Cavaliers (13-11) at Celtics (17-5) Game #23 12/13/23

[SHAQATTACK]

Joe done good 

[Boston Garden Leprechaun]

CELTICS WIN AGAIN

[Boston Garden Leprechaun]

Joe done good 

[tenn_smoothie]

Really liked what Jayson Tatum said in his post-game interview just now. Abby laid all this praise on him for the 4th quarter, but he immediately brought up his missed threes throughout the night. He also said something very interesting that I loved hearing, stressing the team's need "for everyone to do a little less" individually and in turn focus on the little things that help the team win.

As for his missed threes, they were not a result of poor shooting by Tatum, but of the over-dribbling and then forced horrible shot selection because the shot-clock is running out. Tatum and Brown, while putting up individual stats, continue to prevent the team from hitting their full potential on offense by holding the ball and over-dribbling. So many times, the ball gets to one of them and all movement stops while they go into their iso-dribble which too often results in long step-back 3's. Such a contrast compared to the way White, Horford, Porzingis, Pritchard and even Hauser play. Holiday has been a mixed bag in this regard so far.

[yelkao]

Really liked what Jayson Tatum said in his post-game interview just now. Abby laid all this praise on him for the 4th quarter, but he immediately brought up his missed threes throughout the night. He also said something very interesting that I loved hearing, stressing the team's need "for everyone to do a little less" individually and in turn focus on the little things that help the team win.

As for his missed threes, they were not a result of poor shooting by Tatum, but of the over-dribbling and then forced horrible shot selection because the shot-clock is running out. Tatum and Brown, while putting up individual stats, continue to prevent the team from hitting their full potential on offense by holding the ball and over-dribbling. So many times, the ball gets to one of them and all movement stops while they go into their iso-dribble which too often results in long step-back 3's. Such a contrast compared to the way White, Horford, Porzingis, Pritchard and even Hauser play. Holiday has been a mixed bag in this regard so far.

Glad he said something along those lines because I just finished watching and thought (besides the last few possessions where he got two dunks and a KP open 3) Tatum was absolutely horrible to watch. 4 other guys standing while the whole building knew he was gonna shoot some junk.

[yelkao]

Glad they pulled out a good win! Curious what people think - I know Holiday and White are great but I’m surprised they are playing 37 and 35 minutes and Pritchard, who I thought was good even though he didn’t score, only played 14 minutes. Seems like he could and should be closer to 20 so those other two don’t need to play so much.

[Birdman]

Lamar Stevens sighting !!

[Who]

Horford had a strong game. 7pts/10rebs/3ast off the bench. 

Dude has been killing it this season.

7pts 7reb a game in 26min with 2.7 ast to only 1.0 TO. 50% FG% 36% 3PT%. And with his usual very good defense.

[celticinorlando]

Nice set of wins vs a team the Cs struggled with last year. Now time to kick Orlando's butt.

[Phantom255x]

Jaylen probably is still our 2nd best player but am I crazy to think he's our "4th most important piece" when it comes to Banner 18. Personally I think White and Porzingis are more vital than Jaylen in that regard. White's a silent assassin, does it all on both ends. Usually consistent as well and not making horrible decisions often. Porzingis when healthy of course is a unicorn for a reason and he makes a major impact on the floor. Kind of think White and Porzingis are our wild cards for this upcoming postseason. The Jays will need to perform and step up too, but the other two seem vital. Having a big man that can score at ease and shoot the 3 will also be another element we haven't really had in recent years since Timelord was limited on that end.

[Vermont Green]

Glad they pulled out a good win! Curious what people think - I know Holiday and White are great but I’m surprised they are playing 37 and 35 minutes and Pritchard, who I thought was good even though he didn’t score, only played 14 minutes. Seems like he could and should be closer to 20 so those other two don’t need to play so much.

White and Holiday had the best +/- (+11, 24 min) of any 2-man Celtics combo on the night.  That means the team was -2 when they weren't both on the court  I think the choice to play them more and more together vs. CLE was because Garland and Mitchell are their best players by far so you want White's and Holiday's defense on the floor to match up.  Against many teams, Brown can match up against one of the guards but these are both small, quick guards.

CLE didn't have Mobley so that makes them a small team.  I guess that is why we saw some of Stevens over Kornet (just realized that Kornet was injured).  Both Hauser and Pritchard played below their season average minutes though.  I would expect this all to mean that White and Holiday play less in the second of these back-to-backs, but we'll see.  ORL has not played since Monday.  They have a lot more size and depth than CLE.

Let's see what Joe comes up with.  You want to see good minutes management for all the top players but I am not that concerned about minutes with White and Holiday, the least of the top 6 anyway, due to their style of play and durability history.  Maybe Kornet will be back.

[Who]

Jaylen probably is still our 2nd best player but am I crazy to think he's our "4th most important piece" when it comes to Banner 18. Personally I think White and Porzingis are more vital than Jaylen in that regard. White's a silent assassin, does it all on both ends. Usually consistent as well and not making horrible decisions often. Porzingis when healthy of course is a unicorn for a reason and he makes a major impact on the floor. Kind of think White and Porzingis are our wild cards for this upcoming postseason. The Jays will need to perform and step up too, but the other two seem vital. Having a big man that can score at ease and shoot the 3 will also be another element we haven't really had in recent years since Timelord was limited on that end.

Agreed. I worry more when D White is missing than Jaylen. Ditto for Porzingis.

Probably Jrue as well. But D White in particular. I get nervous when he isn't around. He has a huge effect on settling the team down and making them play team ball. Jrue too to a lesser degree.

Porzinigis is more about individual talent than leadership. Better contrast / team balance with Porzingis' skill-set next to Tatum than Jaylen offers.

[A Future of Stevens]

The "elite team" aspect of our starting five is the Tatum/White/Holiday/Porzingis tandem. Brown participates, but is the finisher in that set. He just also happens to be a legit 1b or 2nd scoring option when the offense bogs down.

I will say, my favorite actions this season involve the Brown and Porzingis 2 man game. I just don't know how people guard that.

[cman88]

I really like Jaylens back down and step back in the post. looked unstoppable last night.

wonder if cassell has been working with him as well on it.

[Vermont Green]

Jaylen probably is still our 2nd best player but am I crazy to think he's our "4th most important piece" when it comes to Banner 18. Personally I think White and Porzingis are more vital than Jaylen in that regard. White's a silent assassin, does it all on both ends. Usually consistent as well and not making horrible decisions often. Porzingis when healthy of course is a unicorn for a reason and he makes a major impact on the floor. Kind of think White and Porzingis are our wild cards for this upcoming postseason. The Jays will need to perform and step up too, but the other two seem vital. Having a big man that can score at ease and shoot the 3 will also be another element we haven't really had in recent years since Timelord was limited on that end.

Agreed. I worry more when D White is missing than Jaylen. Ditto for Porzingis.

Probably Jrue as well. But D White in particular. I get nervous when he isn't around. He has a huge effect on settling the team down and making them play team ball. Jrue too to a lesser degree.

Porzinigis is more about individual talent than leadership. Better contrast / team balance with Porzingis' skill-set next to Tatum than Jaylen offers.

I agree with this but would look at it a little differently.  Yes, Porzinigis' value is amplified because the role of the skilled big is so difficult to fill.  Having a big with that kind of skill on the floor changes everything.  His value or importance is also amplified due to the lack of big depth.  When Porzingis is out, we play Kornet more.  If Brown is out, we play Hauser more.

As to White and Holiday, I agree that they are both right there with Brown and Porzingis, which is amazing.  Losing any one of these 2-5 players would hurt the team (Horford is important too), of course, but I would rank them this way:

Porzingis
Brown
White
Holiday

I feel that we would miss Brown a little more than either White or Holiday.  Brown is a guy that can put up 30 for you, can be your #1 guy when Tatum is out.  He can do that while also providing all the intangibles (defense, rebounding, toughness, etc.).  Holiday and White provide more ballhandling than Brown, which is important, but not as important as the ability to be an alternate primary scorer.  White and Holiday can get their +/- 15 pts/gm, do it efficiently, provide all the other things, but they do it as secondary scorers, which is very different than being a primary scorer.