Philly offering Thybulle, #23 to create space?

[celticsclay]

So here is what I could come up with.

Miami - Harris, future 2nd (from Bos)
Philly - Lowry, Tucker, future 2nd (from Bos)
Boston - Robinson, Thybulle, 23

So Boston absorbs Robinson into the Fournier TPE, Thybulle into a smaller TPE, and gets 23 for 2 future 2nd's.  Miami gets out of Lowry and Robinson while getting a solid player in Harris.  Philly gets out of Harris, but takes on Lowry and gets Tucker at the expense of Thybulle and 23.

Edit: And I totally get 3-team trades aren't common, especially for 3 contenders to all trade with each other, but I do think it is a trade that makes a fair amount of sense for all 3 teams.

Robinson’s salary is terrible and the Celtics should not need to trade 2nd round picks as part of it.  Bobby Marks was suggesting that moving Robinson would cost Miami a 1st and player.

If we were able to get Miami to swing 27 or a future 1st as part of the deal, would you do it? I think it would be pretty interesting. Leaves us with this as a team:

Smart / Pritchard
Brown / White / Thybulle
Tatum / Robinson / Nesmith
Horford / Grant / #23 (EJ Liddell?)
Rob / Theis

Would still have the MLE to try and beef up the bench wherever we see fit. It's interesting

It gives us a lot of flexibility in 60 days to make another trade in which we would not need to give up Smart or White. We could aggregate multiple prospects together with Robinson and Theis to get a higher end rotation player. I'd be targeting a 4-5 that could replace Horford

Are people honestly not aware that Robinson has the worst contract in the league and is unplayable? He makes enes kanter look like an all defensive player.

I don't find this to be true at all. My eye test doesn't rate him that badly, merely below average, and none of the advanced defensive metrics have him as that bad. Guys like McDermott, Terrence Ross and Patty Mills are all significantly worse at defence playing the exact same role, just off the top of my head. He started all year on the #1 seed in the East for a reason.

I think we all agree spoelstra is a very good coach. Probably top 3 in the league. Robinson played 90 total minutes the last two rounds against Boston and Philly combined (13 games). What is your explanation for that and committing to 70 million for a guy one of the best coaches in the game finds basically unplayable against playoff teams? Really pretty shocked by your take on this Gouki

[gouki88]

So here is what I could come up with.

Miami - Harris, future 2nd (from Bos)
Philly - Lowry, Tucker, future 2nd (from Bos)
Boston - Robinson, Thybulle, 23

So Boston absorbs Robinson into the Fournier TPE, Thybulle into a smaller TPE, and gets 23 for 2 future 2nd's.  Miami gets out of Lowry and Robinson while getting a solid player in Harris.  Philly gets out of Harris, but takes on Lowry and gets Tucker at the expense of Thybulle and 23.

Edit: And I totally get 3-team trades aren't common, especially for 3 contenders to all trade with each other, but I do think it is a trade that makes a fair amount of sense for all 3 teams.

Robinson’s salary is terrible and the Celtics should not need to trade 2nd round picks as part of it.  Bobby Marks was suggesting that moving Robinson would cost Miami a 1st and player.

If we were able to get Miami to swing 27 or a future 1st as part of the deal, would you do it? I think it would be pretty interesting. Leaves us with this as a team:

Smart / Pritchard
Brown / White / Thybulle
Tatum / Robinson / Nesmith
Horford / Grant / #23 (EJ Liddell?)
Rob / Theis

Would still have the MLE to try and beef up the bench wherever we see fit. It's interesting

It gives us a lot of flexibility in 60 days to make another trade in which we would not need to give up Smart or White. We could aggregate multiple prospects together with Robinson and Theis to get a higher end rotation player. I'd be targeting a 4-5 that could replace Horford

Are people honestly not aware that Robinson has the worst contract in the league and is unplayable? He makes enes kanter look like an all defensive player.

I don't find this to be true at all. My eye test doesn't rate him that badly, merely below average, and none of the advanced defensive metrics have him as that bad. Guys like McDermott, Terrence Ross and Patty Mills are all significantly worse at defence playing the exact same role, just off the top of my head. He started all year on the #1 seed in the East for a reason.

I think we all agree spoelstra is a very good coach. Probably top 3 in the league. Robinson played 90 total minutes the last two rounds against Boston and Philly combined (13 games). What is your explanation for that and committing to 70 million for a guy one of the best coaches in the game finds basically unplayable against playoff teams? Really pretty shocked by your take on this Gouki

Because Spo, like any, isn’t perfect. Playing Lowry & Strus so much more than Vincent, Martin & Robinson was a mistake.

[pokeKingCurtis]

So here is what I could come up with.

Miami - Harris, future 2nd (from Bos)
Philly - Lowry, Tucker, future 2nd (from Bos)
Boston - Robinson, Thybulle, 23

So Boston absorbs Robinson into the Fournier TPE, Thybulle into a smaller TPE, and gets 23 for 2 future 2nd's.  Miami gets out of Lowry and Robinson while getting a solid player in Harris.  Philly gets out of Harris, but takes on Lowry and gets Tucker at the expense of Thybulle and 23.

Edit: And I totally get 3-team trades aren't common, especially for 3 contenders to all trade with each other, but I do think it is a trade that makes a fair amount of sense for all 3 teams.

Robinson’s salary is terrible and the Celtics should not need to trade 2nd round picks as part of it.  Bobby Marks was suggesting that moving Robinson would cost Miami a 1st and player.

If we were able to get Miami to swing 27 or a future 1st as part of the deal, would you do it? I think it would be pretty interesting. Leaves us with this as a team:

Smart / Pritchard
Brown / White / Thybulle
Tatum / Robinson / Nesmith
Horford / Grant / #23 (EJ Liddell?)
Rob / Theis

Would still have the MLE to try and beef up the bench wherever we see fit. It's interesting

It gives us a lot of flexibility in 60 days to make another trade in which we would not need to give up Smart or White. We could aggregate multiple prospects together with Robinson and Theis to get a higher end rotation player. I'd be targeting a 4-5 that could replace Horford

Are people honestly not aware that Robinson has the worst contract in the league and is unplayable? He makes enes kanter look like an all defensive player.

I don't find this to be true at all. My eye test doesn't rate him that badly, merely below average, and none of the advanced defensive metrics have him as that bad. Guys like McDermott, Terrence Ross and Patty Mills are all significantly worse at defence playing the exact same role, just off the top of my head. He started all year on the #1 seed in the East for a reason.

I think we all agree spoelstra is a very good coach. Probably top 3 in the league. Robinson played 90 total minutes the last two rounds against Boston and Philly combined (13 games). What is your explanation for that and committing to 70 million for a guy one of the best coaches in the game finds basically unplayable against playoff teams? Really pretty shocked by your take on this Gouki

Because Spo, like any, isn’t perfect. Playing Lowry & Strus so much more than Vincent, Martin & Robinson was a mistake.

Just playing devil's advocate

Us having one of the best defenses in the past however many years...

Makes it so difficult for Miami to play some of their guys...they would have been fine against 95% of the league..just the C's were so crazy.

[Moranis]

So here is what I could come up with.

Miami - Harris, future 2nd (from Bos)
Philly - Lowry, Tucker, future 2nd (from Bos)
Boston - Robinson, Thybulle, 23

So Boston absorbs Robinson into the Fournier TPE, Thybulle into a smaller TPE, and gets 23 for 2 future 2nd's.  Miami gets out of Lowry and Robinson while getting a solid player in Harris.  Philly gets out of Harris, but takes on Lowry and gets Tucker at the expense of Thybulle and 23.

Edit: And I totally get 3-team trades aren't common, especially for 3 contenders to all trade with each other, but I do think it is a trade that makes a fair amount of sense for all 3 teams.

Robinson’s salary is terrible and the Celtics should not need to trade 2nd round picks as part of it.  Bobby Marks was suggesting that moving Robinson would cost Miami a 1st and player.

If we were able to get Miami to swing 27 or a future 1st as part of the deal, would you do it? I think it would be pretty interesting. Leaves us with this as a team:

Smart / Pritchard
Brown / White / Thybulle
Tatum / Robinson / Nesmith
Horford / Grant / #23 (EJ Liddell?)
Rob / Theis

Would still have the MLE to try and beef up the bench wherever we see fit. It's interesting

It gives us a lot of flexibility in 60 days to make another trade in which we would not need to give up Smart or White. We could aggregate multiple prospects together with Robinson and Theis to get a higher end rotation player. I'd be targeting a 4-5 that could replace Horford

Are people honestly not aware that Robinson has the worst contract in the league and is unplayable? He makes enes kanter look like an all defensive player.

I don't find this to be true at all. My eye test doesn't rate him that badly, merely below average, and none of the advanced defensive metrics have him as that bad. Guys like McDermott, Terrence Ross and Patty Mills are all significantly worse at defence playing the exact same role, just off the top of my head. He started all year on the #1 seed in the East for a reason.

I think we all agree spoelstra is a very good coach. Probably top 3 in the league. Robinson played 90 total minutes the last two rounds against Boston and Philly combined (13 games). What is your explanation for that and committing to 70 million for a guy one of the best coaches in the game finds basically unplayable against playoff teams? Really pretty shocked by your take on this Gouki

Because Spo, like any, isn’t perfect. Playing Lowry & Strus so much more than Vincent, Martin & Robinson was a mistake.

Plus Robinson was in a shooting slump and is not a good defender, making a match-up with the C's who have 2 excellent offensive wings far more problematic.  That said, the 2 games Robinson got big minutes against Boston i.e. games 4 and 5, Robinson was +12 in 50 minutes (and shot better at 7 of 18 from 3), while in the 46 minutes he sat Miami was -45 in those 2 games. 

The rest of the series, Robinson did not shoot very well (i.e. 0 of 6 from 3 in the 3 games) and when he isn't shooting well he is difficult to play against a team like the Celtics.  Similarly, he did not shoot very well the last 3 games against the Hawks or the 3 games he played against the Sixers.

Robinson's value is as a shooter, but he is very streaky.  He is the type of guy though that when he catches fire can alter a game, and that makes him valuable as a bench player. 

[celticsclay]

So here is what I could come up with.

Miami - Harris, future 2nd (from Bos)
Philly - Lowry, Tucker, future 2nd (from Bos)
Boston - Robinson, Thybulle, 23

So Boston absorbs Robinson into the Fournier TPE, Thybulle into a smaller TPE, and gets 23 for 2 future 2nd's.  Miami gets out of Lowry and Robinson while getting a solid player in Harris.  Philly gets out of Harris, but takes on Lowry and gets Tucker at the expense of Thybulle and 23.

Edit: And I totally get 3-team trades aren't common, especially for 3 contenders to all trade with each other, but I do think it is a trade that makes a fair amount of sense for all 3 teams.

Robinson’s salary is terrible and the Celtics should not need to trade 2nd round picks as part of it.  Bobby Marks was suggesting that moving Robinson would cost Miami a 1st and player.

If we were able to get Miami to swing 27 or a future 1st as part of the deal, would you do it? I think it would be pretty interesting. Leaves us with this as a team:

Smart / Pritchard
Brown / White / Thybulle
Tatum / Robinson / Nesmith
Horford / Grant / #23 (EJ Liddell?)
Rob / Theis

Would still have the MLE to try and beef up the bench wherever we see fit. It's interesting

It gives us a lot of flexibility in 60 days to make another trade in which we would not need to give up Smart or White. We could aggregate multiple prospects together with Robinson and Theis to get a higher end rotation player. I'd be targeting a 4-5 that could replace Horford

Are people honestly not aware that Robinson has the worst contract in the league and is unplayable? He makes enes kanter look like an all defensive player.

I don't find this to be true at all. My eye test doesn't rate him that badly, merely below average, and none of the advanced defensive metrics have him as that bad. Guys like McDermott, Terrence Ross and Patty Mills are all significantly worse at defence playing the exact same role, just off the top of my head. He started all year on the #1 seed in the East for a reason.

I think we all agree spoelstra is a very good coach. Probably top 3 in the league. Robinson played 90 total minutes the last two rounds against Boston and Philly combined (13 games). What is your explanation for that and committing to 70 million for a guy one of the best coaches in the game finds basically unplayable against playoff teams? Really pretty shocked by your take on this Gouki

Because Spo, like any, isn’t perfect. Playing Lowry & Strus so much more than Vincent, Martin & Robinson was a mistake.

Plus Robinson was in a shooting slump and is not a good defender, making a match-up with the C's who have 2 excellent offensive wings far more problematic.  That said, the 2 games Robinson got big minutes against Boston i.e. games 4 and 5, Robinson was +12 in 50 minutes (and shot better at 7 of 18 from 3), while in the 46 minutes he sat Miami was -45 in those 2 games. 

The rest of the series, Robinson did not shoot very well (i.e. 0 of 6 from 3 in the 3 games) and when he isn't shooting well he is difficult to play against a team like the Celtics.  Similarly, he did not shoot very well the last 3 games against the Hawks or the 3 games he played against the Sixers.

Robinson's value is as a shooter, but he is very streaky.  He is the type of guy though that when he catches fire can alter a game, and that makes him valuable as a bench player.

Even if we say this is all true, you want 70 million committed to a shooter that is lousy at defense?

[Moranis]

So here is what I could come up with.

Miami - Harris, future 2nd (from Bos)
Philly - Lowry, Tucker, future 2nd (from Bos)
Boston - Robinson, Thybulle, 23

So Boston absorbs Robinson into the Fournier TPE, Thybulle into a smaller TPE, and gets 23 for 2 future 2nd's.  Miami gets out of Lowry and Robinson while getting a solid player in Harris.  Philly gets out of Harris, but takes on Lowry and gets Tucker at the expense of Thybulle and 23.

Edit: And I totally get 3-team trades aren't common, especially for 3 contenders to all trade with each other, but I do think it is a trade that makes a fair amount of sense for all 3 teams.

Robinson’s salary is terrible and the Celtics should not need to trade 2nd round picks as part of it.  Bobby Marks was suggesting that moving Robinson would cost Miami a 1st and player.

If we were able to get Miami to swing 27 or a future 1st as part of the deal, would you do it? I think it would be pretty interesting. Leaves us with this as a team:

Smart / Pritchard
Brown / White / Thybulle
Tatum / Robinson / Nesmith
Horford / Grant / #23 (EJ Liddell?)
Rob / Theis

Would still have the MLE to try and beef up the bench wherever we see fit. It's interesting

It gives us a lot of flexibility in 60 days to make another trade in which we would not need to give up Smart or White. We could aggregate multiple prospects together with Robinson and Theis to get a higher end rotation player. I'd be targeting a 4-5 that could replace Horford

Are people honestly not aware that Robinson has the worst contract in the league and is unplayable? He makes enes kanter look like an all defensive player.

I don't find this to be true at all. My eye test doesn't rate him that badly, merely below average, and none of the advanced defensive metrics have him as that bad. Guys like McDermott, Terrence Ross and Patty Mills are all significantly worse at defence playing the exact same role, just off the top of my head. He started all year on the #1 seed in the East for a reason.

I think we all agree spoelstra is a very good coach. Probably top 3 in the league. Robinson played 90 total minutes the last two rounds against Boston and Philly combined (13 games). What is your explanation for that and committing to 70 million for a guy one of the best coaches in the game finds basically unplayable against playoff teams? Really pretty shocked by your take on this Gouki

Because Spo, like any, isn’t perfect. Playing Lowry & Strus so much more than Vincent, Martin & Robinson was a mistake.

Plus Robinson was in a shooting slump and is not a good defender, making a match-up with the C's who have 2 excellent offensive wings far more problematic.  That said, the 2 games Robinson got big minutes against Boston i.e. games 4 and 5, Robinson was +12 in 50 minutes (and shot better at 7 of 18 from 3), while in the 46 minutes he sat Miami was -45 in those 2 games. 

The rest of the series, Robinson did not shoot very well (i.e. 0 of 6 from 3 in the 3 games) and when he isn't shooting well he is difficult to play against a team like the Celtics.  Similarly, he did not shoot very well the last 3 games against the Hawks or the 3 games he played against the Sixers.

Robinson's value is as a shooter, but he is very streaky.  He is the type of guy though that when he catches fire can alter a game, and that makes him valuable as a bench player.

Even if we say this is all true, you want 70 million committed to a shooter that is lousy at defense?

The overall trade I proposed I'd be fine with it.

[LilRip]

So here is what I could come up with.

Miami - Harris, future 2nd (from Bos)
Philly - Lowry, Tucker, future 2nd (from Bos)
Boston - Robinson, Thybulle, 23

So Boston absorbs Robinson into the Fournier TPE, Thybulle into a smaller TPE, and gets 23 for 2 future 2nd's.  Miami gets out of Lowry and Robinson while getting a solid player in Harris.  Philly gets out of Harris, but takes on Lowry and gets Tucker at the expense of Thybulle and 23.

Edit: And I totally get 3-team trades aren't common, especially for 3 contenders to all trade with each other, but I do think it is a trade that makes a fair amount of sense for all 3 teams.

Robinson’s salary is terrible and the Celtics should not need to trade 2nd round picks as part of it.  Bobby Marks was suggesting that moving Robinson would cost Miami a 1st and player.

If we were able to get Miami to swing 27 or a future 1st as part of the deal, would you do it? I think it would be pretty interesting. Leaves us with this as a team:

Smart / Pritchard
Brown / White / Thybulle
Tatum / Robinson / Nesmith
Horford / Grant / #23 (EJ Liddell?)
Rob / Theis

Would still have the MLE to try and beef up the bench wherever we see fit. It's interesting

It gives us a lot of flexibility in 60 days to make another trade in which we would not need to give up Smart or White. We could aggregate multiple prospects together with Robinson and Theis to get a higher end rotation player. I'd be targeting a 4-5 that could replace Horford

Are people honestly not aware that Robinson has the worst contract in the league and is unplayable? He makes enes kanter look like an all defensive player.

I don't find this to be true at all. My eye test doesn't rate him that badly, merely below average, and none of the advanced defensive metrics have him as that bad. Guys like McDermott, Terrence Ross and Patty Mills are all significantly worse at defence playing the exact same role, just off the top of my head. He started all year on the #1 seed in the East for a reason.

I think we all agree spoelstra is a very good coach. Probably top 3 in the league. Robinson played 90 total minutes the last two rounds against Boston and Philly combined (13 games). What is your explanation for that and committing to 70 million for a guy one of the best coaches in the game finds basically unplayable against playoff teams? Really pretty shocked by your take on this Gouki

Because Spo, like any, isn’t perfect. Playing Lowry & Strus so much more than Vincent, Martin & Robinson was a mistake.

Plus Robinson was in a shooting slump and is not a good defender, making a match-up with the C's who have 2 excellent offensive wings far more problematic.  That said, the 2 games Robinson got big minutes against Boston i.e. games 4 and 5, Robinson was +12 in 50 minutes (and shot better at 7 of 18 from 3), while in the 46 minutes he sat Miami was -45 in those 2 games. 

The rest of the series, Robinson did not shoot very well (i.e. 0 of 6 from 3 in the 3 games) and when he isn't shooting well he is difficult to play against a team like the Celtics.  Similarly, he did not shoot very well the last 3 games against the Hawks or the 3 games he played against the Sixers.

Robinson's value is as a shooter, but he is very streaky.  He is the type of guy though that when he catches fire can alter a game, and that makes him valuable as a bench player.

Even if we say this is all true, you want 70 million committed to a shooter that is lousy at defense?

The overall trade I proposed I'd be fine with it.

Duncan Robinson + Thybulle + late 1st for essentially 2 2nd round picks? That doesn’t sound like a bad trade for the C’s unless they had someone else lined up for TPE. TPE’s aren’t as valuable as we think iirc so I’m ok with this.

[celticsclay]

So here is what I could come up with.

Miami - Harris, future 2nd (from Bos)
Philly - Lowry, Tucker, future 2nd (from Bos)
Boston - Robinson, Thybulle, 23

So Boston absorbs Robinson into the Fournier TPE, Thybulle into a smaller TPE, and gets 23 for 2 future 2nd's.  Miami gets out of Lowry and Robinson while getting a solid player in Harris.  Philly gets out of Harris, but takes on Lowry and gets Tucker at the expense of Thybulle and 23.

Edit: And I totally get 3-team trades aren't common, especially for 3 contenders to all trade with each other, but I do think it is a trade that makes a fair amount of sense for all 3 teams.

Robinson’s salary is terrible and the Celtics should not need to trade 2nd round picks as part of it.  Bobby Marks was suggesting that moving Robinson would cost Miami a 1st and player.

If we were able to get Miami to swing 27 or a future 1st as part of the deal, would you do it? I think it would be pretty interesting. Leaves us with this as a team:

Smart / Pritchard
Brown / White / Thybulle
Tatum / Robinson / Nesmith
Horford / Grant / #23 (EJ Liddell?)
Rob / Theis

Would still have the MLE to try and beef up the bench wherever we see fit. It's interesting

It gives us a lot of flexibility in 60 days to make another trade in which we would not need to give up Smart or White. We could aggregate multiple prospects together with Robinson and Theis to get a higher end rotation player. I'd be targeting a 4-5 that could replace Horford

Are people honestly not aware that Robinson has the worst contract in the league and is unplayable? He makes enes kanter look like an all defensive player.

I don't find this to be true at all. My eye test doesn't rate him that badly, merely below average, and none of the advanced defensive metrics have him as that bad. Guys like McDermott, Terrence Ross and Patty Mills are all significantly worse at defence playing the exact same role, just off the top of my head. He started all year on the #1 seed in the East for a reason.

I think we all agree spoelstra is a very good coach. Probably top 3 in the league. Robinson played 90 total minutes the last two rounds against Boston and Philly combined (13 games). What is your explanation for that and committing to 70 million for a guy one of the best coaches in the game finds basically unplayable against playoff teams? Really pretty shocked by your take on this Gouki

Because Spo, like any, isn’t perfect. Playing Lowry & Strus so much more than Vincent, Martin & Robinson was a mistake.

Plus Robinson was in a shooting slump and is not a good defender, making a match-up with the C's who have 2 excellent offensive wings far more problematic.  That said, the 2 games Robinson got big minutes against Boston i.e. games 4 and 5, Robinson was +12 in 50 minutes (and shot better at 7 of 18 from 3), while in the 46 minutes he sat Miami was -45 in those 2 games. 

The rest of the series, Robinson did not shoot very well (i.e. 0 of 6 from 3 in the 3 games) and when he isn't shooting well he is difficult to play against a team like the Celtics.  Similarly, he did not shoot very well the last 3 games against the Hawks or the 3 games he played against the Sixers.

Robinson's value is as a shooter, but he is very streaky.  He is the type of guy though that when he catches fire can alter a game, and that makes him valuable as a bench player.

Even if we say this is all true, you want 70 million committed to a shooter that is lousy at defense?

The overall trade I proposed I'd be fine with it.

Duncan Robinson + Thybulle + late 1st for essentially 2 2nd round picks? That doesn’t sound like a bad trade for the C’s unless they had someone else lined up for TPE. TPE’s aren’t as valuable as we think iirc so I’m ok with this.

It seems like there a number of teams that want to offload contracts to get cap space (we will probably see some trades tonight). I would much rather have nerlens noel at 18 million for two years than Robinson for 70 million over the next 3+ years. It really is an awful contract that could stop us from making moves for years to come.

Another name is monte Morris that is rumored to
Be getting squeezed out in Denver.

[celticsclay]

So here is what I could come up with.

Miami - Harris, future 2nd (from Bos)
Philly - Lowry, Tucker, future 2nd (from Bos)
Boston - Robinson, Thybulle, 23

So Boston absorbs Robinson into the Fournier TPE, Thybulle into a smaller TPE, and gets 23 for 2 future 2nd's.  Miami gets out of Lowry and Robinson while getting a solid player in Harris.  Philly gets out of Harris, but takes on Lowry and gets Tucker at the expense of Thybulle and 23.

Edit: And I totally get 3-team trades aren't common, especially for 3 contenders to all trade with each other, but I do think it is a trade that makes a fair amount of sense for all 3 teams.

Robinson’s salary is terrible and the Celtics should not need to trade 2nd round picks as part of it.  Bobby Marks was suggesting that moving Robinson would cost Miami a 1st and player.

If we were able to get Miami to swing 27 or a future 1st as part of the deal, would you do it? I think it would be pretty interesting. Leaves us with this as a team:

Smart / Pritchard
Brown / White / Thybulle
Tatum / Robinson / Nesmith
Horford / Grant / #23 (EJ Liddell?)
Rob / Theis

Would still have the MLE to try and beef up the bench wherever we see fit. It's interesting

It gives us a lot of flexibility in 60 days to make another trade in which we would not need to give up Smart or White. We could aggregate multiple prospects together with Robinson and Theis to get a higher end rotation player. I'd be targeting a 4-5 that could replace Horford

Are people honestly not aware that Robinson has the worst contract in the league and is unplayable? He makes enes kanter look like an all defensive player.

I don't find this to be true at all. My eye test doesn't rate him that badly, merely below average, and none of the advanced defensive metrics have him as that bad. Guys like McDermott, Terrence Ross and Patty Mills are all significantly worse at defence playing the exact same role, just off the top of my head. He started all year on the #1 seed in the East for a reason.

I think we all agree spoelstra is a very good coach. Probably top 3 in the league. Robinson played 90 total minutes the last two rounds against Boston and Philly combined (13 games). What is your explanation for that and committing to 70 million for a guy one of the best coaches in the game finds basically unplayable against playoff teams? Really pretty shocked by your take on this Gouki

Because Spo, like any, isn’t perfect. Playing Lowry & Strus so much more than Vincent, Martin & Robinson was a mistake.

Just playing devil's advocate

Us having one of the best defenses in the past however many years...

Makes it so difficult for Miami to play some of their guys...they would have been fine against 95% of the league..just the C's were so crazy.

They didn’t play him against Philly either.

[Moranis]

So here is what I could come up with.

Miami - Harris, future 2nd (from Bos)
Philly - Lowry, Tucker, future 2nd (from Bos)
Boston - Robinson, Thybulle, 23

So Boston absorbs Robinson into the Fournier TPE, Thybulle into a smaller TPE, and gets 23 for 2 future 2nd's.  Miami gets out of Lowry and Robinson while getting a solid player in Harris.  Philly gets out of Harris, but takes on Lowry and gets Tucker at the expense of Thybulle and 23.

Edit: And I totally get 3-team trades aren't common, especially for 3 contenders to all trade with each other, but I do think it is a trade that makes a fair amount of sense for all 3 teams.

Robinson’s salary is terrible and the Celtics should not need to trade 2nd round picks as part of it.  Bobby Marks was suggesting that moving Robinson would cost Miami a 1st and player.

If we were able to get Miami to swing 27 or a future 1st as part of the deal, would you do it? I think it would be pretty interesting. Leaves us with this as a team:

Smart / Pritchard
Brown / White / Thybulle
Tatum / Robinson / Nesmith
Horford / Grant / #23 (EJ Liddell?)
Rob / Theis

Would still have the MLE to try and beef up the bench wherever we see fit. It's interesting

It gives us a lot of flexibility in 60 days to make another trade in which we would not need to give up Smart or White. We could aggregate multiple prospects together with Robinson and Theis to get a higher end rotation player. I'd be targeting a 4-5 that could replace Horford

Are people honestly not aware that Robinson has the worst contract in the league and is unplayable? He makes enes kanter look like an all defensive player.

I don't find this to be true at all. My eye test doesn't rate him that badly, merely below average, and none of the advanced defensive metrics have him as that bad. Guys like McDermott, Terrence Ross and Patty Mills are all significantly worse at defence playing the exact same role, just off the top of my head. He started all year on the #1 seed in the East for a reason.

I think we all agree spoelstra is a very good coach. Probably top 3 in the league. Robinson played 90 total minutes the last two rounds against Boston and Philly combined (13 games). What is your explanation for that and committing to 70 million for a guy one of the best coaches in the game finds basically unplayable against playoff teams? Really pretty shocked by your take on this Gouki

Because Spo, like any, isn’t perfect. Playing Lowry & Strus so much more than Vincent, Martin & Robinson was a mistake.

Plus Robinson was in a shooting slump and is not a good defender, making a match-up with the C's who have 2 excellent offensive wings far more problematic.  That said, the 2 games Robinson got big minutes against Boston i.e. games 4 and 5, Robinson was +12 in 50 minutes (and shot better at 7 of 18 from 3), while in the 46 minutes he sat Miami was -45 in those 2 games. 

The rest of the series, Robinson did not shoot very well (i.e. 0 of 6 from 3 in the 3 games) and when he isn't shooting well he is difficult to play against a team like the Celtics.  Similarly, he did not shoot very well the last 3 games against the Hawks or the 3 games he played against the Sixers.

Robinson's value is as a shooter, but he is very streaky.  He is the type of guy though that when he catches fire can alter a game, and that makes him valuable as a bench player.

Even if we say this is all true, you want 70 million committed to a shooter that is lousy at defense?

The overall trade I proposed I'd be fine with it.

Duncan Robinson + Thybulle + late 1st for essentially 2 2nd round picks? That doesn’t sound like a bad trade for the C’s unless they had someone else lined up for TPE. TPE’s aren’t as valuable as we think iirc so I’m ok with this.

It seems like there a number of teams that want to offload contracts to get cap space (we will probably see some trades tonight). I would much rather have nerlens noel at 18 million for two years than Robinson for 70 million over the next 3+ years. It really is an awful contract that could stop us from making moves for years to come.

Another name is monte Morris that is rumored to
Be getting squeezed out in Denver.

Noel fits into the Thompson TPE.  No reason Boston couldn't do both. 

[liam]

I rather have Thybulle and 23 than Robinson.

[DefenseWinsChamps]

I rather have Thybulle and 23 than Robinson.

Me too

[Moranis]

I rather have Thybulle and 23 than Robinson.

Sure, but the trade as I constructed it required Robinson.  He is basically the payment for Philly giving us Thybulle and the 1st.

[BruceBanner18]

So here is what I could come up with.

Miami - Harris, future 2nd (from Bos)
Philly - Lowry, Tucker, future 2nd (from Bos)
Boston - Robinson, Thybulle, 23

So Boston absorbs Robinson into the Fournier TPE, Thybulle into a smaller TPE, and gets 23 for 2 future 2nd's.  Miami gets out of Lowry and Robinson while getting a solid player in Harris.  Philly gets out of Harris, but takes on Lowry and gets Tucker at the expense of Thybulle and 23.

Edit: And I totally get 3-team trades aren't common, especially for 3 contenders to all trade with each other, but I do think it is a trade that makes a fair amount of sense for all 3 teams.

Robinson’s salary is terrible and the Celtics should not need to trade 2nd round picks as part of it.  Bobby Marks was suggesting that moving Robinson would cost Miami a 1st and player.

If we were able to get Miami to swing 27 or a future 1st as part of the deal, would you do it? I think it would be pretty interesting. Leaves us with this as a team:

Smart / Pritchard
Brown / White / Thybulle
Tatum / Robinson / Nesmith
Horford / Grant / #23 (EJ Liddell?)
Rob / Theis

Would still have the MLE to try and beef up the bench wherever we see fit. It's interesting

It gives us a lot of flexibility in 60 days to make another trade in which we would not need to give up Smart or White. We could aggregate multiple prospects together with Robinson and Theis to get a higher end rotation player. I'd be targeting a 4-5 that could replace Horford

Are people honestly not aware that Robinson has the worst contract in the league and is unplayable? He makes enes kanter look like an all defensive player.

I don't find this to be true at all. My eye test doesn't rate him that badly, merely below average, and none of the advanced defensive metrics have him as that bad. Guys like McDermott, Terrence Ross and Patty Mills are all significantly worse at defence playing the exact same role, just off the top of my head. He started all year on the #1 seed in the East for a reason.

I think we all agree spoelstra is a very good coach. Probably top 3 in the league. Robinson played 90 total minutes the last two rounds against Boston and Philly combined (13 games). What is your explanation for that and committing to 70 million for a guy one of the best coaches in the game finds basically unplayable against playoff teams? Really pretty shocked by your take on this Gouki

Because Spo, like any, isn’t perfect. Playing Lowry & Strus so much more than Vincent, Martin & Robinson was a mistake.

Plus Robinson was in a shooting slump and is not a good defender, making a match-up with the C's who have 2 excellent offensive wings far more problematic.  That said, the 2 games Robinson got big minutes against Boston i.e. games 4 and 5, Robinson was +12 in 50 minutes (and shot better at 7 of 18 from 3), while in the 46 minutes he sat Miami was -45 in those 2 games. 

The rest of the series, Robinson did not shoot very well (i.e. 0 of 6 from 3 in the 3 games) and when he isn't shooting well he is difficult to play against a team like the Celtics.  Similarly, he did not shoot very well the last 3 games against the Hawks or the 3 games he played against the Sixers.

Robinson's value is as a shooter, but he is very streaky.  He is the type of guy though that when he catches fire can alter a game, and that makes him valuable as a bench player.

Even if we say this is all true, you want 70 million committed to a shooter that is lousy at defense?

Most designated shooters are lousy at defense and get paid in the same range. It's what shooters who specialize cost. Harris, Beasley, Bertran, Kinnard, McDermott off the top of my head

[liam]

So here is what I could come up with.

Miami - Harris, future 2nd (from Bos)
Philly - Lowry, Tucker, future 2nd (from Bos)
Boston - Robinson, Thybulle, 23

So Boston absorbs Robinson into the Fournier TPE, Thybulle into a smaller TPE, and gets 23 for 2 future 2nd's.  Miami gets out of Lowry and Robinson while getting a solid player in Harris.  Philly gets out of Harris, but takes on Lowry and gets Tucker at the expense of Thybulle and 23.

Edit: And I totally get 3-team trades aren't common, especially for 3 contenders to all trade with each other, but I do think it is a trade that makes a fair amount of sense for all 3 teams.

Robinson’s salary is terrible and the Celtics should not need to trade 2nd round picks as part of it.  Bobby Marks was suggesting that moving Robinson would cost Miami a 1st and player.

If we were able to get Miami to swing 27 or a future 1st as part of the deal, would you do it? I think it would be pretty interesting. Leaves us with this as a team:

Smart / Pritchard
Brown / White / Thybulle
Tatum / Robinson / Nesmith
Horford / Grant / #23 (EJ Liddell?)
Rob / Theis

Would still have the MLE to try and beef up the bench wherever we see fit. It's interesting

It gives us a lot of flexibility in 60 days to make another trade in which we would not need to give up Smart or White. We could aggregate multiple prospects together with Robinson and Theis to get a higher end rotation player. I'd be targeting a 4-5 that could replace Horford

Are people honestly not aware that Robinson has the worst contract in the league and is unplayable? He makes enes kanter look like an all defensive player.

I don't find this to be true at all. My eye test doesn't rate him that badly, merely below average, and none of the advanced defensive metrics have him as that bad. Guys like McDermott, Terrence Ross and Patty Mills are all significantly worse at defence playing the exact same role, just off the top of my head. He started all year on the #1 seed in the East for a reason.

I think we all agree spoelstra is a very good coach. Probably top 3 in the league. Robinson played 90 total minutes the last two rounds against Boston and Philly combined (13 games). What is your explanation for that and committing to 70 million for a guy one of the best coaches in the game finds basically unplayable against playoff teams? Really pretty shocked by your take on this Gouki

Because Spo, like any, isn’t perfect. Playing Lowry & Strus so much more than Vincent, Martin & Robinson was a mistake.

Plus Robinson was in a shooting slump and is not a good defender, making a match-up with the C's who have 2 excellent offensive wings far more problematic.  That said, the 2 games Robinson got big minutes against Boston i.e. games 4 and 5, Robinson was +12 in 50 minutes (and shot better at 7 of 18 from 3), while in the 46 minutes he sat Miami was -45 in those 2 games. 

The rest of the series, Robinson did not shoot very well (i.e. 0 of 6 from 3 in the 3 games) and when he isn't shooting well he is difficult to play against a team like the Celtics.  Similarly, he did not shoot very well the last 3 games against the Hawks or the 3 games he played against the Sixers.

Robinson's value is as a shooter, but he is very streaky.  He is the type of guy though that when he catches fire can alter a game, and that makes him valuable as a bench player.

Even if we say this is all true, you want 70 million committed to a shooter that is lousy at defense?

Most designated shooters are lousy at defense and get paid in the same range. It's what shooters who specialize cost. Harris, Beasley, Bertran, Kinnard, McDermott off the top of my head

What makes them designated shooters is that they can't do anything else but there are lots of shooters that can do other things.