Poll

Of the 4 American sports, who is the greatest G.O.A.T?

Michael Jordan - NBA
4 (13.3%)
Tom Brady - NFL
11 (36.7%)
Babe Ruth - MLB
8 (26.7%)
Wayne Gretzky - NHL
7 (23.3%)

Total Members Voted: 29

Author Topic: Who is The Greatest G.O.A.T?  (Read 22653 times)

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Re: Who is The Greatest G.O.A.T?
« Reply #60 on: October 12, 2021, 12:46:40 PM »

Offline ETNCeltics

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I'm not a Pats nor a Bucs fan, but I'd absolutely have Brady at or near the top. Look at those Pats rosters that won titles. Many of them weren't that great. They won because of Brady and Belichick. Same with the Bucs, they had a nice roster last year, but they had done jack squat then Brady shows up and they're hoisting trophies. Position or no, Rice, Lawrence Taylor, Reggie White, Jim Brown, none of those guys lifted their team to a truckload of titles the way Brady did.

I'd probably put Ruth 1st because his numbers are so much better than anyone of his era (in spite of spending the early part of his career as a pitcher), Gretsky, Brady, then Jordan.

Re: Who is The Greatest G.O.A.T?
« Reply #61 on: October 12, 2021, 01:15:14 PM »

Offline boscel33

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Babe is the GOAT OF GOATs

Revolutionized the game after going 94-46 with a 2.28 era as a pitcher.

I didn’t watch much hockey in Gretzky’s era — was he really better than Bobby Orr?

No he wasn't.  Orr did things as a defenseman that no one had ever done.  Gretzky, although great, was really just a scorer.  He didn't play D, He didn't check, he didn't fight, he hung out and let some one pass him the puck so he could score.  Heck, if I have to take a player off of those Edmonton teams, I might go Messier.  He was a complete player.

That said, I go Babe, Jordan, Brady, Gretzky, but then I replace Jordan with Russell too.

You don’t watch much hockey, I take it.  He was a heck of a lot more than a finisher.  He’s both the best scorer and best passer in NHL history.  He was a better creator than he was a scorer.

For perspective, he has more assists than any other player has points (goals and assists combined).  He has 960 more points than Messier, and Messier is #3 all-time.

Gretzky is like Durant and Magic combined.

We'll agree to disagree.  I've been watching hockey since the 70 Stanley Cup Finals.  You can say, I've been watching it for a long time, and yes, I'll still take Messier because of his all around game.
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Re: Who is The Greatest G.O.A.T?
« Reply #62 on: October 12, 2021, 01:37:25 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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Just want to quote something from the OP....hah, hah, yes, I am quoting myself...

Quote
1. Tom Brady
2. Babe Ruth
3. Michael Jordan
4. Wayne Gretzky

But if I am being honest, I am not sure I feel good about that order. There are 16 combos of the 4 GOATs and I think an argument could be made that all 16 combos are the right one.

Looking at the poll results thus far and the replies, man, that comment couldn't have been more spot on. The comments regarding if those four really are the GOATs and how they compare to their contemporaries and each other have been pretty much all over the place.

I think it's a great "at the pub after a Boston Celtics victory" talking subject.

After reading everything here, I rethought my list I think I will go:

1A. Tom Brady
1B. Wayne Gretzky
3. Babe Ruth
4. Michael Jordan.

Gretzky's dominance in the NHL record books is ridiculous and in his prime it elevated him to unreal heights.

(I looked it up, he led the league in assists for 13 straight years...13 STRAIGHT YEARS!!!! The dude was hanging up 200 point seasons like drying laundry and players nowadays struggle to break 100 points in a year to lead the league.)

Babe I brought down some due to the lack of teams and lack of player diversity that may have changed his dominance. That last part is not his fault. It was a terribly racist rule in baseball but it did severely limit his competition.

Strangely, the best athlete of the bunch is MJ, but in the middle of his dominance he decided to take either an "I am burnt out" two year break and went to suck at minor league baseball for that time or a two year, hush, hush, suspension because maybe there were some gambling issues the league buried. Conspiracy theory? Yes, but the rumors of it were very real. Either way, leaving those two years, to me hurts his comparison to the other GOATs though it in no way diminishes his title as NBA GOAT.

Re: Who is The Greatest G.O.A.T?
« Reply #63 on: October 12, 2021, 01:42:48 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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Also, how lucky are Boston fans to have not only the NFL GOAT and the MLB GOAT for his formative years as a pitcher, but legit GOAT candidates in other sports like Russell and Bird in the NBA, Orr in the NHL, and Ted Williams in MLB( with maybe the best pitcher ever in Clemens, steroids or not).

Re: Who is The Greatest G.O.A.T?
« Reply #64 on: October 12, 2021, 02:28:55 PM »

Offline liam

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Also, how lucky are Boston fans to have not only the NFL GOAT and the MLB GOAT for his formative years as a pitcher, but legit GOAT candidates in other sports like Russell and Bird in the NBA, Orr in the NHL, and Ted Williams in MLB( with maybe the best pitcher ever in Clemens, steroids or not).

Boston is the GOAT of sports towns!!!!

Re: Who is The Greatest G.O.A.T?
« Reply #65 on: October 12, 2021, 03:39:24 PM »

Online Moranis

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Also, how lucky are Boston fans to have not only the NFL GOAT and the MLB GOAT for his formative years as a pitcher, but legit GOAT candidates in other sports like Russell and Bird in the NBA, Orr in the NHL, and Ted Williams in MLB( with maybe the best pitcher ever in Clemens, steroids or not).

Boston is the GOAT of sports towns!!!!
I mean it is clearly Cleveland with Jim Brown and Lebron James.  ;)

EDIT: And baseball you get Cy Young, who was obviously so good they named the pitching award after him.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2021, 04:07:50 PM by Moranis »
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Re: Who is The Greatest G.O.A.T?
« Reply #66 on: October 12, 2021, 04:28:02 PM »

Offline Vermont Green

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It is funny, Brady is kind of more like Russell than anything.  Brady in any given season, was not seen as the best at his position.  He just won the most, like Russell.  It is tough to compare over different sports.

I am a hockey guy and the thing about Gretzky, he may not even have been as good as Mario Lemieux.  Gretzky played longer and on better teams but Lemieux was the best I saw from that era.

Ruth relative to his peers was way better than anyone else.  Same for Jordan but maybe not to the same extent as Ruth.

Re: Who is The Greatest G.O.A.T?
« Reply #67 on: October 12, 2021, 06:36:54 PM »

Offline tstorey_97

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I guess I agree with the breakdown.

Watching Orr when he came into the NHL, people couldn't find words to describe him. He could drop any NHL player any time he wanted. No one could stop him...that statue of Orr scoring the winning goal against the hapless Blues?

He took the puck from behind his own net and cut through the other 9 players and dusted the goal tender. There simply wasn't any effort.

Stats are important, but Jesus, 18 year old Bobby Orr in his third NHL game just sticking past and making Rocket Richard (HOF) look like a punter. The Bruins win nothing without Bobby.

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Re: Who is The Greatest G.O.A.T?
« Reply #68 on: October 14, 2021, 01:58:32 AM »

Offline GreenlyGreeny

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I am a hockey guy and the thing about Gretzky, he may not even have been as good as Mario Lemieux.  Gretzky played longer and on better teams but Lemieux was the best I saw from that era.

This is a good point. A lot of folks don’t realize that Lemieux still owns the record of highest career points per game average (just over 2.0) and highest goals per game avaerge (just shy of 1.0), so the dude basically averaged one goal and one assist per game for his career, which is probably like averaging 25-30 PPG and 10 APG in NBA:

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/49890-mario-lemieux-vs-wayne-gretzky-six-reasons-why-66-is-greater-than-99

Re: Who is The Greatest G.O.A.T?
« Reply #69 on: October 14, 2021, 08:39:16 AM »

Online Moranis

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I am a hockey guy and the thing about Gretzky, he may not even have been as good as Mario Lemieux.  Gretzky played longer and on better teams but Lemieux was the best I saw from that era.

This is a good point. A lot of folks don’t realize that Lemieux still owns the record of highest career points per game average (just over 2.0) and highest goals per game avaerge (just shy of 1.0), so the dude basically averaged one goal and one assist per game for his career, which is probably like averaging 25-30 PPG and 10 APG in NBA:

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/49890-mario-lemieux-vs-wayne-gretzky-six-reasons-why-66-is-greater-than-99
Mario played 915 games and scored 690 goals.  That isn't close to 1 a game.  It is 0.754 a game, which is still awesome as it is 2nd all time to Mike Bossy's 0.762 and just ahead of Cy Denneny's 0.751.  Gretzky is 7th all time at 0.601, though Ovechkin is just ahead of him and still active so could drop behind Gretzky.

Speaking of Ovechkin he has led the league in goals per game 8 times (same as Bobby Hull), which far exceeds Gretzky's 3 or Mario's 6.  His numbers are way down, but scoring in hockey in general is way down in this era. 
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Re: Who is The Greatest G.O.A.T?
« Reply #70 on: October 14, 2021, 09:16:12 AM »

Online jambr380

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Also, how lucky are Boston fans to have not only the NFL GOAT and the MLB GOAT for his formative years as a pitcher, but legit GOAT candidates in other sports like Russell and Bird in the NBA, Orr in the NHL, and Ted Williams in MLB( with maybe the best pitcher ever in Clemens, steroids or not).

I have Pedro over Clemens - at least in terms of peak- but still agree with your point. Boston is ridiculous when it comes to talent and success.

Re: Who is The Greatest G.O.A.T?
« Reply #71 on: October 14, 2021, 05:00:47 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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Also, how lucky are Boston fans to have not only the NFL GOAT and the MLB GOAT for his formative years as a pitcher, but legit GOAT candidates in other sports like Russell and Bird in the NBA, Orr in the NHL, and Ted Williams in MLB( with maybe the best pitcher ever in Clemens, steroids or not).

I have Pedro over Clemens - at least in terms of peak- but still agree with your point. Boston is ridiculous when it comes to talent and success.

Boston has outsized impact, for sure.

My guess is that if you just took players from Boston and LA and put them up against every other franchise from any other city, we’d do okay.

NBA, I think they win.  Baseball they’d have a hell of a shot (Pedro, Clemens, Koufax, Kershaw).  Hockey is tough, but a lineup with Gretzky, Neely, Orr and Bourque is killer.  Football would at least make it a game.


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Re: Who is The Greatest G.O.A.T?
« Reply #72 on: October 14, 2021, 05:40:12 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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Also, how lucky are Boston fans to have not only the NFL GOAT and the MLB GOAT for his formative years as a pitcher, but legit GOAT candidates in other sports like Russell and Bird in the NBA, Orr in the NHL, and Ted Williams in MLB( with maybe the best pitcher ever in Clemens, steroids or not).

I have Pedro over Clemens - at least in terms of peak- but still agree with your point. Boston is ridiculous when it comes to talent and success.

Boston has outsized impact, for sure.

My guess is that if you just took players from Boston and LA and put them up against every other franchise from any other city, we’d do okay.

NBA, I think they win.  Baseball they’d have a hell of a shot (Pedro, Clemens, Koufax, Kershaw).  Hockey is tough, but a lineup with Gretzky, Neely, Orr and Bourque is killer.  Football would at least make it a game.
Move Gretzky to LW and put Esposito at center and that is one dominant 1st line.

Re: Who is The Greatest G.O.A.T?
« Reply #73 on: October 14, 2021, 06:52:04 PM »

Offline Ed Monix

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This topic has given me an interesting idea.

Who’s in your greatest basketball starting five…of non-basketball sporting stars?

C   Tyson Fury (Boxing)
PF  Matt Jones (NFL)
SF  Julius Peppers (NFL)
SG  Tony Gonzalez (NFL)
PG  Phil Heath (Bodybuilding)
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Career lowlight: traded for a washing machine

Re: Who is The Greatest G.O.A.T?
« Reply #74 on: October 14, 2021, 07:49:23 PM »

Offline gouki88

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This topic has given me an interesting idea.

Who’s in your greatest basketball starting five…of non-basketball sporting stars?

C   Tyson Fury (Boxing)
PF  Matt Jones (NFL)
SF  Julius Peppers (NFL)
SG  Tony Gonzalez (NFL)
PG  Phil Heath (Bodybuilding)
PG: Cristiano Ronaldo (soccer)
SG: Randy Moss (NFL)
SF: Antonio Gates (NFL)
PF: Zdeno Chara (NHL)
C: Dmitrij Muserskiy (volleyball)
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PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
SG: Joe Dumars (92-93) / Jeff Hornacek (91-92) / Jerry Stackhouse (00-01)
SF: Brandon Roy (08-09) / Walter Davis (78-79)
PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)