Honest question - and I am trying to take in everybody's opinion - if Biles lands her first vault, do you think she quits?
On a side note, Larisa Latynina is obviously the goat. As a Cs fan, if you believe Russell is the best ever, then it would be hypocritical to say that Latynina isn't.
It is not at all obvious. These olympians don't just come out of storage every 4 years. They compete on a world stage year after year, whether you pay attention or not. To label someone best ever based only on olympic results is like claiming Eli Manning is better than Aaron Rogers because of their superbowl records. It's asinine. Good luck finding anyone in the gymnastics community outside of Russia that would argue against Bile's case.
Latynina didn't only compete in the Olympics though. She also has 9 gold medals at the World Championships to go along with her 9 gold medals in the Olympics. She has 4 more silver and 1 bronze in the World championships to go along with her 5 silver and 4 bronze in the Olympics. She has 7, 6, and 1 in the European championships as well. And when Larisa competed the World Championships and European Championships were every 4 years, just like the Olympics. Simone had the benefit of having them every non-Olympic year (so 3 times as many).
There is no question at all Larisa Latynina is the greatest female gymnast of all time. It isn't close.
Also, as an aside, Larisa competed at the 1958 World Championships while she was pregnant. Her daughter was born 5 months after the competition. At those World Championships, she led the Soviet team to the Gold Medal, won the All Around Gold, won the gold medal on 3 apparatus (Vault, Uneven Bars, Balance Beam), and took silver on the floor exercise. She was 3-4 months pregnant and dominated the world competition. She told no one she was pregnant so they wouldn't stop her from competing.
Do your homework. Biles has 19 world championship golds, 25 total. This on top of her 5 Olympic golds. If we are going by medal counts, Biles has everyone beat by a country mile. We haven’t even touched on the fact that she has been able to perform physical feats that no other human has. Again, ask anyone involved with gymnastics where she stands all time and get back to us.
Did you read Mo’s post? You don’t think it’s relevant that Biles has 3x more opportunities at World Championships?
LL won 25 golds in major world events and 46 medals overall.
She’s the GOAT. Resumes matter.
And Biles is the most individually skilled.
It’s as relevant as the fact that LL was competing at a time where a gymnast could even be competetive at age 34. Sport is way more physically demanding now. If someone tried to compete 5 months pregnant in this age and there would be a miscarriage. Just think, if Simone was born a year earlier, she could have easily brought home multiple Olympic medals in London. She also lost a year to COVID. Are we even having this conversation if the games occurred last year?
Also, it’s funny that you hold the frequency of world championships against Biles, yet you include the European championships for LL.
Even with the European championships included, LL competed in 1/3 fewer events.
What are you talking about? Biles has competed in 33 Olympic/world championship events total. Your telling me LL earned 46 medals in 22 events?
Larisa won 18 Olympic Medals in 3 Olympic games (56, 60, 64) - she competed in 19 total events, so she medaled in 18 of 19 winning gold in 9, that is just amazing
Larisa won 14 World Championship Medals in 4 World Championships (54, 58, 62, 66) and in 54 and 66 she only won the Team medals (gold in 54 and silver in 66) so she won 12 medals between just 2, the 58 and 62 World Championships (8 gold, 3 silver, 1 bronze)
Larisa won 14 European Championship Medals in 3 European Championships (57, 61, 65)
From 1956 through 1962 she won the gold medal in the all around at every major competition she entered. In 64 and 65 she took the silver in the All Around and was still winning gold on some individual apparatus. Had World Championships existed in 55, 57, 59, 61, and 63, she would have probably picked up around 20 more gold medals and probably also around 10 more silver/bronze medals (see the 6 she won at each of 58 and 62 WC, also 6 at all 3 Olympics in 56, 60, 64).
Larisa is BY FAR the best gymnast of all time. The overall breadth of her accomplishments are unmatched.
You keep going back to LLs resume but have shown little indication that you have reviewed Biles’ career. Biles has competed in 1+ Olympic Games to LLs 3 and 5 world championships to LLs 4. You also include the European championships for LL and completely ignore the Pacific championships and National championships for Biles. If you are go8ng to compare the two, you should stick to world competitions where both would have been eligible. On top of that, LL competed at a time that allowed for longevity.
But by all means, keep speaking authoritatively about stuff you don’t show evidence to know much about.
There are 3 TIMES as many WC's today as there were back then.
So what. Biles started her career in 13. They did not hold the championships in 16. She didn’t compete in 17. No competitions in 20. Plus, it remains to be determined if she is finished. I hold nothing against LLs career, but to say she is the out and out best is just not true. You bring up the frequency of world competitions and completely ignore the fact that LL competed in an era where you could have a longer career. If anything, the argument you try to make works more in Biles favor. LL had more opportunities to compete in here career than Biles has at this point. Time will tell is she comes back, but she really doesn’t have anything to prove, especially not to internet know-it-all’s.
There's nothing that limits Biles' career length, nor was there for LL. Sure, younger athletes generally come along and take the crown, but that's true in every sport in every era. Look at Phelps, who maintained his dominance in a young person's sport. Look at Lebron and Kareem. Part of greatness is longevity and holding off the people behind you, even when they're at their physical peak and you're not.
Only two women in history have won the all-around title twice. Nobody except LL has won medals in the all-around in three straight Olympics (two consecutive golds, then a silver). There have been many, many great gymnasts over the years. What LL did is unprecedented. She did things that nobody has ever done in gymnastics, and she did things that only one Olympic athlete in history (Phelps) has done.
This is starting to get stupid. Do you have the same expectation for QB longevity and RB longevity in football?
Those are different positions. Do Biles and Latynina play different positions?
Herein lies what you are failing to grasp. Gymnastics in 2021 is a different sport than gymnastics in the 50s and 60s. Watch the tapes. To try and claim they aren’t is like making the argument that QBs and RBs play the same sport.
And basketball in the 50's is different than today. So is football. So is baseball. So is every sport. But that doesn't mean people don't call Babe Ruth the greatest baseball player ever despite him retiring in 1935 and probably not being good enough to even make the MLB today if he was transported here.
The simple reality is Latynina was more dominant than Biles has been. She won more medals in a single event. She had more dominant Olympic performances. She went back to back in the Olympics. She has the 2nd most Olympic medals ever (only Phelps has more passing her in 2012). The notion that she isn't the greatest female gymnast (or probably just gymnast) ever isn't crazy. She not only had the longevity, but she had the dominance as well. There is no question Biles is a better athlete than Latynina. Heck the person that finished dead last in the Olympics is probably a better athlete than Latynina, but that has no actual relevance to who is the greatest gymnast (modern medicine, nutrition, training methods, etc. just make every generation better athletes than the prior one). Latynina is the greatest gymnast ever. It isn't close.
I don't think I know anyone under the age of 50 that would try to make the claim that Babe Ruth is the best baseball player of all time.
I do think that people tend to favor their childhood athletes vs. contemporary players. I grew up with MJ vs Lebron, so I favor MJ. That being said, a lot of young people favor Lebron as the greatest.
You can always have an argument if you're using different standards of comparison. I tend to think that science and human progress (using evidence) trump memories.
These sports have evolved to become different products. Sure, you can try to fit a square peg into a round hole, but the end result will be a goofy analysis of comparing athletes with different skill sets doing different moves.
I'm under 50 and think Ruth is the greatest player ever. I have Bonds at 2, though do think Bonds was the better overall hitter but give the edge to Ruth for his pitching prowess.
I think Lebron is the best basketbalk player ever. He has the years of sustained dominance that Jordan does not.
Numbers matter. Longevity matters. Dominace vs. peers matter.
It is all up for debate of course, I just think Biles greatness has been greatly exaggerated because she is new, is uber athletic, and has more opportunity for WC medals because they have them every year. She doesn't have the biggest win or the highest score in the all around though. Since they changed the scoring format in the 2008 Olympics, Nastia Liukin has the highest score in the Olympics at 63.325. Biles in qualifying in 2016 had 62.366 (62.198 in finals).
