1st
I could see Charlotte but they have the uncertainty with Kemba. The Wizards should jump at the chance to get out from under the Wall contract. Same with the Cavs and Love.
Yeah, I can honestly see the Grizzlies going the other way and deciding to keep Gasol and Conley, and trade for someone like Love to add to them.
They can't as they have nothing of any real value to trade (aside from Jackson, Gasol, or Conley) and the Cavs have gotten a fair amount of interest in Love, such that they can actually trade him for value (not a lot, but some). That is the Grizzlies real problem is they just don't have many assets on their team right now aside from their top 4 pick and their 2 aging stars. They need to come to that realization and trade Gasol now and see what they can get for Conley.
A fair amount of interest, based on what info?
Love's contract is a negative long term asset, that is irrefutable fact.
I don't know who is offering anything of value for him.
If by the value you mean getting another albatross contract (+ expiring) + some top 20 protected 2023 pick, then ok.
But then again why would Memphis clog their cap space and give future picks with an aged, often injured, over the hill star as they are entering the rebuilding phase, is beyond my imagination. Especially since they owe us a pick and they don't know when it will convey and they, due to Cleveland's own Ted Stepien rule, can't send another 1st rounder until 2023.
Based on all the rumors and several different teams including the Pelicans, Thunder, Jazz, Lakers, Rockets, Nuggets, Pacers, and Heat have all been linked to Love this season and some of them even last week. Love has to get back on the court and play though for the Cavs to be able to get full value (whatever that is).
So apparently several teams disagree with your irrefutable fact.
Read more efficiently.
I wrote that he is a longterm negative asset, not that there is no team willing to accept a negative asset in a trade.
but those teams aren't looking at him that way. The rumors are that the Cavs will get value for him and not have to give up value to unload him. that means he is not a long term negative asset.
I must say this seems really hard to believe because he is owed 120 million dollars for the next 4 years and has battled all kinds of injuries in his 20's (including scary back stuff). How can you feel comfortable paying him for 4 years of his 30's (he turned 30 this season)? I am curious what a potential value deal is for him? If you have seen any legit rumors I would love to see them.
It would be a young player (low to mid tier value), some form of contract (likely a year or two), and a 1st (likely a late or highly protected one). Nothing great and if Love is healthy he has more value as a player then they could get for him (by a wide margin). The thing is no one is all that interested until Love steps foot back on the court and he can't actually be traded until tomorrow at the earliest so there was never going to be anything close to a serious talk until then anyway, which is why there aren't any real solid rumors. That said, I saw something last week linking the Thunder to Love and the trades I saw brandied about was something like Schroder, Diallo, and Noel. That trade actually seemingly made sense for both teams, but that is only if Love actually shows he can play this year.
-
Marc Stein: My sense is that the Grizzlies, since that Jan. 14 tweet, have indeed been quietly gauging the Gasol landscape and assessing their options — even though their preference surely remains not trading him. – via New York Times
If (when?) the Grizzlies reach the point that they are truly prepared to break up their star duo of Gasol and Mike Conley, one potential trade scenario I’ve heard would involve Memphis insisting to any interested team that Chandler Parsons must be involved in the same trade. – via New York Times
What team wants to pay Marc Gasol the functional equivalent of $48 million this season and $50 million next? That’s crazy talk.
honestly my first thought was Batum and Charlotte. I came up with something like this.
Gasol, Parsons for Batum, Zeller, Lamb, lotto protected 1st
I could see Charlotte but they have the uncertainty with Kemba. The Wizards should jump at the chance to get out from under the Wall contract. Same with the Cavs and Love.
Yeah, I can honestly see the Grizzlies going the other way and deciding to keep Gasol and Conley, and trade for someone like Love to add to them.
They can't as they have nothing of any real value to trade (aside from Jackson, Gasol, or Conley) and the Cavs have gotten a fair amount of interest in Love, such that they can actually trade him for value (not a lot, but some). That is the Grizzlies real problem is they just don't have many assets on their team right now aside from their top 4 pick and their 2 aging stars. They need to come to that realization and trade Gasol now and see what they can get for Conley.
A fair amount of interest, based on what info?
Love's contract is a negative long term asset, that is irrefutable fact.
I don't know who is offering anything of value for him.
If by the value you mean getting another albatross contract (+ expiring) + some top 20 protected 2023 pick, then ok.
But then again why would Memphis clog their cap space and give future picks with an aged, often injured, over the hill star as they are entering the rebuilding phase, is beyond my imagination. Especially since they owe us a pick and they don't know when it will convey and they, due to Cleveland's own Ted Stepien rule, can't send another 1st rounder until 2023.
Based on all the rumors and several different teams including the Pelicans, Thunder, Jazz, Lakers, Rockets, Nuggets, Pacers, and Heat have all been linked to Love this season and some of them even last week. Love has to get back on the court and play though for the Cavs to be able to get full value (whatever that is).
So apparently several teams disagree with your irrefutable fact.
Read more efficiently.
I wrote that he is a longterm negative asset, not that there is no team willing to accept a negative asset in a trade.
but those teams aren't looking at him that way. The rumors are that the Cavs will get value for him and not have to give up value to unload him. that means he is not a long term negative asset.
I must say this seems really hard to believe because he is owed 120 million dollars for the next 4 years and has battled all kinds of injuries in his 20's (including scary back stuff). How can you feel comfortable paying him for 4 years of his 30's (he turned 30 this season)? I am curious what a potential value deal is for him? If you have seen any legit rumors I would love to see them.
It would be a young player (low to mid tier value), some form of contract (likely a year or two), and a 1st (likely a late or highly protected one). Nothing great and if Love is healthy he has more value as a player then they could get for him (by a wide margin). The thing is no one is all that interested until Love steps foot back on the court and he can't actually be traded until tomorrow at the earliest so there was never going to be anything close to a serious talk until then anyway, which is why there aren't any real solid rumors. That said, I saw something last week linking the Thunder to Love and the trades I saw brandied about was something like Schroder, Diallo, and Noel. That trade actually seemingly made sense for both teams, but that is only if Love actually shows he can play this year.
It seems like that deal would really hurt OKC's depth wouldn't it? Schroeder is playing nearly 30 minutes a game for them and averaging 15.5 and 5 (and i think some good perimeter defense). Noel is only playing about 15 points a game but is pretty effective in those minutes averaging a steal, block and 5 points and 5 rebounds with good defense while WOJ recently called Diallo a revelation for the thunder at 20 years old.
https://okcthunderwire.usatoday.com/2018/11/28/oklahoma-city-thunder-hamidou-diallo-revelation-adrian-wojnarowski-espn/
Why in the world would the Thunder cash out all those guys for someone who is going to be a third or 4th option on there team and get 120 million over 4 years?
-
Marc Stein: My sense is that the Grizzlies, since that Jan. 14 tweet, have indeed been quietly gauging the Gasol landscape and assessing their options — even though their preference surely remains not trading him. – via New York Times
If (when?) the Grizzlies reach the point that they are truly prepared to break up their star duo of Gasol and Mike Conley, one potential trade scenario I’ve heard would involve Memphis insisting to any interested team that Chandler Parsons must be involved in the same trade. – via New York Times
What team wants to pay Marc Gasol the functional equivalent of $48 million this season and $50 million next? That’s crazy talk.
honestly my first thought was Batum and Charlotte. I came up with something like this.
Gasol, Parsons for Batum, Zeller, Lamb, lotto protected 1st
I could see Charlotte but they have the uncertainty with Kemba. The Wizards should jump at the chance to get out from under the Wall contract. Same with the Cavs and Love.
Yeah, I can honestly see the Grizzlies going the other way and deciding to keep Gasol and Conley, and trade for someone like Love to add to them.
They can't as they have nothing of any real value to trade (aside from Jackson, Gasol, or Conley) and the Cavs have gotten a fair amount of interest in Love, such that they can actually trade him for value (not a lot, but some). That is the Grizzlies real problem is they just don't have many assets on their team right now aside from their top 4 pick and their 2 aging stars. They need to come to that realization and trade Gasol now and see what they can get for Conley.
A fair amount of interest, based on what info?
Love's contract is a negative long term asset, that is irrefutable fact.
I don't know who is offering anything of value for him.
If by the value you mean getting another albatross contract (+ expiring) + some top 20 protected 2023 pick, then ok.
But then again why would Memphis clog their cap space and give future picks with an aged, often injured, over the hill star as they are entering the rebuilding phase, is beyond my imagination. Especially since they owe us a pick and they don't know when it will convey and they, due to Cleveland's own Ted Stepien rule, can't send another 1st rounder until 2023.
Based on all the rumors and several different teams including the Pelicans, Thunder, Jazz, Lakers, Rockets, Nuggets, Pacers, and Heat have all been linked to Love this season and some of them even last week. Love has to get back on the court and play though for the Cavs to be able to get full value (whatever that is).
So apparently several teams disagree with your irrefutable fact.
Read more efficiently.
I wrote that he is a longterm negative asset, not that there is no team willing to accept a negative asset in a trade.
but those teams aren't looking at him that way. The rumors are that the Cavs will get value for him and not have to give up value to unload him. that means he is not a long term negative asset.
I must say this seems really hard to believe because he is owed 120 million dollars for the next 4 years and has battled all kinds of injuries in his 20's (including scary back stuff). How can you feel comfortable paying him for 4 years of his 30's (he turned 30 this season)? I am curious what a potential value deal is for him? If you have seen any legit rumors I would love to see them.
It would be a young player (low to mid tier value), some form of contract (likely a year or two), and a 1st (likely a late or highly protected one). Nothing great and if Love is healthy he has more value as a player then they could get for him (by a wide margin). The thing is no one is all that interested until Love steps foot back on the court and he can't actually be traded until tomorrow at the earliest so there was never going to be anything close to a serious talk until then anyway, which is why there aren't any real solid rumors. That said, I saw something last week linking the Thunder to Love and the trades I saw brandied about was something like Schroder, Diallo, and Noel. That trade actually seemingly made sense for both teams, but that is only if Love actually shows he can play this year.
It seems like that deal would really hurt OKC's depth wouldn't it? Schroeder is playing nearly 30 minutes a game for them and averaging 15.5 and 5 (and i think some good perimeter defense). Noel is only playing about 15 points a game but is pretty effective in those minutes averaging a steal, block and 5 points and 5 rebounds with good defense while WOJ recently called Diallo a revelation for the thunder at 20 years old.
https://okcthunderwire.usatoday.com/2018/11/28/oklahoma-city-thunder-hamidou-diallo-revelation-adrian-wojnarowski-espn/
Why in the world would the Thunder cash out all those guys for someone who is going to be a third or 4th option on there team and get 120 million over 4 years?
because Love is better than those guys and thus is a much better fit with RW and PG.
-
Marc Stein: My sense is that the Grizzlies, since that Jan. 14 tweet, have indeed been quietly gauging the Gasol landscape and assessing their options — even though their preference surely remains not trading him. – via New York Times
If (when?) the Grizzlies reach the point that they are truly prepared to break up their star duo of Gasol and Mike Conley, one potential trade scenario I’ve heard would involve Memphis insisting to any interested team that Chandler Parsons must be involved in the same trade. – via New York Times
What team wants to pay Marc Gasol the functional equivalent of $48 million this season and $50 million next? That’s crazy talk.
honestly my first thought was Batum and Charlotte. I came up with something like this.
Gasol, Parsons for Batum, Zeller, Lamb, lotto protected 1st
I could see Charlotte but they have the uncertainty with Kemba. The Wizards should jump at the chance to get out from under the Wall contract. Same with the Cavs and Love.
Yeah, I can honestly see the Grizzlies going the other way and deciding to keep Gasol and Conley, and trade for someone like Love to add to them.
They can't as they have nothing of any real value to trade (aside from Jackson, Gasol, or Conley) and the Cavs have gotten a fair amount of interest in Love, such that they can actually trade him for value (not a lot, but some). That is the Grizzlies real problem is they just don't have many assets on their team right now aside from their top 4 pick and their 2 aging stars. They need to come to that realization and trade Gasol now and see what they can get for Conley.
A fair amount of interest, based on what info?
Love's contract is a negative long term asset, that is irrefutable fact.
I don't know who is offering anything of value for him.
If by the value you mean getting another albatross contract (+ expiring) + some top 20 protected 2023 pick, then ok.
But then again why would Memphis clog their cap space and give future picks with an aged, often injured, over the hill star as they are entering the rebuilding phase, is beyond my imagination. Especially since they owe us a pick and they don't know when it will convey and they, due to Cleveland's own Ted Stepien rule, can't send another 1st rounder until 2023.
Based on all the rumors and several different teams including the Pelicans, Thunder, Jazz, Lakers, Rockets, Nuggets, Pacers, and Heat have all been linked to Love this season and some of them even last week. Love has to get back on the court and play though for the Cavs to be able to get full value (whatever that is).
So apparently several teams disagree with your irrefutable fact.
Read more efficiently.
I wrote that he is a longterm negative asset, not that there is no team willing to accept a negative asset in a trade.
but those teams aren't looking at him that way. The rumors are that the Cavs will get value for him and not have to give up value to unload him. that means he is not a long term negative asset.
I must say this seems really hard to believe because he is owed 120 million dollars for the next 4 years and has battled all kinds of injuries in his 20's (including scary back stuff). How can you feel comfortable paying him for 4 years of his 30's (he turned 30 this season)? I am curious what a potential value deal is for him? If you have seen any legit rumors I would love to see them.
It would be a young player (low to mid tier value), some form of contract (likely a year or two), and a 1st (likely a late or highly protected one). Nothing great and if Love is healthy he has more value as a player then they could get for him (by a wide margin). The thing is no one is all that interested until Love steps foot back on the court and he can't actually be traded until tomorrow at the earliest so there was never going to be anything close to a serious talk until then anyway, which is why there aren't any real solid rumors. That said, I saw something last week linking the Thunder to Love and the trades I saw brandied about was something like Schroder, Diallo, and Noel. That trade actually seemingly made sense for both teams, but that is only if Love actually shows he can play this year.
It seems like that deal would really hurt OKC's depth wouldn't it? Schroeder is playing nearly 30 minutes a game for them and averaging 15.5 and 5 (and i think some good perimeter defense). Noel is only playing about 15 points a game but is pretty effective in those minutes averaging a steal, block and 5 points and 5 rebounds with good defense while WOJ recently called Diallo a revelation for the thunder at 20 years old.
https://okcthunderwire.usatoday.com/2018/11/28/oklahoma-city-thunder-hamidou-diallo-revelation-adrian-wojnarowski-espn/
Why in the world would the Thunder cash out all those guys for someone who is going to be a third or 4th option on there team and get 120 million over 4 years?
because Love is better than those guys and thus is a much better fit with RW and PG.
Wrong. Love used to be better than those guys. Now, those guys, with their use and ability to grow are better than Love. And they don't financially handicap a team that is about as limited in their financials as any team.
The Thunder can afford two max players plus good cheap parts elsewhere. There is no way they can afford three max contracts for multiple years and afford the surrounding parts that take them over the top. They tried it before and it didn't work.
OKC never would do that trade for Love. Not even close.
-
Marc Stein: My sense is that the Grizzlies, since that Jan. 14 tweet, have indeed been quietly gauging the Gasol landscape and assessing their options — even though their preference surely remains not trading him. – via New York Times
If (when?) the Grizzlies reach the point that they are truly prepared to break up their star duo of Gasol and Mike Conley, one potential trade scenario I’ve heard would involve Memphis insisting to any interested team that Chandler Parsons must be involved in the same trade. – via New York Times
What team wants to pay Marc Gasol the functional equivalent of $48 million this season and $50 million next? That’s crazy talk.
honestly my first thought was Batum and Charlotte. I came up with something like this.
Gasol, Parsons for Batum, Zeller, Lamb, lotto protected 1st
I could see Charlotte but they have the uncertainty with Kemba. The Wizards should jump at the chance to get out from under the Wall contract. Same with the Cavs and Love.
Yeah, I can honestly see the Grizzlies going the other way and deciding to keep Gasol and Conley, and trade for someone like Love to add to them.
They can't as they have nothing of any real value to trade (aside from Jackson, Gasol, or Conley) and the Cavs have gotten a fair amount of interest in Love, such that they can actually trade him for value (not a lot, but some). That is the Grizzlies real problem is they just don't have many assets on their team right now aside from their top 4 pick and their 2 aging stars. They need to come to that realization and trade Gasol now and see what they can get for Conley.
A fair amount of interest, based on what info?
Love's contract is a negative long term asset, that is irrefutable fact.
I don't know who is offering anything of value for him.
If by the value you mean getting another albatross contract (+ expiring) + some top 20 protected 2023 pick, then ok.
But then again why would Memphis clog their cap space and give future picks with an aged, often injured, over the hill star as they are entering the rebuilding phase, is beyond my imagination. Especially since they owe us a pick and they don't know when it will convey and they, due to Cleveland's own Ted Stepien rule, can't send another 1st rounder until 2023.
Based on all the rumors and several different teams including the Pelicans, Thunder, Jazz, Lakers, Rockets, Nuggets, Pacers, and Heat have all been linked to Love this season and some of them even last week. Love has to get back on the court and play though for the Cavs to be able to get full value (whatever that is).
So apparently several teams disagree with your irrefutable fact.
Read more efficiently.
I wrote that he is a longterm negative asset, not that there is no team willing to accept a negative asset in a trade.
but those teams aren't looking at him that way. The rumors are that the Cavs will get value for him and not have to give up value to unload him. that means he is not a long term negative asset.
I must say this seems really hard to believe because he is owed 120 million dollars for the next 4 years and has battled all kinds of injuries in his 20's (including scary back stuff). How can you feel comfortable paying him for 4 years of his 30's (he turned 30 this season)? I am curious what a potential value deal is for him? If you have seen any legit rumors I would love to see them.
It would be a young player (low to mid tier value), some form of contract (likely a year or two), and a 1st (likely a late or highly protected one). Nothing great and if Love is healthy he has more value as a player then they could get for him (by a wide margin). The thing is no one is all that interested until Love steps foot back on the court and he can't actually be traded until tomorrow at the earliest so there was never going to be anything close to a serious talk until then anyway, which is why there aren't any real solid rumors. That said, I saw something last week linking the Thunder to Love and the trades I saw brandied about was something like Schroder, Diallo, and Noel. That trade actually seemingly made sense for both teams, but that is only if Love actually shows he can play this year.
It seems like that deal would really hurt OKC's depth wouldn't it? Schroeder is playing nearly 30 minutes a game for them and averaging 15.5 and 5 (and i think some good perimeter defense). Noel is only playing about 15 points a game but is pretty effective in those minutes averaging a steal, block and 5 points and 5 rebounds with good defense while WOJ recently called Diallo a revelation for the thunder at 20 years old.
https://okcthunderwire.usatoday.com/2018/11/28/oklahoma-city-thunder-hamidou-diallo-revelation-adrian-wojnarowski-espn/
Why in the world would the Thunder cash out all those guys for someone who is going to be a third or 4th option on there team and get 120 million over 4 years?
because Love is better than those guys and thus is a much better fit with RW and PG.
Only Cavs fans would do this trade. This makes OKC worse.
-
Marc Stein: My sense is that the Grizzlies, since that Jan. 14 tweet, have indeed been quietly gauging the Gasol landscape and assessing their options — even though their preference surely remains not trading him. – via New York Times
If (when?) the Grizzlies reach the point that they are truly prepared to break up their star duo of Gasol and Mike Conley, one potential trade scenario I’ve heard would involve Memphis insisting to any interested team that Chandler Parsons must be involved in the same trade. – via New York Times
What team wants to pay Marc Gasol the functional equivalent of $48 million this season and $50 million next? That’s crazy talk.
honestly my first thought was Batum and Charlotte. I came up with something like this.
Gasol, Parsons for Batum, Zeller, Lamb, lotto protected 1st
I could see Charlotte but they have the uncertainty with Kemba. The Wizards should jump at the chance to get out from under the Wall contract. Same with the Cavs and Love.
Yeah, I can honestly see the Grizzlies going the other way and deciding to keep Gasol and Conley, and trade for someone like Love to add to them.
They can't as they have nothing of any real value to trade (aside from Jackson, Gasol, or Conley) and the Cavs have gotten a fair amount of interest in Love, such that they can actually trade him for value (not a lot, but some). That is the Grizzlies real problem is they just don't have many assets on their team right now aside from their top 4 pick and their 2 aging stars. They need to come to that realization and trade Gasol now and see what they can get for Conley.
A fair amount of interest, based on what info?
Love's contract is a negative long term asset, that is irrefutable fact.
I don't know who is offering anything of value for him.
If by the value you mean getting another albatross contract (+ expiring) + some top 20 protected 2023 pick, then ok.
But then again why would Memphis clog their cap space and give future picks with an aged, often injured, over the hill star as they are entering the rebuilding phase, is beyond my imagination. Especially since they owe us a pick and they don't know when it will convey and they, due to Cleveland's own Ted Stepien rule, can't send another 1st rounder until 2023.
Based on all the rumors and several different teams including the Pelicans, Thunder, Jazz, Lakers, Rockets, Nuggets, Pacers, and Heat have all been linked to Love this season and some of them even last week. Love has to get back on the court and play though for the Cavs to be able to get full value (whatever that is).
So apparently several teams disagree with your irrefutable fact.
Read more efficiently.
I wrote that he is a longterm negative asset, not that there is no team willing to accept a negative asset in a trade.
but those teams aren't looking at him that way. The rumors are that the Cavs will get value for him and not have to give up value to unload him. that means he is not a long term negative asset.
I must say this seems really hard to believe because he is owed 120 million dollars for the next 4 years and has battled all kinds of injuries in his 20's (including scary back stuff). How can you feel comfortable paying him for 4 years of his 30's (he turned 30 this season)? I am curious what a potential value deal is for him? If you have seen any legit rumors I would love to see them.
It would be a young player (low to mid tier value), some form of contract (likely a year or two), and a 1st (likely a late or highly protected one). Nothing great and if Love is healthy he has more value as a player then they could get for him (by a wide margin). The thing is no one is all that interested until Love steps foot back on the court and he can't actually be traded until tomorrow at the earliest so there was never going to be anything close to a serious talk until then anyway, which is why there aren't any real solid rumors. That said, I saw something last week linking the Thunder to Love and the trades I saw brandied about was something like Schroder, Diallo, and Noel. That trade actually seemingly made sense for both teams, but that is only if Love actually shows he can play this year.
It seems like that deal would really hurt OKC's depth wouldn't it? Schroeder is playing nearly 30 minutes a game for them and averaging 15.5 and 5 (and i think some good perimeter defense). Noel is only playing about 15 points a game but is pretty effective in those minutes averaging a steal, block and 5 points and 5 rebounds with good defense while WOJ recently called Diallo a revelation for the thunder at 20 years old.
https://okcthunderwire.usatoday.com/2018/11/28/oklahoma-city-thunder-hamidou-diallo-revelation-adrian-wojnarowski-espn/
Why in the world would the Thunder cash out all those guys for someone who is going to be a third or 4th option on there team and get 120 million over 4 years?
because Love is better than those guys and thus is a much better fit with RW and PG.
Only Cavs fans would do this trade. This makes OKC worse.
it was rumors from mostly national or thunder sites. I'm just passing along what I read.
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Marc Stein: My sense is that the Grizzlies, since that Jan. 14 tweet, have indeed been quietly gauging the Gasol landscape and assessing their options — even though their preference surely remains not trading him. – via New York Times
If (when?) the Grizzlies reach the point that they are truly prepared to break up their star duo of Gasol and Mike Conley, one potential trade scenario I’ve heard would involve Memphis insisting to any interested team that Chandler Parsons must be involved in the same trade. – via New York Times
What team wants to pay Marc Gasol the functional equivalent of $48 million this season and $50 million next? That’s crazy talk.
honestly my first thought was Batum and Charlotte. I came up with something like this.
Gasol, Parsons for Batum, Zeller, Lamb, lotto protected 1st
I could see Charlotte but they have the uncertainty with Kemba. The Wizards should jump at the chance to get out from under the Wall contract. Same with the Cavs and Love.
Yeah, I can honestly see the Grizzlies going the other way and deciding to keep Gasol and Conley, and trade for someone like Love to add to them.
They can't as they have nothing of any real value to trade (aside from Jackson, Gasol, or Conley) and the Cavs have gotten a fair amount of interest in Love, such that they can actually trade him for value (not a lot, but some). That is the Grizzlies real problem is they just don't have many assets on their team right now aside from their top 4 pick and their 2 aging stars. They need to come to that realization and trade Gasol now and see what they can get for Conley.
A fair amount of interest, based on what info?
Love's contract is a negative long term asset, that is irrefutable fact.
I don't know who is offering anything of value for him.
If by the value you mean getting another albatross contract (+ expiring) + some top 20 protected 2023 pick, then ok.
But then again why would Memphis clog their cap space and give future picks with an aged, often injured, over the hill star as they are entering the rebuilding phase, is beyond my imagination. Especially since they owe us a pick and they don't know when it will convey and they, due to Cleveland's own Ted Stepien rule, can't send another 1st rounder until 2023.
Based on all the rumors and several different teams including the Pelicans, Thunder, Jazz, Lakers, Rockets, Nuggets, Pacers, and Heat have all been linked to Love this season and some of them even last week. Love has to get back on the court and play though for the Cavs to be able to get full value (whatever that is).
So apparently several teams disagree with your irrefutable fact.
Read more efficiently.
I wrote that he is a longterm negative asset, not that there is no team willing to accept a negative asset in a trade.
but those teams aren't looking at him that way. The rumors are that the Cavs will get value for him and not have to give up value to unload him. that means he is not a long term negative asset.
I must say this seems really hard to believe because he is owed 120 million dollars for the next 4 years and has battled all kinds of injuries in his 20's (including scary back stuff). How can you feel comfortable paying him for 4 years of his 30's (he turned 30 this season)? I am curious what a potential value deal is for him? If you have seen any legit rumors I would love to see them.
It would be a young player (low to mid tier value), some form of contract (likely a year or two), and a 1st (likely a late or highly protected one). Nothing great and if Love is healthy he has more value as a player then they could get for him (by a wide margin). The thing is no one is all that interested until Love steps foot back on the court and he can't actually be traded until tomorrow at the earliest so there was never going to be anything close to a serious talk until then anyway, which is why there aren't any real solid rumors. That said, I saw something last week linking the Thunder to Love and the trades I saw brandied about was something like Schroder, Diallo, and Noel. That trade actually seemingly made sense for both teams, but that is only if Love actually shows he can play this year.
It seems like that deal would really hurt OKC's depth wouldn't it? Schroeder is playing nearly 30 minutes a game for them and averaging 15.5 and 5 (and i think some good perimeter defense). Noel is only playing about 15 points a game but is pretty effective in those minutes averaging a steal, block and 5 points and 5 rebounds with good defense while WOJ recently called Diallo a revelation for the thunder at 20 years old.
https://okcthunderwire.usatoday.com/2018/11/28/oklahoma-city-thunder-hamidou-diallo-revelation-adrian-wojnarowski-espn/
Why in the world would the Thunder cash out all those guys for someone who is going to be a third or 4th option on there team and get 120 million over 4 years?
because Love is better than those guys and thus is a much better fit with RW and PG.
Only Cavs fans would do this trade. This makes OKC worse.
Let's reflect on OKC's trade history for just a moment.
This is the franchise that, at one time not long ago, featured Westbrook, Harden, Durant, AND Serge I'm not sure anything they've really done since has made them better. Imagine what a real coach, one worthy of the roster, and an ownership group that could draw sponsors like crazy to keep them together, might have been. That was a baby superteam. And maybe a lesson for our talented young team.
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Marc Stein: My sense is that the Grizzlies, since that Jan. 14 tweet, have indeed been quietly gauging the Gasol landscape and assessing their options — even though their preference surely remains not trading him. – via New York Times
If (when?) the Grizzlies reach the point that they are truly prepared to break up their star duo of Gasol and Mike Conley, one potential trade scenario I’ve heard would involve Memphis insisting to any interested team that Chandler Parsons must be involved in the same trade. – via New York Times
What team wants to pay Marc Gasol the functional equivalent of $48 million this season and $50 million next? That’s crazy talk.
honestly my first thought was Batum and Charlotte. I came up with something like this.
Gasol, Parsons for Batum, Zeller, Lamb, lotto protected 1st
I could see Charlotte but they have the uncertainty with Kemba. The Wizards should jump at the chance to get out from under the Wall contract. Same with the Cavs and Love.
Yeah, I can honestly see the Grizzlies going the other way and deciding to keep Gasol and Conley, and trade for someone like Love to add to them.
They can't as they have nothing of any real value to trade (aside from Jackson, Gasol, or Conley) and the Cavs have gotten a fair amount of interest in Love, such that they can actually trade him for value (not a lot, but some). That is the Grizzlies real problem is they just don't have many assets on their team right now aside from their top 4 pick and their 2 aging stars. They need to come to that realization and trade Gasol now and see what they can get for Conley.
A fair amount of interest, based on what info?
Love's contract is a negative long term asset, that is irrefutable fact.
I don't know who is offering anything of value for him.
If by the value you mean getting another albatross contract (+ expiring) + some top 20 protected 2023 pick, then ok.
But then again why would Memphis clog their cap space and give future picks with an aged, often injured, over the hill star as they are entering the rebuilding phase, is beyond my imagination. Especially since they owe us a pick and they don't know when it will convey and they, due to Cleveland's own Ted Stepien rule, can't send another 1st rounder until 2023.
Based on all the rumors and several different teams including the Pelicans, Thunder, Jazz, Lakers, Rockets, Nuggets, Pacers, and Heat have all been linked to Love this season and some of them even last week. Love has to get back on the court and play though for the Cavs to be able to get full value (whatever that is).
So apparently several teams disagree with your irrefutable fact.
Read more efficiently.
I wrote that he is a longterm negative asset, not that there is no team willing to accept a negative asset in a trade.
but those teams aren't looking at him that way. The rumors are that the Cavs will get value for him and not have to give up value to unload him. that means he is not a long term negative asset.
I must say this seems really hard to believe because he is owed 120 million dollars for the next 4 years and has battled all kinds of injuries in his 20's (including scary back stuff). How can you feel comfortable paying him for 4 years of his 30's (he turned 30 this season)? I am curious what a potential value deal is for him? If you have seen any legit rumors I would love to see them.
It would be a young player (low to mid tier value), some form of contract (likely a year or two), and a 1st (likely a late or highly protected one). Nothing great and if Love is healthy he has more value as a player then they could get for him (by a wide margin). The thing is no one is all that interested until Love steps foot back on the court and he can't actually be traded until tomorrow at the earliest so there was never going to be anything close to a serious talk until then anyway, which is why there aren't any real solid rumors. That said, I saw something last week linking the Thunder to Love and the trades I saw brandied about was something like Schroder, Diallo, and Noel. That trade actually seemingly made sense for both teams, but that is only if Love actually shows he can play this year.
It seems like that deal would really hurt OKC's depth wouldn't it? Schroeder is playing nearly 30 minutes a game for them and averaging 15.5 and 5 (and i think some good perimeter defense). Noel is only playing about 15 points a game but is pretty effective in those minutes averaging a steal, block and 5 points and 5 rebounds with good defense while WOJ recently called Diallo a revelation for the thunder at 20 years old.
https://okcthunderwire.usatoday.com/2018/11/28/oklahoma-city-thunder-hamidou-diallo-revelation-adrian-wojnarowski-espn/
Why in the world would the Thunder cash out all those guys for someone who is going to be a third or 4th option on there team and get 120 million over 4 years?
because Love is better than those guys and thus is a much better fit with RW and PG.
Only Cavs fans would do this trade. This makes OKC worse.
Gotta call shenanigans here. Love is an NBA champion - OKC would have every incentive to do this deal. I mean... if the Celtics can pay Gordon Hayward Top 5 money to be a redundant bench player OKC can pay Love to be their third scorer.
-
Marc Stein: My sense is that the Grizzlies, since that Jan. 14 tweet, have indeed been quietly gauging the Gasol landscape and assessing their options — even though their preference surely remains not trading him. – via New York Times
If (when?) the Grizzlies reach the point that they are truly prepared to break up their star duo of Gasol and Mike Conley, one potential trade scenario I’ve heard would involve Memphis insisting to any interested team that Chandler Parsons must be involved in the same trade. – via New York Times
What team wants to pay Marc Gasol the functional equivalent of $48 million this season and $50 million next? That’s crazy talk.
honestly my first thought was Batum and Charlotte. I came up with something like this.
Gasol, Parsons for Batum, Zeller, Lamb, lotto protected 1st
I could see Charlotte but they have the uncertainty with Kemba. The Wizards should jump at the chance to get out from under the Wall contract. Same with the Cavs and Love.
Yeah, I can honestly see the Grizzlies going the other way and deciding to keep Gasol and Conley, and trade for someone like Love to add to them.
They can't as they have nothing of any real value to trade (aside from Jackson, Gasol, or Conley) and the Cavs have gotten a fair amount of interest in Love, such that they can actually trade him for value (not a lot, but some). That is the Grizzlies real problem is they just don't have many assets on their team right now aside from their top 4 pick and their 2 aging stars. They need to come to that realization and trade Gasol now and see what they can get for Conley.
A fair amount of interest, based on what info?
Love's contract is a negative long term asset, that is irrefutable fact.
I don't know who is offering anything of value for him.
If by the value you mean getting another albatross contract (+ expiring) + some top 20 protected 2023 pick, then ok.
But then again why would Memphis clog their cap space and give future picks with an aged, often injured, over the hill star as they are entering the rebuilding phase, is beyond my imagination. Especially since they owe us a pick and they don't know when it will convey and they, due to Cleveland's own Ted Stepien rule, can't send another 1st rounder until 2023.
Based on all the rumors and several different teams including the Pelicans, Thunder, Jazz, Lakers, Rockets, Nuggets, Pacers, and Heat have all been linked to Love this season and some of them even last week. Love has to get back on the court and play though for the Cavs to be able to get full value (whatever that is).
So apparently several teams disagree with your irrefutable fact.
Read more efficiently.
I wrote that he is a longterm negative asset, not that there is no team willing to accept a negative asset in a trade.
but those teams aren't looking at him that way. The rumors are that the Cavs will get value for him and not have to give up value to unload him. that means he is not a long term negative asset.
I must say this seems really hard to believe because he is owed 120 million dollars for the next 4 years and has battled all kinds of injuries in his 20's (including scary back stuff). How can you feel comfortable paying him for 4 years of his 30's (he turned 30 this season)? I am curious what a potential value deal is for him? If you have seen any legit rumors I would love to see them.
It would be a young player (low to mid tier value), some form of contract (likely a year or two), and a 1st (likely a late or highly protected one). Nothing great and if Love is healthy he has more value as a player then they could get for him (by a wide margin). The thing is no one is all that interested until Love steps foot back on the court and he can't actually be traded until tomorrow at the earliest so there was never going to be anything close to a serious talk until then anyway, which is why there aren't any real solid rumors. That said, I saw something last week linking the Thunder to Love and the trades I saw brandied about was something like Schroder, Diallo, and Noel. That trade actually seemingly made sense for both teams, but that is only if Love actually shows he can play this year.
It seems like that deal would really hurt OKC's depth wouldn't it? Schroeder is playing nearly 30 minutes a game for them and averaging 15.5 and 5 (and i think some good perimeter defense). Noel is only playing about 15 points a game but is pretty effective in those minutes averaging a steal, block and 5 points and 5 rebounds with good defense while WOJ recently called Diallo a revelation for the thunder at 20 years old.
https://okcthunderwire.usatoday.com/2018/11/28/oklahoma-city-thunder-hamidou-diallo-revelation-adrian-wojnarowski-espn/
Why in the world would the Thunder cash out all those guys for someone who is going to be a third or 4th option on there team and get 120 million over 4 years?
because Love is better than those guys and thus is a much better fit with RW and PG.
Only Cavs fans would do this trade. This makes OKC worse.
Gotta call shenanigans here. Love is an NBA champion - OKC would have every incentive to do this deal. I mean... if the Celtics can pay Gordon Hayward Top 5 money to be a redundant bench player OKC can pay Love to be their third scorer.
Yeah I think that would make the Thunder a lot better and with the big contracts to RW, PG, and SA they aren't adding talent to the team any other way (and the reality is to keep Schroder, Noel, and Diallo they are probably paying as much or more than Love).
Now that trade needs a bit more salary (leaving OKC) to actually work so say the trade is something like this
Love, Frye, Payne for Schroder, Noel, Diallo, Patterson (if OKC wanted to move on from Roberson, then Burks or Clarkson could be added as well giving OKC more usable depth this year)
So Post-Trade for OKC they would be below, and I really like the makeup of that team. I think they could cause GS problems and if the Warriors break-up this summer, OKC might very well be the title favorite next year.
PG - Westbrook, Payne, Felton
Wings - George, Ferguson, Abrines, Nader, Luwawu-Cabarrot (eventually Roberson is back)
Bigs - Adams, Love, Grant, Frye
Again this is all pre-conditioned on Love actually stepping foot back on the court and showing he can still play because that is the only way that sort of trade makes sense for the Thunder, but if Love can do that, I do think that sort of trade makes perfect sense for both teams.
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https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/252343/Cavaliers-Have-No-Interest-In-Trading-Kevin-Love
I guess we should take their word for it?
-
Marc Stein: My sense is that the Grizzlies, since that Jan. 14 tweet, have indeed been quietly gauging the Gasol landscape and assessing their options — even though their preference surely remains not trading him. – via New York Times
If (when?) the Grizzlies reach the point that they are truly prepared to break up their star duo of Gasol and Mike Conley, one potential trade scenario I’ve heard would involve Memphis insisting to any interested team that Chandler Parsons must be involved in the same trade. – via New York Times
What team wants to pay Marc Gasol the functional equivalent of $48 million this season and $50 million next? That’s crazy talk.
honestly my first thought was Batum and Charlotte. I came up with something like this.
Gasol, Parsons for Batum, Zeller, Lamb, lotto protected 1st
I could see Charlotte but they have the uncertainty with Kemba. The Wizards should jump at the chance to get out from under the Wall contract. Same with the Cavs and Love.
Yeah, I can honestly see the Grizzlies going the other way and deciding to keep Gasol and Conley, and trade for someone like Love to add to them.
They can't as they have nothing of any real value to trade (aside from Jackson, Gasol, or Conley) and the Cavs have gotten a fair amount of interest in Love, such that they can actually trade him for value (not a lot, but some). That is the Grizzlies real problem is they just don't have many assets on their team right now aside from their top 4 pick and their 2 aging stars. They need to come to that realization and trade Gasol now and see what they can get for Conley.
A fair amount of interest, based on what info?
Love's contract is a negative long term asset, that is irrefutable fact.
I don't know who is offering anything of value for him.
If by the value you mean getting another albatross contract (+ expiring) + some top 20 protected 2023 pick, then ok.
But then again why would Memphis clog their cap space and give future picks with an aged, often injured, over the hill star as they are entering the rebuilding phase, is beyond my imagination. Especially since they owe us a pick and they don't know when it will convey and they, due to Cleveland's own Ted Stepien rule, can't send another 1st rounder until 2023.
Based on all the rumors and several different teams including the Pelicans, Thunder, Jazz, Lakers, Rockets, Nuggets, Pacers, and Heat have all been linked to Love this season and some of them even last week. Love has to get back on the court and play though for the Cavs to be able to get full value (whatever that is).
So apparently several teams disagree with your irrefutable fact.
Read more efficiently.
I wrote that he is a longterm negative asset, not that there is no team willing to accept a negative asset in a trade.
but those teams aren't looking at him that way. The rumors are that the Cavs will get value for him and not have to give up value to unload him. that means he is not a long term negative asset.
I must say this seems really hard to believe because he is owed 120 million dollars for the next 4 years and has battled all kinds of injuries in his 20's (including scary back stuff). How can you feel comfortable paying him for 4 years of his 30's (he turned 30 this season)? I am curious what a potential value deal is for him? If you have seen any legit rumors I would love to see them.
It would be a young player (low to mid tier value), some form of contract (likely a year or two), and a 1st (likely a late or highly protected one). Nothing great and if Love is healthy he has more value as a player then they could get for him (by a wide margin). The thing is no one is all that interested until Love steps foot back on the court and he can't actually be traded until tomorrow at the earliest so there was never going to be anything close to a serious talk until then anyway, which is why there aren't any real solid rumors. That said, I saw something last week linking the Thunder to Love and the trades I saw brandied about was something like Schroder, Diallo, and Noel. That trade actually seemingly made sense for both teams, but that is only if Love actually shows he can play this year.
It seems like that deal would really hurt OKC's depth wouldn't it? Schroeder is playing nearly 30 minutes a game for them and averaging 15.5 and 5 (and i think some good perimeter defense). Noel is only playing about 15 points a game but is pretty effective in those minutes averaging a steal, block and 5 points and 5 rebounds with good defense while WOJ recently called Diallo a revelation for the thunder at 20 years old.
https://okcthunderwire.usatoday.com/2018/11/28/oklahoma-city-thunder-hamidou-diallo-revelation-adrian-wojnarowski-espn/
Why in the world would the Thunder cash out all those guys for someone who is going to be a third or 4th option on there team and get 120 million over 4 years?
because Love is better than those guys and thus is a much better fit with RW and PG.
Only Cavs fans would do this trade. This makes OKC worse.
Gotta call shenanigans here. Love is an NBA champion - OKC would have every incentive to do this deal. I mean... if the Celtics can pay Gordon Hayward Top 5 money to be a redundant bench player OKC can pay Love to be their third scorer.
It truly is amazing how everything you post circles back to insulting Hayward. Are you some furious Jazz fan?
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https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/252343/Cavaliers-Have-No-Interest-In-Trading-Kevin-Love
I guess we should take their word for it?
Yes and no. The Cavs aren't going to go out of their way to trade Love, but they would absolutely trade him if the right offer came along. What the right offer is, is of course up for debate. And again, until Love actually steps foot on the court again, I think it is all a moot point as no team would offer anything close what it would take for the Cavs to trade him until he showed he was healthy.
That said, we should bring this thread back to Memphis so unless the trade proposal involves the Grizzlies, we should probably keep the Love stuff out of it (and I know I was a big culprit in that, but it is time to move back to Memphis, in this Memphis thread).
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I have to say, I'll be surprised if Memphis actually moves either of Gasol or Conley this season. It appears keeping them both isn't getting in the way of them getting a high pick, so unless they feel either of them are going to lose value between now and this summer, it's not the best move (unless someone made a godfather type offer).
There's still a chance Memphis could bring in a big piece to help Gasol/Conley (a high pick this summer plus Jackson would be a strong offer), so until that is no longer feasible I think Memphis stays in a holding pattern. Small market teams don't usually ditch players of their caliber, who are also fan favorites, until there is no other option.
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I have to say, I'll be surprised if Memphis actually moves either of Gasol or Conley this season. It appears keeping them both isn't getting in the way of them getting a high pick, so unless they feel either of them are going to lose value between now and this summer, it's not the best move (unless someone made a godfather type offer).
There's still a chance Memphis could bring in a big piece to help Gasol/Conley (a high pick this summer plus Jackson would be a strong offer), so until that is no longer feasible I think Memphis stays in a holding pattern. Small market teams don't usually ditch players of their caliber, who are also fan favorites, until there is no other option.
Enjoyed the talk about Kevin Love but glad to get back on track with Grizz talk.
I agree that I'd be surprised, but I think they should try to move Conley. A big reason for this is they are way out of contention in the West and in the bottom 6 teams overall, so regarding your 2nd point, they'd be fools to trade JJJ and a top 8 pick for someone that 50/50 doesn't even get them into the playoffs next year.
So, I'd say they need to blow it up. They don't even have any players worth anything besides Gasol, Conley and JJJ (maybe JGreen). Gasol's productive but slowing down, and he's expensive. A bit plodding for a big today too.
Conley is even more expensive, but a team needing a PG that has a bad contract or 2, and a good young player or a pick, could benefit from a Conley trade. Orlando with Conley-Fournier-SF-Gordon-Vucevic could sneak into the playoffs.
If I were Memphis, I'd deal Conley ASAP. He's not getting younger, and his deal is only getting shorter. He's valuable, just overpaid. Deal him- Gasol comes after.
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Start the Memphis Grizzlies 2019-20 Season Watch Thread. This Memphis team will easily finish in bottom 8 this year. Time to focus on next year.
Wow you were fast. I only now officially give up on the 2019 pick. :P
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https://www.theringer.com/nba/2019/1/28/18200033/grizzlies-marc-gasol-mike-conley-rebuild
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https://www.theringer.com/nba/2019/1/28/18200033/grizzlies-marc-gasol-mike-conley-rebuild
2021 unprotected looking good!
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https://www.commercialappeal.com/story/sports/2019/01/29/memphis-grizzlies-trade-marc-gasol-mike-conley-news-and-rumors/2699728002/
The Ringer reported Monday that the Pistons and Kings have inquired about Marc Gasol.
But Jason Anderson of the Sacramento Bee reported that, as of Tuesday, Gasol is not in the Kings' plans before the trade deadline.
A source subsequently told the Detroit Free Press that a deal to bring Gasol to Detroit is unlikely.
Basketball Insiders labeled the Trail Blazers as the top team to watch in a potential deal for Gasol.
https://www.theringer.com/nba/2019/1/28/18200033/grizzlies-marc-gasol-mike-conley-rebuild
Cool. From your link:
The Jazz inquired about Conley, according to The Athletic’s Tony Jones, but there are mostly crickets elsewhere. The majority of teams already have capable lead orchestrators, and the teams that do need a point guard may not want to add a player on the wrong side of 30 who will be worth $34.5 million in two years and is only one year removed from having surgery to repair a bone protrusion in his left heel. It’s unclear whether any teams that could use an upgrade at the position—like the Heat, Pacers, Pelicans, Pistons, Magic, Mavericks, and Timberwolves—will make an acceptable offer.
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Memphis is now 2-16 in their last 18 games.
Given the fact that any team trading for Anthony Davis is going to get better as a result of having him, if this Memphis pick rolls over, is this the single most valuable asset a team could offer for AD this summer?
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Memphis is now 2-16 in their last 18 games.
Given the fact that any team trading for Anthony Davis is going to get better as a result of having him, if this Memphis pick rolls over, is this the single most valuable asset a team could offer for AD this summer?
-If the 2019 Knicks pick is top 1 that is by far the single most valuable asset, Tatum included.
-If the 2019 Knicks pick is top 2 you could argue that R.J. Barrett is still more valuable than Tatum due to the unknown commodity factor and that he would be cost controlled for longer.
-After that I'd agree that the uncovey'ed Memphis Pick is the next most valuable asset.
-Tatum himself would be next.
-Porzingis is possibly in there some where but he doesn't have much left on his deal and is coming off a lost season.
-After that it depends on how NO values Kuzma, Jaylen, Ingram, Ball, and Kevin Knox.
-Sixers could technically trump all of that if they included Embid or Simmons
-Raptors have not much
-Bucks have not much
-Houston has Capela, but IMO he is worth more to an already established franchise
-GS has a sign and trade Draymond but IMO he is worth more to an already established franchise
- Sac is an interesting Dark Horse since they could offer Bagley and others
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For all the bad news with SAC and LAC picks, the reported Gasol return (Valanciunas, a 2nd and filler) is somewhat light.
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For all the bad news with SAC and LAC picks, the reported Gasol return (Valanciunas, a 2nd and filler) is somewhat light.
At least something to feel good about :D. TP.
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I hope they start Jaren Jackson at center and bring Valanciunas off the bench. I really want to see Jackson play in his best position.
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I hope they start Jaren Jackson at center and bring Valanciunas off the bench. I really want to see Jackson play in his best position.
I really liked Jackson as a player coming into the league. After Doncic, he was second on my draft board/list last year. I think he gets lots of run now, especially with Val being as banged up as he has been this year. Val hasn't played since mid December. Jackson is going to get a lot of minutes, maybe 30-31 the rest of the year. Maybe a tick more. He went for 37 minutes last game.
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Mack traded
Casspi waived (injured)
Outgoing: Gasol, JaMychal Green, Garrett Temple, Shelvin Mack, Omri Casspi
Incoming: Avery Bradley, Delon Wright, CJ Miles, Valanciunas
Not sure what else I missed
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Seeing online that Parsons is rejoining the team after ASB
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6th right now and it's hard to imagine them jumping in front of anyone that currently has a better record.
With all of the uncertainty around the way the Celtics are playing right now, let's take a moment to think about how they're 2 games out of the 3rd seed and have this incredibly valuable asset.
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Memphis won again. Should we worry that this might actually convey this year?
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Memphis won again. Should we worry that this might actually convey this year?
nothing to worry about. New Orleans will accept any picks. A top 9 pick is nothing to shrug at either. The klay thompsons of the world are drafted in that region
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Grizzlies beating the thunder right now on way to 30th pick. Barring a crazy collapse here they will be tied for the 7th and 8th slow with wizards and one game away from passing the hard tanking pels. I know some people don’t want it, but pretty good chance we get another lottery pick this year
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Tp....I like it too!
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Grizz win.
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I think it has more trade value by rolling over to next season, no?
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It's probably in the Grizzlies best interest. If they lose Conley, they could be a lot worse next season.
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I would be thrilled with the 9th pick from them this year
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I would be thrilled with the 9th pick from them this year
Who would you pick at nine?
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I would be thrilled with the 9th pick from them this year
Who would you pick at nine?
whoever the pels wants
If the pels want no one, trade down for a future lotto pick +more
If the pels don't deal with us, id like to trade down 3 spots and take whoever is left of okpala, culver, or alexander-walker
I dont trust cam reddish (projected at 8-10 range) with his terrible numbers at duke
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I would be thrilled with the 9th pick from them this year
Who would you pick at nine?
I'd be interested in Little, Doumbouya, Fernando, Garland or maybe Coby White.
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I would be thrilled with the 9th pick from them this year
Me too....instead of a crapshoot next year....look at Sac this year.
Speaking of whom, they keep losing and could get overtaken by Mia, Orl and even Charlotte.
Could end up 13...12 unlikely.
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I would be thrilled with the 9th pick from them this year
Who would you pick at nine?
I'd be interested in Little, Doumbouya, Fernando, Garland or maybe Coby White.
I would love if we could pick up Rui Hachimura....
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I would be thrilled with the 9th pick from them this year
Who would you pick at nine?
I'd be interested in Little, Doumbouya, Fernando, Garland or maybe Coby White.
I would love if we could pick up Rui Hachimura....
Good call. I distinctly remember him destroying Australia when he was playing for Japan. Would be an awesome replacement for Morris IMO
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I would be thrilled with the 9th pick from them this year
Who would you pick at nine?
I'd be interested in Little, Doumbouya, Fernando, Garland or maybe Coby White.
I would love if we could pick up Rui Hachimura....
Good call. I distinctly remember him destroying Australia when he was playing for Japan. Would be an awesome replacement for Morris IMO
He has a little Greek Freak vibe to him....
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I would be thrilled with the 9th pick from them this year
Who would you pick at nine?
I'd be interested in Little, Doumbouya, Fernando, Garland or maybe Coby White.
I would love if we could pick up Rui Hachimura....
pelicans would love him too lol
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I would be thrilled with the 9th pick from them this year
Who would you pick at nine?
I'd be interested in Little, Doumbouya, Fernando, Garland or maybe Coby White.
I would love if we could pick up Rui Hachimura....
pelicans would love him too lol
Definitely has some Freak in his game.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M3vUGUi5lis
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Regardless if the Memphis pick conveys or not, I'd like to see us draft Bol Bol with one of our other 3 first rounders (assuming we keep the picks.)
The upside is literally too high to ignore.
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Tacko fall
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DeAndre Hunter at 9. Beast.
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I think it has more trade value by rolling over to next season, no?
Maybe, maybe not.
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DeAndre Hunter at 9. Beast.
If there is no chance to move up, then this is probably the obvious choice at 9
barring any major draft shakeups as well.
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Draft looks top heavy to me, but most are...
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Draft looks top heavy to me, but most are...
I'm looking at Top 3 being the big impact players, but then again, I was the guy at the beginning of the season who thought that nobody would come out of this draft, so I guess we're in a "shows you what I know" situation.
Mike
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Draft looks top heavy to me, but most are...
I'm looking at Top 3 being the big impact players, but then again, I was the guy at the beginning of the season who thought that nobody would come out of this draft, so I guess we're in a "shows you what I know" situation.
Mike
Yes, Williamson, Morant and Barrett are the unquestionable top 3. The rest are very similar in talent through pick 20 or so.
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DeAndre Hunter at 9. Beast.
If there is no chance to move up, then this is probably the obvious choice at 9
barring any major draft shakeups as well.
I prefer Rui Hachimura over Hunter but he might not be there at 9.
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What are the odds the Griz pick conveys?
Their schedule looks kinda tough.
I will hang up and listen.
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What are the odds the Griz pick conveys?
Their schedule looks kinda tough.
I will hang up and listen.
As been mentioned, Memphis would likely prefer their pick conveys this year. They will be trying to win to secure the 9th worst record while LAL and NOLA are trying to lose. LA's schedule looks tougher than NOLA's. It's possible now, unlike as little as a month ago when I was saying it's probably time to start a 2019-2020 Memphis Season Watch Thread.
The Wiz are also in the running but they're pretty much hopeless.
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What are the odds the Griz pick conveys?
Their schedule looks kinda tough.
I will hang up and listen.
They have some pretty winnable games left @suns, against the mavericks twice (who are doing the hardest tank in the league right now) and warriors on last day of season when they are probably resting everyone.
if they just win those games i think we definitely get the pick cause I can't see Memphis, New Orleans or Dallas keeping pace with that and they would end up in the 9th spot.
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What are the odds the Griz pick conveys?
Their schedule looks kinda tough.
I will hang up and listen.
They have some pretty winnable games left @suns, against the mavericks twice (who are doing the hardest tank in the league right now) and warriors on last day of season when they are probably resting everyone.
if they just win those games i think we definitely get the pick cause I can't see Memphis, New Orleans or Dallas keeping pace with that and they would end up in the 9th spot.
You can't see Memphis keeping up with the Grizzlies? 😋😂😂😂
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What are the odds the Griz pick conveys?
Their schedule looks kinda tough.
I will hang up and listen.
They have some pretty winnable games left @suns, against the mavericks twice (who are doing the hardest tank in the league right now) and warriors on last day of season when they are probably resting everyone.
if they just win those games i think we definitely get the pick cause I can't see Memphis, New Orleans or Dallas keeping pace with that and they would end up in the 9th spot.
You can't see Memphis keeping up with the Grizzlies? 😋😂😂😂
You're right. They left Vancouver quite while ago so I think the people of Memphis have caught up to them by now. ;D
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When I think of Vancouver grizzlies, I think of Cherokee Parks
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When I think of Vancouver grizzlies, I think of Cherokee Parks
It's Shareef Abdur-Rahim for me. He WAS that team. Always liked his game and thought he was ridiculously underrated as a player.
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TP's to greenshooter and celticsday for tracking the grizz through the woods of Tenn this season and giving me hope.
I've always wanted to witness Danny Ainge "with four first round picks in one draft".
He's hunched in the corner of his office....mumbling to himself (gollumesque) the morning of the draft...."I have all da dwaft pix....I have more dwaft pix dan anybody else evah!...Do I twade da dwaft pix? Do I pick da dwaft pix? My pwecious dwaft pix."
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When I think of Vancouver grizzlies, I think of Cherokee Parks
It's Shareef Abdur-Rahim for me. He WAS that team. Always liked his game and thought he was ridiculously underrated as a player.
It is Bryant “Big Country” Reeves for me.
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When I think of Vancouver grizzlies, I think of Cherokee Parks
It's Shareef Abdur-Rahim for me. He WAS that team. Always liked his game and thought he was ridiculously underrated as a player.
It is Bryant “Big Country” Reeves for me.
Same. In that ugly teal jersey.
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Griz beat the Suns tonight.
So now the Griz are just a half game behind the Pels for the #9 pick.
Looks like the Griz are really trying to win every game so that their 2019 pick will go to Boston this year.
Is the #9 pick more valuable than a potential 2020 top 6 protected pick or 2021 unprotected pick?
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You’re asking to valuate something with too many variables and unknown parts.
2021 unprotected is *probably* worth more, especially for us since we’d rather defer the pick with 3 other picks this draft.
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Griz beat the Suns tonight.
So now the Griz are just a half game behind the Pels for the #9 pick.
Looks like the Griz are really trying to win every game so that their 2019 pick will go to Boston this year.
Is the #9 pick more valuable than a potential 2020 top 6 protected pick or 2021 unprotected pick?
Let me look into my crystal ball 8)
Joking aside, getting the 9 pick would be either a great trade chip or would land us a pretty good player. Depending on which mock draft you read, the following talent could be available at no. 9, all of whom sound very intriguing.
-Bruno Fernando
-Jaxson Hayes
-Jarrett Culver
-Rui Hachimura
-Romeo Langford
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Griz beat the Suns tonight.
So now the Griz are just a half game behind the Pels for the #9 pick.
Looks like the Griz are really trying to win every game so that their 2019 pick will go to Boston this year.
Is the #9 pick more valuable than a potential 2020 top 6 protected pick or 2021 unprotected pick?
Let me look into my crystal ball 8)
Joking aside, getting the 9 pick would be either a great trade chip or would land us a pretty good player. Depending on which mock draft you read, the following talent could be available at no. 9, all of whom sound very intriguing.
-Bruno Fernando
-Jaxson Hayes
-Jarrett Culver
-Rui Hachimura
-Romeo Langford
100% the unprotected. Just look how hard it is to acquire a 1st in a deal these days, when they used to be thrown around in trades like footballs just a few years ago (see Larbrd's post on the Jeff Green transactional saga).
The mere possibility that the pick could land top 5, top 3, #1 makes it more valuable no matter what actually happens, and we'd have tons of time to trade it while it still has that potential and thus inherent value.
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Griz beat the Suns tonight.
So now the Griz are just a half game behind the Pels for the #9 pick.
Looks like the Griz are really trying to win every game so that their 2019 pick will go to Boston this year.
Is the #9 pick more valuable than a potential 2020 top 6 protected pick or 2021 unprotected pick?
Let me look into my crystal ball 8)
Joking aside, getting the 9 pick would be either a great trade chip or would land us a pretty good player. Depending on which mock draft you read, the following talent could be available at no. 9, all of whom sound very intriguing.
-Bruno Fernando
-Jaxson Hayes
-Jarrett Culver
-Rui Hachimura
-Romeo Langford
100% the unprotected. Just look how hard it is to acquire a 1st in a deal these days, when they used to be thrown around in trades like footballs just a few years ago (see Larbrd's post on the Jeff Green transactional saga).
The mere possibility that the pick could land top 5, top 3, #1 makes it more valuable no matter what actually happens, and we'd have tons of time to trade it while it still has that potential and thus inherent value.
Very good point, as I could certainly see Memphis becoming an awful team over the next couple seasons.
Especially where if we do end up getting the Memphis pick this summer, we may end up with more picks than Ainge will know what to do with.
I think I just got hung up with the prospects in this year's draft.
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Rui Hachimura
I think the NCAAs hurt his stock, I would rather have Clark over him anyday of the week.
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Griz beat the Suns tonight.
So now the Griz are just a half game behind the Pels for the #9 pick.
Looks like the Griz are really trying to win every game so that their 2019 pick will go to Boston this year.
Is the #9 pick more valuable than a potential 2020 top 6 protected pick or 2021 unprotected pick?
Let me look into my crystal ball 8)
Joking aside, getting the 9 pick would be either a great trade chip or would land us a pretty good player. Depending on which mock draft you read, the following talent could be available at no. 9, all of whom sound very intriguing.
-Bruno Fernando
-Jaxson Hayes
-Jarrett Culver
-Rui Hachimura
-Romeo Langford
100% the unprotected. Just look how hard it is to acquire a 1st in a deal these days, when they used to be thrown around in trades like footballs just a few years ago (see Larbrd's post on the Jeff Green transactional saga).
The mere possibility that the pick could land top 5, top 3, #1 makes it more valuable no matter what actually happens, and we'd have tons of time to trade it while it still has that potential and thus inherent value.
It might or it might not. I mean Boston has seen this first hand. Remember when the Nets picks were just going to be some late 1st's, didn't work out that way, however, remember when Boston was getting a top 5 pick from the Kings, without some lottery luck that isn't happening either. Teams have gotten better about recognizing the uncertainty and valuing that uncertainty accordingly.
For Memphis, having the pick conveys gives them a lot more future flexibility as they can go into full bore rebuilding and not worry about having to give up a pick, so if does convey that is what I'd expect them to do.
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A bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush.
And who ever saw the grizzlies wanting the pick to convey this year? And who ever saw it having a very high chance of happening? Borderline genious
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I do not want the pick to convey this year
For the pick to defer my guess is that we'll need them to go 2 and 4 the rest of the way. The Clippers and Portland should beat the Grizzlies since every game matters as far as seeding in the west. The Grizz probably split with Dallas. The last two games against GSW and DET are toss-ups. GSW may shut down their starters because seeding doesn't really matter all that much to them. Detroit will try to win, but they just aren't good enough to guarantee a win.
In this scenario the Pelicans would also have to manage two wins in their next 5 (LAL, CHA, PHO, SAC, GSW) to be safe.
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Pretty hard to gauge what the chances are of this pick conveying this year. The ping-pong odds have been flattened out significantly in this lottery. It could be that if Memphis finishes with top 6 lottery odds, the pick could still end up pushed out of the top 8 when all is said and done.
I'm thinking that there's a very good chance that this pick conveys this year, which might suck for the Celts considering that they already have 3 picks in the top 22 or so. On the other hand, it may increase it's value if the plan is to use it in a trade this summer.
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Conley out tonight. Think that's five games missed in March... They're trying to win, but not at the expense of JJJ and Conley's health.
Four potential picks... on the bright side, 4x higher chance than normal that C's take your draft binkie if available
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I can understand those that disagree, but I think we are better off getting the number 9 pick this year than having it roll over. Draft night teams fall in love with a player that drops to that range. It is a lot easier sell than “maybe a better pick down the road.” If it is an AD trade giving the pelicans another two lottery picks to go with their own and a stud like Tatum really jumpstarts the rebuild. They can probably get another lottery for holiday and they are basically rebuilt overnight
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I can understand those that disagree, but I think we are better off getting the number 9 pick this year than having it roll over. Draft night teams fall in love with a player that drops to that range. It is a lot easier sell than “maybe a better pick down the road.” If it is an AD trade giving the pelicans another two lottery picks to go with their own and a stud like Tatum really jumpstarts the rebuild. They can probably get another lottery for holiday and they are basically rebuilt overnight
100% agree with you. The #9 pick has great value either as the pick itself or in trade. And I believe that the value of a #9 pick this year is higher than an at best #7 next year (when in all likelihood it won't be conveyed at all), and a completely unknown pick in 2020-21.
I believe that GMs will view the possible unprotected '20-'21 pick as one that could convey in the top 5 but could also be a high-lottery or non-lottery pick. In other words, Memphis could be horrible in 2020-21, but maybe not. #9 is a bird in hand.
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I’d rather the pick convey this year. Cs are likely going to lose Morris, Rozier, and Theis this offseason. They will need young talented players to groom to replace those guys. Also, nothing is guaranteed with picks (aka just like SAC supposed to be a possible top 3 pick). NBA landscape changes quickly imo if you have solid decision makers. Not convinced Memphis is going to be too 5 lottery bad in 2 years.
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Griz beat the Suns tonight.
So now the Griz are just a half game behind the Pels for the #9 pick.
Looks like the Griz are really trying to win every game so that their 2019 pick will go to Boston this year.
Is the #9 pick more valuable than a potential 2020 top 6 protected pick or 2021 unprotected pick?
Let me look into my crystal ball 8)
Joking aside, getting the 9 pick would be either a great trade chip or would land us a pretty good player. Depending on which mock draft you read, the following talent could be available at no. 9, all of whom sound very intriguing.
-Bruno Fernando
-Jaxson Hayes
-Jarrett Culver
-Rui Hachimura
-Romeo Langford
100% the unprotected. Just look how hard it is to acquire a 1st in a deal these days, when they used to be thrown around in trades like footballs just a few years ago (see Larbrd's post on the Jeff Green transactional saga).
The mere possibility that the pick could land top 5, top 3, #1 makes it more valuable no matter what actually happens, and we'd have tons of time to trade it while it still has that potential and thus inherent value.
It might or it might not. I mean Boston has seen this first hand. Remember when the Nets picks were just going to be some late 1st's, didn't work out that way, however, remember when Boston was getting a top 5 pick from the Kings, without some lottery luck that isn't happening either. Teams have gotten better about recognizing the uncertainty and valuing that uncertainty accordingly.
For Memphis, having the pick conveys gives them a lot more future flexibility as they can go into full bore rebuilding and not worry about having to give up a pick, so if does convey that is what I'd expect them to do.
You’ll have to save that argument for someone else, I wanted to trade the sacto pick + Rozier + Morris this summer (specifically for Bulls pick / Wendell Carter cuz I didn’t think we could get Jaren Jackson Jr) and posted it on this site dozens of times. Go find it.
That’s why you deal the pick then, when it has the allure of #1 and is worth a ton more. Do you invest? This is asset management 101.
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I can understand those that disagree, but I think we are better off getting the number 9 pick this year than having it roll over. Draft night teams fall in love with a player that drops to that range. It is a lot easier sell than “maybe a better pick down the road.” If it is an AD trade giving the pelicans another two lottery picks to go with their own and a stud like Tatum really jumpstarts the rebuild. They can probably get another lottery for holiday and they are basically rebuilt overnight
100% agree with you. The #9 pick has great value either as the pick itself or in trade. And I believe that the value of a #9 pick this year is higher than an at best #7 next year (when in all likelihood it won't be conveyed at all), and a completely unknown pick in 2020-21.
I believe that GMs will view the possible unprotected '20-'21 pick as one that could convey in the top 5 but could also be a high-lottery or non-lottery pick. In other words, Memphis could be horrible in 2020-21, but maybe not. #9 is a bird in hand.
With lottery picks GMs think upside, not bird in hand. That’s why it’s so hard to deal for a top 5 pick without another, but not nearly as hard to acquire a top 5 pick that panned out even starting a year later. It’s like a car losing 1/3 of its value after its driven off the lot. You just have to flip the upside asset at the right time. DA can/would.
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washington beats denver tonight to go one game ahead of memphis in wins
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I can understand those that disagree, but I think we are better off getting the number 9 pick this year than having it roll over. Draft night teams fall in love with a player that drops to that range. It is a lot easier sell than “maybe a better pick down the road.” If it is an AD trade giving the pelicans another two lottery picks to go with their own and a stud like Tatum really jumpstarts the rebuild. They can probably get another lottery for holiday and they are basically rebuilt overnight
you make some good points and i’d like to think so as well (especially the nights memphis wins) but for what it’s worth the C’s want the pick not to convey this year
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Valanciunas just turned his ankle pretty bad, doubt he'll be back this season
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Valanciunas just turned his ankle pretty bad, doubt he'll be back this season
Dang. Sucks for him. He'd been killing it for them. Hopefully it doesn't hurt him long term, but I also hope that if the pick doesn't convey this draft then he can put up empty numbers for them and still make them lose ;D
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Griz beat the Suns tonight.
So now the Griz are just a half game behind the Pels for the #9 pick.
Looks like the Griz are really trying to win every game so that their 2019 pick will go to Boston this year.
Is the #9 pick more valuable than a potential 2020 top 6 protected pick or 2021 unprotected pick?
Let me look into my crystal ball 8)
Joking aside, getting the 9 pick would be either a great trade chip or would land us a pretty good player. Depending on which mock draft you read, the following talent could be available at no. 9, all of whom sound very intriguing.
-Bruno Fernando
-Jaxson Hayes
-Jarrett Culver
-Rui Hachimura
-Romeo Langford
100% the unprotected. Just look how hard it is to acquire a 1st in a deal these days, when they used to be thrown around in trades like footballs just a few years ago (see Larbrd's post on the Jeff Green transactional saga).
The mere possibility that the pick could land top 5, top 3, #1 makes it more valuable no matter what actually happens, and we'd have tons of time to trade it while it still has that potential and thus inherent value.
It might or it might not. I mean Boston has seen this first hand. Remember when the Nets picks were just going to be some late 1st's, didn't work out that way, however, remember when Boston was getting a top 5 pick from the Kings, without some lottery luck that isn't happening either. Teams have gotten better about recognizing the uncertainty and valuing that uncertainty accordingly.
For Memphis, having the pick conveys gives them a lot more future flexibility as they can go into full bore rebuilding and not worry about having to give up a pick, so if does convey that is what I'd expect them to do.
You’ll have to save that argument for someone else, I wanted to trade the sacto pick + Rozier + Morris this summer (specifically for Bulls pick / Wendell Carter cuz I didn’t think we could get Jaren Jackson Jr) and posted it on this site dozens of times. Go find it.
That’s why you deal the pick then, when it has the allure of #1 and is worth a ton more. Do you invest? This is asset management 101.
It is only a bigger asset if people think it will be a bigger asset. My point was, time and time again we are seeing picks not end up anywhere near where people thought they would. That uncertainty makes the value a lot less then it might ultimately end up.
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Bummer about JV getting hurt. His play had really given me hope the pick would convey this year.
The pick conveying this year will make it more valuable than if it remains an unknown asset, which is important if Ainge is trying to trade for Davis this summer.
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Griz beat the Suns tonight.
So now the Griz are just a half game behind the Pels for the #9 pick.
Looks like the Griz are really trying to win every game so that their 2019 pick will go to Boston this year.
Is the #9 pick more valuable than a potential 2020 top 6 protected pick or 2021 unprotected pick?
Let me look into my crystal ball 8)
Joking aside, getting the 9 pick would be either a great trade chip or would land us a pretty good player. Depending on which mock draft you read, the following talent could be available at no. 9, all of whom sound very intriguing.
-Bruno Fernando
-Jaxson Hayes
-Jarrett Culver
-Rui Hachimura
-Romeo Langford
100% the unprotected. Just look how hard it is to acquire a 1st in a deal these days, when they used to be thrown around in trades like footballs just a few years ago (see Larbrd's post on the Jeff Green transactional saga).
The mere possibility that the pick could land top 5, top 3, #1 makes it more valuable no matter what actually happens, and we'd have tons of time to trade it while it still has that potential and thus inherent value.
It might or it might not. I mean Boston has seen this first hand. Remember when the Nets picks were just going to be some late 1st's, didn't work out that way, however, remember when Boston was getting a top 5 pick from the Kings, without some lottery luck that isn't happening either. Teams have gotten better about recognizing the uncertainty and valuing that uncertainty accordingly.
For Memphis, having the pick conveys gives them a lot more future flexibility as they can go into full bore rebuilding and not worry about having to give up a pick, so if does convey that is what I'd expect them to do.
You’ll have to save that argument for someone else, I wanted to trade the sacto pick + Rozier + Morris this summer (specifically for Bulls pick / Wendell Carter cuz I didn’t think we could get Jaren Jackson Jr) and posted it on this site dozens of times. Go find it.
That’s why you deal the pick then, when it has the allure of #1 and is worth a ton more. Do you invest? This is asset management 101.
It is only a bigger asset if people think it will be a bigger asset. My point was, time and time again we are seeing picks not end up anywhere near where people thought they would. That uncertainty makes the value a lot less then it might ultimately end up.
Your point is 100% correct, I agree, but I think league transaction trends show that GMs are pie in the sky when it comes to draft picks.
The allure of possibly getting a top 3 pick without paying the true cost of a top 3 pick (which basically no one can afford) is too great.
You don’t agree?
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This year, next or the year after... We got this pick for Jeff Green. Found money.
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Can't remember just how we got this pick or LAC's either
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Can't remember just how we got this pick or LAC's either
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Can't remember just how we got this pick or LAC's either
This one was for Jeff Green.
The other was for a couple of second rounders. Memphis gave us the pick they got from LAC for Jeff Green.
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Griz beat the Suns tonight.
So now the Griz are just a half game behind the Pels for the #9 pick.
Looks like the Griz are really trying to win every game so that their 2019 pick will go to Boston this year.
Is the #9 pick more valuable than a potential 2020 top 6 protected pick or 2021 unprotected pick?
Let me look into my crystal ball 8)
Joking aside, getting the 9 pick would be either a great trade chip or would land us a pretty good player. Depending on which mock draft you read, the following talent could be available at no. 9, all of whom sound very intriguing.
-Bruno Fernando
-Jaxson Hayes
-Jarrett Culver
-Rui Hachimura
-Romeo Langford
100% the unprotected. Just look how hard it is to acquire a 1st in a deal these days, when they used to be thrown around in trades like footballs just a few years ago (see Larbrd's post on the Jeff Green transactional saga).
The mere possibility that the pick could land top 5, top 3, #1 makes it more valuable no matter what actually happens, and we'd have tons of time to trade it while it still has that potential and thus inherent value.
It might or it might not. I mean Boston has seen this first hand. Remember when the Nets picks were just going to be some late 1st's, didn't work out that way, however, remember when Boston was getting a top 5 pick from the Kings, without some lottery luck that isn't happening either. Teams have gotten better about recognizing the uncertainty and valuing that uncertainty accordingly.
For Memphis, having the pick conveys gives them a lot more future flexibility as they can go into full bore rebuilding and not worry about having to give up a pick, so if does convey that is what I'd expect them to do.
You’ll have to save that argument for someone else, I wanted to trade the sacto pick + Rozier + Morris this summer (specifically for Bulls pick / Wendell Carter cuz I didn’t think we could get Jaren Jackson Jr) and posted it on this site dozens of times. Go find it.
That’s why you deal the pick then, when it has the allure of #1 and is worth a ton more. Do you invest? This is asset management 101.
It is only a bigger asset if people think it will be a bigger asset. My point was, time and time again we are seeing picks not end up anywhere near where people thought they would. That uncertainty makes the value a lot less then it might ultimately end up.
Your point is 100% correct, I agree, but I think league transaction trends show that GMs are pie in the sky when it comes to draft picks.
The allure of possibly getting a top 3 pick without paying the true cost of a top 3 pick (which basically no one can afford) is too great.
You don’t agree?
I agree with you, particularly if no one floats their boat at the 9 pick in this year's draft. The possibility of an unprotected #1 pick from a franchise that is rebuilding has more value to most GM's.
-
Griz beat the Suns tonight.
So now the Griz are just a half game behind the Pels for the #9 pick.
Looks like the Griz are really trying to win every game so that their 2019 pick will go to Boston this year.
Is the #9 pick more valuable than a potential 2020 top 6 protected pick or 2021 unprotected pick?
Let me look into my crystal ball 8)
Joking aside, getting the 9 pick would be either a great trade chip or would land us a pretty good player. Depending on which mock draft you read, the following talent could be available at no. 9, all of whom sound very intriguing.
-Bruno Fernando
-Jaxson Hayes
-Jarrett Culver
-Rui Hachimura
-Romeo Langford
100% the unprotected. Just look how hard it is to acquire a 1st in a deal these days, when they used to be thrown around in trades like footballs just a few years ago (see Larbrd's post on the Jeff Green transactional saga).
The mere possibility that the pick could land top 5, top 3, #1 makes it more valuable no matter what actually happens, and we'd have tons of time to trade it while it still has that potential and thus inherent value.
It might or it might not. I mean Boston has seen this first hand. Remember when the Nets picks were just going to be some late 1st's, didn't work out that way, however, remember when Boston was getting a top 5 pick from the Kings, without some lottery luck that isn't happening either. Teams have gotten better about recognizing the uncertainty and valuing that uncertainty accordingly.
For Memphis, having the pick conveys gives them a lot more future flexibility as they can go into full bore rebuilding and not worry about having to give up a pick, so if does convey that is what I'd expect them to do.
You’ll have to save that argument for someone else, I wanted to trade the sacto pick + Rozier + Morris this summer (specifically for Bulls pick / Wendell Carter cuz I didn’t think we could get Jaren Jackson Jr) and posted it on this site dozens of times. Go find it.
That’s why you deal the pick then, when it has the allure of #1 and is worth a ton more. Do you invest? This is asset management 101.
It is only a bigger asset if people think it will be a bigger asset. My point was, time and time again we are seeing picks not end up anywhere near where people thought they would. That uncertainty makes the value a lot less then it might ultimately end up.
Your point is 100% correct, I agree, but I think league transaction trends show that GMs are pie in the sky when it comes to draft picks.
The allure of possibly getting a top 3 pick without paying the true cost of a top 3 pick (which basically no one can afford) is too great.
You don’t agree?
Current picks with its draft position being known will almost always have more value than a future pick. The NFL has been showing this to be the case for years and years. Obviously I'm not talking about an end of the 1st round pick, but a pick in the top 10, even 9 or 10, I'd say has more value than a potentially higher pick 2 years in the future. The unknown in who will be in the future draft alone decreases the value of a pick significantly, as does the potential draft position, the delaying of the player for 2 years, etc. If you could guarantee a top 3 pick in 2021, then sure that would have more value than 9 this year, but you can't guarantee a future draft position. heck even if Memphis is the worst team in the league leading up to the 2021 draft, they might end up with the 5th pick with the new lottery rules.
-
Griz beat the Suns tonight.
So now the Griz are just a half game behind the Pels for the #9 pick.
Looks like the Griz are really trying to win every game so that their 2019 pick will go to Boston this year.
Is the #9 pick more valuable than a potential 2020 top 6 protected pick or 2021 unprotected pick?
Let me look into my crystal ball 8)
Joking aside, getting the 9 pick would be either a great trade chip or would land us a pretty good player. Depending on which mock draft you read, the following talent could be available at no. 9, all of whom sound very intriguing.
-Bruno Fernando
-Jaxson Hayes
-Jarrett Culver
-Rui Hachimura
-Romeo Langford
100% the unprotected. Just look how hard it is to acquire a 1st in a deal these days, when they used to be thrown around in trades like footballs just a few years ago (see Larbrd's post on the Jeff Green transactional saga).
The mere possibility that the pick could land top 5, top 3, #1 makes it more valuable no matter what actually happens, and we'd have tons of time to trade it while it still has that potential and thus inherent value.
It might or it might not. I mean Boston has seen this first hand. Remember when the Nets picks were just going to be some late 1st's, didn't work out that way, however, remember when Boston was getting a top 5 pick from the Kings, without some lottery luck that isn't happening either. Teams have gotten better about recognizing the uncertainty and valuing that uncertainty accordingly.
For Memphis, having the pick conveys gives them a lot more future flexibility as they can go into full bore rebuilding and not worry about having to give up a pick, so if does convey that is what I'd expect them to do.
You’ll have to save that argument for someone else, I wanted to trade the sacto pick + Rozier + Morris this summer (specifically for Bulls pick / Wendell Carter cuz I didn’t think we could get Jaren Jackson Jr) and posted it on this site dozens of times. Go find it.
That’s why you deal the pick then, when it has the allure of #1 and is worth a ton more. Do you invest? This is asset management 101.
It is only a bigger asset if people think it will be a bigger asset. My point was, time and time again we are seeing picks not end up anywhere near where people thought they would. That uncertainty makes the value a lot less then it might ultimately end up.
Your point is 100% correct, I agree, but I think league transaction trends show that GMs are pie in the sky when it comes to draft picks.
The allure of possibly getting a top 3 pick without paying the true cost of a top 3 pick (which basically no one can afford) is too great.
You don’t agree?
Current picks with its draft position being known will almost always have more value than a future pick. The NFL has been showing this to be the case for years and years. Obviously I'm not talking about an end of the 1st round pick, but a pick in the top 10, even 9 or 10, I'd say has more value than a potentially higher pick 2 years in the future. The unknown in who will be in the future draft alone decreases the value of a pick significantly, as does the potential draft position, the delaying of the player for 2 years, etc. If you could guarantee a top 3 pick in 2021, then sure that would have more value than 9 this year, but you can't guarantee a future draft position. heck even if Memphis is the worst team in the league leading up to the 2021 draft, they might end up with the 5th pick with the new lottery rules.
Ya I disagree pretty strongly. So does Memphis, thats why they're fighting so hard to get the pick to convey. Sure, there's always some chance the pick ends up worse than you would like. But in a league where upside is King top 5 type talent is so much more value then a pick around 9-10 that GM's will bet on that upside, because even if the chance is relatively small the pay off is huge. Its the same reason why you almost never see people trade u from mid lottery to top 5. n top of that argent its pretty clear the direction Memphis is going right now, they are getting younger, getting worse and likely to see Mike Conley either eave or take a step back in the next year as he ages. They are in the Western conference where they simply arent getting into the playoffs the next two years. Best ase, top 5 pick. Worst case, 12-14 in two years. Given that lack of high end talent and depth in this draft at the 9-12 spots there's really no downside here.
-
Griz beat the Suns tonight.
So now the Griz are just a half game behind the Pels for the #9 pick.
Looks like the Griz are really trying to win every game so that their 2019 pick will go to Boston this year.
Is the #9 pick more valuable than a potential 2020 top 6 protected pick or 2021 unprotected pick?
Let me look into my crystal ball 8)
Joking aside, getting the 9 pick would be either a great trade chip or would land us a pretty good player. Depending on which mock draft you read, the following talent could be available at no. 9, all of whom sound very intriguing.
-Bruno Fernando
-Jaxson Hayes
-Jarrett Culver
-Rui Hachimura
-Romeo Langford
100% the unprotected. Just look how hard it is to acquire a 1st in a deal these days, when they used to be thrown around in trades like footballs just a few years ago (see Larbrd's post on the Jeff Green transactional saga).
The mere possibility that the pick could land top 5, top 3, #1 makes it more valuable no matter what actually happens, and we'd have tons of time to trade it while it still has that potential and thus inherent value.
It might or it might not. I mean Boston has seen this first hand. Remember when the Nets picks were just going to be some late 1st's, didn't work out that way, however, remember when Boston was getting a top 5 pick from the Kings, without some lottery luck that isn't happening either. Teams have gotten better about recognizing the uncertainty and valuing that uncertainty accordingly.
For Memphis, having the pick conveys gives them a lot more future flexibility as they can go into full bore rebuilding and not worry about having to give up a pick, so if does convey that is what I'd expect them to do.
You’ll have to save that argument for someone else, I wanted to trade the sacto pick + Rozier + Morris this summer (specifically for Bulls pick / Wendell Carter cuz I didn’t think we could get Jaren Jackson Jr) and posted it on this site dozens of times. Go find it.
That’s why you deal the pick then, when it has the allure of #1 and is worth a ton more. Do you invest? This is asset management 101.
It is only a bigger asset if people think it will be a bigger asset. My point was, time and time again we are seeing picks not end up anywhere near where people thought they would. That uncertainty makes the value a lot less then it might ultimately end up.
Your point is 100% correct, I agree, but I think league transaction trends show that GMs are pie in the sky when it comes to draft picks.
The allure of possibly getting a top 3 pick without paying the true cost of a top 3 pick (which basically no one can afford) is too great.
You don’t agree?
Current picks with its draft position being known will almost always have more value than a future pick. The NFL has been showing this to be the case for years and years. Obviously I'm not talking about an end of the 1st round pick, but a pick in the top 10, even 9 or 10, I'd say has more value than a potentially higher pick 2 years in the future. The unknown in who will be in the future draft alone decreases the value of a pick significantly, as does the potential draft position, the delaying of the player for 2 years, etc. If you could guarantee a top 3 pick in 2021, then sure that would have more value than 9 this year, but you can't guarantee a future draft position. heck even if Memphis is the worst team in the league leading up to the 2021 draft, they might end up with the 5th pick with the new lottery rules.
Ya I disagree pretty strongly. So does Memphis, thats why they're fighting so hard to get the pick to convey. Sure, there's always some chance the pick ends up worse than you would like. But in a league where upside is King top 5 type talent is so much more value then a pick around 9-10 that GM's will bet on that upside, because even if the chance is relatively small the pay off is huge. Its the same reason why you almost never see people trade u from mid lottery to top 5. n top of that argent its pretty clear the direction Memphis is going right now, they are getting younger, getting worse and likely to see Mike Conley either eave or take a step back in the next year as he ages. They are in the Western conference where they simply arent getting into the playoffs the next two years. Best ase, top 5 pick. Worst case, 12-14 in two years. Given that lack of high end talent and depth in this draft at the 9-12 spots there's really no downside here.
Bingo. This seems quite obvious to me in a world where GM's are frequently forced to gamble, and make tough speculative decisions.
-
Griz beat the Suns tonight.
So now the Griz are just a half game behind the Pels for the #9 pick.
Looks like the Griz are really trying to win every game so that their 2019 pick will go to Boston this year.
Is the #9 pick more valuable than a potential 2020 top 6 protected pick or 2021 unprotected pick?
Let me look into my crystal ball 8)
Joking aside, getting the 9 pick would be either a great trade chip or would land us a pretty good player. Depending on which mock draft you read, the following talent could be available at no. 9, all of whom sound very intriguing.
-Bruno Fernando
-Jaxson Hayes
-Jarrett Culver
-Rui Hachimura
-Romeo Langford
100% the unprotected. Just look how hard it is to acquire a 1st in a deal these days, when they used to be thrown around in trades like footballs just a few years ago (see Larbrd's post on the Jeff Green transactional saga).
The mere possibility that the pick could land top 5, top 3, #1 makes it more valuable no matter what actually happens, and we'd have tons of time to trade it while it still has that potential and thus inherent value.
It might or it might not. I mean Boston has seen this first hand. Remember when the Nets picks were just going to be some late 1st's, didn't work out that way, however, remember when Boston was getting a top 5 pick from the Kings, without some lottery luck that isn't happening either. Teams have gotten better about recognizing the uncertainty and valuing that uncertainty accordingly.
For Memphis, having the pick conveys gives them a lot more future flexibility as they can go into full bore rebuilding and not worry about having to give up a pick, so if does convey that is what I'd expect them to do.
You’ll have to save that argument for someone else, I wanted to trade the sacto pick + Rozier + Morris this summer (specifically for Bulls pick / Wendell Carter cuz I didn’t think we could get Jaren Jackson Jr) and posted it on this site dozens of times. Go find it.
That’s why you deal the pick then, when it has the allure of #1 and is worth a ton more. Do you invest? This is asset management 101.
It is only a bigger asset if people think it will be a bigger asset. My point was, time and time again we are seeing picks not end up anywhere near where people thought they would. That uncertainty makes the value a lot less then it might ultimately end up.
Your point is 100% correct, I agree, but I think league transaction trends show that GMs are pie in the sky when it comes to draft picks.
The allure of possibly getting a top 3 pick without paying the true cost of a top 3 pick (which basically no one can afford) is too great.
You don’t agree?
Current picks with its draft position being known will almost always have more value than a future pick. The NFL has been showing this to be the case for years and years. Obviously I'm not talking about an end of the 1st round pick, but a pick in the top 10, even 9 or 10, I'd say has more value than a potentially higher pick 2 years in the future. The unknown in who will be in the future draft alone decreases the value of a pick significantly, as does the potential draft position, the delaying of the player for 2 years, etc. If you could guarantee a top 3 pick in 2021, then sure that would have more value than 9 this year, but you can't guarantee a future draft position. heck even if Memphis is the worst team in the league leading up to the 2021 draft, they might end up with the 5th pick with the new lottery rules.
Ya I disagree pretty strongly. So does Memphis, thats why they're fighting so hard to get the pick to convey. Sure, there's always some chance the pick ends up worse than you would like. But in a league where upside is King top 5 type talent is so much more value then a pick around 9-10 that GM's will bet on that upside, because even if the chance is relatively small the pay off is huge. Its the same reason why you almost never see people trade u from mid lottery to top 5. n top of that argent its pretty clear the direction Memphis is going right now, they are getting younger, getting worse and likely to see Mike Conley either eave or take a step back in the next year as he ages. They are in the Western conference where they simply arent getting into the playoffs the next two years. Best ase, top 5 pick. Worst case, 12-14 in two years. Given that lack of high end talent and depth in this draft at the 9-12 spots there's really no downside here.
The reason Memphis disagrees and wants to have next year's pick is because they have the ability to completely blow up their team this off season. They can control just how bad those future picks are simply by blowing up the team completely.
If the pick doesn't convey this year, there is the chance they don't blow it up and do everything to win to get the pick to convey post pick#6 next year.
Memphis will control where this pick ends up, so of course, they agree next year's pick is more valuable because if they control it and the following year's pick without attachments they can tear this team down to nothing and reap the benefits of a top 5 pick the next two year's.
You have a good argument. I think many GMs see things your way, others Moranis'. But I wouldn't use Memphis as an example they agree with either of you. Memphis has it's own agenda that has nothing to do with the value of future picks versus current picks.
Memphis clearly values getting top five picks in the next two drafts while giving up a #9 pick this year over any other scenario and their actions don't involve agreeing with either of you. They want to give up as little as possible while gaining the ability to start their multi-year tank with fetters on none of their picks they control.
Memphis wants to stack the deck for getting possible #1 picks in 2020 and 2021 by giving up a #9 this year because they can blow it up this offseason. They want multiple #1 picks. All their actions will be based around trying to maximize their two picks in the next 3 years while minimizing the pick they have to give Boston.
-
Griz beat the Suns tonight.
So now the Griz are just a half game behind the Pels for the #9 pick.
Looks like the Griz are really trying to win every game so that their 2019 pick will go to Boston this year.
Is the #9 pick more valuable than a potential 2020 top 6 protected pick or 2021 unprotected pick?
Let me look into my crystal ball 8)
Joking aside, getting the 9 pick would be either a great trade chip or would land us a pretty good player. Depending on which mock draft you read, the following talent could be available at no. 9, all of whom sound very intriguing.
-Bruno Fernando
-Jaxson Hayes
-Jarrett Culver
-Rui Hachimura
-Romeo Langford
100% the unprotected. Just look how hard it is to acquire a 1st in a deal these days, when they used to be thrown around in trades like footballs just a few years ago (see Larbrd's post on the Jeff Green transactional saga).
The mere possibility that the pick could land top 5, top 3, #1 makes it more valuable no matter what actually happens, and we'd have tons of time to trade it while it still has that potential and thus inherent value.
It might or it might not. I mean Boston has seen this first hand. Remember when the Nets picks were just going to be some late 1st's, didn't work out that way, however, remember when Boston was getting a top 5 pick from the Kings, without some lottery luck that isn't happening either. Teams have gotten better about recognizing the uncertainty and valuing that uncertainty accordingly.
For Memphis, having the pick conveys gives them a lot more future flexibility as they can go into full bore rebuilding and not worry about having to give up a pick, so if does convey that is what I'd expect them to do.
You’ll have to save that argument for someone else, I wanted to trade the sacto pick + Rozier + Morris this summer (specifically for Bulls pick / Wendell Carter cuz I didn’t think we could get Jaren Jackson Jr) and posted it on this site dozens of times. Go find it.
That’s why you deal the pick then, when it has the allure of #1 and is worth a ton more. Do you invest? This is asset management 101.
It is only a bigger asset if people think it will be a bigger asset. My point was, time and time again we are seeing picks not end up anywhere near where people thought they would. That uncertainty makes the value a lot less then it might ultimately end up.
Your point is 100% correct, I agree, but I think league transaction trends show that GMs are pie in the sky when it comes to draft picks.
The allure of possibly getting a top 3 pick without paying the true cost of a top 3 pick (which basically no one can afford) is too great.
You don’t agree?
Current picks with its draft position being known will almost always have more value than a future pick. The NFL has been showing this to be the case for years and years. Obviously I'm not talking about an end of the 1st round pick, but a pick in the top 10, even 9 or 10, I'd say has more value than a potentially higher pick 2 years in the future. The unknown in who will be in the future draft alone decreases the value of a pick significantly, as does the potential draft position, the delaying of the player for 2 years, etc. If you could guarantee a top 3 pick in 2021, then sure that would have more value than 9 this year, but you can't guarantee a future draft position. heck even if Memphis is the worst team in the league leading up to the 2021 draft, they might end up with the 5th pick with the new lottery rules.
Ya I disagree pretty strongly. So does Memphis, thats why they're fighting so hard to get the pick to convey. Sure, there's always some chance the pick ends up worse than you would like. But in a league where upside is King top 5 type talent is so much more value then a pick around 9-10 that GM's will bet on that upside, because even if the chance is relatively small the pay off is huge. Its the same reason why you almost never see people trade u from mid lottery to top 5. n top of that argent its pretty clear the direction Memphis is going right now, they are getting younger, getting worse and likely to see Mike Conley either eave or take a step back in the next year as he ages. They are in the Western conference where they simply arent getting into the playoffs the next two years. Best ase, top 5 pick. Worst case, 12-14 in two years. Given that lack of high end talent and depth in this draft at the 9-12 spots there's really no downside here.
The reason Memphis disagrees and wants to have next year's pick is because they have the ability to completely blow up their team this off season. They can control just how bad those future picks are simply by blowing up the team completely.
If the pick doesn't convey this year, there is the chance they don't blow it up and do everything to win to get the pick to convey post pick#6 next year.
Memphis will control where this pick ends up, so of course, they agree next year's pick is more valuable because if they control it and the following year's pick without attachments they can tear this team down to nothing and reap the benefits of a top 5 pick the next two year's.
You have a good argument. I think many GMs see things your way, others Moranis'. But I wouldn't use Memphis as an example they agree with either of you. Memphis has it's own agenda that has nothing to do with the value of future picks versus current picks.
Memphis clearly values getting top five picks in the next two drafts while giving up a #9 pick this year over any other scenario and their actions don't involve agreeing with either of you. They want to give up as little as possible while gaining the ability to start their multi-year tank with fetters on none of their picks they control.
Memphis wants to stack the deck for getting possible #1 picks in 2020 and 2021 by giving up a #9 this year because they can blow it up this offseason. They want multiple #1 picks. All their actions will be based around trying to maximize their two picks in the next 3 years while minimizing the pick they have to give Boston.
TP, well put.
as an aside, C's still prefer this pick to not convey this year, that i know
-
Now there is a scenario that works out great for both teams. Memphis wins the lottery this year or get a top 4 pick. No matter where they land next year, they win the lottery or get a top 4 pick. Then in 2021 the pick is the Celtics and the Celtics hope the Grizzlies suck one more year to win the C's the lotto or a top 4 pick. In 2022 the Grizz are mean and wild again.
Everyone is happy.
-
9th this year is certainly a better bet that 6+th pick next year, but we also have to figure out the "strength" in that area of the draft. What type of player might be available. Then you have to figure out what the roster might look like/ and whether you need the pick or player to complete a trade or replace the roster turnover from a trade. THe pick is not certain to be 6th -10th for sure. Look at the Sacramento pick. No one thought it would be around 14th this time last year. Too many teams tanking for a team with no incentive to tank to be real bad. If the pick is 9th I think they want it this year for the certainty of what it is, versus the possibility it could be significantly worse, but only slightly better.
-
Griz beat the Suns tonight.
So now the Griz are just a half game behind the Pels for the #9 pick.
Looks like the Griz are really trying to win every game so that their 2019 pick will go to Boston this year.
Is the #9 pick more valuable than a potential 2020 top 6 protected pick or 2021 unprotected pick?
Let me look into my crystal ball 8)
Joking aside, getting the 9 pick would be either a great trade chip or would land us a pretty good player. Depending on which mock draft you read, the following talent could be available at no. 9, all of whom sound very intriguing.
-Bruno Fernando
-Jaxson Hayes
-Jarrett Culver
-Rui Hachimura
-Romeo Langford
100% the unprotected. Just look how hard it is to acquire a 1st in a deal these days, when they used to be thrown around in trades like footballs just a few years ago (see Larbrd's post on the Jeff Green transactional saga).
The mere possibility that the pick could land top 5, top 3, #1 makes it more valuable no matter what actually happens, and we'd have tons of time to trade it while it still has that potential and thus inherent value.
It might or it might not. I mean Boston has seen this first hand. Remember when the Nets picks were just going to be some late 1st's, didn't work out that way, however, remember when Boston was getting a top 5 pick from the Kings, without some lottery luck that isn't happening either. Teams have gotten better about recognizing the uncertainty and valuing that uncertainty accordingly.
For Memphis, having the pick conveys gives them a lot more future flexibility as they can go into full bore rebuilding and not worry about having to give up a pick, so if does convey that is what I'd expect them to do.
You’ll have to save that argument for someone else, I wanted to trade the sacto pick + Rozier + Morris this summer (specifically for Bulls pick / Wendell Carter cuz I didn’t think we could get Jaren Jackson Jr) and posted it on this site dozens of times. Go find it.
That’s why you deal the pick then, when it has the allure of #1 and is worth a ton more. Do you invest? This is asset management 101.
It is only a bigger asset if people think it will be a bigger asset. My point was, time and time again we are seeing picks not end up anywhere near where people thought they would. That uncertainty makes the value a lot less then it might ultimately end up.
Your point is 100% correct, I agree, but I think league transaction trends show that GMs are pie in the sky when it comes to draft picks.
The allure of possibly getting a top 3 pick without paying the true cost of a top 3 pick (which basically no one can afford) is too great.
You don’t agree?
Current picks with its draft position being known will almost always have more value than a future pick. The NFL has been showing this to be the case for years and years. Obviously I'm not talking about an end of the 1st round pick, but a pick in the top 10, even 9 or 10, I'd say has more value than a potentially higher pick 2 years in the future. The unknown in who will be in the future draft alone decreases the value of a pick significantly, as does the potential draft position, the delaying of the player for 2 years, etc. If you could guarantee a top 3 pick in 2021, then sure that would have more value than 9 this year, but you can't guarantee a future draft position. heck even if Memphis is the worst team in the league leading up to the 2021 draft, they might end up with the 5th pick with the new lottery rules.
Ya I disagree pretty strongly. So does Memphis, thats why they're fighting so hard to get the pick to convey. Sure, there's always some chance the pick ends up worse than you would like. But in a league where upside is King top 5 type talent is so much more value then a pick around 9-10 that GM's will bet on that upside, because even if the chance is relatively small the pay off is huge. Its the same reason why you almost never see people trade u from mid lottery to top 5. n top of that argent its pretty clear the direction Memphis is going right now, they are getting younger, getting worse and likely to see Mike Conley either eave or take a step back in the next year as he ages. They are in the Western conference where they simply arent getting into the playoffs the next two years. Best ase, top 5 pick. Worst case, 12-14 in two years. Given that lack of high end talent and depth in this draft at the 9-12 spots there's really no downside here.
The reason Memphis disagrees and wants to have next year's pick is because they have the ability to completely blow up their team this off season. They can control just how bad those future picks are simply by blowing up the team completely.
If the pick doesn't convey this year, there is the chance they don't blow it up and do everything to win to get the pick to convey post pick#6 next year.
Memphis will control where this pick ends up, so of course, they agree next year's pick is more valuable because if they control it and the following year's pick without attachments they can tear this team down to nothing and reap the benefits of a top 5 pick the next two year's.
You have a good argument. I think many GMs see things your way, others Moranis'. But I wouldn't use Memphis as an example they agree with either of you. Memphis has it's own agenda that has nothing to do with the value of future picks versus current picks.
Memphis clearly values getting top five picks in the next two drafts while giving up a #9 pick this year over any other scenario and their actions don't involve agreeing with either of you. They want to give up as little as possible while gaining the ability to start their multi-year tank with fetters on none of their picks they control.
Memphis wants to stack the deck for getting possible #1 picks in 2020 and 2021 by giving up a #9 this year because they can blow it up this offseason. They want multiple #1 picks. All their actions will be based around trying to maximize their two picks in the next 3 years while minimizing the pick they have to give Boston.
This exactly. I've made this argument consistently in this thread. The bottom line is the Grizzlies have a lot more options going forward if they control all of their own picks.
-
Griz beat the Suns tonight.
So now the Griz are just a half game behind the Pels for the #9 pick.
Looks like the Griz are really trying to win every game so that their 2019 pick will go to Boston this year.
Is the #9 pick more valuable than a potential 2020 top 6 protected pick or 2021 unprotected pick?
Let me look into my crystal ball 8)
Joking aside, getting the 9 pick would be either a great trade chip or would land us a pretty good player. Depending on which mock draft you read, the following talent could be available at no. 9, all of whom sound very intriguing.
-Bruno Fernando
-Jaxson Hayes
-Jarrett Culver
-Rui Hachimura
-Romeo Langford
100% the unprotected. Just look how hard it is to acquire a 1st in a deal these days, when they used to be thrown around in trades like footballs just a few years ago (see Larbrd's post on the Jeff Green transactional saga).
The mere possibility that the pick could land top 5, top 3, #1 makes it more valuable no matter what actually happens, and we'd have tons of time to trade it while it still has that potential and thus inherent value.
It might or it might not. I mean Boston has seen this first hand. Remember when the Nets picks were just going to be some late 1st's, didn't work out that way, however, remember when Boston was getting a top 5 pick from the Kings, without some lottery luck that isn't happening either. Teams have gotten better about recognizing the uncertainty and valuing that uncertainty accordingly.
For Memphis, having the pick conveys gives them a lot more future flexibility as they can go into full bore rebuilding and not worry about having to give up a pick, so if does convey that is what I'd expect them to do.
You’ll have to save that argument for someone else, I wanted to trade the sacto pick + Rozier + Morris this summer (specifically for Bulls pick / Wendell Carter cuz I didn’t think we could get Jaren Jackson Jr) and posted it on this site dozens of times. Go find it.
That’s why you deal the pick then, when it has the allure of #1 and is worth a ton more. Do you invest? This is asset management 101.
It is only a bigger asset if people think it will be a bigger asset. My point was, time and time again we are seeing picks not end up anywhere near where people thought they would. That uncertainty makes the value a lot less then it might ultimately end up.
Your point is 100% correct, I agree, but I think league transaction trends show that GMs are pie in the sky when it comes to draft picks.
The allure of possibly getting a top 3 pick without paying the true cost of a top 3 pick (which basically no one can afford) is too great.
You don’t agree?
Current picks with its draft position being known will almost always have more value than a future pick. The NFL has been showing this to be the case for years and years. Obviously I'm not talking about an end of the 1st round pick, but a pick in the top 10, even 9 or 10, I'd say has more value than a potentially higher pick 2 years in the future. The unknown in who will be in the future draft alone decreases the value of a pick significantly, as does the potential draft position, the delaying of the player for 2 years, etc. If you could guarantee a top 3 pick in 2021, then sure that would have more value than 9 this year, but you can't guarantee a future draft position. heck even if Memphis is the worst team in the league leading up to the 2021 draft, they might end up with the 5th pick with the new lottery rules.
Ya I disagree pretty strongly. So does Memphis, thats why they're fighting so hard to get the pick to convey. Sure, there's always some chance the pick ends up worse than you would like. But in a league where upside is King top 5 type talent is so much more value then a pick around 9-10 that GM's will bet on that upside, because even if the chance is relatively small the pay off is huge. Its the same reason why you almost never see people trade u from mid lottery to top 5. n top of that argent its pretty clear the direction Memphis is going right now, they are getting younger, getting worse and likely to see Mike Conley either eave or take a step back in the next year as he ages. They are in the Western conference where they simply arent getting into the playoffs the next two years. Best ase, top 5 pick. Worst case, 12-14 in two years. Given that lack of high end talent and depth in this draft at the 9-12 spots there's really no downside here.
The reason Memphis disagrees and wants to have next year's pick is because they have the ability to completely blow up their team this off season. They can control just how bad those future picks are simply by blowing up the team completely.
If the pick doesn't convey this year, there is the chance they don't blow it up and do everything to win to get the pick to convey post pick#6 next year.
Memphis will control where this pick ends up, so of course, they agree next year's pick is more valuable because if they control it and the following year's pick without attachments they can tear this team down to nothing and reap the benefits of a top 5 pick the next two year's.
You have a good argument. I think many GMs see things your way, others Moranis'. But I wouldn't use Memphis as an example they agree with either of you. Memphis has it's own agenda that has nothing to do with the value of future picks versus current picks.
Memphis clearly values getting top five picks in the next two drafts while giving up a #9 pick this year over any other scenario and their actions don't involve agreeing with either of you. They want to give up as little as possible while gaining the ability to start their multi-year tank with fetters on none of their picks they control.
Memphis wants to stack the deck for getting possible #1 picks in 2020 and 2021 by giving up a #9 this year because they can blow it up this offseason. They want multiple #1 picks. All their actions will be based around trying to maximize their two picks in the next 3 years while minimizing the pick they have to give Boston.
This exactly. I've made this argument consistently in this thread. The bottom line is the Grizzlies have a lot more options going forward if they control all of their own picks.
I agree that the grizz are trying to give the pick to control their own tanking, but part of that is also them reading the tea leaves. They have no obvious Avenue to get better, and a few ways to get much worse. That to me slants the value equation in favor of wanting a more lightly protected pick. The fact that the back of this lottery is weak only really rei forces that. To put it simply, worst case is a slightly worse pick in a probably equivalent or better draft, best case is top 5 pick. That's an easy call to me.
-
Griz beat the Suns tonight.
So now the Griz are just a half game behind the Pels for the #9 pick.
Looks like the Griz are really trying to win every game so that their 2019 pick will go to Boston this year.
Is the #9 pick more valuable than a potential 2020 top 6 protected pick or 2021 unprotected pick?
Let me look into my crystal ball 8)
Joking aside, getting the 9 pick would be either a great trade chip or would land us a pretty good player. Depending on which mock draft you read, the following talent could be available at no. 9, all of whom sound very intriguing.
-Bruno Fernando
-Jaxson Hayes
-Jarrett Culver
-Rui Hachimura
-Romeo Langford
100% the unprotected. Just look how hard it is to acquire a 1st in a deal these days, when they used to be thrown around in trades like footballs just a few years ago (see Larbrd's post on the Jeff Green transactional saga).
The mere possibility that the pick could land top 5, top 3, #1 makes it more valuable no matter what actually happens, and we'd have tons of time to trade it while it still has that potential and thus inherent value.
It might or it might not. I mean Boston has seen this first hand. Remember when the Nets picks were just going to be some late 1st's, didn't work out that way, however, remember when Boston was getting a top 5 pick from the Kings, without some lottery luck that isn't happening either. Teams have gotten better about recognizing the uncertainty and valuing that uncertainty accordingly.
For Memphis, having the pick conveys gives them a lot more future flexibility as they can go into full bore rebuilding and not worry about having to give up a pick, so if does convey that is what I'd expect them to do.
You’ll have to save that argument for someone else, I wanted to trade the sacto pick + Rozier + Morris this summer (specifically for Bulls pick / Wendell Carter cuz I didn’t think we could get Jaren Jackson Jr) and posted it on this site dozens of times. Go find it.
That’s why you deal the pick then, when it has the allure of #1 and is worth a ton more. Do you invest? This is asset management 101.
It is only a bigger asset if people think it will be a bigger asset. My point was, time and time again we are seeing picks not end up anywhere near where people thought they would. That uncertainty makes the value a lot less then it might ultimately end up.
Your point is 100% correct, I agree, but I think league transaction trends show that GMs are pie in the sky when it comes to draft picks.
The allure of possibly getting a top 3 pick without paying the true cost of a top 3 pick (which basically no one can afford) is too great.
You don’t agree?
Current picks with its draft position being known will almost always have more value than a future pick. The NFL has been showing this to be the case for years and years. Obviously I'm not talking about an end of the 1st round pick, but a pick in the top 10, even 9 or 10, I'd say has more value than a potentially higher pick 2 years in the future. The unknown in who will be in the future draft alone decreases the value of a pick significantly, as does the potential draft position, the delaying of the player for 2 years, etc. If you could guarantee a top 3 pick in 2021, then sure that would have more value than 9 this year, but you can't guarantee a future draft position. heck even if Memphis is the worst team in the league leading up to the 2021 draft, they might end up with the 5th pick with the new lottery rules.
Ya I disagree pretty strongly. So does Memphis, thats why they're fighting so hard to get the pick to convey. Sure, there's always some chance the pick ends up worse than you would like. But in a league where upside is King top 5 type talent is so much more value then a pick around 9-10 that GM's will bet on that upside, because even if the chance is relatively small the pay off is huge. Its the same reason why you almost never see people trade u from mid lottery to top 5. n top of that argent its pretty clear the direction Memphis is going right now, they are getting younger, getting worse and likely to see Mike Conley either eave or take a step back in the next year as he ages. They are in the Western conference where they simply arent getting into the playoffs the next two years. Best ase, top 5 pick. Worst case, 12-14 in two years. Given that lack of high end talent and depth in this draft at the 9-12 spots there's really no downside here.
The reason Memphis disagrees and wants to have next year's pick is because they have the ability to completely blow up their team this off season. They can control just how bad those future picks are simply by blowing up the team completely.
If the pick doesn't convey this year, there is the chance they don't blow it up and do everything to win to get the pick to convey post pick#6 next year.
Memphis will control where this pick ends up, so of course, they agree next year's pick is more valuable because if they control it and the following year's pick without attachments they can tear this team down to nothing and reap the benefits of a top 5 pick the next two year's.
You have a good argument. I think many GMs see things your way, others Moranis'. But I wouldn't use Memphis as an example they agree with either of you. Memphis has it's own agenda that has nothing to do with the value of future picks versus current picks.
Memphis clearly values getting top five picks in the next two drafts while giving up a #9 pick this year over any other scenario and their actions don't involve agreeing with either of you. They want to give up as little as possible while gaining the ability to start their multi-year tank with fetters on none of their picks they control.
Memphis wants to stack the deck for getting possible #1 picks in 2020 and 2021 by giving up a #9 this year because they can blow it up this offseason. They want multiple #1 picks. All their actions will be based around trying to maximize their two picks in the next 3 years while minimizing the pick they have to give Boston.
This exactly. I've made this argument consistently in this thread. The bottom line is the Grizzlies have a lot more options going forward if they control all of their own picks.
I agree that the grizz are trying to give the pick to control their own tanking, but part of that is also them reading the tea leaves. They have no obvious Avenue to get better, and a few ways to get much worse. That to me slants the value equation in favor of wanting a more lightly protected pick. The fact that the back of this lottery is weak only really rei forces that. To put it simply, worst case is a slightly worse pick in a probably equivalent or better draft, best case is top 5 pick. That's an easy call to me.
They got a lot better after moving on from Gasol. If the pick doesn't transfer, they will get a top 10 pick this year and potentially a top 5 pick next year. They have Conley to trade for value (they would get at least one 1st for him). We've seen 2 teams this year alone basically turn it around in 2 off seasons in the Kings and Nets (there are almost 0 players on either of those team more than 3 seasons). The Nets didn't even have any high picks and still managed to turn it around. That obviously may not happen, but there is enough evidence out there that shows a blue print for not being terrible for very long.
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Yup. I think there has been shown to be enough proof that if you are smart, about 2 seasons of bottoming out should start to make you a team that won't be completely awful that third year. Unless, of course, you decide to Hinkie it and purposely be bad for 4-5 years.
Then again, there is always the chance that the guy running the franchise is a complete knob(like Kahn in Minnesota) and his incompetence happens to make them bad for 5 plus years
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If the Grizz pick lands at #8 and does not convey, could they and the Celtics mutually agree to alter the protections so that is DOES convey and relinquishing the Grizzlies from further commitments?
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If the Grizz pick lands at #8 and does not convey, could they and the Celtics mutually agree to alter the protections so that is DOES convey and relinquishing the Grizzlies from further commitments?
I don't think so, but the Grizz and the Celts could probably do a trade around the time of the draft where the Grizz surrender that pick in exchange for some heavily protected Celtics pick that will never convey along with whatever remaining trade rights the Celts have associated with the original trade. That would effectively do what you're suggesting.
-
Griz beat the Suns tonight.
So now the Griz are just a half game behind the Pels for the #9 pick.
Looks like the Griz are really trying to win every game so that their 2019 pick will go to Boston this year.
Is the #9 pick more valuable than a potential 2020 top 6 protected pick or 2021 unprotected pick?
Let me look into my crystal ball 8)
Joking aside, getting the 9 pick would be either a great trade chip or would land us a pretty good player. Depending on which mock draft you read, the following talent could be available at no. 9, all of whom sound very intriguing.
-Bruno Fernando
-Jaxson Hayes
-Jarrett Culver
-Rui Hachimura
-Romeo Langford
100% the unprotected. Just look how hard it is to acquire a 1st in a deal these days, when they used to be thrown around in trades like footballs just a few years ago (see Larbrd's post on the Jeff Green transactional saga).
The mere possibility that the pick could land top 5, top 3, #1 makes it more valuable no matter what actually happens, and we'd have tons of time to trade it while it still has that potential and thus inherent value.
It might or it might not. I mean Boston has seen this first hand. Remember when the Nets picks were just going to be some late 1st's, didn't work out that way, however, remember when Boston was getting a top 5 pick from the Kings, without some lottery luck that isn't happening either. Teams have gotten better about recognizing the uncertainty and valuing that uncertainty accordingly.
For Memphis, having the pick conveys gives them a lot more future flexibility as they can go into full bore rebuilding and not worry about having to give up a pick, so if does convey that is what I'd expect them to do.
You’ll have to save that argument for someone else, I wanted to trade the sacto pick + Rozier + Morris this summer (specifically for Bulls pick / Wendell Carter cuz I didn’t think we could get Jaren Jackson Jr) and posted it on this site dozens of times. Go find it.
That’s why you deal the pick then, when it has the allure of #1 and is worth a ton more. Do you invest? This is asset management 101.
It is only a bigger asset if people think it will be a bigger asset. My point was, time and time again we are seeing picks not end up anywhere near where people thought they would. That uncertainty makes the value a lot less then it might ultimately end up.
Your point is 100% correct, I agree, but I think league transaction trends show that GMs are pie in the sky when it comes to draft picks.
The allure of possibly getting a top 3 pick without paying the true cost of a top 3 pick (which basically no one can afford) is too great.
You don’t agree?
Current picks with its draft position being known will almost always have more value than a future pick. The NFL has been showing this to be the case for years and years. Obviously I'm not talking about an end of the 1st round pick, but a pick in the top 10, even 9 or 10, I'd say has more value than a potentially higher pick 2 years in the future. The unknown in who will be in the future draft alone decreases the value of a pick significantly, as does the potential draft position, the delaying of the player for 2 years, etc. If you could guarantee a top 3 pick in 2021, then sure that would have more value than 9 this year, but you can't guarantee a future draft position. heck even if Memphis is the worst team in the league leading up to the 2021 draft, they might end up with the 5th pick with the new lottery rules.
Ya I disagree pretty strongly. So does Memphis, thats why they're fighting so hard to get the pick to convey. Sure, there's always some chance the pick ends up worse than you would like. But in a league where upside is King top 5 type talent is so much more value then a pick around 9-10 that GM's will bet on that upside, because even if the chance is relatively small the pay off is huge. Its the same reason why you almost never see people trade u from mid lottery to top 5. n top of that argent its pretty clear the direction Memphis is going right now, they are getting younger, getting worse and likely to see Mike Conley either eave or take a step back in the next year as he ages. They are in the Western conference where they simply arent getting into the playoffs the next two years. Best ase, top 5 pick. Worst case, 12-14 in two years. Given that lack of high end talent and depth in this draft at the 9-12 spots there's really no downside here.
The reason Memphis disagrees and wants to have next year's pick is because they have the ability to completely blow up their team this off season. They can control just how bad those future picks are simply by blowing up the team completely.
If the pick doesn't convey this year, there is the chance they don't blow it up and do everything to win to get the pick to convey post pick#6 next year.
Memphis will control where this pick ends up, so of course, they agree next year's pick is more valuable because if they control it and the following year's pick without attachments they can tear this team down to nothing and reap the benefits of a top 5 pick the next two year's.
You have a good argument. I think many GMs see things your way, others Moranis'. But I wouldn't use Memphis as an example they agree with either of you. Memphis has it's own agenda that has nothing to do with the value of future picks versus current picks.
Memphis clearly values getting top five picks in the next two drafts while giving up a #9 pick this year over any other scenario and their actions don't involve agreeing with either of you. They want to give up as little as possible while gaining the ability to start their multi-year tank with fetters on none of their picks they control.
Memphis wants to stack the deck for getting possible #1 picks in 2020 and 2021 by giving up a #9 this year because they can blow it up this offseason. They want multiple #1 picks. All their actions will be based around trying to maximize their two picks in the next 3 years while minimizing the pick they have to give Boston.
This exactly. I've made this argument consistently in this thread. The bottom line is the Grizzlies have a lot more options going forward if they control all of their own picks.
I agree that the grizz are trying to give the pick to control their own tanking, but part of that is also them reading the tea leaves. They have no obvious Avenue to get better, and a few ways to get much worse. That to me slants the value equation in favor of wanting a more lightly protected pick. The fact that the back of this lottery is weak only really rei forces that. To put it simply, worst case is a slightly worse pick in a probably equivalent or better draft, best case is top 5 pick. That's an easy call to me.
They got a lot better after moving on from Gasol. If the pick doesn't transfer, they will get a top 10 pick this year and potentially a top 5 pick next year. They have Conley to trade for value (they would get at least one 1st for him). We've seen 2 teams this year alone basically turn it around in 2 off seasons in the Kings and Nets (there are almost 0 players on either of those team more than 3 seasons). The Nets didn't even have any high picks and still managed to turn it around. That obviously may not happen, but there is enough evidence out there that shows a blue print for not being terrible for very long.
Again tho, if the kings are the absolutely worst case scenario then that's not bad. Getting the 13-14th pick in the draft is not drastically different then the 9th-10th pick especially in a draft considered pretty weekend after the top 3. The upside of a top 5 pick in my opinion clearly out ways the potential loss in value. And for every nets team that turns it around in two years there is Phoenix, Orlando, Clevland etc that spends half a decade or more in the lottery. Even the Kings who you point out sucked for a decade before they figured it out. Trading Conley would actually be awesome. They would get value, but nothing that will help them as much or as soon as Conley in all likelihood.
And too be honest I think both us, if we used the pick, or the NOP if its trade bait would rather the pick roll over for practical reasons. We are for sure getting 3 picks already, if we have to make them that's 3 rookies we already can't really play. If we trade it NOP has the same.priblems, even rebuilding teams don't want that many young guys all at once. Hard to play them all. And rebuilding teams almost always chase upside. Hence the desire for the puck to roll over.
-
Griz beat the Suns tonight.
So now the Griz are just a half game behind the Pels for the #9 pick.
Looks like the Griz are really trying to win every game so that their 2019 pick will go to Boston this year.
Is the #9 pick more valuable than a potential 2020 top 6 protected pick or 2021 unprotected pick?
Let me look into my crystal ball 8)
Joking aside, getting the 9 pick would be either a great trade chip or would land us a pretty good player. Depending on which mock draft you read, the following talent could be available at no. 9, all of whom sound very intriguing.
-Bruno Fernando
-Jaxson Hayes
-Jarrett Culver
-Rui Hachimura
-Romeo Langford
100% the unprotected. Just look how hard it is to acquire a 1st in a deal these days, when they used to be thrown around in trades like footballs just a few years ago (see Larbrd's post on the Jeff Green transactional saga).
The mere possibility that the pick could land top 5, top 3, #1 makes it more valuable no matter what actually happens, and we'd have tons of time to trade it while it still has that potential and thus inherent value.
It might or it might not. I mean Boston has seen this first hand. Remember when the Nets picks were just going to be some late 1st's, didn't work out that way, however, remember when Boston was getting a top 5 pick from the Kings, without some lottery luck that isn't happening either. Teams have gotten better about recognizing the uncertainty and valuing that uncertainty accordingly.
For Memphis, having the pick conveys gives them a lot more future flexibility as they can go into full bore rebuilding and not worry about having to give up a pick, so if does convey that is what I'd expect them to do.
You’ll have to save that argument for someone else, I wanted to trade the sacto pick + Rozier + Morris this summer (specifically for Bulls pick / Wendell Carter cuz I didn’t think we could get Jaren Jackson Jr) and posted it on this site dozens of times. Go find it.
That’s why you deal the pick then, when it has the allure of #1 and is worth a ton more. Do you invest? This is asset management 101.
It is only a bigger asset if people think it will be a bigger asset. My point was, time and time again we are seeing picks not end up anywhere near where people thought they would. That uncertainty makes the value a lot less then it might ultimately end up.
Your point is 100% correct, I agree, but I think league transaction trends show that GMs are pie in the sky when it comes to draft picks.
The allure of possibly getting a top 3 pick without paying the true cost of a top 3 pick (which basically no one can afford) is too great.
You don’t agree?
Current picks with its draft position being known will almost always have more value than a future pick. The NFL has been showing this to be the case for years and years. Obviously I'm not talking about an end of the 1st round pick, but a pick in the top 10, even 9 or 10, I'd say has more value than a potentially higher pick 2 years in the future. The unknown in who will be in the future draft alone decreases the value of a pick significantly, as does the potential draft position, the delaying of the player for 2 years, etc. If you could guarantee a top 3 pick in 2021, then sure that would have more value than 9 this year, but you can't guarantee a future draft position. heck even if Memphis is the worst team in the league leading up to the 2021 draft, they might end up with the 5th pick with the new lottery rules.
Ya I disagree pretty strongly. So does Memphis, thats why they're fighting so hard to get the pick to convey. Sure, there's always some chance the pick ends up worse than you would like. But in a league where upside is King top 5 type talent is so much more value then a pick around 9-10 that GM's will bet on that upside, because even if the chance is relatively small the pay off is huge. Its the same reason why you almost never see people trade u from mid lottery to top 5. n top of that argent its pretty clear the direction Memphis is going right now, they are getting younger, getting worse and likely to see Mike Conley either eave or take a step back in the next year as he ages. They are in the Western conference where they simply arent getting into the playoffs the next two years. Best ase, top 5 pick. Worst case, 12-14 in two years. Given that lack of high end talent and depth in this draft at the 9-12 spots there's really no downside here.
The reason Memphis disagrees and wants to have next year's pick is because they have the ability to completely blow up their team this off season. They can control just how bad those future picks are simply by blowing up the team completely.
If the pick doesn't convey this year, there is the chance they don't blow it up and do everything to win to get the pick to convey post pick#6 next year.
Memphis will control where this pick ends up, so of course, they agree next year's pick is more valuable because if they control it and the following year's pick without attachments they can tear this team down to nothing and reap the benefits of a top 5 pick the next two year's.
You have a good argument. I think many GMs see things your way, others Moranis'. But I wouldn't use Memphis as an example they agree with either of you. Memphis has it's own agenda that has nothing to do with the value of future picks versus current picks.
Memphis clearly values getting top five picks in the next two drafts while giving up a #9 pick this year over any other scenario and their actions don't involve agreeing with either of you. They want to give up as little as possible while gaining the ability to start their multi-year tank with fetters on none of their picks they control.
Memphis wants to stack the deck for getting possible #1 picks in 2020 and 2021 by giving up a #9 this year because they can blow it up this offseason. They want multiple #1 picks. All their actions will be based around trying to maximize their two picks in the next 3 years while minimizing the pick they have to give Boston.
This exactly. I've made this argument consistently in this thread. The bottom line is the Grizzlies have a lot more options going forward if they control all of their own picks.
I agree that the grizz are trying to give the pick to control their own tanking, but part of that is also them reading the tea leaves. They have no obvious Avenue to get better, and a few ways to get much worse. That to me slants the value equation in favor of wanting a more lightly protected pick. The fact that the back of this lottery is weak only really rei forces that. To put it simply, worst case is a slightly worse pick in a probably equivalent or better draft, best case is top 5 pick. That's an easy call to me.
They got a lot better after moving on from Gasol. If the pick doesn't transfer, they will get a top 10 pick this year and potentially a top 5 pick next year. They have Conley to trade for value (they would get at least one 1st for him). We've seen 2 teams this year alone basically turn it around in 2 off seasons in the Kings and Nets (there are almost 0 players on either of those team more than 3 seasons). The Nets didn't even have any high picks and still managed to turn it around. That obviously may not happen, but there is enough evidence out there that shows a blue print for not being terrible for very long.
Again tho, if the kings are the absolutely worst case scenario then that's not bad. Getting the 13-14th pick in the draft is not drastically different then the 9th-10th pick especially in a draft considered pretty weekend after the top 3. The upside of a top 5 pick in my opinion clearly out ways the potential loss in value. And for every nets team that turns it around in two years there is Phoenix, Orlando, Clevland etc that spends half a decade or more in the lottery. Even the Kings who you point out sucked for a decade before they figured it out. Trading Conley would actually be awesome. They would get value, but nothing that will help them as much or as soon as Conley in all likelihood.
And too be honest I think both us, if we used the pick, or the NOP if its trade bait would rather the pick roll over for practical reasons. We are for sure getting 3 picks already, if we have to make them that's 3 rookies we already can't really play. If we trade it NOP has the same.priblems, even rebuilding teams don't want that many young guys all at once. Hard to play them all. And rebuilding teams almost always chase upside. Hence the desire for the puck to roll over.
I can guarantee you the Pelicans would value the pick more if they knew it was conveying at #9 in the upcoming than they would if it rolls over and remains an unknown quantity.
Savvy GM's just don't look at future picks in the way you think they do.
-
Griz beat the Suns tonight.
So now the Griz are just a half game behind the Pels for the #9 pick.
Looks like the Griz are really trying to win every game so that their 2019 pick will go to Boston this year.
Is the #9 pick more valuable than a potential 2020 top 6 protected pick or 2021 unprotected pick?
Let me look into my crystal ball 8)
Joking aside, getting the 9 pick would be either a great trade chip or would land us a pretty good player. Depending on which mock draft you read, the following talent could be available at no. 9, all of whom sound very intriguing.
-Bruno Fernando
-Jaxson Hayes
-Jarrett Culver
-Rui Hachimura
-Romeo Langford
100% the unprotected. Just look how hard it is to acquire a 1st in a deal these days, when they used to be thrown around in trades like footballs just a few years ago (see Larbrd's post on the Jeff Green transactional saga).
The mere possibility that the pick could land top 5, top 3, #1 makes it more valuable no matter what actually happens, and we'd have tons of time to trade it while it still has that potential and thus inherent value.
It might or it might not. I mean Boston has seen this first hand. Remember when the Nets picks were just going to be some late 1st's, didn't work out that way, however, remember when Boston was getting a top 5 pick from the Kings, without some lottery luck that isn't happening either. Teams have gotten better about recognizing the uncertainty and valuing that uncertainty accordingly.
For Memphis, having the pick conveys gives them a lot more future flexibility as they can go into full bore rebuilding and not worry about having to give up a pick, so if does convey that is what I'd expect them to do.
You’ll have to save that argument for someone else, I wanted to trade the sacto pick + Rozier + Morris this summer (specifically for Bulls pick / Wendell Carter cuz I didn’t think we could get Jaren Jackson Jr) and posted it on this site dozens of times. Go find it.
That’s why you deal the pick then, when it has the allure of #1 and is worth a ton more. Do you invest? This is asset management 101.
It is only a bigger asset if people think it will be a bigger asset. My point was, time and time again we are seeing picks not end up anywhere near where people thought they would. That uncertainty makes the value a lot less then it might ultimately end up.
Your point is 100% correct, I agree, but I think league transaction trends show that GMs are pie in the sky when it comes to draft picks.
The allure of possibly getting a top 3 pick without paying the true cost of a top 3 pick (which basically no one can afford) is too great.
You don’t agree?
Current picks with its draft position being known will almost always have more value than a future pick. The NFL has been showing this to be the case for years and years. Obviously I'm not talking about an end of the 1st round pick, but a pick in the top 10, even 9 or 10, I'd say has more value than a potentially higher pick 2 years in the future. The unknown in who will be in the future draft alone decreases the value of a pick significantly, as does the potential draft position, the delaying of the player for 2 years, etc. If you could guarantee a top 3 pick in 2021, then sure that would have more value than 9 this year, but you can't guarantee a future draft position. heck even if Memphis is the worst team in the league leading up to the 2021 draft, they might end up with the 5th pick with the new lottery rules.
Ya I disagree pretty strongly. So does Memphis, thats why they're fighting so hard to get the pick to convey. Sure, there's always some chance the pick ends up worse than you would like. But in a league where upside is King top 5 type talent is so much more value then a pick around 9-10 that GM's will bet on that upside, because even if the chance is relatively small the pay off is huge. Its the same reason why you almost never see people trade u from mid lottery to top 5. n top of that argent its pretty clear the direction Memphis is going right now, they are getting younger, getting worse and likely to see Mike Conley either eave or take a step back in the next year as he ages. They are in the Western conference where they simply arent getting into the playoffs the next two years. Best ase, top 5 pick. Worst case, 12-14 in two years. Given that lack of high end talent and depth in this draft at the 9-12 spots there's really no downside here.
The reason Memphis disagrees and wants to have next year's pick is because they have the ability to completely blow up their team this off season. They can control just how bad those future picks are simply by blowing up the team completely.
If the pick doesn't convey this year, there is the chance they don't blow it up and do everything to win to get the pick to convey post pick#6 next year.
Memphis will control where this pick ends up, so of course, they agree next year's pick is more valuable because if they control it and the following year's pick without attachments they can tear this team down to nothing and reap the benefits of a top 5 pick the next two year's.
You have a good argument. I think many GMs see things your way, others Moranis'. But I wouldn't use Memphis as an example they agree with either of you. Memphis has it's own agenda that has nothing to do with the value of future picks versus current picks.
Memphis clearly values getting top five picks in the next two drafts while giving up a #9 pick this year over any other scenario and their actions don't involve agreeing with either of you. They want to give up as little as possible while gaining the ability to start their multi-year tank with fetters on none of their picks they control.
Memphis wants to stack the deck for getting possible #1 picks in 2020 and 2021 by giving up a #9 this year because they can blow it up this offseason. They want multiple #1 picks. All their actions will be based around trying to maximize their two picks in the next 3 years while minimizing the pick they have to give Boston.
This exactly. I've made this argument consistently in this thread. The bottom line is the Grizzlies have a lot more options going forward if they control all of their own picks.
I agree that the grizz are trying to give the pick to control their own tanking, but part of that is also them reading the tea leaves. They have no obvious Avenue to get better, and a few ways to get much worse. That to me slants the value equation in favor of wanting a more lightly protected pick. The fact that the back of this lottery is weak only really rei forces that. To put it simply, worst case is a slightly worse pick in a probably equivalent or better draft, best case is top 5 pick. That's an easy call to me.
They got a lot better after moving on from Gasol. If the pick doesn't transfer, they will get a top 10 pick this year and potentially a top 5 pick next year. They have Conley to trade for value (they would get at least one 1st for him). We've seen 2 teams this year alone basically turn it around in 2 off seasons in the Kings and Nets (there are almost 0 players on either of those team more than 3 seasons). The Nets didn't even have any high picks and still managed to turn it around. That obviously may not happen, but there is enough evidence out there that shows a blue print for not being terrible for very long.
Again tho, if the kings are the absolutely worst case scenario then that's not bad. Getting the 13-14th pick in the draft is not drastically different then the 9th-10th pick especially in a draft considered pretty weekend after the top 3. The upside of a top 5 pick in my opinion clearly out ways the potential loss in value. And for every nets team that turns it around in two years there is Phoenix, Orlando, Clevland etc that spends half a decade or more in the lottery. Even the Kings who you point out sucked for a decade before they figured it out. Trading Conley would actually be awesome. They would get value, but nothing that will help them as much or as soon as Conley in all likelihood.
And too be honest I think both us, if we used the pick, or the NOP if its trade bait would rather the pick roll over for practical reasons. We are for sure getting 3 picks already, if we have to make them that's 3 rookies we already can't really play. If we trade it NOP has the same.priblems, even rebuilding teams don't want that many young guys all at once. Hard to play them all. And rebuilding teams almost always chase upside. Hence the desire for the puck to roll over.
I can guarantee you the Pelicans would value the pick more if they knew it was conveying at #9 in the upcoming than they would if it rolls over and remains an unknown quantity.
Savvy GM's just don't look at future picks in the way you think they do.
I just don't agree. Don't forget they are getting a new GM, whomever comes in has a couple years of equity and likely the leeway for a longer rebuild. I think they'd much rather be able to tell their owner they got a potential top 5 pick than number 9.
I think people just underestimate the value of a top pi k. You can trade stuff and get into the mid to late lottery, top 4s are rarely traded except for other top 4 picks. It's the single most valuable thing in the nba (outside of a rookie scale star like Doncic).
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Griz beat the Suns tonight.
So now the Griz are just a half game behind the Pels for the #9 pick.
Looks like the Griz are really trying to win every game so that their 2019 pick will go to Boston this year.
Is the #9 pick more valuable than a potential 2020 top 6 protected pick or 2021 unprotected pick?
Let me look into my crystal ball 8)
Joking aside, getting the 9 pick would be either a great trade chip or would land us a pretty good player. Depending on which mock draft you read, the following talent could be available at no. 9, all of whom sound very intriguing.
-Bruno Fernando
-Jaxson Hayes
-Jarrett Culver
-Rui Hachimura
-Romeo Langford
100% the unprotected. Just look how hard it is to acquire a 1st in a deal these days, when they used to be thrown around in trades like footballs just a few years ago (see Larbrd's post on the Jeff Green transactional saga).
The mere possibility that the pick could land top 5, top 3, #1 makes it more valuable no matter what actually happens, and we'd have tons of time to trade it while it still has that potential and thus inherent value.
It might or it might not. I mean Boston has seen this first hand. Remember when the Nets picks were just going to be some late 1st's, didn't work out that way, however, remember when Boston was getting a top 5 pick from the Kings, without some lottery luck that isn't happening either. Teams have gotten better about recognizing the uncertainty and valuing that uncertainty accordingly.
For Memphis, having the pick conveys gives them a lot more future flexibility as they can go into full bore rebuilding and not worry about having to give up a pick, so if does convey that is what I'd expect them to do.
You’ll have to save that argument for someone else, I wanted to trade the sacto pick + Rozier + Morris this summer (specifically for Bulls pick / Wendell Carter cuz I didn’t think we could get Jaren Jackson Jr) and posted it on this site dozens of times. Go find it.
That’s why you deal the pick then, when it has the allure of #1 and is worth a ton more. Do you invest? This is asset management 101.
It is only a bigger asset if people think it will be a bigger asset. My point was, time and time again we are seeing picks not end up anywhere near where people thought they would. That uncertainty makes the value a lot less then it might ultimately end up.
Your point is 100% correct, I agree, but I think league transaction trends show that GMs are pie in the sky when it comes to draft picks.
The allure of possibly getting a top 3 pick without paying the true cost of a top 3 pick (which basically no one can afford) is too great.
You don’t agree?
Current picks with its draft position being known will almost always have more value than a future pick. The NFL has been showing this to be the case for years and years. Obviously I'm not talking about an end of the 1st round pick, but a pick in the top 10, even 9 or 10, I'd say has more value than a potentially higher pick 2 years in the future. The unknown in who will be in the future draft alone decreases the value of a pick significantly, as does the potential draft position, the delaying of the player for 2 years, etc. If you could guarantee a top 3 pick in 2021, then sure that would have more value than 9 this year, but you can't guarantee a future draft position. heck even if Memphis is the worst team in the league leading up to the 2021 draft, they might end up with the 5th pick with the new lottery rules.
Ya I disagree pretty strongly. So does Memphis, thats why they're fighting so hard to get the pick to convey. Sure, there's always some chance the pick ends up worse than you would like. But in a league where upside is King top 5 type talent is so much more value then a pick around 9-10 that GM's will bet on that upside, because even if the chance is relatively small the pay off is huge. Its the same reason why you almost never see people trade u from mid lottery to top 5. n top of that argent its pretty clear the direction Memphis is going right now, they are getting younger, getting worse and likely to see Mike Conley either eave or take a step back in the next year as he ages. They are in the Western conference where they simply arent getting into the playoffs the next two years. Best ase, top 5 pick. Worst case, 12-14 in two years. Given that lack of high end talent and depth in this draft at the 9-12 spots there's really no downside here.
The reason Memphis disagrees and wants to have next year's pick is because they have the ability to completely blow up their team this off season. They can control just how bad those future picks are simply by blowing up the team completely.
If the pick doesn't convey this year, there is the chance they don't blow it up and do everything to win to get the pick to convey post pick#6 next year.
Memphis will control where this pick ends up, so of course, they agree next year's pick is more valuable because if they control it and the following year's pick without attachments they can tear this team down to nothing and reap the benefits of a top 5 pick the next two year's.
You have a good argument. I think many GMs see things your way, others Moranis'. But I wouldn't use Memphis as an example they agree with either of you. Memphis has it's own agenda that has nothing to do with the value of future picks versus current picks.
Memphis clearly values getting top five picks in the next two drafts while giving up a #9 pick this year over any other scenario and their actions don't involve agreeing with either of you. They want to give up as little as possible while gaining the ability to start their multi-year tank with fetters on none of their picks they control.
Memphis wants to stack the deck for getting possible #1 picks in 2020 and 2021 by giving up a #9 this year because they can blow it up this offseason. They want multiple #1 picks. All their actions will be based around trying to maximize their two picks in the next 3 years while minimizing the pick they have to give Boston.
This exactly. I've made this argument consistently in this thread. The bottom line is the Grizzlies have a lot more options going forward if they control all of their own picks.
I agree that the grizz are trying to give the pick to control their own tanking, but part of that is also them reading the tea leaves. They have no obvious Avenue to get better, and a few ways to get much worse. That to me slants the value equation in favor of wanting a more lightly protected pick. The fact that the back of this lottery is weak only really rei forces that. To put it simply, worst case is a slightly worse pick in a probably equivalent or better draft, best case is top 5 pick. That's an easy call to me.
They got a lot better after moving on from Gasol. If the pick doesn't transfer, they will get a top 10 pick this year and potentially a top 5 pick next year. They have Conley to trade for value (they would get at least one 1st for him). We've seen 2 teams this year alone basically turn it around in 2 off seasons in the Kings and Nets (there are almost 0 players on either of those team more than 3 seasons). The Nets didn't even have any high picks and still managed to turn it around. That obviously may not happen, but there is enough evidence out there that shows a blue print for not being terrible for very long.
Again tho, if the kings are the absolutely worst case scenario then that's not bad. Getting the 13-14th pick in the draft is not drastically different then the 9th-10th pick especially in a draft considered pretty weekend after the top 3. The upside of a top 5 pick in my opinion clearly out ways the potential loss in value. And for every nets team that turns it around in two years there is Phoenix, Orlando, Clevland etc that spends half a decade or more in the lottery. Even the Kings who you point out sucked for a decade before they figured it out. Trading Conley would actually be awesome. They would get value, but nothing that will help them as much or as soon as Conley in all likelihood.
And too be honest I think both us, if we used the pick, or the NOP if its trade bait would rather the pick roll over for practical reasons. We are for sure getting 3 picks already, if we have to make them that's 3 rookies we already can't really play. If we trade it NOP has the same.priblems, even rebuilding teams don't want that many young guys all at once. Hard to play them all. And rebuilding teams almost always chase upside. Hence the desire for the puck to roll over.
I can guarantee you the Pelicans would value the pick more if they knew it was conveying at #9 in the upcoming than they would if it rolls over and remains an unknown quantity.
Savvy GM's just don't look at future picks in the way you think they do.
I just don't agree. Don't forget they are getting a new GM, whomever comes in has a couple years of equity and likely the leeway for a longer rebuild. I think they'd much rather be able to tell their owner they got a potential top 5 pick than number 9.
I think people just underestimate the value of a top pi k. You can trade stuff and get into the mid to late lottery, top 4s are rarely traded except for other top 4 picks. It's the single most valuable thing in the nba (outside of a rookie scale star like Doncic).
Nobody is underestimating the value of a top pick. But the pick we are talking about isn't a top pick and has no guarantee of being a top pick.
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Griz beat the Suns tonight.
So now the Griz are just a half game behind the Pels for the #9 pick.
Looks like the Griz are really trying to win every game so that their 2019 pick will go to Boston this year.
Is the #9 pick more valuable than a potential 2020 top 6 protected pick or 2021 unprotected pick?
Let me look into my crystal ball 8)
Joking aside, getting the 9 pick would be either a great trade chip or would land us a pretty good player. Depending on which mock draft you read, the following talent could be available at no. 9, all of whom sound very intriguing.
-Bruno Fernando
-Jaxson Hayes
-Jarrett Culver
-Rui Hachimura
-Romeo Langford
100% the unprotected. Just look how hard it is to acquire a 1st in a deal these days, when they used to be thrown around in trades like footballs just a few years ago (see Larbrd's post on the Jeff Green transactional saga).
The mere possibility that the pick could land top 5, top 3, #1 makes it more valuable no matter what actually happens, and we'd have tons of time to trade it while it still has that potential and thus inherent value.
It might or it might not. I mean Boston has seen this first hand. Remember when the Nets picks were just going to be some late 1st's, didn't work out that way, however, remember when Boston was getting a top 5 pick from the Kings, without some lottery luck that isn't happening either. Teams have gotten better about recognizing the uncertainty and valuing that uncertainty accordingly.
For Memphis, having the pick conveys gives them a lot more future flexibility as they can go into full bore rebuilding and not worry about having to give up a pick, so if does convey that is what I'd expect them to do.
You’ll have to save that argument for someone else, I wanted to trade the sacto pick + Rozier + Morris this summer (specifically for Bulls pick / Wendell Carter cuz I didn’t think we could get Jaren Jackson Jr) and posted it on this site dozens of times. Go find it.
That’s why you deal the pick then, when it has the allure of #1 and is worth a ton more. Do you invest? This is asset management 101.
It is only a bigger asset if people think it will be a bigger asset. My point was, time and time again we are seeing picks not end up anywhere near where people thought they would. That uncertainty makes the value a lot less then it might ultimately end up.
Your point is 100% correct, I agree, but I think league transaction trends show that GMs are pie in the sky when it comes to draft picks.
The allure of possibly getting a top 3 pick without paying the true cost of a top 3 pick (which basically no one can afford) is too great.
You don’t agree?
Current picks with its draft position being known will almost always have more value than a future pick. The NFL has been showing this to be the case for years and years. Obviously I'm not talking about an end of the 1st round pick, but a pick in the top 10, even 9 or 10, I'd say has more value than a potentially higher pick 2 years in the future. The unknown in who will be in the future draft alone decreases the value of a pick significantly, as does the potential draft position, the delaying of the player for 2 years, etc. If you could guarantee a top 3 pick in 2021, then sure that would have more value than 9 this year, but you can't guarantee a future draft position. heck even if Memphis is the worst team in the league leading up to the 2021 draft, they might end up with the 5th pick with the new lottery rules.
Ya I disagree pretty strongly. So does Memphis, thats why they're fighting so hard to get the pick to convey. Sure, there's always some chance the pick ends up worse than you would like. But in a league where upside is King top 5 type talent is so much more value then a pick around 9-10 that GM's will bet on that upside, because even if the chance is relatively small the pay off is huge. Its the same reason why you almost never see people trade u from mid lottery to top 5. n top of that argent its pretty clear the direction Memphis is going right now, they are getting younger, getting worse and likely to see Mike Conley either eave or take a step back in the next year as he ages. They are in the Western conference where they simply arent getting into the playoffs the next two years. Best ase, top 5 pick. Worst case, 12-14 in two years. Given that lack of high end talent and depth in this draft at the 9-12 spots there's really no downside here.
The reason Memphis disagrees and wants to have next year's pick is because they have the ability to completely blow up their team this off season. They can control just how bad those future picks are simply by blowing up the team completely.
If the pick doesn't convey this year, there is the chance they don't blow it up and do everything to win to get the pick to convey post pick#6 next year.
Memphis will control where this pick ends up, so of course, they agree next year's pick is more valuable because if they control it and the following year's pick without attachments they can tear this team down to nothing and reap the benefits of a top 5 pick the next two year's.
You have a good argument. I think many GMs see things your way, others Moranis'. But I wouldn't use Memphis as an example they agree with either of you. Memphis has it's own agenda that has nothing to do with the value of future picks versus current picks.
Memphis clearly values getting top five picks in the next two drafts while giving up a #9 pick this year over any other scenario and their actions don't involve agreeing with either of you. They want to give up as little as possible while gaining the ability to start their multi-year tank with fetters on none of their picks they control.
Memphis wants to stack the deck for getting possible #1 picks in 2020 and 2021 by giving up a #9 this year because they can blow it up this offseason. They want multiple #1 picks. All their actions will be based around trying to maximize their two picks in the next 3 years while minimizing the pick they have to give Boston.
This exactly. I've made this argument consistently in this thread. The bottom line is the Grizzlies have a lot more options going forward if they control all of their own picks.
I agree that the grizz are trying to give the pick to control their own tanking, but part of that is also them reading the tea leaves. They have no obvious Avenue to get better, and a few ways to get much worse. That to me slants the value equation in favor of wanting a more lightly protected pick. The fact that the back of this lottery is weak only really rei forces that. To put it simply, worst case is a slightly worse pick in a probably equivalent or better draft, best case is top 5 pick. That's an easy call to me.
They got a lot better after moving on from Gasol. If the pick doesn't transfer, they will get a top 10 pick this year and potentially a top 5 pick next year. They have Conley to trade for value (they would get at least one 1st for him). We've seen 2 teams this year alone basically turn it around in 2 off seasons in the Kings and Nets (there are almost 0 players on either of those team more than 3 seasons). The Nets didn't even have any high picks and still managed to turn it around. That obviously may not happen, but there is enough evidence out there that shows a blue print for not being terrible for very long.
Again tho, if the kings are the absolutely worst case scenario then that's not bad. Getting the 13-14th pick in the draft is not drastically different then the 9th-10th pick especially in a draft considered pretty weekend after the top 3. The upside of a top 5 pick in my opinion clearly out ways the potential loss in value. And for every nets team that turns it around in two years there is Phoenix, Orlando, Clevland etc that spends half a decade or more in the lottery. Even the Kings who you point out sucked for a decade before they figured it out. Trading Conley would actually be awesome. They would get value, but nothing that will help them as much or as soon as Conley in all likelihood.
And too be honest I think both us, if we used the pick, or the NOP if its trade bait would rather the pick roll over for practical reasons. We are for sure getting 3 picks already, if we have to make them that's 3 rookies we already can't really play. If we trade it NOP has the same.priblems, even rebuilding teams don't want that many young guys all at once. Hard to play them all. And rebuilding teams almost always chase upside. Hence the desire for the puck to roll over.
I can guarantee you the Pelicans would value the pick more if they knew it was conveying at #9 in the upcoming than they would if it rolls over and remains an unknown quantity.
Savvy GM's just don't look at future picks in the way you think they do.
I just don't agree. Don't forget they are getting a new GM, whomever comes in has a couple years of equity and likely the leeway for a longer rebuild. I think they'd much rather be able to tell their owner they got a potential top 5 pick than number 9.
I think people just underestimate the value of a top pi k. You can trade stuff and get into the mid to late lottery, top 4s are rarely traded except for other top 4 picks. It's the single most valuable thing in the nba (outside of a rookie scale star like Doncic).
Nobody is underestimating the value of a top pick. But the pick we are talking about isn't a top pick and has no guarantee of being a top pick.
Nope but there's a CHANCE it will be, and that chance alone is VERY valuable. If it conveys this year, that chance is gone.
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(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D3GNysIXkAE1EWb?format=jpg&name=900x900)
https://twitter.com/grizzliespr/status/1112825861693005825?s=21
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I agree that NBA types overvalue the potential of a future top pick. You really can't over value an actual top pick, but the potential for a pick to be a top pick is impossible to plan for unless it is your own actual pick. Too many teams tank, are inept, or both for a team that has no incentive to tank to get the top couple of picks. I think the league GM's over value that potential, and smart teams will capitalize on that. Trade a pick that "looks like" it could be a top5 pick, and get extra value. Maybe trade pick a year before its position is known for 2 future picks. Rinse and repeat. THen you can actually take those picks during a rebeuild if desired, or use for AD type trades. The sac pick was "worth" alot more last year than this simply due to potential alonem which in hind sight is purely a crap shoot. No way to know what it will be in todays day and age.
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The Griz are tied for 6th worst with Dallas, a half game "ahead of" New Orleans and Washington. But IMO, the Griz have the toughest remaining schedule, playing @Portland, an away/home split with Dallas who's good at home, @Detroit and close out home vs GS.
Seems like without Jonas, they *should* probably only win 1 of those games, home vs. Dallas. They could win another, but all the other teams have at least 2 winnable games, or are ahead of Memphis now and have 1-2 winnable games. Stay tuned 'til the finish!
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Tough remaining schedule for Memphis. I think they will need to sweep Dallas and win at least one more game just to have a chance at 9th. I think it's a very good chance the pick doesn't convey.
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Tough remaining schedule for Memphis. I think they will need to sweep Dallas and win at least one more game just to have a chance at 9th. I think it's a very good chance the pick doesn't convey.
i'm convinced Cuban's gonna make sure they lose both those games...isn't their pick to hawks top 6 protected?
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The Griz are tied for 6th worst with Dallas, a half game "ahead of" New Orleans and Washington. But IMO, the Griz have the toughest remaining schedule, playing @Portland, an away/home split with Dallas who's good at home, @Detroit and close out home vs GS.
Seems like without Jonas, they *should* probably only win 1 of those games, home vs. Dallas. They could win another, but all the other teams have at least 2 winnable games, or are ahead of Memphis now and have 1-2 winnable games. Stay tuned 'til the finish!
Golden State won't be trying to win that game.
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Tough remaining schedule for Memphis. I think they will need to sweep Dallas and win at least one more game just to have a chance at 9th. I think it's a very good chance the pick doesn't convey.
i'm convinced Cuban's gonna make sure they lose both those games...isn't their pick to hawks top 6 protected?
Top 5 I believe, and I bet they really, really wish they'd made it Top 6.
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i'm convinced Cuban's gonna make sure they lose both those games...isn't their pick to hawks top 6 protected?
It is going to convey eventually anyway. They may think they will be much better next year but I am not sure they would tank for that but who knows, you could be right. They may plan to keep the pick this year and then try to make the playoffs next year. At this point, they would need to "catch" Atlanta and Atlanta has an incentive to not let that happen.
2019 first round draft pick to Atlanta
Dallas' 1st round pick to Atlanta protected for selections 1-5 in 2019, 1-5 in 2020, 1-3 in 2021 and 1-3 in 2022 and unprotected in 2023 [Atlanta-Dallas, 6/21/2018]
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The Griz are tied for 6th worst with Dallas, a half game "ahead of" New Orleans and Washington. But IMO, the Griz have the toughest remaining schedule, playing @Portland, an away/home split with Dallas who's good at home, @Detroit and close out home vs GS.
Seems like without Jonas, they *should* probably only win 1 of those games, home vs. Dallas. They could win another, but all the other teams have at least 2 winnable games, or are ahead of Memphis now and have 1-2 winnable games. Stay tuned 'til the finish!
Golden State won't be trying to win that game.
If first place is on the line they will.
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The Griz are tied for 6th worst with Dallas, a half game "ahead of" New Orleans and Washington. But IMO, the Griz have the toughest remaining schedule, playing @Portland, an away/home split with Dallas who's good at home, @Detroit and close out home vs GS.
Seems like without Jonas, they *should* probably only win 1 of those games, home vs. Dallas. They could win another, but all the other teams have at least 2 winnable games, or are ahead of Memphis now and have 1-2 winnable games. Stay tuned 'til the finish!
Golden State won't be trying to win that game.
If first place is on the line they will.
also possibly if they want to beat out toronto for home court potential
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The Griz are tied for 6th worst with Dallas, a half game "ahead of" New Orleans and Washington. But IMO, the Griz have the toughest remaining schedule, playing @Portland, an away/home split with Dallas who's good at home, @Detroit and close out home vs GS.
Seems like without Jonas, they *should* probably only win 1 of those games, home vs. Dallas. They could win another, but all the other teams have at least 2 winnable games, or are ahead of Memphis now and have 1-2 winnable games. Stay tuned 'til the finish!
Golden State won't be trying to win that game.
If first place is on the line they will.
Pretty sure they lock up home court tonight beating denver at home... would have a 2 game lead and i believe the tiebreaker.
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The Griz are tied for 6th worst with Dallas, a half game "ahead of" New Orleans and Washington. But IMO, the Griz have the toughest remaining schedule, playing @Portland, an away/home split with Dallas who's good at home, @Detroit and close out home vs GS.
Seems like without Jonas, they *should* probably only win 1 of those games, home vs. Dallas. They could win another, but all the other teams have at least 2 winnable games, or are ahead of Memphis now and have 1-2 winnable games. Stay tuned 'til the finish!
Golden State won't be trying to win that game.
If first place is on the line they will.
also possibly if they want to beat out toronto for home court potential
I have never seen a team's coach comment on trying to edge out a second place team in the other conference on the chance they end up meeting them in the finals at the risk of not giving stars rest in a final game of season (especially players that have played as many games as the warriors have the last few seasons and kerr's constant discussion of rest and load mangement).
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The Griz are tied for 6th worst with Dallas, a half game "ahead of" New Orleans and Washington. But IMO, the Griz have the toughest remaining schedule, playing @Portland, an away/home split with Dallas who's good at home, @Detroit and close out home vs GS.
Seems like without Jonas, they *should* probably only win 1 of those games, home vs. Dallas. They could win another, but all the other teams have at least 2 winnable games, or are ahead of Memphis now and have 1-2 winnable games. Stay tuned 'til the finish!
Golden State won't be trying to win that game.
They might rest people but they'll be trying to win. Memphis without Jonas could easily still lose that. Then again, these picks have been all over the place and hard to predict. Just gotta take things as they come, even though the speculator in me doesn't want to.
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Tough remaining schedule for Memphis. I think they will need to sweep Dallas and win at least one more game just to have a chance at 9th. I think it's a very good chance the pick doesn't convey.
i'm convinced Cuban's gonna make sure they lose both those games...isn't their pick to hawks top 6 protected?
Players will play to win regardless like the 2013-2014 C’s
Dallas blew out Golden State 3/23. Then, last two games Luka sat out and they won against OKC on the road and blew out a 76ers squad resting/sitting Embiid and Butler.
The last time Memphis rested Conley 3/25, Dorsey and Caboclo went off for 21 and 24 pts in a win against OKC
JaVale McGee’s chasing blocks/rebounds with intensity during meaningless games, for his next contract
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Conley's listed as doubtful for tomorrow @POR.
Valanciunas, Kyle Anderson, Jaren Jackson Jr., and Dillon Brooks are expected to miss the rest of the regular season.
Avery Bradley's still out and might not play again this season. Noah hasn't played in four games.
Probably safe to assume Conley (rested four times in March) will sit one of the back-to-back games 4/9-4/10 @DET and vs. GSW.
It's silly season, maybe they'll go 5-0...
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@memgrizz injury report, April 5 at @dallasmavs:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D3V70djW0AEx0R1?format=jpg&name=900x900)
https://twitter.com/grizzliespr/status/1113932627608838145?s=21
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This dallas memphis game will not be nba quality.
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Griz won and Pels lost.
Looks like the 2019 Griz pick will convey.
Griz now have the #9 pick.
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Griz won and Pels lost.
Looks like the 2019 Griz pick will convey.
Griz now have the #9 pick.
lets see how the ping pong balls bounce
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Well with Memphis is in 9th by half a game (1 less loss than NO and WAS), but its been a frustrating less couple of days. Every one of the six-nine teams lost Wednesday, but there were some close games in there. And then today NO manages to lose to Phoenix. If things hold through the lottery the pick will convey, a huge shame given the loss of trade value that will result. Hard to see any path to not including Jayson Tatum in an AD trade in that scenario (probably already the case), and if we dont get AD then it will be very hard to manage around having four first round picks and no real way to have all those rookie on the team next year. Not to mention the 9th pick in a weak draft just isnt as high upside as a potential unprotected pick in 2021.
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Well with Memphis is in 9th by half a game (1 less loss than NO and WAS), but its been a frustrating less couple of days. Every one of the six-nine teams lost Wednesday, but there were some close games in there. And then today NO manages to lose to Phoenix. If things hold through the lottery the pick will convey, a huge shame given the loss of trade value that will result. Hard to see any path to not including Jayson Tatum in an AD trade in that scenario (probably already the case), and if we dont get AD then it will be very hard to manage around having four first round picks and no real way to have all those rookie on the team next year. Not to mention the 9th pick in a weak draft just isnt as high upside as a potential unprotected pick in 2021.
Again. The pick loses Zero value. None.
Now it holds more value because it is actual salary that can be used in a deal.
Dont think for 1 second NOP will not be happy ending the season with potenial of 5 first round picks plus a player.
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Well with Memphis is in 9th by half a game (1 less loss than NO and WAS), but its been a frustrating less couple of days. Every one of the six-nine teams lost Wednesday, but there were some close games in there. And then today NO manages to lose to Phoenix. If things hold through the lottery the pick will convey, a huge shame given the loss of trade value that will result. Hard to see any path to not including Jayson Tatum in an AD trade in that scenario (probably already the case), and if we dont get AD then it will be very hard to manage around having four first round picks and no real way to have all those rookie on the team next year. Not to mention the 9th pick in a weak draft just isnt as high upside as a potential unprotected pick in 2021.
Again. The pick loses Zero value. None.
Now it holds more value because it is actual salary that can be used in a deal.
Dont think for 1 second NOP will not be happy ending the season with potenial of 5 first round picks plus a player.
Normally I’d say those type of trades never work because the receiving team needs the roster space. However, the Pelicans will only have 8 players under contract for next season.
I still think it loses value. The potential of a top 5 pick 2 years from now is very appealing. Greater chance of getting a franchise player there than around 10. Even it ends up not being a top 5 pick I can’t see it going much beyond 10 so I would rather it roll over if I were them. I would rather take that risk.
Edit
Imagine if the Grizzlies won the lottery, and got the 4th pick and drafted say Jeff Green, I mean Cam Reddish. Haha
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Well with Memphis is in 9th by half a game (1 less loss than NO and WAS), but its been a frustrating less couple of days. Every one of the six-nine teams lost Wednesday, but there were some close games in there. And then today NO manages to lose to Phoenix. If things hold through the lottery the pick will convey, a huge shame given the loss of trade value that will result. Hard to see any path to not including Jayson Tatum in an AD trade in that scenario (probably already the case), and if we dont get AD then it will be very hard to manage around having four first round picks and no real way to have all those rookie on the team next year. Not to mention the 9th pick in a weak draft just isnt as high upside as a potential unprotected pick in 2021.
Again. The pick loses Zero value. None.
Now it holds more value because it is actual salary that can be used in a deal.
Dont think for 1 second NOP will not be happy ending the season with potenial of 5 first round picks plus a player.
While it’s certainly possible (and would be great!) for Memphis to be terrible for two more years, gifting us with a high pick, people have decided it *will* happen. How many of you were dreaming earlier this year about the awesome pick Sacto was going to give us? It’s entirely possible Memphis will land about where it is now or do even better.
To me, silky hit the biggest issue. What really matters is whether we can get AD, and if so how much it’s going to cost. If the ninth pick conveys, we should have enough salary to get him without sending Brown or Smart. It would be Tatum, RWIII, plus filler/picks. Because it’s tight, we probably need the ninth pick to convey to do that. Assuming that’s the deal we can make, do you still want the Memphis pick not to convey - so that we have to send two of Tatum, Smart, and Brown instead of just one?
My biggest worry is that Ainge and co know all this and reportedly want the pick not to convey this year. Which I am guessing means they don’t think they can do a deal for AD without including two of Smart, Tatum, and Brown. I’d still do that deal but it’s a lot less exciting than if we could send only one of them...
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Well with Memphis is in 9th by half a game (1 less loss than NO and WAS), but its been a frustrating less couple of days. Every one of the six-nine teams lost Wednesday, but there were some close games in there. And then today NO manages to lose to Phoenix. If things hold through the lottery the pick will convey, a huge shame given the loss of trade value that will result. Hard to see any path to not including Jayson Tatum in an AD trade in that scenario (probably already the case), and if we dont get AD then it will be very hard to manage around having four first round picks and no real way to have all those rookie on the team next year. Not to mention the 9th pick in a weak draft just isnt as high upside as a potential unprotected pick in 2021.
Again. The pick loses Zero value. None.
Now it holds more value because it is actual salary that can be used in a deal.
Dont think for 1 second NOP will not be happy ending the season with potenial of 5 first round picks plus a player.
While it’s certainly possible (and would be great!) for Memphis to be terrible for two more years, gifting us with a high pick, people have decided it *will* happen. How many of you were dreaming earlier this year about the awesome pick Sacto was going to give us? It’s entirely possible Memphis will land about where it is now or do even better.
To me, silky hit the biggest issue. What really matters is whether we can get AD, and if so how much it’s going to cost. If the ninth pick conveys, we should have enough salary to get him without sending Brown or Smart. It would be Tatum, RWIII, plus filler/picks. Because it’s tight, we probably need the ninth pick to convey to do that. Assuming that’s the deal we can make, do you still want the Memphis pick not to convey - so that we have to send two of Tatum, Smart, and Brown - because of the possibility the pick will land near the top of the draft in a couple years?
My biggest worry is that Ainge and co know all this and reportedly want the pick not to convey this year. Which I am guessing means they don’t think they can do a deal for AD without including two of Smart, Tatum, and Brown. I’d still do that deal but it’s a lot less exciting than if we could send only one of them...
Personally, I’m rooting for the pick to convey for this exact reason. They might somehow save themselves from having to deal Brown or Smart. Tatum is as good as gone imo in any deal for AD.
What is the expected salary for the 9th pick in the draft supposed to be like?
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Well with Memphis is in 9th by half a game (1 less loss than NO and WAS), but its been a frustrating less couple of days. Every one of the six-nine teams lost Wednesday, but there were some close games in there. And then today NO manages to lose to Phoenix. If things hold through the lottery the pick will convey, a huge shame given the loss of trade value that will result. Hard to see any path to not including Jayson Tatum in an AD trade in that scenario (probably already the case), and if we dont get AD then it will be very hard to manage around having four first round picks and no real way to have all those rookie on the team next year. Not to mention the 9th pick in a weak draft just isnt as high upside as a potential unprotected pick in 2021.
Again. The pick loses Zero value. None.
Now it holds more value because it is actual salary that can be used in a deal.
Dont think for 1 second NOP will not be happy ending the season with potenial of 5 first round picks plus a player.
While it’s certainly possible (and would be great!) for Memphis to be terrible for two more years, gifting us with a high pick, people have decided it *will* happen. How many of you were dreaming earlier this year about the awesome pick Sacto was going to give us? It’s entirely possible Memphis will land about where it is now or do even better.
To me, silky hit the biggest issue. What really matters is whether we can get AD, and if so how much it’s going to cost. If the ninth pick conveys, we should have enough salary to get him without sending Brown or Smart. It would be Tatum, RWIII, plus filler/picks. Because it’s tight, we probably need the ninth pick to convey to do that. Assuming that’s the deal we can make, do you still want the Memphis pick not to convey - so that we have to send two of Tatum, Smart, and Brown - because of the possibility the pick will land near the top of the draft in a couple years?
My biggest worry is that Ainge and co know all this and reportedly want the pick not to convey this year. Which I am guessing means they don’t think they can do a deal for AD without including two of Smart, Tatum, and Brown. I’d still do that deal but it’s a lot less exciting than if we could send only one of them...
Personally, I’m rooting for the pick to convey for this exact reason. They might somehow save themselves from having to deal Brown or Smart. Tatum is as good as gone imo in any deal for AD.
What is the expected salary for the 9th pick in the draft supposed to be like?
3.5ish mill
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Also to add.
If it still takes 2 of tatum brown smart then tatum is off the table and a pick is also off thr table. Imo.
Brown/smart/mem pick/sac pick/clipper pick/boston 2020 first
They want tatum then they dont get smart or brown.
Tatum/rw3/yabs/4 picks this year
Honestly, bith of those trades are offering too much for a potential single year of a player.
Kawhi went for demar, poeltl and a late first rounder. And Kawhi is a superior player who has shown he can single handedly win. Davis has not shown that much. Davis is not the best 2 way player in the league. Davis is not a finals mvp
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Also to add.
If it still takes 2 of tatum brown smart then tatum is off the table and a pick is also off thr table. Imo.
Brown/smart/mem pick/sac pick/clipper pick/boston 2020 first
They want tatum then they dont get smart or brown.
Tatum/rw3/yabs/4 picks this year
Honestly, bith of those trades are offering too much for a potential single year of a player.
Kawhi went for demar, poeltl and a late first rounder. And Kawhi is a superior player who has shown he can single handedly win. Davis has not shown that much. Davis is not the best 2 way player in the league. Davis is not a finals mvp
IMO you need to be aware that how you want to handle the AD situation and Memphis pick, and how Danny does, are not even close to the same.
Though I do like your point about the salary of the Memphis pick counting in the trade if it conveys this year. That should count for something.
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Also to add.
If it still takes 2 of tatum brown smart then tatum is off the table and a pick is also off thr table. Imo.
Brown/smart/mem pick/sac pick/clipper pick/boston 2020 first
They want tatum then they dont get smart or brown.
Tatum/rw3/yabs/4 picks this year
Honestly, bith of those trades are offering too much for a potential single year of a player.
Kawhi went for demar, poeltl and a late first rounder. And Kawhi is a superior player who has shown he can single handedly win. Davis has not shown that much. Davis is not the best 2 way player in the league. Davis is not a finals mvp
IMO you need to be aware that how you want to handle the AD situation and Memphis pick, and how Danny does, are not even close to the same.
Though I do like your point about the salary of the Memphis pick counting in the trade if it conveys this year. That should count for something.
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Keep the picks... Davis is great but gets injured a lot... i would like to notice 2 things... if the team reaches the final and win it do you make the trade? If a miracle happens and sac pick conveys as second or third and get all the other pics why spend it all for davies... let them lower the price first
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Also to add.
If it still takes 2 of tatum brown smart then tatum is off the table and a pick is also off thr table. Imo.
Brown/smart/mem pick/sac pick/clipper pick/boston 2020 first
They want tatum then they dont get smart or brown.
Tatum/rw3/yabs/4 picks this year
Honestly, bith of those trades are offering too much for a potential single year of a player.
Kawhi went for demar, poeltl and a late first rounder. And Kawhi is a superior player who has shown he can single handedly win. Davis has not shown that much. Davis is not the best 2 way player in the league. Davis is not a finals mvp
Yeah, ok. Toronto really sucked without Kawhi. They chocked in the playoffs but kicked a$$ with DeMar. Kawhi is one of my favorite players but you are slighting that Toronto has done nothing without Kawhi. Put the same team around Davis and see if the finish in the lottery. Kawhi is FAR from being a superior player. Sorry, you are wrong about this.
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Also to add.
If it still takes 2 of tatum brown smart then tatum is off the table and a pick is also off thr table. Imo.
Brown/smart/mem pick/sac pick/clipper pick/boston 2020 first
They want tatum then they dont get smart or brown.
Tatum/rw3/yabs/4 picks this year
Honestly, bith of those trades are offering too much for a potential single year of a player.
Kawhi went for demar, poeltl and a late first rounder. And Kawhi is a superior player who has shown he can single handedly win. Davis has not shown that much. Davis is not the best 2 way player in the league. Davis is not a finals mvp
Yeah, ok. Toronto really sucked without Kawhi. They chocked in the playoffs but kicked a$$ with DeMar. Kawhi is one of my favorite players but you are slighting that Toronto has done nothing without Kawhi. Put the same team around Davis and see if the finish in the lottery. Kawhi is FAR from being a superior player. Sorry, you are wrong about this.
For what it’s worth I checked out Bill Simmons NBA trade value article in February, and Derozen came in at 37, Olidipo at 21, and Tatum at 18 if you want to compare the Kawhi and George deals. Of course Oladipo was probably much lower before being traded.
Tatum is already a good player, and the allure of his potential of being something more given his age carries a lot of weight.
A lot of it comes down to preference too. If you want to win like the Spurs you probably prefer Derozan, and if you want to build for the future like the Pelicans probably want to do Tatum is the way to go.
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Also to add.
If it still takes 2 of tatum brown smart then tatum is off the table and a pick is also off thr table. Imo.
Brown/smart/mem pick/sac pick/clipper pick/boston 2020 first
They want tatum then they dont get smart or brown.
Tatum/rw3/yabs/4 picks this year
Honestly, bith of those trades are offering too much for a potential single year of a player.
Kawhi went for demar, poeltl and a late first rounder. And Kawhi is a superior player who has shown he can single handedly win. Davis has not shown that much. Davis is not the best 2 way player in the league. Davis is not a finals mvp
Sorry, but are you saying Kawhi won single-handedly on the Spurs? With Tim Duncan, Manu Ginobili, Tony Parker and Pop? Or on the Raptors? With 5x All-Star Kyle Lowry, Pascal Siakam, Ibaka and now Marc Gasol
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Also to add.
If it still takes 2 of tatum brown smart then tatum is off the table and a pick is also off thr table. Imo.
Brown/smart/mem pick/sac pick/clipper pick/boston 2020 first
They want tatum then they dont get smart or brown.
Tatum/rw3/yabs/4 picks this year
Honestly, bith of those trades are offering too much for a potential single year of a player.
Kawhi went for demar, poeltl and a late first rounder. And Kawhi is a superior player who has shown he can single handedly win. Davis has not shown that much. Davis is not the best 2 way player in the league. Davis is not a finals mvp
Yeah, ok. Toronto really sucked without Kawhi. They chocked in the playoffs but kicked a$$ with DeMar. Kawhi is one of my favorite players but you are slighting that Toronto has done nothing without Kawhi. Put the same team around Davis and see if the finish in the lottery. Kawhi is FAR from being a superior player. Sorry, you are wrong about this.
I cannot see how anyone would agree with your assessment that kawhi is not superior to davis.
And I can also confidently say that if toronto made the exact same trade but for davis instead of Kawhi they would not has a good a record as they currently do.
Kawhi is easily a top 2 or 3 player in the world. Easily.
And Kawhi plays a positiin that can have a bigger impact on the game.
There is no arguing that.
Davis is top 10.
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Also to add.
If it still takes 2 of tatum brown smart then tatum is off the table and a pick is also off thr table. Imo.
Brown/smart/mem pick/sac pick/clipper pick/boston 2020 first
They want tatum then they dont get smart or brown.
Tatum/rw3/yabs/4 picks this year
Honestly, bith of those trades are offering too much for a potential single year of a player.
Kawhi went for demar, poeltl and a late first rounder. And Kawhi is a superior player who has shown he can single handedly win. Davis has not shown that much. Davis is not the best 2 way player in the league. Davis is not a finals mvp
Sorry, but are you saying Kawhi won single-handedly on the Spurs? With Tim Duncan, Manu Ginobili, Tony Parker and Pop? Or on the Raptors? With 5x All-Star Kyle Lowry, Pascal Siakam, Ibaka and now Marc Gasol
Kawhi was singlehandedly beating the warriors. Kawhi can take over a game and win it. Has shown he can do that. The examples are ample and easy to find.
There has been far fewer instances of 5 minutes left in the 4th of davis asserting his dominancd on both ends of the court.
That isnt a knock against davis...its alor harder to do so as a bigman.
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Well with Memphis is in 9th by half a game (1 less loss than NO and WAS), but its been a frustrating less couple of days. Every one of the six-nine teams lost Wednesday, but there were some close games in there. And then today NO manages to lose to Phoenix. If things hold through the lottery the pick will convey, a huge shame given the loss of trade value that will result. Hard to see any path to not including Jayson Tatum in an AD trade in that scenario (probably already the case), and if we dont get AD then it will be very hard to manage around having four first round picks and no real way to have all those rookie on the team next year. Not to mention the 9th pick in a weak draft just isnt as high upside as a potential unprotected pick in 2021.
Again. The pick loses Zero value. None.
Now it holds more value because it is actual salary that can be used in a deal.
Dont think for 1 second NOP will not be happy ending the season with potenial of 5 first round picks plus a player.
I don't know how else to say it, but you are just wrong about this. The number nine pick this year is just not as valuable as a POTENTIAL top 5 pick in two years.
For everyone saying things like "that pick isnt guaranteed to be top 5" or "It may end up like the Kings pick." I get all that. But you seriously underselling how valuable the top picks in a draft are, even potential top picks. There are really only two draft pics in the entire league out there right now with that kind upside. The MEM pick, and the MIA21 pick. Everything else is protected or would be devalued in a star trade since the acquiring team would be getting much better. Don't get me wrong, the number 9 pick isn't a disaster. But I guarantee you teams dont view that pick as highly as they would if the obligation just rolls over.
As for the ability to use the salary in a trade, that means almost nothing as well. With the three picks we already have, Tatum, Yabu and Williams we are right at the line required salary wise anyway for an AD trade. If we need to include Smart or Brown then the additional money matters literally not all. Let me put this all another way. If you are trading AD you are going to lose the trade, but you at least want to maximize your chances to get a star. Getting Tatum is one way to do that, getting a potential top five pick is another way. YOU WANT THAT CHANCE, EVEN IF IT IS FAR FROM A GUARANTEE. Its the only way the trade isnt a disaster for you.
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Well with Memphis is in 9th by half a game (1 less loss than NO and WAS), but its been a frustrating less couple of days. Every one of the six-nine teams lost Wednesday, but there were some close games in there. And then today NO manages to lose to Phoenix. If things hold through the lottery the pick will convey, a huge shame given the loss of trade value that will result. Hard to see any path to not including Jayson Tatum in an AD trade in that scenario (probably already the case), and if we dont get AD then it will be very hard to manage around having four first round picks and no real way to have all those rookie on the team next year. Not to mention the 9th pick in a weak draft just isnt as high upside as a potential unprotected pick in 2021.
Again. The pick loses Zero value. None.
Now it holds more value because it is actual salary that can be used in a deal.
Dont think for 1 second NOP will not be happy ending the season with potenial of 5 first round picks plus a player.
I don't know how else to say it, but you are just wrong about this. The number nine pick this year is just not as valuable as a POTENTIAL top 5 pick in two years.
For everyone saying things like "that pick isnt guaranteed to be top 5" or "It may end up like the Kings pick." I get all that. But you seriously underselling how valuable the top picks in a draft are, even potential top picks. There are really only two draft pics in the entire league out there right now with that kind upside. The MEM pick, and the MIA21 pick. Everything else is protected or would be devalued in a star trade since the acquiring team would be getting much better. Don't get me wrong, the number 9 pick isn't a disaster. But I guarantee you teams dont view that pick as highly as they would if the obligation just rolls over.
As for the ability to use the salary in a trade, that means almost nothing as well. With the three picks we already have, Tatum, Yabu and Williams we are right at the line required salary wise anyway for an AD trade. If we need to include Smart or Brown then the additional money matters literally not all. Let me put this all another way. If you are trading AD you are going to lose the trade, but you at least want to maximize your chances to get a star. Getting Tatum is one way to do that, getting a potential top five pick is another way. YOU WANT THAT CHANCE, EVEN IF IT IS FAR FROM A GUARANTEE. Its the only way the trade isnt a disaster for you.
I'm not wrong, you're wrong!
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Also to add.
If it still takes 2 of tatum brown smart then tatum is off the table and a pick is also off thr table. Imo.
Brown/smart/mem pick/sac pick/clipper pick/boston 2020 first
They want tatum then they dont get smart or brown.
Tatum/rw3/yabs/4 picks this year
Honestly, bith of those trades are offering too much for a potential single year of a player.
Kawhi went for demar, poeltl and a late first rounder. And Kawhi is a superior player who has shown he can single handedly win. Davis has not shown that much. Davis is not the best 2 way player in the league. Davis is not a finals mvp
Sorry, but are you saying Kawhi won single-handedly on the Spurs? With Tim Duncan, Manu Ginobili, Tony Parker and Pop? Or on the Raptors? With 5x All-Star Kyle Lowry, Pascal Siakam, Ibaka and now Marc Gasol
Kawhi was singlehandedly beating the warriors. Kawhi can take over a game and win it. Has shown he can do that. The examples are ample and easy to find.
There has been far fewer instances of 5 minutes left in the 4th of davis asserting his dominancd on both ends of the court.
That isnt a knock against davis...its alor harder to do so as a bigman.
Kawhi maybe better, but its close and you can make a real argument Davis is better. Davis is also younger, and isnt coming off missing literally a whole season. You can also make the argument that Kawhi's tough to read nature scared teams off, and that Davis has so far given more hints that he would at least consider resigning wherever he went. Also, the Spurs clearly wanted win now pieces so its hard to now exactly what the equivalent haul of young guys is.
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totally disagree. 9th guaranteed is equal to potential top 5 in 2 years at the very least. Really comes down to strength of the respective drafts and contending curve of your team. If you have 1 missing piece now to contend versus long term goal of building from where your team is now. Kings scenario is just as likely if not more so than a team tanking to get a top pick they won't be receiving. Too many teams tank...a team that gave up the pick will not be.
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Well with Memphis is in 9th by half a game (1 less loss than NO and WAS), but its been a frustrating less couple of days. Every one of the six-nine teams lost Wednesday, but there were some close games in there. And then today NO manages to lose to Phoenix. If things hold through the lottery the pick will convey, a huge shame given the loss of trade value that will result. Hard to see any path to not including Jayson Tatum in an AD trade in that scenario (probably already the case), and if we dont get AD then it will be very hard to manage around having four first round picks and no real way to have all those rookie on the team next year. Not to mention the 9th pick in a weak draft just isnt as high upside as a potential unprotected pick in 2021.
Again. The pick loses Zero value. None.
Now it holds more value because it is actual salary that can be used in a deal.
Dont think for 1 second NOP will not be happy ending the season with potenial of 5 first round picks plus a player.
I don't know how else to say it, but you are just wrong about this. The number nine pick this year is just not as valuable as a POTENTIAL top 5 pick in two years.
For everyone saying things like "that pick isnt guaranteed to be top 5" or "It may end up like the Kings pick." I get all that. But you seriously underselling how valuable the top picks in a draft are, even potential top picks. There are really only two draft pics in the entire league out there right now with that kind upside. The MEM pick, and the MIA21 pick. Everything else is protected or would be devalued in a star trade since the acquiring team would be getting much better. Don't get me wrong, the number 9 pick isn't a disaster. But I guarantee you teams dont view that pick as highly as they would if the obligation just rolls over.
As for the ability to use the salary in a trade, that means almost nothing as well. With the three picks we already have, Tatum, Yabu and Williams we are right at the line required salary wise anyway for an AD trade. If we need to include Smart or Brown then the additional money matters literally not all. Let me put this all another way. If you are trading AD you are going to lose the trade, but you at least want to maximize your chances to get a star. Getting Tatum is one way to do that, getting a potential top five pick is another way. YOU WANT THAT CHANCE, EVEN IF IT IS FAR FROM A GUARANTEE. Its the only way the trade isnt a disaster for you.
I'm not wrong, you're wrong!
I often am, and I might very well be in this case. Who knows? But if a team is trying its best to give you one thing (number nine pick), over MAYBE having to give you something else (top five pick), its because that second thing is more valuable.
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totally disagree. 9th guaranteed is equal to potential top 5 in 2 years at the very least. Really comes down to strength of the respective drafts and contending curve of your team. If you have 1 missing piece now to contend versus long term goal of building from where your team is now. Kings scenario is just as likely if not more so than a team tanking to get a top pick they won't be receiving. Too many teams tank...a team that gave up the pick will not be.
Except that whether a team has its pick or not doesn't usually make all that much difference in terms of how good they are. We just saw this with the nets, they had every incentive not to be a top 5 bad team and yet still gave us two #3 overall picks. Everybody hold up the kings as an example, but they lucked into it, it all came down to Fox making a leap that very few saw coming, he was terrible his rookie year.
The Grizz are is that sort of boat, they are a mess this year and wnat to trade their only really good player while he still has some value. So lets play it out. Lets say the grizz can't get out of the top eight and get the 7th or 8th pick this year, that likely not a game changer in a below average draft. Then they have to decide whether they trade or keep Conley. If they trade him theres a good chance they are bottom six next year, and then the climb becomes unprotected. Even if they draft a really good player its gonna be a rookie, and with flattened lottery odds you no longer need an absolute bottom 5 team for a very good shot at a top five pick. If they keep Conley then he gets older, risks an injury, and loses value meanwhile they is still no guarantee for them that they'd convey the pick next year, especially given the chance he gets hurt and they still stink. This is why they wnat the pick to convey this year, its gonna be hard for them to rebuild if they have a threat of both being awful and conveying a good pick to us.
Again, this of it this way. The worst but still plausible outcome is the Kings situation where the Grizz give us the 13th or 14th pick either next year or in 2021, that does lose us a couple spots but this draft isnt great and in that area of the draft losing 4 spots isnt a huge drop of in value. And its probably better all else being equal to space out the picks anyway if we are gonna keep them. The best but still plausible outcome is a top five pick in 2021. The value gained between the 9 and say 3rd pick, vs the value lost in 9th to 14th is so much greater that even if you think the overall chance we get the 3rd pick is low, its still the better value play.
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If Memphis loses tomorrow to Dallas, suddenly teams 6 through 9 are all tied at 32 wins. Even as it is now, 7-8 are 32-48 while memphis is 32-47.
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Well with Memphis is in 9th by half a game (1 less loss than NO and WAS), but its been a frustrating less couple of days. Every one of the six-nine teams lost Wednesday, but there were some close games in there. And then today NO manages to lose to Phoenix. If things hold through the lottery the pick will convey, a huge shame given the loss of trade value that will result. Hard to see any path to not including Jayson Tatum in an AD trade in that scenario (probably already the case), and if we dont get AD then it will be very hard to manage around having four first round picks and no real way to have all those rookie on the team next year. Not to mention the 9th pick in a weak draft just isnt as high upside as a potential unprotected pick in 2021.
Again. The pick loses Zero value. None.
Now it holds more value because it is actual salary that can be used in a deal.
Dont think for 1 second NOP will not be happy ending the season with potenial of 5 first round picks plus a player.
I don't know how else to say it, but you are just wrong about this. The number nine pick this year is just not as valuable as a POTENTIAL top 5 pick in two years.
For everyone saying things like "that pick isnt guaranteed to be top 5" or "It may end up like the Kings pick." I get all that. But you seriously underselling how valuable the top picks in a draft are, even potential top picks. There are really only two draft pics in the entire league out there right now with that kind upside. The MEM pick, and the MIA21 pick. Everything else is protected or would be devalued in a star trade since the acquiring team would be getting much better. Don't get me wrong, the number 9 pick isn't a disaster. But I guarantee you teams dont view that pick as highly as they would if the obligation just rolls over.
As for the ability to use the salary in a trade, that means almost nothing as well. With the three picks we already have, Tatum, Yabu and Williams we are right at the line required salary wise anyway for an AD trade. If we need to include Smart or Brown then the additional money matters literally not all. Let me put this all another way. If you are trading AD you are going to lose the trade, but you at least want to maximize your chances to get a star. Getting Tatum is one way to do that, getting a potential top five pick is another way. YOU WANT THAT CHANCE, EVEN IF IT IS FAR FROM A GUARANTEE. Its the only way the trade isnt a disaster for you.
I'm not wrong, you're wrong!
I often am, and I might very well be in this case. Who knows? But if a team is trying its best to give you one thing (number nine pick), over MAYBE having to give you something else (top five pick), its because that second thing is more valuable.
Or they just want to get it over with.
For them there is little risk and all reward.
Perhaps they do poorly moving on, perhaps not, there is no definitive answer at this point, but removing all external obligations is better for the team, not necessarily because they dont believe they will improve but because it is one less thing to be oblidged to do.
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A look at some past #9 picks...
2017 - Pick: Dennis Smith Jr., PG, N.C. State
2012 - Pick: Andre Drummond, C, UConn
2011 - Pick: Kemba Walker, PG, UConn
2010 - Pick: Gordon Hayward, SF, Butler
2009 - Pick: Demar DeRozan, SG, USC
2002 - Amar’e Stoudemire
1998 - Dirk Nowitzki
I know the past doesn't mean a lot, however you never know...
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A look at some past #9 picks...
2017 - Pick: Dennis Smith Jr., PG, N.C. State
2012 - Pick: Andre Drummond, C, UConn
2011 - Pick: Kemba Walker, PG, UConn
2010 - Pick: Gordon Hayward, SF, Butler
2009 - Pick: Demar DeRozan, SG, USC
2002 - Amar’e Stoudemire
1998 - Dirk Nowitzki
I know the past doesn't mean a lot, however you never know...
Also
Joakim Noah
Andre Iguodala
Shawn Marion
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A look at some past #9 picks...
2017 - Pick: Dennis Smith Jr., PG, N.C. State
2012 - Pick: Andre Drummond, C, UConn
2011 - Pick: Kemba Walker, PG, UConn
2010 - Pick: Gordon Hayward, SF, Butler
2009 - Pick: Demar DeRozan, SG, USC
2002 - Amar’e Stoudemire
1998 - Dirk Nowitzki
I know the past doesn't mean a lot, however you never know...
The #9 pick seems to be very much complete hit or complete bust since the mid 90's. Not a lot in between.
2017 Dennis Smith Jr., N.C. State – Dallas Mavericks
2016 Jakob Poeltl, Utah – Toronto Raptors
2015 Frank Kaminsky, Wisconsin – Charlotte Hornets
2014 Noah Vonleh, Indiana – Charlotte Hornets
2013 Trey Burke, Michigan – Minnesota Timberwolves
2012 Andre Drummond, Connecticut – Detroit Pistons
2011 Kemba Walker, Connecticut – Charlotte Bobcats
2010 Gordon Hayward, Butler – Utah Jazz2000’s2009 DeMar Derozen, USC – Toronto Raptors
2008 D.J. Augustin, Texas – Charlotte Bobcats
2007 Joakim Noah, Florida – Chicago Bulls
2006 Patrick O’Bryant, Bradley – Golden State Warriors
2005 Ike Diogu, Arizona State – Golden State Warriors
2004 Andre Iguodala, Arizona – Philadelphia 76ers
2003 Mike Sweetney, Georgetown – New York Knicks
2002 Amare Stoudemire, Cypress Creek HS (Fla.) – Phoenix Suns
2001 Rodney White, UNC-Charlotte – Detroit Pistons
2000 Joel Przybilla, Minnesota – Houston Rockets1990’s1999 Shawn Marion, UNLV – Phoenix Suns
1998 Dirk Nowitzki, Germany – Milwaukee Bucks
1997 Tracy McGrady, Mount Zion Christian Academy (N.C.) – Toronto Raptors
1996 Samaki Walker, Louisville – Dallas Mavericks
1995 Ed O’Bannon, UCLA – New Jersey Nets
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totally disagree. 9th guaranteed is equal to potential top 5 in 2 years at the very least. Really comes down to strength of the respective drafts and contending curve of your team. If you have 1 missing piece now to contend versus long term goal of building from where your team is now. Kings scenario is just as likely if not more so than a team tanking to get a top pick they won't be receiving. Too many teams tank...a team that gave up the pick will not be.
Except that whether a team has its pick or not doesn't usually make all that much difference in terms of how good they are. We just saw this with the nets, they had every incentive not to be a top 5 bad team and yet still gave us two #3 overall picks. Everybody hold up the kings as an example, but they lucked into it, it all came down to Fox making a leap that very few saw coming, he was terrible his rookie year.
The Grizz are is that sort of boat, they are a mess this year and wnat to trade their only really good player while he still has some value. So lets play it out. Lets say the grizz can't get out of the top eight and get the 7th or 8th pick this year, that likely not a game changer in a below average draft. Then they have to decide whether they trade or keep Conley. If they trade him theres a good chance they are bottom six next year, and then the climb becomes unprotected. Even if they draft a really good player its gonna be a rookie, and with flattened lottery odds you no longer need an absolute bottom 5 team for a very good shot at a top five pick. If they keep Conley then he gets older, risks an injury, and loses value meanwhile they is still no guarantee for them that they'd convey the pick next year, especially given the chance he gets hurt and they still stink. This is why they wnat the pick to convey this year, its gonna be hard for them to rebuild if they have a threat of both being awful and conveying a good pick to us.
Again, this of it this way. The worst but still plausible outcome is the Kings situation where the Grizz give us the 13th or 14th pick either next year or in 2021, that does lose us a couple spots but this draft isnt great and in that area of the draft losing 4 spots isnt a huge drop of in value. And its probably better all else being equal to space out the picks anyway if we are gonna keep them. The best but still plausible outcome is a top five pick in 2021. The value gained between the 9 and say 3rd pick, vs the value lost in 9th to 14th is so much greater that even if you think the overall chance we get the 3rd pick is low, its still the better value play.
I look at it sort of like football. Yeah I know this isn't football, but to trade a pick into the next year is worth a round+. A 1st next year is worth a 2nd this year. A 1st this year is worth a first next year plus a 2nd this year. In the NBA one would think the loss of a year is worth at least 5-10 draft slots. 10th this year is worth a top 5 next year. Now strength of draft is VERY important in the NBA. I understand. Teams want to get better NOW to increase their revenue. Waiting is expensive. 76ers did something very different than usual with all of their "red shirting" to extend their high picks, and striking out on many of them...'
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Conley doubtful again (is he even going to play again this season?) and Doncic ruled out (same goes for him)
Must-lose game if you don’t want pick to convey
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Must win game for us who believe that the pick must convey now
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totally disagree. 9th guaranteed is equal to potential top 5 in 2 years at the very least. Really comes down to strength of the respective drafts and contending curve of your team. If you have 1 missing piece now to contend versus long term goal of building from where your team is now. Kings scenario is just as likely if not more so than a team tanking to get a top pick they won't be receiving. Too many teams tank...a team that gave up the pick will not be.
Except that whether a team has its pick or not doesn't usually make all that much difference in terms of how good they are. We just saw this with the nets, they had every incentive not to be a top 5 bad team and yet still gave us two #3 overall picks. Everybody hold up the kings as an example, but they lucked into it, it all came down to Fox making a leap that very few saw coming, he was terrible his rookie year.
The Grizz are is that sort of boat, they are a mess this year and wnat to trade their only really good player while he still has some value. So lets play it out. Lets say the grizz can't get out of the top eight and get the 7th or 8th pick this year, that likely not a game changer in a below average draft. Then they have to decide whether they trade or keep Conley. If they trade him theres a good chance they are bottom six next year, and then the climb becomes unprotected. Even if they draft a really good player its gonna be a rookie, and with flattened lottery odds you no longer need an absolute bottom 5 team for a very good shot at a top five pick. If they keep Conley then he gets older, risks an injury, and loses value meanwhile they is still no guarantee for them that they'd convey the pick next year, especially given the chance he gets hurt and they still stink. This is why they wnat the pick to convey this year, its gonna be hard for them to rebuild if they have a threat of both being awful and conveying a good pick to us.
Again, this of it this way. The worst but still plausible outcome is the Kings situation where the Grizz give us the 13th or 14th pick either next year or in 2021, that does lose us a couple spots but this draft isnt great and in that area of the draft losing 4 spots isnt a huge drop of in value. And its probably better all else being equal to space out the picks anyway if we are gonna keep them. The best but still plausible outcome is a top five pick in 2021. The value gained between the 9 and say 3rd pick, vs the value lost in 9th to 14th is so much greater that even if you think the overall chance we get the 3rd pick is low, its still the better value play.
I look at it sort of like football. Yeah I know this isn't football, but to trade a pick into the next year is worth a round+. A 1st next year is worth a 2nd this year. A 1st this year is worth a first next year plus a 2nd this year. In the NBA one would think the loss of a year is worth at least 5-10 draft slots. 10th this year is worth a top 5 next year. Now strength of draft is VERY important in the NBA. I understand. Teams want to get better NOW to increase their revenue. Waiting is expensive. 76ers did something very different than usual with all of their "red shirting" to extend their high picks, and striking out on many of them...'
thanks for the information above. would you be able to provide a link to the source? or if this is your take, share some of the reasoning and examples that took you to this conclusion.
thanks in advance.
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totally disagree. 9th guaranteed is equal to potential top 5 in 2 years at the very least. Really comes down to strength of the respective drafts and contending curve of your team. If you have 1 missing piece now to contend versus long term goal of building from where your team is now. Kings scenario is just as likely if not more so than a team tanking to get a top pick they won't be receiving. Too many teams tank...a team that gave up the pick will not be.
Except that whether a team has its pick or not doesn't usually make all that much difference in terms of how good they are. We just saw this with the nets, they had every incentive not to be a top 5 bad team and yet still gave us two #3 overall picks. Everybody hold up the kings as an example, but they lucked into it, it all came down to Fox making a leap that very few saw coming, he was terrible his rookie year.
The Grizz are is that sort of boat, they are a mess this year and wnat to trade their only really good player while he still has some value. So lets play it out. Lets say the grizz can't get out of the top eight and get the 7th or 8th pick this year, that likely not a game changer in a below average draft. Then they have to decide whether they trade or keep Conley. If they trade him theres a good chance they are bottom six next year, and then the climb becomes unprotected. Even if they draft a really good player its gonna be a rookie, and with flattened lottery odds you no longer need an absolute bottom 5 team for a very good shot at a top five pick. If they keep Conley then he gets older, risks an injury, and loses value meanwhile they is still no guarantee for them that they'd convey the pick next year, especially given the chance he gets hurt and they still stink. This is why they wnat the pick to convey this year, its gonna be hard for them to rebuild if they have a threat of both being awful and conveying a good pick to us.
Again, this of it this way. The worst but still plausible outcome is the Kings situation where the Grizz give us the 13th or 14th pick either next year or in 2021, that does lose us a couple spots but this draft isnt great and in that area of the draft losing 4 spots isnt a huge drop of in value. And its probably better all else being equal to space out the picks anyway if we are gonna keep them. The best but still plausible outcome is a top five pick in 2021. The value gained between the 9 and say 3rd pick, vs the value lost in 9th to 14th is so much greater that even if you think the overall chance we get the 3rd pick is low, its still the better value play.
I look at it sort of like football. Yeah I know this isn't football, but to trade a pick into the next year is worth a round+. A 1st next year is worth a 2nd this year. A 1st this year is worth a first next year plus a 2nd this year. In the NBA one would think the loss of a year is worth at least 5-10 draft slots. 10th this year is worth a top 5 next year. Now strength of draft is VERY important in the NBA. I understand. Teams want to get better NOW to increase their revenue. Waiting is expensive. 76ers did something very different than usual with all of their "red shirting" to extend their high picks, and striking out on many of them...'
Only problem with this theory is it's not accurate. Let's say we had the 9th pick this year. Wod you trade it for the 1st next year? Yes, you would. Literally everybody would. Same goes for the 2nd, 3rd 4th and 5th picks. You probably have to get down to the 6th pick, at earliest, before the idea of having to wait a year even makes you think about it. The value of top picks is so high relative to mid or late lottery picks, and the artificial constraint of only playing five guys at once so important that a loss of a year itself IS NOT worth 5-10 slots.
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totally disagree. 9th guaranteed is equal to potential top 5 in 2 years at the very least. Really comes down to strength of the respective drafts and contending curve of your team. If you have 1 missing piece now to contend versus long term goal of building from where your team is now. Kings scenario is just as likely if not more so than a team tanking to get a top pick they won't be receiving. Too many teams tank...a team that gave up the pick will not be.
Except that whether a team has its pick or not doesn't usually make all that much difference in terms of how good they are. We just saw this with the nets, they had every incentive not to be a top 5 bad team and yet still gave us two #3 overall picks. Everybody hold up the kings as an example, but they lucked into it, it all came down to Fox making a leap that very few saw coming, he was terrible his rookie year.
The Grizz are is that sort of boat, they are a mess this year and wnat to trade their only really good player while he still has some value. So lets play it out. Lets say the grizz can't get out of the top eight and get the 7th or 8th pick this year, that likely not a game changer in a below average draft. Then they have to decide whether they trade or keep Conley. If they trade him theres a good chance they are bottom six next year, and then the climb becomes unprotected. Even if they draft a really good player its gonna be a rookie, and with flattened lottery odds you no longer need an absolute bottom 5 team for a very good shot at a top five pick. If they keep Conley then he gets older, risks an injury, and loses value meanwhile they is still no guarantee for them that they'd convey the pick next year, especially given the chance he gets hurt and they still stink. This is why they wnat the pick to convey this year, its gonna be hard for them to rebuild if they have a threat of both being awful and conveying a good pick to us.
Again, this of it this way. The worst but still plausible outcome is the Kings situation where the Grizz give us the 13th or 14th pick either next year or in 2021, that does lose us a couple spots but this draft isnt great and in that area of the draft losing 4 spots isnt a huge drop of in value. And its probably better all else being equal to space out the picks anyway if we are gonna keep them. The best but still plausible outcome is a top five pick in 2021. The value gained between the 9 and say 3rd pick, vs the value lost in 9th to 14th is so much greater that even if you think the overall chance we get the 3rd pick is low, its still the better value play.
I look at it sort of like football. Yeah I know this isn't football, but to trade a pick into the next year is worth a round+. A 1st next year is worth a 2nd this year. A 1st this year is worth a first next year plus a 2nd this year. In the NBA one would think the loss of a year is worth at least 5-10 draft slots. 10th this year is worth a top 5 next year. Now strength of draft is VERY important in the NBA. I understand. Teams want to get better NOW to increase their revenue. Waiting is expensive. 76ers did something very different than usual with all of their "red shirting" to extend their high picks, and striking out on many of them...'
Only problem with this theory is it's not accurate. Let's say we had the 9th pick this year. Wod you trade it for the 1st next year? Yes, you would. Literally everybody would. Same goes for the 2nd, 3rd 4th and 5th picks. You probably have to get down to the 6th pick, at earliest, before the idea of having to wait a year even makes you think about it. The value of top picks is so high relative to mid or late lottery picks, and the artificial constraint of only playing five guys at once so important that a loss of a year itself IS NOT worth 5-10 slots. A because this literally isn't football.
It seems to me that the main reason you cannot accept the fact that this pick is more valuable if it conveys this year is that you've convinced yourself it is going to be a top 5 pick in 2021. Sure, there's a chance it might be, but that chance is highly unpredictable right now, and given that it could very reasonably end up worse, a top 10 pick now is just the smarter play (as if it was actually a choice).
The small chance it might be a top 5 pick in a future draft isn't worth more than the guarantee of a top 10 pick now. NBA GM's don't think this way, even if you think they should.
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totally disagree. 9th guaranteed is equal to potential top 5 in 2 years at the very least. Really comes down to strength of the respective drafts and contending curve of your team. If you have 1 missing piece now to contend versus long term goal of building from where your team is now. Kings scenario is just as likely if not more so than a team tanking to get a top pick they won't be receiving. Too many teams tank...a team that gave up the pick will not be.
Except that whether a team has its pick or not doesn't usually make all that much difference in terms of how good they are. We just saw this with the nets, they had every incentive not to be a top 5 bad team and yet still gave us two #3 overall picks. Everybody hold up the kings as an example, but they lucked into it, it all came down to Fox making a leap that very few saw coming, he was terrible his rookie year.
The Grizz are is that sort of boat, they are a mess this year and wnat to trade their only really good player while he still has some value. So lets play it out. Lets say the grizz can't get out of the top eight and get the 7th or 8th pick this year, that likely not a game changer in a below average draft. Then they have to decide whether they trade or keep Conley. If they trade him theres a good chance they are bottom six next year, and then the climb becomes unprotected. Even if they draft a really good player its gonna be a rookie, and with flattened lottery odds you no longer need an absolute bottom 5 team for a very good shot at a top five pick. If they keep Conley then he gets older, risks an injury, and loses value meanwhile they is still no guarantee for them that they'd convey the pick next year, especially given the chance he gets hurt and they still stink. This is why they wnat the pick to convey this year, its gonna be hard for them to rebuild if they have a threat of both being awful and conveying a good pick to us.
Again, this of it this way. The worst but still plausible outcome is the Kings situation where the Grizz give us the 13th or 14th pick either next year or in 2021, that does lose us a couple spots but this draft isnt great and in that area of the draft losing 4 spots isnt a huge drop of in value. And its probably better all else being equal to space out the picks anyway if we are gonna keep them. The best but still plausible outcome is a top five pick in 2021. The value gained between the 9 and say 3rd pick, vs the value lost in 9th to 14th is so much greater that even if you think the overall chance we get the 3rd pick is low, its still the better value play.
I look at it sort of like football. Yeah I know this isn't football, but to trade a pick into the next year is worth a round+. A 1st next year is worth a 2nd this year. A 1st this year is worth a first next year plus a 2nd this year. In the NBA one would think the loss of a year is worth at least 5-10 draft slots. 10th this year is worth a top 5 next year. Now strength of draft is VERY important in the NBA. I understand. Teams want to get better NOW to increase their revenue. Waiting is expensive. 76ers did something very different than usual with all of their "red shirting" to extend their high picks, and striking out on many of them...'
Only problem with this theory is it's not accurate. Let's say we had the 9th pick this year. Wod you trade it for the 1st next year? Yes, you would. Literally everybody would. Same goes for the 2nd, 3rd 4th and 5th picks. You probably have to get down to the 6th pick, at earliest, before the idea of having to wait a year even makes you think about it. The value of top picks is so high relative to mid or late lottery picks, and the artificial constraint of only playing five guys at once so important that a loss of a year itself IS NOT worth 5-10 slots. A because this literally isn't football.
It seems to me that the main reason you cannot accept the fact that this pick is more valuable if it conveys this year is that you've convinced yourself it is going to be a top 5 pick in 2021. Sure, there's a chance it might be, but that chance is highly unpredictable right now, and given that it could very reasonably end up worse, a top 10 pick now is just the smarter play (as if it was actually a choice).
The small chance it might be a top 5 pick in a future draft isn't worth more than the guarantee of a top 10 pick now. NBA GM's don't think this way, even if you think they should.
It’s tough because any discussion of value comes down to the buyer’s assessment. Everything is worth precisely what someone is willing to pay for it. Take Ainge and the lakers/kings pick. He put less value on a lottery pick outside of the top 5 after the impending season than he put on a kings pick two years down the road. That was his assessment at the time. In hindsight, the lakers pick at 10 last year turned out better than the kings pick will this year (in all likelihood)
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totally disagree. 9th guaranteed is equal to potential top 5 in 2 years at the very least. Really comes down to strength of the respective drafts and contending curve of your team. If you have 1 missing piece now to contend versus long term goal of building from where your team is now. Kings scenario is just as likely if not more so than a team tanking to get a top pick they won't be receiving. Too many teams tank...a team that gave up the pick will not be.
JUst my take.
Except that whether a team has its pick or not doesn't usually make all that much difference in terms of how good they are. We just saw this with the nets, they had every incentive not to be a top 5 bad team and yet still gave us two #3 overall picks. Everybody hold up the kings as an example, but they lucked into it, it all came down to Fox making a leap that very few saw coming, he was terrible his rookie year.
The Grizz are is that sort of boat, they are a mess this year and wnat to trade their only really good player while he still has some value. So lets play it out. Lets say the grizz can't get out of the top eight and get the 7th or 8th pick this year, that likely not a game changer in a below average draft. Then they have to decide whether they trade or keep Conley. If they trade him theres a good chance they are bottom six next year, and then the climb becomes unprotected. Even if they draft a really good player its gonna be a rookie, and with flattened lottery odds you no longer need an absolute bottom 5 team for a very good shot at a top five pick. If they keep Conley then he gets older, risks an injury, and loses value meanwhile they is still no guarantee for them that they'd convey the pick next year, especially given the chance he gets hurt and they still stink. This is why they wnat the pick to convey this year, its gonna be hard for them to rebuild if they have a threat of both being awful and conveying a good pick to us.
Again, this of it this way. The worst but still plausible outcome is the Kings situation where the Grizz give us the 13th or 14th pick either next year or in 2021, that does lose us a couple spots but this draft isnt great and in that area of the draft losing 4 spots isnt a huge drop of in value. And its probably better all else being equal to space out the picks anyway if we are gonna keep them. The best but still plausible outcome is a top five pick in 2021. The value gained between the 9 and say 3rd pick, vs the value lost in 9th to 14th is so much greater that even if you think the overall chance we get the 3rd pick is low, its still the better value play.
I look at it sort of like football. Yeah I know this isn't football, but to trade a pick into the next year is worth a round+. A 1st next year is worth a 2nd this year. A 1st this year is worth a first next year plus a 2nd this year. In the NBA one would think the loss of a year is worth at least 5-10 draft slots. 10th this year is worth a top 5 next year. Now strength of draft is VERY important in the NBA. I understand. Teams want to get better NOW to increase their revenue. Waiting is expensive. 76ers did something very different than usual with all of their "red shirting" to extend their high picks, and striking out on many of them...'
thanks for the information above. would you be able to provide a link to the source? or if this is your take, share some of the reasoning and examples that took you to this conclusion.
thanks in advance.
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To me it seems clear that it would benefit us more if the pick did not convey this year. I see the argument that it could potentially be worse either next year or the year after so take the sure thing now, but does anyone really believe that’s happening? Does Memphis look primed to improve in any way that makes this likely?
I don’t see it. In fact, their motivations for wanting the pick to convey this year seem to prove that fact, as they’re looking to rebuild and tank in the coming years and don’t want to have to owe us a higher pick at that point. Hell, the allure of having a potential unprotected first round pick in 2021 alone seems to be more beneficial than number 9 this year, as, come on, we all know that we’re gauging the value of this pick with respect to the Davis trade possibility.
All that being said - one value that getting the pick this year would have is that it would greatly increase our ability to trade up into the top 4-6 of the draft by packing the Memphis, Sacramento, and LAC picks, especially if Atlanta gets Dallas’ pick, too. Adding another top-5 pick of NOLA’s choosing alongside Tatum would help the value of the trade quite a bit.
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totally disagree. 9th guaranteed is equal to potential top 5 in 2 years at the very least. Really comes down to strength of the respective drafts and contending curve of your team. If you have 1 missing piece now to contend versus long term goal of building from where your team is now. Kings scenario is just as likely if not more so than a team tanking to get a top pick they won't be receiving. Too many teams tank...a team that gave up the pick will not be.
Except that whether a team has its pick or not doesn't usually make all that much difference in terms of how good they are. We just saw this with the nets, they had every incentive not to be a top 5 bad team and yet still gave us two #3 overall picks. Everybody hold up the kings as an example, but they lucked into it, it all came down to Fox making a leap that very few saw coming, he was terrible his rookie year.
The Grizz are is that sort of boat, they are a mess this year and wnat to trade their only really good player while he still has some value. So lets play it out. Lets say the grizz can't get out of the top eight and get the 7th or 8th pick this year, that likely not a game changer in a below average draft. Then they have to decide whether they trade or keep Conley. If they trade him theres a good chance they are bottom six next year, and then the climb becomes unprotected. Even if they draft a really good player its gonna be a rookie, and with flattened lottery odds you no longer need an absolute bottom 5 team for a very good shot at a top five pick. If they keep Conley then he gets older, risks an injury, and loses value meanwhile they is still no guarantee for them that they'd convey the pick next year, especially given the chance he gets hurt and they still stink. This is why they wnat the pick to convey this year, its gonna be hard for them to rebuild if they have a threat of both being awful and conveying a good pick to us.
Again, this of it this way. The worst but still plausible outcome is the Kings situation where the Grizz give us the 13th or 14th pick either next year or in 2021, that does lose us a couple spots but this draft isnt great and in that area of the draft losing 4 spots isnt a huge drop of in value. And its probably better all else being equal to space out the picks anyway if we are gonna keep them. The best but still plausible outcome is a top five pick in 2021. The value gained between the 9 and say 3rd pick, vs the value lost in 9th to 14th is so much greater that even if you think the overall chance we get the 3rd pick is low, its still the better value play.
I look at it sort of like football. Yeah I know this isn't football, but to trade a pick into the next year is worth a round+. A 1st next year is worth a 2nd this year. A 1st this year is worth a first next year plus a 2nd this year. In the NBA one would think the loss of a year is worth at least 5-10 draft slots. 10th this year is worth a top 5 next year. Now strength of draft is VERY important in the NBA. I understand. Teams want to get better NOW to increase their revenue. Waiting is expensive. 76ers did something very different than usual with all of their "red shirting" to extend their high picks, and striking out on many of them...'
Only problem with this theory is it's not accurate. Let's say we had the 9th pick this year. Wod you trade it for the 1st next year? Yes, you would. Literally everybody would. Same goes for the 2nd, 3rd 4th and 5th picks. You probably have to get down to the 6th pick, at earliest, before the idea of having to wait a year even makes you think about it. The value of top picks is so high relative to mid or late lottery picks, and the artificial constraint of only playing five guys at once so important that a loss of a year itself IS NOT worth 5-10 slots. A because this literally isn't football.
It seems to me that the main reason you cannot accept the fact that this pick is more valuable if it conveys this year is that you've convinced yourself it is going to be a top 5 pick in 2021. Sure, there's a chance it might be, but that chance is highly unpredictable right now, and given that it could very reasonably end up worse, a top 10 pick now is just the smarter play (as if it was actually a choice).
The small chance it might be a top 5 pick in a future draft isn't worth more than the guarantee of a top 10 pick now. NBA GM's don't think this way, even if you think they should.
On the contrary, I fully recognize that the odds of a top five pick are lower than not. I just think the downside is very low. The grizz aren't making the playoffs the next two years, so worse case we get thev 13th or 14th puck in 2021. The loss of 4-5 spots at the back of the lottery us far less value than the gain of 4-8 spots at the top. Thus even if you believe the top5 outcome is unlikely, it's still the better value play. Winning takes risk. It's a risk. But since top draft picks are more likely to be the 1A type guy you need to win it all you should chase those players whenever you have the chance.
As for your assertion that most GMs take the sure thing I disagree. Hell take the 76ers celtics trade for example. They swapped Tatum/ fultz and acquired a future pick. That pick was the LA 18 pick tha at first was reversed protect to only concert at 2-5 I believe. Ainge could have accepted a lighter protection, say converting at 2-12 or 2-14 to guarantee a pick a year earlier that would have ended up at ten. Instead the 2-5 protection was designed to give us two shots at a pick in the top 5 of the lottery. Ainge was willing to gamble on the SAC pick being a top 5 type pick and take the risk it might end up later than take a sure fire pick in the 6-14 range. He lost the gamble, but it was still the right move. I think we all agree he's a smart gm.
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totally disagree. 9th guaranteed is equal to potential top 5 in 2 years at the very least. Really comes down to strength of the respective drafts and contending curve of your team. If you have 1 missing piece now to contend versus long term goal of building from where your team is now. Kings scenario is just as likely if not more so than a team tanking to get a top pick they won't be receiving. Too many teams tank...a team that gave up the pick will not be.
Except that whether a team has its pick or not doesn't usually make all that much difference in terms of how good they are. We just saw this with the nets, they had every incentive not to be a top 5 bad team and yet still gave us two #3 overall picks. Everybody hold up the kings as an example, but they lucked into it, it all came down to Fox making a leap that very few saw coming, he was terrible his rookie year.
The Grizz are is that sort of boat, they are a mess this year and wnat to trade their only really good player while he still has some value. So lets play it out. Lets say the grizz can't get out of the top eight and get the 7th or 8th pick this year, that likely not a game changer in a below average draft. Then they have to decide whether they trade or keep Conley. If they trade him theres a good chance they are bottom six next year, and then the climb becomes unprotected. Even if they draft a really good player its gonna be a rookie, and with flattened lottery odds you no longer need an absolute bottom 5 team for a very good shot at a top five pick. If they keep Conley then he gets older, risks an injury, and loses value meanwhile they is still no guarantee for them that they'd convey the pick next year, especially given the chance he gets hurt and they still stink. This is why they wnat the pick to convey this year, its gonna be hard for them to rebuild if they have a threat of both being awful and conveying a good pick to us.
Again, this of it this way. The worst but still plausible outcome is the Kings situation where the Grizz give us the 13th or 14th pick either next year or in 2021, that does lose us a couple spots but this draft isnt great and in that area of the draft losing 4 spots isnt a huge drop of in value. And its probably better all else being equal to space out the picks anyway if we are gonna keep them. The best but still plausible outcome is a top five pick in 2021. The value gained between the 9 and say 3rd pick, vs the value lost in 9th to 14th is so much greater that even if you think the overall chance we get the 3rd pick is low, its still the better value play.
I look at it sort of like football. Yeah I know this isn't football, but to trade a pick into the next year is worth a round+. A 1st next year is worth a 2nd this year. A 1st this year is worth a first next year plus a 2nd this year. In the NBA one would think the loss of a year is worth at least 5-10 draft slots. 10th this year is worth a top 5 next year. Now strength of draft is VERY important in the NBA. I understand. Teams want to get better NOW to increase their revenue. Waiting is expensive. 76ers did something very different than usual with all of their "red shirting" to extend their high picks, and striking out on many of them...'
Only problem with this theory is it's not accurate. Let's say we had the 9th pick this year. Wod you trade it for the 1st next year? Yes, you would. Literally everybody would. Same goes for the 2nd, 3rd 4th and 5th picks. You probably have to get down to the 6th pick, at earliest, before the idea of having to wait a year even makes you think about it. The value of top picks is so high relative to mid or late lottery picks, and the artificial constraint of only playing five guys at once so important that a loss of a year itself IS NOT worth 5-10 slots. A because this literally isn't football.
It seems to me that the main reason you cannot accept the fact that this pick is more valuable if it conveys this year is that you've convinced yourself it is going to be a top 5 pick in 2021. Sure, there's a chance it might be, but that chance is highly unpredictable right now, and given that it could very reasonably end up worse, a top 10 pick now is just the smarter play (as if it was actually a choice).
The small chance it might be a top 5 pick in a future draft isn't worth more than the guarantee of a top 10 pick now. NBA GM's don't think this way, even if you think they should.
On the contrary, I fully recognize that the odds of a top five pick are lower than not. I just think the downside is very low. The grizz aren't making the playoffs the next two years, so worse case we get thev 13th or 14th puck in 2021. The loss of 4-5 spots at the back of the lottery us far less value than the gain of 4-8 spots at the top. Thus even if you believe the top5 outcome is unlikely, it's still the better value play. Winning takes risk. It's a risk. But since top draft picks are more likely to be the 1A type guy you need to win it all you should chase those players whenever you have the chance.
As for your assertion that most GMs take the sure thing I disagree. Hell take the 76ers celtics trade for example. They swapped Tatum/ fultz and acquired a future pick. That pick was the LA 18 pick tha at first was reversed protect to only concert at 2-7 I believe. Ainge could have accepted a lighter protection, say converting at 2-12 or 2-14 to guarantee a pick a year earlier that would have ended up at ten. Instead the 2-5 protection was designed to give us two shots at a pick in the top 5 of the lottery. Ainge was willing to gamble on the SAC pick being a top 5-7 type pick and take the risk it might end up later than take a sure fire pick in the 6-14 range. He lost the gamble, but it was still the right move. I think we all agree he's a smart gm.
Next season the memphis pick is top 6 protected. So odds are if it parlays next season pick will be about the same.....in a much weaker draft.
So really the hope you are talking about is that in 2 years time the pick is 4 or 5 spots higher
Waiting 2 years, for a potential 4 or 5 spots, in a completely unknow draft.
Doesnt seem like a good wait to me.
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But outside of the top few picks this draft is widely considered the weakest since 2013. Granted it's not an exact science, and posters tend to fall in love with prospects this time of year, but if we got the 9th pick next year, we'd theoretically have the same pick in a better draft.
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At the time, 2013 like many drafts was panned (2011 and 2009 weren’t all that hyped either, etc.)
However,
10 McCollum 12 Steven Adams 17 Schroder 27 Gobert
All picked in the C’s likely 2019 range
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totally disagree. 9th guaranteed is equal to potential top 5 in 2 years at the very least. Really comes down to strength of the respective drafts and contending curve of your team. If you have 1 missing piece now to contend versus long term goal of building from where your team is now. Kings scenario is just as likely if not more so than a team tanking to get a top pick they won't be receiving. Too many teams tank...a team that gave up the pick will not be.
Except that whether a team has its pick or not doesn't usually make all that much difference in terms of how good they are. We just saw this with the nets, they had every incentive not to be a top 5 bad team and yet still gave us two #3 overall picks. Everybody hold up the kings as an example, but they lucked into it, it all came down to Fox making a leap that very few saw coming, he was terrible his rookie year.
The Grizz are is that sort of boat, they are a mess this year and wnat to trade their only really good player while he still has some value. So lets play it out. Lets say the grizz can't get out of the top eight and get the 7th or 8th pick this year, that likely not a game changer in a below average draft. Then they have to decide whether they trade or keep Conley. If they trade him theres a good chance they are bottom six next year, and then the climb becomes unprotected. Even if they draft a really good player its gonna be a rookie, and with flattened lottery odds you no longer need an absolute bottom 5 team for a very good shot at a top five pick. If they keep Conley then he gets older, risks an injury, and loses value meanwhile they is still no guarantee for them that they'd convey the pick next year, especially given the chance he gets hurt and they still stink. This is why they wnat the pick to convey this year, its gonna be hard for them to rebuild if they have a threat of both being awful and conveying a good pick to us.
Again, this of it this way. The worst but still plausible outcome is the Kings situation where the Grizz give us the 13th or 14th pick either next year or in 2021, that does lose us a couple spots but this draft isnt great and in that area of the draft losing 4 spots isnt a huge drop of in value. And its probably better all else being equal to space out the picks anyway if we are gonna keep them. The best but still plausible outcome is a top five pick in 2021. The value gained between the 9 and say 3rd pick, vs the value lost in 9th to 14th is so much greater that even if you think the overall chance we get the 3rd pick is low, its still the better value play.
I look at it sort of like football. Yeah I know this isn't football, but to trade a pick into the next year is worth a round+. A 1st next year is worth a 2nd this year. A 1st this year is worth a first next year plus a 2nd this year. In the NBA one would think the loss of a year is worth at least 5-10 draft slots. 10th this year is worth a top 5 next year. Now strength of draft is VERY important in the NBA. I understand. Teams want to get better NOW to increase their revenue. Waiting is expensive. 76ers did something very different than usual with all of their "red shirting" to extend their high picks, and striking out on many of them...'
Only problem with this theory is it's not accurate. Let's say we had the 9th pick this year. Wod you trade it for the 1st next year? Yes, you would. Literally everybody would. Same goes for the 2nd, 3rd 4th and 5th picks. You probably have to get down to the 6th pick, at earliest, before the idea of having to wait a year even makes you think about it. The value of top picks is so high relative to mid or late lottery picks, and the artificial constraint of only playing five guys at once so important that a loss of a year itself IS NOT worth 5-10 slots.
That is the point. You aren't trading #9 for a top 5 in 2 years; you are trading #9 for a chance at a top 5 in 2 years. It could also easily be conveyed in 1 year -- #7 at best. I think it is a reasonable argument that some GMs will value the chance of a future top pick higher than the certainty of #9 in the current draft, but I think we are talking about something that is, at best, uncertain. That is, uncertain that the value either goes up or down in the eyes of GMs if it conveys this year at 9.
If Memphis doesn't convey this year or next, we know that the Griz have added a top 8 pick this year and a top 6 pick next year. And... they will have plenty of cap space and plenty of reason not to tank in 20-21.
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Conley doubtful again (is he even going to play again this season?) and Doncic ruled out (same goes for him)
Must-lose game if you don’t want pick to convey
looks like your going to get your wish
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Conley doubtful again (is he even going to play again this season?) and Doncic ruled out (same goes for him)
Must-lose game if you don’t want pick to convey
looks like your going to get your wish
Memphis is up 56-52 at halftime of today’s game
More like G league showcase
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Dallas won 129-127 in OT.
#6-9 worst teams are all 32-48 atm
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totally disagree. 9th guaranteed is equal to potential top 5 in 2 years at the very least. Really comes down to strength of the respective drafts and contending curve of your team. If you have 1 missing piece now to contend versus long term goal of building from where your team is now. Kings scenario is just as likely if not more so than a team tanking to get a top pick they won't be receiving. Too many teams tank...a team that gave up the pick will not be.
Except that whether a team has its pick or not doesn't usually make all that much difference in terms of how good they are. We just saw this with the nets, they had every incentive not to be a top 5 bad team and yet still gave us two #3 overall picks. Everybody hold up the kings as an example, but they lucked into it, it all came down to Fox making a leap that very few saw coming, he was terrible his rookie year.
The Grizz are is that sort of boat, they are a mess this year and wnat to trade their only really good player while he still has some value. So lets play it out. Lets say the grizz can't get out of the top eight and get the 7th or 8th pick this year, that likely not a game changer in a below average draft. Then they have to decide whether they trade or keep Conley. If they trade him theres a good chance they are bottom six next year, and then the climb becomes unprotected. Even if they draft a really good player its gonna be a rookie, and with flattened lottery odds you no longer need an absolute bottom 5 team for a very good shot at a top five pick. If they keep Conley then he gets older, risks an injury, and loses value meanwhile they is still no guarantee for them that they'd convey the pick next year, especially given the chance he gets hurt and they still stink. This is why they wnat the pick to convey this year, its gonna be hard for them to rebuild if they have a threat of both being awful and conveying a good pick to us.
Again, this of it this way. The worst but still plausible outcome is the Kings situation where the Grizz give us the 13th or 14th pick either next year or in 2021, that does lose us a couple spots but this draft isnt great and in that area of the draft losing 4 spots isnt a huge drop of in value. And its probably better all else being equal to space out the picks anyway if we are gonna keep them. The best but still plausible outcome is a top five pick in 2021. The value gained between the 9 and say 3rd pick, vs the value lost in 9th to 14th is so much greater that even if you think the overall chance we get the 3rd pick is low, its still the better value play.
I look at it sort of like football. Yeah I know this isn't football, but to trade a pick into the next year is worth a round+. A 1st next year is worth a 2nd this year. A 1st this year is worth a first next year plus a 2nd this year. In the NBA one would think the loss of a year is worth at least 5-10 draft slots. 10th this year is worth a top 5 next year. Now strength of draft is VERY important in the NBA. I understand. Teams want to get better NOW to increase their revenue. Waiting is expensive. 76ers did something very different than usual with all of their "red shirting" to extend their high picks, and striking out on many of them...'
Only problem with this theory is it's not accurate. Let's say we had the 9th pick this year. Wod you trade it for the 1st next year? Yes, you would. Literally everybody would. Same goes for the 2nd, 3rd 4th and 5th picks. You probably have to get down to the 6th pick, at earliest, before the idea of having to wait a year even makes you think about it. The value of top picks is so high relative to mid or late lottery picks, and the artificial constraint of only playing five guys at once so important that a loss of a year itself IS NOT worth 5-10 slots.
That is the point. You aren't trading #9 for a top 5 in 2 years; you are trading #9 for a chance at a top 5 in 2 years. It could also easily be conveyed in 1 year -- #7 at best. I think it is a reasonable argument that some GMs will value the chance of a future top pick higher than the certainty of #9 in the current draft, but I think we are talking about something that is, at best, uncertain. That is, uncertain that the value either goes up or down in the eyes of GMs if it conveys this year at 9.
If Memphis doesn't convey this year or next, we know that the Griz have added a top 8 pick this year and a top 6 pick next year. And... they will have plenty of cap space and plenty of reason not to tank in 20-21.
My post was in response to the previous poster who said one year of waiting for a pick was worth 5-10 draft slots. My point was it is not. That's why I said you would clearly trade 9 for 1-5 a year later.
I fully understand that you are only trading for a chance at top 5, I just think the risk is worth it.
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Memphis will win the next 2 games
Surprised they found a way to lose this one honestly...but with jonas having a sprined ankle certainly hurt them.
Dorsey
Wright
Holiday
JJJ
Jonas
Is a talented hungry team with alot to prove. That pick will get worse the longer is stays with memphis.
Luckily they will still finish 9th and be a salaried asset is a trade for ad.
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Will be interesting to see what danny does if this one conveys
He has quite the eye when drafting at the high end of the draft
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Will be interesting to see what danny does if this one conveys
He has quite the eye when drafting at the high end of the draft
I hope Rui Hachimura is there at 9.
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Well with the regular seaosn ending Wednesdya here is the state of the race for 6-9 positions pre lottery. MEM is at DET Tuesday with DET fighting for the playoofs still. Their last game is GSW who already has the one seed locked up. NOP plays the GSW's on tuesday as well. DAL is at home vs PHO which they should probably win, then on the road vs SAS who are still gonna likely be trying to avoid the 8th seed and a GSW matchup in the first round. WAS has their tueday home game against BOS where BOS will be retsing their guys.
NOP 33-48, Vs GSW Tuesday
MEM 32-48, At DET Tuesday, Vs GSW Wednesday
DAL 32-48, VS PHO Tuesday, At SAS Wednesday
WAS 32-49, VS BOS Tuesday
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totally disagree. 9th guaranteed is equal to potential top 5 in 2 years at the very least. Really comes down to strength of the respective drafts and contending curve of your team. If you have 1 missing piece now to contend versus long term goal of building from where your team is now. Kings scenario is just as likely if not more so than a team tanking to get a top pick they won't be receiving. Too many teams tank...a team that gave up the pick will not be.
Except that whether a team has its pick or not doesn't usually make all that much difference in terms of how good they are. We just saw this with the nets, they had every incentive not to be a top 5 bad team and yet still gave us two #3 overall picks. Everybody hold up the kings as an example, but they lucked into it, it all came down to Fox making a leap that very few saw coming, he was terrible his rookie year.
The Grizz are is that sort of boat, they are a mess this year and wnat to trade their only really good player while he still has some value. So lets play it out. Lets say the grizz can't get out of the top eight and get the 7th or 8th pick this year, that likely not a game changer in a below average draft. Then they have to decide whether they trade or keep Conley. If they trade him theres a good chance they are bottom six next year, and then the climb becomes unprotected. Even if they draft a really good player its gonna be a rookie, and with flattened lottery odds you no longer need an absolute bottom 5 team for a very good shot at a top five pick. If they keep Conley then he gets older, risks an injury, and loses value meanwhile they is still no guarantee for them that they'd convey the pick next year, especially given the chance he gets hurt and they still stink. This is why they wnat the pick to convey this year, its gonna be hard for them to rebuild if they have a threat of both being awful and conveying a good pick to us.
Again, this of it this way. The worst but still plausible outcome is the Kings situation where the Grizz give us the 13th or 14th pick either next year or in 2021, that does lose us a couple spots but this draft isnt great and in that area of the draft losing 4 spots isnt a huge drop of in value. And its probably better all else being equal to space out the picks anyway if we are gonna keep them. The best but still plausible outcome is a top five pick in 2021. The value gained between the 9 and say 3rd pick, vs the value lost in 9th to 14th is so much greater that even if you think the overall chance we get the 3rd pick is low, its still the better value play.
I look at it sort of like football. Yeah I know this isn't football, but to trade a pick into the next year is worth a round+. A 1st next year is worth a 2nd this year. A 1st this year is worth a first next year plus a 2nd this year. In the NBA one would think the loss of a year is worth at least 5-10 draft slots. 10th this year is worth a top 5 next year. Now strength of draft is VERY important in the NBA. I understand. Teams want to get better NOW to increase their revenue. Waiting is expensive. 76ers did something very different than usual with all of their "red shirting" to extend their high picks, and striking out on many of them...'
Only problem with this theory is it's not accurate. Let's say we had the 9th pick this year. Wod you trade it for the 1st next year? Yes, you would. Literally everybody would. Same goes for the 2nd, 3rd 4th and 5th picks. You probably have to get down to the 6th pick, at earliest, before the idea of having to wait a year even makes you think about it. The value of top picks is so high relative to mid or late lottery picks, and the artificial constraint of only playing five guys at once so important that a loss of a year itself IS NOT worth 5-10 slots.
That is the point. You aren't trading #9 for a top 5 in 2 years; you are trading #9 for a chance at a top 5 in 2 years. It could also easily be conveyed in 1 year -- #7 at best. I think it is a reasonable argument that some GMs will value the chance of a future top pick higher than the certainty of #9 in the current draft, but I think we are talking about something that is, at best, uncertain. That is, uncertain that the value either goes up or down in the eyes of GMs if it conveys this year at 9.
If Memphis doesn't convey this year or next, we know that the Griz have added a top 8 pick this year and a top 6 pick next year. And... they will have plenty of cap space and plenty of reason not to tank in 20-21.
My post was in response to the previous poster who said one year of waiting for a pick was worth 5-10 draft slots. My point was it is not. That's why I said you would clearly trade 9 for 1-5 a year later.
I fully understand that you are only trading for a chance at top 5, I just think the risk is worth it.
And so does nearly every GM, which is why the lottery consists of nearly all freshman and 19 year old international players, year after year.
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Memphis will win the next 2 games
Surprised they found a way to lose this one honestly...but with jonas having a sprined ankle certainly hurt them.
Dorsey
Wright
Holiday
JJJ
Jonas
Is a talented hungry team with alot to prove. That pick will get worse the longer is stays with memphis.
Luckily they will still finish 9th and be a salaried asset is a trade for ad.
You've stated a lot of opinions as fact throughout this thread. I'll bet you $100 that Memphis doesn't win the next 2 games. Care to put your money where your mouth is?
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totally disagree. 9th guaranteed is equal to potential top 5 in 2 years at the very least. Really comes down to strength of the respective drafts and contending curve of your team. If you have 1 missing piece now to contend versus long term goal of building from where your team is now. Kings scenario is just as likely if not more so than a team tanking to get a top pick they won't be receiving. Too many teams tank...a team that gave up the pick will not be.
Except that whether a team has its pick or not doesn't usually make all that much difference in terms of how good they are. We just saw this with the nets, they had every incentive not to be a top 5 bad team and yet still gave us two #3 overall picks. Everybody hold up the kings as an example, but they lucked into it, it all came down to Fox making a leap that very few saw coming, he was terrible his rookie year.
The Grizz are is that sort of boat, they are a mess this year and wnat to trade their only really good player while he still has some value. So lets play it out. Lets say the grizz can't get out of the top eight and get the 7th or 8th pick this year, that likely not a game changer in a below average draft. Then they have to decide whether they trade or keep Conley. If they trade him theres a good chance they are bottom six next year, and then the climb becomes unprotected. Even if they draft a really good player its gonna be a rookie, and with flattened lottery odds you no longer need an absolute bottom 5 team for a very good shot at a top five pick. If they keep Conley then he gets older, risks an injury, and loses value meanwhile they is still no guarantee for them that they'd convey the pick next year, especially given the chance he gets hurt and they still stink. This is why they wnat the pick to convey this year, its gonna be hard for them to rebuild if they have a threat of both being awful and conveying a good pick to us.
Again, this of it this way. The worst but still plausible outcome is the Kings situation where the Grizz give us the 13th or 14th pick either next year or in 2021, that does lose us a couple spots but this draft isnt great and in that area of the draft losing 4 spots isnt a huge drop of in value. And its probably better all else being equal to space out the picks anyway if we are gonna keep them. The best but still plausible outcome is a top five pick in 2021. The value gained between the 9 and say 3rd pick, vs the value lost in 9th to 14th is so much greater that even if you think the overall chance we get the 3rd pick is low, its still the better value play.
I look at it sort of like football. Yeah I know this isn't football, but to trade a pick into the next year is worth a round+. A 1st next year is worth a 2nd this year. A 1st this year is worth a first next year plus a 2nd this year. In the NBA one would think the loss of a year is worth at least 5-10 draft slots. 10th this year is worth a top 5 next year. Now strength of draft is VERY important in the NBA. I understand. Teams want to get better NOW to increase their revenue. Waiting is expensive. 76ers did something very different than usual with all of their "red shirting" to extend their high picks, and striking out on many of them...'
Only problem with this theory is it's not accurate. Let's say we had the 9th pick this year. Wod you trade it for the 1st next year? Yes, you would. Literally everybody would. Same goes for the 2nd, 3rd 4th and 5th picks. You probably have to get down to the 6th pick, at earliest, before the idea of having to wait a year even makes you think about it. The value of top picks is so high relative to mid or late lottery picks, and the artificial constraint of only playing five guys at once so important that a loss of a year itself IS NOT worth 5-10 slots.
That is the point. You aren't trading #9 for a top 5 in 2 years; you are trading #9 for a chance at a top 5 in 2 years. It could also easily be conveyed in 1 year -- #7 at best. I think it is a reasonable argument that some GMs will value the chance of a future top pick higher than the certainty of #9 in the current draft, but I think we are talking about something that is, at best, uncertain. That is, uncertain that the value either goes up or down in the eyes of GMs if it conveys this year at 9.
If Memphis doesn't convey this year or next, we know that the Griz have added a top 8 pick this year and a top 6 pick next year. And... they will have plenty of cap space and plenty of reason not to tank in 20-21.
My post was in response to the previous poster who said one year of waiting for a pick was worth 5-10 draft slots. My point was it is not. That's why I said you would clearly trade 9 for 1-5 a year later.
I fully understand that you are only trading for a chance at top 5, I just think the risk is worth it.
I understand that is your opinion. I just disagree. When a team has no incentive to tank, while others have incentive TO tank, the odds of getting those high picks are less. It almost takes injury to already bad teams to get into those top picks for a team with no incentive to tank. Drafts being roughly equal in quality...I'll take the "money" now and start making "interest".
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Its not that the expected value of the pick is much greater next year rather than this year. Its that it has potential they can sell AND it gives the C's asset diversity.
They already have 3 picks this draft, better to have another in the next two years than a fourth pick this year. Both if they end up keeping it or in a trade.
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Its not that the expected value of the pick is much greater next year rather than this year. Its that it has potential they can sell AND it gives the C's asset diversity.
They already have 3 picks this draft, better to have another in the next two years than a fourth pick this year. Both if they end up keeping it or in a trade.
For Bostons sake, it is better to have it parlay now. (talking Davis Trade here)
That pick signed at 120% equals about 3.7 mill in salary.
Add that to pick 14 and 20 and we are talking a little over 9 mill in salary.
Add that to Yabusele and tatum and now we are close enough that a trade for a non trade kicker Davis works.
Basically that picks salary saves having trade 1 of Brown or Smart....OR.... it saves the financial headache of finding a way to work a Rozier s&T with a third team to protect those 2 assets.
Basically for Boston that 9th pick equals keeping Brown and Smart as opposed to losing 1 of them.
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Memphis will win the next 2 games
Surprised they found a way to lose this one honestly...but with jonas having a sprined ankle certainly hurt them.
Dorsey
Wright
Holiday
JJJ
Jonas
Is a talented hungry team with alot to prove. That pick will get worse the longer is stays with memphis.
Luckily they will still finish 9th and be a salaried asset is a trade for ad.
You've stated a lot of opinions as fact throughout this thread. I'll bet you $100 that Memphis doesn't win the next 2 games. Care to put your money where your mouth is?
betting is moronic. so No.
I will be shocked if they lose those either of those 2 games. They want to win both those games, losing Jonas to injury hurts them alot, but they will leave everything on the court.
If you disagree, perhaps substantiate your claims instead of trying to goad me into a `bet`
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Its not that the expected value of the pick is much greater next year rather than this year. Its that it has potential they can sell AND it gives the C's asset diversity.
They already have 3 picks this draft, better to have another in the next two years than a fourth pick this year. Both if they end up keeping it or in a trade.
For Bostons sake, it is better to have it parlay now. (talking Davis Trade here)
That pick signed at 120% equals about 3.7 mill in salary.
Add that to pick 14 and 20 and we are talking a little over 9 mill in salary.
Add that to Yabusele and tatum and now we are close enough that a trade for a non trade kicker Davis works.
Basically that picks salary saves having trade 1 of Brown or Smart....OR.... it saves the financial headache of finding a way to work a Rozier s&T with a third team to protect those 2 assets.
Basically for Boston that 9th pick equals keeping Brown and Smart as opposed to losing 1 of them.
As an aside your numbers are for this year's rookie scale, next years are different. (about 20% higher)
You are wrong about the pick not conveying meaning that Brown/Smart has to be in the deal for salary purposes. The C's can do what Houston did and sign a bunch of small salaried players, or just sign one player to a bigger deal to make the gap up. If those players are in the deal its because NOP wanted them.
Boston's front office who is much more familiar with the salary math than either you or I would greatly prefer the pick NOT convey this year. This is based on multiple sourced beat reporters and national guys. (Himmelsbach/Lowe/etc)
https://twitter.com/AdamHimmelsbach/status/1115108868311457794
If the pick is more valuable rolled over, then they can potentially include less talent and more salary make weight in any potential deal.
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Memphis will win the next 2 games
Surprised they found a way to lose this one honestly...but with jonas having a sprined ankle certainly hurt them.
Dorsey
Wright
Holiday
JJJ
Jonas
Is a talented hungry team with alot to prove. That pick will get worse the longer is stays with memphis.
Luckily they will still finish 9th and be a salaried asset is a trade for ad.
You've stated a lot of opinions as fact throughout this thread. I'll bet you $100 that Memphis doesn't win the next 2 games. Care to put your money where your mouth is?
betting is moronic. so No.
I will be shocked if they lose those either of those 2 games. They want to win both those games, losing Jonas to injury hurts them alot, but they will leave everything on the court.
If you disagree, perhaps substantiate your claims instead of trying to goad me into a `bet`
For you, yes, it would be.
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Its not that the expected value of the pick is much greater next year rather than this year. Its that it has potential they can sell AND it gives the C's asset diversity.
They already have 3 picks this draft, better to have another in the next two years than a fourth pick this year. Both if they end up keeping it or in a trade.
For Bostons sake, it is better to have it parlay now. (talking Davis Trade here)
That pick signed at 120% equals about 3.7 mill in salary.
Add that to pick 14 and 20 and we are talking a little over 9 mill in salary.
Add that to Yabusele and tatum and now we are close enough that a trade for a non trade kicker Davis works.
Basically that picks salary saves having trade 1 of Brown or Smart....OR.... it saves the financial headache of finding a way to work a Rozier s&T with a third team to protect those 2 assets.
Basically for Boston that 9th pick equals keeping Brown and Smart as opposed to losing 1 of them.
As an aside your numbers are for this year's rookie scale, next years are different. (about 20% higher)
You are wrong about the pick not conveying meaning that Brown/Smart has to be in the deal for salary purposes. The C's can do what Houston did and sign a bunch of small salaried players, or just sign one player to a bigger deal to make the gap up. If those players are in the deal its because NOP wanted them.
Boston's front office who is much more familiar with the salary math than either you or I would greatly prefer the pick NOT convey this year. This is based on multiple sourced beat reporters and national guys. (Himmelsbach/Lowe/etc)
https://twitter.com/AdamHimmelsbach/status/1115108868311457794
If the pick is more valuable rolled over, then they can potentially include less talent and more salary make weight in any potential deal.
I did not think it was at all possible for the team to sign players then flip them over to the pels.
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Its not that the expected value of the pick is much greater next year rather than this year. Its that it has potential they can sell AND it gives the C's asset diversity.
They already have 3 picks this draft, better to have another in the next two years than a fourth pick this year. Both if they end up keeping it or in a trade.
For Bostons sake, it is better to have it parlay now. (talking Davis Trade here)
That pick signed at 120% equals about 3.7 mill in salary.
Add that to pick 14 and 20 and we are talking a little over 9 mill in salary.
Add that to Yabusele and tatum and now we are close enough that a trade for a non trade kicker Davis works.
Basically that picks salary saves having trade 1 of Brown or Smart....OR.... it saves the financial headache of finding a way to work a Rozier s&T with a third team to protect those 2 assets.
Basically for Boston that 9th pick equals keeping Brown and Smart as opposed to losing 1 of them.
As an aside your numbers are for this year's rookie scale, next years are different. (about 20% higher)
You are wrong about the pick not conveying meaning that Brown/Smart has to be in the deal for salary purposes. The C's can do what Houston did and sign a bunch of small salaried players, or just sign one player to a bigger deal to make the gap up. If those players are in the deal its because NOP wanted them.
Boston's front office who is much more familiar with the salary math than either you or I would greatly prefer the pick NOT convey this year. This is based on multiple sourced beat reporters and national guys. (Himmelsbach/Lowe/etc)
https://twitter.com/AdamHimmelsbach/status/1115108868311457794
If the pick is more valuable rolled over, then they can potentially include less talent and more salary make weight in any potential deal.
I did not think it was at all possible for the team to sign players then flip them over to the pels.
30 days after you sign a draft pick you can trade them. The most recent higher profile such trade was Love to the Cavs involving Wiggins.
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Its not that the expected value of the pick is much greater next year rather than this year. Its that it has potential they can sell AND it gives the C's asset diversity.
They already have 3 picks this draft, better to have another in the next two years than a fourth pick this year. Both if they end up keeping it or in a trade.
For Bostons sake, it is better to have it parlay now. (talking Davis Trade here)
That pick signed at 120% equals about 3.7 mill in salary.
Add that to pick 14 and 20 and we are talking a little over 9 mill in salary.
Add that to Yabusele and tatum and now we are close enough that a trade for a non trade kicker Davis works.
Basically that picks salary saves having trade 1 of Brown or Smart....OR.... it saves the financial headache of finding a way to work a Rozier s&T with a third team to protect those 2 assets.
Basically for Boston that 9th pick equals keeping Brown and Smart as opposed to losing 1 of them.
As an aside your numbers are for this year's rookie scale, next years are different. (about 20% higher)
You are wrong about the pick not conveying meaning that Brown/Smart has to be in the deal for salary purposes. The C's can do what Houston did and sign a bunch of small salaried players, or just sign one player to a bigger deal to make the gap up. If those players are in the deal its because NOP wanted them.
Boston's front office who is much more familiar with the salary math than either you or I would greatly prefer the pick NOT convey this year. This is based on multiple sourced beat reporters and national guys. (Himmelsbach/Lowe/etc)
https://twitter.com/AdamHimmelsbach/status/1115108868311457794
If the pick is more valuable rolled over, then they can potentially include less talent and more salary make weight in any potential deal.
To build on this, between picks 14, 20 and 22 at the 120% f the rook scale would be around 8.5 Million in salary. Tatum, Yabu, Williams would come out to almost 13. So already you are right at or juts shy of the 21.6 you would need to trade for Davis. The extra money this pick provides for cap filler is worth almost nothing in a trade, we just dont need it to make it work. And that assuming we having enough in the trade without Brown or Smart to get it done anyway, this pick conveying this year loses value and actually makes it MORE likely we have to include Brown or Smart to make up that value.
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Memphis will win the next 2 games
Surprised they found a way to lose this one honestly...but with jonas having a sprined ankle certainly hurt them.
Dorsey
Wright
Holiday
JJJ
Jonas
Is a talented hungry team with alot to prove. That pick will get worse the longer is stays with memphis.
Luckily they will still finish 9th and be a salaried asset is a trade for ad.
You've stated a lot of opinions as fact throughout this thread. I'll bet you $100 that Memphis doesn't win the next 2 games. Care to put your money where your mouth is?
betting is moronic. so No.
I will be shocked if they lose those either of those 2 games. They want to win both those games, losing Jonas to injury hurts them alot, but they will leave everything on the court.
If you disagree, perhaps substantiate your claims instead of trying to goad me into a `bet`
Well man they just lost to Dallas at home who is trying more than just about anybody in the league to lose right now. I don't think it would be shocking to lose on the road against Detroit who is fighting for their playoff lives.
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Its not that the expected value of the pick is much greater next year rather than this year. Its that it has potential they can sell AND it gives the C's asset diversity.
They already have 3 picks this draft, better to have another in the next two years than a fourth pick this year. Both if they end up keeping it or in a trade.
For Bostons sake, it is better to have it parlay now. (talking Davis Trade here)
That pick signed at 120% equals about 3.7 mill in salary.
Add that to pick 14 and 20 and we are talking a little over 9 mill in salary.
Add that to Yabusele and tatum and now we are close enough that a trade for a non trade kicker Davis works.
Basically that picks salary saves having trade 1 of Brown or Smart....OR.... it saves the financial headache of finding a way to work a Rozier s&T with a third team to protect those 2 assets.
Basically for Boston that 9th pick equals keeping Brown and Smart as opposed to losing 1 of them.
As an aside your numbers are for this year's rookie scale, next years are different. (about 20% higher)
You are wrong about the pick not conveying meaning that Brown/Smart has to be in the deal for salary purposes. The C's can do what Houston did and sign a bunch of small salaried players, or just sign one player to a bigger deal to make the gap up. If those players are in the deal its because NOP wanted them.
Boston's front office who is much more familiar with the salary math than either you or I would greatly prefer the pick NOT convey this year. This is based on multiple sourced beat reporters and national guys. (Himmelsbach/Lowe/etc)
https://twitter.com/AdamHimmelsbach/status/1115108868311457794
If the pick is more valuable rolled over, then they can potentially include less talent and more salary make weight in any potential deal.
To build on this, between picks 14, 20 and 22 at the 120% f the rook scale would be around 8.5 Million in salary. Tatum, Yabu, Williams would come out to almost 13. So already you are right at or juts shy of the 21.6 you would need to trade for Davis. The extra money this pick provides for cap filler is worth almost nothing in a trade, we just dont need it to make it work. And that assuming we having enough in the trade without Brown or Smart to get it done anyway, this pick conveying this year loses value and actually makes it MORE likely we have to include Brown or Smart to make up that value.
only if New Orleans thinks it has less value, which contrary to you assertions in this thread is far from a given.
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Seems really complicated for the Cs to come to an agreement re four players we are going to pick for the Pels on draft day, then ink a trade for AD a month later. And, do they really want four picks, all signed for 120% of rookie scale? Would be a really strange trade; wonder if anything like it has happened before.
Sadly, I’m getting used to the idea that Smart or Brown might be included just to make the salaries work.
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Its not that the expected value of the pick is much greater next year rather than this year. Its that it has potential they can sell AND it gives the C's asset diversity.
They already have 3 picks this draft, better to have another in the next two years than a fourth pick this year. Both if they end up keeping it or in a trade.
For Bostons sake, it is better to have it parlay now. (talking Davis Trade here)
That pick signed at 120% equals about 3.7 mill in salary.
Add that to pick 14 and 20 and we are talking a little over 9 mill in salary.
Add that to Yabusele and tatum and now we are close enough that a trade for a non trade kicker Davis works.
Basically that picks salary saves having trade 1 of Brown or Smart....OR.... it saves the financial headache of finding a way to work a Rozier s&T with a third team to protect those 2 assets.
Basically for Boston that 9th pick equals keeping Brown and Smart as opposed to losing 1 of them.
As an aside your numbers are for this year's rookie scale, next years are different. (about 20% higher)
You are wrong about the pick not conveying meaning that Brown/Smart has to be in the deal for salary purposes. The C's can do what Houston did and sign a bunch of small salaried players, or just sign one player to a bigger deal to make the gap up. If those players are in the deal its because NOP wanted them.
Boston's front office who is much more familiar with the salary math than either you or I would greatly prefer the pick NOT convey this year. This is based on multiple sourced beat reporters and national guys. (Himmelsbach/Lowe/etc)
https://twitter.com/AdamHimmelsbach/status/1115108868311457794
If the pick is more valuable rolled over, then they can potentially include less talent and more salary make weight in any potential deal.
To build on this, between picks 14, 20 and 22 at the 120% f the rook scale would be around 8.5 Million in salary. Tatum, Yabu, Williams would come out to almost 13. So already you are right at or juts shy of the 21.6 you would need to trade for Davis. The extra money this pick provides for cap filler is worth almost nothing in a trade, we just dont need it to make it work. And that assuming we having enough in the trade without Brown or Smart to get it done anyway, this pick conveying this year loses value and actually makes it MORE likely we have to include Brown or Smart to make up that value.
only if New Orleans thinks it has less value, which contrary to you assertions in this thread is far from a given.
Fair enough. I know that MEM does want it to convey, and BOS does not. I would think if it where more valuable at 9 BOS would want it to convey. So I'm pretty confident in that assertion.
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Its not that the expected value of the pick is much greater next year rather than this year. Its that it has potential they can sell AND it gives the C's asset diversity.
They already have 3 picks this draft, better to have another in the next two years than a fourth pick this year. Both if they end up keeping it or in a trade.
For Bostons sake, it is better to have it parlay now. (talking Davis Trade here)
That pick signed at 120% equals about 3.7 mill in salary.
Add that to pick 14 and 20 and we are talking a little over 9 mill in salary.
Add that to Yabusele and tatum and now we are close enough that a trade for a non trade kicker Davis works.
Basically that picks salary saves having trade 1 of Brown or Smart....OR.... it saves the financial headache of finding a way to work a Rozier s&T with a third team to protect those 2 assets.
Basically for Boston that 9th pick equals keeping Brown and Smart as opposed to losing 1 of them.
As an aside your numbers are for this year's rookie scale, next years are different. (about 20% higher)
You are wrong about the pick not conveying meaning that Brown/Smart has to be in the deal for salary purposes. The C's can do what Houston did and sign a bunch of small salaried players, or just sign one player to a bigger deal to make the gap up. If those players are in the deal its because NOP wanted them.
Boston's front office who is much more familiar with the salary math than either you or I would greatly prefer the pick NOT convey this year. This is based on multiple sourced beat reporters and national guys. (Himmelsbach/Lowe/etc)
https://twitter.com/AdamHimmelsbach/status/1115108868311457794
If the pick is more valuable rolled over, then they can potentially include less talent and more salary make weight in any potential deal.
I did not think it was at all possible for the team to sign players then flip them over to the pels.
30 days after you sign a draft pick you can trade them. The most recent higher profile such trade was Love to the Cavs involving Wiggins.
Yes, but Fafnir was suggesting signing non draft picks and including them in the trade, I thought it was a 3 month wait in order to include trading a newly signed player with any other salaries.
Unless structured as some sort of sign and trade, which then would bring a new set of rules into affect.
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We could use our taxpayer mid level exception to sign a second round pick or an undrafted rookie to a large one-year deal and then trade their salary after 30 days to match salaries. We should be keeping our second rounder because it is protected #31-55.
According to this CBA guide, "second round picks do not have any specific salary restrictions. They may sign for any amount from the minimum to the maximum...it is not uncommon for teams to use a portion of their Mid-Level exception in order to sign the player for three seasons."
http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q82
So I'm pretty sure we can use the full $5.6MLE to sign a rookie and then trade him a month later.
We can also exercise Semi's team option for $1.6M and add him to a trade. So our MLE + Semi adds an additional $7.2 in matching salary.
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Unless structured as some sort of sign and trade, which then would bring a new set of rules into affect.
There is a three month wait but that isn't prohibitive given that they could be signed at a date where the three months would line up when a potential draft picks 30 day wait period would occur. (you can sign players during the playoffs or after they are over)
The rockets method of trading for a bunch of minimum deals to leverage the aggregate creatively is the other option to add salary ballast.
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Its not that the expected value of the pick is much greater next year rather than this year. Its that it has potential they can sell AND it gives the C's asset diversity.
They already have 3 picks this draft, better to have another in the next two years than a fourth pick this year. Both if they end up keeping it or in a trade.
For Bostons sake, it is better to have it parlay now. (talking Davis Trade here)
That pick signed at 120% equals about 3.7 mill in salary.
Add that to pick 14 and 20 and we are talking a little over 9 mill in salary.
Add that to Yabusele and tatum and now we are close enough that a trade for a non trade kicker Davis works.
Basically that picks salary saves having trade 1 of Brown or Smart....OR.... it saves the financial headache of finding a way to work a Rozier s&T with a third team to protect those 2 assets.
Basically for Boston that 9th pick equals keeping Brown and Smart as opposed to losing 1 of them.
As an aside your numbers are for this year's rookie scale, next years are different. (about 20% higher)
You are wrong about the pick not conveying meaning that Brown/Smart has to be in the deal for salary purposes. The C's can do what Houston did and sign a bunch of small salaried players, or just sign one player to a bigger deal to make the gap up. If those players are in the deal its because NOP wanted them.
Boston's front office who is much more familiar with the salary math than either you or I would greatly prefer the pick NOT convey this year. This is based on multiple sourced beat reporters and national guys. (Himmelsbach/Lowe/etc)
https://twitter.com/AdamHimmelsbach/status/1115108868311457794
If the pick is more valuable rolled over, then they can potentially include less talent and more salary make weight in any potential deal.
To build on this, between picks 14, 20 and 22 at the 120% f the rook scale would be around 8.5 Million in salary. Tatum, Yabu, Williams would come out to almost 13. So already you are right at or juts shy of the 21.6 you would need to trade for Davis. The extra money this pick provides for cap filler is worth almost nothing in a trade, we just dont need it to make it work. And that assuming we having enough in the trade without Brown or Smart to get it done anyway, this pick conveying this year loses value and actually makes it MORE likely we have to include Brown or Smart to make up that value.
only if New Orleans thinks it has less value, which contrary to you assertions in this thread is far from a given.
Fair enough. I know that MEM does want it to convey, and BOS does not. I would think if it where more valuable at 9 BOS would want it to convey. So I'm pretty confident in that assertion.
How do you know Boston doesn't want it to convey? And Memphis wanting it to convey doesn't mean what you think it means.
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Unless structured as some sort of sign and trade, which then would bring a new set of rules into affect.
There is a three month wait but that isn't prohibitive given that they could be signed at a date where the three months would line up when a potential draft picks 30 day wait period would occur. (you can sign players during the playoffs or after they are over)
The rockets method of trading for a bunch of minimum deals to leverage the aggregate creatively is the other option to add salary ballast.
That would need to happen within the next 2 weeks...ish...
And I dont see anything on the market that is a good player enough for Pelicans to actually want.
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Its not that the expected value of the pick is much greater next year rather than this year. Its that it has potential they can sell AND it gives the C's asset diversity.
They already have 3 picks this draft, better to have another in the next two years than a fourth pick this year. Both if they end up keeping it or in a trade.
For Bostons sake, it is better to have it parlay now. (talking Davis Trade here)
That pick signed at 120% equals about 3.7 mill in salary.
Add that to pick 14 and 20 and we are talking a little over 9 mill in salary.
Add that to Yabusele and tatum and now we are close enough that a trade for a non trade kicker Davis works.
Basically that picks salary saves having trade 1 of Brown or Smart....OR.... it saves the financial headache of finding a way to work a Rozier s&T with a third team to protect those 2 assets.
Basically for Boston that 9th pick equals keeping Brown and Smart as opposed to losing 1 of them.
As an aside your numbers are for this year's rookie scale, next years are different. (about 20% higher)
You are wrong about the pick not conveying meaning that Brown/Smart has to be in the deal for salary purposes. The C's can do what Houston did and sign a bunch of small salaried players, or just sign one player to a bigger deal to make the gap up. If those players are in the deal its because NOP wanted them.
Boston's front office who is much more familiar with the salary math than either you or I would greatly prefer the pick NOT convey this year. This is based on multiple sourced beat reporters and national guys. (Himmelsbach/Lowe/etc)
https://twitter.com/AdamHimmelsbach/status/1115108868311457794
If the pick is more valuable rolled over, then they can potentially include less talent and more salary make weight in any potential deal.
To build on this, between picks 14, 20 and 22 at the 120% f the rook scale would be around 8.5 Million in salary. Tatum, Yabu, Williams would come out to almost 13. So already you are right at or juts shy of the 21.6 you would need to trade for Davis. The extra money this pick provides for cap filler is worth almost nothing in a trade, we just dont need it to make it work. And that assuming we having enough in the trade without Brown or Smart to get it done anyway, this pick conveying this year loses value and actually makes it MORE likely we have to include Brown or Smart to make up that value.
only if New Orleans thinks it has less value, which contrary to you assertions in this thread is far from a given.
Fair enough. I know that MEM does want it to convey, and BOS does not. I would think if it where more valuable at 9 BOS would want it to convey. So I'm pretty confident in that assertion.
How do you know Boston doesn't want it to convey? And Memphis wanting it to convey doesn't mean what you think it means.
Adam Himmelsbach seems to think the C's strongly do NOT want it to convey.
"We’ve know for a while that the Celtics don’t want the Grizzlies’ pick to convey, but I was a little unsure about how badly, because the No. 9 overall pick would still be a trade chip. But a Cs source tonight said they *really* don’t want it this year."
https://twitter.com/AdamHimmelsbach/status/1115108868311457794
Whether or not this is misdirection by Ainge, who knows.
Himmelsbach also thinks the Warriors should tank against the Grizz on Tuesday to help the pick convey, as we would be their top threat if we land AD.
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so then we are looking at:
tatum (7.8)
Yabusele (3.1)
Pick 14, 20, 24 (4.5ish mill)
Some Scrap Heap Signing (5+Mill)
and in 90 days after signing the scrap heap player to a multi year deal....trade for Davis.
I dont have alot of faith in that happening....
Rozier and Morris should have been moved by deadline for a 9 ish mill, multi year deal player. And it wouldnt be an issue at all.
(Orlando for Augustine and Frazier)
(Washington for Mahinimi and their pick)
I am certain there was deals out there.
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Its not that the expected value of the pick is much greater next year rather than this year. Its that it has potential they can sell AND it gives the C's asset diversity.
They already have 3 picks this draft, better to have another in the next two years than a fourth pick this year. Both if they end up keeping it or in a trade.
For Bostons sake, it is better to have it parlay now. (talking Davis Trade here)
That pick signed at 120% equals about 3.7 mill in salary.
Add that to pick 14 and 20 and we are talking a little over 9 mill in salary.
Add that to Yabusele and tatum and now we are close enough that a trade for a non trade kicker Davis works.
Basically that picks salary saves having trade 1 of Brown or Smart....OR.... it saves the financial headache of finding a way to work a Rozier s&T with a third team to protect those 2 assets.
Basically for Boston that 9th pick equals keeping Brown and Smart as opposed to losing 1 of them.
As an aside your numbers are for this year's rookie scale, next years are different. (about 20% higher)
You are wrong about the pick not conveying meaning that Brown/Smart has to be in the deal for salary purposes. The C's can do what Houston did and sign a bunch of small salaried players, or just sign one player to a bigger deal to make the gap up. If those players are in the deal its because NOP wanted them.
Boston's front office who is much more familiar with the salary math than either you or I would greatly prefer the pick NOT convey this year. This is based on multiple sourced beat reporters and national guys. (Himmelsbach/Lowe/etc)
https://twitter.com/AdamHimmelsbach/status/1115108868311457794
If the pick is more valuable rolled over, then they can potentially include less talent and more salary make weight in any potential deal.
To build on this, between picks 14, 20 and 22 at the 120% f the rook scale would be around 8.5 Million in salary. Tatum, Yabu, Williams would come out to almost 13. So already you are right at or juts shy of the 21.6 you would need to trade for Davis. The extra money this pick provides for cap filler is worth almost nothing in a trade, we just dont need it to make it work. And that assuming we having enough in the trade without Brown or Smart to get it done anyway, this pick conveying this year loses value and actually makes it MORE likely we have to include Brown or Smart to make up that value.
only if New Orleans thinks it has less value, which contrary to you assertions in this thread is far from a given.
Fair enough. I know that MEM does want it to convey, and BOS does not. I would think if it where more valuable at 9 BOS would want it to convey. So I'm pretty confident in that assertion.
How do you know Boston doesn't want it to convey? And Memphis wanting it to convey doesn't mean what you think it means.
Adam Himmelsbach seems to think the C's strongly do NOT want it to convey.
"We’ve know for a while that the Celtics don’t want the Grizzlies’ pick to convey, but I was a little unsure about how badly, because the No. 9 overall pick would still be a trade chip. But a Cs source tonight said they *really* don’t want it this year."
https://twitter.com/AdamHimmelsbach/status/1115108868311457794
Whether or not this is misdirection by Ainge, who knows.
Himmelsbach also thinks the Warriors should tank against the Grizz on Tuesday to help the pick convey, as we would be their top threat if we land AD.
Even if true it might not have anything to do with perceived value, it might quite simply be because Boston doesn't want 4 1st round picks in the same draft. Spreading the picks out might have more value to Boston even if the pick itself doesn't have more value.
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I saw online that the Dubs said they’ll rest 4 of 8 rotation players in both remaining games against Pelicans and Grizzlies
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I saw online that the Dubs said they’ll rest 4 of 8 rotation players in both remaining games against Pelicans and Grizzlies
I couldn't find this (did a quick Google search), any idea which 4? It'd be great if they didn't sit KD, Steph & Klay (for the Griz game at least).
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I saw online that the Dubs said they’ll rest 4 of 8 rotation players in both remaining games against Pelicans and Grizzlies
I couldn't find this (did a quick Google search), any idea which 4? It'd be great if they didn't sit KD, Steph & Klay (for the Griz game at least).
Different four rest each game, no mention of which ones
Also, Conley and Noah and Bradley ruled out for tomorrow’s Detroit game. I read that Bradley has been cleared but has been sitting out as a precaution
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Its not that the expected value of the pick is much greater next year rather than this year. Its that it has potential they can sell AND it gives the C's asset diversity.
They already have 3 picks this draft, better to have another in the next two years than a fourth pick this year. Both if they end up keeping it or in a trade.
For Bostons sake, it is better to have it parlay now. (talking Davis Trade here)
That pick signed at 120% equals about 3.7 mill in salary.
Add that to pick 14 and 20 and we are talking a little over 9 mill in salary.
Add that to Yabusele and tatum and now we are close enough that a trade for a non trade kicker Davis works.
Basically that picks salary saves having trade 1 of Brown or Smart....OR.... it saves the financial headache of finding a way to work a Rozier s&T with a third team to protect those 2 assets.
Basically for Boston that 9th pick equals keeping Brown and Smart as opposed to losing 1 of them.
As an aside your numbers are for this year's rookie scale, next years are different. (about 20% higher)
You are wrong about the pick not conveying meaning that Brown/Smart has to be in the deal for salary purposes. The C's can do what Houston did and sign a bunch of small salaried players, or just sign one player to a bigger deal to make the gap up. If those players are in the deal its because NOP wanted them.
Boston's front office who is much more familiar with the salary math than either you or I would greatly prefer the pick NOT convey this year. This is based on multiple sourced beat reporters and national guys. (Himmelsbach/Lowe/etc)
https://twitter.com/AdamHimmelsbach/status/1115108868311457794
If the pick is more valuable rolled over, then they can potentially include less talent and more salary make weight in any potential deal.
To build on this, between picks 14, 20 and 22 at the 120% f the rook scale would be around 8.5 Million in salary. Tatum, Yabu, Williams would come out to almost 13. So already you are right at or juts shy of the 21.6 you would need to trade for Davis. The extra money this pick provides for cap filler is worth almost nothing in a trade, we just dont need it to make it work. And that assuming we having enough in the trade without Brown or Smart to get it done anyway, this pick conveying this year loses value and actually makes it MORE likely we have to include Brown or Smart to make up that value.
only if New Orleans thinks it has less value, which contrary to you assertions in this thread is far from a given.
Fair enough. I know that MEM does want it to convey, and BOS does not. I would think if it where more valuable at 9 BOS would want it to convey. So I'm pretty confident in that assertion.
How do you know Boston doesn't want it to convey? And Memphis wanting it to convey doesn't mean what you think it means.
Adam Himmelsbach seems to think the C's strongly do NOT want it to convey.
"We’ve know for a while that the Celtics don’t want the Grizzlies’ pick to convey, but I was a little unsure about how badly, because the No. 9 overall pick would still be a trade chip. But a Cs source tonight said they *really* don’t want it this year."
https://twitter.com/AdamHimmelsbach/status/1115108868311457794
Whether or not this is misdirection by Ainge, who knows.
Himmelsbach also thinks the Warriors should tank against the Grizz on Tuesday to help the pick convey, as we would be their top threat if we land AD.
Even if true it might not have anything to do with perceived value, it might quite simply be because Boston doesn't want 4 1st round picks in the same draft. Spreading the picks out might have more value to Boston even if the pick itself doesn't have more value.
Maybe, but at the very least I think means they don't believe it loses value if it roles over. Considering the pick is first and foremost trade bait I think it's more likely they want it to role over because it's a higher value play, having too many picks won't matter to NOP who only have like 8 guys under contract next year.
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so then we are looking at:
tatum (7.8)
Yabusele (3.1)
Pick 14, 20, 24 (4.5ish mill)
Some Scrap Heap Signing (5+Mill)
and in 90 days after signing the scrap heap player to a multi year deal....trade for Davis.
I dont have alot of faith in that happening....
Rozier and Morris should have been moved by deadline for a 9 ish mill, multi year deal player. And it wouldnt be an issue at all.
(Orlando for Augustine and Frazier)
(Washington for Mahinimi and their pick)
I am certain there was deals out there.
Your numbers are wrong. Its 2.87 for the 14th pick, 2.15 for 20 and about 1.85 for 24. At 120% that number its 8.2 million ish, plus Tatum and yabu and William's at 2 mill and you are only a million away. So to reiterate, we don't need the number 9 pick salary to pretty easily get there.
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https://twitter.com/GrizzliesPR/status/1115334582734348289
@memgrizz injury report, April 9 vs @DetroitPistons
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D3p248VX4AIc38T.jpg)
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https://twitter.com/GrizzliesPR/status/1115334582734348289
@memgrizz injury report, April 9 vs @DetroitPistons
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D3p248VX4AIc38T.jpg)
Looks like they will need to have the ball boy suit up. Maybe some of the popcorn vendors too.
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https://twitter.com/GrizzliesPR/status/1115334582734348289
@memgrizz injury report, April 9 vs @DetroitPistons
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D3p248VX4AIc38T.jpg)
Looks like they will need to have the ball boy suit up. Maybe some of the popcorn vendors too.
Lol. Doesn’t look like Memphis is desperate to win this game.
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https://twitter.com/GrizzliesPR/status/1115334582734348289
@memgrizz injury report, April 9 vs @DetroitPistons
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D3p248VX4AIc38T.jpg)
Looks like they will need to have the ball boy suit up. Maybe some of the popcorn vendors too.
Lol. Doesn’t look like Memphis is desperate to win this game.
I wish Silky had bet me that hundred bucks.
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so then we are looking at:
tatum (7.8)
Yabusele (3.1)
Pick 14, 20, 24 (4.5ish mill)
Some Scrap Heap Signing (5+Mill)
and in 90 days after signing the scrap heap player to a multi year deal....trade for Davis.
I dont have alot of faith in that happening....
Rozier and Morris should have been moved by deadline for a 9 ish mill, multi year deal player. And it wouldnt be an issue at all.
(Orlando for Augustine and Frazier)
(Washington for Mahinimi and their pick)
I am certain there was deals out there.
Your numbers are wrong. Its 2.87 for the 14th pick, 2.15 for 20 and about 1.85 for 24. At 120% that number its 8.2 million ish, plus Tatum and yabu and William's at 2 mill and you are only a million away. So to reiterate, we don't need the number 9 pick salary to pretty easily get there.
We can sign and trade Rozier for say 12 mil, and 6 mil will count as receiving money for NO.
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Memphis lost.
Memphis was up big at the half and in control... until Detroit finally benched a clearly hobbled Blake, who was playing Dirk-like Defense with almost no lift, and Reggie Jackson. game and energy immediately shifted
Props last game to DAL’s Mejri and Burke
Tonight’s DET difference makers Ish Smith MVP. Also Drummond forcing turnovers, and then Kennard for timely 3s
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Wait wait wait - I thought Memphis was guaranteed to win tonight, just like they're guaranteed to convey the pick this year? ;)
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Well with NOLA's loss and Dallas being up 30 on Phoenix, it looks like at this point the worst that can happen barring a colossal Dallas collapse is a three-way tie for the 7th worst record with Memphis, Dallas, and NOLA, meaning that with the coin flips to determine lottery positions we'd have a 66% chance of Memphis ending up pre-lottery with spot number 7 or 8.
I'll take those odds. And then we'd just have to hope that one or two of those teams behind Memphis don't jump into the top-4. That is, unless it is Sacramento jumping to spot 2, 3, or 4. ;)
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Well with NOLA's loss and Dallas being up 30 on Phoenix, it looks like at this point the worst that can happen barring a colossal Dallas collapse is a three-way tie for the 7th worst record with Memphis, Dallas, and NOLA, meaning that with the coin flips to determine lottery positions we'd have a 66% chance of Memphis ending up pre-lottery with spot number 7 or 8.
I'll take those odds. And then we'd just have to hope that one or two of those teams behind Memphis don't jump into the top-4. That is, unless it is Sacramento jumping to spot 2, 3, or 4. ;)
Sacto now in a 3-way tie for 12th. According to tankathon that creates a 3.8% chance of jumping over Memphis to pick 2-4. One game left for each team in the 3-way.
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So this Memphis pick goes to coin flip if there is a ties correct?
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7 looks like a nice spot for it to not convey
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Well I was confident they would beat detroit. But appears they found a way to lose that game.
And I am being convinced that this is a good thing. So I am glad I was wrong about them winning the last 2 games?
Although I still think they beat GSW
If they finish at the 7th spot there is a 14.7% chance drops to 9 or 10 amd converts this season.
If they go to the 8th spot the odds the pick translates is 39.3%
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If they finish at the 7th spot there is a 14.7% chance drops to 9 or 10 amd converts this season.
If they go to the 8th spot the odds the pick translates is 39.3%
Chances won't be those because there will be tied records. Utah had 104 chances and Boston had 103 chances to move into Top 3 in 2014. https://www.nba.com/2014/news/04/18/ties-broken-2014-draft-order-official-release/
MEM Loss tonight -> tied with WAS
Win -> tied with NO and potentially Dallas
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Well I was confident they would beat detroit. But appears they found a way to lose that game.
And I am being convinced that this is a good thing. So I am glad I was wrong about them winning the last 2 games?
Although I still think they beat GSW
If they finish at the 7th spot there is a 14.7% chance drops to 9 or 10 amd converts this season.
If they go to the 8th spot the odds the pick translates is 39.3%
Hope they lose to GS tonight and stay at #7. It is a good thing bro.
Welcome to Team Rollover! There's room on the train for everyone.
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Well I was confident they would beat detroit. But appears they found a way to lose that game.
And I am being convinced that this is a good thing. So I am glad I was wrong about them winning the last 2 games?
Although I still think they beat GSW
If they finish at the 7th spot there is a 14.7% chance drops to 9 or 10 amd converts this season.
If they go to the 8th spot the odds the pick translates is 39.3%
Hope they lose to GS tonight and stay at #7. It is a good thing bro.
Welcome to Team Rollover! There's room on the train for everyone.
Hey, I am not sold completely on it yet.
Only because there was a tweet somewhere stating the team wanted it to roll over that I am wavering.
I dont understand the logic of wanting it to roll over, but if Danny says yes, then yes?
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Well I was confident they would beat detroit. But appears they found a way to lose that game.
And I am being convinced that this is a good thing. So I am glad I was wrong about them winning the last 2 games?
Although I still think they beat GSW
If they finish at the 7th spot there is a 14.7% chance drops to 9 or 10 amd converts this season.
If they go to the 8th spot the odds the pick translates is 39.3%
Hope they lose to GS tonight and stay at #7. It is a good thing bro.
Welcome to Team Rollover! There's room on the train for everyone.
Hey, I am not sold completely on it yet.
Only because there was a tweet somewhere stating the team wanted it to roll over that I am wavering.
I dont understand the logic of wanting it to roll over, but if Danny says yes, then yes?
I definitely understand the logic of wanting it to convey from Memphis' perspective.
Their best course would be to convey the pick to Boston, trade Conley in the off season (Feeling good that you let him become the All Time scorer in Memphis history by not trading him at the deadline), Give Jaren Jackson all the time that he needs, tank for a top 3 pick in 2020. Build around the top pick and Jackson Jr.
As for our perspective, I'd say we're betting on disaster. Memphis has vacillated between a bottom tier team and a fringe playoff contender these past 5 years. But after losing Gasol and possibly Conley in what way could we conceivably expect them to be any better this time next year? They would have less talent than Phoenix.
We would most likely be looking at either a better pick in 2020 (1-6 Protected) or the lotto ticket unprotected in 2021.
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Well I was confident they would beat detroit. But appears they found a way to lose that game.
And I am being convinced that this is a good thing. So I am glad I was wrong about them winning the last 2 games?
Although I still think they beat GSW
If they finish at the 7th spot there is a 14.7% chance drops to 9 or 10 amd converts this season.
If they go to the 8th spot the odds the pick translates is 39.3%
Hope they lose to GS tonight and stay at #7. It is a good thing bro.
Welcome to Team Rollover! There's room on the train for everyone.
Hey, I am not sold completely on it yet.
Only because there was a tweet somewhere stating the team wanted it to roll over that I am wavering.
I dont understand the logic of wanting it to roll over, but if Danny says yes, then yes?
I definitely understand the logic of wanting it to convey from Memphis' perspective.
Their best course would be to convey the pick to Boston, trade Conley in the off season (Feeling good that you let him become the All Time scorer in Memphis history by not trading him at the deadline), Give Jaren Jackson all the time that he needs, tank for a top 3 pick in 2020. Build around the top pick and Jackson Jr.
As for our perspective, I'd say we're betting on disaster. Memphis has vacillated between a bottom tier team and a fringe playoff contender these past 5 years. But after losing Gasol and possibly Conley in what way could we conceivably expect them to be any better this time next year? They would have less talent than Phoenix.
We would most likely be looking at either a better pick in 2020 (1-6 Protected) or the lotto ticket unprotected in 2021.
Memohis and Jonas Valanciunas are in an interesting positon as well.
I really like Jonas as an old school big body, he is very similar to baynes, only younger, and more mobile.
The potential pairing of JJJ and Jonas in the frontcourt could be pretty good, but then Rabb has been looking nice as a starter as well.
I also really like Wright from back in his college days, really smart player and a guy I wish the Celtics could somehow get to backup Irving.
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Well, next year Memphis still has 103M on the books but the following year that we are hoping to have the lottery pick unprotected, they will have only 44M on the books which gives them a lot of room to make a run at two big free agents which could make that pick not that attractive anymore. That combined with the draft picks they get this year and the next. I am not sure I am on board the lets hope we get lucky in 21 scenario and that they don't sign any big free agents that year to compete again. Time will tell.
I sure never expected the Kings to be this good this year and thought that was a no brainer to let it ride as well.
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Well, next year Memphis still has 103M on the books but the following year that we are hoping to have the lottery pick unprotected, they will have only 44M on the books which gives them a lot of room to make a run at two big free agents which could make that pick not that attractive anymore. That combined with the draft picks they get this year and the next. I am not sure I am on board the lets hope we get lucky in 21 scenario and that they don't sign any big free agents that year to compete again. Time will tell.
I sure never expected the Kings to be this good this year and thought that was a no brainer to let it ride as well.
People keep saying this as evidence for wanting the Memphis pick now, but those same people never mention Brooklyn thinking that their future unprotected picks were no big deal and gifting us the #7, #3, and #1 picks in that order. Also, note how those picks got better.
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Jonas more mobile than Baynes? ???
Jonas has his positives, but he's pretty simlar to Kanter in my eyes.
Baynes is a large positive defensively on the court, in large part because he gets to the right spots even when attacked. Jonas is a net negative defensively to the point that his scoring and rebounding are largely offset.
Anyways its not a matter of whether the pick will be a premium one going forward, we KNOW its not going to be a premium one given the assessment of the 9th slot in this draft. More than that I think its just the asset diversity of already having 3 picks this draft, better to have a spread.
Teams rarely want 3 rookies from the same class on their team, let alone 4!!
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Well, next year Memphis still has 103M on the books but the following year that we are hoping to have the lottery pick unprotected, they will have only 44M on the books which gives them a lot of room to make a run at two big free agents which could make that pick not that attractive anymore. That combined with the draft picks they get this year and the next. I am not sure I am on board the lets hope we get lucky in 21 scenario and that they don't sign any big free agents that year to compete again. Time will tell.
I sure never expected the Kings to be this good this year and thought that was a no brainer to let it ride as well.
People keep saying this as evidence for wanting the Memphis pick now, but those same people never mention Brooklyn thinking that their future unprotected picks were no big deal and gifting us the #7, #3, and #1 picks in that order. Also, note how those picks got better.
It works both ways, which is why the value of those future picks just isn't as much as many in this thread have been saying. Sometimes the unprotected picks get more valuable and sometimes they get less valuable. Memphis has a decent path to not being terrible, even in the next season or two. We've seen 2 recent examples of teams turning over their roster completely (or nearly completely) in 2 seasons and being a playoff team (Brooklyn) or a near playoff team (Sacramento). Yes, both Brooklyn and Sacramento were bad for longer than 2 years, but Sacramento still had Cousins and a bunch of vets on its roster not that long ago and Brooklyn wasn't getting draft picks until recently. The path to get respectable is fairly clear for teams, they just have to not mess it up. Now maybe Memphis messes it up, but they have a top 5 pick on the roster, they will have a top 8 pick this year if it doesn't convey, they have Conley who has trade value, as well as Jonas. They have other young players and they have tradeable contracts which they can use in trades to allow teams to dump salary and pick up future assets (like the Nets did in the Russell trade).
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Well, next year Memphis still has 103M on the books but the following year that we are hoping to have the lottery pick unprotected, they will have only 44M on the books which gives them a lot of room to make a run at two big free agents which could make that pick not that attractive anymore. That combined with the draft picks they get this year and the next. I am not sure I am on board the lets hope we get lucky in 21 scenario and that they don't sign any big free agents that year to compete again. Time will tell.
I sure never expected the Kings to be this good this year and thought that was a no brainer to let it ride as well.
People keep saying this as evidence for wanting the Memphis pick now, but those same people never mention Brooklyn thinking that their future unprotected picks were no big deal and gifting us the #7, #3, and #1 picks in that order. Also, note how those picks got better.
But the Nets situation was different. They had all those big salaries on the books and no chance at replenishing their coffers due to that. Memphis will be free and clean after next year and can sign 2 big stars. To me, the situations are entirely different.
Not saying we cannot get lucky 21..anything can happen but not counting on it as a sure thing either. There is risk/reward in any scenario and maybe the chance to get lucky in 21 with a top 3 pick is greater risk/reward scenario then a 9 pick this year, even if bad odds of doing so.
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Well, next year Memphis still has 103M on the books but the following year that we are hoping to have the lottery pick unprotected, they will have only 44M on the books which gives them a lot of room to make a run at two big free agents which could make that pick not that attractive anymore. That combined with the draft picks they get this year and the next. I am not sure I am on board the lets hope we get lucky in 21 scenario and that they don't sign any big free agents that year to compete again. Time will tell.
I sure never expected the Kings to be this good this year and thought that was a no brainer to let it ride as well.
People keep saying this as evidence for wanting the Memphis pick now, but those same people never mention Brooklyn thinking that their future unprotected picks were no big deal and gifting us the #7, #3, and #1 picks in that order. Also, note how those picks got better.
But the Nets situation was different. They had all those big salaries on the books and no chance at replenishing their coffers due to that. Memphis will be free and clean after next year and can sign 2 big stars. To me, the situations are entirely different.
Not saying we cannot get lucky 21..anything can happen but not counting on it as a sure thing either. There is risk/reward in any scenario and maybe the chance to get lucky in 21 with a top 3 pick is greater reward then a 9 pick this year, even if bad odds of doing so.
Do you really believe Memphis of all places is going to add 2 big stars when their market sucks and their team sucks?
I'd say it's 2-3x more likely that the pick conveys to us in 2021 and lands #1 than that Memphis dream scenario is.
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Well, next year Memphis still has 103M on the books but the following year that we are hoping to have the lottery pick unprotected, they will have only 44M on the books which gives them a lot of room to make a run at two big free agents which could make that pick not that attractive anymore. That combined with the draft picks they get this year and the next. I am not sure I am on board the lets hope we get lucky in 21 scenario and that they don't sign any big free agents that year to compete again. Time will tell.
I sure never expected the Kings to be this good this year and thought that was a no brainer to let it ride as well.
People keep saying this as evidence for wanting the Memphis pick now, but those same people never mention Brooklyn thinking that their future unprotected picks were no big deal and gifting us the #7, #3, and #1 picks in that order. Also, note how those picks got better.
But the Nets situation was different. They had all those big salaries on the books and no chance at replenishing their coffers due to that. Memphis will be free and clean after next year and can sign 2 big stars. To me, the situations are entirely different.
Not saying we cannot get lucky 21..anything can happen but not counting on it as a sure thing either. There is risk/reward in any scenario and maybe the chance to get lucky in 21 with a top 3 pick is greater reward then a 9 pick this year, even if bad odds of doing so.
Do you really believe Memphis of all places is going to add 2 big stars when their market sucks and their team sucks?
I'd say it's 2-3x more likely that the pick conveys to us in 2021 and lands #1 than that Memphis dream scenario is.
Well that is just one big assumption.
Would I expect memphis to sign a max free agent? Probably not, Would I expect them to sign a secondary player at a perhaps slight overpay, to join their young pieces and in doing so push them up towards a playoff spot? Absolutely
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Well, next year Memphis still has 103M on the books but the following year that we are hoping to have the lottery pick unprotected, they will have only 44M on the books which gives them a lot of room to make a run at two big free agents which could make that pick not that attractive anymore. That combined with the draft picks they get this year and the next. I am not sure I am on board the lets hope we get lucky in 21 scenario and that they don't sign any big free agents that year to compete again. Time will tell.
I sure never expected the Kings to be this good this year and thought that was a no brainer to let it ride as well.
People keep saying this as evidence for wanting the Memphis pick now, but those same people never mention Brooklyn thinking that their future unprotected picks were no big deal and gifting us the #7, #3, and #1 picks in that order. Also, note how those picks got better.
Aren't there big differences? Brooklyn kept getting worse in part because they weren't reloading with new talent AND their cap sheet was clogged. The Grizz got to keep JJJ jr instead of shipping him to Boston, and if they retain this year's top-8 pick and next year's top-6 they'll have those players too. Three top 8 (or better) selections plus free agents, and zero incentive to tank. Consider, too, that if they land sixth or seventh worst in the standings they have a 30-something percent change to land top 4 and an 8-9% chance of getting Zion. Who knows what a top-six pick next year might be.
They might blow it and hand over a great pick, but it's not hard to see they might not.
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Well, next year Memphis still has 103M on the books but the following year that we are hoping to have the lottery pick unprotected, they will have only 44M on the books which gives them a lot of room to make a run at two big free agents which could make that pick not that attractive anymore. That combined with the draft picks they get this year and the next. I am not sure I am on board the lets hope we get lucky in 21 scenario and that they don't sign any big free agents that year to compete again. Time will tell.
I sure never expected the Kings to be this good this year and thought that was a no brainer to let it ride as well.
People keep saying this as evidence for wanting the Memphis pick now, but those same people never mention Brooklyn thinking that their future unprotected picks were no big deal and gifting us the #7, #3, and #1 picks in that order. Also, note how those picks got better.
Aren't there big differences? Brooklyn kept getting worse in part because they weren't reloading with new talent AND their cap sheet was clogged. The Grizz got to keep JJJ jr instead of shipping him to Boston, and if they retain this year's top-8 pick and next year's top-6 they'll have those players too. Three top 8 (or better) selections plus free agents, and zero incentive to tank. Consider, too, that if they land sixth or seventh worst in the standings they have a 30-something percent change to land top 4 and an 8-9% chance of getting Zion. Who knows what a top-six pick next year might be.
They might blow it and hand over a great pick, but it's not hard to see they might not.
Yeah, and Sacto had an entire team of high lottery picks this year who were in their 2nd, 3rd or 4th year, ripe to develop. Memphis has JJJ and that's about it. There are just as many differences between Sacto and Memphis as there are between Brooklyn and Memphis.
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Let's say Memphis "doesn't want to make the 7th pick" this year. They just don't, the guys around #7 are not what they want. So, they want to lose tonight against GSW and coin flip or whatever out of the pick.
From what I've seen? Grizz are not going to win tonight. They are not playing anybody from their regular season roster.
My second bout of raw speculation? Ainge has "put it out there" that the "Celtics don't want the pick this year."
The master propagandist says he "doesn't want the pick."
Well, he knows his assorted post season trade packages better than I do. He knows potential Grizz lineups for 2019/20.
I think Ainge wants the pick this year because it's April and right when the flowers start to bloom each spring? Danny Ainge's pants catch on fire.
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Well, next year Memphis still has 103M on the books but the following year that we are hoping to have the lottery pick unprotected, they will have only 44M on the books which gives them a lot of room to make a run at two big free agents which could make that pick not that attractive anymore. That combined with the draft picks they get this year and the next. I am not sure I am on board the lets hope we get lucky in 21 scenario and that they don't sign any big free agents that year to compete again. Time will tell.
I sure never expected the Kings to be this good this year and thought that was a no brainer to let it ride as well.
People keep saying this as evidence for wanting the Memphis pick now, but those same people never mention Brooklyn thinking that their future unprotected picks were no big deal and gifting us the #7, #3, and #1 picks in that order. Also, note how those picks got better.
Aren't there big differences? Brooklyn kept getting worse in part because they weren't reloading with new talent AND their cap sheet was clogged. The Grizz got to keep JJJ jr instead of shipping him to Boston, and if they retain this year's top-8 pick and next year's top-6 they'll have those players too. Three top 8 (or better) selections plus free agents, and zero incentive to tank. Consider, too, that if they land sixth or seventh worst in the standings they have a 30-something percent change to land top 4 and an 8-9% chance of getting Zion. Who knows what a top-six pick next year might be.
They might blow it and hand over a great pick, but it's not hard to see they might not.
Yeah, and Sacto had an entire team of high lottery picks this year who were in their 2nd, 3rd or 4th year, ripe to develop. Memphis has JJJ and that's about it. There are just as many differences between Sacto and Memphis as there are between Brooklyn and Memphis.
Well, in the relevant year JJJ (high lottery pick) will be in his third year, and if they pick someone this year (high pick) will be in his second year. Also, Dillon Brooks will be in his fourth or fifth year, depending how you count; Brooks was chosen 15th, so mid-first, but he had a very solid rookie season in 2017-18 before losing most of this year to injury. Caboclo looks like another young, capable rotation player. I can easily see 2-3 very good young players in that group, to which they can add capable vet FAs.
Will they succeed? Who knows? After all, Phoenix is terrible and they pick high year after year. But I'd say that the likelihood of a top-five pick in 2021 isn't all that good.
That said, the only reason I would really want the pick to convey this year is if the salary helps us get AD without sending Smart or Brown. Otherwise, it's just better to spread this pick out into a different year. Maybe it's better, maybe it's not; it probably won't be much worse, but at least it would be in a different year and we would not have a fist full of picks this year.
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I mentioned this before but the 2021 class is loaded. See below comment about it's top prospect and also a link to a an article, if anyone has the attention span. It's why I want the pick to roll over until then but I want the pick this year if N'Orleans does.
"Jalen Green might be the best prospect in high school basketball, regardless of class. He's a sensational athlete with truly elite leaping ability and a scorers mentality. He heads an insanely strong class, which projects as the best draft class in many years."
http://www.nbadraftroom.com/2018/03/jalen-green-is-one.html
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Well, next year Memphis still has 103M on the books but the following year that we are hoping to have the lottery pick unprotected, they will have only 44M on the books which gives them a lot of room to make a run at two big free agents which could make that pick not that attractive anymore. That combined with the draft picks they get this year and the next. I am not sure I am on board the lets hope we get lucky in 21 scenario and that they don't sign any big free agents that year to compete again. Time will tell.
I sure never expected the Kings to be this good this year and thought that was a no brainer to let it ride as well.
People keep saying this as evidence for wanting the Memphis pick now, but those same people never mention Brooklyn thinking that their future unprotected picks were no big deal and gifting us the #7, #3, and #1 picks in that order. Also, note how those picks got better.
But the Nets situation was different. They had all those big salaries on the books and no chance at replenishing their coffers due to that. Memphis will be free and clean after next year and can sign 2 big stars. To me, the situations are entirely different.
Not saying we cannot get lucky 21..anything can happen but not counting on it as a sure thing either. There is risk/reward in any scenario and maybe the chance to get lucky in 21 with a top 3 pick is greater reward then a 9 pick this year, even if bad odds of doing so.
Do you really believe Memphis of all places is going to add 2 big stars when their market sucks and their team sucks?
I'd say it's 2-3x more likely that the pick conveys to us in 2021 and lands #1 than that Memphis dream scenario is.
Well that is just one big assumption.
Would I expect memphis to sign a max free agent? Probably not, Would I expect them to sign a secondary player at a perhaps slight overpay, to join their young pieces and in doing so push them up towards a playoff spot? Absolutely
Well for one thing, the 2020 free agents class. Which is the one where they ill have money, if very bad. The best player on it is Draymond. For another thing overprice middle of the road role player arent going to make them a playoff team, they almost never do.
This is a pretty simple calculus. If the Grizzlies are a bottom six type of team in 2020, low enough that the pick roles over again, how likely is it that they get good enough to make the playoffs the next year? The answer is very unlikely, to my memory two teams have wet from picking bottom six to playoffs in one year (at least recently). this years Orland Magic (who wouldn't have made it in the west), and the Cleveland Cavaliers when Lebron came back. That means the worst case scenario s a pick in the 12-14 range in a better draft in 2021. So essentially not much loss in value. The median outcome is probably the Grizzies convey something to us next year in the 7-9 range, so really not much different than what we are getting now. And the best case, an unprotected pick in the top half of the lottery with a pretty decent shot at top 4 in a better draft, is so valuable I think you risk those other outcomes.
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Well, next year Memphis still has 103M on the books but the following year that we are hoping to have the lottery pick unprotected, they will have only 44M on the books which gives them a lot of room to make a run at two big free agents which could make that pick not that attractive anymore. That combined with the draft picks they get this year and the next. I am not sure I am on board the lets hope we get lucky in 21 scenario and that they don't sign any big free agents that year to compete again. Time will tell.
I sure never expected the Kings to be this good this year and thought that was a no brainer to let it ride as well.
People keep saying this as evidence for wanting the Memphis pick now, but those same people never mention Brooklyn thinking that their future unprotected picks were no big deal and gifting us the #7, #3, and #1 picks in that order. Also, note how those picks got better.
Aren't there big differences? Brooklyn kept getting worse in part because they weren't reloading with new talent AND their cap sheet was clogged. The Grizz got to keep JJJ jr instead of shipping him to Boston, and if they retain this year's top-8 pick and next year's top-6 they'll have those players too. Three top 8 (or better) selections plus free agents, and zero incentive to tank. Consider, too, that if they land sixth or seventh worst in the standings they have a 30-something percent change to land top 4 and an 8-9% chance of getting Zion. Who knows what a top-six pick next year might be.
They might blow it and hand over a great pick, but it's not hard to see they might not.
Yeah, and Sacto had an entire team of high lottery picks this year who were in their 2nd, 3rd or 4th year, ripe to develop. Memphis has JJJ and that's about it. There are just as many differences between Sacto and Memphis as there are between Brooklyn and Memphis.
Well, in the relevant year JJJ (high lottery pick) will be in his third year, and if they pick someone this year (high pick) will be in his second year. Also, Dillon Brooks will be in his fourth or fifth year, depending how you count; Brooks was chosen 15th, so mid-first, but he had a very solid rookie season in 2017-18 before losing most of this year to injury. Caboclo looks like another young, capable rotation player. I can easily see 2-3 very good young players in that group, to which they can add capable vet FAs.
Will they succeed? Who knows? After all, Phoenix is terrible and they pick high year after year. But I'd say that the likelihood of a top-five pick in 2021 isn't all that good.
That said, the only reason I would really want the pick to convey this year is if the salary helps us get AD without sending Smart or Brown. Otherwise, it's just better to spread this pick out into a different year. Maybe it's better, maybe it's not; it probably won't be much worse, but at least it would be in a different year and we would not have a fist full of picks this year.
Again guys, the salary from this years pick des not make or break having to send Smart or Brown. Between 14, 20, 22 we would have almost 8.5 million in salary (at 120% rookie scale), then Tatum +Williams +Yabu is just over twelve. Thats about 20.5, or 1 million shy of the 21.6 we need. A minimum salary like Semi does it.
Putting it another way. If Boston doesn't wnat the pick to convey then they either A) Know that smart or Brown needs to be in the deal, so this is a moot point. or B) Know they don't need the extra salary and have a way or ways to get it done without them.
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Well, next year Memphis still has 103M on the books but the following year that we are hoping to have the lottery pick unprotected, they will have only 44M on the books which gives them a lot of room to make a run at two big free agents which could make that pick not that attractive anymore. That combined with the draft picks they get this year and the next. I am not sure I am on board the lets hope we get lucky in 21 scenario and that they don't sign any big free agents that year to compete again. Time will tell.
I sure never expected the Kings to be this good this year and thought that was a no brainer to let it ride as well.
People keep saying this as evidence for wanting the Memphis pick now, but those same people never mention Brooklyn thinking that their future unprotected picks were no big deal and gifting us the #7, #3, and #1 picks in that order. Also, note how those picks got better.
Aren't there big differences? Brooklyn kept getting worse in part because they weren't reloading with new talent AND their cap sheet was clogged. The Grizz got to keep JJJ jr instead of shipping him to Boston, and if they retain this year's top-8 pick and next year's top-6 they'll have those players too. Three top 8 (or better) selections plus free agents, and zero incentive to tank. Consider, too, that if they land sixth or seventh worst in the standings they have a 30-something percent change to land top 4 and an 8-9% chance of getting Zion. Who knows what a top-six pick next year might be.
They might blow it and hand over a great pick, but it's not hard to see they might not.
So they will have JJJ, a pick this year who according to most draft pundits will be at best a role payer, and a rookie? Thats not going to be a very scary team. And hell, thats if they actually pick well. Most case swill see 1 of those picks be a relative bust.
Now for sure, landing Zion would suck, so then they probably just convey the pick next year right back in the same range its at now, maybe a little later like 9-12. Again, I'll take that chance.
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Well, next year Memphis still has 103M on the books but the following year that we are hoping to have the lottery pick unprotected, they will have only 44M on the books which gives them a lot of room to make a run at two big free agents which could make that pick not that attractive anymore. That combined with the draft picks they get this year and the next. I am not sure I am on board the lets hope we get lucky in 21 scenario and that they don't sign any big free agents that year to compete again. Time will tell.
I sure never expected the Kings to be this good this year and thought that was a no brainer to let it ride as well.
People keep saying this as evidence for wanting the Memphis pick now, but those same people never mention Brooklyn thinking that their future unprotected picks were no big deal and gifting us the #7, #3, and #1 picks in that order. Also, note how those picks got better.
Aren't there big differences? Brooklyn kept getting worse in part because they weren't reloading with new talent AND their cap sheet was clogged. The Grizz got to keep JJJ jr instead of shipping him to Boston, and if they retain this year's top-8 pick and next year's top-6 they'll have those players too. Three top 8 (or better) selections plus free agents, and zero incentive to tank. Consider, too, that if they land sixth or seventh worst in the standings they have a 30-something percent change to land top 4 and an 8-9% chance of getting Zion. Who knows what a top-six pick next year might be.
They might blow it and hand over a great pick, but it's not hard to see they might not.
Yeah, and Sacto had an entire team of high lottery picks this year who were in their 2nd, 3rd or 4th year, ripe to develop. Memphis has JJJ and that's about it. There are just as many differences between Sacto and Memphis as there are between Brooklyn and Memphis.
Well, in the relevant year JJJ (high lottery pick) will be in his third year, and if they pick someone this year (high pick) will be in his second year. Also, Dillon Brooks will be in his fourth or fifth year, depending how you count; Brooks was chosen 15th, so mid-first, but he had a very solid rookie season in 2017-18 before losing most of this year to injury. Caboclo looks like another young, capable rotation player. I can easily see 2-3 very good young players in that group, to which they can add capable vet FAs.
Will they succeed? Who knows? After all, Phoenix is terrible and they pick high year after year. But I'd say that the likelihood of a top-five pick in 2021 isn't all that good.
That said, the only reason I would really want the pick to convey this year is if the salary helps us get AD without sending Smart or Brown. Otherwise, it's just better to spread this pick out into a different year. Maybe it's better, maybe it's not; it probably won't be much worse, but at least it would be in a different year and we would not have a fist full of picks this year.
I love JJJ, I rated him higher in the Young Player Redraft than anyone else. That said, JJJ, plus a disappointing prospect in the #6-8 range this year, plus Dillon Brooks does not remotely equal De'Aaron Fox, Buddy Hield, WCS, Bojan, Bagley, Giles, and Jackson who they parlayed into Harrison Barnes. That's an entire near-playoff rotation of 3x the young talent that's also mostly further along in their development.
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Well, next year Memphis still has 103M on the books but the following year that we are hoping to have the lottery pick unprotected, they will have only 44M on the books which gives them a lot of room to make a run at two big free agents which could make that pick not that attractive anymore. That combined with the draft picks they get this year and the next. I am not sure I am on board the lets hope we get lucky in 21 scenario and that they don't sign any big free agents that year to compete again. Time will tell.
I sure never expected the Kings to be this good this year and thought that was a no brainer to let it ride as well.
People keep saying this as evidence for wanting the Memphis pick now, but those same people never mention Brooklyn thinking that their future unprotected picks were no big deal and gifting us the #7, #3, and #1 picks in that order. Also, note how those picks got better.
Aren't there big differences? Brooklyn kept getting worse in part because they weren't reloading with new talent AND their cap sheet was clogged. The Grizz got to keep JJJ jr instead of shipping him to Boston, and if they retain this year's top-8 pick and next year's top-6 they'll have those players too. Three top 8 (or better) selections plus free agents, and zero incentive to tank. Consider, too, that if they land sixth or seventh worst in the standings they have a 30-something percent change to land top 4 and an 8-9% chance of getting Zion. Who knows what a top-six pick next year might be.
They might blow it and hand over a great pick, but it's not hard to see they might not.
Yeah, and Sacto had an entire team of high lottery picks this year who were in their 2nd, 3rd or 4th year, ripe to develop. Memphis has JJJ and that's about it. There are just as many differences between Sacto and Memphis as there are between Brooklyn and Memphis.
Well, in the relevant year JJJ (high lottery pick) will be in his third year, and if they pick someone this year (high pick) will be in his second year. Also, Dillon Brooks will be in his fourth or fifth year, depending how you count; Brooks was chosen 15th, so mid-first, but he had a very solid rookie season in 2017-18 before losing most of this year to injury. Caboclo looks like another young, capable rotation player. I can easily see 2-3 very good young players in that group, to which they can add capable vet FAs.
Will they succeed? Who knows? After all, Phoenix is terrible and they pick high year after year. But I'd say that the likelihood of a top-five pick in 2021 isn't all that good.
That said, the only reason I would really want the pick to convey this year is if the salary helps us get AD without sending Smart or Brown. Otherwise, it's just better to spread this pick out into a different year. Maybe it's better, maybe it's not; it probably won't be much worse, but at least it would be in a different year and we would not have a fist full of picks this year.
Again guys, the salary from this years pick des not make or break having to send Smart or Brown. Between 14, 20, 22 we would have almost 8.5 million in salary (at 120% rookie scale), then Tatum +Williams +Yabu is just over twelve. Thats about 20.5, or 1 million shy of the 21.6 we need. A minimum salary like Semi does it.
Putting it another way. If Boston doesn't wnat the pick to convey then they either A) Know that smart or Brown needs to be in the deal, so this is a moot point. or B) Know they don't need the extra salary and have a way or ways to get it done without them.
TP. Not only this but Rozier if you have willing parties on both sides can be included in a S&T deal (we can combine with other salaries but only half his new salary counts towards the receiving team. So if he is signed for 12 mil a year 6 mil will go towards the trade.)
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Well, next year Memphis still has 103M on the books but the following year that we are hoping to have the lottery pick unprotected, they will have only 44M on the books which gives them a lot of room to make a run at two big free agents which could make that pick not that attractive anymore. That combined with the draft picks they get this year and the next. I am not sure I am on board the lets hope we get lucky in 21 scenario and that they don't sign any big free agents that year to compete again. Time will tell.
I sure never expected the Kings to be this good this year and thought that was a no brainer to let it ride as well.
People keep saying this as evidence for wanting the Memphis pick now, but those same people never mention Brooklyn thinking that their future unprotected picks were no big deal and gifting us the #7, #3, and #1 picks in that order. Also, note how those picks got better.
Aren't there big differences? Brooklyn kept getting worse in part because they weren't reloading with new talent AND their cap sheet was clogged. The Grizz got to keep JJJ jr instead of shipping him to Boston, and if they retain this year's top-8 pick and next year's top-6 they'll have those players too. Three top 8 (or better) selections plus free agents, and zero incentive to tank. Consider, too, that if they land sixth or seventh worst in the standings they have a 30-something percent change to land top 4 and an 8-9% chance of getting Zion. Who knows what a top-six pick next year might be.
They might blow it and hand over a great pick, but it's not hard to see they might not.
Yeah, and Sacto had an entire team of high lottery picks this year who were in their 2nd, 3rd or 4th year, ripe to develop. Memphis has JJJ and that's about it. There are just as many differences between Sacto and Memphis as there are between Brooklyn and Memphis.
Well, in the relevant year JJJ (high lottery pick) will be in his third year, and if they pick someone this year (high pick) will be in his second year. Also, Dillon Brooks will be in his fourth or fifth year, depending how you count; Brooks was chosen 15th, so mid-first, but he had a very solid rookie season in 2017-18 before losing most of this year to injury. Caboclo looks like another young, capable rotation player. I can easily see 2-3 very good young players in that group, to which they can add capable vet FAs.
Will they succeed? Who knows? After all, Phoenix is terrible and they pick high year after year. But I'd say that the likelihood of a top-five pick in 2021 isn't all that good.
That said, the only reason I would really want the pick to convey this year is if the salary helps us get AD without sending Smart or Brown. Otherwise, it's just better to spread this pick out into a different year. Maybe it's better, maybe it's not; it probably won't be much worse, but at least it would be in a different year and we would not have a fist full of picks this year.
Again guys, the salary from this years pick des not make or break having to send Smart or Brown. Between 14, 20, 22 we would have almost 8.5 million in salary (at 120% rookie scale), then Tatum +Williams +Yabu is just over twelve. Thats about 20.5, or 1 million shy of the 21.6 we need. A minimum salary like Semi does it.
Putting it another way. If Boston doesn't wnat the pick to convey then they either A) Know that smart or Brown needs to be in the deal, so this is a moot point. or B) Know they don't need the extra salary and have a way or ways to get it done without them.
TP. Not only this but Rozier if you have willing parties on both sides can be included in a S&T deal (we can combine with other salaries but only half his new salary counts towards the receiving team. So if he is signed for 12 mil a year 6 mil will go towards the trade.)
I did not mean that we would need the 9 pick, necessarily, to make the math work. I meant Memphis also has to want whatever deal we offer. And while I get that they value Tatum highly, a huge pu-pu platter of overpaid mid-first round players and sign-and-traded guys we don't want may, in their eyes, subtract from the deal. When we make the salaries work we also have to consider the value of the assets we are using to make those salaries work.
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https://twitter.com/GrizzliesPR/status/1115963630661570560
@memgrizz injury report, April 10 vs @warriors:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D3yzAavWAAEAPuU.jpg)
For GSW, Curry Cousins Draymond have been ruled out. Durant and Klay are listed as questionable.
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Well, next year Memphis still has 103M on the books but the following year that we are hoping to have the lottery pick unprotected, they will have only 44M on the books which gives them a lot of room to make a run at two big free agents which could make that pick not that attractive anymore. That combined with the draft picks they get this year and the next. I am not sure I am on board the lets hope we get lucky in 21 scenario and that they don't sign any big free agents that year to compete again. Time will tell.
I sure never expected the Kings to be this good this year and thought that was a no brainer to let it ride as well.
People keep saying this as evidence for wanting the Memphis pick now, but those same people never mention Brooklyn thinking that their future unprotected picks were no big deal and gifting us the #7, #3, and #1 picks in that order. Also, note how those picks got better.
Aren't there big differences? Brooklyn kept getting worse in part because they weren't reloading with new talent AND their cap sheet was clogged. The Grizz got to keep JJJ jr instead of shipping him to Boston, and if they retain this year's top-8 pick and next year's top-6 they'll have those players too. Three top 8 (or better) selections plus free agents, and zero incentive to tank. Consider, too, that if they land sixth or seventh worst in the standings they have a 30-something percent change to land top 4 and an 8-9% chance of getting Zion. Who knows what a top-six pick next year might be.
They might blow it and hand over a great pick, but it's not hard to see they might not.
Yeah, and Sacto had an entire team of high lottery picks this year who were in their 2nd, 3rd or 4th year, ripe to develop. Memphis has JJJ and that's about it. There are just as many differences between Sacto and Memphis as there are between Brooklyn and Memphis.
Well, in the relevant year JJJ (high lottery pick) will be in his third year, and if they pick someone this year (high pick) will be in his second year. Also, Dillon Brooks will be in his fourth or fifth year, depending how you count; Brooks was chosen 15th, so mid-first, but he had a very solid rookie season in 2017-18 before losing most of this year to injury. Caboclo looks like another young, capable rotation player. I can easily see 2-3 very good young players in that group, to which they can add capable vet FAs.
Will they succeed? Who knows? After all, Phoenix is terrible and they pick high year after year. But I'd say that the likelihood of a top-five pick in 2021 isn't all that good.
That said, the only reason I would really want the pick to convey this year is if the salary helps us get AD without sending Smart or Brown. Otherwise, it's just better to spread this pick out into a different year. Maybe it's better, maybe it's not; it probably won't be much worse, but at least it would be in a different year and we would not have a fist full of picks this year.
I love JJJ, I rated him higher in the Young Player Redraft than anyone else. That said, JJJ, plus a disappointing prospect in the #6-8 range this year, plus Dillon Brooks does not remotely equal De'Aaron Fox, Buddy Hield, WCS, Bojan, Bagley, Giles, and Jackson who they parlayed into Harrison Barnes. That's an entire near-playoff rotation of 3x the young talent that's also mostly further along in their development.
Couple of thoughts.
You left out a pick and already decided that this year's pick is trash. Can't do either if we're gaming this out.
This year they will probably pick in the 6-8 range, but there is a healthy chance (37-9%) that their pick will be in the 1-4 range. We can't discount that to zero until the lottery is over. One possible outcome is that they will get Zion, Barrett, Morant, or Culver to put next to JJJ.
And, if we are thinking about the value of their 2021 pick to the Celtics, you also have to factor in whoever they pick in the 1-6 range next year (we're assuming the pick doesn't come to us next year). So there is JJJ, this year's pick, and next year's pick, all top-of-the-draft picks.
To that we *then* we add Dillon and Caboclo, who look capable of being rotation players on good teams, and whoever they can pick up in free agency. I have no idea who they will get (nobody does) but they will have abundant room under the cap. If the young talent is promising and the team treats the players well it's not hard to see good players wanting to go there.
After all that, will they be a dumpster fire? They might. But there are also a lot of scenarios in which they're a mediocre team - picking no earlier than ninth and possibly later.
I still see an upside in delaying the pick - having four this year isn't ideal - and given the way the lottery works there is some value in having the pick only after the protections come off. So, net, I'm still OK with it rolling over, provided that doesn't affect who we have to send Memphis in an AD trade. If my choices are: (1) send Tatum + Smart or Brown + salary and picks; or (2) Send Tatum + salary and picks, I choose door number 2.
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Well I was confident they would beat detroit. But appears they found a way to lose that game.
And I am being convinced that this is a good thing. So I am glad I was wrong about them winning the last 2 games?
Although I still think they beat GSW
If they finish at the 7th spot there is a 14.7% chance drops to 9 or 10 amd converts this season.
If they go to the 8th spot the odds the pick translates is 39.3%
Hope they lose to GS tonight and stay at #7. It is a good thing bro.
Welcome to Team Rollover! There's room on the train for everyone.
Hey, I am not sold completely on it yet.
Only because there was a tweet somewhere stating the team wanted it to roll over that I am wavering.
I dont understand the logic of wanting it to roll over, but if Danny says yes, then yes?
Because the value of the pick is based on perception. A pick that can possibly be unprotected by a lottery team is worth more. Memphis will only get worse after this year. The western conference will assure that.
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Well, next year Memphis still has 103M on the books but the following year that we are hoping to have the lottery pick unprotected, they will have only 44M on the books which gives them a lot of room to make a run at two big free agents which could make that pick not that attractive anymore. That combined with the draft picks they get this year and the next. I am not sure I am on board the lets hope we get lucky in 21 scenario and that they don't sign any big free agents that year to compete again. Time will tell.
I sure never expected the Kings to be this good this year and thought that was a no brainer to let it ride as well.
People keep saying this as evidence for wanting the Memphis pick now, but those same people never mention Brooklyn thinking that their future unprotected picks were no big deal and gifting us the #7, #3, and #1 picks in that order. Also, note how those picks got better.
Aren't there big differences? Brooklyn kept getting worse in part because they weren't reloading with new talent AND their cap sheet was clogged. The Grizz got to keep JJJ jr instead of shipping him to Boston, and if they retain this year's top-8 pick and next year's top-6 they'll have those players too. Three top 8 (or better) selections plus free agents, and zero incentive to tank. Consider, too, that if they land sixth or seventh worst in the standings they have a 30-something percent change to land top 4 and an 8-9% chance of getting Zion. Who knows what a top-six pick next year might be.
They might blow it and hand over a great pick, but it's not hard to see they might not.
Yeah, and Sacto had an entire team of high lottery picks this year who were in their 2nd, 3rd or 4th year, ripe to develop. Memphis has JJJ and that's about it. There are just as many differences between Sacto and Memphis as there are between Brooklyn and Memphis.
Well, in the relevant year JJJ (high lottery pick) will be in his third year, and if they pick someone this year (high pick) will be in his second year. Also, Dillon Brooks will be in his fourth or fifth year, depending how you count; Brooks was chosen 15th, so mid-first, but he had a very solid rookie season in 2017-18 before losing most of this year to injury. Caboclo looks like another young, capable rotation player. I can easily see 2-3 very good young players in that group, to which they can add capable vet FAs.
Will they succeed? Who knows? After all, Phoenix is terrible and they pick high year after year. But I'd say that the likelihood of a top-five pick in 2021 isn't all that good.
That said, the only reason I would really want the pick to convey this year is if the salary helps us get AD without sending Smart or Brown. Otherwise, it's just better to spread this pick out into a different year. Maybe it's better, maybe it's not; it probably won't be much worse, but at least it would be in a different year and we would not have a fist full of picks this year.
I love JJJ, I rated him higher in the Young Player Redraft than anyone else. That said, JJJ, plus a disappointing prospect in the #6-8 range this year, plus Dillon Brooks does not remotely equal De'Aaron Fox, Buddy Hield, WCS, Bojan, Bagley, Giles, and Jackson who they parlayed into Harrison Barnes. That's an entire near-playoff rotation of 3x the young talent that's also mostly further along in their development.
Couple of thoughts.
1 - You left out a pick and already decided that this year's pick is trash. Can't do either if we're gaming this out.
This year they will probably pick in the 6-8 range, but there is a healthy chance (37-9%) that their pick will be in the 1-4 range. We can't discount that to zero until the lottery is over. One possible outcome is that they will get Zion, Barrett, Morant, or Culver to put next to JJJ.
And, if we are thinking about the value of their 2021 pick to the Celtics, you also have to factor in whoever they pick in the 1-6 range next year (we're assuming the pick doesn't come to us next year). So there is JJJ, this year's pick, and next year's pick, all top-of-the-draft picks.
To that we *then* we add Dillon and Caboclo, who look capable of being rotation players on good teams, and whoever they can pick up in free agency. I have no idea who they will get (nobody does) but they will have abundant room under the cap. If the young talent is promising and the team treats the players well it's not hard to see good players wanting to go there.
After all that, will they be a dumpster fire? They might. But there are also a lot of scenarios in which they're a mediocre team - picking no earlier than ninth and possibly later.
I still see an upside in delaying the pick - having four this year isn't ideal - and given the way the lottery works there is some value in having the pick only after the protections come off. So, net, I'm still OK with it rolling over, provided that doesn't affect who we have to send Memphis in an AD trade. If my choices are: (1) send Tatum + Smart or Brown + salary and picks; or (2) Send Tatum + salary and picks, I choose door number 2.
Kind of irrelevant what you or I think about whether Memphis pick rolling over is better or worse from Celtics POV. As a trade asset, seems to be front office consensus that it is a better trade chip (hence, better value) to Celtics if it rolls over. Every report I have read indicates as much.
Am I right?
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If it conveys this season, it will help for salary purposes but probably hurt in terms of value. We would probably have to give up more assets by including the #9 pick than a future unprotected pick on a lottery team that should be worse moving forward.
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Well, next year Memphis still has 103M on the books but the following year that we are hoping to have the lottery pick unprotected, they will have only 44M on the books which gives them a lot of room to make a run at two big free agents which could make that pick not that attractive anymore. That combined with the draft picks they get this year and the next. I am not sure I am on board the lets hope we get lucky in 21 scenario and that they don't sign any big free agents that year to compete again. Time will tell.
I sure never expected the Kings to be this good this year and thought that was a no brainer to let it ride as well.
People keep saying this as evidence for wanting the Memphis pick now, but those same people never mention Brooklyn thinking that their future unprotected picks were no big deal and gifting us the #7, #3, and #1 picks in that order. Also, note how those picks got better.
Aren't there big differences? Brooklyn kept getting worse in part because they weren't reloading with new talent AND their cap sheet was clogged. The Grizz got to keep JJJ jr instead of shipping him to Boston, and if they retain this year's top-8 pick and next year's top-6 they'll have those players too. Three top 8 (or better) selections plus free agents, and zero incentive to tank. Consider, too, that if they land sixth or seventh worst in the standings they have a 30-something percent change to land top 4 and an 8-9% chance of getting Zion. Who knows what a top-six pick next year might be.
They might blow it and hand over a great pick, but it's not hard to see they might not.
Yeah, and Sacto had an entire team of high lottery picks this year who were in their 2nd, 3rd or 4th year, ripe to develop. Memphis has JJJ and that's about it. There are just as many differences between Sacto and Memphis as there are between Brooklyn and Memphis.
Well, in the relevant year JJJ (high lottery pick) will be in his third year, and if they pick someone this year (high pick) will be in his second year. Also, Dillon Brooks will be in his fourth or fifth year, depending how you count; Brooks was chosen 15th, so mid-first, but he had a very solid rookie season in 2017-18 before losing most of this year to injury. Caboclo looks like another young, capable rotation player. I can easily see 2-3 very good young players in that group, to which they can add capable vet FAs.
Will they succeed? Who knows? After all, Phoenix is terrible and they pick high year after year. But I'd say that the likelihood of a top-five pick in 2021 isn't all that good.
That said, the only reason I would really want the pick to convey this year is if the salary helps us get AD without sending Smart or Brown. Otherwise, it's just better to spread this pick out into a different year. Maybe it's better, maybe it's not; it probably won't be much worse, but at least it would be in a different year and we would not have a fist full of picks this year.
I love JJJ, I rated him higher in the Young Player Redraft than anyone else. That said, JJJ, plus a disappointing prospect in the #6-8 range this year, plus Dillon Brooks does not remotely equal De'Aaron Fox, Buddy Hield, WCS, Bojan, Bagley, Giles, and Jackson who they parlayed into Harrison Barnes. That's an entire near-playoff rotation of 3x the young talent that's also mostly further along in their development.
Couple of thoughts.
You left out a pick and already decided that this year's pick is trash. Can't do either if we're gaming this out.
This year they will probably pick in the 6-8 range, but there is a healthy chance (37-9%) that their pick will be in the 1-4 range. We can't discount that to zero until the lottery is over. One possible outcome is that they will get Zion, Barrett, Morant, or Culver to put next to JJJ.
And, if we are thinking about the value of their 2021 pick to the Celtics, you also have to factor in whoever they pick in the 1-6 range next year (we're assuming the pick doesn't come to us next year). So there is JJJ, this year's pick, and next year's pick, all top-of-the-draft picks.
To that we *then* we add Dillon and Caboclo, who look capable of being rotation players on good teams, and whoever they can pick up in free agency. I have no idea who they will get (nobody does) but they will have abundant room under the cap. If the young talent is promising and the team treats the players well it's not hard to see good players wanting to go there.
After all that, will they be a dumpster fire? They might. But there are also a lot of scenarios in which they're a mediocre team - picking no earlier than ninth and possibly later.
I still see an upside in delaying the pick - having four this year isn't ideal - and given the way the lottery works there is some value in having the pick only after the protections come off. So, net, I'm still OK with it rolling over, provided that doesn't affect who we have to send Memphis in an AD trade. If my choices are: (1) send Tatum + Smart or Brown + salary and picks; or (2) Send Tatum + salary and picks, I choose door number 2.
The point is that young big men don’t move the needle in terms of winning unless they are generational talents, and 2nd year players in general almost never do. Kevin Durant pretty much didn’t. I don’t think Jarrett Culver or the like will, and as I’ve said many times, it doesn’t even matter. It’s a potential-driven draft and the potential to get a top 3 pick in 2021 is worth a lot more than #9 this year, and you can trade it before Kings-like disappointment potentially sets in.
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How funny would it be if Memphis finishes tonight locked into the #8 spot (pick does not convey) and then Sacramento jumps into the lottery which would push Memphis into the #9 spot.
If Sacto jumps to #1 = Horrible
If Sacto jumps to #2/#3 = I'll be fine taking the #9 Memphis pick this year even though I prefer for it to roll over and the C's keep it.
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How funny would it be if Memphis finishes tonight locked into the #8 spot (pick does not convey) and then Sacramento jumps into the lottery which would push Memphis into the #9 spot.
If Sacto jumps to #1 = Horrible
If Sacto jumps to #2/#3 = I'll be fine taking the #9 Memphis pick this year even though I prefer for it to roll over and the C's keep it.
Yeah, I've been trying to tell myself that there's no way this outcome will happen for weeks now... I'll be honest... I'm slightly worried.
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How funny would it be if Memphis finishes tonight locked into the #8 spot (pick does not convey) and then Sacramento jumps into the lottery which would push Memphis into the #9 spot.
If Sacto jumps to #1 = Horrible
If Sacto jumps to #2/#3 = I'll be fine taking the #9 Memphis pick this year even though I prefer for it to roll over and the C's keep it.
Yeah, I've been trying to tell myself that there's no way this outcome will happen for weeks now... I'll be honest... I'm slightly worried.
If Memphis loses tonight they'll be tied for the #6 pick. If they lose the coin toss and end up #7 we could weather the storm of a Sacto (or any single team higher than seven) jumping ahead of them and pushing them to #9.
But if two teams jump a #7 Memphis then the pick conveys.
If Memphis wins and Dallas loses it will all come down to a three-way coin toss I believe. I don't know how that works in the world of physics.
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According to Ryan Bernardoni (@dangercart) on twitter a Memphis loss results in a 9% chance of the pick conveying. If MEM win, and DAL wins then it's a 27% chance. If MEM wins and DAL loses there's a 44% chance it conveys. These are the odds before random drawing to break the ties. If MEM wins, DAL loses and the MEM lost the tie break drawing and fell to the 9th spot there would be like a 73.7 percent chance it conveys. For a full break down of all possible outcomes he has a break down on his twitter.
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Durant and Thompson starting with Bogut Cook Bell
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Durant and Thompson starting with Bogut Cook Bell
Excelente
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Article from Athletic today ft. interview with Mike Conley strongly suggests he will ask for a trade. He's basically been an All-Star this entire season and is the kind of star that can raise up the young guys.
Feels bad rooting for a team to lose a great locker room guy and star but oh, well.
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Article from Athletic today ft. interview with Mike Conley strongly suggests he will ask for a trade. He's basically been an All-Star this entire season and is the kind of star that can raise up the young guys.
Feels bad rooting for a team to lose a great locker room guy and star but oh, well.
Wouldn’t be surprising in today’s NBA culture
Commentator said before game Conley said See you next year before todays game
Also, Grizzlies started out 6-6 from 3 before Rabb’s miss. They were 8-11 to start yesterday’s Game too
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Well hope for another Memphis collapse.
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Article from Athletic today ft. interview with Mike Conley strongly suggests he will ask for a trade. He's basically been an All-Star this entire season and is the kind of star that can raise up the young guys.
Feels bad rooting for a team to lose a great locker room guy and star but oh, well.
Wouldn’t be surprising in today’s NBA culture
Commentator said before game Conley said See you next year before todays game
Also, Grizzlies started out 6-6 from 3 before Rabb’s miss. They were 8-11 to start yesterday’s Game too
Let's hope for another collapse then because they lead the Warriors by 18 at the half and Golden State have nothing to play for. Would be surprised if Durant and Thompson play much longer. Dang you Steve Kerr...
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MEM apparently set a franchise scoring record for a first half.
If MEM holds on, the wait begins for 7-9 coin flip tiebreaker whatever you call it in a few days
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in case some folks are confused about coin flips or want to know more about how the celtics' picks may play out, there is this article:
https://www.dangerc.art/blog/celtics-final-day-draft-scenarios
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Looks like we wait for the tiebreaker lottery results now.
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Grizzlies third stringer, Jevon Carter (2018 - 2nd rd West Virginia) has 22 points against GSW.
Making a last minute ROY push.
GSW starters are back at the hotel...Grizz up by 24.
Spurs are putting the smack on Dallas....which actually makes sense for them.
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Looks like we wait for the tiebreaker lottery results now.
Yep. And then the lottery after that. Memphis could land 9th and still land in the top four on the lottery draw.
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Welp, pretty much everything has went against us tonight:
Smart hurt and out for several weeks
Memphis won and Dallas lost, making a three way tie for number seven
Both Miami and Charlotte lost, meaning if Sacramento wins tonight against a Lillard/McCollum-less Blazers team then we'll get the 14th pick
Yeah, terrible night for Celtics fans.
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Welp, pretty much everything has went against us tonight:
Smart hurt and out for several weeks
Memphis won and Dallas lost, making a three way tie for number seven
Both Miami and Charlotte lost, meaning if Sacramento wins tonight against a Lillard/McCollum-less Blazers team then we'll get the 14th pick
Yeah, terrible night for Celtics fans.
I mean I wouldn't say terrible. Theres not a lot of difference in expected value between the 12th and 14th pick in the draft. It would be nice for the MEM pick to role over, but the worst case scenario is we trade Jeff Green for the ninth pick in the draft.
The Marcus Smart news is terrible, but at least we are deep. Jaylen will have to step up.
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Welp, pretty much everything has went against us tonight:
Smart hurt and out for several weeks
Memphis won and Dallas lost, making a three way tie for number seven
Both Miami and Charlotte lost, meaning if Sacramento wins tonight against a Lillard/McCollum-less Blazers team then we'll get the 14th pick
Yeah, terrible night for Celtics fans.
I mean I wouldn't say terrible. Theres not a lot of difference in expected value between the 12th and 14th pick in the draft. It would be nice for the MEM pick to role over, but the worst case scenario is we trade Jeff Green for the ninth pick in the draft.
The Marcus Smart news is terrible, but at least we are deep. Jaylen will have to step up.
Yeah. I think the pick is more valuable if it rolls over but not that much more valuable. Pick #9 isn't bad.
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Welp, pretty much everything has went against us tonight:
Smart hurt and out for several weeks
Memphis won and Dallas lost, making a three way tie for number seven
Both Miami and Charlotte lost, meaning if Sacramento wins tonight against a Lillard/McCollum-less Blazers team then we'll get the 14th pick
Yeah, terrible night for Celtics fans.
I mean I wouldn't say terrible. Theres not a lot of difference in expected value between the 12th and 14th pick in the draft. It would be nice for the MEM pick to role over, but the worst case scenario is we trade Jeff Green for the ninth pick in the draft.
It could be lower than 9 though ... 10, 11, 12. Not super likely, and a lot depends on the drawing. But, 9 is not the worst case.
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Welp, pretty much everything has went against us tonight:
Smart hurt and out for several weeks
Memphis won and Dallas lost, making a three way tie for number seven
Both Miami and Charlotte lost, meaning if Sacramento wins tonight against a Lillard/McCollum-less Blazers team then we'll get the 14th pick
Yeah, terrible night for Celtics fans.
I mean I wouldn't say terrible. Theres not a lot of difference in expected value between the 12th and 14th pick in the draft. It would be nice for the MEM pick to role over, but the worst case scenario is we trade Jeff Green for the ninth pick in the draft.
It could be lower than 9 though ... 10, 11, 12. Not super likely, and a lot depends on the drawing. But, 9 is not the worst case.
Yeah, the worst case would be if the pick doesn't convey at all this year, Memphis decides to keep Conley, Valanciunas opts in, Bradley continues to regain his form from his Celtics days, and Jackson takes a step forward in his 2nd season. There's still a good chance Memphis could end up conveying a non-lottery pick in that scenario.
Which has been the whole point of contention as to the valuation of this pick, and whether or not it'd be better for it to convey this year or not. And this is what the people who think the pick is more valuable if it rolls over are failing to consider. You take the top 10 pick when you can get it, especially when the future direction of the team conveying the pick is highly volatile and could go either way. Sure, maybe Memphis bottoms out and we end up with a really nice pick in 2021, but it's more likely that we end up with a pick lower than what we likely stand to get if the pick conveys this year.
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Man people really think Valanciunas is better than or close to Gasol? Must be huffing some of the wage of wins metrics.
I don't look at the talent on that roster and think its likely that they have more wins next year. Just looking at the west every team but the Pelicans/Suns would be ahead of them in my predictions. And that's without trading Conley! I just don't see a playoff team in Memphis for a few years.
The expected value of the pick if it rolls over is clearly higher. Now maybe you don't want to take that risk, but given that we have 3 other picks this upcoming draft (including one in the same ballpark) I'm more than happy to take that risk.
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Man people really think Valanciunas is better than or close to Gasol? Must be huffing some of the wage of wins metrics.
I don't look at the talent on that roster and think its likely that they have more wins next year. Just looking at the west every team but the Pelicans/Suns would be ahead of them in my predictions. And that's without trading Conley! I just don't see a playoff team in Memphis for a few years.
The expected value of the pick if it rolls over is clearly higher. Now maybe you don't want to take that risk, but given that we have 3 other picks this upcoming draft (including one in the same ballpark) I'm more than happy to take that risk.
I think a a 26 year old Jonas, while not as good a defender and not as good of a passer, is going to give you as much on that team as 34 year old marc gasol will give that team.
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Welp, pretty much everything has went against us tonight:
Smart hurt and out for several weeks
Memphis won and Dallas lost, making a three way tie for number seven
Both Miami and Charlotte lost, meaning if Sacramento wins tonight against a Lillard/McCollum-less Blazers team then we'll get the 14th pick
Yeah, terrible night for Celtics fans.
I mean I wouldn't say terrible. Theres not a lot of difference in expected value between the 12th and 14th pick in the draft. It would be nice for the MEM pick to role over, but the worst case scenario is we trade Jeff Green for the ninth pick in the draft.
It could be lower than 9 though ... 10, 11, 12. Not super likely, and a lot depends on the drawing. But, 9 is not the worst case.
Yeah, the worst case would be if the pick doesn't convey at all this year, Memphis decides to keep Conley, Valanciunas opts in, Bradley continues to regain his form from his Celtics days, and Jackson takes a step forward in his 2nd season. There's still a good chance Memphis could end up conveying a non-lottery pick in that scenario.
Which has been the whole point of contention as to the valuation of this pick, and whether or not it'd be better for it to convey this year or not. And this is what the people who think the pick is more valuable if it rolls over are failing to consider. You take the top 10 pick when you can get it, especially when the future direction of the team conveying the pick is highly volatile and could go either way. Sure, maybe Memphis bottoms out and we end up with a really nice pick in 2021, but it's more likely that we end up with a pick lower than what we likely stand to get if the pick conveys this year.
I don't know about taking the top 10 pick when you can get it. Let's look back on Ainge's decision to add top 5 protection to the Lakers pick last year, which became the Kings pick. Had Ainge not had that protection we would've had the 10th pick last year ... I'd say it was worth the shot at a top pick (other than 1) to add that protection as opposed to taking Bridges at 10. Can anyone for sure say that the guy we get at maybe 14 this year will be much worse than Bridges at 10?
I don't think that a #10 pick generally moves the needle much more than a pick a bit lower (we know Memphis won't be a top playoff team in the next 2 years). But, a 1-3 pick is franchise changing. We want that franchise-changing pick at all costs.
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Man people really think Valanciunas is better than or close to Gasol? Must be huffing some of the wage of wins metrics.
I don't look at the talent on that roster and think its likely that they have more wins next year. Just looking at the west every team but the Pelicans/Suns would be ahead of them in my predictions. And that's without trading Conley! I just don't see a playoff team in Memphis for a few years.
The expected value of the pick if it rolls over is clearly higher. Now maybe you don't want to take that risk, but given that we have 3 other picks this upcoming draft (including one in the same ballpark) I'm more than happy to take that risk.
First, they are tied for the 2nd worst record in the west this year, and still might end up as only the 9th worst team. Second, it is way too early to know what teams will look like next year. I mean I could easily envision a scenario where the Clippers are a terrible team. I don't know that Dallas is going to be all that good either. Minnesota and Sacramento could easily take steps back. Memphis might find some real good value in a Conley trade and might hit the lottery and end up with a pretty decent squad.
Lots of things can happen that make Memphis transfer a pick that is not a top ten pick next year.
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Man people really think Valanciunas is better than or close to Gasol? Must be huffing some of the wage of wins metrics.
I don't look at the talent on that roster and think its likely that they have more wins next year. Just looking at the west every team but the Pelicans/Suns would be ahead of them in my predictions. And that's without trading Conley! I just don't see a playoff team in Memphis for a few years.
The expected value of the pick if it rolls over is clearly higher. Now maybe you don't want to take that risk, but given that we have 3 other picks this upcoming draft (including one in the same ballpark) I'm more than happy to take that risk.
lol...
Like, did you even bother to watch Valanciunas play at all this year? And I never said he was better than Gasol. But the team played better with JV, that is an undeniable fact.
He is much younger, and at this point in their careers, clearly a better scorer. Dude averaged 19 and 9 in the games he played for Memphis, and had a positive +/-, along with the fact the team won at a notably higher clip with him in the lineup. He was a per-36 beast in Toronto this year, regardless of whether he started or came off the bench.
Like, I seriously have to laugh at the people that dismiss JV.
The pick is not more valuable as a trade asset if it rolls over.
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Man people really think Valanciunas is better than or close to Gasol? Must be huffing some of the wage of wins metrics.
I don't look at the talent on that roster and think its likely that they have more wins next year. Just looking at the west every team but the Pelicans/Suns would be ahead of them in my predictions. And that's without trading Conley! I just don't see a playoff team in Memphis for a few years.
The expected value of the pick if it rolls over is clearly higher. Now maybe you don't want to take that risk, but given that we have 3 other picks this upcoming draft (including one in the same ballpark) I'm more than happy to take that risk.
I think a a 26 year old Jonas, while not as good a defender and not as good of a passer, is going to give you as much on that team as 34 year old marc gasol will give that team.
Enes Kanter is 26 too, Monroe is only 28. Jonas is another of that type of player, a plodding C who doesn't shoot.
Slow footed centers who can't defend need to be really great at everything else to be much of a positive player. Jonas is a nice rebounder but he doesn't do enough anywhere else.
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Man people really think Valanciunas is better than or close to Gasol? Must be huffing some of the wage of wins metrics.
I don't look at the talent on that roster and think its likely that they have more wins next year. Just looking at the west every team but the Pelicans/Suns would be ahead of them in my predictions. And that's without trading Conley! I just don't see a playoff team in Memphis for a few years.
The expected value of the pick if it rolls over is clearly higher. Now maybe you don't want to take that risk, but given that we have 3 other picks this upcoming draft (including one in the same ballpark) I'm more than happy to take that risk.
lol...
Like, did you even bother to watch Valanciunas play at all this year? And I never said he was better than Gasol. But the team played better with JV, that is an undeniable fact.
Sure did.
There is a reason why the Raptors were at their best playing Serge/Pascal at C. He just doesn't move the needle given his deficiencies.
With the Grizzlies he certainly put up solid numbers, but overall he's mostly empty calories. A better Kanter is still a meh player.
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The Grizzlies dismissed coach J.B. Bickerstaff and reassigned GM Chris Wallace to a scouting capacity in the front office, league sources tell ESPN. VP John Hollinger will also move into a senior advisory role.
https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1116429931225976833
^Bad news if the pick doesn't convey this year. :P
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The Grizzlies dismissed coach J.B. Bickerstaff and reassigned GM Chris Wallace to a scouting capacity in the front office, league sources tell ESPN. VP John Hollinger will also move into a senior advisory role.
https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1116429931225976833
^Bad news if the pick doesn't convey this year. :P
Wht? I think it's good news. Coaching turnover especially seems to make it more likely they will take a step back next year. Broader organizational turnover seems to signal they might be ready to move on from Conley as well.
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The Grizzlies dismissed coach J.B. Bickerstaff and reassigned GM Chris Wallace to a scouting capacity in the front office, league sources tell ESPN. VP John Hollinger will also move into a senior advisory role.
https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1116429931225976833
^Bad news if the pick doesn't convey this year. :P
Wht? I think it's good news. Coaching turnover especially seems to make it more likely they will take a step back next year. Broader organizational turnover seems to signal they might be ready to move on from Conley as well.
Chris Wallace’s demotion is a huge victory for MEM fans imo
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The Grizzlies dismissed coach J.B. Bickerstaff and reassigned GM Chris Wallace to a scouting capacity in the front office, league sources tell ESPN. VP John Hollinger will also move into a senior advisory role.
https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1116429931225976833
^Bad news if the pick doesn't convey this year. :P
Wht? I think it's good news. Coaching turnover especially seems to make it more likely they will take a step back next year. Broader organizational turnover seems to signal they might be ready to move on from Conley as well.
Chris Wallace’s demotion is a huge victory for MEM fans imo
I don't know enough about the guy to say one way or another. But the coach getting fired is probably a good thing, even if he's not very good the next guy coming in usually needs at least a year to instill his system which only increases their odds of being awful next year and giving us an unprotected pick in 21'. Assuming they keep it this year.
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Man people really think Valanciunas is better than or close to Gasol? Must be huffing some of the wage of wins metrics.
I don't look at the talent on that roster and think its likely that they have more wins next year. Just looking at the west every team but the Pelicans/Suns would be ahead of them in my predictions. And that's without trading Conley! I just don't see a playoff team in Memphis for a few years.
The expected value of the pick if it rolls over is clearly higher. Now maybe you don't want to take that risk, but given that we have 3 other picks this upcoming draft (including one in the same ballpark) I'm more than happy to take that risk.
First, they are tied for the 2nd worst record in the west this year, and still might end up as only the 9th worst team. Second, it is way too early to know what teams will look like next year. I mean I could easily envision a scenario where the Clippers are a terrible team. I don't know that Dallas is going to be all that good either. Minnesota and Sacramento could easily take steps back. Memphis might find some real good value in a Conley trade and might hit the lottery and end up with a pretty decent squad.
Lots of things can happen that make Memphis transfer a pick that is not a top ten pick next year.
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2830818-mike-conley-says-hes-not-interested-in-grizzlies-rebuild-amid-trade-rumors
I would be absolutely shocked if they aren't garbage next year. In summary the Grizzlies want to convey this pick because they know they will be garbage. The Celtics dont want the pick because they know the Grizzlies will be garbage. Mike Conley basically said "I'm out" because he knows the Grizzlies will be garbage. The Grizzles just fired their Coach and GM because they were and will continue to be garbage. This is the beginning of a rebuild. Whats the worst case scenario? they get to like 12th or 13th next year and we get a pick 3 or 4 slots later while avoiding having to fit 4 rookies onto the team next year? And given the way things appear to be heading I'd say thats the less likely outcome than an unprotected pick in 21.
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The Grizzlies dismissed coach J.B. Bickerstaff and reassigned GM Chris Wallace to a scouting capacity in the front office, league sources tell ESPN. VP John Hollinger will also move into a senior advisory role.
https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1116429931225976833
^Bad news if the pick doesn't convey this year. :P
Wht? I think it's good news. Coaching turnover especially seems to make it more likely they will take a step back next year. Broader organizational turnover seems to signal they might be ready to move on from Conley as well.
Chris Wallace’s demotion is a huge victory for MEM fans imo
I don't know enough about the guy to say one way or another. But the coach getting fired is probably a good thing, even if he's not very good the next guy coming in usually needs at least a year to instill his system which only increases their odds of being awful next year and giving us an unprotected pick in 21'. Assuming they keep it this year.
He’s a former Celtics GM
https://www.nba.com/grizzlies/news/chris-wallace-named-general-manager-140729
Prior to joining the Grizzlies, Wallace spent 10 seasons as general manager of the Boston Celtics (1997-2007) and four seasons as a scout with the Miami Heat (1993-97), where he was promoted to director of player personnel in his final season.
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Man people really think Valanciunas is better than or close to Gasol? Must be huffing some of the wage of wins metrics.
I don't look at the talent on that roster and think its likely that they have more wins next year. Just looking at the west every team but the Pelicans/Suns would be ahead of them in my predictions. And that's without trading Conley! I just don't see a playoff team in Memphis for a few years.
The expected value of the pick if it rolls over is clearly higher. Now maybe you don't want to take that risk, but given that we have 3 other picks this upcoming draft (including one in the same ballpark) I'm more than happy to take that risk.
First, they are tied for the 2nd worst record in the west this year, and still might end up as only the 9th worst team. Second, it is way too early to know what teams will look like next year. I mean I could easily envision a scenario where the Clippers are a terrible team. I don't know that Dallas is going to be all that good either. Minnesota and Sacramento could easily take steps back. Memphis might find some real good value in a Conley trade and might hit the lottery and end up with a pretty decent squad.
Lots of things can happen that make Memphis transfer a pick that is not a top ten pick next year.
It feels like, intentionally or otherwise, you're only looking at one side of the coin.
The Clippers could definitely get worse. They are also one of the frontrunners to get Kawhi Leonard.
Dallas are bringing back Kristaps, and will see continued development of their young guys. They're also always trying to add big name free agents.
I have a hard time imagining Sacramento getting worse, but Minnesota definitely could.
Then you have all the other teams which are looking to / will be likely to improve:
New York is obviously trying to improve through free agency and perhaps trading for Davis.
Atlanta is adding a top 5 pick and another top 10 pick to Trae Young, Collins, Huerter and Prince. Good young roster.
Phoenix should be better.
New Orleans could be better depending on the package they get.
The Lakers should sadly be better.
Miami and Charlotte are the only two teams I think will take significant steps backwards, but even then Miami still have Riley and Coach Spo.
All these teams are actively trying to improve and get better, whereas Memphis is trying to get worse.
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Man people really think Valanciunas is better than or close to Gasol? Must be huffing some of the wage of wins metrics.
I don't look at the talent on that roster and think its likely that they have more wins next year. Just looking at the west every team but the Pelicans/Suns would be ahead of them in my predictions. And that's without trading Conley! I just don't see a playoff team in Memphis for a few years.
The expected value of the pick if it rolls over is clearly higher. Now maybe you don't want to take that risk, but given that we have 3 other picks this upcoming draft (including one in the same ballpark) I'm more than happy to take that risk.
First, they are tied for the 2nd worst record in the west this year, and still might end up as only the 9th worst team. Second, it is way too early to know what teams will look like next year. I mean I could easily envision a scenario where the Clippers are a terrible team. I don't know that Dallas is going to be all that good either. Minnesota and Sacramento could easily take steps back. Memphis might find some real good value in a Conley trade and might hit the lottery and end up with a pretty decent squad.
Lots of things can happen that make Memphis transfer a pick that is not a top ten pick next year.
I can appreciate and genuinely agree with your sentiment uncertainty, but these examples seem pretty strange. Dallas hasn’t a ton of cap space and are adding porzingas. Doncic should also be a little better. That’s a heck of a lot more upside than Memphis has with just Jackson. I’m also perplexed why you would think Sacramento would take a step back with hield, Fox, bagley and a full year of Barnes. Again I don’t disagree with your idea on uncertainty but I feel like you chose the worst possible examples to make your point. Was this half joke or something?
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Man people really think Valanciunas is better than or close to Gasol? Must be huffing some of the wage of wins metrics.
I don't look at the talent on that roster and think its likely that they have more wins next year. Just looking at the west every team but the Pelicans/Suns would be ahead of them in my predictions. And that's without trading Conley! I just don't see a playoff team in Memphis for a few years.
The expected value of the pick if it rolls over is clearly higher. Now maybe you don't want to take that risk, but given that we have 3 other picks this upcoming draft (including one in the same ballpark) I'm more than happy to take that risk.
First, they are tied for the 2nd worst record in the west this year, and still might end up as only the 9th worst team. Second, it is way too early to know what teams will look like next year. I mean I could easily envision a scenario where the Clippers are a terrible team. I don't know that Dallas is going to be all that good either. Minnesota and Sacramento could easily take steps back. Memphis might find some real good value in a Conley trade and might hit the lottery and end up with a pretty decent squad.
Lots of things can happen that make Memphis transfer a pick that is not a top ten pick next year.
I can appreciate and genuinely agree with your sentiment uncertainty, but these examples seem pretty strange. Dallas hasn’t a ton of cap space and are adding porzingas. Doncic should also be a little better. That’s a heck of a lot more upside than Memphis has with just Jackson. I’m also perplexed why you would think Sacramento would take a step back with hield, Fox, bagley and a full year of Barnes. Again I don’t disagree with your idea on uncertainty but I feel like you chose the worst possible examples to make your point. Was this half joke or something?
Doncic was worse as the season wore on. Maybe it was just fatigue, maybe the league started to figure him out, or maybe he couldn't handle all the spotlight after all the trades. Either way given his huge pro background, I don't expect him to take a normal 2nd year jump. The Zinger is always hurt and even when he plays I don't know that he effects winning all that much. I mean the Knicks have been terrible pretty much his whole time there. And Dallas was downright terrible after they traded away Barnes, Jordan, and Matthews (they were 26-29 at one point this season and finished 7-20). If they don't add a free agent, I don't think they will be very good at all, and Dallas hasn't exactly been beaming with success on the free agent market.
Look I was as high on Sacramento as pretty much anyone last summer. I was ridiculed heavily for saying they would win 30 games and wouldn't be a bottom five team, but I think they clearly over performed this year. They finished 9-17 (they were 30-26 and in playoff position at the time) and flamed away and fired their coach. They obviously don't have their 1st round pick and I can't see any free agents going there. Barring something strange happening, they are who they are going to be next year, and I just don't see them sniffing 39 wins again. I don't know that they drop down to terrible, but I absolutely expect them to be a worse team (at least record wise) next year.
I have no idea what Memphis is actually going to look like, but there are plenty of scenarios where they are a 30+ win team next year and if they do that, they could easily finish ahead of both Dallas and Sacto, along with the Suns, Pelicans, Wolves, and a handful of eastern conference teams.
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Man people really think Valanciunas is better than or close to Gasol? Must be huffing some of the wage of wins metrics.
I don't look at the talent on that roster and think its likely that they have more wins next year. Just looking at the west every team but the Pelicans/Suns would be ahead of them in my predictions. And that's without trading Conley! I just don't see a playoff team in Memphis for a few years.
The expected value of the pick if it rolls over is clearly higher. Now maybe you don't want to take that risk, but given that we have 3 other picks this upcoming draft (including one in the same ballpark) I'm more than happy to take that risk.
I think a a 26 year old Jonas, while not as good a defender and not as good of a passer, is going to give you as much on that team as 34 year old marc gasol will give that team.
Enes Kanter is 26 too, Monroe is only 28. Jonas is another of that type of player, a plodding C who doesn't shoot.
Slow footed centers who can't defend need to be really great at everything else to be much of a positive player. Jonas is a nice rebounder but he doesn't do enough anywhere else.
They dont need it.
They need a rebounder, highly efficient player who zets great screens.
Look how much better we are with Baynes on the court.
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The Grizzlies dismissed coach J.B. Bickerstaff and reassigned GM Chris Wallace to a scouting capacity in the front office, league sources tell ESPN. VP John Hollinger will also move into a senior advisory role.
https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1116429931225976833
^Bad news if the pick doesn't convey this year. :P
Wht? I think it's good news. Coaching turnover especially seems to make it more likely they will take a step back next year. Broader organizational turnover seems to signal they might be ready to move on from Conley as well.
Yeah the coaching change really crushed the bucks, raptors and detroit this past season.
And front office changes crippled the clippers moving forward
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Man people really think Valanciunas is better than or close to Gasol? Must be huffing some of the wage of wins metrics.
I don't look at the talent on that roster and think its likely that they have more wins next year. Just looking at the west every team but the Pelicans/Suns would be ahead of them in my predictions. And that's without trading Conley! I just don't see a playoff team in Memphis for a few years.
The expected value of the pick if it rolls over is clearly higher. Now maybe you don't want to take that risk, but given that we have 3 other picks this upcoming draft (including one in the same ballpark) I'm more than happy to take that risk.
First, they are tied for the 2nd worst record in the west this year, and still might end up as only the 9th worst team. Second, it is way too early to know what teams will look like next year. I mean I could easily envision a scenario where the Clippers are a terrible team. I don't know that Dallas is going to be all that good either. Minnesota and Sacramento could easily take steps back. Memphis might find some real good value in a Conley trade and might hit the lottery and end up with a pretty decent squad.
Lots of things can happen that make Memphis transfer a pick that is not a top ten pick next year.
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2830818-mike-conley-says-hes-not-interested-in-grizzlies-rebuild-amid-trade-rumors
I would be absolutely shocked if they aren't garbage next year. In summary the Grizzlies want to convey this pick because they know they will be garbage. The Celtics dont want the pick because they know the Grizzlies will be garbage. Mike Conley basically said "I'm out" because he knows the Grizzlies will be garbage. The Grizzles just fired their Coach and GM because they were and will continue to be garbage. This is the beginning of a rebuild. Whats the worst case scenario? they get to like 12th or 13th next year and we get a pick 3 or 4 slots later while avoiding having to fit 4 rookies onto the team next year? And given the way things appear to be heading I'd say thats the less likely outcome than an unprotected pick in 21.
Delon wright has played great for them.
Freeing up capspace amd adding more parts for the price of conley will help the team.
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Man people really think Valanciunas is better than or close to Gasol? Must be huffing some of the wage of wins metrics.
I don't look at the talent on that roster and think its likely that they have more wins next year. Just looking at the west every team but the Pelicans/Suns would be ahead of them in my predictions. And that's without trading Conley! I just don't see a playoff team in Memphis for a few years.
The expected value of the pick if it rolls over is clearly higher. Now maybe you don't want to take that risk, but given that we have 3 other picks this upcoming draft (including one in the same ballpark) I'm more than happy to take that risk.
First, they are tied for the 2nd worst record in the west this year, and still might end up as only the 9th worst team. Second, it is way too early to know what teams will look like next year. I mean I could easily envision a scenario where the Clippers are a terrible team. I don't know that Dallas is going to be all that good either. Minnesota and Sacramento could easily take steps back. Memphis might find some real good value in a Conley trade and might hit the lottery and end up with a pretty decent squad.
Lots of things can happen that make Memphis transfer a pick that is not a top ten pick next year.
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2830818-mike-conley-says-hes-not-interested-in-grizzlies-rebuild-amid-trade-rumors
I would be absolutely shocked if they aren't garbage next year. In summary the Grizzlies want to convey this pick because they know they will be garbage. The Celtics dont want the pick because they know the Grizzlies will be garbage. Mike Conley basically said "I'm out" because he knows the Grizzlies will be garbage. The Grizzles just fired their Coach and GM because they were and will continue to be garbage. This is the beginning of a rebuild. Whats the worst case scenario? they get to like 12th or 13th next year and we get a pick 3 or 4 slots later while avoiding having to fit 4 rookies onto the team next year? And given the way things appear to be heading I'd say thats the less likely outcome than an unprotected pick in 21.
I've heard this a lot, and maybe it's true, but there's at least one question mark. If they wanted the pick to convey this year, they should have been trying to win their last six games - especially the games against Dallas, which were very winnable and would count twice by pushing Dallas down further. Memphis' injury list for those games was long, and included their best players. Some of the listings I assume were legit, but probably their very best player, Conley, was listed as day-to-day for each of the last six games and CBS reported he could have played. Always very hard to know why teams list players the way they do, but man that's suspicious. They lost a very winnable, key, game against Dallas (in overtime) and then dropped a huge lead against Detroit. Win either of those games and they would be sitting in the ninth spot, in great position for the pick to convey.
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Man people really think Valanciunas is better than or close to Gasol? Must be huffing some of the wage of wins metrics.
I don't look at the talent on that roster and think its likely that they have more wins next year. Just looking at the west every team but the Pelicans/Suns would be ahead of them in my predictions. And that's without trading Conley! I just don't see a playoff team in Memphis for a few years.
The expected value of the pick if it rolls over is clearly higher. Now maybe you don't want to take that risk, but given that we have 3 other picks this upcoming draft (including one in the same ballpark) I'm more than happy to take that risk.
First, they are tied for the 2nd worst record in the west this year, and still might end up as only the 9th worst team. Second, it is way too early to know what teams will look like next year. I mean I could easily envision a scenario where the Clippers are a terrible team. I don't know that Dallas is going to be all that good either. Minnesota and Sacramento could easily take steps back. Memphis might find some real good value in a Conley trade and might hit the lottery and end up with a pretty decent squad.
Lots of things can happen that make Memphis transfer a pick that is not a top ten pick next year.
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2830818-mike-conley-says-hes-not-interested-in-grizzlies-rebuild-amid-trade-rumors
I would be absolutely shocked if they aren't garbage next year. In summary the Grizzlies want to convey this pick because they know they will be garbage. The Celtics dont want the pick because they know the Grizzlies will be garbage. Mike Conley basically said "I'm out" because he knows the Grizzlies will be garbage. The Grizzles just fired their Coach and GM because they were and will continue to be garbage. This is the beginning of a rebuild. Whats the worst case scenario? they get to like 12th or 13th next year and we get a pick 3 or 4 slots later while avoiding having to fit 4 rookies onto the team next year? And given the way things appear to be heading I'd say thats the less likely outcome than an unprotected pick in 21.
I've heard this a lot, and maybe it's true, but there's at least one question mark. If they wanted the pick to convey this year, they should have been trying to win their last six games - especially the games against Dallas, which were very winnable and would count twice by pushing Dallas down further. Memphis' injury list for those games was long, and included their best players. Some of the listings I assume were legit, but probably their very best player, Conley, was listed as day-to-day for each of the last six games and CBS reported he could have played. Always very hard to know why teams list players the way they do, but man that's suspicious. They lost a very winnable, key, game against Dallas (in overtime) and then dropped a huge lead against Detroit. Win either of those games and they would be sitting in the ninth spot, in great position for the pick to convey.
Your entire point does not fit the narrative though.
so TP-
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Wonder if Grizz would trade the pick (if 7 or 8) to C's to avoid having to give up the future pick promised?
In terms of the tank and rebuild and the weak draft it may make sense. C's may prefer the high first now for trade ammo.
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Wonder if Grizz would trade the pick (if 7 or 8) to C's to avoid having to give up the future pick promised?
In terms of the tank and rebuild and the weak draft it may make sense. C's may prefer the high first now for trade ammo.
If the Celtics/Grizz wanted to they could do a trade/agreement to remove the protection and get the pick this year.
Multiple credible Boston beat reporters and multiple credible national reporters have stated the Celtics Organization does not want the pick this year.
I do not get why people seem to doubt that the C's Org. would rather have the pick roll over STILL.
-
Man people really think Valanciunas is better than or close to Gasol? Must be huffing some of the wage of wins metrics.
I don't look at the talent on that roster and think its likely that they have more wins next year. Just looking at the west every team but the Pelicans/Suns would be ahead of them in my predictions. And that's without trading Conley! I just don't see a playoff team in Memphis for a few years.
The expected value of the pick if it rolls over is clearly higher. Now maybe you don't want to take that risk, but given that we have 3 other picks this upcoming draft (including one in the same ballpark) I'm more than happy to take that risk.
First, they are tied for the 2nd worst record in the west this year, and still might end up as only the 9th worst team. Second, it is way too early to know what teams will look like next year. I mean I could easily envision a scenario where the Clippers are a terrible team. I don't know that Dallas is going to be all that good either. Minnesota and Sacramento could easily take steps back. Memphis might find some real good value in a Conley trade and might hit the lottery and end up with a pretty decent squad.
Lots of things can happen that make Memphis transfer a pick that is not a top ten pick next year.
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2830818-mike-conley-says-hes-not-interested-in-grizzlies-rebuild-amid-trade-rumors
I would be absolutely shocked if they aren't garbage next year. In summary the Grizzlies want to convey this pick because they know they will be garbage. The Celtics dont want the pick because they know the Grizzlies will be garbage. Mike Conley basically said "I'm out" because he knows the Grizzlies will be garbage. The Grizzles just fired their Coach and GM because they were and will continue to be garbage. This is the beginning of a rebuild. Whats the worst case scenario? they get to like 12th or 13th next year and we get a pick 3 or 4 slots later while avoiding having to fit 4 rookies onto the team next year? And given the way things appear to be heading I'd say thats the less likely outcome than an unprotected pick in 21.
I've heard this a lot, and maybe it's true, but there's at least one question mark. If they wanted the pick to convey this year, they should have been trying to win their last six games - especially the games against Dallas, which were very winnable and would count twice by pushing Dallas down further. Memphis' injury list for those games was long, and included their best players. Some of the listings I assume were legit, but probably their very best player, Conley, was listed as day-to-day for each of the last six games and CBS reported he could have played. Always very hard to know why teams list players the way they do, but man that's suspicious. They lost a very winnable, key, game against Dallas (in overtime) and then dropped a huge lead against Detroit. Win either of those games and they would be sitting in the ninth spot, in great position for the pick to convey.
Your entire point does not fit the narrative though.
so TP-
Yeah. Maybe I butchered it. I was trying to say that although I am reading that Memphis really wanted the pick to convey, what they did suggests they did not care all that much - or even that they wanted to keep the pick.
It all depends on whether that long, long injury list was genuine or, as CBS sports reported, Conley at least could have played. Obviously I can't say which it was, but it sure is suspicious.
-
Wonder if Grizz would trade the pick (if 7 or 8) to C's to avoid having to give up the future pick promised?
In terms of the tank and rebuild and the weak draft it may make sense. C's may prefer the high first now for trade ammo.
If the Celtics/Grizz wanted to they could do a trade/agreement to remove the protection and get the pick this year.
Multiple credible Boston beat reporters and multiple credible national reporters have stated the Celtics Organization does not want the pick this year.
I do not get why people seem to doubt that the C's Org. would rather have the pick roll over STILL.
Even if you are correct, not wanting the pick at 9 or worse, doesn't mean they might not be ok with the pick at 7, especially since 7 is the best they can do next year if it conveys.
-
Wonder if Grizz would trade the pick (if 7 or 8) to C's to avoid having to give up the future pick promised?
In terms of the tank and rebuild and the weak draft it may make sense. C's may prefer the high first now for trade ammo.
If the Celtics/Grizz wanted to they could do a trade/agreement to remove the protection and get the pick this year.
Multiple credible Boston beat reporters and multiple credible national reporters have stated the Celtics Organization does not want the pick this year.
I do not get why people seem to doubt that the C's Org. would rather have the pick roll over STILL.
Even if you are correct, not wanting the pick at 9 or worse, doesn't mean they might not be ok with the pick at 7, especially since 7 is the best they can do next year if it conveys.
If they throw in Wright in the deal too....then absolutely.
I know that wright cannot be traded until the 29th of June, but a 3 way deal.
Memphis pick (Should it land in the 5-7 range)
Wright
Miles
for
Rozier S&T
perhaps a second rounder for a little more incentive if needed.
Memphis gets their pick back, adds a young PG that will allow them to trade off Conley for wing upgrades.
Tatum, Memphis pick (5-7), Clipper Pick, CJ Miles, Boston 2nd rounder, Boston 2021 First, Williams, Yabusele,
for
Davis
Irving/Wright
Smart/Brown
Hayward/Sacramento Pick
Horford/Theis
Davis/Baynes
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Wonder if Grizz would trade the pick (if 7 or 8) to C's to avoid having to give up the future pick promised?
In terms of the tank and rebuild and the weak draft it may make sense. C's may prefer the high first now for trade ammo.
If the Celtics/Grizz wanted to they could do a trade/agreement to remove the protection and get the pick this year.
Multiple credible Boston beat reporters and multiple credible national reporters have stated the Celtics Organization does not want the pick this year.
I do not get why people seem to doubt that the C's Org. would rather have the pick roll over STILL.
Even if you are correct, not wanting the pick at 9 or worse, doesn't mean they might not be ok with the pick at 7, especially since 7 is the best they can do next year if it conveys.
If they throw in Wright in the deal too....then absolutely.
I know that wright cannot be traded until the 29th of June, but a 3 way deal.
Memphis pick (Should it land in the 5-7 range)
Wright
Miles
for
Rozier S&T
perhaps a second rounder for a little more incentive if needed.
Memphis gets their pick back, adds a young PG that will allow them to trade off Conley for wing upgrades.
Tatum, Memphis pick (5-7), Clipper Pick, CJ Miles, Boston 2nd rounder, Boston 2021 First, Williams, Yabusele,
for
Davis
Irving/Wright
Smart/Brown
Hayward/Sacramento Pick
Horford/Theis
Davis/Baynes
Regarding your Memphis trade, it's impossible.
1. Wright is a free agent and can't be traded for.
2. Even if traded for just Miles a sign and trade with Rozier doesn't work.
3. Miles still has an option on his contract, which he probably does opt into but isn't a given if he finds out about a possible trade and doesn't want to go to New Orleans.
You really probably should research your trades before posting your ideas. You keep putting a signed and traded Rozier into trades and they don't work.
And I am sorry, I do not accept an explanation that Ainge can just find any team with cap space to use in a 3 way. If you believe that, find that team in your research, explain why Rozier would want to go to that team, explain why that team gets involved and find that other player that is going out.
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Wonder if Grizz would trade the pick (if 7 or 8) to C's to avoid having to give up the future pick promised?
In terms of the tank and rebuild and the weak draft it may make sense. C's may prefer the high first now for trade ammo.
If the Celtics/Grizz wanted to they could do a trade/agreement to remove the protection and get the pick this year.
Multiple credible Boston beat reporters and multiple credible national reporters have stated the Celtics Organization does not want the pick this year.
I do not get why people seem to doubt that the C's Org. would rather have the pick roll over STILL.
Even if you are correct, not wanting the pick at 9 or worse, doesn't mean they might not be ok with the pick at 7, especially since 7 is the best they can do next year if it conveys.
If they throw in Wright in the deal too....then absolutely.
I know that wright cannot be traded until the 29th of June, but a 3 way deal.
Memphis pick (Should it land in the 5-7 range)
Wright
Miles
for
Rozier S&T
perhaps a second rounder for a little more incentive if needed.
Memphis gets their pick back, adds a young PG that will allow them to trade off Conley for wing upgrades.
Tatum, Memphis pick (5-7), Clipper Pick, CJ Miles, Boston 2nd rounder, Boston 2021 First, Williams, Yabusele,
for
Davis
Irving/Wright
Smart/Brown
Hayward/Sacramento Pick
Horford/Theis
Davis/Baynes
Regarding your Memphis trade, it's impossible.
1. Wright is a free agent and can't be traded for.
2. Even if traded for just Miles a sign and trade with Rozier doesn't work.
3. Miles still has an option on his contract, which he probably does opt into but isn't a given if he finds out about a possible trade and doesn't want to go to New Orleans.
You really probably should research your trades before posting your ideas. You keep putting a signed and traded Rozier into trades and they don't work.
And I am sorry, I do not accept an explanation that Ainge can just find any team with cap space to use in a 3 way. If you believe that, find that team in your research, explain why Rozier would want to go to that team, explain why that team gets involved and find that other player that is going out.
those are just details we can ignore ;)
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Man people really think Valanciunas is better than or close to Gasol? Must be huffing some of the wage of wins metrics.
I don't look at the talent on that roster and think its likely that they have more wins next year. Just looking at the west every team but the Pelicans/Suns would be ahead of them in my predictions. And that's without trading Conley! I just don't see a playoff team in Memphis for a few years.
The expected value of the pick if it rolls over is clearly higher. Now maybe you don't want to take that risk, but given that we have 3 other picks this upcoming draft (including one in the same ballpark) I'm more than happy to take that risk.
First, they are tied for the 2nd worst record in the west this year, and still might end up as only the 9th worst team. Second, it is way too early to know what teams will look like next year. I mean I could easily envision a scenario where the Clippers are a terrible team. I don't know that Dallas is going to be all that good either. Minnesota and Sacramento could easily take steps back. Memphis might find some real good value in a Conley trade and might hit the lottery and end up with a pretty decent squad.
Lots of things can happen that make Memphis transfer a pick that is not a top ten pick next year.
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2830818-mike-conley-says-hes-not-interested-in-grizzlies-rebuild-amid-trade-rumors
I would be absolutely shocked if they aren't garbage next year. In summary the Grizzlies want to convey this pick because they know they will be garbage. The Celtics dont want the pick because they know the Grizzlies will be garbage. Mike Conley basically said "I'm out" because he knows the Grizzlies will be garbage. The Grizzles just fired their Coach and GM because they were and will continue to be garbage. This is the beginning of a rebuild. Whats the worst case scenario? they get to like 12th or 13th next year and we get a pick 3 or 4 slots later while avoiding having to fit 4 rookies onto the team next year? And given the way things appear to be heading I'd say thats the less likely outcome than an unprotected pick in 21.
I've heard this a lot, and maybe it's true, but there's at least one question mark. If they wanted the pick to convey this year, they should have been trying to win their last six games - especially the games against Dallas, which were very winnable and would count twice by pushing Dallas down further. Memphis' injury list for those games was long, and included their best players. Some of the listings I assume were legit, but probably their very best player, Conley, was listed as day-to-day for each of the last six games and CBS reported he could have played. Always very hard to know why teams list players the way they do, but man that's suspicious. They lost a very winnable, key, game against Dallas (in overtime) and then dropped a huge lead against Detroit. Win either of those games and they would be sitting in the ninth spot, in great position for the pick to convey.
Your entire point does not fit the narrative though.
so TP-
Yeah. Maybe I butchered it. I was trying to say that although I am reading that Memphis really wanted the pick to convey, what they did suggests they did not care all that much - or even that they wanted to keep the pick.
It all depends on whether that long, long injury list was genuine or, as CBS sports reported, Conley at least could have played. Obviously I can't say which it was, but it sure is suspicious.
Its been pretty widely reported that the grizz wanted to convey the pick, both at the local level and on podcasts like Zach Lowes.
I'm not sure what you think they did that suggests they weren't trying to win. They had a long injury list, but they were mostly legit season ending type stuff at least in the case of JV, JJJ and Kyle Anderson. Avery Bradley and Chandler are always injured, can't be a surprise they weren't playing. The only guy you can argue could or should have played is Conley, but the guy is on the trade block and the Grizx weren't gonna torpedo his value risking another injury. As it turned out they were 1 win away from cementing the 9th position, they beat teams like Houton down the stretch
They were clearly trying to win, they were just very bad and very injured. Which is a great argument for wanting that pick to roll over. If they were trying this year and finished tied at 7th, how are they gonna look next year without Conley.
-
Wonder if Grizz would trade the pick (if 7 or 8) to C's to avoid having to give up the future pick promised?
In terms of the tank and rebuild and the weak draft it may make sense. C's may prefer the high first now for trade ammo.
If the Celtics/Grizz wanted to they could do a trade/agreement to remove the protection and get the pick this year.
Multiple credible Boston beat reporters and multiple credible national reporters have stated the Celtics Organization does not want the pick this year.
I do not get why people seem to doubt that the C's Org. would rather have the pick roll over STILL.
Even if you are correct, not wanting the pick at 9 or worse, doesn't mean they might not be ok with the pick at 7, especially since 7 is the best they can do next year if it conveys.
This could be true. All things equal if you can get the same pick a year earlier you probably do it. I don't think the Celtucs would however. Even the potential of an unprotected pick that could be top4 is a lit to give up. Then you have the added factors that the C's already have 3 firsts this year, and that early reports seem to think the 21 draft will be better than the 19 or 20 draft. Also from what I've read not a lot of difference 4-12 in this draft. I think the C's would be happy have the pick roll over and roll the dice.
-
The Grizzlies dismissed coach J.B. Bickerstaff and reassigned GM Chris Wallace to a scouting capacity in the front office, league sources tell ESPN. VP John Hollinger will also move into a senior advisory role.
https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1116429931225976833
^Bad news if the pick doesn't convey this year. :P
Wht? I think it's good news. Coaching turnover especially seems to make it more likely they will take a step back next year. Broader organizational turnover seems to signal they might be ready to move on from Conley as well.
Yeah the coaching change really crushed the bucks, raptors and detroit this past season.
And front office changes crippled the clippers moving forward
Well considering that Toronto actually did win fewer games, Detroit managed two more wins despite an entire extra half a season from a all nba forward Blake Griffin and Mil went from the worst coach in the league to the best (arguably) and also has an mvp on this team, I'm not sure what your point is.
-
The Grizzlies dismissed coach J.B. Bickerstaff and reassigned GM Chris Wallace to a scouting capacity in the front office, league sources tell ESPN. VP John Hollinger will also move into a senior advisory role.
https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1116429931225976833
^Bad news if the pick doesn't convey this year. :P
Wht? I think it's good news. Coaching turnover especially seems to make it more likely they will take a step back next year. Broader organizational turnover seems to signal they might be ready to move on from Conley as well.
Yeah the coaching change really crushed the bucks, raptors and detroit this past season.
And front office changes crippled the clippers moving forward
Well considering that Toronto actually did win fewer games, Detroit managed two more wins despite an entire extra half a season from a all nba forward Blake Griffin and Mil went from the worst coach in the league to the best (arguably) and also has an mvp on this team, I'm not sure what your point is.
You also ignored that the suns, hawks, Knicks, Cavs and even these Grizzlies finished this year finished this year with a different coach than started with the previous year you might recognize those as 4/5 worst teams in the league.
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Wonder if Grizz would trade the pick (if 7 or 8) to C's to avoid having to give up the future pick promised?
In terms of the tank and rebuild and the weak draft it may make sense. C's may prefer the high first now for trade ammo.
If the Celtics/Grizz wanted to they could do a trade/agreement to remove the protection and get the pick this year.
Multiple credible Boston beat reporters and multiple credible national reporters have stated the Celtics Organization does not want the pick this year.
I do not get why people seem to doubt that the C's Org. would rather have the pick roll over STILL.
Even if you are correct, not wanting the pick at 9 or worse, doesn't mean they might not be ok with the pick at 7, especially since 7 is the best they can do next year if it conveys.
This could be true. All things equal if you can get the same pick a year earlier you probably do it. I don't think the Celtucs would however. Even the potential of an unprotected pick that could be top4 is a lit to give up. Then you have the added factors that the C's already have 3 firsts this year, and that early reports seem to think the 21 draft will be better than the 19 or 20 draft. Also from what I've read not a lot of difference 4-12 in this draft. I think the C's would be happy have the pick roll over and roll the dice.
2 lottery picks might allow Boston to move up in the draft though if they are sold on someone that another team may not be sold on.
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Wonder if Grizz would trade the pick (if 7 or 8) to C's to avoid having to give up the future pick promised?
In terms of the tank and rebuild and the weak draft it may make sense. C's may prefer the high first now for trade ammo.
If the Celtics/Grizz wanted to they could do a trade/agreement to remove the protection and get the pick this year.
Multiple credible Boston beat reporters and multiple credible national reporters have stated the Celtics Organization does not want the pick this year.
I do not get why people seem to doubt that the C's Org. would rather have the pick roll over STILL.
Even if you are correct, not wanting the pick at 9 or worse, doesn't mean they might not be ok with the pick at 7, especially since 7 is the best they can do next year if it conveys.
This could be true. All things equal if you can get the same pick a year earlier you probably do it. I don't think the Celtucs would however. Even the potential of an unprotected pick that could be top4 is a lit to give up. Then you have the added factors that the C's already have 3 firsts this year, and that early reports seem to think the 21 draft will be better than the 19 or 20 draft. Also from what I've read not a lot of difference 4-12 in this draft. I think the C's would be happy have the pick roll over and roll the dice.
2 lottery picks might allow Boston to move up in the draft though if they are sold on someone that another team may not be sold on.
Maybe. But if that were the case I'd assume they'd want the pick to convey, and according to reporting they don't.
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Man people really think Valanciunas is better than or close to Gasol? Must be huffing some of the wage of wins metrics.
I don't look at the talent on that roster and think its likely that they have more wins next year. Just looking at the west every team but the Pelicans/Suns would be ahead of them in my predictions. And that's without trading Conley! I just don't see a playoff team in Memphis for a few years.
The expected value of the pick if it rolls over is clearly higher. Now maybe you don't want to take that risk, but given that we have 3 other picks this upcoming draft (including one in the same ballpark) I'm more than happy to take that risk.
First, they are tied for the 2nd worst record in the west this year, and still might end up as only the 9th worst team. Second, it is way too early to know what teams will look like next year. I mean I could easily envision a scenario where the Clippers are a terrible team. I don't know that Dallas is going to be all that good either. Minnesota and Sacramento could easily take steps back. Memphis might find some real good value in a Conley trade and might hit the lottery and end up with a pretty decent squad.
Lots of things can happen that make Memphis transfer a pick that is not a top ten pick next year.
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2830818-mike-conley-says-hes-not-interested-in-grizzlies-rebuild-amid-trade-rumors
I would be absolutely shocked if they aren't garbage next year. In summary the Grizzlies want to convey this pick because they know they will be garbage. The Celtics dont want the pick because they know the Grizzlies will be garbage. Mike Conley basically said "I'm out" because he knows the Grizzlies will be garbage. The Grizzles just fired their Coach and GM because they were and will continue to be garbage. This is the beginning of a rebuild. Whats the worst case scenario? they get to like 12th or 13th next year and we get a pick 3 or 4 slots later while avoiding having to fit 4 rookies onto the team next year? And given the way things appear to be heading I'd say thats the less likely outcome than an unprotected pick in 21.
I've heard this a lot, and maybe it's true, but there's at least one question mark. If they wanted the pick to convey this year, they should have been trying to win their last six games - especially the games against Dallas, which were very winnable and would count twice by pushing Dallas down further. Memphis' injury list for those games was long, and included their best players. Some of the listings I assume were legit, but probably their very best player, Conley, was listed as day-to-day for each of the last six games and CBS reported he could have played. Always very hard to know why teams list players the way they do, but man that's suspicious. They lost a very winnable, key, game against Dallas (in overtime) and then dropped a huge lead against Detroit. Win either of those games and they would be sitting in the ninth spot, in great position for the pick to convey.
Your entire point does not fit the narrative though.
so TP-
Yeah. Maybe I butchered it. I was trying to say that although I am reading that Memphis really wanted the pick to convey, what they did suggests they did not care all that much - or even that they wanted to keep the pick.
It all depends on whether that long, long injury list was genuine or, as CBS sports reported, Conley at least could have played. Obviously I can't say which it was, but it sure is suspicious.
Its been pretty widely reported that the grizz wanted to convey the pick, both at the local level and on podcasts like Zach Lowes.
I'm not sure what you think they did that suggests they weren't trying to win. They had a long injury list, but they were mostly legit season ending type stuff at least in the case of JV, JJJ and Kyle Anderson. Avery Bradley and Chandler are always injured, can't be a surprise they weren't playing. The only guy you can argue could or should have played is Conley, but the guy is on the trade block and the Grizx weren't gonna torpedo his value risking another injury. As it turned out they were 1 win away from cementing the 9th position, they beat teams like Houton down the stretch
They were clearly trying to win, they were just very bad and very injured. Which is a great argument for wanting that pick to roll over. If they were trying this year and finished tied at 7th, how are they gonna look next year without Conley.
It's a black box, I think. Conley is the main reason for my suspicion; he was listed day-to-day for something like two weeks. They don't usually do that; other players with more serious injuries were given different designations.
Given that two wins over Dallas would have put them in ninth, and even in prospect that was pretty likely, they had to know not playing him risked keeping the pick. In fact, it may be the reason the pick does not convey. Did they have a choice? I don't know. Can't know. You're right that Conley has been gimpy - so maybe they didn't want to risk him. But we all know that NBA franchises play games with injuries sometimes.
I'll just say this - if they really didn't care all that much about whether the pick conveyed or actually wanted to keep it, not playing guys who were dinged up but really could play is exactly what they would do. At this point in the season almost everybody has some little nagging ache or strain they could cite if they wanted.
-
The Grizzlies dismissed coach J.B. Bickerstaff and reassigned GM Chris Wallace to a scouting capacity in the front office, league sources tell ESPN. VP John Hollinger will also move into a senior advisory role.
https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1116429931225976833
^Bad news if the pick doesn't convey this year. :P
Wht? I think it's good news. Coaching turnover especially seems to make it more likely they will take a step back next year. Broader organizational turnover seems to signal they might be ready to move on from Conley as well.
Yeah the coaching change really crushed the bucks, raptors and detroit this past season.
And front office changes crippled the clippers moving forward
Well considering that Toronto actually did win fewer games, Detroit managed two more wins despite an entire extra half a season from a all nba forward Blake Griffin and Mil went from the worst coach in the league to the best (arguably) and also has an mvp on this team, I'm not sure what your point is.
You also ignored that the suns, hawks, Knicks, Cavs and even these Grizzlies finished this year finished this year with a different coach than started with the previous year you might recognize those as 4/5 worst teams in the league.
well,
Suns have terrible talent.
Hawks are in a complete rebuild, I think they performed well considering talent, fun team to watch. I dont think Bud had them winning any more games.
Casey did a fantastic job in Detroit, he is changing that whole system and integrating new players into it.
Knicks and Cavs have blatantly tanked all year with inferior talent.
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Wonder if Grizz would trade the pick (if 7 or 8) to C's to avoid having to give up the future pick promised?
In terms of the tank and rebuild and the weak draft it may make sense. C's may prefer the high first now for trade ammo.
If the Celtics/Grizz wanted to they could do a trade/agreement to remove the protection and get the pick this year.
Multiple credible Boston beat reporters and multiple credible national reporters have stated the Celtics Organization does not want the pick this year.
I do not get why people seem to doubt that the C's Org. would rather have the pick roll over STILL.
Even if you are correct, not wanting the pick at 9 or worse, doesn't mean they might not be ok with the pick at 7, especially since 7 is the best they can do next year if it conveys.
If they throw in Wright in the deal too....then absolutely.
I know that wright cannot be traded until the 29th of June, but a 3 way deal.
Memphis pick (Should it land in the 5-7 range)
Wright
Miles
for
Rozier S&T
perhaps a second rounder for a little more incentive if needed.
Memphis gets their pick back, adds a young PG that will allow them to trade off Conley for wing upgrades.
Tatum, Memphis pick (5-7), Clipper Pick, CJ Miles, Boston 2nd rounder, Boston 2021 First, Williams, Yabusele,
for
Davis
Irving/Wright
Smart/Brown
Hayward/Sacramento Pick
Horford/Theis
Davis/Baynes
Regarding your Memphis trade, it's impossible.
1. Wright is a free agent and can't be traded for.
2. Even if traded for just Miles a sign and trade with Rozier doesn't work.
3. Miles still has an option on his contract, which he probably does opt into but isn't a given if he finds out about a possible trade and doesn't want to go to New Orleans.
You really probably should research your trades before posting your ideas. You keep putting a signed and traded Rozier into trades and they don't work.
And I am sorry, I do not accept an explanation that Ainge can just find any team with cap space to use in a 3 way. If you believe that, find that team in your research, explain why Rozier would want to go to that team, explain why that team gets involved and find that other player that is going out.
1) Dual sign and trade.
2 and 3) Does work assuming that Miles opts in (not sure why he would opt out, as he will get playing time in Memphis and boost his value for 1 last contract.
Lastly, teams make moves with their capspace all the time, it is perfectly reasonable to assume that danny can find a team that would make a sign and trade happen, in fact, team doesnt even NEED capspace, only a desire for, in this instance, terry rozier. And yes I know that sign and trade with teams over the cap are difficult, but that is the word isnt it, difficult, not impossible.
-
Wonder if Grizz would trade the pick (if 7 or 8) to C's to avoid having to give up the future pick promised?
In terms of the tank and rebuild and the weak draft it may make sense. C's may prefer the high first now for trade ammo.
If the Celtics/Grizz wanted to they could do a trade/agreement to remove the protection and get the pick this year.
Multiple credible Boston beat reporters and multiple credible national reporters have stated the Celtics Organization does not want the pick this year.
I do not get why people seem to doubt that the C's Org. would rather have the pick roll over STILL.
Even if you are correct, not wanting the pick at 9 or worse, doesn't mean they might not be ok with the pick at 7, especially since 7 is the best they can do next year if it conveys.
If they throw in Wright in the deal too....then absolutely.
I know that wright cannot be traded until the 29th of June, but a 3 way deal.
Memphis pick (Should it land in the 5-7 range)
Wright
Miles
for
Rozier S&T
perhaps a second rounder for a little more incentive if needed.
Memphis gets their pick back, adds a young PG that will allow them to trade off Conley for wing upgrades.
Tatum, Memphis pick (5-7), Clipper Pick, CJ Miles, Boston 2nd rounder, Boston 2021 First, Williams, Yabusele,
for
Davis
Irving/Wright
Smart/Brown
Hayward/Sacramento Pick
Horford/Theis
Davis/Baynes
Regarding your Memphis trade, it's impossible.
1. Wright is a free agent and can't be traded for.
2. Even if traded for just Miles a sign and trade with Rozier doesn't work.
3. Miles still has an option on his contract, which he probably does opt into but isn't a given if he finds out about a possible trade and doesn't want to go to New Orleans.
You really probably should research your trades before posting your ideas. You keep putting a signed and traded Rozier into trades and they don't work.
And I am sorry, I do not accept an explanation that Ainge can just find any team with cap space to use in a 3 way. If you believe that, find that team in your research, explain why Rozier would want to go to that team, explain why that team gets involved and find that other player that is going out.
1) Dual sign and trade.
2 and 3) Does work assuming that Miles opts in (not sure why he would opt out, as he will get playing time in Memphis and boost his value for 1 last contract.
Lastly, teams make moves with their capspace all the time, it is perfectly reasonable to assume that danny can find a team that would make a sign and trade happen, in fact, team doesnt even NEED capspace, only a desire for, in this instance, terry rozier. And yes I know that sign and trade with teams over the cap are difficult, but that is the word isnt it, difficult, not impossible.
So in other words you are just going to suggest trades that are almost impossible to do and not explaining how it gets done. Okay. Good. I guess we can all just ignore your trade suggestions.
-
Wonder if Grizz would trade the pick (if 7 or 8) to C's to avoid having to give up the future pick promised?
In terms of the tank and rebuild and the weak draft it may make sense. C's may prefer the high first now for trade ammo.
If the Celtics/Grizz wanted to they could do a trade/agreement to remove the protection and get the pick this year.
Multiple credible Boston beat reporters and multiple credible national reporters have stated the Celtics Organization does not want the pick this year.
I do not get why people seem to doubt that the C's Org. would rather have the pick roll over STILL.
Even if you are correct, not wanting the pick at 9 or worse, doesn't mean they might not be ok with the pick at 7, especially since 7 is the best they can do next year if it conveys.
If they throw in Wright in the deal too....then absolutely.
I know that wright cannot be traded until the 29th of June, but a 3 way deal.
Memphis pick (Should it land in the 5-7 range)
Wright
Miles
for
Rozier S&T
perhaps a second rounder for a little more incentive if needed.
Memphis gets their pick back, adds a young PG that will allow them to trade off Conley for wing upgrades.
Tatum, Memphis pick (5-7), Clipper Pick, CJ Miles, Boston 2nd rounder, Boston 2021 First, Williams, Yabusele,
for
Davis
Irving/Wright
Smart/Brown
Hayward/Sacramento Pick
Horford/Theis
Davis/Baynes
Regarding your Memphis trade, it's impossible.
1. Wright is a free agent and can't be traded for.
2. Even if traded for just Miles a sign and trade with Rozier doesn't work.
3. Miles still has an option on his contract, which he probably does opt into but isn't a given if he finds out about a possible trade and doesn't want to go to New Orleans.
You really probably should research your trades before posting your ideas. You keep putting a signed and traded Rozier into trades and they don't work.
And I am sorry, I do not accept an explanation that Ainge can just find any team with cap space to use in a 3 way. If you believe that, find that team in your research, explain why Rozier would want to go to that team, explain why that team gets involved and find that other player that is going out.
1) Dual sign and trade.
2 and 3) Does work assuming that Miles opts in (not sure why he would opt out, as he will get playing time in Memphis and boost his value for 1 last contract.
Lastly, teams make moves with their capspace all the time, it is perfectly reasonable to assume that danny can find a team that would make a sign and trade happen, in fact, team doesnt even NEED capspace, only a desire for, in this instance, terry rozier. And yes I know that sign and trade with teams over the cap are difficult, but that is the word isnt it, difficult, not impossible.
So in other words you are just going to suggest trades that are almost impossible to do and not explaining how it gets done. Okay. Good. I guess we can all just ignore your trade suggestions.
No. I think I was pretty clear in regards to why memphis would accept a trade of rozier. In fact I though it was pretty clear....memphis will trade conley and needs a pg. Rozier wants to start and get paid.
Since you are not offering much in ways of countering that outside of"thats really hard to do" we should all just ignore your counterpoints.
-
Wonder if Grizz would trade the pick (if 7 or 8) to C's to avoid having to give up the future pick promised?
In terms of the tank and rebuild and the weak draft it may make sense. C's may prefer the high first now for trade ammo.
If the Celtics/Grizz wanted to they could do a trade/agreement to remove the protection and get the pick this year.
Multiple credible Boston beat reporters and multiple credible national reporters have stated the Celtics Organization does not want the pick this year.
I do not get why people seem to doubt that the C's Org. would rather have the pick roll over STILL.
Even if you are correct, not wanting the pick at 9 or worse, doesn't mean they might not be ok with the pick at 7, especially since 7 is the best they can do next year if it conveys.
If they throw in Wright in the deal too....then absolutely.
I know that wright cannot be traded until the 29th of June, but a 3 way deal.
Memphis pick (Should it land in the 5-7 range)
Wright
Miles
for
Rozier S&T
perhaps a second rounder for a little more incentive if needed.
Memphis gets their pick back, adds a young PG that will allow them to trade off Conley for wing upgrades.
Tatum, Memphis pick (5-7), Clipper Pick, CJ Miles, Boston 2nd rounder, Boston 2021 First, Williams, Yabusele,
for
Davis
Irving/Wright
Smart/Brown
Hayward/Sacramento Pick
Horford/Theis
Davis/Baynes
Regarding your Memphis trade, it's impossible.
1. Wright is a free agent and can't be traded for.
2. Even if traded for just Miles a sign and trade with Rozier doesn't work.
3. Miles still has an option on his contract, which he probably does opt into but isn't a given if he finds out about a possible trade and doesn't want to go to New Orleans.
You really probably should research your trades before posting your ideas. You keep putting a signed and traded Rozier into trades and they don't work.
And I am sorry, I do not accept an explanation that Ainge can just find any team with cap space to use in a 3 way. If you believe that, find that team in your research, explain why Rozier would want to go to that team, explain why that team gets involved and find that other player that is going out.
1) Dual sign and trade.
2 and 3) Does work assuming that Miles opts in (not sure why he would opt out, as he will get playing time in Memphis and boost his value for 1 last contract.
Lastly, teams make moves with their capspace all the time, it is perfectly reasonable to assume that danny can find a team that would make a sign and trade happen, in fact, team doesnt even NEED capspace, only a desire for, in this instance, terry rozier. And yes I know that sign and trade with teams over the cap are difficult, but that is the word isnt it, difficult, not impossible.
So in other words you are just going to suggest trades that are almost impossible to do and not explaining how it gets done. Okay. Good. I guess we can all just ignore your trade suggestions.
No. I think I was pretty clear in regards to why memphis would accept a trade of rozier. In fact I though it was pretty clear....memphis will trade conley and needs a pg. Rozier wants to start and get paid.
Since you are not offering much in ways of countering that outside of"thats really hard to do" we should all just ignore your counterpoints.
That's not really how it works. The onus is on you to explain how and why this gets done, and you haven't done that to any considerable extent
-
the pick watch continues for now
:D
-
the pick watch continues for now
:D
So if Ja Morant is the next D'Aaron Fox, and they bottom out next year and add another superstar... we could be lookin at another late lotto pick.
-
the pick watch continues for now
:D
So if Ja Morant is the next D'Aaron Fox, and they bottom out next year and add another superstar... we could be lookin at another late lotto pick.
So D'Aaron Fox is a superstar but the '18-'19 Celtics only had one star?? Some consistency would be nice
-
the pick watch continues for now
:D
So if Ja Morant is the next D'Aaron Fox, and they bottom out next year and add another superstar... we could be lookin at another late lotto pick.
Yup
-
the pick watch continues for now
:D
So if Ja Morant is the next D'Aaron Fox, and they bottom out next year and add another superstar... we could be lookin at another late lotto pick.
Yeah not expecting more than a late lottery pick in 2020 or 2021. Thought the pick watch was over when the Lakers moved up. Still fun to pick watch during the regular season slog.
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I dont think they can really bottom out next year without a lot of risk given these new lottery odds. Look what happened this year. We probably get something 7-12 next year
-
I dont think they can really bottom out next year without a lot of risk given these new lottery odds. Look what happened this year. We probably get something 7-12 next year
likely
Memphis have no reason to sukk
and with the #2 pick plus Conley Jr. should fetch a nice return
Memphis pick next season probably won't be a good one
-
I dont think they can really bottom out next year without a lot of risk given these new lottery odds. Look what happened this year. We probably get something 7-12 next year
likely
Memphis have no reason to sukk
and with the #2 pick plus Conley Jr. should fetch a nice return
Memphis pick next season probably won't be a good one
everyone is better than Memphis
That's one reason to suck
-
I dont think they can really bottom out next year without a lot of risk given these new lottery odds. Look what happened this year. We probably get something 7-12 next year
likely
Memphis have no reason to sukk
and with the #2 pick plus Conley Jr. should fetch a nice return
Memphis pick next season probably won't be a good one
everyone is better than Memphis
That's one reason to suck
its not that
Nets couldn't wait to play well and not give the Celts all those high picks
but they had jack to work with
Memphis already has Jackson jr. Who looks great
#2 is likely Morant .... and Conley Jr. could fetch at least a couple of good prospects
Not saying they will make the playoffs...but a pick outside of top 5-6 is a definite possibility
-
I dont think they can really bottom out next year without a lot of risk given these new lottery odds. Look what happened this year. We probably get something 7-12 next year
likely
Memphis have no reason to sukk
and with the #2 pick plus Conley Jr. should fetch a nice return
Memphis pick next season probably won't be a good one
everyone is better than Memphis
That's one reason to suck
its not that
Nets couldn't wait to play well and not give the Celts all those high picks
but they had jack to work with
Memphis already has Jackson jr. Who looks great
#2 is likely Morant .... and Conley Jr. could fetch at least a couple of good prospects
Not saying they will make the playoffs...but a pick outside of top 5-6 is a definite possibility
It's possible, but it's also almost always the case that youth doesn't lead to wins. The Kings this year were an aberration, rather than what typically happens.
-
the pick watch continues for now
:D
So if Ja Morant is the next D'Aaron Fox, and they bottom out next year and add another superstar... we could be lookin at another late lotto pick.
So if two unlikely things happen, we MIGHT get a pick that at worse will be a 5 spots lower than the one we would have gotten this year in a better draft with a 5-10% chance of moving up into the top 4? Sign me up.
-
the pick watch continues for now
:D
So if Ja Morant is the next D'Aaron Fox, and they bottom out next year and add another superstar... we could be lookin at another late lotto pick.
So if two unlikely things happen, we MIGHT get a pick that at worse will be a 5 spots lower than the one we would have gotten this year in a better draft with a 5-10% chance of moving up into the top 4? Sign me up.
he literally thinks any pick below #4 is worthless (even though 99% of players right now in the ECF were picked below 10)
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Source: Barring the unexpected, Memphis Grizzlies front office and ownership appear to have locked in on selecting Ja Morant with the No. 2 pick in the 2019 NBA Draft, and are informing parties in Chicago of such. That clears the way for R.J. Barrett to fall to the Knicks at #3.
https://twitter.com/DraftExpress/status/1128799179684368385