Interesting Thing About Baseball…

[GreenlyGreeny]

When we say GOAT in basketball, we think of MJ.

When we say GOAT in hockey, we think of Gretzky.

When we say GOAT in football, we think of Brady.

When we say GOAT in baseball, we say “there’s no such thing,” right? I mean, there’s arguments to be had about greatest starting pitcher, greatest closing pitcher, greatest hitter, etc. Or arguments about the best player at each position. But there’s really no argument about GOAT in baseball because everyone is in agreement it makes no sense, right? Or am I off my rocker here?

Anyway, it’s something I’ve thought about over the years and wanted to throw out here for discussion. Myself, while I’ve always loved playing and watching basketball, I loved playing baseball even more (but am not a big fan of watching it, unlike basketball which I could watch until the cows come home). There’s nothing like pitching on the mound with all eyes on you and everyone on your team counting on you to make the strikeout, right?

But I digress…is there a GOAT in baseball, or just many greats?

[Roy H.]

I think most reasonable people consider Babe Ruth to be the greatest.  I think there’s more of a consensus there than there is in football.

[W8ting2McHale]

Babe Ruth was considered the GOAT for a long time. At least up until some of his all time records started being broken. He had records that stood for generations, not just years or decades, and in both pitching and hitting. Plus he was a national celebrity on the level of Elvis or Pele or Ali. Even though he’s a 2 way player, Shohei Ohtani hasn’t reached that level yet. Baseball isn’t the National sport it was anymore.

Football and basketball haven’t been nationally popular on the level baseball was for as long yet, so historically it might be easier to establish - at least by recent generations - a GOAT. No one alive saw Babe Ruth play. He’s a myth and legend more than a GOAT to anyone alive today.

Generational recency is a thing. Lebron is replacing MJ for some, just like he replaced Russell. Who was considered the NFL GOAT before Brady? Jim Brown was an icon. Bart Starr was a legend. I don’t remember either being called GOAT though.

[johnnygreen]

Did I wake up in an alternate dimension in 2023? Since when has Babe Ruth not been considered the GOAT in baseball?

If anything, there should be no such thing in the NFL, since it's basically the only sport where the players don't play offense and defense.

[Csfan1984]

Baseball probably suffers from lack of dominance by both a player and his team with the exception of Mickey Mantle. Yet his hitting and skills are bested by Mays, Aaron and Williams. I say that because Mantle had a hell of a team which made pitching around Mantle way more difficult. If winning and numbers are important Mantle is the Goat. If you go "What if" it's Williams, he is the greatest hitter ever who lost years to deployment. If you say best all around player it's likely Mays. Oh course in longevity Aaron is the Goat. Pujols gets some respect from me as well as post juice era he is the best hitter. Pujols is probably also facing best pitching crop vs the above players so if some say he is the best hitter all time I won't complain.

On pitching it's Randy Johnson and it's not a debate for me. He has an incredible combination of stats and played for a long time. He also destroyed a few birds and battled in the juice era.

[Moranis]

Ruth is more of a consensus goat than Brady and Jordan.  Brady is obviously the QB goat, but a lot of people think of Rice, LT, or Brown as the greatest player in the sports history.

[Roy H.]

Baseball probably suffers from lack of dominance by both a player and his team with the exception of Mickey Mantle. Yet his hitting and skills are bested by Mays, Aaron and Williams. I say that because Mantle had a hell of a team which made pitching around Mantle way more difficult. If winning and numbers are important Mantle is the Goat. If you go "What if" it's Williams, he is the greatest hitter ever who lost years to deployment. If you say best all around player it's likely Mays. Oh course in longevity Aaron is the Goat. Pujols gets some respect from me as well as post juice era he is the best hitter. Pujols is probably also facing best pitching crop vs the above players so if some say he is the best hitter all time I won't complain.

On pitching it's Randy Johnson and it's not a debate for me. He has an incredible combination of stats and played for a long time. He also destroyed a few birds and battled in the juice era.

Ruth won seven World Series.  He’s the best offensive player ever, and was a legitimately great pitcher.

[Csfan1984]

Usually when someone ask me, "who the Goat in baseball is”, I assume he means post 1947. Which was my answer above. So I wouldn't give the OP a hard time about Ruth being the known Goat. Some don't consider pre1947 in the books for mlb modern sports.

[Roy H.]

Usually when someone ask me, "who the Goat in baseball is”, I assume he means post 1947. Which was my answer above. So I wouldn't give the OP a hard time about Ruth being the known Goat. Some don't consider pre1947 in the books for mlb modern sports.

I don't think that 1947 is a fair line, because it ignores every other major change to the sport.  The lowering of the mound, the creation of the DH, the implementation of the universal DH, the influx of Latino players, amphetamines, supplements, PEDs, etc. 

[johnnygreen]

Usually when someone ask me, "who the Goat in baseball is”, I assume he means post 1947. Which was my answer above. So I wouldn't give the OP a hard time about Ruth being the known Goat. Some don't consider pre1947 in the books for mlb modern sports.

Yes Jackie Robinson broke the color barrier in 1947, however, that in no way should diminish what Babe Ruth accomplished.

Consider this race breakdown in MLB today:
White 58%
Hispanic 32%
Black 7%
Asian 3%

I don't know what those percentages have looked like every year since 1947, but I can't imagine the percent of black players ever being over 15% in any given year. Now if we're talking the NFL or NBA, then the color barrier significantly makes a historic difference. However, if there is a race barrier in MLB, it would have to start with the inclusion of players of Hispanic descent.

[GreenlyGreeny]

I guess I should have clarified post-WW II. So much has changed since then, I didn’t think we were still counting Babe as GOAT since the late 1990s, if not earlier. I mean, there’s maybe a few dozen people still alive who saw Babe Ruth play live at the end of his career, 85/90ish years ago, when they were kids/teens?

TP for pointing out Babe was a good pitcher before becoming an all-time great hitter. Curious if he could have held up as an outfielder in the late 20th century?

The way I see it is there’s a GOAT pitcher, GOAT hitter, and GOAT defender. Babe is probably the GOAT hitter, Willie is probably the GOAT defender, and Nolan is probably the GOAT pitcher. The three areas of the game are so different, I just don’t see how someone could be GOAT without being near the top of hitting and defending, and even then if they’re not GOAT at one of the two, how can they be GOAT of baseball? And it’s not fair to pitchers. Maybe GOAT pitcher and GOAT non-pitcher?

[knuckleballer]

Since WW2, unfortunately it’s Bonds and Clemens, both steroid users.  MLB did such a disservice to the sport by turning a blind eye to steroid use for so long. 

[Roy H.]

Since WW2, unfortunately it’s Bonds and Clemens, both steroid users.  MLB did such a disservice to the sport by turning a blind eye to steroid use for so long.

Clemens is my favorite pitcher, but if you're looking for a "clean" guy, Greg Maddox is pretty untouchable.

[Moranis]

Since WW2, unfortunately it’s Bonds and Clemens, both steroid users.  MLB did such a disservice to the sport by turning a blind eye to steroid use for so long.

baseball has always turned a blind eye to cheating.  Amphetamines was so commonly used in the 70's they had a cute nickname of "Greenies" for them.  Outwardly used in locker rooms for decades and were not banned by the sport until 2006.  MLB let players use them for probably 50 years without a second thought.  And pretty much everyone used them, which is why I always found the outrage of steroids by the older players to by so hypocritical (same from the writers who don't care about speed only roids, but speed in many respects are worse for the health of the player, than steroids). 

Baseball is sport that prides itself on cheating.  Spit balls, pine tar, corked bats, stealing signs (just not with cameras), etc.  It is embedded in the history of the sport, but steroids that is a step too far, apparently.  It is all nonsense. 

The best player since World War 2 is easily Barry Bonds.  I don't think it is really that close.  Plus defender, excellent base stealer, and of course immense power with an unheard of on base percentage.  There wasn't anything Barry Bonds couldn't do. 

That said, Ruth is easily the GOAT.  As big a gap as Bonds has on everyone since WW2, Ruth has on Bonds. 

[MarcusSmartFanClub]

I think the best players of all time are probably more recent. More competition.

Who would you rather pitch one game: prime Pedro or prime Ruth/Cy Young? I’m going with the guy with the filthier pitches- Pedro.

Because of technology, I think modern day athletes, machines (computers, vehicles), and society as a whole improve year over year. The Apple in 1984 was awesome. Apple’s products are much better today.