Author Topic: So it begins... Who wants Jaylen?  (Read 13243 times)

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Re: So it begins... Who wants Jaylen?
« Reply #15 on: March 23, 2023, 04:24:11 PM »

Offline Phantom255x

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I don't deny these guys are all very solid players, at times great, but if Murray, Collins, etc. were all like people are talking about here, then this Hawks team wouldn't just be some 8 seed, play-in tourney fodder with Trae Young. Why aren't the Hawks that much better than that?
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Re: So it begins... Who wants Jaylen?
« Reply #16 on: March 23, 2023, 04:25:48 PM »

Offline Who

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I rate Jaylen as a top 20 player.

I have Dejounte Murray as a top 75 player. Not a top 20 or top 30 player. Not even a top 50 player. Somewhere shortly after the top 50 guys. Say 50-60 rank.

Re: So it begins... Who wants Jaylen?
« Reply #17 on: March 23, 2023, 04:40:25 PM »

Offline slamtheking

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Collins and Murray for Brown and Smart
nowhere near enough for Boston.  Collins and Murray just for JB isn't enough and any draft picks they threw in would be in the 20's and of low value. 

no thanks

Re: So it begins... Who wants Jaylen?
« Reply #18 on: March 23, 2023, 04:54:26 PM »

Online Celtics2021

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Notably Murray is also a free agent in the summer of 2024, and as a Klutch client he would seem even less likely to resign in Boston than would Jaylen.

This talk is all excessively speculative.  Most obviously because Jaylen has a real chance at being eligible for a supermax, which it would be shocking if he turned down (it would literally be the richest contract in NBA history when he signs it), but also because there is a new CBA that will be finished perhaps as soon as the start of the playoffs, and this new CBA will impact players' and teams future decisions.

Re: So it begins... Who wants Jaylen?
« Reply #19 on: March 23, 2023, 05:51:37 PM »

Offline perks-a-beast

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so I went through all the trade partners for Jaylen who seemed even semi realistic...

ATL: Dejounte Murray, Onyeka Okongwu, & AJ Griffin. That's the package I'd want. I don't want Trae Young for chemistry issues. And I don't want John Collins...seriously, the guy has been on the trade block for like 3 years and the hawks can't get rid of him. Red Flag.

BKN: Mikal Bridges + Royce O'Neale + picks...I don't hate this one as Bridges is on a sweetheart of a contract through 2026. Does it make us better in the short term? Probably not.

NYK: RJ Barrett + Immanuel Quickley + picks...Eh, not really a Barrett fan, and I don't like the idea of JB on the Knicks.

WAS: Brad Beal + maybe some other stuff. I know Tatum is close with the guy, but paying 33 year old Bradley Beal $57 mill in 2026/27? Yikes!

GSW: Andrew Wiggins + Jonathan Kuminga + picks...I hate to say it but...I actually don't hate this one.

SAC: Keegan Murray + Kevin Huerter + picks. Would be great if we were rebuilding, but I think that trade makes us much worse right now.

HOU: Kevin Porter + Jabari Smith. Same as above.

MIN: KAT...no...I just think Towns is a losing player, and now he has injury concerns as well. No.

NOP: McCollum + Murphy + picks. Not horrible, actually.

POR: Anfernee Simons + Shaedon Sharpe. I probably do this, but highly unlikely.


Honestly...just pay Jaylen unless it becomes clear he doesn't wanna be here.

Re: So it begins... Who wants Jaylen?
« Reply #20 on: March 23, 2023, 06:27:46 PM »

Offline Silas

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so I went through all the trade partners for Jaylen who seemed even semi realistic...

ATL: Dejounte Murray, Onyeka Okongwu, & AJ Griffin. That's the package I'd want. I don't want Trae Young for chemistry issues. And I don't want John Collins...seriously, the guy has been on the trade block for like 3 years and the hawks can't get rid of him. Red Flag.

BKN: Mikal Bridges + Royce O'Neale + picks...I don't hate this one as Bridges is on a sweetheart of a contract through 2026. Does it make us better in the short term? Probably not.

NYK: RJ Barrett + Immanuel Quickley + picks...Eh, not really a Barrett fan, and I don't like the idea of JB on the Knicks.

WAS: Brad Beal + maybe some other stuff. I know Tatum is close with the guy, but paying 33 year old Bradley Beal $57 mill in 2026/27? Yikes!

GSW: Andrew Wiggins + Jonathan Kuminga + picks...I hate to say it but...I actually don't hate this one.

SAC: Keegan Murray + Kevin Huerter + picks. Would be great if we were rebuilding, but I think that trade makes us much worse right now.

HOU: Kevin Porter + Jabari Smith. Same as above.

MIN: KAT...no...I just think Towns is a losing player, and now he has injury concerns as well. No.

NOP: McCollum + Murphy + picks. Not horrible, actually.

POR: Anfernee Simons + Shaedon Sharpe. I probably do this, but highly unlikely.


Honestly...just pay Jaylen unless it becomes clear he doesn't wanna be here.

So true.  Pay him the max that he can receive unless he wants to leave.  Would he tell Brad early enough so that he could be traded?  Remains to be seen.
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Re: So it begins... Who wants Jaylen?
« Reply #21 on: March 23, 2023, 08:15:58 PM »

Offline Who

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Notably Murray is also a free agent in the summer of 2024, and as a Klutch client he would seem even less likely to resign in Boston than would Jaylen.


I do not understand. Why would D Murray be even less likely to resign in Boston? Is it because of Klutch?

Re: So it begins... Who wants Jaylen?
« Reply #22 on: March 23, 2023, 09:41:47 PM »

Offline Moranis

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I rate Jaylen as a top 20 player.

I have Dejounte Murray as a top 75 player. Not a top 20 or top 30 player. Not even a top 50 player. Somewhere shortly after the top 50 guys. Say 50-60 rank.
That is very low.  ESPN at the start of the year had him at 42 and I think he has probably moved up a fair amount from that point.  Probably in the 30-35 range. 

Basically scoring 20 ppg with 6 apg and 5.5 rpg.  Though not a good shooting efficiency at just 53.7 TS% (in part because he doesn't get to the line all that well).  Young is so ball dominant I do think it hurts Murray's numbers, especially passing.  I think he'd bump way up here. 
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Re: So it begins... Who wants Jaylen?
« Reply #23 on: March 23, 2023, 10:13:32 PM »

Offline Phantom255x

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I rate Jaylen as a top 20 player.

I have Dejounte Murray as a top 75 player. Not a top 20 or top 30 player. Not even a top 50 player. Somewhere shortly after the top 50 guys. Say 50-60 rank.
That is very low.  ESPN at the start of the year had him at 42 and I think he has probably moved up a fair amount from that point.  Probably in the 30-35 range. 

Basically scoring 20 ppg with 6 apg and 5.5 rpg.  Though not a good shooting efficiency at just 53.7 TS% (in part because he doesn't get to the line all that well).  Young is so ball dominant I do think it hurts Murray's numbers, especially passing.  I think he'd bump way up here.

I’m sorry but if we’re trading Brown for Murray as the centerpiece (Murray + Collins) then that’d be depressing. Really depressing

I used to love Collins but he’s basically regressed every season over the last 3-4. ATL’s been trying to trade him for a while too
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Re: So it begins... Who wants Jaylen?
« Reply #24 on: March 23, 2023, 10:22:32 PM »

Online celticsclay

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I rate Jaylen as a top 20 player.

I have Dejounte Murray as a top 75 player. Not a top 20 or top 30 player. Not even a top 50 player. Somewhere shortly after the top 50 guys. Say 50-60 rank.
That is very low.  ESPN at the start of the year had him at 42 and I think he has probably moved up a fair amount from that point.  Probably in the 30-35 range. 

Basically scoring 20 ppg with 6 apg and 5.5 rpg.  Though not a good shooting efficiency at just 53.7 TS% (in part because he doesn't get to the line all that well).  Young is so ball dominant I do think it hurts Murray's numbers, especially passing.  I think he'd bump way up here.

I’m sorry but if we’re trading Brown for Murray as the centerpiece (Murray + Collins) then that’d be depressing. Really depressing

I used to love Collins but he’s basically regressed every season over the last 3-4. ATL’s been trying to trade him for a while too

Did anyone look at the tweet with the picture I shared of his hand? It is completely mangled and why he can’t shoot at all anymore. And him without shooting is a bad player.

Re: So it begins... Who wants Jaylen?
« Reply #25 on: March 23, 2023, 10:24:59 PM »

Offline Phantom255x

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I rate Jaylen as a top 20 player.

I have Dejounte Murray as a top 75 player. Not a top 20 or top 30 player. Not even a top 50 player. Somewhere shortly after the top 50 guys. Say 50-60 rank.
That is very low.  ESPN at the start of the year had him at 42 and I think he has probably moved up a fair amount from that point.  Probably in the 30-35 range. 

Basically scoring 20 ppg with 6 apg and 5.5 rpg.  Though not a good shooting efficiency at just 53.7 TS% (in part because he doesn't get to the line all that well).  Young is so ball dominant I do think it hurts Murray's numbers, especially passing.  I think he'd bump way up here.

I’m sorry but if we’re trading Brown for Murray as the centerpiece (Murray + Collins) then that’d be depressing. Really depressing

I used to love Collins but he’s basically regressed every season over the last 3-4. ATL’s been trying to trade him for a while too

Did anyone look at the tweet with the picture I shared of his hand? It is completely mangled and why he can’t shoot at all anymore. And him without shooting is a bad player.

I just clicked it.

Oh god…  :o
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Re: So it begins... Who wants Jaylen?
« Reply #26 on: March 24, 2023, 03:41:54 AM »

Offline tenn_smoothie

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Collins and Murray for Brown and Smart

That is a steal for ATL.  Smart is more valuable right now than Collins and Brown is significantly better than Murray, in my opinion.

But to the original topic, of course there are teams plotting to see if they might be in position to sign Brown if he becomes a UFA in 2024.  That is not surprising in the least.  Brown is saying and not saying just enough to allow teams to believe there is a chance.

Nothing of course is going to happen with Brown until we see if he qualifies for a super max extension or whatever it is called.  If he does, I predict he takes an extension.  If he doesn't, he will wait until he is a UFA.  If he does not accept an extension, there is some chance that the Celtics could trade him in the off season but I think the chances are slim.
I don't actually think Smart is more valuable than Collins right now.  Smart has been awful this year and I don't think he is going to get better.  I think he is one of those guys that is going to "age" at a young age and not last that long.  And Brown is "better" than Murray, I think Murray's passing and better team oriented style of play would fit better with Tatum.  I'd ask for another asset, perhaps Bey, but probably would end up doing that trade this summer (assuming Boston does not win the title this year).

White, Murray, Tatum, Collins, Rob with Brogdon, PP, Al, Grant, Moose, Gallo, Hauser

That is a better more cohesive within a team offense.

Agreed, Brown and Tatum still sometimes take turns on offense and the flow of the other players is sacrificed ............. especially late in tight games. More team offense emphasis, along with adding a knock-down shooter and a strong rebounder would do wonders for this team's consistency and ability to close out tight games.

Then, of course, is the issue of our current head coach.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               

« Last Edit: March 24, 2023, 06:07:24 PM by tenn_smoothie »
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Re: So it begins... Who wants Jaylen?
« Reply #27 on: March 24, 2023, 08:27:47 AM »

Offline td450

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To me, Jaylen looks like a player taking another leap. He was having a good season before the all-star game, but his 3 point shooting and turnovers were still disappointing.

Since the break, his scoring has held up and his 3 point shooting has been at 40% over 13 games, while his assists are up and his turnovers are down. He's shown he can fall back when Tatum and the offense are humming, or step forward and carry the team when things have bogged down. His playmaking is clearly improving, and he's been less sloppy with the ball. His game has tightened up.

We don't know what will happen next, but I expect he will be more widely viewed as a top 10-15 guy after the playoffs this year.

I don't see Tatum as a top 3 type of player. It's the two of them as a tandem that gives us a chance at competing in a league where MVP candidates almost always win the title. We need him to stay.

Re: So it begins... Who wants Jaylen?
« Reply #28 on: March 24, 2023, 08:32:16 AM »

Offline boscel33

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Re: So it begins... Who wants Jaylen?
« Reply #29 on: March 24, 2023, 08:48:15 AM »

Offline Who

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Basically scoring 20 ppg with 6 apg and 5.5 rpg.  Though not a good shooting efficiency at just 53.7 TS% (in part because he doesn't get to the line all that well).
Smart is at 53.5% TS%. Think about the amount of frustration and anger Smart gets for shooting too much. He only takes 10 shots per game. D Murray takes 18 shots per game!

It is not only how inefficient a scorer D Murray is but also how shot happy he is.

He wrecks his own value by how much he hurts his own team with his bad shooting & inefficient scoring.

What I mean is, he makes a lot of positive things happen for his team but he also makes a huge number of bad plays ... the net of positive minus the negatives just isn't that great.