Author Topic: CBPL Offseason 2015 Rules Discussion  (Read 42809 times)

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Re: CBPL Offseason 2015 Rules Discussion
« Reply #15 on: July 26, 2015, 10:53:10 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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I think #1 is a tad vague at the moment.

I agree. We can try to sharpen it up a bit if people have suggestions.
Again, it should really go without saying, but a simple "Treat others with respect.   The commissioner reserves the right to remove anyone from the league at any time for inappropriate conduct" would be my suggestion.   

« Last Edit: July 26, 2015, 10:58:29 PM by LarBrd33 »

Re: CBPL Offseason 2015 Rules Discussion
« Reply #16 on: July 26, 2015, 10:56:46 PM »

Offline Rondo2287

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I think #1 is a tad vague at the moment.

I agree. We can try to sharpen it up a bit if people have suggestions.
Again, it should really go without saying, but a simple "Treat others with respect.   The commissioner reserves the right to remove anyone from the league at any time for inappropriate conduct" would be my suggestion.

I will sign off on this if pestering somebody after they ask not to be contacted is a bannable offense. 

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Re: CBPL Offseason 2015 Rules Discussion
« Reply #17 on: July 26, 2015, 10:58:42 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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I think #1 is a tad vague at the moment.

I agree. We can try to sharpen it up a bit if people have suggestions.
Again, it should really go without saying, but a simple "Treat others with respect.   The commissioner reserves the right to remove anyone from the league at any time for inappropriate conduct" would be my suggestion.

I will sign off on this if pestering somebody after they ask not to be contacted is a bannable offense.

I'd vote against the rule right now for the same reasons others are mentioning.  It's too broad and open to interpretation.  I don't need someone to say, "LarBrd33 undervalued my player and sent me too many trade offers... that's disrespectful... he needs to be warned".   The game is literally built around the concept of making trades.

I do, however, have faith in this commissioner's ability to listen to reason and common sense.   I've tried really hard to avoid commenting specifically on the recent situation, but I'll just say that from my perspective, people aren't going to get booted from this league without really crossing an obvious line.   If we need to spell it out that the commissioner reserves the right to remove someone for inappropriate/illegal activity, so be it... but it should go without saying. 

Re: CBPL Offseason 2015 Rules Discussion
« Reply #18 on: July 26, 2015, 10:59:15 PM »

Online hpantazo

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I think #1 is a tad vague at the moment.

I agree. We can try to sharpen it up a bit if people have suggestions.
Again, it should really go without saying, but a simple "Treat others with respect.   The commissioner reserves the right to remove anyone from the league at any time for inappropriate conduct" would be my suggestion.

I agree with GC that people refusing to let things go has been the major problem. I also think that your suggestion is a good one on how to set up this rule. I would add a 2 strike policy to it. Basically the commish will warn you once, and thats it. After that he can kick you out if he deems your behavior is unacceptable. I would also add that any GMs that have concerns regarding behavior of other GMs refrain from posting public comments about their concerns, and just PM or email the commish.

Re: CBPL Offseason 2015 Rules Discussion
« Reply #19 on: July 26, 2015, 11:05:14 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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I think #1 is a tad vague at the moment.

I agree. We can try to sharpen it up a bit if people have suggestions.
Again, it should really go without saying, but a simple "Treat others with respect.   The commissioner reserves the right to remove anyone from the league at any time for inappropriate conduct" would be my suggestion.

I will sign off on this if pestering somebody after they ask not to be contacted is a bannable offense.
I get what you're saying.  But to be clear, there's a difference between "Oh my god, he sent me one too many trade offers in a fantasy basketball league... oh my god, he thinks my player is worth a 2nd rounder... oh my god, he tried to tell me his fantasy basketball player is worth more than I think he is"  vs... sending vile, disgusting and hateful insults for months and repeatedly escalating the level of harassment after repeated requests to stop. 

To be clear, the level of insults and harassment I faced over the past several months (some publicly and many privately) is literally defined as illegal in several states within this country:  http://www.ncsl.org/research/telecommunications-and-information-technology/cyberstalking-and-cyberharassment-laws.aspx

And I want to nip this in the bud right now... I find it incredibly offensive that someone would equate my behavior (sending too many trade offers for Giannis Antetempoenko and writing admittedly annoying fake press releases) with the behavior of someone who made comments towards me that I can't repeat in this forum without getting a life-time ban.   

There's a certain obvious line that someone shouldn't cross.  It was crossed.   If you need to put it in writing in our constitution that one should not cross that line, so be it.     

Re: CBPL Offseason 2015 Rules Discussion
« Reply #20 on: July 26, 2015, 11:07:21 PM »

Offline Gainesville Celtic

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I think #1 is a tad vague at the moment.

I agree. We can try to sharpen it up a bit if people have suggestions.
Again, it should really go without saying, but a simple "Treat others with respect.   The commissioner reserves the right to remove anyone from the league at any time for inappropriate conduct" would be my suggestion.

I will sign off on this if pestering somebody after they ask not to be contacted is a bannable offense.

I'd vote against the rule right now for the same reasons others are mentioning.  It's too broad and open to interpretation.  I don't need someone to say, "LarBrd33 undervalued my player and sent me too many trade offers... that's disrespectful... he needs to be warned".   The game is literally built around the concept of making trades.

LB33 i think you're missing the key element of Rondo's statement "after they ask not to be contacted...".

If that GM has said to you (continuing your hypothetical example): "I think you're undervaluing my players, please stop sending me more trade offers asking about player X" and you (or anyone else) continues to keep sending that GM offers for player X, *that* is the very definition of disrespect and I think totally warrants a warning.

IMO, If you or any other GM gets to that point with another GM -- where they don't want to engage w/ you anymore -- then its on *you* for letting it get there.

(Full disclosure: I got there with someone in the H2H league a few years back... where I wouldn't even bother to send them trades b/c I knew we both were at odds with each other)



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Re: CBPL Offseason 2015 Rules Discussion
« Reply #21 on: July 26, 2015, 11:08:15 PM »

Online hpantazo

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I think #1 is a tad vague at the moment.

I agree. We can try to sharpen it up a bit if people have suggestions.
Again, it should really go without saying, but a simple "Treat others with respect.   The commissioner reserves the right to remove anyone from the league at any time for inappropriate conduct" would be my suggestion.

I will sign off on this if pestering somebody after they ask not to be contacted is a bannable offense.
I get what you're saying.  But to be clear, there's a difference between "Oh my god, he sent me one too many trade offers in a fantasy basketball league... oh my god, he thinks my player is worth a 2nd rounder... oh my god, he tried to tell me his fantasy basketball player is worth more than I think he is"  vs... sending vile, disgusting and hateful insults for months and repeatedly escalating the level of harassment after repeated requests to stop. 

To be clear, what the level of insults and harassment I faced over the past several months (some publicly and many privately) is literally defined as illegal in several states within this country:  http://www.ncsl.org/research/telecommunications-and-information-technology/cyberstalking-and-cyberharassment-laws.aspx

And I want to nip this in the bud right now... I find it mortally offensive that someone would equate my behavior (sending too many trade offers for Giannis Antetempoenko) with the behavior of someone who made comments towards me that I can't repeat in this forum without getting a life-time ban.

And yet there is no actual rule in our league against it. This is why we need some sort of a rule. It's not stupid or unnecessary to make such a rule when considering what has gone on in this league the past few seasons.

Re: CBPL Offseason 2015 Rules Discussion
« Reply #22 on: July 26, 2015, 11:08:43 PM »

Offline Rondo2287

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I think #1 is a tad vague at the moment.

I agree. We can try to sharpen it up a bit if people have suggestions.
Again, it should really go without saying, but a simple "Treat others with respect.   The commissioner reserves the right to remove anyone from the league at any time for inappropriate conduct" would be my suggestion.

I will sign off on this if pestering somebody after they ask not to be contacted is a bannable offense.
I get what you're saying.  But to be clear, there's a difference between "Oh my god, he sent me one too many trade offers in a fantasy basketball league... oh my god, he thinks my player is worth a 2nd rounder... oh my god, he tried to tell me his fantasy basketball player is worth more than I think he is"  vs... sending vile, disgusting and hateful insults for months and repeatedly escalating the level of harassment after repeated requests to stop. 

To be clear, what the level of insults and harassment I faced over the past several months (some publicly and many privately) is literally defined as illegal in several states within this country:  http://www.ncsl.org/research/telecommunications-and-information-technology/cyberstalking-and-cyberharassment-laws.aspx

And I want to nip this in the bud right now... I find it incredibly offensive that someone would equate my behavior (sending too many trade offers for Giannis Antetempoenko and writing admittedly annoying fake press releases) with the behavior of someone who made comments towards me that I can't repeat in this forum without getting a life-time ban.   

There's a certain obvious line that someone shouldn't cross.  It was crossed.   If you need to put it in writing in our constitution that one should not cross that line, so be it.   

I'm sorry if you found what I said offensive. But I do find respect to be something that is lacking in this league and in my opinion that does include not messaging or offering trades to somebody after they ask not to be contacted
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Re: CBPL Offseason 2015 Rules Discussion
« Reply #23 on: July 26, 2015, 11:08:54 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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I think #1 is a tad vague at the moment.

I agree. We can try to sharpen it up a bit if people have suggestions.
Again, it should really go without saying, but a simple "Treat others with respect.   The commissioner reserves the right to remove anyone from the league at any time for inappropriate conduct" would be my suggestion.

I will sign off on this if pestering somebody after they ask not to be contacted is a bannable offense.

I'd vote against the rule right now for the same reasons others are mentioning.  It's too broad and open to interpretation.  I don't need someone to say, "LarBrd33 undervalued my player and sent me too many trade offers... that's disrespectful... he needs to be warned".   The game is literally built around the concept of making trades.

LB33 i think you're missing the key element of Rondo's statement "after they ask not to be contacted...".

The only person who has asked me to never send them a trade offer again is ChampKind and I haven't discussed trades with him since.   We went over this before, though.  I admitted I was getting annoying with the frequency of my trade offers. 

But again, I'm getting the sense that some of you might have a misinterpretation of what lead to recent events.  I can't clarify it on this forum.  And I'd rather just move on from it as it wasn't very fun to deal with.     

Re: CBPL Offseason 2015 Rules Discussion
« Reply #24 on: July 26, 2015, 11:11:00 PM »

Offline Rondo2287

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I think #1 is a tad vague at the moment.

I agree. We can try to sharpen it up a bit if people have suggestions.
Again, it should really go without saying, but a simple "Treat others with respect.   The commissioner reserves the right to remove anyone from the league at any time for inappropriate conduct" would be my suggestion.

I will sign off on this if pestering somebody after they ask not to be contacted is a bannable offense.



I'd vote against the rule right now for the same reasons others are mentioning.  It's too broad and open to interpretation.  I don't need someone to say, "LarBrd33 undervalued my player and sent me too many trade offers... that's disrespectful... he needs to be warned".   The game is literally built around the concept of making trades.

LB33 i think you're missing the key element of Rondo's statement "after they ask not to be contacted...".

The only person who has asked me to never send them a trade offer again is ChampKind and I haven't discussed trades with him since.

That is 100% false
CB Draft LA Lakers: Lamarcus Aldridge, Carmelo Anthony,Jrue Holiday, Wes Matthews  6.11, 7.16, 8.14, 8.15, 9.16, 11.5, 11.16

Re: CBPL Offseason 2015 Rules Discussion
« Reply #25 on: July 26, 2015, 11:11:52 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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I think #1 is a tad vague at the moment.

I agree. We can try to sharpen it up a bit if people have suggestions.
Again, it should really go without saying, but a simple "Treat others with respect.   The commissioner reserves the right to remove anyone from the league at any time for inappropriate conduct" would be my suggestion.

I will sign off on this if pestering somebody after they ask not to be contacted is a bannable offense.



I'd vote against the rule right now for the same reasons others are mentioning.  It's too broad and open to interpretation.  I don't need someone to say, "LarBrd33 undervalued my player and sent me too many trade offers... that's disrespectful... he needs to be warned".   The game is literally built around the concept of making trades.

LB33 i think you're missing the key element of Rondo's statement "after they ask not to be contacted...".

The only person who has asked me to never send them a trade offer again is ChampKind and I haven't discussed trades with him since.

That is 100% false
Rondo2287, I discussed trades with you fairly recently.  If you've asked me to not send you trade offers, I might have missed it.   If you'd like me to stop, I will.   

Edit:  Just checked my messages to see if I literally missed something.  You last messaged me a couple weeks ago about one of my players. I rejected the offer and you told me to let you know if you changed your mind.  But seriously, if you want me to stop sending your trade offers, I will.    I seem to have that agreement with ChampKind.

Kind of getting off topic, though.  Overall point is that the more language we add to that rule, the more open to interpretation it could be.   If we need to simply remind people that the commish reserves the right to remove people, it might help.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2015, 11:18:47 PM by LarBrd33 »

Re: CBPL Offseason 2015 Rules Discussion
« Reply #26 on: July 26, 2015, 11:20:16 PM »

Offline Gainesville Celtic

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I think #1 is a tad vague at the moment.

I agree. We can try to sharpen it up a bit if people have suggestions.
Again, it should really go without saying, but a simple "Treat others with respect.   The commissioner reserves the right to remove anyone from the league at any time for inappropriate conduct" would be my suggestion.

I will sign off on this if pestering somebody after they ask not to be contacted is a bannable offense.
I get what you're saying.  But to be clear, there's a difference between "Oh my god, he sent me one too many trade offers in a fantasy basketball league... oh my god, he thinks my player is worth a 2nd rounder... oh my god, he tried to tell me his fantasy basketball player is worth more than I think he is"  vs... sending vile, disgusting and hateful insults for months and repeatedly escalating the level of harassment after repeated requests to stop. 

To be clear, the level of insults and harassment I faced over the past several months (some publicly and many privately) is literally defined as illegal in several states within this country:  http://www.ncsl.org/research/telecommunications-and-information-technology/cyberstalking-and-cyberharassment-laws.aspx

And I want to nip this in the bud right now... I find it incredibly offensive that someone would equate my behavior (sending too many trade offers for Giannis Antetempoenko and writing admittedly annoying fake press releases) with the behavior of someone who made comments towards me that I can't repeat in this forum without getting a life-time ban.   

There's a certain obvious line that someone shouldn't cross.  It was crossed.   If you need to put it in writing in our constitution that one should not cross that line, so be it.   

You're right there is a difference between those two things LB33 -- making too many or low ball offers and outright harrrasment.

I don't think anyone has equated the two things. I think just about everyone in the league agrees that a line was crossed and that no member of the league should have to deal with harrassment. Case closed.


At the same time, I think that we all also agree that ignoring what people have said to you --- from "player x is not available" to "please stop sending me offers" to "please stop it with the fake twitter feed" --- is *also* a real problem. And that if any of us are doing that, yourself included, we need to stop ... out of respect for our leaguemates.

It's not illegal harrassment but it's at best really irritating and at worst really disrepectful (and possibly a violation of CBlog anti-trolling rules). I'll go so far as to say that even your "oh my god..." above shows a real lack of understanding/listening to what people have said in the past.

I'm not saying anything here I haven't also said to you via PM.

I'm not saying any of this to pile on or troll you.

I just don't want this discussion to be built on a mythological foundation either.
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Re: CBPL Offseason 2015 Rules Discussion
« Reply #27 on: July 26, 2015, 11:24:10 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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I think #1 is a tad vague at the moment.

I agree. We can try to sharpen it up a bit if people have suggestions.
Again, it should really go without saying, but a simple "Treat others with respect.   The commissioner reserves the right to remove anyone from the league at any time for inappropriate conduct" would be my suggestion.

I will sign off on this if pestering somebody after they ask not to be contacted is a bannable offense.
I get what you're saying.  But to be clear, there's a difference between "Oh my god, he sent me one too many trade offers in a fantasy basketball league... oh my god, he thinks my player is worth a 2nd rounder... oh my god, he tried to tell me his fantasy basketball player is worth more than I think he is"  vs... sending vile, disgusting and hateful insults for months and repeatedly escalating the level of harassment after repeated requests to stop. 

To be clear, the level of insults and harassment I faced over the past several months (some publicly and many privately) is literally defined as illegal in several states within this country:  http://www.ncsl.org/research/telecommunications-and-information-technology/cyberstalking-and-cyberharassment-laws.aspx

And I want to nip this in the bud right now... I find it incredibly offensive that someone would equate my behavior (sending too many trade offers for Giannis Antetempoenko and writing admittedly annoying fake press releases) with the behavior of someone who made comments towards me that I can't repeat in this forum without getting a life-time ban.   

There's a certain obvious line that someone shouldn't cross.  It was crossed.   If you need to put it in writing in our constitution that one should not cross that line, so be it.   

You're right there is a difference between those two things LB33 -- making too many or low ball offers and outright harrrasment.

I don't think anyone has equated the two things. I think just about everyone in the league agrees that a line was crossed and that no member of the league should have to deal with harrassment. Case closed.


At the same time, I think that we all also agree that ignoring what people have said to you --- from "player x is not available" to "please stop sending me offers" to "please stop it with the fake twitter feed" --- is *also* a real problem. And that if any of us are doing that, yourself included, we need to stop ... out of respect for our leaguemates.

It's not illegal harrassment but it's at best really irritating and at worst really disrepectful (and possibly a violation of CBlog anti-trolling rules). I'll go so far as to say that even your "oh my god..." above shows a real lack of understanding/listening to what people have said.

I'm not saying anything here I haven't also said to you via PM.

I'm not saying any of this to pile on or troll you.

I just don't want this discussion to be built on a mythological foundation either.
I agree with you Gainesville. 

I think perhaps the difference is that I'm absolutely willing to make a concerted effort to improve that behavior after the discussion about it a month ago... and I think I've done a far better job about not sending redundant trade offers.  When I've received a response, I've tried to make an actual note of it so I don't accidentally send the exact same offer again.  And in specific instances (such as ChampKind and eja), I've tried to follow their guidelines for communication and I think it's made a difference.

Whereas... the other person wasn't at all willing to improve conduct... and in-fact gloated about it and threatened to escalate it further.   
« Last Edit: July 26, 2015, 11:30:46 PM by LarBrd33 »

Re: CBPL Offseason 2015 Rules Discussion
« Reply #28 on: July 26, 2015, 11:28:13 PM »

Online hpantazo

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I think #1 is a tad vague at the moment.

I agree. We can try to sharpen it up a bit if people have suggestions.
Again, it should really go without saying, but a simple "Treat others with respect.   The commissioner reserves the right to remove anyone from the league at any time for inappropriate conduct" would be my suggestion.

I will sign off on this if pestering somebody after they ask not to be contacted is a bannable offense.
I get what you're saying.  But to be clear, there's a difference between "Oh my god, he sent me one too many trade offers in a fantasy basketball league... oh my god, he thinks my player is worth a 2nd rounder... oh my god, he tried to tell me his fantasy basketball player is worth more than I think he is"  vs... sending vile, disgusting and hateful insults for months and repeatedly escalating the level of harassment after repeated requests to stop. 

To be clear, the level of insults and harassment I faced over the past several months (some publicly and many privately) is literally defined as illegal in several states within this country:  http://www.ncsl.org/research/telecommunications-and-information-technology/cyberstalking-and-cyberharassment-laws.aspx

And I want to nip this in the bud right now... I find it incredibly offensive that someone would equate my behavior (sending too many trade offers for Giannis Antetempoenko and writing admittedly annoying fake press releases) with the behavior of someone who made comments towards me that I can't repeat in this forum without getting a life-time ban.   

There's a certain obvious line that someone shouldn't cross.  It was crossed.   If you need to put it in writing in our constitution that one should not cross that line, so be it.   

You're right there is a difference between those two things LB33 -- making too many or low ball offers and outright harrrasment.

I don't think anyone has equated the two things. I think just about everyone in the league agrees that a line was crossed and that no member of the league should have to deal with harrassment. Case closed.


At the same time, I think that we all also agree that ignoring what people have said to you --- from "player x is not available" to "please stop sending me offers" to "please stop it with the fake twitter feed" --- is *also* a real problem. And that if any of us are doing that, yourself included, we need to stop ... out of respect for our leaguemates.

It's not illegal harrassment but it's at best really irritating and at worst really disrepectful (and possibly a violation of CBlog anti-trolling rules). I'll go so far as to say that even your "oh my god..." above shows a real lack of understanding/listening to what people have said in the past.

I'm not saying anything here I haven't also said to you via PM.

I'm not saying any of this to pile on or troll you.

I just don't want this discussion to be built on a mythological foundation either.

This is a great point. Glad it was made now before things piled up.

From this thread already, it is even more obvious that we need a league rule about GM behavior and what constitutes harassment.

Re: CBPL Offseason 2015 Rules Discussion
« Reply #29 on: July 26, 2015, 11:38:30 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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I think #1 is a tad vague at the moment.

I agree. We can try to sharpen it up a bit if people have suggestions.
Again, it should really go without saying, but a simple "Treat others with respect.   The commissioner reserves the right to remove anyone from the league at any time for inappropriate conduct" would be my suggestion.

I will sign off on this if pestering somebody after they ask not to be contacted is a bannable offense.
I get what you're saying.  But to be clear, there's a difference between "Oh my god, he sent me one too many trade offers in a fantasy basketball league... oh my god, he thinks my player is worth a 2nd rounder... oh my god, he tried to tell me his fantasy basketball player is worth more than I think he is"  vs... sending vile, disgusting and hateful insults for months and repeatedly escalating the level of harassment after repeated requests to stop. 

To be clear, the level of insults and harassment I faced over the past several months (some publicly and many privately) is literally defined as illegal in several states within this country:  http://www.ncsl.org/research/telecommunications-and-information-technology/cyberstalking-and-cyberharassment-laws.aspx

And I want to nip this in the bud right now... I find it incredibly offensive that someone would equate my behavior (sending too many trade offers for Giannis Antetempoenko and writing admittedly annoying fake press releases) with the behavior of someone who made comments towards me that I can't repeat in this forum without getting a life-time ban.   

There's a certain obvious line that someone shouldn't cross.  It was crossed.   If you need to put it in writing in our constitution that one should not cross that line, so be it.   

You're right there is a difference between those two things LB33 -- making too many or low ball offers and outright harrrasment.

I don't think anyone has equated the two things. I think just about everyone in the league agrees that a line was crossed and that no member of the league should have to deal with harrassment. Case closed.


At the same time, I think that we all also agree that ignoring what people have said to you --- from "player x is not available" to "please stop sending me offers" to "please stop it with the fake twitter feed" --- is *also* a real problem. And that if any of us are doing that, yourself included, we need to stop ... out of respect for our leaguemates.

It's not illegal harrassment but it's at best really irritating and at worst really disrepectful (and possibly a violation of CBlog anti-trolling rules). I'll go so far as to say that even your "oh my god..." above shows a real lack of understanding/listening to what people have said in the past.

I'm not saying anything here I haven't also said to you via PM.

I'm not saying any of this to pile on or troll you.

I just don't want this discussion to be built on a mythological foundation either.

This is a great point. Glad it was made now before things piled up.

From this thread already, it is even more obvious that we need a league rule about GM behavior and what constitutes harassment.
Just a thought...

Part of my problem is that I send offers without really thinking about them.  Like... "oh hey, I wonder if so-and-so would be interested in trading a 2016 2nd for a 2015 2nd... " and then just fire off a quick message about it.   I'm trying hard not to accidentally send the same offer twice.  I definitely do not mean to harass anyone by it. 

During the regular season it's even easier to send off trades without thinking about it.  In-fact, I usually feel like I'm wasting opportunities if I don't have at least 5 pending trade offers at all times.   

Others do this as well... but I know that I happen to be the most public of all of them.

One solution a lot of people take:  Just ignore the offers.  It happens.  I've sent byennie probably 15 different trade offers over the past month and haven't received a response on any.  I just assume he's not interested.   

So consider how that might impact your rule suggestion requiring all trade offers to be responded to.  Those two contradict each other a bit.