Surgery for Rob (out 8-12 weeks)

[celticinorlando]

Boston’s bench is utterly depressing and will be the reason they don’t win the title.

Kornet, Hauser, probably Layman, Kabengale, Vonleah are all unplayable in meaningful games.

Still struggling to understand what Brad is thinking constructing this bad of bench.

[td450]

Boston’s bench is utterly depressing and will be the reason they don’t win the title.

Kornet, Hauser, probably Layman, Kabengale, Vonleah are all unplayable in meaningful games.

Still struggling to understand what Brad is thinking constructing this bad of bench.

I'm pretty hopeful about Kabengele. What can make these journeymen bigs unplayable is free throw shooting and Kabengele is a very good free throw shooter.

Hopefully he has the basketball intellect to pick up the C's schemes, but he's got an ideal athletic profile to be the type of high energy defensive/rebounding big we want. I think he might be just what we need, and if he can do it, it is a huge win for this team.

[Roy H.]

Boston’s bench is utterly depressing and will be the reason they don’t win the title.

Kornet, Hauser, probably Layman, Kabengale, Vonleah are all unplayable in meaningful games.

Still struggling to understand what Brad is thinking constructing this bad of bench.

I'm pretty hopeful about Kabengele. What can make these journeymen bigs unplayable is free throw shooting and Kabengele is a very good free throw shooter.

Hopefully he has the basketball intellect to pick up the C's schemes, but he's got an ideal athletic profile to be the type of high energy defensive/rebounding big we want. I think he might be just what we need, and if he can do it, it is a huge win for this team.

It's kind of a no-risk proposition on a 2-way deal.  I don't want to see us elevate him to the active roster yet, but he'll get a chance to show he belongs.

I like our two 2-way players.  I like the Hauser signing as a low risk, moderate reward signing.  I'd be fine with Kornet, if he was a 3rd/4th center.  And I liked the Gallo signing, despite the bad luck.

But somewhere along the way, Brad decided he no longer needed to sign proven players for the bench.  I'm still confused by that. 

[celticinorlando]

Boston’s bench is utterly depressing and will be the reason they don’t win the title.

Kornet, Hauser, probably Layman, Kabengale, Vonleah are all unplayable in meaningful games.

Still struggling to understand what Brad is thinking constructing this bad of bench.

I'm pretty hopeful about Kabengele. What can make these journeymen bigs unplayable is free throw shooting and Kabengele is a very good free throw shooter.

Hopefully he has the basketball intellect to pick up the C's schemes, but he's got an ideal athletic profile to be the type of high energy defensive/rebounding big we want. I think he might be just what we need, and if he can do it, it is a huge win for this team.

I’d rather see him get minutes over Kornet. Kabengale at least is athletic and can move. He’s a rim runner. Kornet looks like a scarecrow out there. So wooden.

[td450]

Boston’s bench is utterly depressing and will be the reason they don’t win the title.

Kornet, Hauser, probably Layman, Kabengale, Vonleah are all unplayable in meaningful games.

Still struggling to understand what Brad is thinking constructing this bad of bench.

I'm pretty hopeful about Kabengele. What can make these journeymen bigs unplayable is free throw shooting and Kabengele is a very good free throw shooter.

Hopefully he has the basketball intellect to pick up the C's schemes, but he's got an ideal athletic profile to be the type of high energy defensive/rebounding big we want. I think he might be just what we need, and if he can do it, it is a huge win for this team.

It's kind of a no-risk proposition on a 2-way deal.  I don't want to see us elevate him to the active roster yet, but he'll get a chance to show he belongs.

I like our two 2-way players.  I like the Hauser signing as a low risk, moderate reward signing.  I'd be fine with Kornet, if he was a 3rd/4th center.  And I liked the Gallo signing, despite the bad luck.

But somewhere along the way, Brad decided he no longer needed to sign proven players for the bench.  I'm still confused by that.

We can't opt for any "no-risk proposition".  The existing roster will adjust to a degree, but someone new will need to play 15-20 minutes for at least 2 months. That has created a risk that must be met.

I think out of the guys we have, he's the best fit, and he should play those minutes to start off. He's the one with the best chance to be the defensive presence we want.

[Vermont Green]

Boston’s bench is utterly depressing and will be the reason they don’t win the title.

Kornet, Hauser, probably Layman, Kabengale, Vonleah are all unplayable in meaningful games.

Still struggling to understand what Brad is thinking constructing this bad of bench.

I think what Brad was thinking was that he added Gallinari and Brogdon to the bench and that things look pretty good.  What Brad is now thinking is probably something different.

But don't accept that all the Celtics had to do was say yes and they could have Whiteside or Cousins or whoever.  Those guys have not signed anywhere still.  My guess is LAL, MIA, BKN are all higher on their lists than Boston and that they are waiting.  What I am hoping is that now that RWill is hurt, one of these guys will see it as a chance to start the season as a starter, not deep on the bench and maybe Boston will be more attractive to them.  Of course the coaching situation/change probably makes it less attractive to these vets.

And I will keep being hopeful on Vonleh.  I don't put him in the same category as Kabengele or Layman.  Vonleh is 27 years old and has started 171 NBA games.  I get that he ended up in China so it is impossible to know just what you are going to get from him but he has far more track record than some of these other end of the bench guys.  I was totally fine with Vonleh as a depth piece when RWill and Gallinari were healthy but now I agree, we need to bring in a vet.  Vonleh should be useful in my mind but not as a 20-24 min regular rotation guy.  That may be a lot to ask (but he was more than that in NYK in 2018-19).

[bello_man09]

I have Zero Expetations from Vonleh

[Celtics2021]

I have Zero Expetations from Vonleh

Then you’re immune from disappointment!  Congrats!

[ozgod]

Boston’s bench is utterly depressing and will be the reason they don’t win the title.

Kornet, Hauser, probably Layman, Kabengale, Vonleah are all unplayable in meaningful games.

Still struggling to understand what Brad is thinking constructing this bad of bench.

That's the back half of the bench...the front half is pretty solid though. Brogdon, White, GWill. Those guys could possibly start for another team, at least the first two.

Injuries will be our bane because that's when the back half will be needed.

But I would be curious to see who the other contenders have for their 9-12 players...and how ours rank in comparison to theirs.

[Moranis]

Boston’s bench is utterly depressing and will be the reason they don’t win the title.

Kornet, Hauser, probably Layman, Kabengale, Vonleah are all unplayable in meaningful games.

Still struggling to understand what Brad is thinking constructing this bad of bench.

That's the back half of the bench...the front half is pretty solid though. Brogdon, White, GWill. Those guys could possibly start for another team, at least the first two.

Injuries will be our bane because that's when the back half will be needed.

But I would be curious to see who the other contenders have for their 9-12 players...and how ours rank in comparison to theirs.

Very bad.

Milwaukee 9-12 - Ingles, Ibaka, Hill, Carter - then 1st round pick Beauchamp and Thanasis in his 4th year in Milwaukee
Philadelphia 9-12 - Harrell, Niang, Reed, Korkmaz - then House and Joe
Miami a bit weaker 9-12 - Martin, Dedmon, Yurtseven, Jovic
Even the Nets are pretty solid 9-12 - Morris, O'Neale, Edwards, Sumner

Those are probably the 4 most likely teams, other than Boston, to win the East and part of the strength of the Cavs and Hawks is actually their depth.  Those 2 teams have perhaps the best back half of the roster in the conference (they just don't have the top end talent to really compete this year). 

[DefenseWinsChamps]

Boston’s bench is utterly depressing and will be the reason they don’t win the title.

Kornet, Hauser, probably Layman, Kabengale, Vonleah are all unplayable in meaningful games.

Still struggling to understand what Brad is thinking constructing this bad of bench.

That's the back half of the bench...the front half is pretty solid though. Brogdon, White, GWill. Those guys could possibly start for another team, at least the first two.

Injuries will be our bane because that's when the back half will be needed.

But I would be curious to see who the other contenders have for their 9-12 players...and how ours rank in comparison to theirs.

Very bad.

Milwaukee 9-12 - Ingles, Ibaka, Hill, Carter - then 1st round pick Beauchamp and Thanasis in his 4th year in Milwaukee
Philadelphia 9-12 - Harrell, Niang, Reed, Korkmaz - then House and Joe
Miami a bit weaker 9-12 - Martin, Dedmon, Yurtseven, Jovic
Even the Nets are pretty solid 9-12 - Morris, O'Neale, Edwards, Sumner

Those are probably the 4 most likely teams, other than Boston, to win the East and part of the strength of the Cavs and Hawks is actually their depth.  Those 2 teams have perhaps the best back half of the roster in the conference (they just don't have the top end talent to really compete this year).

I feel like this list works against you more than realize. Many of these players are riding the fade of their previous reputation, but aren't anywhere close to the players they were.

Bucks - Ingles might have a rebound year, but he was terrible before he got injured last year. Ibaka and Hill couldn't get on the floor much last year, and aren't reliable. Carter is solid. Beauchamp has upside, but nothing actual yet. Giannis' brother is pretty much another Fernando.

Philadelphia - This is probably the most solid team out there. All of them are productive, but very flawed players.

Miami a bit weaker 9-12 - Martin was desperately needed against the Celtics, but was inconsistent. Dedmon is aging becoming less effective. Yurtseven is a solid prospect that's already been productive in stints, but can be one-dimensional. Jovic struggled significantly in summer leage and isn't ready to be a contributer.

Nets - Morris hasn't been an effective player on teams that needed him since the Celtics beat the Wizards in the playoffs. O'Neale has never been able to consistently shoot and his defense went off cliff last year. Edwards is an unproven prospect. Sumner I like, but is as unproven as Edwards.

Hauser and Kabengele are both similar rotation players and prospects as multiple players on that list. I'd like another two veterans (Gallo was one of those guys), but what are you going to do? All of those teams will likely have injuries too that shorten their bench at some point.

Also, our top 8 is as good or better than those teams, and come playoff time, its your top 8 that matter.

[Celtics2021]

Boston’s bench is utterly depressing and will be the reason they don’t win the title.

Kornet, Hauser, probably Layman, Kabengale, Vonleah are all unplayable in meaningful games.

Still struggling to understand what Brad is thinking constructing this bad of bench.

That's the back half of the bench...the front half is pretty solid though. Brogdon, White, GWill. Those guys could possibly start for another team, at least the first two.

Injuries will be our bane because that's when the back half will be needed.

But I would be curious to see who the other contenders have for their 9-12 players...and how ours rank in comparison to theirs.

Very bad.

Milwaukee 9-12 - Ingles, Ibaka, Hill, Carter - then 1st round pick Beauchamp and Thanasis in his 4th year in Milwaukee
Philadelphia 9-12 - Harrell, Niang, Reed, Korkmaz - then House and Joe
Miami a bit weaker 9-12 - Martin, Dedmon, Yurtseven, Jovic
Even the Nets are pretty solid 9-12 - Morris, O'Neale, Edwards, Sumner

Those are probably the 4 most likely teams, other than Boston, to win the East and part of the strength of the Cavs and Hawks is actually their depth.  Those 2 teams have perhaps the best back half of the roster in the conference (they just don't have the top end talent to really compete this year).

I feel like this list works against you more than realize. Many of these players are riding the fade of their previous reputation, but aren't anywhere close to the players they were.

Bucks - Ingles might have a rebound year, but he was terrible before he got injured last year. Ibaka and Hill couldn't get on the floor much last year, and aren't reliable. Carter is solid. Beauchamp has upside, but nothing actual yet. Giannis' brother is pretty much another Fernando.

Philadelphia - This is probably the most solid team out there. All of them are productive, but very flawed players.

Miami a bit weaker 9-12 - Martin was desperately needed against the Celtics, but was inconsistent. Dedmon is aging becoming less effective. Yurtseven is a solid prospect that's already been productive in stints, but can be one-dimensional. Jovic struggled significantly in summer leage and isn't ready to be a contributer.

Nets - Morris hasn't been an effective player on teams that needed him since the Celtics beat the Wizards in the playoffs. O'Neale has never been able to consistently shoot and his defense went off cliff last year. Edwards is an unproven prospect. Sumner I like, but is as unproven as Edwards.

Hauser and Kabengele are both similar rotation players and prospects as multiple players on that list. I'd like another two veterans (Gallo was one of those guys), but what are you going to do? All of those teams will likely have injuries too that shorten their bench at some point.

Also, our top 8 is as good or better than those teams, and come playoff time, its your top 8 that matter.

Wholeheartedly agree, and even Philly’s is overrated.  Kurkmaz was awful last year, and Philly would love to dump him.

[Moranis]

Boston’s bench is utterly depressing and will be the reason they don’t win the title.

Kornet, Hauser, probably Layman, Kabengale, Vonleah are all unplayable in meaningful games.

Still struggling to understand what Brad is thinking constructing this bad of bench.

That's the back half of the bench...the front half is pretty solid though. Brogdon, White, GWill. Those guys could possibly start for another team, at least the first two.

Injuries will be our bane because that's when the back half will be needed.

But I would be curious to see who the other contenders have for their 9-12 players...and how ours rank in comparison to theirs.

Very bad.

Milwaukee 9-12 - Ingles, Ibaka, Hill, Carter - then 1st round pick Beauchamp and Thanasis in his 4th year in Milwaukee
Philadelphia 9-12 - Harrell, Niang, Reed, Korkmaz - then House and Joe
Miami a bit weaker 9-12 - Martin, Dedmon, Yurtseven, Jovic
Even the Nets are pretty solid 9-12 - Morris, O'Neale, Edwards, Sumner

Those are probably the 4 most likely teams, other than Boston, to win the East and part of the strength of the Cavs and Hawks is actually their depth.  Those 2 teams have perhaps the best back half of the roster in the conference (they just don't have the top end talent to really compete this year).

I feel like this list works against you more than realize. Many of these players are riding the fade of their previous reputation, but aren't anywhere close to the players they were.

Bucks - Ingles might have a rebound year, but he was terrible before he got injured last year. Ibaka and Hill couldn't get on the floor much last year, and aren't reliable. Carter is solid. Beauchamp has upside, but nothing actual yet. Giannis' brother is pretty much another Fernando.

Philadelphia - This is probably the most solid team out there. All of them are productive, but very flawed players.

Miami a bit weaker 9-12 - Martin was desperately needed against the Celtics, but was inconsistent. Dedmon is aging becoming less effective. Yurtseven is a solid prospect that's already been productive in stints, but can be one-dimensional. Jovic struggled significantly in summer leage and isn't ready to be a contributer.

Nets - Morris hasn't been an effective player on teams that needed him since the Celtics beat the Wizards in the playoffs. O'Neale has never been able to consistently shoot and his defense went off cliff last year. Edwards is an unproven prospect. Sumner I like, but is as unproven as Edwards.

Hauser and Kabengele are both similar rotation players and prospects as multiple players on that list. I'd like another two veterans (Gallo was one of those guys), but what are you going to do? All of those teams will likely have injuries too that shorten their bench at some point.

Also, our top 8 is as good or better than those teams, and come playoff time, its your top 8 that matter.

Sure, but the Bucks have a better top 8 and will have the best player on the floor, and are deeper.  The Celtics best strength is 4-8 on the roster.  Very few teams can match up as well as the C's from that part of the roster, but 1-3 is a bit weaker than the true contenders and 9-15 the C's are awful. 

I have no idea if Hauser is going to end up a rotation piece, no one does, but all of those teams have players that have actually been rotation players for teams over the last couple of years.  And even a guy like Thanasis, who is the 14th man on the Bucks, played in 48 games and 10 mpg for the Bucks last year, even starting 6 games and the year before he played in 57 games, also at just under 10 mpg.  I'd take a guy like that on Boston's deep bench, you know someone that has actually played a fair amount of minutes recently instead of guys like Kabengele and Vonleh who weren't even in the league last year or Kornet who played a whopping 103 minutes last year and who has had his minutes drop for 3 straight seasons. 

Boston very clearly has a depth issue.  It is obvious looking at the roster.  You can't go into a season that you are expecting to contend with at least 5 flyers on the roster.  They all basically have to hit for the roster to work out, and that isn't going to happen. 

[Moranis]

Boston’s bench is utterly depressing and will be the reason they don’t win the title.

Kornet, Hauser, probably Layman, Kabengale, Vonleah are all unplayable in meaningful games.

Still struggling to understand what Brad is thinking constructing this bad of bench.

That's the back half of the bench...the front half is pretty solid though. Brogdon, White, GWill. Those guys could possibly start for another team, at least the first two.

Injuries will be our bane because that's when the back half will be needed.

But I would be curious to see who the other contenders have for their 9-12 players...and how ours rank in comparison to theirs.

Very bad.

Milwaukee 9-12 - Ingles, Ibaka, Hill, Carter - then 1st round pick Beauchamp and Thanasis in his 4th year in Milwaukee
Philadelphia 9-12 - Harrell, Niang, Reed, Korkmaz - then House and Joe
Miami a bit weaker 9-12 - Martin, Dedmon, Yurtseven, Jovic
Even the Nets are pretty solid 9-12 - Morris, O'Neale, Edwards, Sumner

Those are probably the 4 most likely teams, other than Boston, to win the East and part of the strength of the Cavs and Hawks is actually their depth.  Those 2 teams have perhaps the best back half of the roster in the conference (they just don't have the top end talent to really compete this year).

I feel like this list works against you more than realize. Many of these players are riding the fade of their previous reputation, but aren't anywhere close to the players they were.

Bucks - Ingles might have a rebound year, but he was terrible before he got injured last year. Ibaka and Hill couldn't get on the floor much last year, and aren't reliable. Carter is solid. Beauchamp has upside, but nothing actual yet. Giannis' brother is pretty much another Fernando.

Philadelphia - This is probably the most solid team out there. All of them are productive, but very flawed players.

Miami a bit weaker 9-12 - Martin was desperately needed against the Celtics, but was inconsistent. Dedmon is aging becoming less effective. Yurtseven is a solid prospect that's already been productive in stints, but can be one-dimensional. Jovic struggled significantly in summer leage and isn't ready to be a contributer.

Nets - Morris hasn't been an effective player on teams that needed him since the Celtics beat the Wizards in the playoffs. O'Neale has never been able to consistently shoot and his defense went off cliff last year. Edwards is an unproven prospect. Sumner I like, but is as unproven as Edwards.

Hauser and Kabengele are both similar rotation players and prospects as multiple players on that list. I'd like another two veterans (Gallo was one of those guys), but what are you going to do? All of those teams will likely have injuries too that shorten their bench at some point.

Also, our top 8 is as good or better than those teams, and come playoff time, its your top 8 that matter.

Wholeheartedly agree, and even Philly’s is overrated.  Kurkmaz was awful last year, and Philly would love to dump him.

And he still played over 1400 minutes for the Sixers.  I'd take him for the deep bench and wouldn't give it a second thought and hope his shooting touch returns (even with his awful 28.9% from 3 last year, he is still at 35.5% for his career, the 3 years before that he shot just under 38% from 3).  Remember, Korkmaz is somewhere around Philly's 12th man.  That is basically Kornet for Boston.  Korkmaz is much preferred to Kornet. 

[tenn_smoothie]

In about two weeks, we went from being declared the deepest team in the league to being desperate for quality bench players.

who declared Boston the deepest team in the league?  certainly no one that knows anything about basketball.  Not with a team of only 10 quality players and 5 worthless spots on the bench.

ESPN did - check their 30-team analysis article from a couple of weeks ago, before our guys started dropping like flies.