Author Topic: Most Overrated Athlete?  (Read 13794 times)

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Re: Most Overrated Athlete?
« Reply #15 on: February 21, 2023, 11:47:55 AM »

Offline greg683x

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Re: Most Overrated Athlete?
« Reply #16 on: February 21, 2023, 11:52:43 AM »

Online Moranis

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Wilt Chamberlain. It's completely laughable that modern day lists of the greatest basketball players in history put him above Russell. The folks watching basketball in the 1960s certainly didn't see it that way. The problem is that, these days it's a very individualistic era, and there is too much emphasis on individual play and not on how a player helps his team succeed. Hence the obsession with Chamberlain.
You mean the folks that voted Wilt as the 1st Team All NBA Center for 7 of the first 9 years in the 60's with Russell only getting the nod in 63 and 65. 
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Re: Most Overrated Athlete?
« Reply #17 on: February 21, 2023, 11:56:14 AM »

Offline jambr380

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Wilt Chamberlain. It's completely laughable that modern day lists of the greatest basketball players in history put him above Russell. The folks watching basketball in the 1960s certainly didn't see it that way. The problem is that, these days it's a very individualistic era, and there is too much emphasis on individual play and not on how a player helps his team succeed. Hence the obsession with Chamberlain.

I agree, but I do think some people are coming to realize that stats aren't always everything. We recently saw what happened with guys like Westbrook and Harden dominating all stat categories and how it didn't translate to winning.

I am hopeful that more people will realize what a force Russell actually was and perhaps this whole NBA season being about #6 will help with that.

Re: Most Overrated Athlete?
« Reply #18 on: February 21, 2023, 01:10:23 PM »

Offline kraidstar

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Wilt Chamberlain. It's completely laughable that modern day lists of the greatest basketball players in history put him above Russell. The folks watching basketball in the 1960s certainly didn't see it that way. The problem is that, these days it's a very individualistic era, and there is too much emphasis on individual play and not on how a player helps his team succeed. Hence the obsession with Chamberlain.
You mean the folks that voted Wilt as the 1st Team All NBA Center for 7 of the first 9 years in the 60's with Russell only getting the nod in 63 and 65.

I knew you'd come in to save the day

Re: Most Overrated Athlete?
« Reply #19 on: February 21, 2023, 01:14:07 PM »

Online Moranis

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Wilt Chamberlain. It's completely laughable that modern day lists of the greatest basketball players in history put him above Russell. The folks watching basketball in the 1960s certainly didn't see it that way. The problem is that, these days it's a very individualistic era, and there is too much emphasis on individual play and not on how a player helps his team succeed. Hence the obsession with Chamberlain.
You mean the folks that voted Wilt as the 1st Team All NBA Center for 7 of the first 9 years in the 60's with Russell only getting the nod in 63 and 65.

I knew you'd come in to save the day
I have no issue if someone says Bill was better than Wilt, but when you spout off nonsense about how the players were viewed at the time, I will correct that.  The media of the time period, thought Wilt was better than Bill basically the entire time they overlapped in their careers.  To me, that says more than anything we can argue about now.
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Re: Most Overrated Athlete?
« Reply #20 on: February 21, 2023, 01:19:07 PM »

Offline Ed Monix

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I watch a lot of YouTube and Mike Tyson is someone who gets views because of his image and ruthlessness. The casual young sports fan view Tyson as a GOAT candidate, but in reality he’s a tier below.

Just curious who others on the forum would view as some of the most overrated athletes in history?

Mostly QBs and ball dominant point guards who can’t defend. Joe Namath, Tony Romo, Troy Aikman, Trae Young, Ja Morant.

Not saying they aren’t good, but the QBs are overrated and in 4 years, when they aren’t young anymore, the basketball players may not be such hot commodities, though they are both all stars.

I completely agree.

Many are style over substance, flash over results.

Allen Iverson & Pete Maravich are two that come to mind.
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Re: Most Overrated Athlete?
« Reply #21 on: February 21, 2023, 01:38:53 PM »

Online Moranis

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To be overrated you have to actually define what a person's rating is.  I think very few people are overrated.  The one that most often comes to mind for me is Kobe.  Far too many people think he is a top 10 all time player, and that just seems strange to me.  I think he is closer to not being a top 20 player than he is at being a top 10 player.  That makes him overrated to me.

I also think a lot of people claim someone is overrated when they are overhyped or otherwise get a disproportionate amount of coverage.  Someone like Ben Simmons comes to mind in that regard, i.e. a guy who gets (or at least did) more media coverage than his skill set would dictate, but I do think he has always been rated or ranked about where he should have been.
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Re: Most Overrated Athlete?
« Reply #22 on: February 21, 2023, 01:44:10 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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Ben Simmons is actually a great example of someone that became overrated once it became clear he was no longer developing. Including my many on this forum. The 76ers were actually the most overrated players in the league on this forum including okafor, nerlens Noel and saric. I really wish I could find the post where someone said saric would average 20-8-5 on his own team. Those were some dark days for the forum from a few, ironically almost all the guys outside Embid that were hyped are basically out or on their way out of league. Noel is 28 and doesn’t even play.

Re: Most Overrated Athlete?
« Reply #23 on: February 21, 2023, 01:50:34 PM »

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Ben Simmons. Joe Namath. Tony Romo.

Probably not a popular opinion but I also think Odell Beckham Jr. is overrated too. He's great, but I swear his whole reputation comes from that single catch, which was impressive but if it weren't for that I don't think OBJ would be considered in the absolute upper echelon of WR talent in the past 10-15 years. And he won a SB with an already-stacked Rams team and he barely even played the SB due to ACL
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Re: Most Overrated Athlete?
« Reply #24 on: February 21, 2023, 02:06:11 PM »

Offline kraidstar

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Nikola Jokic - a Larry Bird-level offensive genius, but his severe defensive deficiencies will doom his team in the playoffs

Anyone on the 90's Knicks

Vince Carter - Pierce was better!

Kobe - great player, but LA, Shaq, the Gasol theft, and David Stern boosted his legacy far above what it should be.

Damien Lillard

Allen Iverson

Westbrook - (I was beating this drum way before it became popular to do so)

Kevin Durant - take away those Warrior freebie titles and has any supposed all-time-level player had such an underwhelming postseason career?

James Harden - the refs have as much to do with his superstar status as he does

Giannis - ditto. He literally cheats with his constant uncalled charges. Tatum and Brown would get 35+ a night if they were allowed to do that.

The San Diego Chargers - from the Marty Shottenheimer era on, this team has found increasinly imaginative ways to lose big games. The media weirdly doesn't seem to notice this and call them out on it.

Drew Brees  - major playoff choker

Aaron Rodgers - ditto

Cam Newton

Emmitt Smith, and pretty much any post-80's RB

Brett Favre - great player, but the media infatuation with him was cult-like

Eli Manning - Roy lays it out nicely above

Matt Ryan - I didn't like him in college and was flabbergasted by his supposed elite NFL status

Matthew Stafford - I don't care that he won a title.  Anyone would have with that roster. He sucks.

Odell Beckham

Justin Verlander - he finally got a ring, but he should have more considering some of the teans he's been on

Roy Halladay - loads of talent and a HOF career, but I never feared him in a big game

Ichiro Suzuki - amazing hitting average and defense, but that .757 career OPS underwhelms.

Clayton Kershaw - all arm, no heart

A-Rod - all mouth, no heart

Manny Ramirez - take away the roids and was he actually even a good baseball player?

Mark McGuire and Sammy Sosa - their legacies are already destroyed, but they deserve mention for that fraudulent homerun chase in the 90's. It was obvious even then they were juicing but the media ignored that aspect for the ratings frenzy of a home run chase.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2023, 02:20:12 PM by kraidstar »

Re: Most Overrated Athlete?
« Reply #25 on: February 21, 2023, 02:23:51 PM »

Offline kraidstar

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Wilt Chamberlain. It's completely laughable that modern day lists of the greatest basketball players in history put him above Russell. The folks watching basketball in the 1960s certainly didn't see it that way. The problem is that, these days it's a very individualistic era, and there is too much emphasis on individual play and not on how a player helps his team succeed. Hence the obsession with Chamberlain.
You mean the folks that voted Wilt as the 1st Team All NBA Center for 7 of the first 9 years in the 60's with Russell only getting the nod in 63 and 65.

I knew you'd come in to save the day
I have no issue if someone says Bill was better than Wilt, but when you spout off nonsense about how the players were viewed at the time, I will correct that.  The media of the time period, thought Wilt was better than Bill basically the entire time they overlapped in their careers.  To me, that says more than anything we can argue about now.

I don't particularly trust the media's evaluation of players. Look at the way they have elevated Kobe.

Re: Most Overrated Athlete?
« Reply #26 on: February 21, 2023, 02:34:46 PM »

Online Moranis

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Wilt Chamberlain. It's completely laughable that modern day lists of the greatest basketball players in history put him above Russell. The folks watching basketball in the 1960s certainly didn't see it that way. The problem is that, these days it's a very individualistic era, and there is too much emphasis on individual play and not on how a player helps his team succeed. Hence the obsession with Chamberlain.
You mean the folks that voted Wilt as the 1st Team All NBA Center for 7 of the first 9 years in the 60's with Russell only getting the nod in 63 and 65.

I knew you'd come in to save the day
I have no issue if someone says Bill was better than Wilt, but when you spout off nonsense about how the players were viewed at the time, I will correct that.  The media of the time period, thought Wilt was better than Bill basically the entire time they overlapped in their careers.  To me, that says more than anything we can argue about now.

I don't particularly trust the media's evaluation of players. Look at the way they have elevated Kobe.
Sure, but the bold is what I was responding to.  That just isn't a true statement.  The folks watching in the 60's (and watching more than the normal fan) consistently voted Wilt ahead of Bill.  That is the exact opposite of that bolded statement.
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Re: Most Overrated Athlete?
« Reply #27 on: February 21, 2023, 02:37:55 PM »

Online rocknrollforyoursoul

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I watch a lot of YouTube and Mike Tyson is someone who gets views because of his image and ruthlessness. The casual young sports fan view Tyson as a GOAT candidate, but in reality he’s a tier below.

Just curious who others on the forum would view as some of the most overrated athletes in history?

Yeah, I won't put Tyson here.  He disposed of Marvis Frazier in 30 seconds and Marvis was projected to be a rising star and future champion.  I suggest people go back and look at his early bouts, completely a beast.

As for overrated, three that immediately jump to the top of my list are Dale Jr, Tony Romo, Kurt Warner.  I'm sure I can come up with others but want some time to think about it.

Kurt Warner is a tough case.  He's sort of like Bill Walton in terms of his career.  Two MVPs, three SB appearances, and a bunch of shortened seasons.  There's always the question of "if this guy stayed healthy, what would he have done?"

I'm okay with him being recognized as a Hall of Famer. 

A guy I think that was overrated was Eli Manning.  He's got the two SB titles, which are big, but otherwise I think he was way too sloppy with the ball to be considered a great QB, particularly in light of a career .500 record.  He's actually got more INTs + fumbles than he does TD passes, and he only won a playoff game in two out of 16 seasons.  It's just that in those two seasons, he won eight playoff games.

Eli benefitted from two ridiculous catches that might never be duplicated. I realize that many of the Brady-Pats titles hinged on one or two plays, but Brady (obviously) acquitted himself for many years, whereas Eli was just ... meh.

My votes for overrated athletes:

  • Chris Paul: hasn't won a dang thing
  • James Harden: ditto
  • LeBron James: 10 NBA Finals trips but only 4 titles, and an overall Finals games record of 22-33. Greatest of all time? I don't think so.
  • Nikola Jokic: Maybe I just have bad timing, but just about every time I see him play, he doesn't do all that well. And as Kraidstar points out, the comparisons with Bird start and end with offense, as Jokic's defense is nowhere near Bird's.
  • Russell Westbrook: He's the “empty calories” of the NBA world—great numbers that leave you wanting more.

I also want to say that I don't think Tyson was overrated—when his weird head was in the game, he pretty much destroyed everyone he faced.

I also don't think Warner is overrated, he just got a late start and then had (I think) some injuries late in his career. He was incredible in his prime.
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Re: Most Overrated Athlete?
« Reply #28 on: February 21, 2023, 03:05:59 PM »

Offline kraidstar

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Wilt Chamberlain. It's completely laughable that modern day lists of the greatest basketball players in history put him above Russell. The folks watching basketball in the 1960s certainly didn't see it that way. The problem is that, these days it's a very individualistic era, and there is too much emphasis on individual play and not on how a player helps his team succeed. Hence the obsession with Chamberlain.
You mean the folks that voted Wilt as the 1st Team All NBA Center for 7 of the first 9 years in the 60's with Russell only getting the nod in 63 and 65.

I knew you'd come in to save the day
I have no issue if someone says Bill was better than Wilt, but when you spout off nonsense about how the players were viewed at the time, I will correct that.  The media of the time period, thought Wilt was better than Bill basically the entire time they overlapped in their careers.  To me, that says more than anything we can argue about now.

I don't particularly trust the media's evaluation of players. Look at the way they have elevated Kobe.
Sure, but the bold is what I was responding to.  That just isn't a true statement.  The folks watching in the 60's (and watching more than the normal fan) consistently voted Wilt ahead of Bill.  That is the exact opposite of that bolded statement.

Fair enough. I do think that matters to a degree. I also think a retrospective look at their achievements/ stats as part of a team/organization is important.

Tim Duncan comes to mind as Russell-like figure whose team contributions outweigh his stats and contemporary accolades.

IMO the two most important abilities in the game are defending the rim and being able to score against the very toughest defenses in key moments. There are tons of stats that track offense, but not many for D.

Both are essential to win championships, but there is more bias for the guys who put up numbers, which inherently skew towards offense.

Re: Most Overrated Athlete?
« Reply #29 on: February 21, 2023, 03:57:02 PM »

Offline tazzmaniac

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Namath was definitely the first one that came to mind.

You can probably point to a handful of QBs that are overrated simply because of a Super Bowl ring (or rings) but Namath would definitely be at the top.
Is Namath really "most overrated"?  I don't see his name ever come up in discussions on great NFL QBs.