Author Topic: Time To Panic? I Think So  (Read 9466 times)

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Re: Time To Panic? I Think So
« Reply #195 on: March 19, 2023, 04:32:59 AM »

Offline Damiano Brancopreto

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Once again:
very bad decisions in the last 2 minutes: ball to JT that from behind the 3 point line play 1vs 2 or 3 and misses (coach and JT fault);  or ball to GW that takes the wrong decision (player fault); and constantly bad bad defense when you need it the most. This HAD to be fixed long long ago...at least try a good execution, then if you loose the ball, at least you acquired experience. So to me, most is Joe's fault. 2nd place looks gone. Try to recover at best for the PFs and work on this.

Re: Time To Panic? I Think So
« Reply #196 on: March 19, 2023, 05:08:54 AM »

Offline GetLucky

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Agreed that the same ATO play is getting a bit old. Especially against the Rockets when the cool wrinkle worked with Jaylen and then they ran it the very next play for JT.

I really hope Mazulla is running the same ATO play at the end of every game to keep his best plays up his sleeves for the playoffs. I'll admit that that's not the most likely answer, though. 

Re: Time To Panic? I Think So
« Reply #197 on: March 19, 2023, 05:45:03 AM »

Offline radiohead

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Agreed that the same ATO play is getting a bit old. Especially against the Rockets when the cool wrinkle worked with Jaylen and then they ran it the very next play for JT.

I really hope Mazulla is running the same ATO play at the end of every game to keep his best plays up his sleeves for the playoffs. I'll admit that that's not the most likely answer, though.

Hardy read the play brilliantly. I just donít know why there was no second or third action because JT and JB stood their ground. Then again there were just 5 seconds left. Everyone in the arena knew that the ball was gonna go to JT. That was defended perfectly. Maybe next time run a different action for JB or Malcolm and make JT a decoy? Thereís a saying that in these types of situations, the most dangerous guy is the inbounder.  It baffles me why Brogdon stayed out of bounds. Just poor play calling by Joe.

Re: Time To Panic? I Think So
« Reply #198 on: March 19, 2023, 06:15:17 AM »

Offline ozgod

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Agreed that the same ATO play is getting a bit old. Especially against the Rockets when the cool wrinkle worked with Jaylen and then they ran it the very next play for JT.

I really hope Mazulla is running the same ATO play at the end of every game to keep his best plays up his sleeves for the playoffs. I'll admit that that's not the most likely answer, though.

Hardy read the play brilliantly. I just donít know why there was no second or third action because JT and JB stood their ground. Then again there were just 5 seconds left. Everyone in the arena knew that the ball was gonna go to JT. That was defended perfectly. Maybe next time run a different action for JB or Malcolm and make JT a decoy? Thereís a saying that in these types of situations, the most dangerous guy is the inbounder.  It baffles me why Brogdon stayed out of bounds. Just poor play calling by Joe.

Yeah I posted this in the game thread but they didn't create other options for the play with JT's lack of movement. I'm sure JB could have looped around further than he did but he stopped when he saw that GWill had his back turned to him trying to get the ball.  He probably didn't want to end up in the middle of the court and possibly in JT's way if JT got the ball. By the time he got the ball the only real viable option other than GWill taking it to the basket was a pass to Hauser which would have been over his right shoulder when he was already going to his left. Maybe he could have risked it, Olynyk had left Hauser open to help Kessler at the rim but it would have been risky, given that GWill isn't the greatest passer and he would have been passing away from the direction he was going.


---

Here's GWill in his own words explaining what happened on the last play.


https://youtu.be/33Bd3dMm5u0

And here's the last play again.


https://youtu.be/EATdnJsTu34

You can see in hindsight what they were trying to do, GWill was supposed to run out to the 3 point line and hand it off to Tatum who was being guarded by Agbaji. Probably the plan was for Tatum to get downhill once GWill got the ball around where the Vivint sign on the floor was and screen off Adbaji either to go to the basket or hit a 3 or midrange jumper. JB also tried to loop around towards the top of the key for a midrange shot but THT blocked his way. But Markannen switched to GWill and Kessler stayed under the basket, so GWill switched directions running back towards the paint and when he got it his passing lanes to either Jay was blocked so he went for the shot. Olynyk helped off Hauser so maybe he could have passed to him but I guess with 2-3 sec left he just went for the shot and missed.

Obviously we remember that play as it ended the game but for me giving up a 46-22 run mostly because of a 17-5 offensive rebound deficit was what lost us the game. But Joe probably should put away that ATO where Tatum is at the top of the key for a while, I think everyone knows that's always the main option in that play. Hardy clearly knew that which was why Markannen switched and stopped GWill from running towards Tatum. The best plays have at least 3 possible outcomes to keep the defense guessing. You don't want to have one play with one outcome that everyone knows is going to happen, those are the easiest ones to defend.

At this point I could care less about the seedings...I think they need to (somehow, in the 12 games left) get back to playing their best basketball. Giving up 19 point leads is not good basketball.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2023, 06:20:27 AM by ozgod »
Any odd typos are because I suck at typing on an iPhone :D

Re: Time To Panic? I Think So
« Reply #199 on: March 19, 2023, 07:17:45 AM »

Offline Birdman

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Now we are 3rd seed, Philly are playing great
C/PF-Horford, Baynes, Noel, Theis, Morris,
SF/SG- Tatum, Brown, Hayward, Smart, Semi, Clark
PG- Irving, Rozier, Larkin

Re: Time To Panic? I Think So
« Reply #200 on: March 19, 2023, 08:17:04 AM »

Offline Moranis

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If I told you at the beginning of the year that Boston would win over 68% of its games with 11 to play, I think we'd all take that as that is a 55 or 56 win season.

The really unsustainable start has really caused much of this panic as Boston has come back to the mean of where it always should have been i.e. a mid 50's win team.
I was finally wrong. Boston not only didn't win in 5, but didn't win at all.

Re: Time To Panic? I Think So
« Reply #201 on: March 19, 2023, 08:35:04 AM »

Online Celtics2021

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If I told you at the beginning of the year that Boston would win over 68% of its games with 11 to play, I think we'd all take that as that is a 55 or 56 win season.

The really unsustainable start has really caused much of this panic as Boston has come back to the mean of where it always should have been i.e. a mid 50's win team.

This is why I bet the under on the season win totals at the beginning of the year.  Iíve been very sanguine about this season ó they underperform, Iím compensated.  Theyíre still over-performing those preseason projections (which, mind you, had them as a title favorite along with the Clippers), and itís easy for me to remember that because I know Iíve lost my bet barring a total collapse down the stretch.

Re: Time To Panic? I Think So
« Reply #202 on: March 19, 2023, 08:39:24 AM »

Offline ozgod

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If I told you at the beginning of the year that Boston would win over 68% of its games with 11 to play, I think we'd all take that as that is a 55 or 56 win season.

The really unsustainable start has really caused much of this panic as Boston has come back to the mean of where it always should have been i.e. a mid 50's win team.

Yup, people reset expectations based on their performance over the season. Last season was fun because they started terrible, nobody gave them a hope, and they finished the regular season strong so they exceeded everyone's expectations. This year everyone already had high expectations due to last season, then they started on fire and tailed off, which is causing some angst for people.

Thankfully they're not competing against their early season version of themselves or even last year's version - they're competing against the other teams that will make the playoffs. So really we have to think about whether they can beat some of Brooklyn, Miami, Philly, Milwaukee and whoever comes out of the West.
Any odd typos are because I suck at typing on an iPhone :D

Re: Time To Panic? I Think So
« Reply #203 on: March 19, 2023, 10:09:27 AM »

Offline angryguy77

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If I told you at the beginning of the year that Boston would win over 68% of its games with 11 to play, I think we'd all take that as that is a 55 or 56 win season.

The really unsustainable start has really caused much of this panic as Boston has come back to the mean of where it always should have been i.e. a mid 50's win team.

If you had asked us if we would start hot and then look like similar to the team from the 1st half of last year, I don't think many would take that deal.

Fire Joe.

Re: Time To Panic? I Think So
« Reply #204 on: March 19, 2023, 10:23:17 AM »

Offline BringToughnessBack

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What I am most concerned about is how our coach has added more time on to the tired bodies of both Tatum and Brown. Tatum looks burnt out.

Tatum is at 37.4 min per game. Year before, 35.9.

 Brown is at 36.2.

Brad would keep them closer to 33-35.

What is the point in  having depth if we are going to ride out 2 stars so much before the playoffs.

Tatum once again with 38 plus minutes last night.

I am officially panicking about them being overused. Didnt last years running out gas teach us anything?

Re: Time To Panic? I Think So
« Reply #205 on: March 19, 2023, 10:27:45 AM »

Online Roy H.

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If I told you at the beginning of the year that Boston would win over 68% of its games with 11 to play, I think we'd all take that as that is a 55 or 56 win season.

The really unsustainable start has really caused much of this panic as Boston has come back to the mean of where it always should have been i.e. a mid 50's win team.

If you had asked us if we would start hot and then look like similar to the team from the 1st half of last year, I don't think many would take that deal.

Right.  Itís not the record, itís the level of play.


I'M THE SILVERBACK GORILLA IN THIS MOTHERóóó AND DON'T NONE OF YA'LL EVER FORGET IT!@ 34 minutes

Re: Time To Panic? I Think So
« Reply #206 on: March 19, 2023, 11:12:00 AM »

Offline td450

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What I am most concerned about is how our coach has added more time on to the tired bodies of both Tatum and Brown. Tatum looks burnt out.

Tatum is at 37.4 min per game. Year before, 35.9.

 Brown is at 36.2.

Brad would keep them closer to 33-35.

What is the point in  having depth if we are going to ride out 2 stars so much before the playoffs.

Tatum once again with 38 plus minutes last night.

I am officially panicking about them being overused. Didnt last years running out gas teach us anything?

I think the narrative that Tatum just plays too much and is worn out is the wrong way to look at it.

He just turned 25. An extra 3 minutes a night probably is not the margin of error here. The season is long and the overall mental workload, which encompasses the whole experience of being the face of a contending franchise, for Tatum, is substantial. He'd still feel almost exactly the same mental grind if he was playing 34 minutes a game.

It seems like we all just aren't willing to face the reality that Tatum's basic competitive nature is more pedestrian than his other basketball skills. He's not a weak competitor, but he has shown he can't sustain a killer mentality out there all the time either. When he's feeling it, he will eat you alive. When he's having a tough time, he sometimes loses his competitive edge.

Is this about a little rest, or is it that he just hasn't figured out how to maintain laser like focus when he gets fatigued or frustrated? I think its the latter.

Very few players have this top level of competitiveness. Its just that the few who do seem to win almost all the titles.

If the C's are going to win a title, it will be because he was locked in when he needed to be. The playoffs are next level intense. He either takes this final step or there won't be a title this year. I'd rather he face this straight up rather than pretend that it will all be fixed by taking a few minutes off.

Re: Time To Panic? I Think So
« Reply #207 on: March 19, 2023, 11:40:13 AM »

Offline Neurotic Guy

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If I told you at the beginning of the year that Boston would win over 68% of its games with 11 to play, I think we'd all take that as that is a 55 or 56 win season.

The really unsustainable start has really caused much of this panic as Boston has come back to the mean of where it always should have been i.e. a mid 50's win team.

If you had asked us if we would start hot and then look like similar to the team from the 1st half of last year, I don't think many would take that deal.

Right.  Itís not the record, itís the level of play.

Yes - Mo is wrong.  What we are seeing (and he is seeing) is a team that went to the NBA Finals last year, finished 2 wins shy of a championship, had a 2nd half of the year in 2021-22 in which they played a long stretch of dominant basketball, added Malcolm Brogdon to an already stacked roster, had a 25 game stretch to start this year in which they were the best team in the NBA... and have looked, since January, like a mildly better than mediocre NBA team.  The Celtics currently look vulnerable to a 1st round defeat -- something that was totally unexpected coming into the season.  This doesn't mean they will be a 1st round out -- but that it seems entirely plausible and that most of us, I think, would be surprised to see them get past Philly in round 2 (despite our success v. them), is not where we expected them to be.   55 wins, maybe that was expected. Looking like a run of the mill playoff team that no team in their right mind would fear - unexpected. 

Re: Time To Panic? I Think So
« Reply #208 on: March 19, 2023, 11:45:59 AM »

Online Phantom255x

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What I am most concerned about is how our coach has added more time on to the tired bodies of both Tatum and Brown. Tatum looks burnt out.

Tatum is at 37.4 min per game. Year before, 35.9.

 Brown is at 36.2.

Brad would keep them closer to 33-35.

What is the point in  having depth if we are going to ride out 2 stars so much before the playoffs.

Tatum once again with 38 plus minutes last night.

I am officially panicking about them being overused. Didnt last years running out gas teach us anything?

Tatum had a sore hip from Wednesday, and they still played him in the B2B stretch yet Tatum definitely didn't look right last night (and looked putrid for stretches). But idk, doesn't seem like the coach has a pulse on the team or on how to utilize them with the random rotations he throws out there every game
"Tough times never last, but tough people do." - Robert H. Schuller

Re: Time To Panic? I Think So
« Reply #209 on: March 19, 2023, 12:08:05 PM »

Offline td450

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Agreed that the same ATO play is getting a bit old. Especially against the Rockets when the cool wrinkle worked with Jaylen and then they ran it the very next play for JT.

I really hope Mazulla is running the same ATO play at the end of every game to keep his best plays up his sleeves for the playoffs. I'll admit that that's not the most likely answer, though.

Hardy read the play brilliantly. I just donít know why there was no second or third action because JT and JB stood their ground. Then again there were just 5 seconds left. Everyone in the arena knew that the ball was gonna go to JT. That was defended perfectly. Maybe next time run a different action for JB or Malcolm and make JT a decoy? Thereís a saying that in these types of situations, the most dangerous guy is the inbounder.  It baffles me why Brogdon stayed out of bounds. Just poor play calling by Joe.

Yeah I posted this in the game thread but they didn't create other options for the play with JT's lack of movement. I'm sure JB could have looped around further than he did but he stopped when he saw that GWill had his back turned to him trying to get the ball.  He probably didn't want to end up in the middle of the court and possibly in JT's way if JT got the ball. By the time he got the ball the only real viable option other than GWill taking it to the basket was a pass to Hauser which would have been over his right shoulder when he was already going to his left. Maybe he could have risked it, Olynyk had left Hauser open to help Kessler at the rim but it would have been risky, given that GWill isn't the greatest passer and he would have been passing away from the direction he was going.


---

Here's GWill in his own words explaining what happened on the last play.


https://youtu.be/33Bd3dMm5u0

And here's the last play again.


https://youtu.be/EATdnJsTu34

You can see in hindsight what they were trying to do, GWill was supposed to run out to the 3 point line and hand it off to Tatum who was being guarded by Agbaji. Probably the plan was for Tatum to get downhill once GWill got the ball around where the Vivint sign on the floor was and screen off Adbaji either to go to the basket or hit a 3 or midrange jumper. JB also tried to loop around towards the top of the key for a midrange shot but THT blocked his way. But Markannen switched to GWill and Kessler stayed under the basket, so GWill switched directions running back towards the paint and when he got it his passing lanes to either Jay was blocked so he went for the shot. Olynyk helped off Hauser so maybe he could have passed to him but I guess with 2-3 sec left he just went for the shot and missed.

Obviously we remember that play as it ended the game but for me giving up a 46-22 run mostly because of a 17-5 offensive rebound deficit was what lost us the game. But Joe probably should put away that ATO where Tatum is at the top of the key for a while, I think everyone knows that's always the main option in that play. Hardy clearly knew that which was why Markannen switched and stopped GWill from running towards Tatum. The best plays have at least 3 possible outcomes to keep the defense guessing. You don't want to have one play with one outcome that everyone knows is going to happen, those are the easiest ones to defend.

At this point I could care less about the seedings...I think they need to (somehow, in the 12 games left) get back to playing their best basketball. Giving up 19 point leads is not good basketball.

It was a bad play.

There were only two realistic inbound options given the positioning. Brogdon could have thrown it back to Tatum easily enough. Williams was the only other conceivable target.  He still got the ball cleanly enough, although he may have wanted it a bit further out. Markannen slipped, so there was space and time to operate.

It didn't appear that Brown was supposed to do anything other than draw a man away.

Tatum didn't run into the play.  He just stood there. Pretty sure he was supposed to go get the ball so that was a pretty big mistake. That forced Grant to make the final play by himself.

Grant should have gone for the daylight mid lane and taken a short shot, but instead drove into a double team.

Hauser and Brown were not positioned to participate. Tatum checked out mentally. Brogdon didn't even come in bounds. The whole play depended on Williams making the play with no screen, in less than 5 seconds.

A failure on multiple levels. Yuck