ESPN Radio: Is Paul Pierce a HOF'er?

[Roy Hobbs]

To me there are 5 unquestionable locks, about 3-5 behind them that are 95% or better to get in early, probably 1st ballot, and then Pierce falls in a group of 3-5 behind them.  So like I said earlier... yes, I think he'll get in, but 1st ballot shoe-in?  Not yet.

Who are the locks?

KG, Shaq, Kobe, Duncan, Lebron (barring injury), Iverson

That's the six off the top of my head that will clearly get in before Pierce.  Everyone else is debatable, depending upon health, etc.

[BudweiserCeltic]

To me there are 5 unquestionable locks, about 3-5 behind them that are 95% or better to get in early, probably 1st ballot, and then Pierce falls in a group of 3-5 behind them.  So like I said earlier... yes, I think he'll get in, but 1st ballot shoe-in?  Not yet.

I agree with this also, BT, and meant to say so (TP) ... while I think he'll definitely be inducted, I doubt it will be with the first ballot, and certainly not a "shoe-in".

Well, his career is not done... I think a couple of more championships will seal the deal, especially with his new defensive stopper reputation. That should help him plenty.

[Big Ticket]

To me there are 5 unquestionable locks, about 3-5 behind them that are 95% or better to get in early, probably 1st ballot, and then Pierce falls in a group of 3-5 behind them.  So like I said earlier... yes, I think he'll get in, but 1st ballot shoe-in?  Not yet.

Who are the locks?

KG, Shaq, Kobe, Duncan, Lebron (barring injury), Iverson

That's the six off the top of my head that will clearly get in before Pierce.  Everyone else is debatable, depending upon health, etc.

This is if they stopped playing today (so not LeBron quite yet in no doubt shoe-in group... although there might be enough hype anyways).

Locks (in order)
Duncan
Shaq
KG
Kobe
Iverson

Next Group
Nash
Dirk
Kidd
LeBron

Others
I think Pierce leads a group of guys behind these 9.  Others behind him are Ray and McGrady, as well as recent retirees Webber, Payton, and Mourning.  The reason I think Pierce WILL be a shoe-in is because I think he is the most likely to add to his credentials out of these players.  Honestly, I am very tempted to put him in that group with Nash, Dirk, Kidd, and LeBron... I know he belongs there, but I'm trying to where the Hall of Fame hat when I say this, not based on my own feelings.  Those 4 have many 1st Team All NBA selections and some MVPS between them, and the Hall weights those quite a bit.

[wdleehi]

Pierce is now set to force himself into the Hall of Fame.


Finals MVP. 


His playoffs raised his media rating to the next level.  To the level where they put you 1st team all NBA.  The level where you are an actual MVP canidate.


If the Celtics win another title, I think all three make it. 

[Dybdal]

I might step on some toe's by speaking my mind regarding this!

In my mind, if Pierce is HoF matirial but DJ isnt (or lets say Pierce gets in before DJ, if he ever gets in) then id find that beyond distastefull, no disrepect to our Captain, but over the course of an entire carrer i would say DJ diserves it more than Pierce currently does.

Do i hope both of them gets into the hall? yes, but i do hope DJ gets in there before the captain

[Hoops]

McGrady is not and will not be an HOFer. It's sad that anyone would suggest otherwise. His impact on the game of basketball has been minimal. 15 years from now, he'll be remembered about as much as Hersey Hawkins is now.

[Bahku]

I might step on some toe's by speaking my mind regarding this!

In my mind, if Pierce is HoF matirial but DJ isnt (or lets say Pierce gets in before DJ, if he ever gets in) then id find that beyond distastefull, no disrepect to our Captain, but over the course of an entire carrer i would say DJ diserves it more than Pierce currently does.

Do i hope both of them gets into the hall? yes, but i do hope DJ gets in there before the captain

I certainly want DJ to make it into the Hall, and it's a travesty that he didn't get there this year especially. However, I'm not quite sure I agree with the sentiment that DJ deserves it more than Paul ... and I'm curious as to why you see it that way.

DJ was not a Celtic for anywhere near as long as Paul has been, was not a Celtic for his entire career, (like Paul has been, and most likey will be), did not put up the stats that Pierce has already, did not carry a franchise by himself for a decade, and on and on.

Like I said, I hope DJ gets in as much as anyone does, but I wouldn't say he deserves it more than the Truth ... in fact, I would say that of the two, Pierce is the most deserving, and this isn't a "new-school" thing, as I've been a die-hard Celtic fan for over 40 years.

[Roy Hobbs]

McGrady is not and will not be an HOFer. It's sad that anyone would suggest otherwise. His impact on the game of basketball has been minimal. 15 years from now, he'll be remembered about as much as Hersey Hawkins is now.

He's got good credentials, though, and that's all some people seem to look at.

Seven time all-star
Seven times all-NBA
Six times in top-10 in MVP voting
Two scoring titles

Of course, the credential that may keep him out:  zero playoff series victories.

[TheReaLPuba]

If PP has 3 more years of 16-19 ppg; 3-5 rpg; 2-4 apg; 2 b/spg with consistent defense he is going to make the HOF.

I don't see him not doing this so I would say barring from serious injury he is going to make the HOF 99.9998%.

[paintitgreen]

I don't think he's a shoe-in or a first ballot yet, but I definitely think he is a Hall of Famer.

He's played 10 seasons and missed only 56 games in that entire time. He's averaged 23.1 points per game (which, by the way, is good for 21st ALL TIME and is ahead of Dirk, T-Mac, Ray and Duncan), 6.4 rebounds, 3.9 assists and 1.6 steals.  He's 77th all time in points, ahead of Hall of Famers like Worthy, Dumars, Sam Jones, Walt Frazier, Dave Cowens and Tommy Heinsohn. And deserved or not, winning a championship and a Finals MVP jumps somebody up considerably.

The fact that he's never made All-NBA First or Second Team has nothing to do with it. He should have made one of those teams, he just didn't get the notoriety because his teammates were so bad or he was just snubbed. In 01-02, he was third in the league in scoring, played all 82 for a 49 win team, threw in 7 boards, 3 assists, 2 steals and a block game, but still only managed to make the Third Team. T-Mac made the first team playing 6 fewer games for a team that won 5 fewer games, with stats of 25.6-7.9-5.3-1.6-1.0. Kobe made the first team over Pierce even though the only stat where he was ahead of Pierce was assists (5.5 to 3.2) and he had Shaq on his team to help that squad to 9 more wins than the Cs. Ahead of him on the second team were Allen Iverson (31.4 points, but on .398 shooting, 4.5 boards, 5.5 assists, 2.8 steals, all impressive but he only played 60 games on a 43 win team) and Gary Payton (had 22 and 9, team won 45, 4 less than Boston). Chris Webber also made the second team despite only playing in 54 games.

Pierce should have made at least the Second Team in 01-02, and probably 02-03, too, but got snubbed because he had no rep up to that point. By the time he had a rep, the Celtics were worse than before and he could get no love. Finally, this year, when he put together his best all around season and captained his team to an easily league-best 66 wins, he gets relegated to Third Team and even finishes behind Carlos Boozer. He should have been Second Team again this year, but got no love for no good reason.

Bottom line, Pierce is a Hall of Famer. No doubt in my mind.

[Hoops]

McGrady is not and will not be an HOFer. It's sad that anyone would suggest otherwise. His impact on the game of basketball has been minimal. 15 years from now, he'll be remembered about as much as Hersey Hawkins is now.

He's got good credentials, though, and that's all some people seem to look at.

Seven time all-star
Seven times all-NBA
Six times in top-10 in MVP voting
Two scoring titles

Of course, the credential that may keep him out:  zero playoff series victories.

Well, exactly - a lot of people will look at his "glamorous" credentials - he scores lots of points and he's been in lots of All-star games. Oh, and we've seen him in lots of Sprite commercials...or whatever company endorses him - I don't pay attention. But as you point out, he's never won a playoff series. That's [dang]ing if anything is. And again, when we view him with hindsight, what will we remember that makes him so worthy? Unless something drastic changes, I don't think we'll remember anything.

BTW, since this thread is about Pierce, let me add that I believe Pierce, given his resume (including the championship) gets in. For sure. 1st ballot? Let's see how the rest of his career plays out.

[winsomme]

Mike Tirrico and his radio partner today (forgot his name) posed the question, was Paul Piece worthy of the hall of fame?  Tirrico was on the fence, his partner was adamantly opposed to Pierce being HOF worthy. 

The guy's arguments were, in my opinion, foolish. He basically rejected Pierce because Pierce never made the All NBA first or second team, and never finished in the top 10 in MVP votes.  How ironic that this guy is criticizing Pierce for getting enough votes for those dubious honors, which historically go to the guys on winning teams and great TV exposure. 

This play-off run was, among many wonderful things, a coming out party for Captian Pierce.  Main stream media finally noted, "wow, this Pierce fellow is really good. Where has he been hiding all these years?" Or worse, they claim that Pierce has for the first time this year became a great all around player.  As Celtic fans know, Pierce's overall game made a dramatic transformation when Doc Rivers arrived, turning him into a more complete player for the last several years.

Several ESPN analysts chimed in on Pierce. Michelle Tafoye (sp) said that this play-off run turned Pierce into a HOFer.  Greg Anthony said that Pierce was a HOFer in his book, before the play-offs even started. Ditto Jon Barry. Stephen A. Smith said that Pierce is getting in the HOF discussion but has more to prove before being admitted.

Am I just being a homer when I say that Pierce is a shoo-in??

two things:

any argument about Pierce being a HOFer is just more confirmation that he is one of the most underrated players of all-time.

and the reasoning used by the analyst basically amounts to "we've been underrating him his whole career (ie never put him on first or second All-NBA and never put him in top 10 in MVP voting) so why should we stop underrating him by putting him in the HOF...."

plus, not being top 10 in MVP voting this year is absurd.

fortunately, the tide is turning and there are fewer and fewer who do not appreciate what Pierce has done as a player....

i wrote this in another thread, but i think it is appropriate here.

the only reasons that there is any doubt about Pierce as an HOFer are:

1) he did have the early success a la a Bird or a Magic or a TD

2) he doesn't the crazy athleticism of a Jordan or a Kobe

3) he didn't have the heralded arrival in the NBA of a LerBron

there is not a lot of flash in his game, but finding a hole in it is very difficult.

[Roy Hobbs]

and the reasoning used by the analyst basically amounts to "we've been underestimating him his whole career (ie never put him on first or second All-NBA and never put him in top 10 in MVP voting) so why should we stop underestimating him by putting him in the HOF...."

Very well said, winsomme.

[Dybdal]

I might step on some toe's by speaking my mind regarding this!

In my mind, if Pierce is HoF matirial but DJ isnt (or lets say Pierce gets in before DJ, if he ever gets in) then id find that beyond distastefull, no disrepect to our Captain, but over the course of an entire carrer i would say DJ diserves it more than Pierce currently does.

Do i hope both of them gets into the hall? yes, but i do hope DJ gets in there before the captain

I certainly want DJ to make it into the Hall, and it's a travesty that he didn't get there this year especially. However, I'm not quite sure I agree with the sentiment that DJ deserves it more than Paul ... and I'm curious as to why you see it that way.

DJ was not a Celtic for anywhere near as long as Paul has been, was not a Celtic for his entire career, (like Paul has been, and most likey will be), did not put up the stats that Pierce has already, did not carry a franchise by himself for a decade, and on and on.

Like I said, I hope DJ gets in as much as anyone does, but I wouldn't say he deserves it more than the Truth ... in fact, I would say that of the two, Pierce is the most deserving, and this isn't a "new-school" thing, as I've been a die-hard Celtic fan for over 40 years.

Why i think DJ diserves it more? truth be told (no phun intended) it's absolutly got something to do with my dad, my dad worshiped DJ for his time with the Celtics and i guess that carry's on, i was very young during the Bird era, so my memorys are based on the small glimpses of images i can remember from going to the garden as a 4-5yr old, watching old BetaMax tapes with my dad of old games and listening to storys and my dad's facial expression would allways light up to its brightest when he was talking about the time he meet DJ (and Bill Russel) in boston.

You have to imagin a father looking back at old baby pictures from 20-30 years ago, you can see that glow of pure happyness around the person allmost like a aura, my dad gets that when you get him going on old times in Boston, meeting my mom, seeing my birth, and the times he meet DJ and Bill Russel

As everything on this site, its got something to do with feelings (thats why i said "i might end up stepping on some toes" because i know most boston sports fans, adore the players that grows up and retires a boston player that most, and DJ dosnt fit that catagory, and that dosnt take into account what Paul has brought to the city of Boston this year) i know DJ wasnt a life long celtic, i know he wasnt a "core" part of the team that grew to a championship contender during the 80's, but to me DJ is and allways will be the one i'll remember the most vividly from those teams!

Anyway wanted to post some more stuff that went though my head about this topic but it's getting late (2:47 at night) and the baby's asleep again (yeah i log on my computer in the middle of the night to check celticsblog after the baby has woken up and its my turn to get her to sleep again, might aswell use the time for something)

Anywho, feel free to ask aditional questions if your not satisfied with my answers or something was left completly unanswered.

//Dybdal

[rondofan1255]

I don't put much value onto who's All NBA 1st team, 2nd team, etc. I've never ever paid attention to those things.

However, considering the HoF crew, I say just one more ring, and an awesome season, should do it for PP.

Ray, I'm not so sure about, though he's put up good numbers in past years. He's been maybe 3rd team once? Anyways, he's one of the purest shooters so I think he is a question mark, and validate his career more with another ring, and another awesome season.