Jaylen Brown interview in NY Times

[Muzzy66]

I have, but I pretty much block it all out. It’s not the whole Celtic fan base, but it is a part of the fan base that exists within the Celtic nation that is problematic. If you have a bad game, they tie it to your personal character.

Tying a bad game to your personal character has nothing to do with racism. 

This is one of the things that frustrates me about JB.  He constantly tries to turn everything into a discussion about politics / racism and it's irritating as hell. And then to add to it he complains about people who criticise him for "trying to use his platform". 

Nobody has an issue with him trying to use his platform - on his own Facebook, twitter, etc he can go and talk about whatever he wants and that's totally fine.  People have an issue with him weaponising basketball as a means for him to force his political views and ideologies down people's throats.  If I want to know what his personal views are on politics and other non-basketball subjects then I'll g follow him on social media.  I don't need to listen to him pushing it every second time he gets an interview.

What I love (comparatively) about Tatum is that while I'm sure he has his personal views and beliefs, he's wise enough to understand when it's appropriate to discuss these things and when it isn't.  When he's in a situation where he's directly representing the Celtics (on the court, in a press conference, in a Celtics jersey) he makes a very clear effort to avoid being dragged into external subjects and keeps his focus on basketball - which is (IMHO) exactly how it should be.  That's what we call being a professional. 

I don't go walking around my office at work trying to push my political views onto my coworkers / customers, and I can't imagine that people would appreciate it if I did.  There's a time and place.

[Muzzy66]

I'm burnt out with celebrity activists. Count me in on the small part of Celtics nation who doesnt care what you do outside of basketball, as long as it doesnt hurt the basketball product. Just like I dont care what my dentist does outside of cleaning my teeth or the person bagging my groceries at Stop and Shop.

Use your platform for whatever you want but stop acting like I'm suppose to care outside of dribble, drive and shoot.

Me too.

Me three.

[Muzzy66]

I think he was pretty fair about the racism in Boston stuff. The city has a history and still continues with the issue (like many other cities in the country).

The part of this interview that really bothered me was his freaking hypocrisy about his support for Kanye and Kyrie and the Black Islaelites. He claims racism against Blacks/African Americans but literally continues support for antisemites in the same article. He was asked about his support for Kanye and he just responded “Next question.” Just a super lame reply and just so hypocritical. It is so hard to take him seriously. You can’t claim to be an activist for civil rights/racism and in the same breath support the likes of Kanye and Kyrie. It was disappointing to read that.

Yeah, this isn't receiving enough attention. I obviously like Jaylen as a basketball player, but his views leave a lot to be desired. People should just stop giving him attention as if he is one of the league's great minds.

The fact that he won't just come out and denounce the words of Kanye and Kyrie speaks volumes and makes his platform about social equality a pretty empty one imo.

Yeah even on NBA reddit everyone is calling him out for it. Hard to really take Jaylen seriously on the off-the-court stuff when he can't even denounce Kayne and Kyrie.

And also, what Jaylen said about the fanbase, isn't that literally true of every fanbase? I mean maybe not the smaller ones like Charlotte, but almost all of them are like that with some "bad apples". It just is what it is.

I got tired of his nonsense when he started asking calling for games to be cancelled in protest of a black violent criminal who was shot by a police officer after he:

a) Forcefully entered the home of an ex-partner who had an AVO out against him
b) Tried to steal said ex-partners car and kidnap her child (who was in the car)
c) Resisted arrest even after being tazed
d) Went for a knife that he had under the carpet of his car in an attempt to stab the police officer

If you're the type of person who thinks that that a criminal's desire to avoid being arrested takes precedence over a Police Officer's right to defend his own life (but only if/when the criminal in question is black) then as far as I'm concerned, you aren't much better than the person you're defending.

Then the final straw for me was though was when JB was seen heading to a game wearing a "black power" jacket.  Initially I kinda forgave him for his crap based on the hope that maybe he's just young, naive and easily influenced.  But wearing a "black power" jacket is next level.  Everybody knows that "White Power" is synonymous with white supremacist groups like Nazi's and the KKK, and wearing such a statement is effectively your way if saying you believe whites are superior and should rule the world.  So when I see Jaylen wearing a jacket that says "Black Power" it seems pretty clear to me where where his mind and heart is.   If I saw an NBA player wearing a white power jacket I would feel absoutely disgusted towards that player and would think they are complete garbage.  With all due respect to the Celtics organisation and community, why should I look at somebody who wears a Black Power jacket any differently?   

People talk about JB like he's a lovely passionate activist standing up against injustice - yet everything I've seen so far suggests to me that he's really just a racist who'll defend absolutely anybody (no matter how terrible a person they might be or what horrible act they have committed) so long as they are black.   

I for one couldn't care less about a person's skin colour.  I don't care about a person's race.  I don't care about a person's religion.  I don't care about a person's sexual orientation.  I care about a person's words and action.  If you're a good person then I'll root for you every step of the way.  If you're muderer, a drug dealer and a wife-beater then as far as I'm concerned, you're a piece of trash. 

And I'm sorry Jaylen, but I can't find it within my heart to show any sense of love, respect or appreciation for the type of person who defends murderers, drug deals and wife beaters just because they have the same coloured skin.  And yes, I understand the historical pretence...and no I don't believe think that makes it ok. 

[Muzzy66]

It's behind a pay wall, but below is the relevant part discussing Boston and the Celtics:

"Brown made his second All-Star team this season, and his career-best 26.8 points a game places him among the top guards in scoring. He could be a free agent after next season, but he said he isn’t thinking about that yet. “I’ve been able to make a lot of connections in the city, meet a lot of amazing families who have dedicated their lives to issues about change,” he said.

Brown, who is Black, has spoken publicly about racism in Boston, where about half the population is white and about a quarter is Black. In 2015, a jolting study from the Federal Reserve Bank of Boston estimated that the Black households in the Boston area had a median wealth of close to zero, while the figure for white households was $247,500. “The wealth disparity in Boston is ridiculous,” Brown said.

What has your experience been like as a Black professional athlete in Boston?

There’s multiple experiences: as an athlete, as a basketball player, as a regular civilian, as somebody who’s trying to start a business, as someone who’s trying to do things in the community.

There’s not a lot of room for people of color, Black entrepreneurs, to come in and start a business.

I think that my experience there has been not as fluid as I thought it would be.

What do you mean by that?

Even being an athlete, you would think that you’ve got a certain amount of influence to be able to have experiences, to be able to have some things that doors open a little bit easier. But even with me being who I am, trying to start a business, trying to buy a house, trying to do certain things, you run into some adversity.

Other athletes have spoken about the negative way that fans have treated Black athletes while playing in Boston. Have you experienced any of that?

I have, but I pretty much block it all out. It’s not the whole Celtic fan base, but it is a part of the fan base that exists within the Celtic nation that is problematic. If you have a bad game, they tie it to your personal character.

I definitely think there’s a group or an amount within the Celtic nation that is extremely toxic and does not want to see athletes use their platform, or they just want you to play basketball and entertain and go home. And that’s a problem to me."

Surprised to hear this and would like to know more details.

You don't really have to look too hard to see examples of what he's talking about. The shut up and dribble crowd is pretty vocal on social media. And there's more than a few posters on this forum that fall into that category too.

True.  But is that racism?  He’s part of an entertainment product (sports, NBA).  That doesnt dehumanize him.  Some people might just want to watch the product and have no interest in what else they’re doing.  Doesnt make it racist.  Same goes for other celebrities (actors, musicians, athletes, etc).  Do we have to care about what they do outside of what has given them fame?  And if we dont, does that make us bad?

Wanting to watch the product while ignoring the person is dehumanizing.

It doesn't make you bad if you don't care about what a celebrity does outside of their art/sport but if you're criticizing him for his views (or for just expressing them) then apparently you do care.

It's nothing to do with dehumanizing and everything to do with professionalism. 

With the very public nature of professional sports, some people seem to forget that it is a profession.  A job.  An occupation. 

If your occupation is in media or politics then fine - commenting on social issues is part of your occupation.  These players are being paid millions of dollars not because of what they think, but because of what they are physically capable of doing on a court.  They are being paid to entertain crowds and to compete athletically. 

For JB basketball is his profession, and anything he does while representing his team is effectively equivalent to him being in the workplace.  Most people - no matter how strong your political views might be - would not walk around your workplace making aggressive political statements.   Most of us wouldn't walk around the workplace calling for your colleagues to strike because of something that happened in your community.  Most of us wouldn't walk in to our workplace wearing clothes with very strong political statements on them.  If you did any of this you would probably get a meeting with HR sooner rather than later.  Why should somebody like JB be see any differently?

He's allowed to have his personal views just like anybody else.  He's allowed to express his views just like anybody else.  But if he's going to do so then he should keep it to his own social media pages and keep it away from anything that may be seen as representative of his team - that includes traveling to games, taking postgame interviews, waling around in his jersey, etc. 

Hell I've worked for many organisations where, as part of my induction, I've had to complete training modules that SPECIFICALLY deal with the risks of social media, and how you can be held liable by your employer if you say things on social media that in any way reflect on your employer.  This is commonplace in many organisations.   

And as much as he has a right to express his views, other people also have the right to disagree with them and criticise him for them.  That's how free speech works.  You can speak your mind openly, but if you're going to do so then you better be willing to accept disagreements and criticism from others.  You can't expect free speech to apply ONLY to you.   

[Kernewek]

Good thing you're Australian and none of his off-the-court behaviour or statements affect you in any meaningful way.

[gouki88]

I'm burnt out with celebrity activists. Count me in on the small part of Celtics nation who doesnt care what you do outside of basketball, as long as it doesnt hurt the basketball product. Just like I dont care what my dentist does outside of cleaning my teeth or the person bagging my groceries at Stop and Shop.

Use your platform for whatever you want but stop acting like I'm suppose to care outside of dribble, drive and shoot.

Me too.

Me three.

What a strange attitude. Why would you not want people with power to be good people?

[Sophomore]

It's behind a pay wall, but below is the relevant part discussing Boston and the Celtics:

"Brown made his second All-Star team this season, and his career-best 26.8 points a game places him among the top guards in scoring. He could be a free agent after next season, but he said he isn’t thinking about that yet. “I’ve been able to make a lot of connections in the city, meet a lot of amazing families who have dedicated their lives to issues about change,” he said.

Brown, who is Black, has spoken publicly about racism in Boston, where about half the population is white and about a quarter is Black. In 2015, a jolting study from the Federal Reserve Bank of Boston estimated that the Black households in the Boston area had a median wealth of close to zero, while the figure for white households was $247,500. “The wealth disparity in Boston is ridiculous,” Brown said.

What has your experience been like as a Black professional athlete in Boston?

There’s multiple experiences: as an athlete, as a basketball player, as a regular civilian, as somebody who’s trying to start a business, as someone who’s trying to do things in the community.

There’s not a lot of room for people of color, Black entrepreneurs, to come in and start a business.

I think that my experience there has been not as fluid as I thought it would be.

What do you mean by that?

Even being an athlete, you would think that you’ve got a certain amount of influence to be able to have experiences, to be able to have some things that doors open a little bit easier. But even with me being who I am, trying to start a business, trying to buy a house, trying to do certain things, you run into some adversity.

Other athletes have spoken about the negative way that fans have treated Black athletes while playing in Boston. Have you experienced any of that?

I have, but I pretty much block it all out. It’s not the whole Celtic fan base, but it is a part of the fan base that exists within the Celtic nation that is problematic. If you have a bad game, they tie it to your personal character.

I definitely think there’s a group or an amount within the Celtic nation that is extremely toxic and does not want to see athletes use their platform, or they just want you to play basketball and entertain and go home. And that’s a problem to me."

Surprised to hear this and would like to know more details.

You don't really have to look too hard to see examples of what he's talking about. The shut up and dribble crowd is pretty vocal on social media. And there's more than a few posters on this forum that fall into that category too.

True.  But is that racism?  He’s part of an entertainment product (sports, NBA).  That doesnt dehumanize him.  Some people might just want to watch the product and have no interest in what else they’re doing.  Doesnt make it racist.  Same goes for other celebrities (actors, musicians, athletes, etc).  Do we have to care about what they do outside of what has given them fame?  And if we dont, does that make us bad?

Wanting to watch the product while ignoring the person is dehumanizing.

It doesn't make you bad if you don't care about what a celebrity does outside of their art/sport but if you're criticizing him for his views (or for just expressing them) then apparently you do care.

It's nothing to do with dehumanizing and everything to do with professionalism. 

With the very public nature of professional sports, some people seem to forget that it is a profession.  A job.  An occupation. 

If your occupation is in media or politics then fine - commenting on social issues is part of your occupation.  These players are being paid millions of dollars not because of what they think, but because of what they are physically capable of doing on a court.  They are being paid to entertain crowds and to compete athletically. 

For JB basketball is his profession, and anything he does while representing his team is effectively equivalent to him being in the workplace.  Most people - no matter how strong your political views might be - would not walk around your workplace making aggressive political statements.   Most of us wouldn't walk around the workplace calling for your colleagues to strike because of something that happened in your community.  Most of us wouldn't walk in to our workplace wearing clothes with very strong political statements on them.  If you did any of this you would probably get a meeting with HR sooner rather than later.  Why should somebody like JB be see any differently?

He's allowed to have his personal views just like anybody else.  He's allowed to express his views just like anybody else.  But if he's going to do so then he should keep it to his own social media pages and keep it away from anything that may be seen as representative of his team - that includes traveling to games, taking postgame interviews, waling around in his jersey, etc. 

Hell I've worked for many organisations where, as part of my induction, I've had to complete training modules that SPECIFICALLY deal with the risks of social media, and how you can be held liable by your employer if you say things on social media that in any way reflect on your employer.  This is commonplace in many organisations.   

And as much as he has a right to express his views, other people also have the right to disagree with them and criticise him for them.  That's how free speech works.  You can speak your mind openly, but if you're going to do so then you better be willing to accept disagreements and criticism from others.  You can't expect free speech to apply ONLY to you.   

The analogy between Jaylen’s job and your job is faulty. Does the New York Times, or any other national publication, call you and ask for an interview about your personal life? They do not. They do for Jaylen, though, and that is where all of the current conversation started. Part of his job is that he’s a public figure. People are interested in his life and his thoughts.

It is completely off base to say that he is talking to his coworkers asking them to strike. Every indication is that he is among the most prepared of the players in the most dedicated to what his job is on the court. He isn’t distracting anybody on the team. Frankly, I wish Tatum played with Brown’s pace and intensity.

Of course, if you disagree with him, you disagree with him. I get that. I don’t agree with everything he says, but I do agree with most of it. And one thing I don’t appreciate are fans who don’t want him on the team because of his beliefs. They project onto him that he wants off the team when the reality is they don’t want him. Some are making basketball judgments because of a very slanted interpretation of his off court statements. And I think that’s wrong.

[Big333223]

Wanting to watch the product while ignoring the person is dehumanizing.

Is it?  Can you enjoy Eastwood while ignoring / disliking his right-wing politics, or DeNiro without appreciating his quite progressive views? What’s dehumanizing about ignoring somebody, or disagreeing with them, or even criticizing somebody?

I think it’s quite possible to appreciate and enjoy talent, without liking much more about the person.  That’s not dehumanizing, that’s appreciating that humans are multi-faceted.

Yes, definitely. Those are two good examples of the kind of every-day dehumanization we all engage in. We put people who have full, multifaceted lives into categories like "actor" or "athlete" or "grocery store clerk" and are often surprised when it turns out these people have full personalities and diverse interests when we engage with them in a different context.

Heck, many fans are often taken aback when "comedic actor" tries to be "dramatic actor" because they have trouble accepting that actor doing anything other than what they've become known for.

I'm not saying to watch an Eastwood or DeNiro performance demands that you know and empathize with their entire being, I'm just acknowledging the dehumanization that comes from the categorization that we do all the time.

Even boiling down those two's politics to "right-wing" and "progressive" is, to some degree, dehumanzing as those brushes are awfully broad.

For most of us, being part of a much bigger, wider society is central to us being human. The notion that the people who we interact should understand us fully as human beings is as anti-human as it can get.

A number commonly cited is the "Dunbar" number, around 150, after which, most of us just can't truly know the people we interact with.

If you can't handle venturing past this threshold, don't. But the world doesn't work unless almost all of us do.

This is exactly what I'm talking about. Past a pretty small population density, we start putting people into categories because we have to to function. This is inherently dehumanizing. That doesn't mean we're all bad people for doing it, it's a natural function of the world. I just think it's a good idea to acknowledge it's happening.

[Big333223]

If your occupation is in media or politics then fine - commenting on social issues is part of your occupation.  These players are being paid millions of dollars not because of what they think, but because of what they are physically capable of doing on a court.  They are being paid to entertain crowds and to compete athletically. 

I'm guessing you don't work in professional basketball and yet here you are expressing opinions on basketball. You probably have opinions on politics too, even if you don't work in politics.

As famous entertainers, NBA players are constantly asked not only about their professional lives but also of their personal lives. That's not Jaylen's fault. Nor is it his fault that he's been given a platform from which to speak. If he thinks it's important to use that platform to talk about things other than basketball, it certainly isn't the place of anyone on this board to tell him he shouldn't.

[Donoghus]

  If he thinks it's important to use that platform to talk about things other than basketball, it certainly isn't the place of anyone on this board to tell him he shouldn't.

Bingo

[Amonkey]

If your occupation is in media or politics then fine - commenting on social issues is part of your occupation.  These players are being paid millions of dollars not because of what they think, but because of what they are physically capable of doing on a court.  They are being paid to entertain crowds and to compete athletically. 

I'm guessing you don't work in professional basketball and yet here you are expressing opinions on basketball. You probably have opinions on politics too, even if you don't work in politics.

As famous entertainers, NBA players are constantly asked not only about their professional lives but also of their personal lives. That's not Jaylen's fault. Nor is it his fault that he's been given a platform from which to speak. If he thinks it's important to use that platform to talk about things other than basketball, it certainly isn't the place of anyone on this board to tell him he shouldn't.

I think it's weird that people seem to be so offended when somebody speaks out. It's one thing if you want to disagree with the substance of what he's saying, but to say shut up and dribble as if their opinion doesn't matter is a weird take. I am sure the same people that say that about Jaylen Brown don't have the same take as Aaron Rodgers or (I don't know why I can't think of his name but the Red Sox pitcher).

I can completely disagree with Aaron Rodgers about 'being innoculated' and how much of a jerk he is, but I don't have the take that he should just shut up. I also think it's odd that some people will be more offended by what somebody like Jaylen Brown says when sharing his own opinion than somebody like Bret Favre, who appears to steal money from the government and welfare recipients for his own good. If you are on that category, you should question yourself why that is.

[Moranis]

  If he thinks it's important to use that platform to talk about things other than basketball, it certainly isn't the place of anyone on this board to tell him he shouldn't.

Bingo

True, but it is also reasonable to call the players out for those things, especially when they are filled with hypocrisy. 

[Big333223]

  If he thinks it's important to use that platform to talk about things other than basketball, it certainly isn't the place of anyone on this board to tell him he shouldn't.

Bingo

True, but it is also reasonable to call the players out for those things, especially when they are filled with hypocrisy.

It's certainly reasonable to call them out for the things they say. It's not reasonable to criticize them for saying things.

[Kernewek]

  If he thinks it's important to use that platform to talk about things other than basketball, it certainly isn't the place of anyone on this board to tell him he shouldn't.

Bingo

True, but it is also reasonable to call the players out for those things, especially when they are filled with hypocrisy.

It's certainly reasonable to call them out for the things they say. It's not reasonable to criticize them for saying things.

An important distinction, for sure.

[Phantom255x]

This feels like encouraging news. Another follow-up interview from JB with Shams:

https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1643301166044831774?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

Celtics star Jaylen Brown sits down with @Stadium: “I get why people try to break up duos because so far, (Jayson and I) have been incredibly successful. At this point, we’re part of each other’s destiny.” On rookie year lessons, headlocks with Marcus Smart, sacrifice, much more.