Celtics out of gas but still no 15th man!

[wdleehi]

Would it matter when they don't use the guys they have?   

Pritchard is not a perfect player, but he is a guy that can help and maybe pump some energy into this group.   We have seen big games from Blake when used every few games.   


And it should not take someone fouling out to get White in there during the 4th quarter/overtime when it is clear guys are out of gas.   Rotate him in there to give guys a quick break. 

[Goldstar88]

It’s not like we’re playing Blake Griffin anyways, nor Kornet and Pritchard for more than a minute or two.  The 15th man wouldn’t play, which is why no one of any quality would have signed.

Boston could have signed Myers Leonard or Cody Zeller. Those guys would have been upgrades over Kornet/Griffin at the backup C position. Leonard is now on the Bucks and Zeller signed with the Heat. There was no reason not to have the extra depth considering Rob’s injury history.

[liam]

It’s not like we’re playing Blake Griffin anyways, nor Kornet and Pritchard for more than a minute or two.  The 15th man wouldn’t play, which is why no one of any quality would have signed.

I feel like that's really the reason. Can we find someone who is a) better than Blake, Luke or Payton; b) will fit in with the rest of the players better and not affect on court chemistry; c) be willing to sit the pine for long stretches only to come in during injury; and d) be willing to do all this on the cheap. Blake is willing to do it, as is Luke - we've already heard reports that Payton isn't happy and would rather find more time elsewhere. Not making excuses for Brad, but it's not easy to find these types of players.

Oh and e) can quickly gain the trust of the coach and players that he can be relied upon, so close to the end of the season. If you look at Ime last year, he had a small circle of trust in terms of the players he used, he played a playoff rotation all the way through the playoffs. Joe has been willing to play more guys overall but as the season comes to an end he's shrank his rotation down to the people that he thinks will be able to deliver for him in the playoffs, in an effort to improve the chemistry and combinations so that the guys who are there don't have to think about what their teammates are doing, they just know what they are going to do, where they will be, etc.

I do agree they could bring someone on on a 10 day if it got to the point where we really needed someone, but what happens if that guy plays and is a disaster like Vonleh or Justin Jackson? It's a double edged sword - another player would help us (and would be exciting to the fans) but how to find the right player when the ones we already have aren't being used as much as they could be?

We basically played 6 guys in a double overtime game on the first night of a back to back down the stretch run of the season. I think we can find someone who can at least take some time off the starters in a double overtime back to-back game. I've already suggested Stanley Johnson and Juan Toscano-Anderson as guys who can play. Tatum 49 minutes and Brown 47 minutes and AL 46 minutes. Who knows who will play tonight?

Toscano-Anderson was never released by the Jazz after his trade there (he played last night even) so you really need to stop mentioning him as an option.

But look, they played a lineup with Jaylen and Tatum at the 2 and 3 most of last night.  Hauser exists, and gets a few minutes a night.  Pritchard rarely plays.  There are options on this team if Mazzulla is concerned about workload down the stretch, but he is clearly not.  I wanted Barton, because I thought he was the only buyout guy who stood a chance of getting some real minutes, because he might have been above the Hauser line.  Stanley Johnson is below the Grant/Muscala/Hauser line, so he’s not playing.

And Mazzulla has said why he’s not concerned about workload.  He thought that the team had reduced minutes too much down the stretch leading into the playoffs last year, and wants them playing more in March this year.  Whether that’s the correct strategy or not, we’ll find out in May and June, but the 15th man wouldn’t play, and we know this because better players on this team already don’t play.

Then use the 15th man as a practice body, or add a veteran voice to the locker room, or a young guy from Maine that we get a look at more closely.  Not signing anybody is just cheap.

For instance, could we have added a guy like this?

The Washington Wizards are signing Sydney Kings forward Xavier Cooks -- MVP of the National Basketball League in Australia -- to a deal through the 2023-24 season, Daniel Moldovan of Octagon Sports, his agent, told ESPN on Sunday.

Cooks, who'll join the Wizards as soon as the Kings complete play in the NBL Finals this week, comes to the NBA on a contract buyout and becomes the fifth player in five years to make the leap from that organization to the NBA.

Cooks, a 6-foot-8 power forward, is regarded as a switching, versatile defender with excellent passing skills. An Australian who went undrafted after an outstanding college career at Winthrop, Cooks, 27, is considered one of the NBL's and Kings' outstanding development stories. In his fourth season there, he was the Finals MVP in 2021-22 and the league's MVP in 2022-23.

I don't know what the contract terms are, but if it's a minimum deal, why not?  And if not Cooks, isn't there a similar player in the world, somewhere?  It just seems unlikely to me that there isn't one single available player that could add any benefit at all to the Celtics.

I’m not saying we shouldn’t have a 15th guy.  I’m saying that the 15th guy would have zero impact on this team’s play in the past week or in the next month, and has zero bearing on whether or not the team is out of gas.

I’m in favor of signing Tony Snell, but if we sign him or anybody else today vs. three weeks from now it won’t have an impact.

You are saying that signing a 15th man has no impact. Then why sign the 15th guy or even keep the 14th and 13th guy?

[Celtics2021]

It’s not like we’re playing Blake Griffin anyways, nor Kornet and Pritchard for more than a minute or two.  The 15th man wouldn’t play, which is why no one of any quality would have signed.

I feel like that's really the reason. Can we find someone who is a) better than Blake, Luke or Payton; b) will fit in with the rest of the players better and not affect on court chemistry; c) be willing to sit the pine for long stretches only to come in during injury; and d) be willing to do all this on the cheap. Blake is willing to do it, as is Luke - we've already heard reports that Payton isn't happy and would rather find more time elsewhere. Not making excuses for Brad, but it's not easy to find these types of players.

Oh and e) can quickly gain the trust of the coach and players that he can be relied upon, so close to the end of the season. If you look at Ime last year, he had a small circle of trust in terms of the players he used, he played a playoff rotation all the way through the playoffs. Joe has been willing to play more guys overall but as the season comes to an end he's shrank his rotation down to the people that he thinks will be able to deliver for him in the playoffs, in an effort to improve the chemistry and combinations so that the guys who are there don't have to think about what their teammates are doing, they just know what they are going to do, where they will be, etc.

I do agree they could bring someone on on a 10 day if it got to the point where we really needed someone, but what happens if that guy plays and is a disaster like Vonleh or Justin Jackson? It's a double edged sword - another player would help us (and would be exciting to the fans) but how to find the right player when the ones we already have aren't being used as much as they could be?

We basically played 6 guys in a double overtime game on the first night of a back to back down the stretch run of the season. I think we can find someone who can at least take some time off the starters in a double overtime back to-back game. I've already suggested Stanley Johnson and Juan Toscano-Anderson as guys who can play. Tatum 49 minutes and Brown 47 minutes and AL 46 minutes. Who knows who will play tonight?

Toscano-Anderson was never released by the Jazz after his trade there (he played last night even) so you really need to stop mentioning him as an option.

But look, they played a lineup with Jaylen and Tatum at the 2 and 3 most of last night.  Hauser exists, and gets a few minutes a night.  Pritchard rarely plays.  There are options on this team if Mazzulla is concerned about workload down the stretch, but he is clearly not.  I wanted Barton, because I thought he was the only buyout guy who stood a chance of getting some real minutes, because he might have been above the Hauser line.  Stanley Johnson is below the Grant/Muscala/Hauser line, so he’s not playing.

And Mazzulla has said why he’s not concerned about workload.  He thought that the team had reduced minutes too much down the stretch leading into the playoffs last year, and wants them playing more in March this year.  Whether that’s the correct strategy or not, we’ll find out in May and June, but the 15th man wouldn’t play, and we know this because better players on this team already don’t play.

Then use the 15th man as a practice body, or add a veteran voice to the locker room, or a young guy from Maine that we get a look at more closely.  Not signing anybody is just cheap.

For instance, could we have added a guy like this?

The Washington Wizards are signing Sydney Kings forward Xavier Cooks -- MVP of the National Basketball League in Australia -- to a deal through the 2023-24 season, Daniel Moldovan of Octagon Sports, his agent, told ESPN on Sunday.

Cooks, who'll join the Wizards as soon as the Kings complete play in the NBL Finals this week, comes to the NBA on a contract buyout and becomes the fifth player in five years to make the leap from that organization to the NBA.

Cooks, a 6-foot-8 power forward, is regarded as a switching, versatile defender with excellent passing skills. An Australian who went undrafted after an outstanding college career at Winthrop, Cooks, 27, is considered one of the NBL's and Kings' outstanding development stories. In his fourth season there, he was the Finals MVP in 2021-22 and the league's MVP in 2022-23.

I don't know what the contract terms are, but if it's a minimum deal, why not?  And if not Cooks, isn't there a similar player in the world, somewhere?  It just seems unlikely to me that there isn't one single available player that could add any benefit at all to the Celtics.

I’m not saying we shouldn’t have a 15th guy.  I’m saying that the 15th guy would have zero impact on this team’s play in the past week or in the next month, and has zero bearing on whether or not the team is out of gas.

I’m in favor of signing Tony Snell, but if we sign him or anybody else today vs. three weeks from now it won’t have an impact.

You are saying that signing a 15th man has no impact. Then why sign the 15th guy or even keep the 14th and 13th guy?

Because I’d like a look at a guy for next year, as well as a salary to trade in the off-season.

[Who]

Why do people care so much about the 15th man?

Dude ain't going to play anyways.

We got one of the deepest teams in the league as it is. 7 above average players. 3 solid end of bench guys. And then B Griffin and Kornet (surprisingly useful he has been) as deep bench guys for 12 playable guys.

[liam]

Why do people care so much about the 15th man?

Dude ain't going to play anyways.

We got one of the deepest teams in the league as it is. 7 above average players. 3 solid end of bench guys. And then B Griffin and Kornet (surprisingly useful he has been) as deep bench guys for 12 playable guys.

For one thing, he might be the 15th man depending on who we sign he could end up being the 10th man. We need every guy we can get on the other side of a back to back double overtime game. Milwaukee doesn't seem to think the late bench guys are unimportant. We have three guys out injured and a 36 year
old guy playing 46 minutes so we aren't really talking about a 15th man. we have Smart limping up and down the court and another starter playing with a broken cheek and wearing a mask. It's at least a 12th to 10th man depending on who we sign.

[liam]

The only argument I can think of for leaving that spot open is cheapness. We don't win our 2008 championship without PJ Brown.

[Who]

The only argument I can think of for leaving that spot open is cheapness. We don't win our 2008 championship without PJ Brown.

There is not PJ Brown available.

[Moranis]

The only argument I can think of for leaving that spot open is cheapness. We don't win our 2008 championship without PJ Brown.

There is not PJ Brown available.

Carmelo might fit that description at this point.

[Who]

The only argument I can think of for leaving that spot open is cheapness. We don't win our 2008 championship without PJ Brown.

There is not PJ Brown available.

Carmelo might fit that description at this point.

I have no interest in Melo. I believe he would cause more problems than he would solve with his ego, bad defense & shot-happy ways. He is not what this team needs.

Ego explanation = Would Melo be happy playing like B Griffin where he doesn't play most of the time and gets the odd game when the team needs him? Melo was happy in a regular bench role which he wasn't a few years ago but I do not know how well he'd handle another demotion to not playing most of the time.

[liam]

The only argument I can think of for leaving that spot open is cheapness. We don't win our 2008 championship without PJ Brown.

There is not PJ Brown available.

I bet PJ Brown is not doing much right now.

 

[liam]

Trevor Ariza
Stanley Johnson
Tyler Bey
LaMarcus Aldridge
Tomas Satoransky
D.J. Wilson
Marcus Garrett
Hassan Whiteside
Tyler Johnson
Timothe Luwawu-Cabarrot
Semi Ojeleye
Isaiah Roby
Carmelo
Dwayne Bacon (mmmm Bacon...)
Justin Bean
Serge Ibaka

[Moranis]

The only argument I can think of for leaving that spot open is cheapness. We don't win our 2008 championship without PJ Brown.

There is not PJ Brown available.

Carmelo might fit that description at this point.

I have no interest in Melo. I believe he would cause more problems than he would solve with his ego, bad defense & shot-happy ways. He is not what this team needs.

Ego explanation = Would Melo be happy playing like B Griffin where he doesn't play most of the time and gets the odd game when the team needs him? Melo was happy in a regular bench role which he wasn't a few years ago but I do not know how well he'd handle another demotion to not playing most of the time.

Why would Melo be in the Griffin role.  There is clearly room for a guy to play in the 3 or 4 role on this team.

[Who]

The only argument I can think of for leaving that spot open is cheapness. We don't win our 2008 championship without PJ Brown.

There is not PJ Brown available.

Carmelo might fit that description at this point.

I have no interest in Melo. I believe he would cause more problems than he would solve with his ego, bad defense & shot-happy ways. He is not what this team needs.

Ego explanation = Would Melo be happy playing like B Griffin where he doesn't play most of the time and gets the odd game when the team needs him? Melo was happy in a regular bench role which he wasn't a few years ago but I do not know how well he'd handle another demotion to not playing most of the time.

Why would Melo be in the Griffin role.  There is clearly room for a guy to play in the 3 or 4 role on this team.

Melo is not as good as Grant Williams. I would play Hauser and Muscala ahead of Melo as well.

[Who]

Trevor Ariza
Stanley Johnson
Tyler Bey
LaMarcus Aldridge
Tomas Satoransky
D.J. Wilson
Marcus Garrett
Hassan Whiteside
Tyler Johnson
Timothe Luwawu-Cabarrot
Semi Ojeleye
Isaiah Roby
Carmelo
Dwayne Bacon (mmmm Bacon...)
Justin Bean
Serge Ibaka

I don't think any of those guys are good enough to make Boston's rotation. None can provide the contribution that PJ Brown offered in 2008.

I like Tony Snell the best (or Stanley Johnson 2nd choice) but he would be the 12th or 13th man on this team. 13th or 14th if Gallo returns. Still a solid defender and alternative to Hauser as 3rd string wing / forward. Extra depth.

Either way - whether they sign Snell or not - it doesn't really matter to me given how far down the depth chart he is, how little he offers the team and how unlikely he is to be useful.

He comes, cool. He doesn't, that is grand. It is not changing the situation either way.