Author Topic: Time To Panic? I Think So  (Read 24583 times)

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Re: Time To Panic? I Think So
« Reply #225 on: March 19, 2023, 08:47:52 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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If I told you at the beginning of the year that Boston would win over 68% of its games with 11 to play, I think we'd all take that as that is a 55 or 56 win season.

The really unsustainable start has really caused much of this panic as Boston has come back to the mean of where it always should have been i.e. a mid 50's win team.

If you had asked us if we would start hot and then look like similar to the team from the 1st half of last year, I don't think many would take that deal.

Right.  It’s not the record, it’s the level of play.
Since Boston started 21-5 it is 28-18, which is basically a 50 win pace and would put Boston as the 5th seed only 1 game behind Cleveland for the 4th seed.  Since the start of February, Boston is actually winning a greater pace than the Cavs are on the season.

In other words, Boston's level of play is that of a top 4 or 5 team since it started out on fire.  I just don't buy the idea that Boston's level of play is not there.  Sure a game here or there they blow it, but that happens every year to basically any team that is not one of the best teams ever.

Last year’s Finals team is playing like the 7th or 8th best team.  I’m not sure that that’s worthy of celebration.


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Re: Time To Panic? I Think So
« Reply #226 on: March 19, 2023, 09:01:02 PM »

Offline Kuberski33

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Tatum and Smart have been especially poor during this slide. Couple that with Grant going south and no Rob and here we are.

Grant has played better recently. And it's not like they're getting blown out. They've looked great at times, then disinterest and clanging too many 3's takes over.

If they were losing by 20 points every night, I'd be really worried. But I think (hope) that when the games start meaning something their focus will pick up.

Re: Time To Panic? I Think So
« Reply #227 on: March 19, 2023, 09:32:03 PM »

Offline Moranis

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If I told you at the beginning of the year that Boston would win over 68% of its games with 11 to play, I think we'd all take that as that is a 55 or 56 win season.

The really unsustainable start has really caused much of this panic as Boston has come back to the mean of where it always should have been i.e. a mid 50's win team.

If you had asked us if we would start hot and then look like similar to the team from the 1st half of last year, I don't think many would take that deal.

Right.  It’s not the record, it’s the level of play.
Since Boston started 21-5 it is 28-18, which is basically a 50 win pace and would put Boston as the 5th seed only 1 game behind Cleveland for the 4th seed.  Since the start of February, Boston is actually winning a greater pace than the Cavs are on the season.

In other words, Boston's level of play is that of a top 4 or 5 team since it started out on fire.  I just don't buy the idea that Boston's level of play is not there.  Sure a game here or there they blow it, but that happens every year to basically any team that is not one of the best teams ever.

Last year’s Finals team is playing like the 7th or 8th best team.  I’m not sure that that’s worthy of celebration.
and if Middleton doesn't get hurt, Boston loses in the 2nd round last year.  Boston was not the 2nd best team in the sport last year.  Acting like they were, has been the problem on this blog all year.  Boston is a very good team, but they aren't an elite team and haven't been since KG got hurt.  That is the reality. 
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Re: Time To Panic? I Think So
« Reply #228 on: March 19, 2023, 09:56:14 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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If I told you at the beginning of the year that Boston would win over 68% of its games with 11 to play, I think we'd all take that as that is a 55 or 56 win season.

The really unsustainable start has really caused much of this panic as Boston has come back to the mean of where it always should have been i.e. a mid 50's win team.

If you had asked us if we would start hot and then look like similar to the team from the 1st half of last year, I don't think many would take that deal.

Right.  It’s not the record, it’s the level of play.
Since Boston started 21-5 it is 28-18, which is basically a 50 win pace and would put Boston as the 5th seed only 1 game behind Cleveland for the 4th seed.  Since the start of February, Boston is actually winning a greater pace than the Cavs are on the season.

In other words, Boston's level of play is that of a top 4 or 5 team since it started out on fire.  I just don't buy the idea that Boston's level of play is not there.  Sure a game here or there they blow it, but that happens every year to basically any team that is not one of the best teams ever.

Last year’s Finals team is playing like the 7th or 8th best team.  I’m not sure that that’s worthy of celebration.
and if Middleton doesn't get hurt, Boston loses in the 2nd round last year.  Boston was not the 2nd best team in the sport last year.  Acting like they were, has been the problem on this blog all year.  Boston is a very good team, but they aren't an elite team and haven't been since KG got hurt.  That is the reality.

Based upon their level of play, they were.  Multiple months of the #1 defense and #1 point differential.


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Re: Time To Panic? I Think So
« Reply #229 on: March 19, 2023, 10:21:56 PM »

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Boston needed a more experienced coach. Vogel maybe.

Re: Time To Panic? I Think So
« Reply #230 on: March 19, 2023, 10:25:48 PM »

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We're they not willing to pay for experience?

Re: Time To Panic? I Think So
« Reply #231 on: March 19, 2023, 11:03:56 PM »

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It's not over til it's over...Maybe al those months of resting Al in BBs...and giving the days off to a few guys was the plan all along--cause they knew knocking themselves out in the regular season means nothing at all.

Let's see them turn it up in the playoffs---cause Milw and Philly can't play any better than they have been.
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Re: Time To Panic? I Think So
« Reply #232 on: March 20, 2023, 06:25:59 AM »

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If I told you at the beginning of the year that Boston would win over 68% of its games with 11 to play, I think we'd all take that as that is a 55 or 56 win season.

The really unsustainable start has really caused much of this panic as Boston has come back to the mean of where it always should have been i.e. a mid 50's win team.

If you had asked us if we would start hot and then look like similar to the team from the 1st half of last year, I don't think many would take that deal.

Right.  It’s not the record, it’s the level of play.
Since Boston started 21-5 it is 28-18, which is basically a 50 win pace and would put Boston as the 5th seed only 1 game behind Cleveland for the 4th seed.  Since the start of February, Boston is actually winning a greater pace than the Cavs are on the season.

In other words, Boston's level of play is that of a top 4 or 5 team since it started out on fire.  I just don't buy the idea that Boston's level of play is not there.  Sure a game here or there they blow it, but that happens every year to basically any team that is not one of the best teams ever.

Last year’s Finals team is playing like the 7th or 8th best team.  I’m not sure that that’s worthy of celebration.
and if Middleton doesn't get hurt, Boston loses in the 2nd round last year.  Boston was not the 2nd best team in the sport last year.  Acting like they were, has been the problem on this blog all year.  Boston is a very good team, but they aren't an elite team and haven't been since KG got hurt.  That is the reality.

Who was the best team in the NBA the 2nd half of last season and the first quarter of this one?  That’s a long regular season stretch to be playing the best basketball in the league and not be considered elite relative to the competition. ”Elite” in this context doesn’t mean all-time great - it’s relative to who you’re playing. 

Re: Time To Panic? I Think So
« Reply #233 on: March 20, 2023, 06:52:43 AM »

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If I told you at the beginning of the year that Boston would win over 68% of its games with 11 to play, I think we'd all take that as that is a 55 or 56 win season.

The really unsustainable start has really caused much of this panic as Boston has come back to the mean of where it always should have been i.e. a mid 50's win team.

If you had asked us if we would start hot and then look like similar to the team from the 1st half of last year, I don't think many would take that deal.

Right.  It’s not the record, it’s the level of play.
Since Boston started 21-5 it is 28-18, which is basically a 50 win pace and would put Boston as the 5th seed only 1 game behind Cleveland for the 4th seed.  Since the start of February, Boston is actually winning a greater pace than the Cavs are on the season.

In other words, Boston's level of play is that of a top 4 or 5 team since it started out on fire.  I just don't buy the idea that Boston's level of play is not there.  Sure a game here or there they blow it, but that happens every year to basically any team that is not one of the best teams ever.

Last year’s Finals team is playing like the 7th or 8th best team.  I’m not sure that that’s worthy of celebration.
and if Middleton doesn't get hurt, Boston loses in the 2nd round last year.  Boston was not the 2nd best team in the sport last year.  Acting like they were, has been the problem on this blog all year.  Boston is a very good team, but they aren't an elite team and haven't been since KG got hurt.  That is the reality.

At a certain point you are who your record says you are. We can amend asterisks to every team and every season as often as we'd like, but it doesn't change much about how the season went - whether we 'fluked' our way into the Finals last year is mostly irrelevant.
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Re: Time To Panic? I Think So
« Reply #234 on: March 20, 2023, 07:53:34 AM »

Offline iadera

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If I told you at the beginning of the year that Boston would win over 68% of its games with 11 to play, I think we'd all take that as that is a 55 or 56 win season.

The really unsustainable start has really caused much of this panic as Boston has come back to the mean of where it always should have been i.e. a mid 50's win team.

If you had asked us if we would start hot and then look like similar to the team from the 1st half of last year, I don't think many would take that deal.

Right.  It’s not the record, it’s the level of play.
Since Boston started 21-5 it is 28-18, which is basically a 50 win pace and would put Boston as the 5th seed only 1 game behind Cleveland for the 4th seed.  Since the start of February, Boston is actually winning a greater pace than the Cavs are on the season.

In other words, Boston's level of play is that of a top 4 or 5 team since it started out on fire.  I just don't buy the idea that Boston's level of play is not there.  Sure a game here or there they blow it, but that happens every year to basically any team that is not one of the best teams ever.

Last year’s Finals team is playing like the 7th or 8th best team.  I’m not sure that that’s worthy of celebration.
and if Middleton doesn't get hurt, Boston loses in the 2nd round last year.  Boston was not the 2nd best team in the sport last year.  Acting like they were, has been the problem on this blog all year.  Boston is a very good team, but they aren't an elite team and haven't been since KG got hurt.  That is the reality.

Sad, but true.

Re: Time To Panic? I Think So
« Reply #235 on: March 20, 2023, 08:04:11 AM »

Offline Roy H.

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If I told you at the beginning of the year that Boston would win over 68% of its games with 11 to play, I think we'd all take that as that is a 55 or 56 win season.

The really unsustainable start has really caused much of this panic as Boston has come back to the mean of where it always should have been i.e. a mid 50's win team.

If you had asked us if we would start hot and then look like similar to the team from the 1st half of last year, I don't think many would take that deal.

Right.  It’s not the record, it’s the level of play.
Since Boston started 21-5 it is 28-18, which is basically a 50 win pace and would put Boston as the 5th seed only 1 game behind Cleveland for the 4th seed.  Since the start of February, Boston is actually winning a greater pace than the Cavs are on the season.

In other words, Boston's level of play is that of a top 4 or 5 team since it started out on fire.  I just don't buy the idea that Boston's level of play is not there.  Sure a game here or there they blow it, but that happens every year to basically any team that is not one of the best teams ever.

Last year’s Finals team is playing like the 7th or 8th best team.  I’m not sure that that’s worthy of celebration.
and if Middleton doesn't get hurt, Boston loses in the 2nd round last year.  Boston was not the 2nd best team in the sport last year.  Acting like they were, has been the problem on this blog all year.  Boston is a very good team, but they aren't an elite team and haven't been since KG got hurt.  That is the reality.

Sad, but true.

I don't think this is true at all.  Boston was the best team in the NBA for around 4 months last season, and the first 25 games or so of this season.  There was nothing flukeish about the Finals run.


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Re: Time To Panic? I Think So
« Reply #236 on: March 20, 2023, 08:21:59 AM »

Offline Donoghus

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If I told you at the beginning of the year that Boston would win over 68% of its games with 11 to play, I think we'd all take that as that is a 55 or 56 win season.

The really unsustainable start has really caused much of this panic as Boston has come back to the mean of where it always should have been i.e. a mid 50's win team.

If you had asked us if we would start hot and then look like similar to the team from the 1st half of last year, I don't think many would take that deal.

Right.  It’s not the record, it’s the level of play.
Since Boston started 21-5 it is 28-18, which is basically a 50 win pace and would put Boston as the 5th seed only 1 game behind Cleveland for the 4th seed.  Since the start of February, Boston is actually winning a greater pace than the Cavs are on the season.

In other words, Boston's level of play is that of a top 4 or 5 team since it started out on fire.  I just don't buy the idea that Boston's level of play is not there.  Sure a game here or there they blow it, but that happens every year to basically any team that is not one of the best teams ever.

Last year’s Finals team is playing like the 7th or 8th best team.  I’m not sure that that’s worthy of celebration.
and if Middleton doesn't get hurt, Boston loses in the 2nd round last year.  Boston was not the 2nd best team in the sport last year.  Acting like they were, has been the problem on this blog all year.  Boston is a very good team, but they aren't an elite team and haven't been since KG got hurt.  That is the reality.

Sad, but true.

I don't think this is true at all.  Boston was the best team in the NBA for around 4 months last season, and the first 25 games or so of this season.  There was nothing flukeish about the Finals run.

This is true.


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Re: Time To Panic? I Think So
« Reply #237 on: March 20, 2023, 09:25:44 AM »

Offline Moranis

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If I told you at the beginning of the year that Boston would win over 68% of its games with 11 to play, I think we'd all take that as that is a 55 or 56 win season.

The really unsustainable start has really caused much of this panic as Boston has come back to the mean of where it always should have been i.e. a mid 50's win team.

If you had asked us if we would start hot and then look like similar to the team from the 1st half of last year, I don't think many would take that deal.

Right.  It’s not the record, it’s the level of play.
Since Boston started 21-5 it is 28-18, which is basically a 50 win pace and would put Boston as the 5th seed only 1 game behind Cleveland for the 4th seed.  Since the start of February, Boston is actually winning a greater pace than the Cavs are on the season.

In other words, Boston's level of play is that of a top 4 or 5 team since it started out on fire.  I just don't buy the idea that Boston's level of play is not there.  Sure a game here or there they blow it, but that happens every year to basically any team that is not one of the best teams ever.

Last year’s Finals team is playing like the 7th or 8th best team.  I’m not sure that that’s worthy of celebration.
and if Middleton doesn't get hurt, Boston loses in the 2nd round last year.  Boston was not the 2nd best team in the sport last year.  Acting like they were, has been the problem on this blog all year.  Boston is a very good team, but they aren't an elite team and haven't been since KG got hurt.  That is the reality.

Sad, but true.

I don't think this is true at all.  Boston was the best team in the NBA for around 4 months last season, and the first 25 games or so of this season.  There was nothing flukeish about the Finals run.

This is true.
Milwaukee with Middleton was better than Boston last year, but that doesn't mean Boston's finals run was a fluke.  Boston was a very good team, but Milwaukee was simply better if they were at full strength.  That is all opinion since they didn't play at full strength (or at least what the playoff full strength would have been) at all last year.  It ended up as a close 7 game series in which Milwaukee didn't have their 2nd best scorer and shot generator at all.  I think Middleton would have more than made up the ground in a close series.  Giannis just had to carry too much of the offensive load that series (Holiday is much more a 3rd offensive option in his style of play) and Giannis was worn down by the end of games 6 and 7 especially, but basically in every game.  Milwaukee only won 2 4th quarters in the series, game 1 by 4 and game 5 by 12, the other 4th quarters were all won by Boston by 6, 11, 15, 1, and 13.  The game generally got away from the Bucks down the stretch because Giannis wasn't quite as good as he got tired, and Giannis being that much better than everyone else is how the Bucks were winning those games.  Sure, maybe Middleton being there has a ripple effect and Boston still wins the series, I just don't think that happens as the Bucks in my view were better than Boston, just as they are this year as well (if they can get Middleton up to around 70% of what he was preinjury). 
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Re: Time To Panic? I Think So
« Reply #238 on: March 20, 2023, 09:32:42 AM »

Offline Roy H.

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If I told you at the beginning of the year that Boston would win over 68% of its games with 11 to play, I think we'd all take that as that is a 55 or 56 win season.

The really unsustainable start has really caused much of this panic as Boston has come back to the mean of where it always should have been i.e. a mid 50's win team.

If you had asked us if we would start hot and then look like similar to the team from the 1st half of last year, I don't think many would take that deal.

Right.  It’s not the record, it’s the level of play.
Since Boston started 21-5 it is 28-18, which is basically a 50 win pace and would put Boston as the 5th seed only 1 game behind Cleveland for the 4th seed.  Since the start of February, Boston is actually winning a greater pace than the Cavs are on the season.

In other words, Boston's level of play is that of a top 4 or 5 team since it started out on fire.  I just don't buy the idea that Boston's level of play is not there.  Sure a game here or there they blow it, but that happens every year to basically any team that is not one of the best teams ever.

Last year’s Finals team is playing like the 7th or 8th best team.  I’m not sure that that’s worthy of celebration.
and if Middleton doesn't get hurt, Boston loses in the 2nd round last year.  Boston was not the 2nd best team in the sport last year.  Acting like they were, has been the problem on this blog all year.  Boston is a very good team, but they aren't an elite team and haven't been since KG got hurt.  That is the reality.

Sad, but true.

I don't think this is true at all.  Boston was the best team in the NBA for around 4 months last season, and the first 25 games or so of this season.  There was nothing flukeish about the Finals run.

This is true.
Milwaukee with Middleton was better than Boston last year, but that doesn't mean Boston's finals run was a fluke.  Boston was a very good team, but Milwaukee was simply better if they were at full strength.  That is all opinion since they didn't play at full strength (or at least what the playoff full strength would have been) at all last year.  It ended up as a close 7 game series in which Milwaukee didn't have their 2nd best scorer and shot generator at all.  I think Middleton would have more than made up the ground in a close series.  Giannis just had to carry too much of the offensive load that series (Holiday is much more a 3rd offensive option in his style of play) and Giannis was worn down by the end of games 6 and 7 especially, but basically in every game.  Milwaukee only won 2 4th quarters in the series, game 1 by 4 and game 5 by 12, the other 4th quarters were all won by Boston by 6, 11, 15, 1, and 13.  The game generally got away from the Bucks down the stretch because Giannis wasn't quite as good as he got tired, and Giannis being that much better than everyone else is how the Bucks were winning those games.  Sure, maybe Middleton being there has a ripple effect and Boston still wins the series, I just don't think that happens as the Bucks in my view are better than Boston, just as they are this year as well (if they can get Middleton up to around 70% of what he was preinjury).

Why don't you ever take Timelord's absence into account when talking about that series?

My opinion:  if we have a fully healthy Timelord and they have a fully healthy Middleton, we win.

That's unrealistic, though, because there was never going to be a fully healthy version of either player.  So, give me a rough approximation of 2023 Middleton and 2023 Timelord in that series, and we still win.

The only way we don't win is fully healthy Middleton plays, Timelord is absent in games 4 through 7.  Under that odd scenario, I think you're correct.


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Re: Time To Panic? I Think So
« Reply #239 on: March 20, 2023, 09:35:43 AM »

Offline Phantom255x

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If I told you at the beginning of the year that Boston would win over 68% of its games with 11 to play, I think we'd all take that as that is a 55 or 56 win season.

The really unsustainable start has really caused much of this panic as Boston has come back to the mean of where it always should have been i.e. a mid 50's win team.

If you had asked us if we would start hot and then look like similar to the team from the 1st half of last year, I don't think many would take that deal.

Right.  It’s not the record, it’s the level of play.
Since Boston started 21-5 it is 28-18, which is basically a 50 win pace and would put Boston as the 5th seed only 1 game behind Cleveland for the 4th seed.  Since the start of February, Boston is actually winning a greater pace than the Cavs are on the season.

In other words, Boston's level of play is that of a top 4 or 5 team since it started out on fire.  I just don't buy the idea that Boston's level of play is not there.  Sure a game here or there they blow it, but that happens every year to basically any team that is not one of the best teams ever.

Last year’s Finals team is playing like the 7th or 8th best team.  I’m not sure that that’s worthy of celebration.
and if Middleton doesn't get hurt, Boston loses in the 2nd round last year.  Boston was not the 2nd best team in the sport last year.  Acting like they were, has been the problem on this blog all year.  Boston is a very good team, but they aren't an elite team and haven't been since KG got hurt.  That is the reality.

Sad, but true.

I don't think this is true at all.  Boston was the best team in the NBA for around 4 months last season, and the first 25 games or so of this season.  There was nothing flukeish about the Finals run.

This is true.
Milwaukee with Middleton was better than Boston last year, but that doesn't mean Boston's finals run was a fluke.  Boston was a very good team, but Milwaukee was simply better if they were at full strength.  That is all opinion since they didn't play at full strength (or at least what the playoff full strength would have been) at all last year.  It ended up as a close 7 game series in which Milwaukee didn't have their 2nd best scorer and shot generator at all.  I think Middleton would have more than made up the ground in a close series.  Giannis just had to carry too much of the offensive load that series (Holiday is much more a 3rd offensive option in his style of play) and Giannis was worn down by the end of games 6 and 7 especially, but basically in every game.  Milwaukee only won 2 4th quarters in the series, game 1 by 4 and game 5 by 12, the other 4th quarters were all won by Boston by 6, 11, 15, 1, and 13.  The game generally got away from the Bucks down the stretch because Giannis wasn't quite as good as he got tired, and Giannis being that much better than everyone else is how the Bucks were winning those games.  Sure, maybe Middleton being there has a ripple effect and Boston still wins the series, I just don't think that happens as the Bucks in my view were better than Boston, just as they are this year as well (if they can get Middleton up to around 70% of what he was preinjury).

Dude, I know Middleton is a Celtics killer and a fantastic player, but at the same time your posts about him when comparing Milwaukee and Boston make it sound like he's Michael Jordan  :laugh:

Yeah if they are fully healthy the Bucks probably are the best team in the NBA, but isn't that kind of true for other teams? Like if Boston was fully healthy with Timelord are we sure MIL is "definitely" better by a big margin? Sometimes injuries/durability does become a factor.

Middleton's done better and found a bit of a groove lately but he's still not the same guy as pre-injury. We can also say the same about Timelord too, and I think a fully healthy Timelord is one of the best players between both teams (maybe not Top-5, but 6 or 7 and not far behind Middleton) 
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