Author Topic: MVP Race  (Read 3358 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Re: MVP Race
« Reply #45 on: February 17, 2023, 05:44:54 PM »

Online celticsclay

  • Reggie Lewis
  • ***************
  • Posts: 15911
  • Tommy Points: 1394
I think it will be awesome when Jokic wins his third straight MVP and then the Nuggets fail to reach the NBA Finals yet again.

Without Jokic the Nuggets would never have even made the playoffs. I find this silly remarks.

Is Lillard a garbage player because in his whole career he only won four playoff series?

Yeah I really don’t get the need people have to want to try and take jokic down a peg. There was a good article on deadspin about him not having any all star teammates, or really anyone that was even under serious consideration. Meanwhile Boston, Bucks, clippers, 76ers etc all have at least two all stars or one that had serious consideration/made it last year. Even Dallas has two now.
The Nuggets have good players.  You could swap out plenty of players for Jokic and the Nuggets would still be good in the regular season and a few might even make them better in the playoffs. 
Giannis, Embiid and Tatum are all much better defenders than Jokic but that doesn't seem to carry any weight in regards to MVP voting.  I may be misremembering but didn't Jokic get "benched" in a playoff game? 

In 2017/18, Embiid in his first full season of play led a Sixers team to a 52-win season where the rest of their starters were Simmons (1st season), Saric (2nd season), Covington and Redick.  They even made it to the 2nd round of the playoffs.  The Grizzlies won 56 games last season.  Morant was their only star and they arguably played a bit better without Morant on the court.  Atlanta with Millsap, Horford and Teague in 2015-16 won 60 games.  If I paid more attention to the NBA, I expect I'd be able to spout of lots of other examples of the top of my head.  You don't need multiple all-stars to win 50+ games in the NBA.  You don't even need a single all-star. 

If folks want to say Jokic should still be leading MVP voting that's fine but he shouldn't be dominating the voting.

Few notes from the article:
In fact, among the top seeds in the East and West, Denver is the only top-3 seed from either conference without a pair of 2023 All-Stars inside its locker room. Boston’s offense is carried by Jaylen Brown and Jayson Tatum on its wings.

If Denver finishes the 82-game schedule as the No. 1 seed, they’d be the first one in the Western Conference without multiple All-Stars since the 2014 San Antonio Spurs won their final title of the Duncan era

Objectively this is very unusual. I get you are an Embid guy, and I like Embid too (think it was closer last year or the year before). But these are facts. Rare to see a top seed with one all star, let alone nobody else on the team that has made one (excluding deandre Jordan’s corpse)
Last season, Denver finished 6th in the West.  16 games behind the Suns.  So what's the justification for Jokic winning last season? 

Unless I'm missing something, Houston finished 1st in the West in 2017/18 and Harden was their only all-star.  Miami finished 1st in the East last season with Butler as their only all-star.  Celts finished 1st in 2016/17 with IT4 as their only all-star.  Cleveland finished 1st in 2015/16 with Lebron as their only all-star.  So not that unusual. 

Jamal Murray may not be an all-star but his season is worthy of all-star consideration.  Porter and Gordon are having good seasons too.  Jokic isn't carrying a lot of dead weight.  Someone posted they wouldn't make the playoffs without Jokic which is nonsense.

Your fandom of Embid is making you say something pretty silly here. The nuggets have zero shot of making the playoffs if they are starting murray, Brown, Porter, kcp and deandre jordan the first 50 games of the season with a bench of ish smith, cancar, hyland and Jeff green. (Murray and Porter also both missed times)That’s probably the dumbest thing you have said, which I mean as a half compliment. But that team is definitely lottery bound. Maybe take calling that nonsense back?

Re: MVP Race
« Reply #46 on: February 17, 2023, 05:51:24 PM »

Online Who

  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 47512
  • Tommy Points: 2404
I remember when D-Rose won the MVP and a journalist talked about he decided who he voted for: he said he picked the player that he wrote the most articles about. That said player was the story of the season and that is why he voted for D-Rose.

Other journalists thought that reasoning sounded fine.

Re: MVP Race
« Reply #47 on: February 17, 2023, 05:58:19 PM »

Offline rocknrollforyoursoul

  • Satch Sanders
  • *********
  • Posts: 9702
  • Tommy Points: 325
I remember when D-Rose won the MVP and a journalist talked about he decided who he voted for: he said he picked the player that he wrote the most articles about. That said player was the story of the season and that is why he voted for D-Rose.

Other journalists thought that reasoning sounded fine.

I used to work at the Los Angeles Newspaper Group with a reporter who was still able to vote for the MLB Hall of Fame despite the fact that it had been years since he'd covered MLB. I really have very little respect for the MVP voting process in any of the major sports, given that they have virtually nothing in the way of guidelines, rules, etc., and that people who are no longer "connected" still get to vote. It's very much based on which players are "fashionable" at the time, so we already know, before a season even starts, the five or so players who have any legit shot at winning MVP. It comes down to whom the media loves, and right now they love Jokic most.

One really fascinating exercise is to go to FanGraphs or Baseball Reference and look through all of the voting results for MLB MVP and compare that to the WAR of the various vote recipients; what you'll see is that there have been MANY seasons when the MVP did not have the highest WAR — in fact, sometimes the person with the highest WAR didn't even finish in the top 5! Which is absurd. I get that WAR wasn't a thing until fairly recently, but it just goes to show that MVP voting often comes down to personal preferences based on numerous highly subjective criteria.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2023, 06:05:30 PM by rocknrollforyoursoul »
"There are two kinds of people: those who say to God, 'Thy will be done,' and those to whom God says, 'All right, then, have it your way.'"

"You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body."

— C.S. Lewis

Re: MVP Race
« Reply #48 on: February 17, 2023, 06:32:28 PM »

Online celticsclay

  • Reggie Lewis
  • ***************
  • Posts: 15911
  • Tommy Points: 1394
I definitely agree the voting for all this stuff across sports is very flawed. In fact a sportswriter can say they value on off, team success, caliber of teammates, defense, offense etc and nobody can really complain about it. That is why arguing for one of the few things they can’t do like say “I voted because of how this player performed in 4 playoffs games last year in on off” a particularly silly argument. Literally one of the only concrete things about the mvp vote is it is for regular season performance. And as Moranis inadvertently pointed out this is part of the reasons jordan didn’t get more mvps (along with the clear voter fatigue we see in all sports)