BR Trade Idea: Ayton to Boston

[gouki88]

What an utterly awful proposal. Expect nothing less from B/R though.

I would probably not trade Rob for Ayton straight up, let alone Rob and our 6th man for Ayton. Yuck

[DefenseWinsChamps]

Does Deandre Ayton have an all-defensive second team on his resume?

[Atzar]

Concerned about Ayton’s motor.  He should be way more dominant than he is.  And I don’t buy the “Phoenix doesn’t use him right” excuse either.  He’s just not aggressive at all.  Rather be a roleplayer than a star.

Not trading Rob for a roleplayer. 

[RPGenerate]

What an utterly awful proposal. Expect nothing less from B/R though.

I would probably not trade Rob for Ayton straight up, let alone Rob and our 6th man for Ayton. Yuck

Let's say you're Brad, and the entire medical staff comes up to you and says "Unfortunately we believe that Rob will be dealing with debilitating injuries for the rest of his career". Would you still think this is a bad trade? Maybe I'm a bit too high on Ayton, but I think you would need to at least consider it. He could be that elusive 3rd star, while also securing our big man for the future.

[gouki88]

What an utterly awful proposal. Expect nothing less from B/R though.

I would probably not trade Rob for Ayton straight up, let alone Rob and our 6th man for Ayton. Yuck

Let's say you're Brad, and the entire medical staff comes up to you and says "Unfortunately we believe that Rob will be dealing with debilitating injuries for the rest of his career". Would you still think this is a bad trade? Maybe I'm a bit too high on Ayton, but I think you would need to at least consider it. He could be that elusive 3rd star, while also securing our big man for the future.

I think you are too high on Ayton. He can't pass, he's a mediocre defender, and he simply refuses to shoot the ball enough. His highest FGAs was 14.9 when he played half a season on a below .500 team.

In a vacuum I don't mind him. He's super efficient (almost as efficient as Rob) and is one of the elite rebounders in the league. But I just do not think he has the mentality required to be a third star, and if he is demanding max money, as I've seen reported, then I think he's mad.

I think Williams is the better player due to his defence and passing, and he would cost a fraction of the money that Ayton wants. Sure, if his condition was hypothetically debilitating, it would suck. But owing Rob $48m over the next 4 seasons is fine by me, even if he's limited to 25mpg or 60 games a season. Over the last two seasons, Ayton hasn't been much healthier than Rob.

[liam]

What an utterly awful proposal. Expect nothing less from B/R though.

I would probably not trade Rob for Ayton straight up, let alone Rob and our 6th man for Ayton. Yuck

Let's say you're Brad, and the entire medical staff comes up to you and says "Unfortunately we believe that Rob will be dealing with debilitating injuries for the rest of his career". Would you still think this is a bad trade? Maybe I'm a bit too high on Ayton, but I think you would need to at least consider it. He could be that elusive 3rd star, while also securing our big man for the future.

Phonex medical staff would catch something like that. I'd rather have TIMELORD over Ayton on fit alone.

[Moranis]

What an utterly awful proposal. Expect nothing less from B/R though.

I would probably not trade Rob for Ayton straight up, let alone Rob and our 6th man for Ayton. Yuck

Let's say you're Brad, and the entire medical staff comes up to you and says "Unfortunately we believe that Rob will be dealing with debilitating injuries for the rest of his career". Would you still think this is a bad trade? Maybe I'm a bit too high on Ayton, but I think you would need to at least consider it. He could be that elusive 3rd star, while also securing our big man for the future.

I think you are too high on Ayton. He can't pass, he's a mediocre defender, and he simply refuses to shoot the ball enough. His highest FGAs was 14.9 when he played half a season on a below .500 team.

In a vacuum I don't mind him. He's super efficient (almost as efficient as Rob) and is one of the elite rebounders in the league. But I just do not think he has the mentality required to be a third star, and if he is demanding max money, as I've seen reported, then I think he's mad.

I think Williams is the better player due to his defence and passing, and he would cost a fraction of the money that Ayton wants. Sure, if his condition was hypothetically debilitating, it would suck. But owing Rob $48m over the next 4 seasons is fine by me, even if he's limited to 25mpg or 60 games a season. Over the last two seasons, Ayton hasn't been much healthier than Rob.

How many shots do you want your 3rd star to take?  I mean someone like Klay Thompson, who has been the 2nd option a lot, only averages around 17 attempts in his prime years.  He only had 18 this year in his microwave role and was under 17 in the playoffs as the 2nd option, while Wiggins was right around 14 as the 3rd option.  Russell for the Wolves was at 15 as the 3rd option for the Wolves.  And I used those guys because they've all been all stars.   

[gouki88]

What an utterly awful proposal. Expect nothing less from B/R though.

I would probably not trade Rob for Ayton straight up, let alone Rob and our 6th man for Ayton. Yuck

Let's say you're Brad, and the entire medical staff comes up to you and says "Unfortunately we believe that Rob will be dealing with debilitating injuries for the rest of his career". Would you still think this is a bad trade? Maybe I'm a bit too high on Ayton, but I think you would need to at least consider it. He could be that elusive 3rd star, while also securing our big man for the future.

I think you are too high on Ayton. He can't pass, he's a mediocre defender, and he simply refuses to shoot the ball enough. His highest FGAs was 14.9 when he played half a season on a below .500 team.

In a vacuum I don't mind him. He's super efficient (almost as efficient as Rob) and is one of the elite rebounders in the league. But I just do not think he has the mentality required to be a third star, and if he is demanding max money, as I've seen reported, then I think he's mad.

I think Williams is the better player due to his defence and passing, and he would cost a fraction of the money that Ayton wants. Sure, if his condition was hypothetically debilitating, it would suck. But owing Rob $48m over the next 4 seasons is fine by me, even if he's limited to 25mpg or 60 games a season. Over the last two seasons, Ayton hasn't been much healthier than Rob.

How many shots do you want your 3rd star to take?  I mean someone like Klay Thompson, who has been the 2nd option a lot, only averages around 17 attempts in his prime years.  He only had 18 this year in his microwave role and was under 17 in the playoffs as the 2nd option, while Wiggins was right around 14 as the 3rd option.  Russell for the Wolves was at 15 as the 3rd option for the Wolves.  And I used those guys because they've all been all stars.   

It's relative to what they provide on offence beyond scoring. Ayton provides absolutely nothing as a passer, and is one of the most pathetic free throw generators in the entire league compared to what he should be capable of. He either needs to score more (ideally from drawing fouls), improve his passing, or go back to his old offensive rebounding numbers.

[GreenlyGreeny]

What an utterly awful proposal. Expect nothing less from B/R though.

I would probably not trade Rob for Ayton straight up, let alone Rob and our 6th man for Ayton. Yuck

I’m 100% with you on this.

[Vermont Green]

I think Rob Williams gets over-rated here in many cases.  Ayton was 17 pts / 10 rebs last season, pretty consistent with his career average.  RWill got to 10 pts for the first time last season.  Rob may have better defensive quickness but Ayton is a better player and more durable.

Don't see this trade though.  It would be a S&T which as mentioned would hard cap us and we are already over the cap.  We can't do a sign and trade unless we do a radical salary dump.  Short of a major salary dump, we cannot sign and trade.  It is not allowed if we are over the tax cap.

He is a RFA and his QO is about $16.4M.  That is already a pretty big number.  I would think that PHO will make that qualifying offer.  We'll see what other offers he gets.  There are not a lot of teams that are going to have cap space to make $20M+ offers.

I wouldn't be worried about the hard cap if I had faith in my team to start the season. BS shouldn't worry about it. Few teams have must make moves in season.

If I'm the Suns I don't want to play the QO game. Today's NBA could see a player bank on himself and leave and they get maybe a TPE. They should pay him.

He is a RFA so the Suns first offer the QO and this allows them to match any other offer.  If they don't offer a QO, I think there are restrictions on what they can offer but the big thing is they then have no right to match.  Ayton can just sign where he wants.  It is really not much of a game.  They offer the QO, Ayton goes out and finds the best offer, PHO matches if they want.  Or they can try to arrange a sign and trade for him with the team that has made the offer and get back players and/or a TPE.  But no QO, no right to match.  And I am not 100% sure but I think no QO, no sign and trade.

[slamtheking]

only appeal of Ayton is that he's able to play more games than Timelord.  other than that, advantage TL.

[Phantom255x]

Concerned about Ayton’s motor.  He should be way more dominant than he is.  And I don’t buy the “Phoenix doesn’t use him right” excuse either.  He’s just not aggressive at all.  Rather be a roleplayer than a star.

Not trading Rob for a roleplayer.

Yeah his body language to me just seems off a lot of times when things aren't going well. Also, Monty Williams is a great coach and a players coach, so when you hear Ayton and Monty butting heads during the season and during the Mavs series, that concerns me too.

[Moranis]

What an utterly awful proposal. Expect nothing less from B/R though.

I would probably not trade Rob for Ayton straight up, let alone Rob and our 6th man for Ayton. Yuck

Let's say you're Brad, and the entire medical staff comes up to you and says "Unfortunately we believe that Rob will be dealing with debilitating injuries for the rest of his career". Would you still think this is a bad trade? Maybe I'm a bit too high on Ayton, but I think you would need to at least consider it. He could be that elusive 3rd star, while also securing our big man for the future.

I think you are too high on Ayton. He can't pass, he's a mediocre defender, and he simply refuses to shoot the ball enough. His highest FGAs was 14.9 when he played half a season on a below .500 team.

In a vacuum I don't mind him. He's super efficient (almost as efficient as Rob) and is one of the elite rebounders in the league. But I just do not think he has the mentality required to be a third star, and if he is demanding max money, as I've seen reported, then I think he's mad.

I think Williams is the better player due to his defence and passing, and he would cost a fraction of the money that Ayton wants. Sure, if his condition was hypothetically debilitating, it would suck. But owing Rob $48m over the next 4 seasons is fine by me, even if he's limited to 25mpg or 60 games a season. Over the last two seasons, Ayton hasn't been much healthier than Rob.

How many shots do you want your 3rd star to take?  I mean someone like Klay Thompson, who has been the 2nd option a lot, only averages around 17 attempts in his prime years.  He only had 18 this year in his microwave role and was under 17 in the playoffs as the 2nd option, while Wiggins was right around 14 as the 3rd option.  Russell for the Wolves was at 15 as the 3rd option for the Wolves.  And I used those guys because they've all been all stars.   

It's relative to what they provide on offence beyond scoring. Ayton provides absolutely nothing as a passer, and is one of the most pathetic free throw generators in the entire league compared to what he should be capable of. He either needs to score more (ideally from drawing fouls), improve his passing, or go back to his old offensive rebounding numbers.

He is a 3rd player for a reason.  Those guys aren't complete players except in very rare circumstances (a guy like Wiggins is much more the exception, but he is also a pretty passive player).  You seem to be expecting Ayton to have 1st or 2nd player skills, yet realize he is a 3rd guy.  3rd guys are most typically guys like Tobias Harris i.e. ok scorers but very flawed overall or are defense guys with little offense but by shear playing time are the 3rd offensive option i.e. Bam, Gobert, etc. (Smart is probably in this category as well, though as a ball handler he isn't the same as the big guys). 

Ayton is who he is at this point, which is a 17/10 player with a nice efficiency.  As a 3rd option that is fine.  Maybe you get a little growth still in a different system and he is more like a 2.5 type player (like Wiggins), but by and large you are going to get a pretty consistent stat line from Ayton.  Now the real question is, is that type of player worth 30+ million a year.  That is a much more difficult question to answer.  I'm not sure he is, but at least you know what you are getting from him.

[gouki88]

What an utterly awful proposal. Expect nothing less from B/R though.

I would probably not trade Rob for Ayton straight up, let alone Rob and our 6th man for Ayton. Yuck

Let's say you're Brad, and the entire medical staff comes up to you and says "Unfortunately we believe that Rob will be dealing with debilitating injuries for the rest of his career". Would you still think this is a bad trade? Maybe I'm a bit too high on Ayton, but I think you would need to at least consider it. He could be that elusive 3rd star, while also securing our big man for the future.

I think you are too high on Ayton. He can't pass, he's a mediocre defender, and he simply refuses to shoot the ball enough. His highest FGAs was 14.9 when he played half a season on a below .500 team.

In a vacuum I don't mind him. He's super efficient (almost as efficient as Rob) and is one of the elite rebounders in the league. But I just do not think he has the mentality required to be a third star, and if he is demanding max money, as I've seen reported, then I think he's mad.

I think Williams is the better player due to his defence and passing, and he would cost a fraction of the money that Ayton wants. Sure, if his condition was hypothetically debilitating, it would suck. But owing Rob $48m over the next 4 seasons is fine by me, even if he's limited to 25mpg or 60 games a season. Over the last two seasons, Ayton hasn't been much healthier than Rob.

How many shots do you want your 3rd star to take?  I mean someone like Klay Thompson, who has been the 2nd option a lot, only averages around 17 attempts in his prime years.  He only had 18 this year in his microwave role and was under 17 in the playoffs as the 2nd option, while Wiggins was right around 14 as the 3rd option.  Russell for the Wolves was at 15 as the 3rd option for the Wolves.  And I used those guys because they've all been all stars.   

It's relative to what they provide on offence beyond scoring. Ayton provides absolutely nothing as a passer, and is one of the most pathetic free throw generators in the entire league compared to what he should be capable of. He either needs to score more (ideally from drawing fouls), improve his passing, or go back to his old offensive rebounding numbers.

He is a 3rd player for a reason.  Those guys aren't complete players except in very rare circumstances (a guy like Wiggins is much more the exception, but he is also a pretty passive player).  You seem to be expecting Ayton to have 1st or 2nd player skills, yet realize he is a 3rd guy.  3rd guys are most typically guys like Tobias Harris i.e. ok scorers but very flawed overall or are defense guys with little offense but by shear playing time are the 3rd offensive option i.e. Bam, Gobert, etc. (Smart is probably in this category as well, though as a ball handler he isn't the same as the big guys). 

Ayton is who he is at this point, which is a 17/10 player with a nice efficiency.  As a 3rd option that is fine.  Maybe you get a little growth still in a different system and he is more like a 2.5 type player (like Wiggins), but by and large you are going to get a pretty consistent stat line from Ayton.  Now the real question is, is that type of player worth 30+ million a year.  That is a much more difficult question to answer.  I'm not sure he is, but at least you know what you are getting from him.

But that is the issue - he has literally all the tools to be an Embiid-like physical force on offence, yet chooses not to.

[Indocelts]

No, we need pieces to trade for Beal as our 1st priority.