J.J. Redick: The NBA is more physical than in the 80s, 90s

[liam]

Reddick doesn't just say stuff. He strikes me as a genuine guy.

I've thought something somewhat similar actually. Parts of the game in the 80s and 90s were way more physical - hand-checking, for example. I also think it was much more acceptable to give hard fouls going to the rim, even though that didn't happen as often as we think it did.

But the modern game is physical in different ways. Players might not be getting leveled going to the rim, or getting pushed off their spots, but cutting off-ball is very different. Every little bump off-ball today is at full speed. If you watch the game in the 80s and 90s, the defense is a bit more passive and finesse off-ball, especially on screens. I also think the modern NBA does a really good job at contending at the rim, which means that players have to bounce off players at the rim and absorb contact. They aren't getting leveled, but they are absorbing a lot of contact.

They really are very different games. Parts were more physical and parts were less physical. Parts were harder and parts were easier.

The Pistons say "Hi"...

I'm not saying there weren't teams that were more physical than others, but even watching Piston games, you can see that parts of the game are a bit more finesse than today's game, while parts are more physical than today's game.

I can just see Robert Parish beating Laimbeer into the ground in my mind...

[Donoghus]

Reddick doesn't just say stuff. He strikes me as a genuine guy.

I've thought something somewhat similar actually. Parts of the game in the 80s and 90s were way more physical - hand-checking, for example. I also think it was much more acceptable to give hard fouls going to the rim, even though that didn't happen as often as we think it did.

But the modern game is physical in different ways. Players might not be getting leveled going to the rim, or getting pushed off their spots, but cutting off-ball is very different. Every little bump off-ball today is at full speed. If you watch the game in the 80s and 90s, the defense is a bit more passive and finesse off-ball, especially on screens. I also think the modern NBA does a really good job at contending at the rim, which means that players have to bounce off players at the rim and absorb contact. They aren't getting leveled, but they are absorbing a lot of contact.

They really are very different games. Parts were more physical and parts were less physical. Parts were harder and parts were easier.

The Pistons say "Hi"...

I'm not saying there weren't teams that were more physical than others, but even watching Piston games, you can see that parts of the game are a bit more finesse than today's game, while parts are more physical than today's game.

I can just see Robert Parish beating Laimbeer into the ground in my mind...

And wasn't even called for a foul. 

[liam]

Reddick doesn't just say stuff. He strikes me as a genuine guy.

I've thought something somewhat similar actually. Parts of the game in the 80s and 90s were way more physical - hand-checking, for example. I also think it was much more acceptable to give hard fouls going to the rim, even though that didn't happen as often as we think it did.

But the modern game is physical in different ways. Players might not be getting leveled going to the rim, or getting pushed off their spots, but cutting off-ball is very different. Every little bump off-ball today is at full speed. If you watch the game in the 80s and 90s, the defense is a bit more passive and finesse off-ball, especially on screens. I also think the modern NBA does a really good job at contending at the rim, which means that players have to bounce off players at the rim and absorb contact. They aren't getting leveled, but they are absorbing a lot of contact.

They really are very different games. Parts were more physical and parts were less physical. Parts were harder and parts were easier.

The Pistons say "Hi"...

I'm not saying there weren't teams that were more physical than others, but even watching Piston games, you can see that parts of the game are a bit more finesse than today's game, while parts are more physical than today's game.

I can just see Robert Parish beating Laimbeer into the ground in my mind...

And wasn't even called for a foul. 

Laimbeer's head was part of the ball!

 

[Who]

Reddick doesn't just say stuff. He strikes me as a genuine guy.

Yeah, I see him the same way. I remember when the NBA did their 75 best players list and JJ Redick was talking about. He was pretty derogatory towards the older players on the list. He didn't think anyone from the 50s should be on it and he talked about guys in the 60s playing against plumbers and the like.

He very much believes on today being the best the NBA has ever been. That players today are better than they ever have been before. That this is the most skilled players have ever been. The best shooters, the best ball-handlers. The quickest, most athletic best trained athletes.

That today's players do more in terms of practicing and getting developmental coaches, doing more with their diet and nutrition, doing more with physical exercise and weight training.

That players from the past cannot compare to players of today.

He very much comes from that type of viewpoint. That everything is better today than it was before. Rather than some things are better and some things are worse. Everything is better. Today is the best day there ever has been. And tomorrow will be better.

So this comment on the 80s and physicality is on fairly similar lines of thought to things I have heard Redick say in the past.

I think I have also heard him say the physical demands of today's game are higher than in the past. Something along the lines of how much you have to run and scramble on defense compared to the best. There is more short burts, sprints, explosive movements in today's game. That the physical demands are higher than in the past. Not exactly the same as physicality but nearby.

[Walker Wiggle]

Right, just like Larry Bird shot all those foul shots when Billl Laimbeer was "in his airspace", right? Laimbeer literally stuck his foot under jump shooters on purpose; Bird is on the record talking about this. Never mind a flagrant, it wasn't even called a foul back then.

[Moranis]

Reddick doesn't just say stuff. He strikes me as a genuine guy.

I've thought something somewhat similar actually. Parts of the game in the 80s and 90s were way more physical - hand-checking, for example. I also think it was much more acceptable to give hard fouls going to the rim, even though that didn't happen as often as we think it did.

But the modern game is physical in different ways. Players might not be getting leveled going to the rim, or getting pushed off their spots, but cutting off-ball is very different. Every little bump off-ball today is at full speed. If you watch the game in the 80s and 90s, the defense is a bit more passive and finesse off-ball, especially on screens. I also think the modern NBA does a really good job at contending at the rim, which means that players have to bounce off players at the rim and absorb contact. They aren't getting leveled, but they are absorbing a lot of contact.

They really are very different games. Parts were more physical and parts were less physical. Parts were harder and parts were easier.

I think that in the 1980s, there were less sophisticated defenses overall.  By the 1990s, though, you had physical defense plus sophisticated defenses. 

In 1986, the league average for scoring was 110.2 points per game.  By 1999 it was down to 91.6 ppg.  Since the removal of hand-checking in 2005, the average scoring has progressively increased from 97.2 points to 2021's 112.1.

that also correlates to the proliferation of the 3 point shot.  Perhaps they are connected, but perhaps not.

[SHAQATTACK]

Reddick doesn't just say stuff. He strikes me as a genuine guy.

I've thought something somewhat similar actually. Parts of the game in the 80s and 90s were way more physical - hand-checking, for example. I also think it was much more acceptable to give hard fouls going to the rim, even though that didn't happen as often as we think it did.

But the modern game is physical in different ways. Players might not be getting leveled going to the rim, or getting pushed off their spots, but cutting off-ball is very different. Every little bump off-ball today is at full speed. If you watch the game in the 80s and 90s, the defense is a bit more passive and finesse off-ball, especially on screens. I also think the modern NBA does a really good job at contending at the rim, which means that players have to bounce off players at the rim and absorb contact. They aren't getting leveled, but they are absorbing a lot of contact.

They really are very different games. Parts were more physical and parts were less physical. Parts were harder and parts were easier.

The Pistons say "Hi"...

I'm not saying there weren't teams that were more physical than others, but even watching Piston games, you can see that parts of the game are a bit more finesse than today's game, while parts are more physical than today's game.

I can just see Robert Parish beating Laimbeer into the ground in my mind...

And wasn't even called for a foul. 

Laimbeer's head was part of the ball!

 

No blood no foul . 

I watched basketball played by Dave Cowan’s , Wilt , and such .  Today’s mother’s would be horrified at the physical play or rather beatings those big centers and forward dished out game after game .  Guys hated each other . No hugging before the game .   

In the 1940’s my step father played center for a small NC prep college .  One certain game was very important he told me for making the tournament.  His team was out matched , mainly because of the opponents tall center . They had little hope of winning fairly.  My step father was Mean as they come when he was 20 .  The fights was what he lived for.  So…..LOL he knew he would be destroyed by the opposing center .  At the opening tip off ,  he said I never even jumped at the ball. The ball went up and he clocked the guy with a haymaker to the chin. Dropped him at center court  KO ‘d !  Both team emptied the bench and huge fight broke out .   He was was immediately tossed out of the game ,  the other center didn’t play , and my step fathers team lost the game anyway..  he was laughing as he told this . 

[liam]

Reddick doesn't just say stuff. He strikes me as a genuine guy.

I've thought something somewhat similar actually. Parts of the game in the 80s and 90s were way more physical - hand-checking, for example. I also think it was much more acceptable to give hard fouls going to the rim, even though that didn't happen as often as we think it did.

But the modern game is physical in different ways. Players might not be getting leveled going to the rim, or getting pushed off their spots, but cutting off-ball is very different. Every little bump off-ball today is at full speed. If you watch the game in the 80s and 90s, the defense is a bit more passive and finesse off-ball, especially on screens. I also think the modern NBA does a really good job at contending at the rim, which means that players have to bounce off players at the rim and absorb contact. They aren't getting leveled, but they are absorbing a lot of contact.

They really are very different games. Parts were more physical and parts were less physical. Parts were harder and parts were easier.

The Pistons say "Hi"...

I'm not saying there weren't teams that were more physical than others, but even watching Piston games, you can see that parts of the game are a bit more finesse than today's game, while parts are more physical than today's game.

I can just see Robert Parish beating Laimbeer into the ground in my mind...

And wasn't even called for a foul. 

Laimbeer's head was part of the ball!

 

No blood no foul . 

I watched basketball played by Dave Cowan’s , Wilt , and such .  Today’s mother’s would be horrified at the physical play or rather beatings those big centers and forward dished out game after game .  Guys hated each other . No hugging before the game .   

In the 1940’s my step father played center for a small NC prep college .  One certain game was very important he told me for making the tournament.  His team was out matched , mainly because of the opponents tall center . They had little hope of winning fairly.  My step father was Mean as they come when he was 20 .  The fights was what he lived for.  So…..LOL he knew he would be destroyed by the opposing center .  At the opening tip off ,  he said I never even jumped at the ball. The ball went up and he clocked the guy with a haymaker to the chin. Dropped him at center court  KO ‘d !  Both team emptied the bench and huge fight broke out .   He was was immediately tossed out of the game ,  the other center didn’t play , and my step fathers team lost the game anyway..  he was laughing as he told this .

Your Dad played the way I did. love it!

[Roy H.]

“JJ Redick, who’s a journeyman, played for six different teams, all his accolades came in college,” Cooper said during his “Showtime With Coop” podcast. “He played 15 years in the NBA, was being shifted around from team to team because all he could do was shoot, and he wasn’t that great of a shooter. He was a poor man’s Danny Ainge.

“In today’s NBA game, I don’t know what game he’s looking at, you can’t touch the guy. Anytime you touch the guy, a 3-point shooter, or come close to them when they’re landing, it’s a foul.

“… Larry Bird was one of the greatest shooters that ever played the game. (Expletive) percentages, it ain’t about that. It’s about hitting big shots. That guy, man.”
NESN 360 in-article asset

Cooper believes Redick just wanted the attention that comes with a hot take, but warned the attention he garners from such a blasphemous take may not be what Redick wants.

“JJ Redick needs to be quiet,” Cooper said. “I think he’s gotten out of this what he wants to — his name being thrown around, the attention and all that. You know what, the attention is something he’s not going to want. A lot of former players — myself, along with Dominique (Wilkins) — talk about this guy, who’s a poor man’s Jeff Hornacek.

“… That guy has no clue of how basketball was played in the ’80s and I guarantee you this, J.J. Redick. If you had played in the ’80s, I would’ve locked your ass up. You wouldn’t have got a shot off. You wouldn’t have got nothing off. You would have spent more time on the bench when I was on the floor. You couldn’t have played when I was on the court.”

[angryguy77]

Can someone drug test this clown?

[Donoghus]

Right now, Jeff Hornacek is somewhere like "what the hell did I do?"

[slamtheking]

“JJ Redick, who’s a journeyman, played for six different teams, all his accolades came in college,” Cooper said during his “Showtime With Coop” podcast. “He played 15 years in the NBA, was being shifted around from team to team because all he could do was shoot, and he wasn’t that great of a shooter. He was a poor man’s Danny Ainge.

“In today’s NBA game, I don’t know what game he’s looking at, you can’t touch the guy. Anytime you touch the guy, a 3-point shooter, or come close to them when they’re landing, it’s a foul.

“… Larry Bird was one of the greatest shooters that ever played the game. (Expletive) percentages, it ain’t about that. It’s about hitting big shots. That guy, man.”
NESN 360 in-article asset

Cooper believes Redick just wanted the attention that comes with a hot take, but warned the attention he garners from such a blasphemous take may not be what Redick wants.

“JJ Redick needs to be quiet,” Cooper said. “I think he’s gotten out of this what he wants to — his name being thrown around, the attention and all that. You know what, the attention is something he’s not going to want. A lot of former players — myself, along with Dominique (Wilkins) — talk about this guy, who’s a poor man’s Jeff Hornacek.

“… That guy has no clue of how basketball was played in the ’80s and I guarantee you this, J.J. Redick. If you had played in the ’80s, I would’ve locked your ass up. You wouldn’t have got a shot off. You wouldn’t have got nothing off. You would have spent more time on the bench when I was on the floor. You couldn’t have played when I was on the court.”

Cooper's not wrong about how he'd do against Redick.  he used to be the toughest defender of Bird.  Redick would be a walk in the park for him

[Roy H.]

Right now, Jeff Hornacek is somewhere like "what the hell did I do?"

Haha.  Yeah.  A lot of guys would kill for Hornacek's 1992 season.

[Big333223]

I agree with Redick. No one wants to hear it because it flies in the face of what all the old timers claim, many of whom are the ones with the mics shaping the narrative now but if you actually go watch the film, what Redick is saying is true: the NBA cleaned up the hard fouls and the fighting but the general gameplay is more physical now than it ever was.

I was born in '88, starting watching basketball around '00. I certainly have no experience playing basketball at a high level. I'm solely going on old film. Cue up a random game from the 80's and just look at how much daylight there is between a defender and a ballhandler on most possessions. Look at how easily screens get navigated.

To my eye, there is a lot more bumping and jostling off the ball now than there was in the 80's and early 90's.

The fact that so many of the older players calling out Redick go directly to the "he wasn't any good anyway" ad hominem says a lot.

[Yuckabuck33]

I agree with Redick. No one wants to hear it because it flies in the face of what all the old timers claim, many of whom are the ones with the mics shaping the narrative now but if you actually go watch the film, what Redick is saying is true: the NBA cleaned up the hard fouls and the fighting but the general gameplay is more physical now than it ever was.

I was born in '88, starting watching basketball around '00. I certainly have no experience playing basketball at a high level. I'm solely going on old film. Cue up a random game from the 80's and just look at how much daylight there is between a defender and a ballhandler on most possessions. Look at how easily screens get navigated.

To my eye, there is a lot more bumping and jostling off the ball now than there was in the 80's and early 90's.

The fact that so many of the older players calling out Redick go directly to the "he wasn't any good anyway" ad hominem says a lot.

Reddick wasn't saying that the NBA now is more physical than earlier eras. He's saying that, with the exception of hard fouls and fighting, the current NBA is just as physical as in past eras.