Author Topic: Renewed / regurgitated Poeltl rumor  (Read 4167 times)

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Re: Renewed / regurgitated Poeltl rumor
« Reply #30 on: January 18, 2023, 10:16:36 AM »

Offline wdleehi

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Also, Derrick White is better.

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Next season, Gallinari may be better than Poeltl.

A better / potentially better fit on our team, I won't argue with.

But objectively better?  I think Poeltl offers a lot that he's not getting credit for.  Despite only playing 26 minutes per night (20th), among centers he's 14th in scoring, 13th in rebounding, 8th in assists, 8th in steals, 12th in blocks, 13th in FTA, and 4th in FG%.

He's arguably a top-10 center, and unquestionably top-15.  I wouldn't want to start him next to Timelord, but if the long-term plan is to have Grant replace Horford, then having an above-average center in tandem with Timelord would give us 48 minutes of very good center play.

But, I can't imagine that Gallo + Pritchard + two #2s gets it done.

I just get stuck at how much time is he going to get on the Celtics.   I don't see him taking Grant Williams minutes because he can't really play that role.   He is taking the Kornet role.   


At this point, I am more interested in keeping that trade package for an emergency.   If there is an actual injury that is going to eat most of the season that the Celtics need help overcoming.   

Re: Renewed / regurgitated Poeltl rumor
« Reply #31 on: January 18, 2023, 10:17:50 AM »

Online Celtics2021

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Also, Derrick White is better.

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Next season, Gallinari may be better than Poeltl.

A better / potentially better fit on our team, I won't argue with.

But objectively better?  I think Poeltl offers a lot that he's not getting credit for.  Despite only playing 26 minutes per night (20th), among centers he's 14th in scoring, 13th in rebounding, 8th in assists, 8th in steals, 12th in blocks, 13th in FTA, and 4th in FG%.

He's arguably a top-10 center, and unquestionably top-15.  I wouldn't want to start him next to Timelord, but if the long-term plan is to have Grant replace Horford, then having an above-average center in tandem with Timelord would give us 48 minutes of very good center play.

But, I can't imagine that Gallo + Pritchard + two #2s gets it done.

Derrick White is better because the game is moving away from players like Poeltl and towards players like White, and has been for sometime.  In a different era, my statement might not have been true.

Re: Renewed / regurgitated Poeltl rumor
« Reply #32 on: January 18, 2023, 10:19:43 AM »

Offline boscel33

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Just read from B/R that Spurs want two 1st's for Poeltl.  Yeah, that's a hard no!
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Re: Renewed / regurgitated Poeltl rumor
« Reply #33 on: January 18, 2023, 10:23:26 AM »

Offline Roy H.

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Also, Derrick White is better.

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Next season, Gallinari may be better than Poeltl.

A better / potentially better fit on our team, I won't argue with.

But objectively better?  I think Poeltl offers a lot that he's not getting credit for.  Despite only playing 26 minutes per night (20th), among centers he's 14th in scoring, 13th in rebounding, 8th in assists, 8th in steals, 12th in blocks, 13th in FTA, and 4th in FG%.

He's arguably a top-10 center, and unquestionably top-15.  I wouldn't want to start him next to Timelord, but if the long-term plan is to have Grant replace Horford, then having an above-average center in tandem with Timelord would give us 48 minutes of very good center play.

But, I can't imagine that Gallo + Pritchard + two #2s gets it done.

Derrick White is better because the game is moving away from players like Poeltl and towards players like White, and has been for sometime.  In a different era, my statement might not have been true.

Again, I don't know.  Centers still have a role.  Any time you can get very good efficiency, defense and rebounding, it's a plus.  And, Poeltl is averaging more assists than Horford, so he'd probably help in the overall offensive scheme.

I mean, they play slightly different roles, but would you say White is a better player than Timelord?


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Re: Renewed / regurgitated Poeltl rumor
« Reply #34 on: January 18, 2023, 10:31:37 AM »

Online Goldstar88

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Two firsts for a borderline starter on an expiring contract. Lol


Boston has maintained an interest in Poeltl for several seasons now and is continuing to monitor his market, according to team sources who were granted anonymity because they were not authorized to speak publicly. The sticking point has been, as always, price. San Antonio has made it known to interested parties throughout the league the Spurs want two first-round picks for Poeltl, according to team and league sources, which was the same stance they took on Derrick White last season.  Ė via Jared Weiss @ The Athletic
« Last Edit: January 18, 2023, 10:51:55 AM by Goldstar88 »
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Re: Renewed / regurgitated Poeltl rumor
« Reply #35 on: January 18, 2023, 10:37:41 AM »

Online Celtics2021

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Also, Derrick White is better.

Quote
Next season, Gallinari may be better than Poeltl.

A better / potentially better fit on our team, I won't argue with.

But objectively better?  I think Poeltl offers a lot that he's not getting credit for.  Despite only playing 26 minutes per night (20th), among centers he's 14th in scoring, 13th in rebounding, 8th in assists, 8th in steals, 12th in blocks, 13th in FTA, and 4th in FG%.

He's arguably a top-10 center, and unquestionably top-15.  I wouldn't want to start him next to Timelord, but if the long-term plan is to have Grant replace Horford, then having an above-average center in tandem with Timelord would give us 48 minutes of very good center play.

But, I can't imagine that Gallo + Pritchard + two #2s gets it done.

Derrick White is better because the game is moving away from players like Poeltl and towards players like White, and has been for sometime.  In a different era, my statement might not have been true.

Again, I don't know.  Centers still have a role.  Any time you can get very good efficiency, defense and rebounding, it's a plus.  And, Poeltl is averaging more assists than Horford, so he'd probably help in the overall offensive scheme.

I mean, they play slightly different roles, but would you say White is a better player than Timelord?

From the context of your question, I think itís a much closer call than you do, especially with White shooting in the upper 30s from 3. 

Re: Renewed / regurgitated Poeltl rumor
« Reply #36 on: January 18, 2023, 10:45:55 AM »

Offline Roy H.

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Also, Derrick White is better.

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Next season, Gallinari may be better than Poeltl.

A better / potentially better fit on our team, I won't argue with.

But objectively better?  I think Poeltl offers a lot that he's not getting credit for.  Despite only playing 26 minutes per night (20th), among centers he's 14th in scoring, 13th in rebounding, 8th in assists, 8th in steals, 12th in blocks, 13th in FTA, and 4th in FG%.

He's arguably a top-10 center, and unquestionably top-15.  I wouldn't want to start him next to Timelord, but if the long-term plan is to have Grant replace Horford, then having an above-average center in tandem with Timelord would give us 48 minutes of very good center play.

But, I can't imagine that Gallo + Pritchard + two #2s gets it done.

Derrick White is better because the game is moving away from players like Poeltl and towards players like White, and has been for sometime.  In a different era, my statement might not have been true.

Again, I don't know.  Centers still have a role.  Any time you can get very good efficiency, defense and rebounding, it's a plus.  And, Poeltl is averaging more assists than Horford, so he'd probably help in the overall offensive scheme.

I mean, they play slightly different roles, but would you say White is a better player than Timelord?

From the context of your question, I think itís a much closer call than you do, especially with White shooting in the upper 30s from 3.

Don't get me wrong, I like White.  But, Timelord takes our team from very good to absolutely elite.  I'd place him in front of White (and forever it's worth, JT seems to want Williams to start consistently over White). 

The one thing that I can't comment on regarding Poeltl is his skill in switching.  He mostly plays drop coverage, and isn't asked to switch as much as our bigs are.  But, reading comments from SA bloggers, I've seen several comments suggesting that he's pretty good when called to switch.  Overall, his defense is very good, reportedly good enough to be in the conversation for All-Defense.

It's not going to happen, but the idea of Poeltl on this team is pretty intriguing.

Timelord / Poeltl
Horford / Grant
Tatum / Garbage
Brown / White
Smart / Brogdon

That team is close to perfect.  In an absolute pipe dream scenario, Josh Richardson gets bought out and wants to come here for a ring.  At that point, we're essentially a team with no weaknesses.


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Re: Renewed / regurgitated Poeltl rumor
« Reply #37 on: January 18, 2023, 10:57:12 AM »

Offline bdm860

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With this old rumor popping up again,  I wonder if the C's involvement is less them aggressively pursuing Poeltl. more just setting the floor with the Spurs,

We know you want two 1sts (but will settle for one) but if you don't get it, our offer of X (Pritchard, Gallo, two 2nds?) is on the table.

The Spurs probably want to avoid a Memphis/Tyreke Evans situation.  Remember that?  Back in '18 when Evans was averaging like 20ppg on a one year 3mil deal, and several contenders wanted to grab Evans (including Boston) but Memphis (who was rebuilding) held out for a 1st rounder, didn't get one, then lost Evans for nothing in the summer.  San Antonio's smarter than that.  Plus getting rid of Poeltl should help them position themselves better for a chance at Wembanyama.

If Poeltl ends up on the C's, I bet it's a deadline deal where they don't give up much.



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Re: Renewed / regurgitated Poeltl rumor
« Reply #38 on: January 18, 2023, 11:03:11 AM »

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Also, Derrick White is better.

Quote
Next season, Gallinari may be better than Poeltl.

A better / potentially better fit on our team, I won't argue with.

But objectively better?  I think Poeltl offers a lot that he's not getting credit for.  Despite only playing 26 minutes per night (20th), among centers he's 14th in scoring, 13th in rebounding, 8th in assists, 8th in steals, 12th in blocks, 13th in FTA, and 4th in FG%.

He's arguably a top-10 center, and unquestionably top-15.  I wouldn't want to start him next to Timelord, but if the long-term plan is to have Grant replace Horford, then having an above-average center in tandem with Timelord would give us 48 minutes of very good center play.

But, I can't imagine that Gallo + Pritchard + two #2s gets it done.

Derrick White is better because the game is moving away from players like Poeltl and towards players like White, and has been for sometime.  In a different era, my statement might not have been true.

Again, I don't know.  Centers still have a role.  Any time you can get very good efficiency, defense and rebounding, it's a plus.  And, Poeltl is averaging more assists than Horford, so he'd probably help in the overall offensive scheme.

I mean, they play slightly different roles, but would you say White is a better player than Timelord?

From the context of your question, I think itís a much closer call than you do, especially with White shooting in the upper 30s from 3.

Don't get me wrong, I like White.  But, Timelord takes our team from very good to absolutely elite.  I'd place him in front of White (and forever it's worth, JT seems to want Williams to start consistently over White). 

The one thing that I can't comment on regarding Poeltl is his skill in switching.  He mostly plays drop coverage, and isn't asked to switch as much as our bigs are.  But, reading comments from SA bloggers, I've seen several comments suggesting that he's pretty good when called to switch.  Overall, his defense is very good, reportedly good enough to be in the conversation for All-Defense.

It's not going to happen, but the idea of Poeltl on this team is pretty intriguing.

Timelord / Poeltl
Horford / Grant
Tatum / Garbage
Brown / White
Smart / Brogdon

That team is close to perfect.  In an absolute pipe dream scenario, Josh Richardson gets bought out and wants to come here for a ring.  At that point, we're essentially a team with no weaknesses.

Thereís another thread devoted to this already, but I think the Cís best starting lineup will turn out to be Smart-White-Brown-Tatum-Rob.  The question is when does Joe make that switch.  Itís coming eventually ó Al signed an extension at reserve money for a reason.  My guess is it happens after JB comes back ó Al will go to the bench and Rob will stay with the starters.

Re: Renewed / regurgitated Poeltl rumor
« Reply #39 on: January 18, 2023, 11:08:52 AM »

Offline Hoopvortex

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Boston has maintained an interest in Poeltl for several seasons now and is continuing to monitor his market, according to team sources who were granted anonymity because they were not authorized to speak publicly. The sticking point has been, as always, price. San Antonio has made it known to interested parties throughout the league the Spurs want two first-round picks for Poeltl, according to team and league sources, which was the same stance they took on Derrick White last season. 7 mins ago Ė via Jared Weiss @ The Athletic

That's obviously a hard no for the Celts.

Itís going to be a hard no for anyone.  Derrick White had 3.5 years left on his contract.  Poeltl has half a season.  Also, Derrick White is better.

Whether White is better or not is less pertinent for me than his fit. White is a great fit on both sides of the ball, while there would be difficulties for Poeltl on both sides of the ball.

But in general, you donít trade a 1st for a 1/2-year rental reserve, which is what Poeltl is to the Celtics.  Some other team who needs a starter might be more interested, although Iím not sure what team that would be.

Yes, exactly. And, of course, Herr Poeltl has something to say about this, and he's likely to want a bigger role than the third big.

Relatedly, Stevens has done a terrific job constructing this team. 

Amen to that. The Brogdon deal, the trade deadline deals last season were just so efficient in bringing in guys who could make it work and slimming the roster. And somehow, privileging shot-creators over shooters led to this season's phenomenally good shooting.

We have the best record in the league, and our most immediate need is a big wing for the 8th-9th man in the rotation.  Someone like Danilo Gallinari.  I donít think he can make it back this year, but Iíd also like to keep him around for next year, because itís easy to see how well heíd fit in.

I agree about Gallinari, except that I'm skeptical that he'll have much of a career left. To be determined.

On the other hand I do not agree that the most immediate need is a big wing. Talent is always welcome, of course. Brad identified scoring off the bench as a priority in his exit interview; and Gallinari addressed that need, but so did Brogdon, who has also been a major shot-creator off the dribble for others as well as himself. Because of Brogdon, the need for another wing is not urgent, ime.

Why a big wing, specifically? And if that's the need, why not give five more mpg to Grant Williams?

I'm more of the school that says the most immediate need is a third big. I'd go further than that,  and say that he should be a good paint protector. But even there there're good options already on the team, at least in case of a short-term absence of Horford or Rob. They've gotten really good minutes from Luke and Blake, and Grant has been stellar as a starter when needed.
'I was proud of Marcus Smart. He did a great job of keeping us together. He might not get credit for this game, but the pace that he played at, and his playcalling, some of the plays that he called were great. We obviously have to rely on him, so Iím definitely looking forward to Marcus leading this team in that role.' - Jaylen Brown, January 2021

Re: Renewed / regurgitated Poeltl rumor
« Reply #40 on: January 18, 2023, 11:25:23 AM »

Offline Hoopvortex

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Also, Derrick White is better.

Quote
Next season, Gallinari may be better than Poeltl.

A better / potentially better fit on our team, I won't argue with.

But objectively better?  I think Poeltl offers a lot that he's not getting credit for.  Despite only playing 26 minutes per night (20th), among centers he's 14th in scoring, 13th in rebounding, 8th in assists, 8th in steals, 12th in blocks, 13th in FTA, and 4th in FG%.

He's arguably a top-10 center, and unquestionably top-15.  I wouldn't want to start him next to Timelord, but if the long-term plan is to have Grant replace Horford, then having an above-average center in tandem with Timelord would give us 48 minutes of very good center play.

But, I can't imagine that Gallo + Pritchard + two #2s gets it done.

Derrick White is better because the game is moving away from players like Poeltl and towards players like White, and has been for sometime.  In a different era, my statement might not have been true.

Again, I don't know.  Centers still have a role.  Any time you can get very good efficiency, defense and rebounding, it's a plus.  And, Poeltl is averaging more assists than Horford, so he'd probably help in the overall offensive scheme.

I mean, they play slightly different roles, but would you say White is a better player than Timelord?

From the context of your question, I think itís a much closer call than you do, especially with White shooting in the upper 30s from 3.

Don't get me wrong, I like White.  But, Timelord takes our team from very good to absolutely elite.  I'd place him in front of White (and forever it's worth, JT seems to want Williams to start consistently over White). 

The one thing that I can't comment on regarding Poeltl is his skill in switching.  He mostly plays drop coverage, and isn't asked to switch as much as our bigs are.  But, reading comments from SA bloggers, I've seen several comments suggesting that he's pretty good when called to switch.  Overall, his defense is very good, reportedly good enough to be in the conversation for All-Defense.

It's not going to happen, but the idea of Poeltl on this team is pretty intriguing.

Timelord / Poeltl
Horford / Grant
Tatum / Garbage
Brown / White
Smart / Brogdon

That team is close to perfect.  In an absolute pipe dream scenario, Josh Richardson gets bought out and wants to come here for a ring.  At that point, we're essentially a team with no weaknesses.

Thereís another thread devoted to this already, but I think the Cís best starting lineup will turn out to be Smart-White-Brown-Tatum-Rob.  The question is when does Joe make that switch.  Itís coming eventually ó Al signed an extension at reserve money for a reason.  My guess is it happens after JB comes back ó Al will go to the bench and Rob will stay with the starters.

Interesting. First of all, kudos for making a bold prediction. Second of all, there's a lot to be said for that lineup as a shot-creating and defensive group. I'd bet that we see some of that, for sure.

The Smart/White tandem has been used frequently by Mazzulla, as it was last year with Udoka. Udoka's Smart/White combos mostly had Grant Williams in them, by the way; and while those naturally had either Brown or Tatum - but not both - the lineup that was exactly what you are proposing was used for 23 minutes last year. The results, you will be glad to know, were spectacular: offense 1.39 per possession; defense 1.02.
'I was proud of Marcus Smart. He did a great job of keeping us together. He might not get credit for this game, but the pace that he played at, and his playcalling, some of the plays that he called were great. We obviously have to rely on him, so Iím definitely looking forward to Marcus leading this team in that role.' - Jaylen Brown, January 2021

Re: Renewed / regurgitated Poeltl rumor
« Reply #41 on: January 18, 2023, 11:46:59 AM »

Offline Vermont Green

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But in general, you donít trade a 1st for a 1/2-year rental reserve, which is what Poeltl is to the Celtics.  Some other team who needs a starter might be more interested, although Iím not sure what team that would be.

Yes, exactly. And, of course, Herr Poeltl has something to say about this, and he's likely to want a bigger role than the third big.

Third big?  You think Poeltl is better than Grant Williams?  Maybe it ends up being kind of a 3A and a 3B.  My prediction would be that Grant would play more minutes than Poeltl if we had them both on the current team.  Just an opinion though.

Re: Renewed / regurgitated Poeltl rumor
« Reply #42 on: January 18, 2023, 11:57:54 AM »

Offline Roy H.

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But in general, you donít trade a 1st for a 1/2-year rental reserve, which is what Poeltl is to the Celtics.  Some other team who needs a starter might be more interested, although Iím not sure what team that would be.

Yes, exactly. And, of course, Herr Poeltl has something to say about this, and he's likely to want a bigger role than the third big.

Third big?  You think Poeltl is better than Grant Williams?  Maybe it ends up being kind of a 3A and a 3B.  My prediction would be that Grant would play more minutes than Poeltl if we had them both on the current team.  Just an opinion though.

Poeltl is better than Grant Williams, yes.  Heís better in every way other than outside shooting.

Not being a jerk here, but have you watched Poeltl play?  Questioning whether Gallinari might be a better player, and ranking him behind or equivalent to Grant seems off to me.  If the argument is based upon fit, I guess I get it, but not in terms of pure "who is better".


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Re: Renewed / regurgitated Poeltl rumor
« Reply #43 on: January 18, 2023, 12:01:49 PM »

Offline Vermont Green

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Thereís another thread devoted to this already, but I think the Cís best starting lineup will turn out to be Smart-White-Brown-Tatum-Rob.  The question is when does Joe make that switch.  Itís coming eventually ó Al signed an extension at reserve money for a reason.  My guess is it happens after JB comes back ó Al will go to the bench and Rob will stay with the starters.
Interesting. First of all, kudos for making a bold prediction. Second of all, there's a lot to be said for that lineup as a shot-creating and defensive group. I'd bet that we see some of that, for sure.

The Smart/White tandem has been used frequently by Mazzulla, as it was last year with Udoka. Udoka's Smart/White combos mostly had Grant Williams in them, by the way; and while those naturally had either Brown or Tatum - but not both - the lineup that was exactly what you are proposing was used for 23 minutes last year. The results, you will be glad to know, were spectacular: offense 1.39 per possession; defense 1.02.

Yes, interesting prediction.  If this is how this goes, I will say right now that I don't agree.  I feel that we are a better team in general, and on defense in particular, with last year's starting line up and by using 2 bigs in general through the game.  I stipulate that I consider Grant Williams a big and Tatum a wing.
 
I will further say, getting back to this thread, that if that is the plan, to have Horford play off the bench and go with 1 big more often, then there is not need at all to get Poeltl and the focus should be to get a forward/wing (big wing?) who can play ahead of Hauser.  I would like to add a forward/wing (big wing) in any case, if there is a reasonable opportunity.

Re: Renewed / regurgitated Poeltl rumor
« Reply #44 on: January 18, 2023, 12:14:06 PM »

Online johnnygreen

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As soon as I saw Poeltl's name yet again, linked to the Celtics via trade, it occurred to me he will not be traded to Boston. I can't remember the last time a player was linked to Boston a month before the trade deadline, and the trade actually happening. If anything, the trades come out of the blue.