Author Topic: Simone Biles  (Read 45374 times)

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Re: Simone Biles
« Reply #165 on: August 03, 2021, 01:12:16 PM »

Offline Ogaju

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I notice a trend in this thread. Does anyone else notice the trend. I won’t disclose my conclusions but it really is not very credible to discredit individuals with bona fide mental health injuries. There is a lot of that going on here against Simone Biles.

Re: Simone Biles
« Reply #166 on: August 03, 2021, 01:22:45 PM »

Offline RJ87

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I notice a trend in this thread. Does anyone else notice the trend. I won’t disclose my conclusions but it really is not very credible to discredit individuals with bona fide mental health injuries. There is a lot of that going on here against Simone Biles.

Lol. There's definitely a trend. I've had to uh... restrain myself from stating my own observations in this thread.
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Re: Simone Biles
« Reply #167 on: August 03, 2021, 01:24:22 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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Is it fair to ask if somebody with concerns about her mental health and worries about crushing expectations should be marketing herself as the GOAT?  Doesn’t that just bring on further expectations?  She chose that marketing, rather than deflecting and showing humility. Is there a reason that people cannot criticize her for that?

Look at Conor McGregor. He’s somebody else who has marked it himself as the GOAT.  Recently, after losing due to a significant physical injury, he was loudly ridiculed.

Biles herself indicated that this was at least in part about pressure.  The ability to handle that pressure is a part of and athletes makeup, no different than an inability to stay physically healthy.  We regularly criticize athletes who cannot get it done on the big stage, or who fade under the spotlight. Did those athletes just miss an opportunity to suggest that their failings were due to mental health?


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Re: Simone Biles
« Reply #168 on: August 03, 2021, 09:03:33 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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I don't think there are many who.post on this board that have more personal experience with mental illness, how it affects people and how crippling it can be. The lack of understanding and empathy for how much Simone Biles could be suffering is disturbing.

And let me just say, young people don't handle and manage mental health issues very well. It usually takes decades or more of suffering before being able to stop those issues from affecting your ability to be your best you. Lots of times, people don't get to the point of managing it.

Re: Simone Biles
« Reply #169 on: August 03, 2021, 09:21:08 PM »

Kiorrik

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Didn't read the whole topic.

But MJ in his prime took a huge break too.

Re: Simone Biles
« Reply #170 on: August 03, 2021, 11:17:32 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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Is it fair to ask if somebody with concerns about her mental health and worries about crushing expectations should be marketing herself as the GOAT?  Doesn’t that just bring on further expectations?  She chose that marketing, rather than deflecting and showing humility. Is there a reason that people cannot criticize her for that?
No it's not fair. It's not remotely fair. Whether she has mental illness or not should have zero bearing on how she markets herself. Is  she supposed to admit to herself she isn't better than others simply because she has an illness? Mentally ill people should what, show humility and admit they aren't as good as other people because of PTSD or depression or bi-polar disorder or a personality disorder?

Biles is suffering from PTSD from her sexual assault. The affects of PTSD can be trigger by anything and can become crippling. She was overcome by this and was honest and up front about her issues. This setback in no way diminishes her accomplishments, the same way other physical ailments and missed time wouldn't diminish any other superstar athlete's accomplishments and legacy.

If anything, I hold her accomplishments in even higher regard knowing she had to overcome her issues to perform.

So, you want to criticize her, it's a free country. I just think it's a really bad look.

Re: Simone Biles
« Reply #171 on: August 03, 2021, 11:18:06 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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Is it fair to ask if somebody with concerns about her mental health and worries about crushing expectations should be marketing herself as the GOAT?  Doesn’t that just bring on further expectations?  She chose that marketing, rather than deflecting and showing humility. Is there a reason that people cannot criticize her for that?
No it's not fair. It's not remotely fair. Whether she has mental illness or not should have zero bearing on how she markets herself. Is  she supposed to admit to herself she isn't better than others simply because she has an illness? Mentally ill people should what, show humility and admit they aren't as good as other people because of PTSD or depression or bi-polar disorder or a personality disorder?

Biles is suffering from PTSD from her sexual assault. The affects of PTSD can be triggered by anything(especially extremely stressful situations and events) and can become crippling. She was overcome by this and was honest and up front about her issues. That should be commended.

This setback in no way diminishes her accomplishments, the same way other physical ailments and missed time wouldn't diminish any other superstar athlete's accomplishments and legacy.

If anything, I hold her accomplishments in even higher regard knowing she had to overcome her issues to perform.

So, you want to criticize her, it's a free country. I just think it's a really bad look and a seriously bad take. But to each their own.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2021, 12:34:40 AM by nickagneta »

Re: Simone Biles
« Reply #172 on: August 04, 2021, 07:50:55 AM »

Offline Roy H.

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Is it fair to ask if somebody with concerns about her mental health and worries about crushing expectations should be marketing herself as the GOAT?  Doesn’t that just bring on further expectations?  She chose that marketing, rather than deflecting and showing humility. Is there a reason that people cannot criticize her for that?
No it's not fair. It's not remotely fair. Whether she has mental illness or not should have zero bearing on how she markets herself. Is  she supposed to admit to herself she isn't better than others simply because she has an illness? Mentally ill people should what, show humility and admit they aren't as good as other people because of PTSD or depression or bi-polar disorder or a personality disorder?

Biles is suffering from PTSD from her sexual assault. The affects of PTSD can be triggered by anything(especially extremely stressful situations and events) and can become crippling. She was overcome by this and was honest and up front about her issues. That should be commended.

This setback in no way diminishes her accomplishments, the same way other physical ailments and missed time wouldn't diminish any other superstar athlete's accomplishments and legacy.

If anything, I hold her accomplishments in even higher regard knowing she had to overcome her issues to perform.

So, you want to criticize her, it's a free country. I just think it's a really bad look and a seriously bad take. But to each their own.

If she can’t perform due to crushing expectations, she shouldn’t invite those expectations upon herself.  She’s purposefully making her own “mental illness” worse.  It’s not much different than a bi-polar person who mixes medication with alcohol. 

What are you basing a PTSD diagnosis on?  That’s nothing that she’s cited that I’m aware of.  She cited lack of mental focus, distraction, and crushing expectations.


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Re: Simone Biles
« Reply #173 on: August 04, 2021, 11:16:01 AM »

Offline CptZoogs

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In regards to the mental health aspect of Biles’ Olympic performance, I think a lot of people are drawing connecting lines that they probably shouldn’t.  I figured it was common knowledge by now, but she has been dealing with a condition that gymnasts refer to as the twisities.  This is a severing of the mind-body connection that is in some ways similar to the yips in other sports. 

https://www.livescience.com/simone-biles-what-are-twisties.html

If you know anything about the yips, you know that they are not something you can just “walk off” or “gut” through.  It takes time to work through them and the work involves going back to the basics.  Some of you ridiculed Biles bronze on the beam while failing to realize that she was performing a stripped-down version of her routine.  In fact, she utilized a dismount that she had not used since she was 12.  And she still won the bronze!  She could not have done this without putting in the work behind the scenes since the team final to make competing even a possibility.  For those that claimed she quit on her team are way out of line.  It was the best decision both for her and the team.  The margin error is razor thin and a compromised Biles could have easily dropped the team out of medal contention.  That would be the very least of the risk.  When you try to rush back from the twisties, this is what can happen.

https://www.si.com/olympics/2021/08/02/simone-biles-twisties-physical-risk-former-gymnasts-left-paralyzed


Like the yips, the twisties also come without warning and their precise origins are hard to trace.   I initially thought Biles was wrong to take the Olympic spot.  However, I now realize that this came on quickly.  It wasn’t something she could have foreseen occurring.

I know some of you will look at this condition as a sign of mental weakness, which I don’t think holds up under scrutiny.  This one competition does not erase what she has already accomplished.  She has already excelled on the largest stages.  She has 4 moves names after her, which only occurs when you are the first and ONLY person to successfully land a move in a major world competition.  Is anyone going to claim that doesn’t take courage or mental toughness?  Would anyone claim Jon Lester, world series champion and cancer survivor, as being mentally week because he had a period in his career where he couldn’t throw to first base.

A lot of this hints at a larger issue we have in sports fandom.  We treat athletes like they are machines, and disposable ones at that.  More than one person on this thread has championed the accomplishments of Michael Phelps, at rightfully so.  However, I have not seen anyone mention his struggles with the mental pressures involved with being the best in the world at what he does.  In 2014 he was arrested for a DUI and subsequently struggled with suicidal thoughts.  In interviews, HE drew a direct line to the pressures he faced as a competetor.  But because his lapse didn’t happen during a competition, we applaud him.  But which is more egregious, pulling yourself out of a team competition because your competitive capabilities and physical safety have been compromised, or choosing to get behind the wheel of a vehicle while intoxicated.  To his credit, Phelps has and continued to fight his demons.  This is courageous, but that doesn’t mean that those who have succumbed were not courageous.  I am willing to bet my net worth that if you asked Phelps what pulled him off that metaphorical ledge, he would not say it was his gold medals.  I would bet anything that he leaned on the connections and support group that he has in his life. 

We as fans need to be better and try to redirect our values.  We don’t need the Ted Johnson’s of the world to get on to a football field despite dealing with concussions.  We don’t need college programs like Wisconsin making up a shoulder injury for Joel Stave so as to protect him from the un-informed stigma behind the yips.  We do not need the Jacoby Miles’ of the world to push themselves beyond what is safe because of or jacked-up value system. 

Re: Simone Biles
« Reply #174 on: August 04, 2021, 11:36:03 AM »

Offline boscel33

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Saw a story that says, she isn't ruling out competing in 2024.  I'd be shocked, but if she can and gets her head on straight, look out world....
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Re: Simone Biles
« Reply #175 on: August 04, 2021, 11:36:29 AM »

Offline BudweiserCeltic

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Is it fair to ask if somebody with concerns about her mental health and worries about crushing expectations should be marketing herself as the GOAT?  Doesn’t that just bring on further expectations?  She chose that marketing, rather than deflecting and showing humility. Is there a reason that people cannot criticize her for that?
No it's not fair. It's not remotely fair. Whether she has mental illness or not should have zero bearing on how she markets herself. Is  she supposed to admit to herself she isn't better than others simply because she has an illness? Mentally ill people should what, show humility and admit they aren't as good as other people because of PTSD or depression or bi-polar disorder or a personality disorder?

Biles is suffering from PTSD from her sexual assault. The affects of PTSD can be triggered by anything(especially extremely stressful situations and events) and can become crippling. She was overcome by this and was honest and up front about her issues. That should be commended.

This setback in no way diminishes her accomplishments, the same way other physical ailments and missed time wouldn't diminish any other superstar athlete's accomplishments and legacy.

If anything, I hold her accomplishments in even higher regard knowing she had to overcome her issues to perform.

So, you want to criticize her, it's a free country. I just think it's a really bad look and a seriously bad take. But to each their own.

If she can’t perform due to crushing expectations, she shouldn’t invite those expectations upon herself.  She’s purposefully making her own “mental illness” worse.  It’s not much different than a bi-polar person who mixes medication with alcohol. 

What are you basing a PTSD diagnosis on?  That’s nothing that she’s cited that I’m aware of.  She cited lack of mental focus, distraction, and crushing expectations.

She pretty much hadn't lost a competition in about 8 years, the expectations were warranted. You can't go solely by what she's citing and what not, she's self-diagnosing at this point and trying to make sense and rationalize some of what happened to her upon reaching the Olympics again.

You're way off on how mental health works, I'll just leave it at that.

Re: Simone Biles
« Reply #176 on: August 04, 2021, 11:55:46 AM »

Offline Roy H.

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Is it fair to ask if somebody with concerns about her mental health and worries about crushing expectations should be marketing herself as the GOAT?  Doesn’t that just bring on further expectations?  She chose that marketing, rather than deflecting and showing humility. Is there a reason that people cannot criticize her for that?
No it's not fair. It's not remotely fair. Whether she has mental illness or not should have zero bearing on how she markets herself. Is  she supposed to admit to herself she isn't better than others simply because she has an illness? Mentally ill people should what, show humility and admit they aren't as good as other people because of PTSD or depression or bi-polar disorder or a personality disorder?

Biles is suffering from PTSD from her sexual assault. The affects of PTSD can be triggered by anything(especially extremely stressful situations and events) and can become crippling. She was overcome by this and was honest and up front about her issues. That should be commended.

This setback in no way diminishes her accomplishments, the same way other physical ailments and missed time wouldn't diminish any other superstar athlete's accomplishments and legacy.

If anything, I hold her accomplishments in even higher regard knowing she had to overcome her issues to perform.

So, you want to criticize her, it's a free country. I just think it's a really bad look and a seriously bad take. But to each their own.

If she can’t perform due to crushing expectations, she shouldn’t invite those expectations upon herself.  She’s purposefully making her own “mental illness” worse.  It’s not much different than a bi-polar person who mixes medication with alcohol. 

What are you basing a PTSD diagnosis on?  That’s nothing that she’s cited that I’m aware of.  She cited lack of mental focus, distraction, and crushing expectations.

She pretty much hadn't lost a competition in about 8 years, the expectations were warranted. You can't go solely by what she's citing and what not, she's self-diagnosing at this point and trying to make sense and rationalize some of what happened to her upon reaching the Olympics again.

You're way off on how mental health works, I'll just leave it at that.

My wife is a director at a psychiatric hospital.  I’m pretty confident in my knowledge base.  People don’t just take their mental health on and off like a suit of armor.  The only mental health medication she’s on is for ADHD.  She hadn’t cited PTSD, nor is she on medication for it.  And, she took measures to create additional expectations and to call attention to herself individually , at risk to her own mental health.

She had cited excessive pressure and an inability to perform due to that pressure.  She had cited outside expectations.  But, some seem content to reject her own words to form a narrative.  Ignoring a young black woman’s words about her experience would seemingly be racist and sexist in our society.  I’ll just leave it at that.


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Re: Simone Biles
« Reply #177 on: August 04, 2021, 12:02:00 PM »

Offline jambr380

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That is a solid response CptZoogs. Thanks for providing some insight into what happened to her during competition. While I believe she should have bowed out during warm-ups in order to give her team a better chance, I can understand why she gave it a go since she qualified first out of everybody.

Simone Biles seems like a wonderful person and she is obviously a phenomenal athlete. I think it’s great that she was able to end the Olympics on a positive note. As she previously stated, she was doing these Olympics for her.

And if she comes out in 2024 - wow. That could change the dynamics completely on the GOAT argument. Obviously she is still supremely talented; she just wasn’t up for it in these games.

Re: Simone Biles
« Reply #178 on: August 04, 2021, 12:08:00 PM »

Offline GreenEnvy

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Didn't read the whole topic.

But MJ in his prime took a huge break too.

After a 3-peat in which his father was murdered? He “retired” in the offseason, not after Game 1 of the Finals after shooting poorly.

Talk about the mental aspect, fine. But the comparisons to other greats to not apply. What she did was unprecedented.

The fact they have a name for it - “twisties” - suggests it is far less mental illness than we originally thought. I’m a fan of hers, but I think her inability to perform should absolutely be held against her in her status as GOAT. We take physical injuries into account when grading other athletes, but not the mental aspect? How many times do we discuss clutchness? We give higher praise to athletes that deliver during highly stressful situations. We should also be allowed to hold it against those that can’t.
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