Author Topic: 2023 Official NBA Trade Deadline/Buyout Thread  (Read 30465 times)

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Re: 2023 Official NBA Trade Deadline/Buyout Thread
« Reply #480 on: February 14, 2023, 10:17:01 AM »

Offline Celtics2021

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If I am seeing the latest information, it appears that Stanley Johnson has been placed on waivers.  I think he has a minimum salary.  Why couldn't we just claim him off waivers?  If we want him, claiming him would take out the uncertainty of the Lakers or someone else getting him.  I usually don't understand all the nuances of the rules but does it make any difference in terms of what we would pay him?  Or our cap/tax impact?

It would impact what the Celtics owed to the tax, because his cap hit would be for the full-season (or from whenever he signed with the Spurs), rather than the final third of the season, so about $5 million extra in tax dollars.  Also, you rarely see teams put in waiver claims on buyouts, because you don’t want to add someone who doesn’t want to be there.

Re: 2023 Official NBA Trade Deadline/Buyout Thread
« Reply #481 on: February 14, 2023, 10:41:06 AM »

Online Goldstar88

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If I am seeing the latest information, it appears that Stanley Johnson has been placed on waivers.  I think he has a minimum salary.  Why couldn't we just claim him off waivers?  If we want him, claiming him would take out the uncertainty of the Lakers or someone else getting him.  I usually don't understand all the nuances of the rules but does it make any difference in terms of what we would pay him?  Or our cap/tax impact?

It would impact what the Celtics owed to the tax, because his cap hit would be for the full-season (or from whenever he signed with the Spurs), rather than the final third of the season, so about $5 million extra in tax dollars.  Also, you rarely see teams put in waiver claims on buyouts, because you don’t want to add someone who doesn’t want to be there.

But Wyc said there’s no budget for this year. Brad has the green light to spend.  :laugh:

Also, I can understand some vets not being interested in joining the C’s due to limited playing time and potential DNP’s, but we are talking about Stanley Johnson here.
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Re: 2023 Official NBA Trade Deadline/Buyout Thread
« Reply #482 on: February 14, 2023, 10:42:34 AM »

Online Vermont Green

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If I am seeing the latest information, it appears that Stanley Johnson has been placed on waivers.  I think he has a minimum salary.  Why couldn't we just claim him off waivers?  If we want him, claiming him would take out the uncertainty of the Lakers or someone else getting him.  I usually don't understand all the nuances of the rules but does it make any difference in terms of what we would pay him?  Or our cap/tax impact?

It would impact what the Celtics owed to the tax, because his cap hit would be for the full-season (or from whenever he signed with the Spurs), rather than the final third of the season, so about $5 million extra in tax dollars.  Also, you rarely see teams put in waiver claims on buyouts, because you don’t want to add someone who doesn’t want to be there.

Yeah, I get the "don't want to be there" part but his contract with SAN is $1.67M.  I believe he signed a "rest of the season" contract in December after being cut from the Jazz.  So he is already working off 2 contracts according to Spotrac career earnings ($2.35M by Utah and $1.67M by SAN).

I guess it is more favorable for him if he is paid in full by SAN and then signs another contract.  But for the Celtics, it seems like the difference between $1.67M plus tax and what, $1.1M plus tax or something?  I don't think that amount of money is going to drive the decision if Johnson is the guy they want.

Maybe the Celtics are confident in Tony Snell and Stanley Johnson is not a high priority.  But if Johnson is who they want, I say claim him.  It is no different than being traded.  It is something he would just have to accept.  It is not like it is the worst thing in the world to get sent to the Boston Celtics, at team he could potentially stick with for a while.


Re: 2023 Official NBA Trade Deadline/Buyout Thread
« Reply #483 on: February 14, 2023, 10:50:38 AM »

Offline Celtics2021

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If I am seeing the latest information, it appears that Stanley Johnson has been placed on waivers.  I think he has a minimum salary.  Why couldn't we just claim him off waivers?  If we want him, claiming him would take out the uncertainty of the Lakers or someone else getting him.  I usually don't understand all the nuances of the rules but does it make any difference in terms of what we would pay him?  Or our cap/tax impact?

It would impact what the Celtics owed to the tax, because his cap hit would be for the full-season (or from whenever he signed with the Spurs), rather than the final third of the season, so about $5 million extra in tax dollars.  Also, you rarely see teams put in waiver claims on buyouts, because you don’t want to add someone who doesn’t want to be there.

But Wyc said there’s no budget for this year. Brad has the green light to spend.  :laugh:

Also, I can understand some vets not being interested in joining the C’s due to limited playing time and potential DNP’s, but we are talking about Stanley Johnson here.

But here's the thing: the Celtics have the lowest waiver priority. If you know Stanley Johnson would like to be here, you just sign him when he clears waivers for the minimum and save the money, because if someone else puts in a waiver claim, you weren't going to get him anyway because their waiver claim is higher.  And if Johnson doesn't want to be here, why would you claim him?

Mostly I think the Celtics will wait to see what happens with Will Barton, because he's the best player who might shake loose.  Barton is the only buyout guy who conceivably could play his way in front of Hauser and Pritchard and get some rotation wing minutes, and that's worth waiting on at the expense of other players who are only going to see mop-up time, which is the case with Johnson.

Re: 2023 Official NBA Trade Deadline/Buyout Thread
« Reply #484 on: February 14, 2023, 11:02:33 AM »

Online Vermont Green

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If I am seeing the latest information, it appears that Stanley Johnson has been placed on waivers.  I think he has a minimum salary.  Why couldn't we just claim him off waivers?  If we want him, claiming him would take out the uncertainty of the Lakers or someone else getting him.  I usually don't understand all the nuances of the rules but does it make any difference in terms of what we would pay him?  Or our cap/tax impact?

It would impact what the Celtics owed to the tax, because his cap hit would be for the full-season (or from whenever he signed with the Spurs), rather than the final third of the season, so about $5 million extra in tax dollars.  Also, you rarely see teams put in waiver claims on buyouts, because you don’t want to add someone who doesn’t want to be there.

But Wyc said there’s no budget for this year. Brad has the green light to spend.  :laugh:

Also, I can understand some vets not being interested in joining the C’s due to limited playing time and potential DNP’s, but we are talking about Stanley Johnson here.

But here's the thing: the Celtics have the lowest waiver priority. If you know Stanley Johnson would like to be here, you just sign him when he clears waivers for the minimum and save the money, because if someone else puts in a waiver claim, you weren't going to get him anyway because their waiver claim is higher.  And if Johnson doesn't want to be here, why would you claim him?

Mostly I think the Celtics will wait to see what happens with Will Barton, because he's the best player who might shake loose.  Barton is the only buyout guy who conceivably could play his way in front of Hauser and Pritchard and get some rotation wing minutes, and that's worth waiting on at the expense of other players who are only going to see mop-up time, which is the case with Johnson.

I am not necessarily disagreeing (and appreciate the discussion), but my point is predicated on the Celtics having decided that Stanley Johnson is the guy they want.  If they prefer Will Barton or Snell, then of course they are not going to claim Johnson.  Barton in some ways may be the better player but I am not so sure he is a better fit for what the Celtics need.  Barton is an undersized chucker who really is a liability on Defense (based on his recent advanced stats).  But he may well be who the Celtics are targeting.

But to your point about the Celtics having the lowest claim priority, if someone else claims him, say the Lakers, so be it.  What is lost?  That means he isn't going to be released and there is no chance to sign him otherwise.  There is nothing lost by the Celtics submitting a claim.  If he ends up on the Lakers, oh well, you tried.  So you move on to the next guy.

Re: 2023 Official NBA Trade Deadline/Buyout Thread
« Reply #485 on: February 14, 2023, 11:55:11 AM »

Online Vermont Green

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An update regarding Stanley Johnson and the Lakers:

Quote
Based on the literal interpretation of the CBA, the Lakers would not be able to sign Stanley Johnson because they traded him during this league year to the Utah Jazz. There is a reacquiring rule in the CBA that keeps teams from trading players only and then re-signing them if the new team swiftly waives them.

The confusion with Johnson’s situation stems from the fact that he had an in-between stint with the Spurs. He was traded to the Jazz, waived weeks later, then eventually signed with the Spurs. San Antonio being an in-between stop seemingly canceled out this re-acquiring rule.

However, that may not be the case. The rule essentially states that if the Jazz were to trade Johnson to the Spurs then the Lakers would no longer be the last team to trade him during the league year. Thus, the re-acquire rule would apply to Utah, not Los Angeles.

I read that the Lakers were a likely destination for him.  But if the Lakers are off the table, it improves the odds for the Celtics, waiver claim or otherwise.

It is funny, I went from not even giving Johnson a thought to actually kind of hoping he is the guy they get.  These vet retread rentals in their 30s generally don't end up helping much, you never know.  Johnson may not help much either but is a young enough player that he could actually catch on and stick around a couple of seasons.

Re: 2023 Official NBA Trade Deadline/Buyout Thread
« Reply #486 on: February 14, 2023, 12:20:46 PM »

Online Roy H.

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An update regarding Stanley Johnson and the Lakers:

Quote
Based on the literal interpretation of the CBA, the Lakers would not be able to sign Stanley Johnson because they traded him during this league year to the Utah Jazz. There is a reacquiring rule in the CBA that keeps teams from trading players only and then re-signing them if the new team swiftly waives them.

The confusion with Johnson’s situation stems from the fact that he had an in-between stint with the Spurs. He was traded to the Jazz, waived weeks later, then eventually signed with the Spurs. San Antonio being an in-between stop seemingly canceled out this re-acquiring rule.

However, that may not be the case. The rule essentially states that if the Jazz were to trade Johnson to the Spurs then the Lakers would no longer be the last team to trade him during the league year. Thus, the re-acquire rule would apply to Utah, not Los Angeles.

I read that the Lakers were a likely destination for him.  But if the Lakers are off the table, it improves the odds for the Celtics, waiver claim or otherwise.

It is funny, I went from not even giving Johnson a thought to actually kind of hoping he is the guy they get.  These vet retread rentals in their 30s generally don't end up helping much, you never know.  Johnson may not help much either but is a young enough player that he could actually catch on and stick around a couple of seasons.

Here's what Larry Coon says on the subject:

Quote
A team cannot reacquire a player it traded away during the same season (a season for this purpose being defined as starting on the first day of the regular season and ending on the last day of the Finals). If the player was traded between seasons (i.e., from the first day after the Finals to the last day prior to the start of the next regular season), it cannot reacquire the player prior to the end of the next season. If he is waived by his new team, then he cannot re-sign with his original team until the one-year anniversary of the trade, or until the July 1 following the end of his contract, whichever comes first6. However, if a team trades a player's draft rights, it can reacquire the player during the same season.

Interestingly, a player can be traded to a third team, waived by the third team, and be eligible to re-sign with his original team before the waiting period expires. While this has not happened in practice, the league clarified its interpretation of this rule in 2017, in regard to a possible instance with Andrew Bogut.


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Re: 2023 Official NBA Trade Deadline/Buyout Thread
« Reply #487 on: February 14, 2023, 01:18:23 PM »

Online Vermont Green

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An update regarding Stanley Johnson and the Lakers:

Quote
Based on the literal interpretation of the CBA, the Lakers would not be able to sign Stanley Johnson because they traded him during this league year to the Utah Jazz. There is a reacquiring rule in the CBA that keeps teams from trading players only and then re-signing them if the new team swiftly waives them.

The confusion with Johnson’s situation stems from the fact that he had an in-between stint with the Spurs. He was traded to the Jazz, waived weeks later, then eventually signed with the Spurs. San Antonio being an in-between stop seemingly canceled out this re-acquiring rule.

However, that may not be the case. The rule essentially states that if the Jazz were to trade Johnson to the Spurs then the Lakers would no longer be the last team to trade him during the league year. Thus, the re-acquire rule would apply to Utah, not Los Angeles.

I read that the Lakers were a likely destination for him.  But if the Lakers are off the table, it improves the odds for the Celtics, waiver claim or otherwise.

It is funny, I went from not even giving Johnson a thought to actually kind of hoping he is the guy they get.  These vet retread rentals in their 30s generally don't end up helping much, you never know.  Johnson may not help much either but is a young enough player that he could actually catch on and stick around a couple of seasons.

Here's what Larry Coon says on the subject:

Quote
A team cannot reacquire a player it traded away during the same season (a season for this purpose being defined as starting on the first day of the regular season and ending on the last day of the Finals). If the player was traded between seasons (i.e., from the first day after the Finals to the last day prior to the start of the next regular season), it cannot reacquire the player prior to the end of the next season. If he is waived by his new team, then he cannot re-sign with his original team until the one-year anniversary of the trade, or until the July 1 following the end of his contract, whichever comes first6. However, if a team trades a player's draft rights, it can reacquire the player during the same season.

Interestingly, a player can be traded to a third team, waived by the third team, and be eligible to re-sign with his original team before the waiting period expires. While this has not happened in practice, the league clarified its interpretation of this rule in 2017, in regard to a possible instance with Andrew Bogut.

The CBA is clear that a team cannot reacquire a player if waived by the team the player was traded to.  In this case, LAL cannot reacquire Johnson after Utah waives him.  It specifically says that if Utah had TRADED Johnson to SAS, and SAS waived him, then the restriction is lifted and LAL could reacquire him.  But it does not specifically say that the restriction is lifted if Utah waives him and another team (SAS) signs him, which is what happened.

I read other comments by Coon on this and his take was that this was likely not the intent.  That the intent was that if a player goes to a 3rd team, either by trade or signing, that the restriction should be lifted, that the loop hole would be addressed.  But as it stands, this is not what the CBA says.  The CBA says that if Utah waives/releases Johnson, then the Lakers cannot reacquire him for a year/season.  And Utah waived him.

Looks like one less team to compete with for Johnson although this probably makes it more likely that LAL would want to push hard for Barton but they can't offer any money, just the bright lights of LA.

Re: 2023 Official NBA Trade Deadline/Buyout Thread
« Reply #488 on: February 14, 2023, 04:27:52 PM »

Offline BMark

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Perfect time to start looking at young players on 10 day contracts. 

Re: 2023 Official NBA Trade Deadline/Buyout Thread
« Reply #489 on: February 14, 2023, 04:34:46 PM »

Offline BMark

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One thing that Miami/Riley does extremely well is to identify the potential of undrafted players.  I am amazed at how many undrafted Heat players have success at the NBA level.

Stevens has proven to be just as savvy as Riley in identifying talent.  Pretty soon the Cs will not be able to afford to bring in established players so this would be the time to develop younger players.  I would immediately dump Valentine, Snell from the Maine Celtics and offer roles to undrafted players who look as though they may be able to shoot and defend at the NBA level.

Re: 2023 Official NBA Trade Deadline/Buyout Thread
« Reply #490 on: February 14, 2023, 06:16:10 PM »

Offline Who

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I like Snell more than Barton or Stanley Johnson. Snell is a two way player. The other two are not.

Anyway, I see all 3 as a 3rd string forward behind Hauser & G Williams.

Re: 2023 Official NBA Trade Deadline/Buyout Thread
« Reply #491 on: February 14, 2023, 06:39:19 PM »

Offline Phantom255x

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The longer this goes the more I think we do nothing and just call up Snell
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Re: 2023 Official NBA Trade Deadline/Buyout Thread
« Reply #492 on: February 15, 2023, 01:43:46 PM »

Offline gouki88

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The longer this goes the more I think we do nothing and just call up Snell
I’m perfectly fine with that. I don’t think we have the offer of playing time to persuade bigger names (Barton types)
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Re: 2023 Official NBA Trade Deadline/Buyout Thread
« Reply #493 on: February 15, 2023, 01:50:02 PM »

Offline Celtics2021

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The longer this goes the more I think we do nothing and just call up Snell
I’m perfectly fine with that. I don’t think we have the offer of playing time to persuade bigger names (Barton types)

It's not like Barton has even been released yet.  Seems like he and the Wizards are haggling over money.

Re: 2023 Official NBA Trade Deadline/Buyout Thread
« Reply #494 on: February 15, 2023, 01:57:00 PM »

Online Roy H.

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The longer this goes the more I think we do nothing and just call up Snell
I’m perfectly fine with that. I don’t think we have the offer of playing time to persuade bigger names (Barton types)

I think we have the offer of money, though.  If my math is close, we can offer $3.24 million, while other teams can offer around $550k.


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