Author Topic: PEDs / Steroid in Sports: Where Do You Stand?  (Read 6487 times)

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Re: PEDs / Steroid in Sports: Where Do You Stand?
« Reply #30 on: August 16, 2022, 09:35:20 AM »

Offline Roy H.

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For those that asked me what I was referencing

https://www.sportscasting.com/roger-clemens-alleged-inappropriate-affair-with-country-star-mindy-mccready-who-tragically-later-died-by-suicide/
Is having an affair and then denying it really bad stuff?  Obviously it is terribly sad and awful that in the aftermath McCready killed her self, but I have a hard time attributing that to Clemens for denying an affair.  I mean people in walks of life do that every single day, I'm not sure that should be described as really bad stuff.

I think it's the implication that Clemens got involved with her when she was 15.  But, according to McCready, the affair didn't turn physical until she was somewhere between 18 and 21.  If that's the case, he was a terrible husband, which probably applies to very, very many professional athletes.


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Re: PEDs / Steroid in Sports: Where Do You Stand?
« Reply #31 on: August 16, 2022, 09:57:44 AM »

Offline celticsclay

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For those that asked me what I was referencing

https://www.sportscasting.com/roger-clemens-alleged-inappropriate-affair-with-country-star-mindy-mccready-who-tragically-later-died-by-suicide/
Is having an affair and then denying it really bad stuff?  Obviously it is terribly sad and awful that in the aftermath McCready killed her self, but I have a hard time attributing that to Clemens for denying an affair.  I mean people in walks of life do that every single day, I'm not sure that should be described as really bad stuff.

I think it's the implication that Clemens got involved with her when she was 15.  But, according to McCready, the affair didn't turn physical until she was somewhere between 18 and 21.  If that's the case, he was a terrible husband, which probably applies to very, very many professional athletes.

Yeah… it is the love at first sight when she was 15. As said in the article Sources claimed that Clemens and some of his teammates were in a karaoke bar in Fort Myers, Florida, which is McCready’s hometown, where the teenaged aspiring singer was performing and that it was “love at first sight” for Clemens, who allegedly threw a shirt onstage with his signature on it, which led to an introduction. You guys are going to say you would meet a 15 year old when you were almost 30 and fall in love while married but be a gentlemen enough to hold off on sex for two years? He would probably be in jail if this happened in the Internet era but it was largely swept under the rug at the time because this stuff was almost viewed as ok. In fact look at this insane article from Houston:

https://www.houstonpress.com/music/roger-clemens-is-not-alone-more-famous-dalliances-between-athletes-and-entertainers-6515593

It calls the underage relationship gross but uses it as a jumping off point to list other famous “dalliances.”
« Last Edit: August 16, 2022, 10:02:46 AM by celticsclay »

Re: PEDs / Steroid in Sports: Where Do You Stand?
« Reply #32 on: August 16, 2022, 10:02:31 AM »

Offline Roy H.

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For those that asked me what I was referencing

https://www.sportscasting.com/roger-clemens-alleged-inappropriate-affair-with-country-star-mindy-mccready-who-tragically-later-died-by-suicide/
Is having an affair and then denying it really bad stuff?  Obviously it is terribly sad and awful that in the aftermath McCready killed her self, but I have a hard time attributing that to Clemens for denying an affair.  I mean people in walks of life do that every single day, I'm not sure that should be described as really bad stuff.

I think it's the implication that Clemens got involved with her when she was 15.  But, according to McCready, the affair didn't turn physical until she was somewhere between 18 and 21.  If that's the case, he was a terrible husband, which probably applies to very, very many professional athletes.

Yeah… it is the love at first sight when she was 15. As said in the article Sources claimed that Clemens and some of his teammates were in a karaoke bar in Fort Myers, Florida, which is McCready’s hometown, where the teenaged aspiring singer was performing and that it was “love at first sight” for Clemens, who allegedly threw a shirt onstage with his signature on it, which led to an introduction. You guys are going to say you would meet a 15 year old when you were almost 30 and fall in love while married but be a gentlemen enough to hold off on sex for two years? He would probably be in jail if this happened in the Internet era but it was largely swept under the rug at the time because this stuff was almost viewed as ok.

I doubt the "love at first sight" thing is coming from Clemens.  And, McCready had a very, very troubled life, including several terrible relationships, drug addiction, and several suicide attempts before ending her own life.  I'm not sure she was the most reliable reporter, but even she is saying that nothing intimate happened until she moved to Nashville and was a "star" (which happened at 21).


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Re: PEDs / Steroid in Sports: Where Do You Stand?
« Reply #33 on: August 16, 2022, 10:04:23 AM »

Offline celticsclay

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For those that asked me what I was referencing

https://www.sportscasting.com/roger-clemens-alleged-inappropriate-affair-with-country-star-mindy-mccready-who-tragically-later-died-by-suicide/
Is having an affair and then denying it really bad stuff?  Obviously it is terribly sad and awful that in the aftermath McCready killed her self, but I have a hard time attributing that to Clemens for denying an affair.  I mean people in walks of life do that every single day, I'm not sure that should be described as really bad stuff.

I think it's the implication that Clemens got involved with her when she was 15.  But, according to McCready, the affair didn't turn physical until she was somewhere between 18 and 21.  If that's the case, he was a terrible husband, which probably applies to very, very many professional athletes.

Yeah… it is the love at first sight when she was 15. As said in the article Sources claimed that Clemens and some of his teammates were in a karaoke bar in Fort Myers, Florida, which is McCready’s hometown, where the teenaged aspiring singer was performing and that it was “love at first sight” for Clemens, who allegedly threw a shirt onstage with his signature on it, which led to an introduction. You guys are going to say you would meet a 15 year old when you were almost 30 and fall in love while married but be a gentlemen enough to hold off on sex for two years? He would probably be in jail if this happened in the Internet era but it was largely swept under the rug at the time because this stuff was almost viewed as ok.

I doubt the "love at first sight" thing is coming from Clemens.  And, McCready had a very, very troubled life, including several terrible relationships, drug addiction, and several suicide attempts before ending her own life.  I'm not sure she was the most reliable reporter, but even she is saying that nothing intimate happened until she moved to Nashville and was a "star" (which happened at 21).

So Roy your stance is he saw this 15 year old on stage and started flying her all over the world and taking vacations with her, but she was just his new best friend?

Re: PEDs / Steroid in Sports: Where Do You Stand?
« Reply #34 on: August 16, 2022, 10:11:48 AM »

Offline Roy H.

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For those that asked me what I was referencing

https://www.sportscasting.com/roger-clemens-alleged-inappropriate-affair-with-country-star-mindy-mccready-who-tragically-later-died-by-suicide/
Is having an affair and then denying it really bad stuff?  Obviously it is terribly sad and awful that in the aftermath McCready killed her self, but I have a hard time attributing that to Clemens for denying an affair.  I mean people in walks of life do that every single day, I'm not sure that should be described as really bad stuff.

I think it's the implication that Clemens got involved with her when she was 15.  But, according to McCready, the affair didn't turn physical until she was somewhere between 18 and 21.  If that's the case, he was a terrible husband, which probably applies to very, very many professional athletes.

Yeah… it is the love at first sight when she was 15. As said in the article Sources claimed that Clemens and some of his teammates were in a karaoke bar in Fort Myers, Florida, which is McCready’s hometown, where the teenaged aspiring singer was performing and that it was “love at first sight” for Clemens, who allegedly threw a shirt onstage with his signature on it, which led to an introduction. You guys are going to say you would meet a 15 year old when you were almost 30 and fall in love while married but be a gentlemen enough to hold off on sex for two years? He would probably be in jail if this happened in the Internet era but it was largely swept under the rug at the time because this stuff was almost viewed as ok.

I doubt the "love at first sight" thing is coming from Clemens.  And, McCready had a very, very troubled life, including several terrible relationships, drug addiction, and several suicide attempts before ending her own life.  I'm not sure she was the most reliable reporter, but even she is saying that nothing intimate happened until she moved to Nashville and was a "star" (which happened at 21).

So Roy your stance is he saw this 15 year old on stage and started flying her all over the world and taking vacations with her, but she was just his new best friend?

I have no idea what happened, but from my experience, if both people in a contentious breakup agree on certain facts, they're probably true.  McCready is saying nothing physical happened until between age 18 and 21 (presumably closer to age 21).  Even after a supposedly contentious ending to the affair, and after years of drugs and suicide attempts, McCready maintained that.  Are you saying she's lying?  Why?


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Re: PEDs / Steroid in Sports: Where Do You Stand?
« Reply #35 on: August 16, 2022, 10:17:54 AM »

Offline celticsclay

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For those that asked me what I was referencing

https://www.sportscasting.com/roger-clemens-alleged-inappropriate-affair-with-country-star-mindy-mccready-who-tragically-later-died-by-suicide/
Is having an affair and then denying it really bad stuff?  Obviously it is terribly sad and awful that in the aftermath McCready killed her self, but I have a hard time attributing that to Clemens for denying an affair.  I mean people in walks of life do that every single day, I'm not sure that should be described as really bad stuff.

I think it's the implication that Clemens got involved with her when she was 15.  But, according to McCready, the affair didn't turn physical until she was somewhere between 18 and 21.  If that's the case, he was a terrible husband, which probably applies to very, very many professional athletes.

Yeah… it is the love at first sight when she was 15. As said in the article Sources claimed that Clemens and some of his teammates were in a karaoke bar in Fort Myers, Florida, which is McCready’s hometown, where the teenaged aspiring singer was performing and that it was “love at first sight” for Clemens, who allegedly threw a shirt onstage with his signature on it, which led to an introduction. You guys are going to say you would meet a 15 year old when you were almost 30 and fall in love while married but be a gentlemen enough to hold off on sex for two years? He would probably be in jail if this happened in the Internet era but it was largely swept under the rug at the time because this stuff was almost viewed as ok.

I doubt the "love at first sight" thing is coming from Clemens.  And, McCready had a very, very troubled life, including several terrible relationships, drug addiction, and several suicide attempts before ending her own life.  I'm not sure she was the most reliable reporter, but even she is saying that nothing intimate happened until she moved to Nashville and was a "star" (which happened at 21).

So Roy your stance is he saw this 15 year old on stage and started flying her all over the world and taking vacations with her, but she was just his new best friend?

I have no idea what happened, but from my experience, if both people in a contentious breakup agree on certain facts, they're probably true.  McCready is saying nothing physical happened until between age 18 and 21 (presumably closer to age 21).  Even after a supposedly contentious ending to the affair, and after years of drugs and suicide attempts, McCready maintained that.  Are you saying she's lying?  Why?

My belief would be that this relationship went on for a really long time, and she cared about him, and saying otherwise would have gotten Roger Clemens into jail for statutory rape. She also repeatedly apologized to clemens wife. At the absolute very least what clemens did going on vacations with a 15 year old woman was “grooming” and deeply disturbing. This article sums up how I feel o. The matter. https://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/platform/amp/2019/11/20/20972682/roger-clemens-mindy-mccready-ped-hall-of-fame-character-clause-mlb-hot-stove

Re: PEDs / Steroid in Sports: Where Do You Stand?
« Reply #36 on: August 16, 2022, 10:21:50 AM »

Offline Roy H.

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For those that asked me what I was referencing

https://www.sportscasting.com/roger-clemens-alleged-inappropriate-affair-with-country-star-mindy-mccready-who-tragically-later-died-by-suicide/
Is having an affair and then denying it really bad stuff?  Obviously it is terribly sad and awful that in the aftermath McCready killed her self, but I have a hard time attributing that to Clemens for denying an affair.  I mean people in walks of life do that every single day, I'm not sure that should be described as really bad stuff.

I think it's the implication that Clemens got involved with her when she was 15.  But, according to McCready, the affair didn't turn physical until she was somewhere between 18 and 21.  If that's the case, he was a terrible husband, which probably applies to very, very many professional athletes.

Yeah… it is the love at first sight when she was 15. As said in the article Sources claimed that Clemens and some of his teammates were in a karaoke bar in Fort Myers, Florida, which is McCready’s hometown, where the teenaged aspiring singer was performing and that it was “love at first sight” for Clemens, who allegedly threw a shirt onstage with his signature on it, which led to an introduction. You guys are going to say you would meet a 15 year old when you were almost 30 and fall in love while married but be a gentlemen enough to hold off on sex for two years? He would probably be in jail if this happened in the Internet era but it was largely swept under the rug at the time because this stuff was almost viewed as ok.

I doubt the "love at first sight" thing is coming from Clemens.  And, McCready had a very, very troubled life, including several terrible relationships, drug addiction, and several suicide attempts before ending her own life.  I'm not sure she was the most reliable reporter, but even she is saying that nothing intimate happened until she moved to Nashville and was a "star" (which happened at 21).

So Roy your stance is he saw this 15 year old on stage and started flying her all over the world and taking vacations with her, but she was just his new best friend?

I have no idea what happened, but from my experience, if both people in a contentious breakup agree on certain facts, they're probably true.  McCready is saying nothing physical happened until between age 18 and 21 (presumably closer to age 21).  Even after a supposedly contentious ending to the affair, and after years of drugs and suicide attempts, McCready maintained that.  Are you saying she's lying?  Why?

My belief would be that this relationship went on for a really long time, and she cared about him, and saying otherwise would have gotten Roger Clemens into jail for statutory rape. She also repeatedly apologized to clemens wife. At the absolute very least what clemens did going on vacations with a 15 year old woman was “grooming” and deeply disturbing. This article sums up how I feel o. The matter. https://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/platform/amp/2019/11/20/20972682/roger-clemens-mindy-mccready-ped-hall-of-fame-character-clause-mlb-hot-stove

I don't think anybody has ever said that Clemens and McCready were jet-setting around the world when she was 15, lol.  You can have your opinion, but not your own facts.

They knew each other for 10 years, and the trips were reportedly public and when McCready was an adult.  You are literally taking the innuendo of a tabloid over the word of the woman involved, who has said that the tabloid got multiple facts wrong. 

And, that article you linked is a trash hit piece.  How do we know that?  Because not once is it mentioned that McCready denied a sexual relationship until she was into her adult years.  I think the nonsense that a 21 year old woman can't consent to a relationship with an older man to be sexist garbage, to be honest. 


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Re: PEDs / Steroid in Sports: Where Do You Stand?
« Reply #37 on: August 16, 2022, 10:23:21 AM »

Offline Moranis

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For those that asked me what I was referencing

https://www.sportscasting.com/roger-clemens-alleged-inappropriate-affair-with-country-star-mindy-mccready-who-tragically-later-died-by-suicide/
Is having an affair and then denying it really bad stuff?  Obviously it is terribly sad and awful that in the aftermath McCready killed her self, but I have a hard time attributing that to Clemens for denying an affair.  I mean people in walks of life do that every single day, I'm not sure that should be described as really bad stuff.

I think it's the implication that Clemens got involved with her when she was 15.  But, according to McCready, the affair didn't turn physical until she was somewhere between 18 and 21.  If that's the case, he was a terrible husband, which probably applies to very, very many professional athletes.

Yeah… it is the love at first sight when she was 15. As said in the article Sources claimed that Clemens and some of his teammates were in a karaoke bar in Fort Myers, Florida, which is McCready’s hometown, where the teenaged aspiring singer was performing and that it was “love at first sight” for Clemens, who allegedly threw a shirt onstage with his signature on it, which led to an introduction. You guys are going to say you would meet a 15 year old when you were almost 30 and fall in love while married but be a gentlemen enough to hold off on sex for two years? He would probably be in jail if this happened in the Internet era but it was largely swept under the rug at the time because this stuff was almost viewed as ok.

I doubt the "love at first sight" thing is coming from Clemens.  And, McCready had a very, very troubled life, including several terrible relationships, drug addiction, and several suicide attempts before ending her own life.  I'm not sure she was the most reliable reporter, but even she is saying that nothing intimate happened until she moved to Nashville and was a "star" (which happened at 21).

So Roy your stance is he saw this 15 year old on stage and started flying her all over the world and taking vacations with her, but she was just his new best friend?

I have no idea what happened, but from my experience, if both people in a contentious breakup agree on certain facts, they're probably true.  McCready is saying nothing physical happened until between age 18 and 21 (presumably closer to age 21).  Even after a supposedly contentious ending to the affair, and after years of drugs and suicide attempts, McCready maintained that.  Are you saying she's lying?  Why?
In addition, it may very well be that Clemens was attracted to her, but then found out she was 15 and did absolutely nothing illegal or intimate until much later on.  Given that is what McCready has said, I see no reason to think this was anything other than an affair, which when made public, he denied.  Which seems like pretty common behavior.  She also said that when she got involved with others, she broke it off and then went back to him when she was single.  So it seems pretty clear this was a consensual mutual relationship.  It is terribly tragic that McCready killed herself, but I just can't put that on Clemens, and if an affair is really bad stuff then probably very few athletes (or frankly maybe even people) are in the clear on that one.
I was finally wrong. Boston not only didn't win in 5, but didn't win at all.

Re: PEDs / Steroid in Sports: Where Do You Stand?
« Reply #38 on: August 16, 2022, 10:25:45 AM »

Offline celticsclay

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Roy we can have a difference opinion on how bad we think this was, but I don’t think I am making anything up. This is literally what was reported and confirmed by the girl.

In 2008, the New York Daily News reported that “Roger Clemens carried on a decade-long affair with country star Mindy McCready, a romance that began when McCready was a 15-year-old aspiring singer performing in a karaoke bar and Clemens was a 28-year-old Red Sox ace and married father of two, several sources have told the Daily News.”

A few days later, McCready confirmed the Daily News account, saying “I cannot refute anything in the story.”

For what it’s worth he also apparently brought her back to his hotel room the night he met her, but didn’t have sex. After the teenage McCready met Clemens at a Fort Myers bar called The Hired Hand, she returned with the Rocket to his hotel room, but there was no sex that night, sources told The News.

At an absolute minimum I would hope we could all agree this is super creepy stuff.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2022, 10:33:04 AM by celticsclay »

Re: PEDs / Steroid in Sports: Where Do You Stand?
« Reply #39 on: August 16, 2022, 10:28:15 AM »

Offline Roy H.

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Roy we can have a difference opinion on how bad we think this was, but I don’t think I am making anything up. This is literally what was reported and confirmed by the girl.

In 2008, the New York Daily News reported that “Roger Clemens carried on a decade-long affair with country star Mindy McCready, a romance that began when McCready was a 15-year-old aspiring singer performing in a karaoke bar and Clemens was a 28-year-old Red Sox ace and married father of two, several sources have told the Daily News.”

A few days later, McCready confirmed the Daily News account, saying “I cannot refute anything in the story.”

And yet, she did refute multiple things in the story.  She wasn't 15 when they met.  There was no intimate affair until she was an adult, probably closer to 21.  There's no allegation that he was flying her around at age 15 (or 16).  That's all made up nonsense.


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Re: PEDs / Steroid in Sports: Where Do You Stand?
« Reply #40 on: August 16, 2022, 10:31:16 AM »

Offline Moranis

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Roy we can have a difference opinion on how bad we think this was, but I don’t think I am making anything up. This is literally what was reported and confirmed by the girl.

In 2008, the New York Daily News reported that “Roger Clemens carried on a decade-long affair with country star Mindy McCready, a romance that began when McCready was a 15-year-old aspiring singer performing in a karaoke bar and Clemens was a 28-year-old Red Sox ace and married father of two, several sources have told the Daily News.”

A few days later, McCready confirmed the Daily News account, saying “I cannot refute anything in the story.”

And yet, she did refute multiple things in the story.  She wasn't 15 when they met.  There was no intimate affair until she was an adult, probably closer to 21.  There's no allegation that he was flying her around at age 15 (or 16).  That's all made up nonsense.
Yep.  I mean that article clay cited, linked to this Deadspin article

https://deadspin.com/reports-former-roger-clemens-mistress-mindy-mccready-c-5984929

Quote
Information is still trickling in, but Mindy McCready, who at one time was involved in an affair with Roger Clemens, has reportedly committed suicide. In May 2008, The New York Daily News reported she was involved in a long term affair with Clemens going back to when she was 16 years old. McCready admitted the relationship was decades-long, it did not become sexual until years after they met. McCready was hospitalized for an attempted suicide in December of 2008. She had tried to kill herself at least two times prior to that.

They linked several other sources in that article which no longer work, but the one to the other Deadspin article does, which cites directly to a television interview on Inside Edition

https://deadspin.com/mindy-mccready-did-not-have-sex-with-roger-clemens-when-5091741

Quote
For one thing, our aspiring country & western diva says that there was no humpty-hump occurring between the two when she was 15. So put that right out of your head. McCready says that the two met when she was 16, and that a sexual relationship did not develop until "years later."
I was finally wrong. Boston not only didn't win in 5, but didn't win at all.

Re: PEDs / Steroid in Sports: Where Do You Stand?
« Reply #41 on: August 16, 2022, 10:40:05 AM »

Offline celticsclay

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I’ll give you guys both tps for providing your opinions and sources a
Well. I think we just have differing opinions on a 28 year old developing any kind of a relationship ship with a 16 year old and inviting them back to your hotel room. I think it is fair to be skeptical that nothing happened when she was 16 because her saying otherwise would have caused clemens to go to jail for statutory rape and she repeatedly talked about how much she cared for him and him being a great man (even years later) I do admit that part is speculation on my part.

Re: PEDs / Steroid in Sports: Where Do You Stand?
« Reply #42 on: August 16, 2022, 10:42:26 AM »

Offline Kernewek

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A few thoughts & opinions:

The VC firm that bought Deadspin has really done a number on that website, haven't they?

Clemens is/was a creep, regardless of the legality of his behaviour.

PEDs should be allowed for recovery but barred in competition unless all competitors have equal access to them - this is obviously unsustainable and unenforceable.

Man had always assumed that he was more intelligent than dolphins because he had achieved so much—the wheel, New York, wars and so on—whilst all the dolphins had ever done was muck about in the water having a good time.

But conversely, the dolphins had always believed that they were far more intelligent than man—for precisely the same reasons.

Re: PEDs / Steroid in Sports: Where Do You Stand?
« Reply #43 on: August 16, 2022, 10:48:24 AM »

Offline Roy H.

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PEDs should be allowed for recovery but barred in competition unless all competitors have equal access to them - this is obviously unsustainable and unenforceable.

I think another member mentioned something like this, as well.

How do you define "recovery"?  What if it's something like Timelord's knee last season, where he's trying to play through pain.  At that point, he's both in recovery *and* in competition. 

I think there's obviously a use for PEDs when recovering from surgeries, but I'm also okay with them for day-to-day healing.


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Re: PEDs / Steroid in Sports: Where Do You Stand?
« Reply #44 on: August 16, 2022, 11:01:23 AM »

Offline Kernewek

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PEDs should be allowed for recovery but barred in competition unless all competitors have equal access to them - this is obviously unsustainable and unenforceable.

I think another member mentioned something like this, as well.

How do you define "recovery"?  What if it's something like Timelord's knee last season, where he's trying to play through pain.  At that point, he's both in recovery *and* in competition. 

I think there's obviously a use for PEDs when recovering from surgeries, but I'm also okay with them for day-to-day healing.

At a glance I would say that you'd probably have to come to a league-wide agreement around a mandatory minimum number of game's missed depending on the treatment, but that's mostly from a health perspective (playing through pain is an individual choice, but it's stupid - especially in 2022 when everyone is 'load managed').

edit: for example, Timelord takes Chemical X to help in his back recovery, the CBA says he has to miss X number of days/games after ending his treatment because Chemical X is a PED. I think that's much more honest and above-the-board than just a blanket ban.
Man had always assumed that he was more intelligent than dolphins because he had achieved so much—the wheel, New York, wars and so on—whilst all the dolphins had ever done was muck about in the water having a good time.

But conversely, the dolphins had always believed that they were far more intelligent than man—for precisely the same reasons.